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When Blind People Do Algebra, the Brain's Visual Areas Light Up (npr.org)

People born without sight appear to solve math problems using visual areas of the brain. NPR has a fascinating report on this: A functional MRI study of 17 people blind since birth found that areas of visual cortex became active when the participants were asked to solve algebra problems, a team from Johns Hopkins reports in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. "And as the equations get harder and harder, activity in these areas goes up in a blind person," says Marina Bedny, an author of the study and an assistant professor in the department of psychological and brain sciences at Johns Hopkins University. In 19 sighted people doing the same problems, visual areas of the brain showed no increase in activity. "That really suggests that yes, blind individuals appear to be doing math with their visual cortex," Bedny says. The findings, published online Friday, challenge the idea that brain tissue intended for one function is limited to tasks that are closely related.

69 comments

  1. Maybe.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    if they'd stop wasting that part of their brain on algebra they could see!

  2. GPU acceleration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    So they're using their GPU to accelerate math processing?
    Do they support CUDA or OpenCL?

    1. Re:GPU acceleration by fulldecent · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > Do they support CUDA or OpenCL?

      Is a question with serious ethical implications.

      --

      -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

    2. Re:GPU acceleration by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 5, Funny

      More importantly, can you stick a bunch of blind people in a room and get them to mine bitcoins?

      --
      "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    3. Re:GPU acceleration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My visual cortex is doing live folding@home!

    4. Re:GPU acceleration by RobertNotBob · · Score: 1

      "" challenge the idea that brain tissue intended for one function is limited to tasks that are closely related."" .. OR .. Algebra is closely related to sight. .. Jumping to conclusions is bad...mmmmkay?

      --
      ___ I don't respond to Anonymous Cowards, and I Never Mod them UP.
    5. Re:GPU acceleration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'd probably need Rainman. Just show him the numbers of the bitcoins that are valid and then let him figure out the pattern subconsciously.

    6. Re: GPU acceleration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think this is actually a good analogy.

      Graphics processors can be used to do math, it makes sense that the brain would repurpose nonfunctional areas for other things.

      Think about it, the brain has all these neurons capable of doing all these calculations to recognize objects rotated at various angles... It would make sense to repurpose them for something else if they aren't being used, for example because your optic nerve is fried and no visualnsensory input is coming to your brain.

      It's clear that the brain has this capability.

    7. Re:GPU acceleration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't tell the crypto anarchists, they'll try!

    8. Re:GPU acceleration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to add some people with Alzheimer's to make it 2012 again too.

    9. Re: GPU acceleration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +10 if I wasn't an AC.
      It's good to know we have a GPU inside our brain.

    10. Re:GPU acceleration by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      You'd probably need Rainman. Just show him the numbers

      But if he's a blind version of Rainman, how will you show him the numbers?

    11. Re: GPU acceleration by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's wrong with upvoting ACs who post good comments?

  3. I call nonsense on their conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Algebra calls for pattern recognition... and the visual cortex is VERY good at pattern recognition.

    1. Re:I call nonsense on their conclusion. by fishscene · · Score: 1
      Conclusion: "That really suggests that yes, blind individuals appear to be doing math with their visual cortex,"

      Algebra calls for pattern recognition... and the visual cortex is VERY good at pattern recognition.

      uhh..? You called nonsense on their conclusion, then basically restated their conclusion.

    2. Re:I call nonsense on their conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He probably meant to call nonsense on the summary which says "challenge the idea that brain tissue intended for one function is limited to tasks that are closely related."
      The summary leaves it open who claimed that part though.

    3. Re: I call nonsense on their conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No , i think he was just being a typical contrarian.

    4. Re:I call nonsense on their conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe the conclusion too. I learned long ago to unlock the geometry engine in the brain (I don't know *where* it is and I have my own name for everything) from its normal job of 3D projection for solving Chess puzzles.

    5. Re: I call nonsense on their conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No , i think he was just being a typical contrarian.

      Now you're just being an asshole. :P

    6. Re:I call nonsense on their conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "challenge the idea that brain tissue intended for one function is limited to tasks that are closely related" is flat out wrong. The visual cortex IS pattern recognition. So the sentence is wrong - Algebra is not just "closely related" but identical.

  4. We already knew this. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    Blind people use the visual cortex for things like echo-location, etc., as well as to "visualize" the layout of their surroundings, which makes sense - the visual cortex is for spatial relationships. Changing the input source shouldn't make much of a difference - it's not like the brain isn't somewhat plastic.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:We already knew this. by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      "Blind people use the visual cortex for things like echo-location, etc"

      Batman would be OK if he went blind then.

      (yes, I have read about a handful of blind, and sighted, people who have learnt to maneuver using echo-location).

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    2. Re:We already knew this. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is always fun to make them walk around wearing ear plugs, and watch them bump into things.

    3. Re:We already knew this. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
      Echo-navigation is common for blind kids - some of them even discover it on their own. Others can quickly learn it.

      Echolocation is a natural practice for any youngster with a visual impairment. Children will often walk into a new space or new room and stomp their feet or yell, seemingly out of the blue. What they are really doing is perceiving a change in the "soundscape" or the echoes that the room produces. Young children, without being trained, can easily tell if they are indoors, outdoors, in a large empty room or a small furnished room, etc. simply by listening to the echoes or "reverberations" of that particular space.

      The "skill" of echolocation has not generally been taught in regimented training. It is instead used subconsciously to gain a small amount of information about one's environment. However, with more research and more people willing to try, echolocation is becoming far more accepted and understood by practitioners and trainers. It can give the user information about distant objects, materials, shapes, and movement of objects without having to physically interact with them via a cane. It allows the blind to "sight-see" and enjoy trees, statues, architecture and more.

      It's no big deal, really. Even sighted people can tell without looking, just by making a click with their tongue, whether they're in a small room, a hall, or outside.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    4. Re:We already knew this. by mlheur · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure sighted people use the same part of the brain to process maths. Ever hear of people who associate numbers with colours?
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  5. I love by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    group theory

  6. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fMRI has been debunked over and over again. Stop wasting money and time on this bullshit.

    1. Re:Bullshit by mark-t · · Score: 2

      No, it has not. It was shown fairly recently that a certain fairly common statistical error in the software could mislocate whet activity is occurring and perhaps as much as 10% of the some 40,000 or so research papers in existence that use results from fmri as the basis for a conclusion may in fact be faulty. However, the premise behind fmri is still entirely valid, and software bugs notwithstanding is continually getting better.

    2. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they did a study linking political beliefs of researchers against those 10% of papers chances are 99%+ would be liberals and the papers would be reinforcing their ideologies.

    3. Re:Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You plainly have no idea whatsoever about the process of academic research. That's OK, but please stop acting like you think you do.

    4. Re:Bullshit by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I don't think any such study has been performed... perhaps you should get on that yourself, since it seems to interest you so much as to bring political stance into a matter where it had not previously been brought up.

      Of course, if you'd rather just make shit up because doing actual research to support your opinions is too hard, at least everyone should know what to think of what you just said.

    5. Re:Bullshit by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      I don't think any such study has been performed...

      Oh really?

      Obviously it is easy to claim other people are making stuff up, when you can't be bothered to search for it.

      It was even reported here on /. just a couple of months ago.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    6. Re:Bullshit by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Damn, where is the delete button, when you need it?

      I was mislead by the way posts are hidden. My apologies to Mark-t.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    7. Re:Bullshit by mark-t · · Score: 2

      No worries... I realized as soon as I as your lmgtfy link what the misunderstanding was.

      The report by the PNAS that said that fmri reports are invalidwas actually retracted shortly thereafter as they realized that the flaw was within a software bug that would not affect all of the results in the same way:

      However, there is one number I regret [announcing publicy]: 40,000. In trying to refer to the importance of the fMRI discipline, we used an estimate of the entire fMRI literature as number of studies impinged by our findings. In our defense, we found problems with cluster size inference in general (severe for P=0.01 CDT, biased for P=0.001), the dominant inference method, suggesting the majority of the literature was affected. The number in the impact statement, however, has been picked up by popular press and fed a small twitterstorm. Hence, I feel it's my duty to make at least a rough estimate of "How many articles does our work affect?". I'm not a bibliometrician, and this really a rough-and-ready exercise, but it hopefully gives a sense of the order of magnitude of the problem.

      The analysis code (in Matlab) is laid out below, but here is the skinny: Based on some reasonable probabilistic computations, but perhaps fragile samples of the literature, I estimate about 15,000 papers use cluster size inference with correction for multiple testing; of these, around 3,500 use a CDT of P=0.01. 3,500 is about 9% of the entire literature, or perhaps more usefully, 11% of papers containing original data. (Of course some of these 15,000 or 3,500 might use nonparametric inference, but it's unfortunately rare for fMRI -- in contrast, it's the default inference tool for structural VBM/DTI analyses in FSL).

      I frankly thought this number would be higher, but didn't realise the large proportion of studies that never used any sort of multiple testing correction. (Can't have inflated corrected significances if you don't correct!). These calculations suggest 13,000 papers used no multiple testing correction. Of course some of these may be using regions of interest or sub-volume analyses, but it's a scant few (i.e. clinical trial style outcome) that have absolutely no multiplicity at all. Our paper isn't directly about this group, but for publications that used the folk multiple testing correction, P10, our paper shows this approach has familywise error rates well in excess of 50%.

      So, are we saying 3,500 papers are "wrong"? It depends. Our results suggest CDT P=0.01 results have inflated P-values, but each study must be examined... if the effects are really strong, it likely doesn't matter if the P-values are biased, and the scientific inference will remain unchanged. But if the effects are really weak, then the results might indeed be consistent with noise. And, what about those 13,000 papers with no correction, especially common in the earlier literature? No, they shouldn't be discarded out of hand either, but a particularly jaded eye is needed for those works, especially when comparing them to new references with improved methodological standards.

      So in fact, all that the study that found the software bug proved is that we need to double-check findings when they are made by a computer.... it doesn't mean that the findings are wrong, only that we should be rightly skeptical. Further, it means that fmri studies done *since* this discovery are actually more likely to have correct conclusions than ever before.

  7. What happens when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blind men get their hands on some titties?

  8. EYESIGHT TO THE BLIND! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His eyes react to light - the dials detect it!

  9. Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When I was figuring out how differential equations work I found I understood it better visualizing it in my head instead of just doing the math on a calculator.

    1. Re:Perhaps... by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      I am curious if you compared with normal population. Determine if they are Visual, Auditory, Tactile learners, Have them do the work, and see what parts of the brain they use, and compare that against the blind person.

      Just because they are blind, it doesn't mean that they cannot be a Visual Learner. It is just harder for them because they don't get the visual stimula.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I highly doubt I compare with the normal population. I've been told by some highly professional experts that I have an analytical mind, and was extremely intelligent even though I didn't get a higher education after high school. The same professionals said most people are idiots, which I can agree with after some observation.

    3. Re:Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I too solved problems in my head by some sort of limited visualization. I sort of saw the numbers in my head. It only worked for simplish math, adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing up to three digit numbers...after that I had to keep notes on paper so I didn't forget already calculated values.

    4. Re:Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am curious if you compared with normal population. Determine if they are Visual, Auditory, Tactile learners, Have them do the work, and see what parts of the brain they use, and compare that against the blind person.

      Gosh, why didn't the researchers think of doing that? Oh wait, they did. Maybe next time RTFA.

      A functional MRI study of 17 people blind since birth found that areas of visual cortex became active when the participants were asked to solve algebra problems, a team from Johns Hopkins reports in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

      "And as the equations get harder and harder, activity in these areas goes up in a blind person," says Marina Bedny, an author of the study and an assistant professor in the department of psychological and brain sciences at Johns Hopkins University.

      In 19 sighted people doing the same problems, visual areas of the brain showed no increase in activity.

    5. Re:Perhaps... by Ginguin · · Score: 1

      If we really want to get serious, let's talk about the scientific evidence behind the idea that there is a difference between "Visual, Auditory, Tactile learners". To my knowledge, there is none when it comes to learning. At least, there is no serious evidence supporting the existence of learning styles in a meaningful way.

      People do differ in their abilities within certain domains, but they do not learn better if taught in that domain. People learn better when the content drives which modality dominates the training, not their quote, preferred learning style, unquote.

      As an instructional designer, this (and other commonly shared, unsupported training myths) tends to get my knickers in a twist.

      --
      "Anything you say can and will be used against you in a targeted advertisement" - Adam Harvey
    6. Re:Perhaps... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      most people are idiots

      Simple Statistical analysis*: Think about how stupid the average** person is. Now realize that 1/2 the people are even more stupid than this.

      *It is a joke, don't ruin it
      **Average being statistical median, for the pedantic people who would ruin the joke anyways.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    7. Re:Perhaps... by Bengie · · Score: 2

      I visualize all kinds of logical problems, which conflicts with my navigational abilities. I have a hard time thinking and walking. Sometimes my balance is thrown off because what I'm "seeing" and what I'm feeling don't match. I would not describe what I see as normal 3d images. I see "n dimensional" images where "n" is the number of variables.

      If I'm thinking really hard, even my hearing and touch gets hijacked and I can experience strange sensations. An example would be when thinking about how network flows interfere with each other. The rate of packets being sent can be thought of as "sound", then all of the "sound frequencies" of the network flows converge on a single point, and then I visualize the resulting sound of these overlapping frequencies and can "see" where peaks get too spiky, resulting in jitter or packetloss. I've done this several times when trying to visualize why I was getting incredibly rare transient packetloss. Effectively microbusts of roughly synchronized senders. Where the "n" dimensional comes in is I can see multiple versions of these at the same time, like many steady flows, many starting flows, etc etc. I can think of the corner cases ahead of time and see all of these cases concurrently without having to rethink of the issue for each case.

      I just used networking as an example, but i'm a programmer and do this same thing to pretty much all problems.

    8. Re:Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Forgot to add. It wasn't just suspecting microbursts, but coming up with a model that described the problem, then using that mental model to "search" for what kind of situations would cause our current system design to express the rare behavior.

    9. Re:Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are they even more stupider?

    10. Re:Perhaps... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the stupid and idiot labels might be wrong. Perhaps the correct term should be oblivious.

    11. Re:Perhaps... by yes-but-no · · Score: 1

      Seems u hv developed dedicated hardware (neuron complex) to do fourier decomposition of a signal. That is given a function f, find a way to decompose/construct back f using fundamental frequencies. Essentially a way to decompose a complex object to its fundamental orthogonal building blocks; like say factor a number into its prime factors (fundamental theorem of arithmetic) or decompose a music piece into the notes/structure of notes; spoken language to basic phonemes [compressions like jpeg/mp3 work the same way.. keep the important n drop the fluff]. It's like finding the basis-set in linear algebra and figuring out their linear combination to get any given vector. I think you should be able to use this to do some cool things like very rapid learning of a new language/art (like singing or dance or any other art form) because all these involved finding the fundamental basis set and just doing linear combination of these.

  10. That's not the surprise by davidwr · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised it's not lighting up for everyone.

    Then again, maybe it is too busy processing input from the optic nerves so the brain had to use some other area to do the algebra.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:That's not the surprise by omnichad · · Score: 2

      They're not saying it's not lighting up for everyone. They're saying that there's no increase in visual cortex activity. I find that if I'm sitting and thinking about a complex math or visual-spatial problem, I stop seeing somewhat. I'm just unable to notice what's going on around me. It's likely that sighted people are just reducing their real-world visual processing to make way for the other computation.

  11. Knew a math professor without eyes ... by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 1

    Back in the 1970s I was an undergraduate at a highly-ranked math department. One of the professors there had no eyes. (It was a birth defect - they had not formed, and his face was slightly collapsed where they should have been.)

    When a student would try to skip doing some part of a rigorous proof by substituting a geometric drawing, the other profs would ask "How would you explain it to [him]?".

    This guy was VERY good. But he had a "blind spot" occasionally when a graphic analogy would have pointed him to some existing proof that would apply. (I recall once when he was discussing some bottleneck in what he was working on and another professor pointed out that the troublesome piece of the problem was equivalent to an angle trisection with compass and ruler.)

    --
    Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
    1. Re:Knew a math professor without eyes ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah but angle trisection with compass, ruler, and paper has been done.

    2. Re:Knew a math professor without eyes ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ah but angle trisection with compass, ruler, and paper has been done.

      Alas, the margin of this comment was too small to give the proof for arbitrary angles!

  12. Needs to be Debugged by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So they're using their GPU to accelerate math processing?

    Perhaps, or perhaps not. Given the usual submission to publication lead times on journals I suspect they have some debugging to do.

    1. Re:Needs to be Debugged by paavo512 · · Score: 1

      oops, reverting accidental moderation

  13. hoje é feriado! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    bah! por isso aquela merda da helena tava passando de carro na frente da minha casa de madrugada... pra comprar cocaína e oferecer a buceta fudida dela. caralho... essa é a primeira buceta open source que eu já vi hehehehe

  14. Not just math, all interpretation tasks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Studies of the congenitally blind show that the visual cortex is in use while reading braille, too.

    Note that this means that the visual cortex is no longer used to "see" -- electrode stimulation of the visual cortex in the congenitally blind results in no phosphenes.

  15. Latest fMRI patch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A bug in fMRI software could invalidate 15 years of brain research

    Let's hope this study used the latest patch?

  16. visual counterexamples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In grad school I had quite a reputation (often being referred to as "the counterexample machine") for producing counterexamples to answer questions as to whether a given proposition was true. These solutions almost always came to me visually.

  17. Mental visualizations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is an old idea that the visual cortex involved when we visualize past experiences or memorized material.

    In the blind subjects, perhaps, this activity has been registered as a distinct, while in the control group it is drowned in the noise of normally functioning visual cortex.

    So, it is interesting but inconclusive.

  18. One ticket to Hell, please by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    That really suggests that yes, blind individuals appear to be doing math with their visual cortex

    Well, it doesn't have anything else better to do.

  19. so... by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    Since their visual cortex is now reassigned to other functions like solving algebra, I wonder what they would see if they suddenly got their sight back?

  20. Would they shave with a lobster? by TomR+teh+Pirate · · Score: 1

    That's how Ron Burgundy rolls.

  21. I'm not blind but by dhaen · · Score: 1
    Even though it's a long long time ago, I can still remember learning algebra at school. I could mostly "see" the answers by looking at the questions. When asked to show my workings, I was often at a loss, and suspected of cheating. This took me just as far as quadratics when I had to start doing things the laborious way. I wonder whether my visual cortex was at work - because -

    I've had a life-long interest in writing systems. IMO Japanese being the most complex and Georgian the most beautiful.

    BTW I HATE emoji but I love unicode.

  22. Old news by Sumus+Semper+Una · · Score: 1

    Unless this article is mistaken, this sounds like an extension of a known phenomenon. And I can't remember where I read it, but I also remember reading another article years ago theorizing that in some cases this effect could be the brain sort of "redistributing" its load to areas that are underutilized and can handle it. There was no proof, but I thought it was an interesting theory.

    In short, just because you don't have a functioning sensory organ, that doesn't mean the brain will completely stop using the main area the organ would have used to interpret its input.

  23. Unsurprising by maiden_taiwan · · Score: 2

    Neuroscientists have known for years that the brain has few "dedicated" areas for any particular function, such as math. Instead, many collections of neurons can accomplish the same function. This is called degeneracy. (Terrible name, I know... let the jokes about degenerate mathematicians begin....)

    Also, the brain doesn't "light up" as if were sitting around idle and suddenly leaps into action. The whole brain is active all the time. This is called intrinsic brain activity.

    Anyone who talks about brain areas "lighting up," or believes that each region of the brain has a dedicated function, is at least a decade behind modern neuroscience.

    1. Re:Unsurprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sighted people also do math with their visual cortex. You can only juggle a small number of concepts simultaneously in the brain, which is why mathematicians interact with notation on paper or a whiteboard. The same thing goes for designers sketching on paper. So sighted people could not do non-trivial maths without vision. So yes this research result isn't surprising.

    2. Re:Unsurprising by maiden_taiwan · · Score: 1

      Actually, people do math (and most everything else) with their entire brain. Visual cortex isn't just for vision either: it helps to process audio. Likewise auditory cortex helps to process vision. Both of them assist with other signals from body to brain (known as interoception). Just about every neuron in the brain participates in more than one function. (Note: This this is not the same thing as saying "all neurons are identical." That's false. But any given neuron participates in more than one kind of mental state.)

  24. Listening with eyes closed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many musicians, myself included, claim to hear better with their eyes closed. I've long thought it was the same thing; that the visual processing circuitry of my brain is freed up to listen to the music when my eyes are closed. I listen better, and comprehend better. Wonder if they've collected any data from musicians?

    dpa