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Wells Fargo Fires 5,300 Employees For Creating Millions of Phony Accounts (cnn.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNNMoney: Everyone hates paying bank fees. But imagine paying fees on a ghost account you didn't even sign up for. That's exactly what happened to Wells Fargo customers nationwide. On Thursday, federal regulators said Wells Fargo employees secretly created millions of unauthorized bank and credit card accounts -- without their customers knowing it -- since 2011. The phony accounts earned the bank unwarranted fees and allowed Wells Fargo employees to boost their sales figures and make more money. Wells Fargo confirmed to CNNMoney that it had fired 5,300 employees related to the shady behavior over the last few years. Employees went so far as to create phony PIN numbers and fake email addresses to enroll customers in online banking services, the CFPB said. The scope of the scandal is shocking. An analysis conducted by a consulting firm hired by Wells Fargo concluded that bank employees opened up over 1.5 million deposit accounts that may not have been authorized, according to the CFPB. Wells Fargo is being slapped with the largest penalty since the CFPB was founded in 2011. The bank agreed to pay $185 million in fines, along with $5 million to refund customers. The report says that "employees moved funds from customers' existing accounts into newly-created accounts without theier knowledge or consent," which resulted in "customers being charged for insufficient funds or overdraft fees," since their original accounts didn't contain the money. What's more is that "Wells Fargo employees also submitted applications for 565,443 credit card accounts without their knowledge or consent," causing customers who had unauthorized credit cards opened in their names to be "hit by annual fees, interest charges and other fees."

56 of 341 comments (clear)

  1. Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    That's what they get for putting unrealistic quotas on the employees.

    1. Re:Typical by ourlovecanlastforeve · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I am certain that none of those people fired were the managers who established the unrealistic quotas and instructed their staff to create the phoney accounts.

      Hiring managers is expensive. Hiring tellers is as easy as calling up Express Personnel and ordering another six-pack of desperate unemployed middle class peons.

    2. Re:Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Agreed OP. We actually had the same thing happen to us WAY back in the day when I was going to school and working for Gamestop part time.

      Story time kids:

      They would force employees to push gaming mag subscriptions onto customers and the quota was 7 per week. Now nobody wanted this crap. Customers wanted to come in to buy some games, and maybe talk shop. Subscribe to something that requires a credit card tho? OH HELL NO. Also, half of them weren't even old enough to have a card in the first place, but our DM would literally threaten the manager to fire him, who would threaten his employees to fire us if we didn't produce at least 1 subscription per day per week. So... in desperate times we as a collective of employees (who were actually much closer among retail stores than you'd think) all got together with a fiendish plan to game the system. We took pre-paid visa cards and threw 10 bucks on them and spent most of it on our lunch break. With the few pennies left on the card we'd then subscribe customers for them, giving them a subscription they couldn't be billed for and blowing our quotas out of the water. At first corporate was elated so many stores were suddenly producing a BOOM of subscriptions but like all good things it didn't last. Eventually the magazine publishers caught on, and everything started rolling downhill until literally 5 stores worth of employees and management were all fired and replaced within a month. I just barely escaped the shit-storm by hearing about the crack-down rumors and quitting ahead of time.

      Ah greed and corporate fuckwittery. Good times... sad times.

    3. Re:Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everyone participated

      They were all getting fired anyways

      He just quit first

      There were no honest employees in this situation

      Remove that high horse from your ass, or something

    4. Re:Typical by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      America doesn't have a "lower class". We have a "middle class" and a "working class". There's a lot of overlap in the pay, the distinction is mostly social, not economic. Banking teller is a middle-class job.

      This class distinction is why so few people are willing to enter the skilled trades, despite a lot of advantages to that in our increasingly-outsourced world.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:Typical by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      All the honest employees had already been fired.

      The WF thing is interesting since WF has been unusually profitable compared to other banks for several years now. It was claimed to be better managment but now you have to wonder how deep the rot is?

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    6. Re:Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I once bought something at Best Buy and they asked me which of their magazines I wanted, a sports one or and entertainment one. I said neither, and then was told they were free and he stuck an entertainment one in my bag. Best Buy then gave my credit card number to the magazine company which charged me $40 and began sending me the magazine to my house.

      I had to call the magazine and explain it was credit card fraud (cardholder not present for transaction is the correct wording to use there) and they could either refund the money or I would press charges. I guess I wasn't the only one that called and they refunded me immediately. Best Buy wasn't doing that next time I went in, but it took about 5 years before I would set foot in their stores after that.

    7. Re: Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That wasn't capitalism it was fraud. For capitalism to work you have to actually produce something of value, and that doesn't happen with fraud.

    8. Re: Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      >>Yeah sure, and the USSR wasn't communism, etc...

      Correct, it was Leninism/Stalinism, allegedly designed to evolve into communism after creating the "dictatorship of the proletariat".

      Go read a book.

    9. Re:Typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "I once bought something at Best Buy and they asked me which of their magazines I wanted, a sports one or and entertainment one. I said neither, and then was told they were free and he stuck an entertainment one in my bag."

      (OP posting) That's exactly what we did with customers at gamestop.

      Told them they could have a "free" subscription then signed them up using our visa pre-paid cards with nothing on them so the magazine publishers and Gamestop corporate would get screwed for placing the burden of such stupid quotas on us. No regrets, and regulars got free mags for a while.

    10. Re:Typical by starblazer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      which will then immediately sell it off to the same company WF did.

  2. Loose Ends Being Tied Up? by IonOtter · · Score: 2

    How much you wanna bet most of those people were involved in robo-signing, or some other form of shenanigans OTHER than creating false accounts?

    --
    [End Of Line]
  3. Re:Fine seems Tiny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Who says they didn't?

    Wells Fargo is the biggest bunch of douche tools I have ever had the displeasure of working with. Arrogant but clueless!

    I wouldn't piss on them if they were on fire!

  4. Just like police by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Bankers are just like police. If you get caught doing something illegal, the worst possible penalty you face is losing your job. And you can just hop to another city and get employed again, it's just a lateral career move, not even really a firing. No criminal consequences, no jail time, nothing.

    And people wonder why bankers and police are so hated in America.

    1. Re:Just like police by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2

      If you spin it right, your next job might even be a promotion. "Exceeded quarterly new account open quotas by 50% for eight straight quarters." I do the same thing...yesterday we had a "successful unannounced real-time server disaster recovery test scenario" and "validated the nightly backups are functional". For all the end-users, I was testing the backup procedures, upstream caching, etc. What actually happened was the Exchange server rebooted during an update and left all the services disabled and files blarged. Good thing the VSS was stable!

    2. Re:Just like police by Lust · · Score: 2

      And they profited through the experience - if they're told 'meet certain goals or lose your job' ...or... 'conduct illegal activity and you might lose your job if caught, meanwhile earn your bonus'...if anything, these people know how to maximize their expectation value.

  5. rotten at the top by supernova87a · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yeah, well, when you see this many people engaging in such widespread consumer fraud and malfeasance, it comes from the top.

    It has been documented and interviews with these employees recorded that they were under such pressure from bank managers (and they from VPs, etc) under threat of losing their jobs, that they felt they had to make their numbers in any way they had at their disposal. Including taking people's information that they'd been given for other legitimate purposes, and misusing it to create fake accounts.

    1. Volkswagen engineers being pressured to have their vehicles pass emissions
    2. Bank employees being pressured to sign up customers regardless of how infeasible
    3. Cable/credit card company call center agents being pressured not to let a customer go under any circumstances
    4. etc. etc. etc.

    The list goes on and on -- these all come from the assholes at the top demanding something that's not possible and effectively incentivizing / requiring front-line employees to lie, cheat and steal from consumers.

    Those are the people who should be even more aggressively prosecuted.

    1. Re:rotten at the top by jmv · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, and since the people at the top giving incentives to cheat almost never face consequences, the behavior will continue.

    2. Re:rotten at the top by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is indeed how the scam works.

      Create an environment in which your employees are forced to break the law to retain employment, even though such behavior runs counter to official written policy.

      When caught: Pay lawyers to deflect blame and wave about the written policy, fire employees, walk away with a slap on the wrist fine.

      We see this all the way from fast food workers to top tier finance account managers.

      If a company benefits from fraud, they are guilty of fraud. Why does basic conflict of interest go unpunished today?

    3. Re:rotten at the top by Kjella · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So... if I have a business unit that's losing money and I tell it to either turn a profit or they'll be laid off, am I responsible when the employees cheat and break the law to save their jobs because there's no other way? If you hand in your resignation, can I make you a counteroffer or is "ok" the only acceptable response? A lot of this pressure is natural, everybody's looking for ways to increase volume and price, cut costs and reduce losses. And then somebody takes it too far, but how far is too far? Who started it, who's doing it, who's in on it might not be so crystal clear.

      I mean it's a little easy to just blame it on your manager who'll blame it on their manager and so on all the way to the top until only Hitler is guilty and the rest were just following orders and trying to fulfill impossible goals. Sorry to Godwin the thread but this is a criminal conspiracy and while there's certainly leaders who should be doing hard time it should be pretty obvious to everyone that when you're faking customer accounts you're doing something blatantly illegal. I say aggressively prosecute everyone you can prove was in on it, top to bottom.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    4. Re:rotten at the top by supernova87a · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, when you're the VP or head of the company and you're told by employees that there's no way to make these targets unless you do unethical or illegal things, then if you incentivize your employees to do those things, you won't have a strong defense that you didn't know or just turned a blind eye and told them to do whatever was necessary to get the company profitable, and they were acting on their own.

    5. Re:rotten at the top by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So... if I have a business unit that's losing money and I tell it to either turn a profit or they'll be laid off, am I responsible when the employees cheat and break the law to save their jobs because there's no other way?

      If you give the employees an unreasonble goal with insufficient tools to reach it, and tell them that they will be fired if they cannot reach it - I think that makes you responsible for their actions. In fact, that sounds like the definition of coercion.

      Now lets say your business isn't losing money, and the stock price has increased steadily since the fourth quarter of 2011 (like, say, Wells Fargo.) In this case, you have misrepresented the health of your company for the purpose of eliciting bad behavior. You don't have much of a defense in claiming ignorance because you have needlessly and intently set up the environment for this to happen. I would say that is absolutely criminal.

    6. Re:rotten at the top by dj245 · · Score: 2

      Yeah, well, when you see this many people engaging in such widespread consumer fraud and malfeasance, it comes from the top. It has been documented and interviews with these employees recorded that they were under such pressure from bank managers (and they from VPs, etc) under threat of losing their jobs, that they felt they had to make their numbers in any way they had at their disposal. Including taking people's information that they'd been given for other legitimate purposes, and misusing it to create fake accounts. 1. Volkswagen engineers being pressured to have their vehicles pass emissions 2. Bank employees being pressured to sign up customers regardless of how infeasible 3. Cable/credit card company call center agents being pressured not to let a customer go under any circumstances 4. etc. etc. etc. The list goes on and on -- these all come from the assholes at the top demanding something that's not possible and effectively incentivizing / requiring front-line employees to lie, cheat and steal from consumers. Those are the people who should be even more aggressively prosecuted.

      This attitude is common across many industries. Maybe I was naive in my 20s but the idiots you went to high school with never smartened up. There is no miraculous supply of intelligent people who manage companies. The people who manage companies are usually the people who are best at overselling, overpromising, underdelivering, screwing people to make a buck, and don't think the rules apply to them.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    7. Re:rotten at the top by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think anyone here believes the employees are to be excused here, just that the managers share in the responsibility and shouldn't be excused either.

    8. Re:rotten at the top by Mass+Overkiller · · Score: 2

      I have to agree to a certain extent. At what point did any of these 5000+ people say "hey this is wrong?" Apparently none of them. That's pretty sad. Yes, quitting on ethical grounds sucks, being out of a job you had because you quit sucks, but I'm sure a lawyer would have loved to take that case against WF. But its not an easy decision to make. Pay the rent, or quit because of 'ethics'. I can see how some people would have a problem with the latter in order to keep doing to former.

  6. Hoping for a refund by safetyinnumbers · · Score: 2

    I don't suppose that the $16 a month that they charge just for having an account with them is part of the scam?

    1. Re:Hoping for a refund by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you're paying somebody to hold onto your money for you, you're doing something wrong.

    2. Re:Hoping for a refund by The-Ixian · · Score: 2

      Or the fact that they don't show you debit transactions for days and then process them all at once BEFORE any pending deposits... it's all a scam to try make you overdraft.

      I left WF behind a long time ago and I have been happy ever since.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  7. Stop linking to CNNMoney. by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This story is from the same CNNMoney that declared that Math is Racist

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
    1. Re:Stop linking to CNNMoney. by amicusNYCL · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's not even the worst of it!

      Employees went so far as to create phony PIN numbers

      The PIN numbers weren't even real! It's amazing this fraud was detected at all, they looked just like actual PIN numbers!

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    2. Re:Stop linking to CNNMoney. by eth1 · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's not even the worst of it!

      Employees went so far as to create phony PIN numbers

      The PIN numbers weren't even real! It's amazing this fraud was detected at all, they looked just like actual PIN numbers!

      My PIN isn't real, either. It's 342i

    3. Re:Stop linking to CNNMoney. by Buchenskjoll · · Score: 2

      Built on NT Technology.

      --
      -- Make America hate again!
    4. Re:Stop linking to CNNMoney. by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      This story is from the same CNNMoney that declared that Math is Racist

      The story declared no such thing, but don't let that stop you. It describes how statistics and computer algorithms and models are used to perpetuate inequality and racist dynamics. It says math is being used to perpetuate racism, not that math is racist.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  8. "The CFPB declined... by gatfirls · · Score: 4, Informative

    .... to explain how it came up with the $100 million penalty figure."

    Ooh Ooh pick me!

    They sat down with Wells Fargo lawyers and accountants and came to an agreed upon amount.

    I don't know how people continue to bank with a place that has repeatedly been shown to do everything they can to screw their customers, it wasn't too long ago they were appealing the class action suit because they were stacking debit transactions largest to smallest to maximize overdraft revenue.

    1. Re:"The CFPB declined... by imidan · · Score: 2

      I don't know how people continue to bank with a place that has repeatedly been shown to do everything they can to screw their customers

      I bank with Wells Fargo because they bought the bank I was going to before, and it's a little bit of a pain in the ass to change banks. I don't pay any fees for my various accounts there. I also don't keep very much money there, because their interest rates are comparable with other national banks: 0.01% APY on a savings account, 0.05% on a CD. You can trivially do better than that with on-line options.

      But, basically, inertia. I haven't had sufficient motivation to switch.

    2. Re:"The CFPB declined... by Nethead · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "I don't know how people continue to bank with a place that has repeatedly been shown to do everything they can to screw their customers.."

      That has always been my question. About 6 months ago I noticed that my local community bank had opened a branch next to the grocery store/pharm that I stop at at least 4 times a week. I went in an opened an account and could not be happier. I hardly ever have to show ID, they know me by name. I'm support local a local business and the local businesses that use the bank (most of their customers are commercial.) I recognize most of the board as local civic leaders and business-people. It's a small bank with a dozen locations, serving just my county. My checking account number is under 1500 and my savings account number is under 500. The provide good e-services with 2FA. Their ATM is an off brand model that I've never seen so the chances of someone making a skimmer for it is slim. The checking account is free as long as I keep $300 in savings, not an issue. I've never been asked to upgrade or add accounts. They mail me a one page statement each month that is thoughtfully 3 holed punched for storage in a binder. Financial reviews on the web give it an A rating or 4 stars. The health of assets is considered excellent.

      Why, in the tangle of FSM's noodles do people go with these huge national banks? Good local banks and S&Ls are all over the place!

      --
      -- I have a private email server in my basement.
  9. If one employee had done this by wickerprints · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If only a single employee had done this, they'd be sent to prison for fraud, right after being fired. But because this behavior was so widespread and apparently came from top levels, what is corporate person that is Wells Fargo to face? A fine that amounts to a slap on the wrist. After all, we can't jail anyone who might be rich and powerful enough to have allowed such fraud to be perpetuated, can we? Too big to fail = too big to jail. And this exposes the blatant hypocrisy inherent to the notion of "corporate personhood."

    1. Re:If one employee had done this by amiga3D · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They committed the sin of getting caught. Therefore they have to pay. Nobody sees the inside of a jail though, that's for the little people not bankers.

    2. Re:If one employee had done this by sconeu · · Score: 2

      Question 2: How many of those 5300 ex-employees will face criminal charges for identity theft?

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    3. Re:If one employee had done this by wickerprints · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Corporate personhood absolutely lies at the heart of the problem, because it is this legal doctrine that grants corporations those rights, privileges, and protections normally granted to actual persons; and in turn, corporations are, as a single legal "person," able to wield their disproportionate economic power to influence policies, and more importantly the enforcement thereof, in their favor, regardless of politics. This is the very definition of plutocracy, and it is why, while partisans on both sides of the political spectrum bicker ceaselessly about who is to blame for systemic corruption, nothing has been fixed: because corporations have bought the favor of everyone in government whose favor can be bought, which of course is the overwhelming majority.

      The real struggle in the United States is not about Democrat versus Republican. That ideological division is perpetuated by those who are in real power--the corporate plutocrats and the companies they control, from Silicon Valley to the mainstream media to traditional manufacturing and energy production. It is in their interests to continue to pit the voting public against each other in an ultimately futile battle, because it hides who really calls the shots.

  10. Was this possible because of SSNs? by jader3rd · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This sounds like a reason to make it finable for a company to have your SSN, unless they are the Social Security Office, or are your employer and are contributing to social security on your behalf.

    Having a unique ID, that's so easily obtainable, is ripe for abuse.

    1. Re:Was this possible because of SSNs? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      The SSN wasn't important in this case. By definition, your bank has whatever information is required to open an account, and can thus duplicate it. Now, some form of digital signing could be used to fix those issues, but...

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  11. Obligatory by Dracos · · Score: 5, Funny

    In capitalist America, stagecoach robs you!

  12. Re:Fine seems Tiny by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Funny

    My generation used to burn B of A branches every weekend for weenie roasts. It does not seem to have changed the bank's behavior.

    Your generation obviously done a piss poor job of burning BoA branches; they're still in business.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  13. unpunished by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If a company benefits from fraud, they are guilty of fraud. Why does basic conflict of interest go unpunished today?

    ... because they have the congress critters in their pocket. Koch brothers concluded many years ago it was better being the script writer behind the scene than being the actors on stage.

    --
    ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
  14. Refunds? by MMC+Monster · · Score: 2

    The bank agreed to pay $185 million in fines, along with $5 million to refund customers.

    So they created millions of fake accounts and charged them fees ... and now they're required to only refund $5million to customers? Is each account only going to be refunded $5, or am I missing something here.

    If this was an individual and not a bank, he (or she) would be going to jail. This sounds like a collaborative effort. Why isn't a racketeering investigation taking place?

    --
    Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
  15. I'm sure most retail banks do this by dejitaru · · Score: 2

    This was the stuff that made me sick when I worked at Bank of America almost a decade ago. Everyone was so persistent to getting their numbers (especially number of checking accounts they can open) that i'd see people open up checking accounts for a customer when they already had one, or open 2-3 for a new customer, just because. You were expected to open a minimum of 3 checking accounts per day, and my branch was very slow... yeah I rarely ever hit my numbers.

  16. Re:Fine seems Tiny by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I can't believe any abuse is this widespread without upper management knowing.

    (There's probably a Hillary joke in there somewhere.)

    Based on my experience in Cubicle-Land, management probably suspected it but turned a blind eye, Sgt. Schultz-style, because it boosted their jurisdiction's sales stats.

  17. This explains... by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm tending to an elderly (creeping Alzheimers-ish) parent with a Wells Fargo checking account. Out of blue she started getting a statement for a completely unused Wells Fargo-branded/partnered AmEx account. She had no recollection of ever setting something like that up, but I assumed that her trashed memory meant she checked some box or inadvertently opted in along the way without realizing it. That's still very possible. But this is even MORE possible. We are not amused.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:This explains... by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      I assumed that her trashed memory meant she checked some box or inadvertently opted in along the way without realizing it.

      But of course!

      Money laundering, mortgage fraud, this, the list goes on and on. Once again we confirm that the banks are criminal organizations that are too big to punish. And now, let's watch who will come running to their defense one more time with more hand waving denials :-)

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  18. No jail? by AndyKron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why aren't these people going to jail?

    1. Re:No jail? by stevez67 · · Score: 2

      Just around the office of the CEO, and the boardroom during a board meeting. And leave them there.

  19. The second screwing burns even worse! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But imagine paying fees on a ghost account you didn't even sign up for.

    Then imagine you try to sue them for it and it's thrown out of court because the cheating agent who signed you up agreed on your behalf to settle any differences in arbitration.

  20. Re:Good governance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "This isn't rocket science."

    No, but it's social science. We've given up raising children with a sense of right and wrong and of shame. You take shame out of the equation and the fear of what "others" might think of you we end up with 5000+ employees who would rather victimize countless strangers so they can keep what they have rather than look for another job.

    I don't give a rip if they were threatened with getting fired. They were selfish prats with no sense of ethics. It's this attitude that ALLOWS the powerful to control the "powerless".

  21. Did you RTFA? by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "...some states started using recidivism models to guide sentencing. These take into account things like prior convictions, where you live, drug and alcohol use, previous police encounters, and criminal records of friends and family. "

    That sounds pretty awful to me. Grow up in a bad neighborhood thanks to 250 years of institutionalized racism (google it if you don't understand the term), Go directly to Jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  22. Make the bank really pay by Maclir · · Score: 3, Insightful

    by revoking it's banking license. They clearly are not capable of operating with the degree of ethics required, so shut them down. And mark all the executives as ineligible to work in a financial / securities / insurance business for the term of their working life.