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Canadian Telecoms Will Try to Justify Their 'Ripoff' TV Plans Today (vice.com)

Posted by msmash on from the skinny-packages dept.

Starting today, Canada's top telecom companies will have to answer to the government for "skinny" TV packages -- more popularly known as "ripoff" by Canadians. Motherboard reports: In 2015, the Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission (CRTC) ruled that companies must offer a $25 "skinny" cable package, partly to benefit people earning a lower income. However, additional fees and installation charges added up so that the packages often cost a lot more than that -- in some cases, up to $100 per month. In response, Canadians called bullshit and complained to the CRTC en masse. Over two days of hearings beginning on Wednesday, Canada's top cable providers will have to prove that their skinny plans are in compliance with the CRTC's standards and that their packages meet the "spirit" of the skinny initiative. These hearings are part of the regulator's annual broadcasting license renewal process, meaning that if the companies aren't compliant, they could theoretically lose their license to operate in Canada.

81 of 141 comments (clear)

  1. This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by kbrannen · · Score: 1

    Well, if it wasn't so cold. :) But seriously, how do we get something like this down in the US? Can we also get this for the Internet providers too?

    1. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by ADRA · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Socialism! Or at least a stronger version of it than you're used to. The first question when I go to a doctor is 'How can I help you' not, 'Lemmie see your insurance card'.

      --
      Bye!
    2. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by ark1 · · Score: 1

      Getting a hearing and pretending to do something about it is one thing. Siding with the people and actually drafting policies without loopholes which benefit the people is another. Remove protectionist barriers in Canada to allow for better competition could be a good start.

    3. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      When I go, the doctor sheepishly tells me I can't be helped because my medical records were locked when my insurance claim was declined, and I can't continue talking to the doctor until I straighten out my past-due bill. American healthcare at its finest!

    4. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You want to move to Canada because the CRTC legislated $25 skinny basic cable packages and the telcos responded nastily by bundling a handful of local channels with some streaming radio? In Toronto or Vancouver, you probably get better channel coverage using an HD antenna... for free.

    5. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      Well the CRTC did open up the NOCs for the incumbents (Bell, Rogers, Telus, etc) so that the other ISPs use their wires for the last mile so we have a choice of ISP here. I haven't been with a telco or a cable company in over 15 years. I wouldn't say the prices are great compared to Europe but I'm paying less for my Internet access over cable than if I went directly to the cable company.

      I hope that the CRTC expands their ruling to fibre.

    6. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by dk20 · · Score: 1

      "Well, if it wasn't so cold. :) "

      Is your area under yet another "heat warning"?

      http://www.google.org/publical...

    7. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by srw · · Score: 2, Informative

      It's great when it works. When you have a surgery that is not successful, and you complain for five years, and the doc basically says "there's nothing we can do" and there's no way to get a second opinion...

      12 years later and my new doctor wants to get it dealt with... I'm back on a waiting list for the same doctor that brushed me off before.

      Some competition is not always a bad thing.

    8. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by BuckaBooBob · · Score: 2

      Whats going on with the cable companies isn't socialism... its customer protection... "basic" cable prices have sky rocketed and this is how the regulatory body is bringing them back in line...

      It would be nice to see one or two of them to lose their licence to operate over this so they will stop screwing customers over...

      25$ basic cable that has nearly 75$ in service charges? Come on now..

      --
      Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
    9. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Informative

      No idea what you're talking about, cancer treatment starts withing three weeks of diagnosis for almost everyone.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    10. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I call bullshit. Medical records don't get "locked" for non-payment, and any random doctor that you go see isn't going know if you've paid your bill in the past. Now if you're saying your current primary care physician won't see you again until you pay your bill, sure that seems reasonable, you have to keep the lights on, however just because you haven't paid a bill doesn't mean you can't go to another doctor, or the ER (not suggested). If you think that records are locked and patients can't see doctors if they don't pay their bills that's laughable. Firstly if this were true there wouldn't be so many patients in the ER every night.

      Now if you mean to say that your insurance company won't release records until you pay your bill, maybe, I have no idea, but you could always get a copy of any records from your doctor directly, you may have to pay a copying fee, but they are available.

      But I agree let's do some more dishonest doctor bashing after all the guy that's up for 30 hours straight and at the hospital at all hours just so that when you put a nail into your leg at 3 AM remodeling your kitchen you can get some emergency surgery, he's the enemy.

      I have never asked a patient or been alerted to a patient's non-payment at the time of speaking with them or treating them. But you're right we're all out to get you we just want your money, we don't care at all about you.... You know who cares, your local comcast executive why don't you trying calling them at 2 AM and see what happens. I am sure they will send a high trained technician that spent 15 years in school out at 3 in the morning to fix your cable modem so you can go back to watching YouTube and commenting on slashdot.

      I just don't understand why people think that being able to see a doctor at literally ANY time you need one, and if you actually have a problem then seeing the on-call specialist, whether that's the neurosurgeon, anesthesiologist, internal medicine, pulmonary doctor etc, should be free, but don't seem to mind paying the plumber to come out and fix a broken pipe.

      I think most of these issues are that people are upset after seeing the doctor and getting the bill because they went to the ER for a cold, or a fever, or a headache, or a and were told they are going to be fine. They are then shocked that having someone with 15 years of education telling them that is going to cost more than 10 dollars. Is there waste, unnecessary testing, bad doctors. Sure, but it's not everyone, it's not even likely who you'll get if you actually have an emergency.

      Explain to me how your GP is going to keep the lights on and see patients if no one pays their bills.

      Source: I am doctor.

    11. Re: This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The best basic cable plan is a $10 cable to connect to a cheap antenna. Full HD with no recompression or down-resolution by the cable or satellite folks. No recurring fees. No "The cable/satellite is out."

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    12. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by mhotchin · · Score: 2

      "Breaking Bad, Canada" would be a very short show.

      http://imgur.com/MKybStQ

    13. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      My wife has had cancer twice. Actually, the first time she was treated the next week.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    14. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by kbrannen · · Score: 1

      "Well, if it wasn't so cold. :) "

      Is your area under yet another "heat warning"?

      It may be warm in Canada now, but it's all the frozen stuff in multiple months of winter that I don't like. Sure, it's in 90's (F) where I am now, but I can deal with that; I just don't like it to be below freezing.

    15. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by fluffernutter · · Score: 3, Informative

      And yes I know the scheduling. They told us that they have a three week target to meet. Of course there is always the odd exception but we have come to know a great many cancer survivors and they all have similar experiences. One of them even had a type of cancer that no doctor had seen before.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    16. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The wait times are tracked and have targets. In Ontario the goal is 14 days from referral to seeing a specialist, and 28 days from seeing a specialist to starting treatment. 80% of people get to see a specialist within 14 days, and 70% start treatment within 28 days. That's an average for all types of cancer. Some do better, some do worse (e.g. with skin cancer is a bit less than 50% of people start treatment within 28 days). These numbers are published every month, and you can even get a breakdown by hospital. https://www.cancercare.on.ca/cms/One.aspx?portalId=1377&pageId=8888#stwtcurmon

      Saying "within three weeks of diagnosis for almost everyone" is a bit of an exaggeration -- that's closer to an average wait time.

      Times for surgery tend to be a bit longer ~50 days.

    17. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      We talk to a lot of nurses, not to mention a lot of survivors who wanted to wish my wife well. I should also say that we have been treated fabulously through the entire experience. The Canadian health care system has its warts, but ultimately everyone is cared for. I think that is a most noble cause to take care of any citizen as well as you can no matter who they are. There are sacrifices, but they are managed and spread thin over the entire population.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    18. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by zennyboy · · Score: 1

      Same in most (all?) of Europe, mind you...

    19. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 1

      The first question when I go to a doctor is 'How can I help you' not, 'Lemmie see your insurance card'.

      It's the secretary who asks you for the medicare card. And, believe me, you won't go past her if you don't have it...

    20. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Festering+Leper · · Score: 2

      There's no such thing as unlimited media streaming, and prices are usually $30/gigabyte at best for prepaid.
      See for yourself. Here are comanies that offer full nation-wide coverage (not just small urban areas). Make sure you check the prices for additional data.

      Telus, Bell, Rogers, Virgin, Koodo.

      --
      if you want people to think you know what you are talking about, just put ".com" at the end of everything you say.com
    21. Re: This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Festering+Leper · · Score: 1

      It's not even 30/10 here. It's 30/5 and it's $62

      http://www.vmedia.ca/en/intern...

      --
      if you want people to think you know what you are talking about, just put ".com" at the end of everything you say.com
    22. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, "how can I help you" is followed by, "come back in a week" so the doctor can bill a second visit to the province.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    23. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Socialism! Or at least a stronger version of it than you're used to. The first question when I go to a doctor is 'How can I help you' not, 'Lemmie see your insurance card'.

      Apparently you don't live in Canada. Let me show you want happens when you go to a doctor, you hand them your insurance card. It looks like this: If you're from Ontario. No you don't get free treatment if you don't show up without one. The first thing they ask you for is...did you guess "your insurance card?" No? You poor deluded soul. You're billed directly if you don't have one, if you've been to a healthcare provider in your area(doctor/hospital) in the last 30-45 days they'll waive billing for 90days until you produce the card or send you a bill from your provincial health service(Ontario it's called OHIP).

      No not everything is covered(unless you're on disability), you're paying out of pocket for all medical expenses like drugs, vision, hearing, feet, dental. Most people carry supplemental insurance on top of their provincial plan, I use there are other companies though.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    24. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Your meme is garbage. Let me tell you what would happen.

      You've got cancer, you have an appointment with a specialist in 5-7 weeks. Providing of course it's not stage 4 cancer, you're free to choose a variety of treatments at your specialists discretion. Now, if it *is* stage 4, you're easily looking at 5weeks to 15 weeks before seeing a specialist, then up wards of another 15 weeks before they start the targeted radiation therapy to reduce the cancer size so it's not so big and you can have a few months of extra life.

      Oh, you're also likely going to be driving 1-4 hours for that treatment if there are no half-way houses available for you to stay at. In worst cases, for some types of cancer you many need to drive 12 hours at your expense and find a place to stay for the duration of the treatment as well. Oh and when you reach the "end of life" care required for that, you're going to spend upwards of a year with your family unless they were smart and put you down for hospice-end-of-life care at one of the specialist centers operated by the VON.

      For the personal story bit, my grandmother ended up with stage 4 lung cancer. She had her first doctor examination in august and started treatment in September. Everyone was surprised, doctors, nurses, radiologists, technicians. Because they know that doesn't happen very often, and when it does happen it's because someone *in* the system has bumped you up the queue. In her case that's likely what happened since at one time she had been a head nurse at a hospital. If you really want to see how long it would take for say in Ontario you can search here. Keep in mind that there's usually 3 numbers. One is the provincial target average(breast cancer is around 90 days), then the province-wide average(say 45 days), then the local hospitals average wait times(between the two, or lower).

      And even if you could get treatment faster at another hospital? The provincial government can refuse to pay for it because it's in an area you don't live.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    25. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      The only reason why that happened was because the government of the day(conservatives) threatened to rip the CRTC's mandate away on their ability to open up areas like that, and they were going to create a new parliamentary body to specifically deal with it. That was also at the same time that the CRTC was going humm-hawww-lllaaaaa... and listening to what Bell and Rogers were telling them, and were going to jack up the GAS and last mile rates so high that you'd have been paying twice the cost of what those big names were charging for their basic service. So vmedia/teksavvy $49/mo would go to $98mo for say 20/1, but Bell and Rogers could charge $39/mo for $20/1.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    26. Re: This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      It's called the FCC.

      --
      C|N>K
    27. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Kinwolf · · Score: 1

      Cancer treatments in Canada are old though. No immunotherapy or such, still the old rays bombardments and old chemo therapies. And new meds that target the damaged cells more accurately and that are already approved in europe and USA are not approved here only because of the cost. And even if treatments start within 3 weeks of diagnosis, what you forgot to mention, and what any Canadian knows all too well, is that it can take as much as 2 years, waiting on a list, before you can see the specialist that will give the final diagnosis and green light any treatment, when it's not too late at that time.

    28. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      Well I have yet to hear of anyone waiting 2 years for treatment. I've researched 'new meds not available in canada' before, and usually it's not just because of the cost.. it is because the cost is not worth the extra success rate that they yield. I'll look into it.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    29. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      "So universal insurance is as bad as no insurance, right? Not so fast. For one thing, survival rates in Canada, Japan, Australia and Cuba were all comparable to or higher than U.S. survival rates on all types of cancer that the Lancet study examined, except for prostate cancer."

      http://www.factcheck.org/2009/...

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    30. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by dk20 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately there is a lot of truth to this.

      Recently i tried to find a family Dr. After being "interviewed" for 10 mins, and flat out told that NO, i may not ask questions.. at the end i was told to book an appointment "next week" to ask the question i had originally went there for. i was also informed that i may ask only one question per appointment. This is a great use of my time.. waited for 25 mins, did a "meet and great" for 10 mins, and told to book two more appointments so i can wait another 25 mins each for a 5 minute discussion??

      SWIPE that OHIP card baby.

      where else do you effectively "pay first" and get service later? the first thing you do when you go to a medial office in Ontario is wipe the card. then wait in the primary waiting room, move to the secondary waiting room to wait some more.. then they dr enters the secondary waiting room and gives you your 15 seconds.

    31. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Well, one of the first things the receptionist is supposed to ask is 'Health card, please.' What they generally actually ask, around here, at least, is 'any change from the card we have on file?'

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    32. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

      Virgin is using Bell network so not a true carrier provider.

      It is cheaper to buy an unlock phone and go in the US to take a tmobile plan, then use it in Canada.

      --
      "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
    33. Re: This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      You don't think OTA ever goes out or has reception issues?

    34. Re: This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by kellymcdonald78 · · Score: 1

      3 weeks? An oncologist friend of mine in Canada has taken in patients within 3 days of diagnosis depending on the nature and severity of the cancers. He did try briefly to practice in the US and was discusted with what he saw. The cancer center he was looking at in Boston had its own MRI machine that was used a quarter of the time, while the hospital attached to it had 2 more MRIs that were used a third of the time. When he asked why not just use 1 MRI for everyone and save several million dollars, they looked at him as if he were crazy. They also wanted him to supervise every MRI scan as a "Doctor supervised" MRI scan is charged to insurance at a much higher rate than a regular one, a it looked good to the patient. A total waste of his time as he was neither a radiologist it MRI technician

    35. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      My dad was receiving treatment in under 2 weeks from his first ER trip. He's fine now. I have no doubt that in the US my father would be dead and my mother struggling with a mountain of debt. So... YMMV?

    36. Re: This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      It goes out if the station goes off the air or if I lose power. Otherwise, it's pretty robust. Fewer links in the chain that can break compared to streaming.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    37. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      Then that should have answered your questions, no? My doctor's great. Sure, he's always in a bit of a rush, but he'll answer as many questions as I have. Isn't the point of interviewing doctors to find one that will work for you?

    38. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      Do we live in the same Canada? I show up to my doctor's office. I say "I'm here to see Dr. xxx". I wait. I then go in to see my doctor. Yeah, you've gotta show your various cards any time you go to see somebody new, but I always assumed that was so that I wouldn't get breast implants when I just wanted them to check out my cough. I do get coverage for meds through my work though. That stuff's still crazy with no insurance.

    39. Re: This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Correct, patients are triaged depending on the severity and aggression of the cancer. Three weeks is just the standard guideline. As I said, the first cancer we were scheduled for surgery definitely the week after it may only have been a couple days. I don't want to knock the US health care system I really don't, but I know a family who were on vacation down there and one of their kids had to be seen for a distended stomach. They spent an entire day getting shuffled between three facilities for purely political reasons for something that just required a laxative in the end. There was a bill from each facility they went to and it amounted to a few thousand dollars, which was payed for fortunately. Stuff like that just seems bizarre to us.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    40. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by rikkards · · Score: 1

      Your doctor;s office is supposed to swipe your OHIP (assuming you are in Ontario) every single time you show up.

    41. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Well, if it wasn't so cold. :) But seriously, how do we get something like this down in the US? Can we also get this for the Internet providers too?

      Forget it. The CRTC is late to the party.

      I mean, in Canada, you are forced to buy the cable boxes they sell - and while one Canadian provider supports say, TiVo, the other's don't, and no, you CANNOT activate a non-provider provided box - the providers don't allow it. Even though they're the same boxes you can buy in the US. So if you want TiVo, or Ceton, or HDHomeRun, or whatever else, guess what? You're SOL You're stuck with the crap that the providers sell, which is pretty... crap.

      This applies to internet as well - you use their modem only - even though it's got a crap router and you cannot disable it, you're stuck with what they have. (If you're lucky, they may bridge the modem so you can use your own router. So fat chance doing any gaming on higher speed plans as they use the Hitron POS that adds random 10-100ms jitter to your packets, even in bridge mode. You can't go out and buy your own modem, they won't activate it.

      Honestly, you're FAR better off in the US. You even have alternative TV services (SlingTV, Playstation Vue, etc).

    42. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Macdude · · Score: 1

      A friend of mine had colon cancer, clinic visit in morning, straight to hospital for CT scan, and in the operating room that evening. Three (I think) operations and other treatments later and he's now cancer free. Total out of pocket expenses, $0.00.

      --
      "Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
    43. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      >You just have to live in a state that signed up for it

      And be poor enough to qualify. Which is pretty damn poor (generally 138% of the Federal Poverty Level, which currently translates to an annual household income of $16,243, or one person working full time at $7.80 per hour.)

      What would be a nice compromise is if *anyone* could buy into Medicaid at whatever their average cost-per-person is, the so-called public option that was dropped from ACA. That would help keep the private insurance companies honest. If they can actually deliver comparable coverage at a lower cost (or better coverage at a comparable cost) then they have nothing to worry about. If they can't... well then that pretty much completely undermines the argument that socialized medicine is too inefficient to justify, doesn't it?

      While we're at it how about we also allow Medicaid and Medicare to negotiate drug and service prices like other insurance companies do. Why should we be throwing away tax dollars to pay the grossly overinflated list prices of the medical industry when no other insurers do? Heck, if we're afraid their size would give them too much negotiating power, how about just requiring that they automatically receive the average (by volume) price the medical companies have given to private insurers?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    44. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Well, that's the trade off isn't it? Some things are natural monopolies due to infrastructure costs - you don't want a dozen different companies all putting up their own utility poles or digging their own trenches, even if they could somehow do so profitably(which they probably couldn't). So instead you have three choices:

      1) Leave them unregulated and let one company abuse the client-base as badly as they can without making it profitable for a competitor to step in - with the understanding that the monopolist has already paid off their infrastructure investments and would almost certainly be willing to temporarily drop prices to well below maintenance cost to drive the competitor out of business, so the cost will likely be many times what the imaginary "free market" would suggest

      2) Force them to abide by regulations aimed at mitigating negligence and price gouging, usually with the concession that the government will themselves prohibit competition.

      3) Or replace them with a publicly-owned organization, which often have their own problems.

      Personally I'd like to see the monopoly be far more restricted to only the construction and maintenance of physical infrastructure. There's only one company that provides a physical cable connection, but they're prohibited from selling any content whatsoever - instead they have to sell nondiscriminatory infrastructure access to anyone willing to pay for it. Comcast wants to offer cable TV in town? They have to access to channels at whatever the market rate is. And anyone else can do the same thing. Comcast buys channels 1-200, TWC buys channels 200-300, and channel 1024 is currently rented by Frank The Geek for his 24-hour all-computer channel.

      Same thing for other utilities - you buy power from whoever you want, and they rent access to you from the power line company. Or alternately, you buy power from the line company, who are prohibited from generating power themselves and must buy it at market rates from anyone willing to deliver it according to spec.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    45. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Socialism! Or at least a stronger version of it than you're used to. The first question when I go to a doctor is 'How can I help you' not, 'Lemmie see your insurance card'.

      Not socialism when you have only 1 national provider and 10 large provincial providers. Your choice is only A or B

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    46. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      I do not, but Mashiki said Canada.

    47. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Sounds pretty much exactly like the typical doctor's appointment in the US. I think that aspect of medical abuse has less to do with socialism or capitalism than with perverse incentives of the billing structure. If doctors (or hospitals) get paid by the visit, they're going to act to maximize visits, regardless of who is paying. Making patients pay out of pocket might mitigate things a bit, but only a bit, as they're already paying "out of pocket" in terms of copays and lost income/opportunities while sitting in the waiting room.

      I've heard that there was a system in ancient China where you paid your doctor while you were healthy, and then stopped while you were sick - thus aligning the doctor's and patient's priorities and promoting proactive health maintenance. In some ways it's not so very different than modern health insurance, except that by cutting out the middle man it's your doctor making free money while you're healthy, and you stop paying while sickness is impairing your earning potential.

      Of course that seems like it would be heavily dependent on community forces to work well, which have degraded badly as society has grown. Seems like it could be a good model to draw inspiration from though.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    48. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by dk20 · · Score: 1

      Considering my question was around why my shoulder was sore, no, it did not answer my question.

    49. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by dk20 · · Score: 1

      I found the US system to be more friendly to be honest. At least there i could see a "specialist" without having to go find a "family dr" and get them to refer me costing me time and several visits.

      Here (Ontario, Canada) it really does seem to be around maximizing the number of trips you make. That may be OK, but they waste a huge amount of your time as they book an appointment at 10:00 but wont see you until it is closer to 11:00. If you wanted to see me at 11:00, why not just book the appointment then? Because they double/triple book to make sure they are paid (you swipe your card upon arrival, not upon service being delivered and if you leave because the wait was too long they are still paid). On the few times i went to a US dr, i dont recall the waiting being nearly as bad.

    50. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      I was referring to the question of "Do I want this doctor", which should be the main thrust of an interview campaign.

    51. Re: This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      That's nice. I am glad it works for you, for a sample of how it would work in the US, take a look at any recent story about medicare/medicaid or the VA health system, as those are examples of socialized medicine in the US.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    52. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      It certainly does sound like there's some playing to perverse incentives that needs to be addressed, but still a huge step up from having a large portion of the population be denied medical care entirely because they can't afford it. The ACA(Obamacare) in the US helped dramatically, but there's still large gaps where people have too much income to qualify for government insurance or insurance assistance, but too little to be able to afford private insurance worth the name. I've heard the $15k-$25k income range is particularly bad in that regard - which to put in context is roughly centered on the 20th percentile of income at ~$21k (USD).

      Yes, we're also a fair bit more impoverished than Canada, whose 20th percentile is at about $31kUSD / $40kCAD

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    53. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by OzoneLad · · Score: 1

      Sometimes, a referral back to the original doctor (AKA: There's something there, do your damn job) can help.

    54. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by srw · · Score: 1

      I'd like to be hopeful, but they categorized me as "non-urgent" and put me on the waiting list.

    55. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by gordguide · · Score: 1

      There is no such thing as a Cellular Telecom in Canada that offers "just small urban areas". They all, in fact, offer Nationwide coverage.

      For example SaskTel, which operates only in the rather small (population-wise) province of Saskatchewan, has towers that cover 94% of the populated area of the province. Now, how many towers does "nation-wide" carrier Bell have in Saskatchewan? How many does "nation-wide" Telus? Answer: Zero.

      While roaming in Saskatchewan, Telus and Bell customers use SaskTel towers. While roaming in Ontario, SaskTel customers use Bell towers (probably) or Telus towers (maybe, they don't have full province-wide coverage). So a "small urban area" carrier offers seamless nation-wide coverage. And SaskTel offers nation-wide text, data (including a true unlimited data plan, with reduced speed after 10GB per month but no data limit), and calling, at no additional charge, if you buy the premium plans.

      The national carriers have trouble competing with SaskTel ... if you are a Telus or Bell customer in that province only, you get more data at the same rate as in the other nine provinces.

      Rogers has it's own towers nation-wide, and until recently the systems were incompatible with the Bell / Telus / ManitobaTel / SaskTel / ... the list goes on ... system, but now they also share towers with the other carriers, seamlessly.

      So there is no such thing as a non-nation-wide carrier in Canada. Period.

    56. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by davester666 · · Score: 1

      I can tell you want the doctor will say:

      Don't do anything with that arm/shoulder for a week, come back and then we'll see how it is. Oh, you have to use both arms for your work. Can you take the week off?

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    57. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by MercTech · · Score: 1

      Computerized medical records DO get locked out from access along with all other records in the system when flagged by accounting as past due. At least that is the default with two of the largest billing and records systems.

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
    58. Re:This almost makes me want to move to Canada... by MercTech · · Score: 1

      Most people in the U.S. NO LONGER have medical insurance through their employer. The ACA made insurance policies too expensive for any employers but the largest corporate giants.
              The personal cost for a mediocre policy subsidized by an employer is now as high as purchasing an individual policy was before the ACA. Out of pocket cost went from $470 a month to $1450 a month for a $1500.00 deductible with 20% co-pay thereafter with implementation of the ACA. If you want health insurance that is less than $500 a month you get a $6000 deductible with 40% co-pay thereafter and you are limited to an "approved" list of doctors in your local area and have no converge outside of your local area.

              You may get subsidized by the government or an employer but the payment to the insurance company is still at the ridiculous level.

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
  2. There are low income Canadians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    But how? Canada is a socialist utopia?

    1. Re:There are low income Canadians? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      But how? Canada is a socialist utopia?

      High and low are relative terms, knucklehead. "Low income" in Canada is about a 25% higher actual income than "low income" in the US.

      http://www.demos.org/blog/1/5/...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:There are low income Canadians? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Are you retarded? Unless they're getting creative with their shopping they're spending Canadian money in Canada. The exchange rate is irrelevant.

    3. Re:There are low income Canadians? by Shados · · Score: 1

      its much harder to end up in the street with no way to bounce back, or be born completely fucked from the get go.

      But its possible to be at an income level low enough that a tiny home, food, and health care is all you have. Homeless people in Canada generally either really fucked up, or god REALLY unlucky, not just a little.

      Not like in the US where if you fuck up (not just heroin addict kind of fuck up), you have very little safety net (beyond a couple of super expensive social safety net placebos that only work for people that abuse the system)

    4. Re:There are low income Canadians? by MercTech · · Score: 1

      Having worked in Canada on a Visa; I have a good feeling for the differences between the U.S. and Canada. Canadian taxes take a larger bite out of the paycheck but, if you are a Canadian citizen, you actually get some value for the taxes. The U.S. federal government tends to squander way too much on pork barrel projects and let the infrastructure decay.

              If you are not a citizen; it is extremely hard to get medical care in Canada anywhere but in an emergency room. At least in Ontario that is the case once your are more than 100km from a major border crossing. "Our quota is full with Ontario Health patients" is what you hear. If you are a foreign worker in Canada; your employer is required to carry health insurance on you. But, getting anything but emergency medical services is a study in frustration.

      --
      NRRPT/RCT
  3. I've got the best deal! by ADRA · · Score: 4, Interesting

    $0

    Cord cut years ago and it's so much better to live in a world where commercials are a novel occurrence (like watching TV in bars/family homes).
    I spend much of the difference on media (Bluray, yes I still buy dead-dinosaur-discs) and streaming services.

    --
    Bye!
  4. Theoretically by knorthern+knight · · Score: 5, Insightful

    > These hearings are part of the regulator's annual broadcasting license
    > renewal process, meaning that if the companies aren't compliant,
    > they could theoretically lose their license to operate in Canada.

    Just like Hillary Clinton could "theoretically" go to jail for running her own email server for government business. Don't worry about the fat cats. They just need to shoot a round of golf with the CRTC commissioners, and nothing will happen.

    --

    I'm not repeating myself
    I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
  5. Well... by johnsmithperson123 · · Score: 2

    At least ban ads for the poor sods with cable. You don't pay for something with ads in.

    1. Re:Well... by sjames · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to the corporate world, you're not paying enough if you still have money and/or all of your internal organs.

    2. Re:Well... by speedlaw · · Score: 1

      Cord cut a few years ago. OTA/recorders and streaming with an older Mac mini, office hand me down. Stayed in a hotel with cable recently. Unwatchable due to insane commercial density. How does anyone watch TV nowadays without a DVR ?

    3. Re:Well... by tbannist · · Score: 1

      According to the corporate world, you're not paying enough if you still have money and/or all of your internal organs.

      Still too long, try:

      According to the corporate world, you're not paying enough

      Because I'm sure that even if you don't have any money or internal organs left, they'd find a way to make you pay more...

      --
      Fanatically anti-fanatical
  6. The tl;dr by diamondmagic · · Score: 1

    Canadian Government imposes a price ceiling on a market, then proceeds to run around like a chicken with its head cut off wondering why the markets managed to react the way they did.

    Price ceilings and price floors have predictable consequences, and for some reason we keep ignoring them.

    It's also a great way to reduce competition, a direct result of left-shifting the supply curve of the supply/demand plot.

    --
    Wonder what the public key field is for?
    1. Re:The tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually what happened is every vendor on the planet turned around and bared their collective asses at every BDU and tried to extort them, AMC is asking X dollars a subscriber (whether they subscribe to AMC or not) [I'm not gonna disclose the amount], but it's more than the price of the damn channel a'la carte and they are playing chicken like I imagine they did with Dish years back. And that is just one; imagine 100 hungry jackals who both want to be in the under 25 channel range and want to be paid for subscribers that don't subscribe to them. It's not a price ceiling that's causing grief it's the same thing that has been screwing TV customers for the past oh 20 years, "Bundling" shit content with stuff people want and hubris of course because without "The Walking Dead" AMC is reruns of Madmen and Breaking Bad.

      Most people only want one or two things from TV and none of them (save for sports) are specialty channels, but BDUs are forced to bundle that shit and crap rolls downhill. Profits are meager on BDU once you take in delivery and so on, so it only pays to be a BDU who produces content, and does it help that you have a captive regulator? Yes it does, so MEdia Companies are BDUs and they don't have to pay squat for content the rest of the world does and THOSE assholes make the bundles and force shitty prices down on the end consumer. So the skinny basic packages are, in a word, skinny, and consist of things that you could get over the air (mostly) and people complain.

      But in the end, the Media Consolidation of the past 30 years is to blame because the same company that makes the shows, owns the distribution (with few exceptions) and Hulu and Amazon and so on make them scared, so they legislate them too.

      Captive Regulators and Media Consolidation, fucking the consumer since 1981 "I wanted MTV so I bought it and stopped showing Videos" ---Viacom

    2. Re: The tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bullshit, what you say would be true if they had only offered skinny packages containing shitty unwanted channels, but charged the correct price. Instead they tacked on a bunch of fees for the sole purpose of making free money. They already have an infrastructure built, they have minimal upkeep costs, and very little operating costs. There's no excuse for how they handled the situation. The correct response to the market pressures was to reduce or change the channels in the packages until it was cost effective.

      Set Ayn Rand back on the bookshelf.

    3. Re:The tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How about letting monopolies charge whatever they want. The market will sort it out, right? Has that ever worked? Ever?

      The monopoly telecoms in Canada were, and still are, given a great deal in concessions and also protection from foreign competition. The government (aka the people) has every right to impose rules and restrictions on their operations.

  7. Re:Why? by losfromla · · Score: 1

    And which cable company is it that you work for? You work someplace with office cuties!? Those are banned at my workplace.

    --
    Only I can judge you.
  8. Fix this before Trump wins by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    All the poor American's who will rush to Canada after Trump wins will need to be able to afford TV to watch the Daily Show.

  9. A much better approach by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 1

    If the CRTC didn't see that their "flexible" rules weren't going to be abused to the limit they are either idiots or complicit. To show their metal they should now say the skinny package should provide good value and be no more than $20 per month everything included including local taxes. With a total charge not to exceed $240 in the first year. Plus no contractual lock in.

    Then when the telcos catch their breath the CRTC could then tell them that this will be reviewed every 6 months and if the general consumer sentiment is negative then the offending telcos will be broken up.

    1. Re:A much better approach by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      To show their metal

      "Mettle". Or were you suggesting that they were miners?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  10. Prepare for Variations of This by Karl+Cocknozzle · · Score: 1

    "But we reeeeeeeaaaaaaallllllly like money, and it's so much sweeter when we've hornswoggled it from people who can barely afford it."

    --
    Who did what now?
  11. Bullshit! by Kinwolf · · Score: 1

    The resume is totally inaccurate. As Canadians, we are incapable of calling "bullshit", that's way too impolite. What we said when we saw the packages was "Oh!" Yeah, I know, pretty strong word, eh. Shook the telecoms to their core.

  12. Re:Why? by avandesande · · Score: 1

    With the exception of GOT, I haven't heard anyone at work or socially with friends talk about TV shows in a decade.

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism