Linux Kernel 3.14 Series Has Reached End of Life (softpedia.com)

Slashdot reader prisoninmate quotes an article on Softpedia: it looks like the Linux kernel maintainers decided that there's no need to maintain the Linux kernel 3.14 LTS series anymore, so earlier today, September 11, 2016, they decided to release that last maintenance update, version 3.14.79, and mark the series as EOL (End of Life). Famous Linux kernel maintainer Greg Kroah-Hartman was the one to make the big announcement, and he's urging users who want to still run a long-term supported kernel version to move to the Linux 4.4 LTS series, which is currently the most advanced LTS branch, or use the latest stable release, Linux kernel 4.7.3...

Linux kernel 3.14.79 is a very small update that changes a total of 12 files, with 45 insertions and 17 deletions, thus fixing a bug in the EXT4 file system, a networking issue related to the Reliable Datagram Sockets (RDS) protocol, and updating a few HID, s390, SCSI, networking drivers.

Comments

What?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've still got systems running 3.13.

WAIT! I've still got systems running 2.6.

Re:What?

[Ol Olsoc]

I've still got systems running 3.13.

WAIT! I've still got systems running 2.6.

If they are doing their jobs - why not?

Re:What?

[K. S. Kyosuke]

You could still slightly upgrade to pi and e, though.

Re: What?

[Billly Gates]

What many non support/admin IT types do not realize is we are responsible for security. I've seen write-ups hit those whose IE 6 systems allowed ransomware. Oddly the one doing the write-up denied the request to update.

So damned if you do damned if you don't hence why we hate not forced updates, but rather the security patch is the new agile release etc. I left Mozilla Firefox after 4.0 for this reason and downgraded my office to IE.

With Windows 10 and soon server 2k12 and Windows 7 being only cumulative I may change careers! Kernel 2.6 needs 10 years support too!

How in hell do I avoid shell shock, ransomware, but still no releases bringing in bugs all at the same time??

This is bs and very disrespectful to the users.

Re: What?

[Anonymous Coward]

How in hell do I avoid shell shock, ransomware, but still no releases bringing in bugs all at the same time??

Proper change management and deployment processes, with integrated automated testing (including security auditing/validation) has worked out pretty well for me over the last ~15 years. -PCP

Re: What?

[Billly Gates]

Ok explain the next October update for server 2012 R2 is all or nothing which breaks apps as it includes +110 other updates just to fix one security whole?

No you can't pick and choose hence cumulative

Re:What?

[Opportunist]

Umm... security?

If it's a system disconnected from the world with no incoming data possible whatsoever (though I would like to know what the system is good for, then), ok. In all other cases, running an ancient system is probably flirting with disaster.

Re: What?

[Anonymous Coward]

You handle it just like you would any other update. You put it through your testing pipeline, see what breaks, determine whether you can deploy workarounds or compensating measures for any outstanding defects, and make a final business decision on whether you can proceed to production. If the end result is "nope, we can't deploy this," it's probably time to reevaluate the suitability of that operating system with regard to your business use case. -PCP

Re: What?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really, you're just misunderstanding the whole linux kernel ecosystem.

Unless you're running a plain vanilla 3.14 kernel, this just plain does not affect you.

Most users will be using a distro kernel, and it's the distribution that has the responsibility to maintain their kernel versions, which they will still do.

For example, RHEL 5 still gets security updates until March next year, and runs kernel 2.6.18 (originally released in 2006).

I'm sorry, but your entire post both misses the point, and comes off as a load of rambling twaddle.

Re:What?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've still got systems running 3.13.

WAIT! I've still got systems running 2.6.

And your point is?

Re: What?

[Ol Olsoc]

How in hell do I avoid shell shock, ransomware, but still no releases bringing in bugs all at the same time??

Proper change management and deployment processes, with integrated automated testing (including security auditing/validation)

8 hours of sleep a night, belief in the power of prayer, and probiotics, and a good account with your psychic friend helps too.

Re: What?

[Ol Olsoc]

If the end result is "nope, we can't deploy this," it's probably time to reevaluate the suitability of that operating system with regard to your business use case. -PCP

This is just precious. Next explain how you, the erstwhile IT guy, goes about telling the people who decided long ago that they were going to go with the gold standard of the industry, Microsoft - that they have to change their Operating system.

I've related my Vista OS support nightmare many times in here. It involves experts, a shitload of wasted money, dismissals, horrible infighting, and eventual desperation. And an ultimatum by yours truly to fix the system, or wallow in the shithole they put themselves in - which indeed involved a different OS. Your nice clean everyone working in harmonious harmony and blissful coexistence is a nice story, brah. I fear that my experience is not all that unusual.

Re: What?

[chmod a x mojo]

This is just precious. Next explain how you, the erstwhile IT guy, goes about telling the people who decided long ago that they were going to go with the gold standard of the industry, Microsoft - that they have to change their Operating system.

Easy, in a way they can understand. This would include risk assessments, cost : benefit ratios, short / medium term benefit : inevitable data breach cost ratios, and if necessary lots of pretty charts and graphs if words are too hard for your upper echelon to understand. And documentation that you actually both made the suggestions, and gave detailed data on what could and probably will happen in the case of them not taking suggestions in case they still decide not to follow their IT teams advice, just to cover your own ass to even higher management infrastructure.

In short, explain it in terms of money.

Anyone who CAN'T make a compelling case in IT probably shouldn't be in IT.

Re: What?

[Ol Olsoc]

This is just precious. Next explain how you, the erstwhile IT guy, goes about telling the people who decided long ago that they were going to go with the gold standard of the industry, Microsoft - that they have to change their Operating system.

Easy, in a way they can understand.

And when after your logical impressive and factual presentation, you are told "We are an institution that uses Windows, because it is the industry standard, and we will continue to use the industry standard. You can go now".

One of my favorite industry standard moments was years ago, when we had a Video Toaster demo for the entire organization. In the day, the toaster of course, ran on the Amiga platform. After wowing the crowd, one of the head honchos said "We have to have this, but it has to be on the Microsoft PC". The guy demoing it said, sorry, the Video Toaster only runs on the Amiga platform."

Suit says "I don't think you understand. We need this device badly, but we are a Microsoft organization, so you have to sell us Video Toasters that run on PC's."

The demo guy opens his mouth to say something then thinks better of it, then pauses for a minute, and says "We'll work on it." Suit was happy, Demo guy had a incredible asshole story to tell at HQ.

I was in a different group, had some more power, and just bought a Toaster system. But the rest of them couldn't, and were stuck with what they had until non-linear editing arrived, because when you are an industry standard Operating System place, it doesn't matter what you present.

More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

At least with Windows, you know how long your OS is going to be maintained for. They don't just randomly decide that they're done issuing updates and discontinue it. Besides, each version of Windows is maintained longer than Linux, which is another plus. And unlike Linux, Windows still supports old hardware like 32 bit systems. There's no reason to replace a system that's working just fine, but that's what your forced to do when developers just randomly decide that it's time to stop maintaining a version of Linux.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[alvinrod]

Obvious troll is obvious, but with Linux if it's really important you can continue maintaining it yourself as the source code is available. I don't think anyone is terribly likely to do this, but with Windows the option isn't even there.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

At least with Windows, you know how long your OS is going to be maintained for. They don't just randomly decide that they're done issuing updates and discontinue it. Besides, each version of Windows is maintained longer than Linux, which is another plus. And unlike Linux, Windows still supports old hardware like 32 bit systems. There's no reason to replace a system that's working just fine, but that's what your forced to do when developers just randomly decide that it's time to stop maintaining a version of Linux.

As a longtime Linux user, it would make me very happy if you (and everyone else who thinks like you do) would stay on Windows.

Beating Microsoft at the desktop game is a puerile pissing contest that I don't care about. However I do care about interacting with a community of users who can understand the most basic and easily Googled things, such as the ease with which the Linux kernel can be used on a 32-bit system. See how that works?

I agree with Alvinrod that you are probably a troll, but who knows? There are plenty of stupid people who might say such things in all seriousness.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

This is quote from another AC:

All Linux LTS releases have an EOL schedule, which is public, and known at least one year in advance. For 3.14, the projected EOL was August/2016. GregKH even gave it an extra month...

Current list:
https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

Longterm release kernels Version, Maintainer, Released, Projected EOL
4.4 Greg Kroah-Hartman 2016-01-10 Feb, 2018
4.1 Sasha Levin 2015-06-21 Sep, 2017
3.18 Sasha Levin 2014-12-07 Jan, 2017
3.16 Ben Hutchings 2014-08-03 Apr, 2020
3.12 Jiri Slaby 2013-11-03 Jan, 2017
3.10 Willy Tarreau 2013-06-30 Oct, 2017
3.4 Li Zefan 2012-05-20 Sep, 2016
3.2 Ben Hutchings 2012-01-04 May, 2018

Really, this is linked right there on the front page of www.kernel.org ("Releases" link on top of page).

So YES, we know how long Linux kernels are going to be maintained for.
YES, You can also find most of big distributions' support periods from their websites.
and YES, Linux kernel still supports 32 bit systems and more.
Support period may vary between distributions though, most of them support upgrade to newer versions for free! So theoretically Linux supports a lot longer than each version of Windows. You are obviously a troll. I wonder if you have ever used Linux or BSD before. i doubt!

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[fizzer06]

I wonder if MS will continue to support Windows 7 to the advertised EOL.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[epyT-R]

That's what the LTS branches are for...and unlike Windows, you're free to upgrade whenever it suits you. Linux runs on 32 bit systems just fine, you just need a better distro.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[hairyfeet]

Riiight, and if you need a part for your Chevy here is some iron ore, you CAN smelt iron...right?

And people wonder why MSFT can put out 3 stinkers in a row and get more users in a fricking week than Linux has gotten for their desktop in 22 years.....ROFL just write your own kernel patches,why stop there? Why not tell them to grow some sheep so they can have sweaters, drop an oil rig or two and set up their own gas refinery, and grow some rubber trees to make the tires?

Riddle me this oh wise one...which do you think would be cheaper, hire an entire fucking kernel development team just to get support beyond 5 years, or pay $200 for a copy of Windows Pro and get 10 years of support?

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't understand kernel development.

For a bug you have, it only takes ONE.

for a second thing, Linux kernels are far more downward compatible than you realize. And WAY more downward compatible than Windows.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[ArmoredDragon]

Riiight, and if you need a part for your Chevy here is some iron ore, you CAN smelt iron...right?

Well, an iron ingot is easier to obtain than ore, and obtaining a programming book and learning to hack the kernel is easier and cheaper than obtaining an iron ingot, a machine shop, and learning how to use machining/milling tools.

But that's besides the point. The point is that for IT shops, you can always pay somebody to write a patch for your dated Linux systems, which your existing IT staff can then mass deploy. However if your windows systems go out of support, it's time to buy new computers, servers, etc.

Re: More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Billly Gates]

Hairy I friended you because I agree with 80% of your rants. I used to agree with Linux too with no ABI meaning breaks with updates.

However, Windows 10 is proving us wrong. Next month all versions of Windows both server and desktop will be one cumulative patch?! Also, I am very close to downgrading back to Windows 8.1. Windows 10 breaks ALOT. More than Linux now.

This past month I have seen PowerShell DSC, nested Hyper-V virtualization, update at a later time, and AMD Crimson drivers all break with updates. Thank God I bought the pro to differ updates ( it was off which is my fault). But if I have one and I mean one showstopper I am going back and will migrate to the crappy and no longer made VMware workstation I under 8.1

Ubuntu LTS hopefully shouldn't have these surprises and I may go there if kms/qemu supports nested virtualization for my mcse labs

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[donaldm]

Riiight, and if you need a part for your Chevy here is some iron ore, you CAN smelt iron...right?

That analogy is for hardware not software. Anyway, why would I want to buy a Chevy in the first place?

And people wonder why MSFT can put out 3 stinkers in a row and get more users in a fricking week than Linux has gotten for their desktop in 22 years

Since you are talking about the Desktop you are quite correct but do you really stop and ask why?

I supposed you have never heard of what most people in the IT industry call the "Microsoft Tax" and the fact that most people think that a PC, tablet or "smart phone" are a commodity and could not care less about the operating system and the underlying kernel. Actually my bad I probably should not have used "smart phones" as an example since most (over 80%) have a Linux kernel.

Riddle me this oh wise one...which do you think would be cheaper, hire an entire fucking kernel development team just to get support beyond 5 years, or pay $200 for a copy of Windows Pro and get 10 years of support?

Well if you had enterprise systems you can pay Microsoft for support if you have MS Windows OS's or you could pay Redhat for Linux 10 year support and at least you get a professional engineer rather than someone who just says "press the reset button".

So you have Windows XP but do you really have the original Windows XP? You should know that three service packs have been released in addition to multiple updates with the kernel being updated many times as well and the only way you will get support is if you have the latest service pack and the later updates. This concept actually applies to all software be it kernel or applications.

BTW. Windows XP - released August 24, 2001 with end of mainstream support April 14, 2009 - not quite 10 years although to be fair extended support was to April 8, 2014.

The bottom line is software normally gets updated over time "get over it".

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

If you use RHEL, for example, you generally get at least 10 years of support. If you pay, you can get even more. Please continue ranting now, since you don't give a flying fuck about facts anyway.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[bloodhawk]

why wouldn't they, they have supported every other OS for the last 20 odd years to "at least" the advertised EOL, many have received extensions beyond that.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Khyber]

"Well, an iron ingot is easier to obtain than ore"

Not true. You can grab dry land just about anywhere and you'll likely have iron oxide (an ore of iron) right there. How much dry land out there will allow youto just reach down and grab an iron ingot?

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Zontar The Mindless]

Anyway, why would I want to buy a Chevy in the first place?

Because it's not a Ford, of course!

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[jawtheshark]

You'd think so, but in reality, that's not quite true: Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000, both stopped getting security patches before their EOL.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[serviscope_minor]

The bullshit is strong with this one.

Linux is a kernel, not an OS. With windows, you don't know how long your kernel will be maintained for. They don't tell you, and it gets updated every so often. Who cares?

If you want to know how long your OS is updated for, then, um, look at how long the vendor says it's updated for. For example Ubuntu LTS is updated for 5 years. Redhat Enterprise gets 10 years of support.

And unlike Linux, Windows still supports old hardware like 32 bit systems.

Except, you know, Linux does. Oh And Linux supports those bits of old hardware on 64 bit systems too. And it supports that same hardware from ARM systems too. Does windows do that?

There's no reason to replace a system that's working just fine, but that's what your forced to do when developers just randomly decide that it's time to stop maintaining a version of Linux.

If you're too thick to read your OS's page about maintenance so a predictable 5 years is random to you, then yes, perhaps a Linux based OS is not the OS for you.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[serviscope_minor]

Riiight, and if you need a part for your Chevy here is some iron ore, you CAN smelt iron...right?

Well, sure you can if you like, but you'd probably be better off hiring a mechanic like the rest of us. Or, you know, pick a distro with 10 years support if you want that sort of thing.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Opportunist]

Trolling, ignorant or spreading FUD? Don't know, and frankly, I don't know if I care.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

A nice example of comparing apples to oranges there.

"which do you think would be cheaper, hire an entire fucking kernel development team just to get support beyond 5 years, or pay $200 for a copy of Windows Pro and get 10 years of support?"

Or... you know... use a Linux distro that is supported for the length of time that you need, e.g. Ubuntu LTS - 5 years, CentOS - 10 years, and that's even before you get to the commercial distros.

And obviously, Windows 7 will fully support all current hardware won't it, given that it's less than 10 years old? Nope. MS trying to reduce support for Skylake processors/chipsets, and not going to support Intel Kaby Lake & AMD Zen processors at all.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

In december 2012, Linux dropped support for the 32-bit Intel 80386 CPU. There was some talk about dropping support for the 80486 also, but after ONE person on Linux kernel mailing list claimed to still have one (which was only used for testing Linux kernels, btw), it was decided to keep 80486 support.

The 80386 was the first 32-bit x86 CPU, introduced in 1986.
The 80486, still supported, was the second 32-bit x86 cpu, introduced in 1989.

How old hardware does Windows support again?

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[donaldm]

No they will not fully support Windows 7 until the advertised EOL. At least not on Kaby Lake processors, which are due out in a few months. Windows 7 will not be officially supported on Kaby Lake at all. Windows 7 is only supported to the advertised EOL if you continue to run it on pre-Kaby-Lake CPUs.

Thus many corporates have had to adjust their plans to keep running Windows 7.

I run the latest Skylake chipset and my Z170 motherboard only supports Windows 8.and 10 as well as "other OS" which works fine with my Linux (Fedora 23 and now 24) distribution. Even Mint works flawlessly in a virtual machine. I also have Windows 10 genuine malware edition which you can get here also in a virtual machine, however I don't like the way it likes to talk on the internet (Wireshark is your friend here) even though I have locked down the system, hence I don't run it.

Re: More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[hairyfeet]

Sigh....let me spell it out FUCK WINDOWS 10, its nothing but spyware.

Stick with Windows 7 or 8.1, your choice. 8.1 gets updates until 2023 (if you really care about that sort of thing, I've found if you have the browser sandboxed and ads blocked patches are pointless as no bug is gonna get anywhere, I have even gone out of my way to try to infect a newly installed RTM Win 7 without a single patch installed...nothing) and by that time Nutella will be history and hopefully the next guy will actually right the ship.

And if you have to have Win 10? Wait 6 months and get the pirate version, AKA the "Gamer Edition". There is already a Gamer edition of 8.1 out there that strips out the appstore and other crap and it flies, there really is no point in Windows 10, its a POS. Oh and if you want to know WHY its a POS? Look up Barnacles Nerdgasm's "I was fired" video on YouTube, he was part of the QA team and he talks about how the ENTIRE Windows QA and tester teams were FIRED...why did they do that? Because YOU Mr Sucker who uses Windows 10 are the alpha tester!

MSFT has made it clear the only version they give a fuck about is Win 10 Enterprise, the one you have to rent. Windows 10 Home is the alpha, with no way to even postpone all the buggy code they puke on it, Windows 10 Pro is the beta, still buggy as fuck but at least they can delay long enough for the Home users to get shat all over and see which bits get cleaned off, and Win 10 Enterprise is the actual OS, where you have the same level of control and quality they had on previous releases.

So the choice is clear....either you pay $7 a month for eternity for Win 10 Enterprise or you stick with a previous version, I myself as well as my customers will be doing the latter and counting the days until Nutella gets his walking papers. Oh and nobody will ever give a shit about Ubuntu as their programs won't run on it and mark my words, HTML V5 will have enough baked in DRM that nobody will be able to watch shit on Linux which I predict will be relegated to crap like the R-Pi as Secureboot and the new AMD and Intel APUs having proprietary features like HDCP baked into the core of the chip will make Linux go back another decade.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you able to understand the difference between some geek who lives to tinker with an OS and the rest of humanity who just want to run their applications? The "community of users " tend to be a bunch of pricks who hand out more derision than helpful advice for those they consider lesser mortals. If the fan club spent more time developing applications instead of touting their favorite chosen Linux distro maybe there would be more people on the platform. As things stand the growing number of Linux distros will fragment the user space even more than it currently is. Linux would also benefit from it's supporters addressing the issues with in Linux instead of only pointing problems in other OS's. This attitude has created a false sense of security on the Linux platform because it's supports rip the security of other OS's instead of addressing those same type of security issues with the Linux platforms and application stack.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

OK I'll bite.

>At least with Windows, you know how long your OS is going to be maintained for.
- With Linux, it's EOL is known and announced at each version's release. With Win it's unknown upon release, though an EOL is announced a year beforehand at least.

>They don't just randomly decide that they're done issuing updates and discontinue it.
- Neither Linux nor MS does that. And BTW the mentality is never 'just done issuing updates'. The professional solution is to have replacements ahead of time, c'mon these are both professional organizations.

>Besides, each version of Windows is maintained longer than Linux, which is another plus.
- Incorrect, infact they're extended nurshing-along is a shame because they're never as 'up to date' as Linux.

>And unlike Linux, Windows still supports old hardware like 32 bit systems.
- So does Linux, you're just incorrect & flamebaiting. Or ignorant (which is possible).

> There's no reason to replace a system that's working just fine,
- Looking at you Win 10 (RIP Win 7 and various MS products that were fine until fudged with). Did you know there used to be an annotation box in XP in the properties of .JPGs you could write notes about the pic? Yeah that was taken away after some numbnuts were caught using them to keep diaries of criminal activities- a great attribute goc asked them to take away but was working well for the rest of us).

>but that's what your forced to do
- Forced? Looking at W 10 again.

>when developers just randomly decide that it's time to stop maintaining a version of Linux.
- No one randomly decides. Are you for real? And this next sentence should have been at the top but here goes: This subject is on the KERNAL not Linux versions. Kernal! Versions are actually meaningless.

Bye...

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

BINGO! Powned ya haters, each and every one.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[slcdb]

The kernel maintainers always announce the expected EOL date when they announce a new LTS kernel. This wasn't randomly decided. It was known for years in advance by people who, unlike you, know what they're talking about.

Re: More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[ArmoredDragon]

Oh that's easy, just walk into a trailer park and you'll easily find some iron scrap sitting around. Sure, it's not an ingot, but who cares? It'll do what you want.

Re: More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Billly Gates]

Long term Hairy that is not a good solution as 78.1 also will be updated the same way. Eventually Windows 7 will go EOL in a few 3 short years.

AMD/Intel will only work with Windows 10 in the newer chips coming out and the world moves on. Of course you can help upgrade which makes you more money at your shop :-)

I think Linux LTS might be the only way to go or a Mac if the user really needs Adobe, auto cad, or Office which is what is tying them to win32. I hope MS does improve QA as they desperately need it. I am on the MCSE path again so I need to be in Microsoft land as my job and employers expect me to be a AD/Azure expert. But not every user knows how to configure KMS/Qemu virutalization and it is silly that geeks here say that users would prefer this .... but my point hairy if theri system bricks with a bad driver update every other month they may reconsider this crazy approach so they have a working system on older hardware or go all Mac.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[bloodhawk]

ummm both of those confirm it not dispute it. NT 4.0 EOL was 2004. Windows 2000 EOL'ed in 2010 and received security patches till then.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[Anonymous Coward]

NT 4.0 users were given a workaround as the fix was a design change. both got security patches PAST their EOL.

Re:More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[jawtheshark]

Read again, they refused to make security patches for certain flaws because "it was deemed too much work". That is not "receiving security patches until EOL".

Re: More reasons to use Windows instead of Linux

[hairyfeet]

NO PATCHES ARE NEEDED, what is so hard to understand? Or do you think black helicopters are gonna sneak in to your house and attack your unpatched system?

I went out of my way to TRY to get an RTM Win 7 system infected...we're talking topsites, crack sites, porn sites, your "watch the latest movies now!" sites, malware infested sites all and...nothing. Zip zero nada squat. So why should I give a shit if Win 7 or 8.1 goes EOL, which again I'm betting Nutella will be FIRED before that date rolls around?

If you want to take the Goatse pose so MSFT can fist you? That is your choice, but if they want MY data? PAY ME. MSFT don't give shit away for free and neither do I, and the same goes to Google and Yahoo, want that data? Cut me a check. Privacy badger makes sure nobody gets shit I don't get paid for and I don't give a rat's ass what MSFT says

As for the new CPUs? I don't use APUs and I haven't seen a single program yet that even requires advanced CPU instructions that are only supported on Win 7, much less 8.1 or 10 so again I smell bullshit. Remember they said the same about DirectX, everyone would have to switch to Vista because of DirectX, remember? what happened? developers saw they would be cutting more than half the market out so other than MSFT's own Halo everyone kept right on supporting DX9 until Win 7 came out and was popular.

Ultimately I believe the market will back me up and come 2020 MSFT will just have to start popping that snooze alarm on Win 7 because Win 10, like Win 8 before it, simply isn't gonna be popular enough to take the majority slot. Its too buggy, too ugly, and even grandma's know its malware infested. Hell I have made more uninstalling Win 10 on new systems than I did on Win 8 and that is saying something. But history I believe will put Win 10 into the same "wow that was shit" camp that Vista and 8 are in and once Nutella is shown the door they will have no choice but to make a decent OS, that or give the money back to the shareholders and call it a day because everyone will have left for Google or Apple. Hell its gotten so bad I've seen Win 10 tablets for $60 at Fred's, they just can't give the things away because nobody wants win 10.

3.14

[Barny]

Why, if it is now EOL, and they are releasing the last update, did they not make it "159"

Then we could run Pi Linux 3.14.159

I know, I know, version numbers and such, this was still a missed opportunity.

Re:3.14

[antdude]

No, just keep adding new digits after 3.14 FOREVER! ;)

Re:3.14

[eeyore]

No, just keep adding new digits after 3.14 FOREVER! ;)

Isn't that too \TeX{}nical for Linux geeks??

--

E

Re: 3.14

[Anonymous Coward]

But Pi is irrational, so don't expect the versioning to be rational. But I suppose this version already has support for Pi. If Pi reaches end of support then can we any more compute the circumference of the circle from its diameter. Pi is also nonalgebraic so don't expect algebra to solve this.

Re:3.14

[antdude]

Technical for nerds? Oh brother.

It was EOLed right on schedule

[Anonymous Coward]

All Linux LTS releases have an EOL schedule, which is public, and known at least one year in advance. For 3.14, the projected EOL was August/2016. GregKH even gave it an extra month...

Current list:
https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

Longterm release kernels Version, Maintainer, Released, Projected EOL
4.4 Greg Kroah-Hartman 2016-01-10 Feb, 2018
4.1 Sasha Levin 2015-06-21 Sep, 2017
3.18 Sasha Levin 2014-12-07 Jan, 2017
3.16 Ben Hutchings 2014-08-03 Apr, 2020
3.12 Jiri Slaby 2013-11-03 Jan, 2017
3.10 Willy Tarreau 2013-06-30 Oct, 2017
3.4 Li Zefan 2012-05-20 Sep, 2016
3.2 Ben Hutchings 2012-01-04 May, 2018

Really, this is linked right there on the front page of www.kernel.org ("Releases" link on top of page).

Re:It was EOLed right on schedule

[Anonymous Coward]

Meanwhile, Windows 10 is supported until October 14, 2025.

Re:It was EOLed right on schedule

[Anonymous Coward]

Now if we can just get synology to go past 3.10

Re:It was EOLed right on schedule

[twistedcubic]

A when Windows 10 updates its kernel, it's still called...Windows 10.

Re: It was EOLed right on schedule

[Billly Gates]

Nope Windows 10 is supported for 6 months. Then you need bi annual update. 9 months for the pro version if you choose to defer updates on the CBB business update channel.

Afterwards you are not supported and shit will break if you do update. I ll take Linux Ubuntu LTS thank you very much ... If I didn't have a need for Windows software sigh

Re: It was EOLed right on schedule

[Anonymous Coward]

incorrect, windows 10 has an LTSB branch with a 10 year support cycle. Only CBB and consumer versions have to go through the deferred updates.

Re: It was EOLed right on schedule

[bloodhawk]

Nope Windows 10 is supported for 6 months. Then you need bi annual update. 9 months for the pro version if you choose to defer updates on the CBB business update channel.

Afterwards you are not supported and shit will break if you do update. I ll take Linux Ubuntu LTS thank you very much ... If I didn't have a need for Windows software sigh

wrong.
CB is 4 months minimum
CBB is 8 months minimum
LTSB is 10 years.

Re: It was EOLed right on schedule

[Billly Gates]

Right but it still is 4 to 8 months of support as cumulative updates break apps!

So unless I want to rent my computer for the enterprise edition is there really 10 years of support ... As in just security fixes or bug fixes and not feature updates or mini platform changes? Is the LTSB really 10 years or will new things break shit all the time?

Re:It was EOLed right on schedule

[Opportunist]

Sight difference. The "support", at least the LTS, for Windows usually only includes patches that keeps it running and secure. Support for new hardware or hardware features usually ends MUCH earlier. This is also why Windows 7, which still gets security updates, will never support any of the new features in the next CPU generation. And the same applies to new features for graphics cards, and of course that also means that if there will be a next-gen of USB you will only have a chance for it being supported if the manufacturer decides that they are interested in supporting "old" versions of Windows, because there will be nothing coming out of Redmond.

THAT is the difference between Linux LTS and Windows "LTS".

Re:It was EOLed right on schedule

[Anonymous Coward]

and also to encourage uptake of Windows 12.

Are you saying they are going to skip another good release? How long are we going to have to stay on Windows 7?

2000 bad
XP good
Vista bad
7 good
8 / 8.1 bad
9 good - skipped
10 bad

Re: It was EOLed right on schedule

[bloodhawk]

LTSB is security and bug fixes only.

Re:It was EOLed right on schedule

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 9 is the strongest Windows!

LTR isn't all that long

[davidwr]

Looking at the still-supported LTR kernels, even the oldest one isn't all that old.

For network-connected embedded systems (routers, network-connected printers, IoT, etc.), I would want a kernel that had security-but-patch-maintenance for at least the useful life of the hardware itself - 5-10 years in most cases, longer in some cases like cars, refrigerators, etc.

Perhaps we need a "Very long term release" with an expectation of least 10 years of security fixes, at least for the architecture-independent systems and for a short list of "VLTS-supported" architectures and devices that are in common use in embedded systems.

As someone pointed out already, at least with Linux the source code is available. On the other hand, Microsoft does give 10 years of support for Windows 7/8/8.1 and for the "Long term service branch" mode of Windows 10.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[Anonymous Coward]

2.4 kernel was mantained up to 2012, perfect for your WRT54GL.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you, David, I'm sure I speak for many people in commending you for taking on the largely thankless and stimulation-free role of VLTS kernel maintainer. The world needs more community-spirited people such as yourself.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[DeHackEd]

There is. 2.6.32 had around 6 years of support. Looks like 3.16 will be supported until 2020. Longer would be nice, sure, but 5-6 years for long term seems reasonable for a not-paying-for-it product.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[Anonymous Coward]

Choosing a distro is hardly a Sisyphean task. Most people settle on Ubuntu or Mint after doing 5 minutes research and they'll do just fine. Seriously, having so many options is the single biggest strength of Linux. The only people who obsess about fragmentation are bean counters employed at Redmond or Cupertino. Those kinds of people see the world as big market instead of a collection of interesting groups and opportunities.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[lordlod]

Looking at the still-supported LTR kernels, even the oldest one isn't all that old.

For network-connected embedded systems (routers, network-connected printers, IoT, etc.), I would want a kernel that had security-but-patch-maintenance for at least the useful life of the hardware itself - 5-10 years in most cases, longer in some cases like cars, refrigerators, etc.

If you are designing a device like this and care about maintaining for security then you need to have a continual, preferably over the air, upgrade system in place.

Given that you would be looking at several libc updates over that period upgrading a kernel major version should be expected and not a significant problem. You would be much better off investing more in the update and recovery system than backporting kernel security fixes for ten years.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are designing a device like this and care about maintaining for security then you need to have a continual, preferably over the air, upgrade system in place.

The main thing is an easy upgrade process. For instance, just being able to hold a key or something down, or perhaps a couple during boot to enter a service bootloader that is read only. That would then use an onboard NIC to download a list of alternative operating systems or versions. As long as people can undo any major change then trying major updates may be less scary. For a PC that has been registered with Microsoft, this should also have available at least the version of windows that is linked against it. Worst case this tool could be written to a usb stick, but that still requires a certain amount of effort to create.

Also, if your designing an embedded device you will no doubt want to turn off and not even include every feature and option that is not required. The leaner your load is, the fewer serious security bugs will be in it. Beyond that, well RHEL has a 10 year lifecycle, so no need to automatically go back to microsoft for anything. Heck, you could just use CentOS instead, provided you were willing to do some of the work yourself.

Of course I find RHEL usually pretty out of date, but those are the breaks when you want super long life cycles.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[donaldm]

For network-connected embedded systems (routers, network-connected printers, IoT, etc.), I would want a kernel that had security-but-patch-maintenance for at least the useful life of the hardware itself - 5-10 years in most cases, longer in some cases like cars, refrigerators, etc.

If the device is under warranty then you would expect support, replacement or reimbursement in the event of failure. Once something is out of support you can continue to use it and even organize third party maintenance but the company is under no obligation to continue to provide support.

Perhaps we need a "Very long term release" with an expectation of least 10 years of security fixes, at least for the architecture-independent systems and for a short list of "VLTS-supported" architectures and devices that are in common use in embedded systems

The software and all the tools are available and well documented. Knock yourself out. Who knows you may make some money.

As someone pointed out already, at least with Linux the source code is available. On the other hand, Microsoft does give 10 years of support for Windows 7/8/8.1 and for the "Long term service branch" mode of Windows 10.

You can get long-term support with Linux if you pay for a service contract and that is the same for Microsoft. Ten year support of MS Windows is only available if you have the requisite service packs and updates in place which means the kernel is not the same as the original. Do you honestly believe you can install a generic MS Windows versions of 7, 8.0, 8.1 or even 10 and expect support?

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[donaldm]

There is. 2.6.32 had around 6 years of support. Looks like 3.16 will be supported until 2020. Longer would be nice, sure, but 5-6 years for long term seems reasonable for a not-paying-for-it product.

When you install a particular Linux distribution it will come with a Linux kernel version number. Over time you should be updating your particular Linux distribution and this means updating the kernel as well so as that distribution reaches "end of life" it's kernel will not be the same kernel the original distribution started with. This is no more different to what Microsoft does with it's products.

Why do you want longer? Linux distribution are normally free unless you wish to play for a service contract and even then the above paragraph still applies. With a Linux distribution you can upgrade from one major version to another or you can do a fresh install of the operating system, it's your choice. Again using a Windows comparison you can upgrade from Windows 7 or 8.1 to Windows 10 for free since you should have a legitimate license for the original software. With Linux distributions it's exactly the same except you don't need a license.

For those people who are going to pull "But I have an old laptop and I need my old operating system". My response is "Well no one is forcing you to upgrade but don't expect support". I actually have a 10-year-old HP dv6000 core duo laptop with 2GB of memory and it runs Fedora 24, KDE spin (released 21st June 2016) flawlessly. I even have a Skylake Core i7 16 GB DDR4 memory desktop which I am currently using and Fedora 24, Mint (virtual machine) and even Windows 10 (virtual machine) all run fine. Ok I don't like Windows 10 genuine malware edition so I don't use it.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[serviscope_minor]

For network-connected embedded systems (routers, network-connected printers, IoT, etc.), I would want a kernel that had security-but-patch-maintenance for at least the useful life of the hardware itself - 5-10 years in most cases, longer in some cases like cars, refrigerators, etc.

Why? When was the last time you actually upgraded a kernel by hand? That's a very rare thing to do. If you use a distro, then they'll provide stable kernels for the life of the distro, for 5 to 10 years and the upgrade will happen when you install the normal security patches. They commonly go up to 10 years of support (RedHat).

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[Opportunist]

If you pay it, they will come.

I hope I don't give away a trade secret here, but there are actually companies that took it upon themselves to add years to the LTS. RHEL 5 LTS EOL will be in March 2017, RHEL 6 in November 2020. Those are Kernel 2.6 systems, and we're still talking about patches that add support for new hardware on top of security fixes. Support for security patches only (i.e. no added support for new hardware, pretty much where you're already with pretty much all non-current Windows versions) will end in November 2020 for RHEL 5. We don't know yet when RHEL 6 will reach this final EOL, but expect it for June 2024.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[Anonymous Coward]

*Yawn*

It already exists.

http://ltsi.linuxfoundation.org/

It is explicitly a long term release, that bases itself on Greg K-H's LTS kernel trees, targeted at the consumer electronics industry, with the further goal of collecting industry patches/changes/imporvements/RFEs and feeding them back into the upstream kernel development process.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[Anonymous Coward]

The latest RHELv6 runs on 2.6.32 -- just because Kernel.Org won't supporting it, doesn't mean that commercial vendors do not. RHELv6 is supported to late 2020.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope I don't give away a trade secret here, but there are actually companies that took it upon themselves to add years to the LTS.
[...]
Those are Kernel 2.6 systems, and we're still talking about patches that add support for new hardware on top of security fixes.

Can you provide a detailed account of how these companies test these patches, test all builds on all the new hardware, etc? Oh wait, they don't.

Making sure it compiles != support.

Re:LTR isn't all that long

[DeHackEd]

The original question I replied to stated they were thinking about IoT devices and embedded systems like routers. There tends to not be many officially supported distros for those kinds of markets, rendering everyone's discussion on distro support policies moot.

are you kidding?

[Anonymous Coward]

all you need is a nuke to kill a bug???

Obligatory

[Anonymous Coward]

But I just got finished compiling it!

Re:Obligatory

[Opportunist]

Liar! Nobody ever finishes compiling a kernel, the moment it is done, the moment it is outdated!

Don't panic

[dbIII]

Don't panic - some distros keep on patching those old kernels. That "Very long term release" is called RHEL, CentOS and probably a few others.

Re:Don't panic

[rklrkl]

Yes, it's a bit weird that someone posted up "we need an LTS with 10 years of fixes" when there's been a very prominent one (Red Hat and its derivatives) available for quite some time. RHEL isn't targeted at embedded systems admittedly and they've only just introduced a preview of an ARM variant with version 7. The oldest supported RHEL kernel is the creaking 2.6.18 - with a ton of backports - found in RHEL 5, but beware that support for that ends in 6 months...

Re:Don't panic

[Opportunist]

Well, there's support and there's support. Backporting will probably end in March 17, but you will get critical security fixes for RHEL5 until 2020.

It is advisable, though, that you migrate away from it before that. Preferably even before March 17.

Re:Don't panic

[JImbob0i0]

That's not exactly true ... that 's only if you specifically pay for the Extended Lifecycle Support subscription (which incidentally still supports RHEL4) ...

Red Hat Support Policy

Without that specific extra subscription RHEL5 goes EOL March 2017... and CentOS5 will get the last of its updates then as they don't get and rebuild the ELS packages.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:I just took a shit and now there's a Linux stor

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because you just flushed away a copy of Windows.

Linux kernel vs Linux distribution

[Anonymous Coward]

you don't use kernels from kernel.org unless you are developer or advanced user with specific needs.
for general linux users there are lts distribution releases.
for example centos7 lts is supported until 30 June 2024.
and you can have extended support beyond that if you are redhat customer with commercial support for rhel7.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CentOS#End-of-support_schedule

Re:I just took a shit and now there's a Linux stor

[Opportunist]

Some time ago, I took a shit and now we have a software store in Win10. Coincidence? Correlation? Diarrhea?

renumbering?

[Tomahawk]

It's a pity, for this last release, then didn't break with the numbering convention and just jump to 3.14.159...

Re:renumbering?

[donaldm]

It's a pity, for this last release, then didn't break with the numbering convention and just jump to 3.14.159...

Why do something as pointless as that?

Most current Linux distributions are running a version 4 kernel. My Fedora 24 distribution is running "kernel-core-4.7.2-201.fc24.x86_64" as per the time of me writing, however the initial kernel release was kernel-core-4.5.5-300. I am still running Fedora 24 but the underlying kernel and appropriate packages that needed updating have been updated. So unless you are directly involved with maintaining software who cares if the version numbers have been changed.

Actually, if you do care and are running a Redhat based system (ie. Fedora, CentOS ...) you can run the following command to get changelog information about a particular package: (using the kernel as an example) "rpm -q --changelog kernel-core-4.7.2-201.fc24.x86_64". For that package I would suggest a pager since you will get a huge amount of information. For people using Debian distributions (ie. Mint, Ubuntu, Debian ...) you can use an alternative command.

Before anyone starts waffling/trolling about the Windows operating system. Microsoft does exactly the same except they don't spell out exactly what they do.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Those Linux Kernel Devs Are Gluttons

[Anonymous Coward]

They apparently ate all the pi.

It's time to say...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's time to say goodpi.

Do you hear that Google?

[hackel]

I'm sick of all my Android devices running woefully outdated kernels. Get on it!