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US Regulators Issue Comprehensive Policy On Self-Driving Cars (vox.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Vox: On Monday, [The U.S. Department of Transportation] released a surprisingly far-reaching "Federal Automated Vehicles Policy." The policy attempts to do all sorts of things -- we'll get into the details below -- but the overarching motivation is that DOT wants to accelerate the development and adoption of AVs. DOT views AVs as a safety technology that could reduce some of the 38,000 traffic fatalities a year in the U.S., 95 percent of which are caused by human error. It also sees AVs as an accessibility technology that could provide personal transportation to whole populations (disabled, elderly, etc.) who have lacked it. The policy comes in four buckets: What the vehicles need to do to be safe; What federal and state governments need to do; How DOT will use its existing regulatory tools; DOT may need brand new regulatory tools to deal with AVs. The "vehicle performance" section lays out a 15-point safety assessment, so that AV developers and manufacturers know the sorts of things that federal regulators will expect. It covers everything from cybersecurity to data collection to crash response. And then there are "ethical considerations." AVs will have to make life-or-death decisions. The second section addresses the division of responsibilities and authorities between the federal government and state governments, and suggests a model policy that states can adapt for their own use. The feds will retain their authority to set and enforce safety standards, communicate with the public about safety, and occasionally issue guidances about how to meet national standards. States will retain their authority to license human drivers and register cars, set and enforce traffic laws, and regulate vehicle insurance and liability. There are three broad ways that DOT communicates about standards with automakers: letters of interpretation, exemptions and rule-makings. It is promising to speed up all of them in regard to HAVs. DOT is considering a range of new authorities that may be necessary to properly regulate HAVs. The report adds that "DOT has officially abandoned the NHTSA's own levels-of-automation classification in favor of SAE's, which is preferred by the industry. Vox has neat graphic you can view here. President Obama also wrote a piece about self-driving cars in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: "In the seven-and-a-half years of my presidency, self-driving cars have gone from sci-fi fantasy to an emerging reality with the potential to transform the way we live..."

25 of 239 comments (clear)

  1. It can't come soon enough... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...to save me and my family from all the "excellent drivers" who are busy on their phones while speeding down the freeway. Some of them, no doubt, posting diatribes about Big Government taking away their right to maintain complete and perfect control over their vehicle's performance.

    1. Re:It can't come soon enough... by Xtifr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I certainly would! Yes, in the rare and unlikely circumstance that there's a problem the autopilot can't deal with better than the human, that could be a problem, but I'm more than willing to play odds tilted massively in my favor.

      Yes, it might be even better if the human was paying attention and able to take over in an emergency. But we don't always get everything we want. Attentive autopilot and inattentive human is a great improvement over what we have now: frequently inattentive humans with no backup at all.

    2. Re:It can't come soon enough... by OzPeter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Would you rather they be busy on their phone and unable to take over from Autopilot?

      Status: Approaching area where human needs to manually control vehicle
      Action: Request Human take over!
      Status: Human not responding within required timeframe
      Action: Alert Human to take over (this time with feeling)
      Status: Human is still not responding
      Decision: Human is incapable of taking over control
      Action: Initiate Safe Stop and/or Safe Pullover to side of road
      Action: Alert Human fro third time
      Status: Human is still not responding
      Action: Initiate call to authorities - Human is likely incapacitated.

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    3. Re:It can't come soon enough... by OzPeter · · Score: 2

      Humans can handle driving down the freeway when everything is going right

      You've obviously never seen someone driving down the passing lane weaving from side to side (and crossing lane boundaries) all the while doing well under the speed limit. Yeah, sure .. things are going well for them chatting on their phone but they are an accident waiting to happen. They just have no clue as to the problems they are causing.

      Interestingly the Subaru Eyesight system has a mode for detecting side to side weaving in a lane.

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    4. Re:It can't come soon enough... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yes, why are we paying attention to arguments from people who rarely post, instead of turning to the true authorities on vehicle automation: people who spend all day on Slashdot?

    5. Re:It can't come soon enough... by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

      I'm not a snowflake! I'M A SPECIAL BUTTERFLY! [stomps (tiny) feet]

      --
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    6. Re:It can't come soon enough... by PrimaryConsult · · Score: 2

      Counterpoint: The Washington DC Metro, designed as automated from the beginning, has been in manual mode the last few years because they found issues in the automation system (they discovered that the system was "blind" to a train in a specific spot when another one rammed into it as if it wasn't even there).

      Also, why has automating pre-existing train systems been next to impossible? NYC has only one automated line.

      We really should walk before we can run... I would want to see flawless full automation of most train systems before trusting it on the road.

  2. Excellent! by H3lldr0p · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is one of the things needed to get this technology legal and on the road. And better, one of the government agencies in charge of seeing this happen has outlined a plan to get it to happen. Not just in terms of what the manufactures need to get done on their end to be legal but also an outline of the regulatory apparatus required to ensure the safety of everyone!

    I call this a win on just about every level.

    1. Re:Excellent! by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2

      This is one of the things needed to get this technology legal and on the road.

      Before getting this technology legal and on the road, perhaps we should focus on getting this technology? For the last five years I've been hearing that "Self-driving cars are here already", but sadly they aren't.

      --
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    2. Re:Excellent! by goose-incarnated · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is one of the things needed to get this technology legal and on the road.

      Before getting this technology legal and on the road, perhaps we should focus on getting this technology? For the last five years I've been hearing that "Self-driving cars are here already", but sadly they aren't.

      Okay now they are here.

      Where? I see driver-assist cars, but no self-driving cars. Even Tesla (and many of slashdot regulars) point out that "autopilot" doesn't mean that the car can drive itself.

      We've had the hardware to do self-driving cars for about 20 years now, and for the same amount of time very little progress was made on the software. We still don't have software that can drive a car in anything but perfect conditions, and even in perfect conditions they aren't able to do better than humans in perfect conditions.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    3. Re:Excellent! by bigpat · · Score: 2

      This is one of the things needed to get this technology legal and on the road.

      Before getting this technology legal and on the road, perhaps we should focus on getting this technology? For the last five years I've been hearing that "Self-driving cars are here already", but sadly they aren't.

      Okay now they are here.

      Where? I see driver-assist cars, but no self-driving cars.

      You mean available to purchase by consumers? Okay, not yet. But Uber is rolling out commercial service using self driving cars right now and multiple companies apparently have fully autonomous vehicles on the public roads now. And acedemic/research teams have had fully self driving cars for at least ten years.

      At least the Uber example has to be considered as commercial availability since this is one of the ways companies will offer self driving cars to the public, on a per trip basis. They are here.

  3. Re:Self-driving cars will never happen by fluffernutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm anticipating that all these automated car makers will start to complain about steep regulations, such as having to avoid children and animals running into the road and having to keep to a common reasonable driving speed.

    --
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  4. Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's insane even considering implementing beta technology when people's actual lives are at stake. I weep for my country and its rampant greed.

    1. Re:Insanity by pscottdv · · Score: 2

      So you want the government to invest in a technology that will *both* save huge numbers of lives *and* massively increase convenience? That seems antithetical to what government does.

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      this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice

    2. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Besides, every time a 17 year old gets in a car, we are experiencing beta technology.

  5. Will automated cars lift or stiffle the poor by mitgib · · Score: 2

    How many jobs will automated cars eliminate? Cabs and couriers are my first thought, large trucks provide millions of entry level jobs. I know automation will come one day, but are we just making more poor people.

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    1. Re:Will automated cars lift or stiffle the poor by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know automation will come one day, but are we just making more poor people.

      You're right! We should ban job-destroying things like this. And the cotton gin. Combine harvester. Railroads (do you even grasp how many teamster jobs were lost to the railroads??). Steamships. Fore-and-Aft-rigged sailing ships.

      All of those things cost jobs! Thousands to millions of them each! So we should roll things back to 1600's technology, and we wouldn't have so many poor, unemployed people!

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:Will automated cars lift or stiffle the poor by misexistentialist · · Score: 2

      Should be easier to live in their cars by programming them not to stay parked in one place at night.

    3. Re:Will automated cars lift or stiffle the poor by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      It's a matter of rate.

      Eliminating jobs slowly makes us richer because prices can't perfectly match inflation. Costs change unevenly between products, and inflation is hard to know; there's universal competition (Ugg boots versus iPhones: can you afford both? Which will make you fit in with the cool kids best?); and, to be historically reductionist, that's the way it's always worked largely because it's mathematically impossible for it to work any other way (how do you think we manage to buy more than just food and loincloths?). This is a continuous process, occurring constantly as we find ways to reduce costs: the only cost is labor.

      Because prices don't keep with inflation, we end up with more buying power. The median family has gone from spending 43% of its income on food (1900) to 30% (1950) to 11% (today), and now buys highly-engineered cars (anti-lock brakes, satellite radio, crumple zones, complex suspensions), cell phones, and high-speed internet as well as food. A cell phone in 1983 cost $4,000, and cell phone service was available for $50/week plus 42 cents per minute calling--in today's dollars, that's over $9,000 for the phone and $550/month to make 2 hours per week of voice calls (under 500 minutes--$9 on Ting). Most goods see an increase in price such that something costing $400 in 1983 will cost less than $900 today--meaning you started with $1,000 and spent $400 (40%), and now you have $2,250 and spend $600 (27%), and there's this $300 out of nowhere (16%) that you spend on other stuff.

      ... money is complex because you get more of it, and you get more stuff being bought with it, and those aren't tied in lock-step. 10% more stuff and 20% more money is inflation; and all that stuff might not all take exactly 10% less labor (thus relative cost) to make, so the prices aren't all relatively the same.

      So recovery from lost jobs takes time, meaning if you kill off jobs rapidly--by wealth-creating technical progress--you get an economic crisis of high unemployment. This is bad, as you've noticed. It not only creates tons of poor people all at once, but also strains the economy such that recovering new jobs is hard (jobs come from consumer spending: you have more buying power; you buy more things; someone has to make, ship, and retail those things. Wealth comes from getting more things per each of those someones, thus you pay less into their wages for each thing you buy).

      Here's the problem: what if technology matures, but regulation doesn't?

      Say we let all these self-driving cars, delivery drones, and whatnot reach a robust, mature state, capable of replacing tens of millions of American jobs. Meanwhile, Congress doesn't get around to telling us we can actually replace those tens of millions of jobs, so we're just hanging onto the tech. A few hundred thousand warehouse jobs get shifted out, but that's it.

      Then: Congress tells us to go wild.

      Instead of replacing 25 million jobs over 10 years, we replace 25 million jobs over 4 months.

      That's suddenly an extra 14.6% unemployment (20% unemployment total), and a drop in demand because these people suddenly aren't consumers. Eventually we settle on 30%-35% total unemployment. Recovery is slow in coming.

      If we get this up-front, it's only 1.5% unemployment generated per year. Initially, the new tech is kind of expensive, which isn't ideal (Marx thinks it is), but does mean you're replacing 10 jobs with 8 jobs at first (all those machinists and such), so that 1.5% unemployment is really more like 0.25% unemployment in year 1, reflected as like 70% unemployment in the pizza delivery driver industry (sorry, that's progress). On the other hand, pizza costs like $4 less, so we can all order 5% more pizzas, meaning pizza parlors hire more staff, filling some of the difference.

      So you eliminate 1.5% of jobs and create 1.25%, ending in 0.25% down. Then you eliminate 1.5% more and create 1.4%, ending in 0.35% down. Somewhere in the middle, you've gotten

    4. Re:Will automated cars lift or stiffle the poor by ThosLives · · Score: 2

      All those previous things you mentioned were technologies that greatly increased productivity - that is, they produced greatly more output with less input, so they had a significant effect of reducing cost of pretty much everything. This meant the temporary effects of job transitions were not as harsh, because there was an environment of increased standard of living.

      We aren't in a world like that any more - technology is not passing the results of increased productivity on to higher standards of living at the same rate to the people whose jobs got displaced* so the transient effect of disruptive technology is going to be more severe.

      *This is important - yes, people in "third world" countries are having their standards of living increased rapidly, but this is now at the expense of standard of living of people in the highly-developed nations. We just got out of a strange century or so where people were gaining standard of living without reducing others' standards of living.

      The potential for productivity increases for automated personal transport is low - we are so far along the curve of diminishing returns that it is costing society significant amounts for small gains in this industry, and when it comes to automotive safety, we are actually now probably spending more as a society (at least in the US) to eliminate one accident than that accident itself - even a fatal one - would cost society in terms of productivity.

      --
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  6. Re: It depends by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No. It is through proper private ownership of our property and our individual rights that we retain control over our technology. The state is the entity imposing draconian patent/copyright law as well as backing monopolies that prevents this (eg right to hack). In fact, the state is the biggest monopoly of all. They can and do legislate entire companies out of business whenever they encroach on its turf (eg what they're trying to do to uber and lyft). The state is also responsible for the emerging draconian surveillance society, with the relevant legislation often used as justification to further lock down technology.

    Who do you think will demand remote access to all of these vehicles? Do you think it will allow owners to remove whatever spy/malware vendors embed? Hell no. The liability nightmare makes private ownership of these cars nearly unaffordable. This gives both the vendors and the state unfettered access and control over freedom of movement. It's a mutually beneficial relationship at our expense.

    The wealthy cannot rule without a big and powerful state, as well as legions of twits like you who will happily vote to force your fellow citizens to fund their own oppression.

  7. Need Smart Roads, Too by DevsVult · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One area not mentioned, at least in Vox's summary of the new regulations, is smart road technologies. Here, sensors in and around roads would share information with automated vehicles, and possibly mediate information exchanges between vehicles. Once many of the vehicles on a road are talking to the road and each other, it becomes straightforward to: i) Route traffic around obstructions, efficiently merging cars into open lanes well before the point of obstruction. ii) Clear a path for emergency vehicles. iii) Spread traffic efficiently over available routes to clear or avoid congestion. iv) Organize "convoys" of vehicles going in similar directions to take advantage of drafting and traffic light priority. iv) Operate a marketplace in which vehicles can bid for access to express lanes or right-of-way. (Late for a crucial meeting? Pay other cars $5 each to pull out of the way.)

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    // DevsVult: The Machines Will It
  8. the elephant in the room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Self driving cars will spell an end to any shred of privacy.

    Today if you do not carry a cellular phone most cars do not "phone home" with data about your travels. Self driving cars will exist to collect as much data about you as possible and report back to Google or whomever.

  9. Re:data collection by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

    I will not buy one unless there is NO data broadcast off-vehicle.

    Deal breaker. A fully autonomous vehicle fleet will need constant communications with other autonomous vehicles. Just moving around in city interstate traffic, getting info from other vehicles will be a must. Imagine being in the far left lane when the Significant other calls to tell you that you need to pick up one of the children who got sick at school, and the exit is a mile away and you're in traffic. You'll need a way to change the programming quickly, and the car will have to negotiate with the other cars to allow you to move over quickly.

    Where we are right now, is the level of home heating/AC thermostat controls that are great if you never ever ever change your routines.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  10. Insufficient grease, vehicle unable to start by fyngyrz · · Score: 2

    This is the first issue I've ever contacted my congresswoman about and it's nice to see my pleas have evidently been ignored.

    Clearly you either forgot to include the check, or it was too small. I suggest you try again, but fix whichever of those errors you made.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.