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Colin Powell's Private Email Account Has Been Hacked (theverge.com)

According to The New York Times, Former Secretary of State Colin Powell has been hacked and a password-protected archive of his personal emails has been published by DC Leaks. The Verge reports: DC Leaks is the same site that first published emails stolen from the Democratic National Committee, which many took as an explicit effort to influence the U.S. election process. Many experts in the U.S. intelligence apparatus have attributed that attack to the Russian government, although no public attribution has been made. Thus far, there's no evidence tying Powell's hack to Russia, and similar hacks have been carried out by mischievous teens without government affiliation. The immediate result of the hack has been political fallout for Powell himself. Last night, BuzzFeed News reported on an email in which Powell called Republican nominee Donald Trump a "national disgrace," and another in which he said the candidate was "in the process of destroying himself."

46 of 248 comments (clear)

  1. Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by Spy+Handler · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Even though he was an enthusiastic supporter of Obama.

    This does not bode well.

    1. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by Spy+Handler · · Score: 2

      I didn't say this was weird, I said it does not bode well [for Democrats].

      The forces that lifted Obama to the Presidency do not seem to be present for Hillary.

    2. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are two completely different people. The things that made people want to vote for Obama aren't necessarily present in Hillary, and the reasons why people don't want to vote for Hillary weren't necessarily a factor for Obama. Hillary has a lot more baggage than Obama ever did.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    3. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by unixisc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even though he was an enthusiastic supporter of Obama.

      This does not bode well.

      One thing that's never made sense to me was his claim of being a Republican. He had very few Republican positions, and as Secretary of State, he was one of the most Left Wing members of the administration. The reason Iraq (and Afghanistan) went to hell in a handbasket was his influence - the idea of making nation-building a part of the mission was his idea, not just W's. Also, the Valerie Plame leaks - which Scooter Libby was convicted for - was the doings of his deputy Dick Armitage, who now supports HRC. All the things that Libby was accused of - endangering a CIA desk agent - was something that Armitage actually did, and for which paid NO price!

      It's funny how Hilary's minions (to steal Powell's phrase) have totally pissed off Powell from being a never-Trumper to a Hilary-neither voter. Sit at home, Colin!

    4. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, what he specifically said is "I would rather not have to vote for her, although she is a friend I respect". He then refers to her age, her ambition, and her inflexibility.

      I feel the same way as Powell does. I would rather not have to vote for her - but the Republican Party left me with no choice.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      Obama really had virtually no history. He never really did anything special in the Senate. It seems that more and more having actually worked in Washington is not a good thing to brag about on the campaign trail.

    6. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by AJWM · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nonsense, you've got all kinds of choice: Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Darrell Castle, write in somebody else, or just leave that space on the ballot blank.

      People who insist on holding their nose and voting for whichever of the two major party candidates they dislike least because they don't want to "waste their vote" are part of the problem -- and are wasting their votes.

      --
      -- Alastair
    7. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I disagree. In most of the previous recent elections, there was an okay candidate and a bad candidate. This time, there are two very bad candidates. Trump is probably slightly less bad in practice, because he has fewer Washington connections and most of Congress hates him, so he'll have worse policies but less chance of getting them through. Clinton has marginally less bad policies, but is sufficiently familiar with the Washington machine that she'll probably pass a lot of them.

      W wouldn't have been so bad if he hadn't been a Bush. If he'd not had the family connections with experience to help get things done, he'd probably have been an ineffectual and unmemorable president.

      Given that it's going to be bad whoever wins, you may as well vote for someone you actually want to win, in the hope that next time they'll seem electable enough that people will vote for them thinking that they might actually stand a chance.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If Trump gets in it will result in a lurch to the right, and the GOP will support the worst if his polices. He will screw things up internationally too.

      Hilary may not be great, but the potential for catastrophe is much lower.

      --
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    9. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Not necessarily. The right wing of the GOP might support him, though many of them hate him for other reasons (especially the Christian Right), but the moderates and the democrats won't. He doesn't have the diplomatic skills to persuade people who don't like him to go along with his policies. The rest of the world pretty much hates you anyway, so he can't make things much worse there.

      A few commentators have argued that Trump getting in would be better for the left, because it's likely to result in a backlash from the electorate and a swing back to an actual left-wing candidate, rather than a slightly-less-right candidate like Hilary next time around. In contrast, a successful Clinton presidency would just provide more support for the Democrat's slide to the right.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Given her track record: An increase in corporate power, more wars, and a big step up in the deployment of the surveillance state, coupled with a greater deduction in credibility for the left making it even harder to undo.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    11. Re:Powell can't bring himself to vote for Hillary by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 2

      Nonsense, you've got all kinds of choice: Gary Johnson, Jill Stein, Darrell Castle, write in somebody else, or just leave that space on the ballot blank.

      People who insist on holding their nose and voting for whichever of the two major party candidates they dislike least because they don't want to "waste their vote" are part of the problem -- and are wasting their votes.

      Under normal circumstances I would have agreed (and I have had voted for 3rd party candidates in the past.) But not now.

      See, I'm a naturalized US citizen that looks Mexican and who has had to face racism in more than one occasion, married to a permanent resident of Japanese origin, with a Muslim brother-in-law and many friends who are either Muslim or Muslim-looking as per the logic of angry wretches.

      And I'm staring at a vulgarian reincarnation of George Wallace promising religious tests, who claims an entire ethnic group is majoritarily composed of rapists and murders, who claims a US born judge is unable to perform his duties because of his ethnic background, and who was the king of birthers, going against the first African-American president of the US by attacking his very birth right.

      That political position you are making? Good for you. But because of who am I, and because of who people I care for are, it is something I cannot afford.

      No matter what, this is a crap-shot, an election of detestables. One way or another, the United States, by virtue (or lack thereof) of its constituency, it will get the leader it deserves. And that is a very sad statement of fact.

  2. Re:They're boring in a good way by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 5, Informative

    He refers to Hillary as "unbridled ambition, greedy, not transformational, with a husband still dicking bimbos at home." That didn't bore me at all!

  3. Summary Incomplete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The summary totally ignores Powell's extremely critical remarks about Hillary, her lies, manipulation, and the public exploitation of his name against his wishes.

    A lie of omission is still a lie, and that you choose to ignore these facts makes them all the more critical to examine.

    1. Re:Summary Incomplete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Are you f-ing kidding? Just go to Google News and search for "Colin Powell Hillary". CNN, The Wall Street Journal, etc are all reporting it. The problem is they are trumpeting his comments about Trump and doing everything can to bury his comments about Hillary while "documenting" them so they can fight off accusations of bias.

      Both candidates suck, terribly. But Hillary is "just" a walking summary of everything that's wrong with politics in the US. Trump, Trump is the kid from school that never realized that people are laughing at him, not with him. They're both egotistical narcissists but Hillary is a lying sociopath and Trump is an idiot. If I have to choose between the two I'm going to go with the sociopath.

      The problem here is that the US media (on both sides) has decided that their job is not to tell us the facts and let us decided, it's to decide what's best for us and guide us to the same conclusion. Trump is the backlash, he's the unwashed masses throwing up their collective adolescent middle fingers and fighting "the man". If they just do their f*cking jobs and just report the facts any reasonable person is going to realize that Trump is a disaster in a suit and while they may not like Hillary, she's the lesser of two evils.
       
        To be persuasive we must be believable; to be believable we must be credible; credible we must be truthful. - Edward R. Murrorw
        Objective journalism and an opinion column are about as similar as the Bible and Playboy magazine. - Walter Cronkite

    2. Re:Summary Incomplete by quantaman · · Score: 3, Informative

      The summary totally ignores Powell's extremely critical remarks about Hillary, her lies, manipulation, and the public exploitation of his name against his wishes.

      A lie of omission is still a lie, and that you choose to ignore these facts makes them all the more critical to examine.

      Funny, I didn't see him call her a liar. Here's the most critical remarks I found about her from the article:

      Mr. Powell lamented that while he respected Mrs. Clinton, he would “rather not have to vote for her,” describing the Democratic presidential nominee as having “a long track record, unbridled ambition, greedy, not transformational.”

      “H.R.C. could have killed this two years ago by merely telling everyone honestly what she had done and not tie me into it,” Mr. Powell wrote late last month, referring to Mrs. Clinton by her initials. “I told her staff three times not to try that gambit. I had to throw a mini-tantrum at a Hamptons party to get their attention. She keeps tripping into these ‘character’ minefields.”

      In December 2015, he told Condoleezza Rice, his successor at the State Department, that the Republican political attacks on Benghazi were “a stupid witch hunt” and wrote that “basic fault falls on a courageous ambassador who thought Libyans now love me and I am O.K. in this very vulnerable place.” He added that “blame also rests on his leaders and supporters back here,” including Mrs. Clinton.

      A few months later, in a discussion about Mrs. Clinton’s email scandal, Mr. Powell lamented that “everything H.R.C. touches she kind of screws up with hubris.”

      Oh, and of course his most critical remarks about Trump:

      Mr. Powell wrote last month that Mr. Trump is “his own best enemy” and added: “I will speak out when I feel it appropriate and not after every idiot thing he says.”

      “No need to debate it with you now, but Trump is a national disgrace and an international pariah,” Mr. Powell wrote in June, noting the criticism of Mr. Trump by several prominent conservatives. “He is in the process of destroying himself, no need for Dems to attack him.”

      “Yup, the whole birther movement was racist,” Mr. Powell wrote. “That’s what the 99% believe. When Trump couldn’t keep that up he said he also wanted to see if the certificate noted that he was a Muslim. As I have said before, ‘What if he was?’ Muslims are born as Americans everyday.”

      Mr. Powell dismissed as completely ineffective Mr. Trump’s recent attempts to reach out to black voters, saying that the Republican nominee “takes us for idiots.”

      “He can never overcome what he tried to do to Obama with his search for the birth certificate hoping to force Obama out of the presidency,” Mr. Powell wrote, saying to his aide, “You don’t fall for his false sincerity, I hope.”

      “He appeals to the worst angels of the G.O.P. nature and poor white folks,”

      So... are you sure you want the summary to go into his opinions on the candidates?

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      I stole this Sig
    3. Re:Summary Incomplete by Orgasmatron · · Score: 2

      Funny, I didn't see him call her a liar.

      Really? I see it.

      "H.R.C. could have killed this two years ago by merely telling everyone honestly what she had done and not tie me into it," Mr. Powell wrote late last month, referring to Mrs. Clinton by her initials. "I told her staff three times not to try that gambit. I had to throw a mini-tantrum at a Hamptons party to get their attention. She keeps tripping into these 'character' minefields."

      That last part is important. The first bold part, he says the she lied. The second bold part, he says that she knowingly and willfully lied. The third bold part, he says that she lies habitually.

      What noun means "a person who, knowingly and willfully, lies habitually"? liar

      --
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  4. The guy who.... by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The immediate result of the hack has been political fallout for Powell himself.

    The guy who has no political aspirations? Nah, he's untouchable politically because he has no ambition. He is like the Buddha of US politics: having no desires, he feels no pain at loss.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  5. Re: They're boring in a good way by amicusNYCL · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would be comfortable with Powell in charge. He always preferred diplomacy over a military solution, and he was not in favor of any military action that didn't serve the interests of the US. We could do a lot worse than that.

    --
    "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  6. Re:They're boring in a good way by dbreeze · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That's more than just tabloid material. It's indicative of the type of characters making decisions and taking actions on behalf of you and me. Guess who gets to pay the bill and clean up the mess when these types are done feeding their egos and wallets?

    --
    When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
  7. Re:Lifting candidates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...except that Trump will win because it will become known that
    Hillary is suffering from a serious, untreatable neurological condition
    (some suggest Parkinson's) and will be unable to perform the duties
    the Office of President of The United States requires. The large
    meds she's on to appear healthy during her campaign are going
    to cause her to crash and burn really bad (I don't wish her harm).
    She can't continue at the level of meds she's on for any period of
    time - Sunday was just the tip of the ice berg of what's ahead...

    CAP == 'faults'

  8. Re: They're boring in a good way by unixisc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, it was wrong intelligence. Or else, why did UK, run by a Left wing government run by Tony Blair, back that? They could easily have told the US that Iraq had nothing, and that would have worked, but everybody's intelligence agencies seemed to suggest that Saddam had chemical and/or biological weapons

  9. Re: They're boring in a good way by Boronx · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Did you watch it? His best evidence was a satellite picture of trucks leaving a building. He had no evidence, and he presented no evidence. To his credit, he at least didn't try to show any fake evidence. To his everlasting shame, he did make it sound like the evidence was damning. Your horse shit is just more on the pile.

  10. Re:Lifting candidates by networkBoy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm voting for Johnson.
    His campaign has basically become: Not Trump *or* Clinton

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  11. Re:Lifting candidates by unixisc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Uh, Trump is beating Hilary among Independents, even while trailing her overall. His biggest problem has been breaking past the 70% of Republicans - the RINO faction of the party - like people like Richard Armitage, Christie Todd Whitman, Susan Collins, et al have all thrown their lot behind Hilary. But if he can induce defections among Bernie supporters w/ things like his trade policies, as well as support from new mothers by Ivanka's childcare proposals yesterday, he can offset those GOP losses and give people like George Will, Jonah Goldberg, Steve Heyes, Charles Krauthammer, Megyn Kelly, Brit Hume, et al the finger

  12. Saddam and WMDs by unixisc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    A lot of countries opposed toppling Saddam - Russia, France, Saudi Arabia, et al. Why didn't they produce evidence that Iraq did not have WMDs? Truth is that Iraq wanted to put out the impression that it had WMDs as a deterrence to Iran, w/o having them. Instead, the US took those hints and took out their regime.

    FWIW, my only opposition to Saddam Hussein was his support to Hamas against Israel, and his $25k reward for each suicide bomber in Israel. I had nothing against his having WMDs or even using them (except against the Kurds). I had nothing against his annexing Kuwait, a completely useless country whose citizens have forgotten and who now commit Jihad acts against Americans, like the guy in Chattanooga. He was a useful deterrence to Iran, which is today a quasi superpower of the region. Now, the only obstacle to Iran's domination there is ISIS!!!

    1. Re:Saddam and WMDs by Boronx · · Score: 5, Informative

      They did produce evidence. The UN inspectors had free run of the country for several months prior to the war. In their own words, the US evidence was "shit". Of course they found no evidence of an ongoing weapons program, because there was none.

      In any case, the US never has produced any real evidence, before or after for their WMD claims.

      They had cryptic radio intercepts.
      They had satellite pictures of trucks leaving buildings.
      They had unknown chemical processing trucks (turned out to be hydrogen production. The design was known, but not by Powell.).
      They had aluminum tubes.

      For hard evidence, that's all they had.

    2. Re:Saddam and WMDs by dbIII · · Score: 4, Informative

      Why didn't they produce evidence that Iraq did not have WMDs

      Many did.
      One from Australia quit his intelligence job (preparing reports on Iraq) and ran for the Senate with the argument that Iraq did not have WMDs and the war was based on a lie. He was not just some Snowden but had served for twenty years reached the rank of lieutenant colonel and had also worked for Raytheon.
      He was in the Australian Senate for a few years and is in now Member of the Australian Parliament for Denison and his name is Andrew Wilkie.

  13. Re:Lifting candidates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I have seen no indication that independents are leaning Trumpward.

    None are so blind as those who will not see.

    Latest Quinnipiac poll has Independents going for Trump 45-40.
    Latest Reuters poll has Independents going for Trump 30-22.
    As a reminder, Romney won the independent vote in 2012 50-45. Boring, milquetoast Mitt. Independents were 29% of the electorate that year. Do you really think that the number of independents will go DOWN this year? After Trump won more primary votes than any other Republican in history? After the kind of excitement and craziness we've seen on both sides of the aisle? Get the fuck out.

    Yeah, there's going to be a landslide, alright. But its going to be completely opposite what you think.

  14. Re: They're boring in a good way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    To be fair, what evidence we do have suggests that intelligence services genuinely believed that at the time. They were wrong, but it was an honest mistake on their part.

    Saddam himself went far out of his way to make it look as if he had the weapons. It was his way of discouraging conflict - not only from the US, but also from the Kurds, the Iranians, and every other local faction that hated his guts (which was most of them). In the end it backfired spectacularly, but it might still have been his best chance for hanging on to power.

  15. Re: They're boring in a good way by MobyDisk · · Score: 4, Informative

    You asked "why?"

    why did UK, run by a Left wing government run by Tony Blair, back that?

    1. Because warhawks are warhawks, and allies are allies, regardless of party affiliation. After 9/11, Europe sympathized with the US.

    everybody's intelligence agencies seemed to suggest that Saddam had chemical and/or biological weapons

    2. Actually, the intelligence agencies didn't suggest this. The politicians claimed that the intelligence agencies said this, but they really didn't. The agencies don't really speak publicly, they speak through the elected officials that they report to. We now know that what they told the president and prime minister isn't the same as what the president and prime minister said publicly.

    For example: We now know that for example, at the time that George W. Bush gave a speech about the supposed "yellow cake uranium," that he knew it was falsified evidence but proceeded with the speech anyway. The UK did the same thing, leading up to the invasion, asking BBC reporters to basically make-up phony facts.

    If you look back at the evidence, it was clear that the evidence was being used to justify an already decided-upon conclusion. For example: The UK and US cited a shipment of aluminum tubes as evidence that Saddam Hussein was developing nuclear weapons. It turns out that the tubes were used for the much more mundane purpose of rockets. If you saw an aluminum tube that could be used for rockets or nuclear weapons, and you knew the country was developing rockets, why would you assert that these tubes are evidence of nuclear weapons? Certainly, it is possible. But they didn't present it as "well, it was probably used for rockets, but maybe it is for nukes (shrug)." It was presented as "OMG This is proof that they are developing nukes!" A lie of omission is still a lie.

    You asked "Why?" It is important to understand why. It is because well-intentioned people can sometimes lie to support what they believe is right. The populus and the media in particular, must be vigilant against such things. The New York times, has since, apologized for being the white house's mouthpiece.

  16. Re: They're boring in a good way by unixisc · · Score: 2

    Europe's 9/11 sympathies for the US expired once Operation Enduring Freedom was complete, and Hamid Karzai was installed as Afghanistan's president. In that atmosphere, Tony Blair too could have taken an anti-US position, particularly given that it was a Conservative administration in DC.

  17. Re: They're boring in a good way by unixisc · · Score: 2

    That's exactly what I was arguing. Saddam wanted to scare particularly Iran by making them believe that he had WMDs. While the Iranians probably knew that he was bluffing, they also played very smartly in letting the US overthrow him, knowing that any democratic replacement of that regime - like happened in Kabul - would result in the Shi'ites coming to power, and the Iranians getting a Shi'ite crescent by default.

  18. Re: They're boring in a good way by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, it was wrong intelligence. Or else, why did UK, run by a Left wing government run by Tony Blair, back that? They could easily have told the US that Iraq had nothing, and that would have worked, but everybody's intelligence agencies seemed to suggest that Saddam had chemical and/or biological weapons

    Read the damned Downing Street Memos
    The policy is to invade, and the intel is being fixed around the policy
    That's 2002. Seriously, brownnosing Bush won't help change the war crimes committed in our name.

  19. Re:Lifting candidates by amiga3D · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I haven't found many people that really like Hilliary although I have heard from a lot of people that say they will vote for her. I've heard more people that like Trump but there are still more that don't but say they will vote for him. So far it seems to me the one thing going for Trump is that he's not Hilliary. The number one thing going for Hilliary is that she's a Democrat. I know tons of people that would vote for Satan himself if he ran on the Democratic ticket.

  20. Re:Lifting candidates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The polls disagree with you. Since the incident where she was dragged away into her getaway van, her numbers dropped and Trump's went up.

    Guess it's time for Reuters to "tweak" their polling algorithms again so that Hillary appears ahead. Wouldn't want voters to get the wrong idea now, would we?

  21. Re:Lifting candidates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Establishment cronies, globalists, oligarchs, and sketchy millionaire career politicians are the ones coming out against him in droves and using their money to influence this election as hard as they can. Why do you think there's so many news outlets that act as cover for Hillary's crimes, failings, faux pas, and issues while at the same time mustering everything they've got against Trump for every insignificant issue under the sun, taking things out of context or just outright lying about him? We always thought the media was biased in the past, but it's now beyond any shadow of a doubt.

    If these people are against him, you know that means he's bad for their agenda. Their agenda is bad news for the average person.

    So do you vote Hillary and give these people even more power to get their way and rip you off? Or do you take your chances and vote for Trump?

  22. Re: They're boring in a good way by quantaman · · Score: 2

    No one in Germany thought so, and they actually HAD curveball and said he was both unreliable and most likely a fraud
    Meanwhile, Blix and Ritter BOTH told us the stories were a lie.
    Powell, like any apparatchnik, protected the boss and lied.

    They knew individual parts of the puzzle were a lie, they may not have realized the conclusion was also wrong.

    Saddam having an active WMD program (at least wrt chemical weapons) made a lot of sense. He'd used them before to protect himself from Iran and suppress internal dissident. He even hinted that he did have WMDs since he wanted to scare away the Iranians.

    My opinion at the time was three things.
    1) Saddam probably had a WMD program.
    2) Saddam was content to stay in Iraq and was not an imminent threat.
    3) The desire to invade Iraq had very little to do WMDs or an immediate terrorism threat and was more a desire to remake the middle east.

    --
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  23. Powell did not say who he was voting for by shanen · · Score: 2

    Your comment has a false subject. Powell has said he will not yet say who he is voting for.

    Your body is also highly questionable. I remember watching at least one speech in which Powell endorsed then-Senator Obama, but I don't remember anything that approximated "enthusiastic supporter". Nor do I recall any of the marks of enthusiasm such as actively campaigning for Obama or speaking at the Democratic convention. According to my research just now, Powell only made his endorsement two weeks before the election in 2008.

    One obvious lie and a highly questionable comment in such a short comment? Let me predict you are a Trump supporter, and in that case the only relevant question is "Who do you hate most?" Every Trump supporter I've met so far has been a deplorable hater, and I can only pity them. Maybe some of them can grow into less hate-filled people?

    Powell is a realist. His assessment of Hillary was not particularly favorable, though I'm not sure how they compare with his personal assessment of Obama. However, it is clear that his personal assessment of Trump is extremely negative. He personally might well prefer the positions of Johnson on many issues, but he knows America has a winner-take-all system, so I predict that he will ultimately endorse Hillary or say nothing.

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  24. Re:It's his own fault by dbIII · · Score: 2

    Since so many don't give a shit about his New York mob connections in the past why would they care about his funding from Russian banks run by mobsters now?

    If somebody had written a novel about this election a few years ago the editor would have thrown it at a wall and told the author never to darken the door again. A million unlikely things before breakfast. At least he's ditched the PR guy who also did the work for Russian fighters in Ukraine - hard to get a positive spin on shooting down civilian airliners.

  25. Re:Lifting candidates by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 2, Funny

    I know tons of people that would vote for Satan himself if he ran on the Democratic ticket.

    This is not unique to the Democrats. The exact same statement is certainly true of most Republican voters. I'd go so far as to suggest that Trump could have anal sex with Satan on TV and pledge his eternal allegiance to ISIS/Daesh/ISIL and he'd still win Texas. I can imagine Texas voters saying "I don't like it that he had sex with Satan and supports ISIS but I'm not voting for a Democrat". I've been to Texas recently. I have family that lives there. Yes, it really is like that. I estimate that as many as 80% of voters only care about whether the D or R is by a candidate's name and everything else is negotiable, but the only sources I could find that tried to track this kind of thing suggest that the percentage is actually around 60%. All I can say is that it seems higher to me.

  26. Re:Lifting candidates by tinkerton · · Score: 2

    I agree. I recall everyone making fun of him about his not knowing what Aleppo was. If you pay attention his attitude was that he could get by on general doctrinal thinking and didn't need the details: what would a libertarian think, and that happened not to be half bad (stay out), much better than most experts in my view.
    Of course the attitude of going on general principles and not requiring specifics has its problems, but also libertarian thinking is often isolationist and then one doesn't need to know much about the foreign situation.

  27. The problem w/ nation building by unixisc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The reason nation building worked post WWII was that the countries involved already had democratic traditions, and self criticism, while somewhat new, was something those countries were capable of. The US didn't sit down to write constitutions from scratch - as far as West Germany went, they sat down and put together the list of things that Germans could not do. Things like putting together a constitution was something that the West Germans did, and it was nothing similar to the Third Reich. Same w/ Italy - no semblance to the Mussolini regime that had been overthrown.

    That's a totally different situation from Afghanistan and Iraq. Like the mission of Operation Enduring Freedom was to topple the Taliban. What followed? The creation of a constitution in Afghanistan that states that no law shall contravene the rules of Sharia. So the same issues that one had in Afghanistan w/ the Taliban are just bound to return, and the only thing there is that the regime is not anti-US as the Taliban was. Spending billions on the reconstruction of Afghanistan to win 'hearts & minds' has bombed. How do you win the hearts & minds of people who have neither?

    In Iraq, Saddam was toppled, w/ the naïve assumption that the replacement regime would be a Jeffersonian democracy, w/ Shi'ites and Sunnites singing Kumbaya. It never happened, and the reason it can't happen is that those 2 have a historical rivalry dating back to after the death of Mohammed. Like the fable of the 4 geniuses who put together a lion w/o stopping to think that the revived lion would eat them (or Trump's narration of Al Wilson's song 'The Snake' at his rallies), none of the geniuses in either the State Department or outside it stopped to consider that if the Shi'ites came to power in Baghdad, you'd have a Shi'ite Crescent of Teheran, Baghdad, Damascus and partially Beirut (w/ Hizbullah).

    Allying w/ either side in this conflict - Shi'ite or Sunnite - is idiotic. None of them are our allies. While Obama deserves to be faulted for the Iran deal and a restrained policy towards Iranian boats taunting US Navy vessels in the Gulf, Bush too deserves to be faulted for regarding Saudi Arabia and Qatar as allies. The issue w/ Bush/Powell/Rice was that he saw them as 'people of faith', even though the faith in question is a barbaric one. Obama/Clinton/Kerry's problem is that when the Arab Spring started, they continued the Bush doctrine policies of 'promoting democracy' by supporting the Arab Spring, w/ disastrous results.

    What was worse was letting Qatar and Saudi Arabia guide their policy on Syria. Granted - Bashar al Assad was no saint, but he wasn't running a genocide in his country when it all started. If anything, he was trying to reform things so that opposition to his regime from the Sunnis would decrease. However, the Saudis and Qataris wanted to replace his regime w/ a Sunni one in Damascus, and tried to first get the US to agree, and then used the Arab Spring as a pretext to support it. It's not like they were clean either - Bahrein too wanted democracy, and Saudi troops marched in to prop up the Hanafas. Anyway, they all started supporting their own favorite factions - be it the Free Syrian Army, Khorasan, and so on, and plunged that country into civil war.

    The point I was making was that everyone who supported nation building, as well as getting rid of dictators and replacing them w/ whoever the people wanted, turned out to be wrong. The intervention in Libya, which was supported not just by Hilary & Obama but also by McCain and a whole bunch of Republicans across the board: they only turned on that policy once it turned south. This despite the fact that one of the few benefits of the Iraq war was Gadaffi voluntarily ending his WMD program, and doing what he could to restore relations w/ the West. Yeah, he was evil, but there was no reason to support his ouster when he was on a reformation trajectory. Now, Cyrenaica is completely under the control of ISIS, and Tripoli has a regim

  28. Re:Lifting candidates by Daetrin · · Score: 2

    I think both of you are over-attributing this to "voting for them because they're X" when it's more "voting for them because they're not Y".

    I don't particularly like Clinton. I don't think she's a crook or a serial murderer or any of the other crazy conspiracy theories, I just think she's a bit more conservative than i'd really like. But there's no way i'm going to help throw the election to Trump by voting for anyone other than the person who is most likely to defeat Trump.

    Until we get rid of the first past the post voting system voting either R or D says a lot more about who you _don't_ want to be president. (And voting for a third party says either that you (possibly mistakenly) believe your vote has 0% chance of making a difference or you really don't care who gets elected.)

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  29. Re:Lifting candidates by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

    My main problem with Johnson is he's pro-TPP.

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    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  30. Re:Lifting candidates by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well he's not wrong, about a month and a half ago Reuters changed their polling method because it was showing 3rd party candidates taking more from Hillary than Trump.

    The problem with polling in general is it is often used to influence the way people think rather than report on how they think. Many of the polling firms are marketing groups, not political scientists.

    The problem with polling this election is that every poll I've seen relies on the assumption that the turnout demographics in 2016 will be the same as they were in 2012 or 2008, but no one justifies this assumption. I find it hard to believe that blacks will come out for Hillary the way they came out for Obama. On the other hand the white working class hasn't had anyone speak to them about trade and immigration like Trump has in pretty much forever.

    I don't know what the turnout will be in November, so I can't "unskew" the polls. But since the pollsters never justify the fundamental premise of the polls, I can't trust them either. I would just take any poll numbers you see with a massive grain of salt.

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    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.