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Apple Loses Patent Retrial To VirnetX, Owes $302.4 Million (reuters.com)

Slashdot reader chasm22 quotes Reuters: A federal jury in Texas on Friday night ordered Apple Inc to pay more than $302 million in damages for using VirnetX Holding Corp's patented internet security technology without permission in features including its FaceTime video conferencing application. The verdict came in a new trial in Tyler, Texas that had been ordered by the judge in the case, Robert Schroeder, who last August threw out VirnetX's $625.6 million win over Apple from a previous trial because he said jurors in that case may have been confused...

A jury in 2012 awarded $368.2 million in damages, but the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in Washington, D.C., partly overturned that verdict, saying there were problems with how the trial judge instructed jurors on calculating damages. On remand, VirnetX's two suits were combined, and in February, a jury returned with an even bigger verdict, $625.6 million, one of the highest ever in a U.S. patent case... However, Schroeder later voided the result, saying that the repeated references to the earlier case could have confused jurors and were unfair to Apple... Apple will also have to contend with the trial in a second lawsuit VirnetX filed against Apple over newer versions of Apple security features, as well as its iMessage application.

The article points out that "Many patent cases are handled in the Texas court, which has a reputation for awarding favorable verdicts to plaintiffs alleging infringement."

64 comments

  1. Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Live by the sword, reap what you die by the soweth.

    1. Re:Irony by sittingnut · · Score: 1

      Irony

      Live by the sword, reap what you die by the soweth.

      rounded corners bites back!
      somebody should patent rounded corners that bites.

    2. Re:Irony by HBI · · Score: 1

      That is one of the worst mixed metaphors I have ever seen in English. You should write a novel and challenge Amanda McKittrick Ros.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    3. Re:Irony by DavidRavenMoon · · Score: 0
      Clearly you don't understand how design patents work. Samsung did, but they admitted to stealing the look of the iPhone. Look at their phones before the iPhone. They copied Blackberry!

      But it's OK. Apple make this money back in about an hour.

      --
      -- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
    4. Re:Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i expect by charging you more for a headphone adapter

    5. Re:Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Samsung didn't admit Jack. As for the phones before the iPhone, well, the LG Prada was the first phone with a capacitive screen. So, Apple really copied LG. But it's OK, LG ain't going to sue Apple's ass.

    6. Re:Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False! Apple copied Sony. They had the blueprints in court for the Samsung case. Apple threw away their own mobile designs once they saw what Sony were doing. Apple are totally reliant on Samsung, LG and Sony. If these real R&D electronics companies do not invent something, Apple cannot select it from a catalog and use it in the iThing += 1. The fact the judge would not allow the Sony blueprints to make it into court records for "appearing too late" is the farce. It was the smoking gun that Apple have lied from day one about their mobile devices. Very very strange they were covered up despite the massive ramifications for Apple's image as an innovator.

    7. Re:Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact the judge would not allow the Sony blueprints to make it into court records for "appearing too late" is the farce.

      Except that's not what actually happened

  2. Abolish patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've concluded that abolishing parents is the only way to truly solve the problem. The patent office has no ability to adequately review patents, so there are far too many trivial patents. Add to it that those who actually do research often sell their patents, meaning that the owners aren't doing research or production at all. The only solution here is to completely abolish patents.

    1. Re:Abolish patents by lucm · · Score: 2

      This is a real patent and Apple was aware of it. They just assumed they could crush the patent holder and get away with it if it went to court because they have deeper pockets. This isn't a unique situation; Nintendo also does that frequently, and Microsoft used to.

      After the whole Samsung debacle Apple can hardly play the offended virgin about patents. It's like politicians who ask for a different electoral process when they,re afraid to lose an election but say nothing when they win (ex: Obama).

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    2. Re: Abolish patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple knew about these patents because they tried to a software patent for the same ideas but found out it was already patented.

      If Apple wants to use software patents against others, then others can use them against Apple.

    3. Re: Abolish patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry mum and dad, this guy says you gotta go. We had some good times.

    4. Re:Abolish patents by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      I've concluded that abolishing parents is the only way to truly solve the problem.

      Then you'd be back to trade secrets, or possibly {big evil corp} stealing {little guy}'s idea and profiting off it before {little guy} could.
      The point of patents was to promote sharing information in exchange for temporary exclusivity. However, over time, Corporations have forgotten about that "temporary" part. That's the part that needs changing

    5. Re:Abolish patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've concluded that abolishing parents is the only way to truly solve the problem.

      Then you'd be back to trade secrets, or possibly {big evil corp} stealing {little guy}'s idea and profiting off it before {little guy} could.
      The point of patents was to promote sharing information in exchange for temporary exclusivity. However, over time, Corporations have forgotten about that "temporary" part. That's the part that needs changing

      Patents ARE temporary, it's the litigation that lasts forever.

      Seriously, the whole point of the patent system is to make money for government and lawyers. They have to allow third parties to make some as well in order to "justify" it. Smoke and mirrors.

      In the case, like so many others, the patent is completely bogus. Any competent professional that was trying to solve the same problem would have come up with the same set of obvious solutions: the patent fails the "novel and not obvious test". We have huge numbers of competent professionals, but they don't work for the patent office. The League for Programming Freedom has a good position paper that discusses this and other issues.

      The legal ethics issues with patents and the patent system, of course, are another matter entirely - but they've also been discussed at length on this forum. The US government has lots of ethics problems at the upper levels - which determine policy, at least for those unfamiliar with Nuremberg - and US legal system is riddled with legal ethics problems which the US legal profession chooses to ignore (the practice of law would be a lot less lucrative if the lawyers had to pay serious attention to ethics issues, instead of just pretending to do so). This state of affairs obviously can not continue forever. We live in interesting times.

  3. The Rich don't pay taxes during Clinton presidency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An interesting situation unfolding..

  4. Light on tech details as usual by Crashmarik · · Score: 3, Informative

    From what is there, this looks like a pretty reasonable verdict. Apple infringed on four patents held by the plaintiff and got their heads handed to them.

    May very well be one of those cases where the patent system works correctly. Given Apples past bad actions it's a shame the original verdict wasn't upheld

    1. Re: Light on tech details as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and Linux infringed upon SCO's intellectual property rights, too. Why is it okay to do so sometimes (when it's Linux) but not other times (when it's Apple)? SCO's intellectual property was every bit as legitimate as VirnetX's.

    2. Re: Light on tech details as usual by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Darl? Still butt hurt?

      You know SCO never owned what they claimed to own. Settled case. Now fuckoff and die Darl.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re: Light on tech details as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? I guess I missed the judgement saying SCO was right.

    4. Re:Light on tech details as usual by amiga3D · · Score: 0

      302 million for Apple is like me reaching in my pants pocket and pulling out $1.55 in change.

    5. Re:Light on tech details as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From what is there, this looks like a pretty reasonable verdict. Apple infringed on four patents held by the plaintiff and got their heads handed to them.

      May very well be one of those cases where the patent system works correctly. Given Apples past bad actions it's a shame the original verdict wasn't upheld

      VirnetX Holding Corp is a patent troll company, to the core. The patent system is being abused in this case, and is not working.

    6. Re: Light on tech details as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's so easy to troll Linux fanboys.

    7. Re:Light on tech details as usual by tomxor · · Score: 1

      You guys are weird... putting pockets on your pants. Over here we put pockets in out trousers you insensitive clod.

    8. Re:Light on tech details as usual by amiga3D · · Score: 1

      Some of us wear overalls.

    9. Re: Light on tech details as usual by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      > Linux infringed upon SCO's intellectual property rights, too.

      Exactly _which_ imaginary property was that?

    10. Re:Light on tech details as usual by DavidRavenMoon · · Score: 2

      This holding company doesn't make any products. This wasn't even their patents. They are a well known patent troll.

      --
      -- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
    11. Re: Light on tech details as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is so easy to be an idiotic troll. Yeay! Trolls Suck!

    12. Re:Light on tech details as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that how apple will make the money back. By reaching into your pocket. You dont think they will use their off shore tax sheltered money do you?

    13. Re:Light on tech details as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've always wanted to buy an "out trouser". Are they available on Amazon UK?

    14. Re:Light on tech details as usual by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you kidding me? You're praising a non practicing entity. These alleged patent infringements are not good for anyone whether it is Apple or Microsoft or Google or even you (unless you are patent attorney in East Texas). Yes, the aforementioned companies are occasionally bad actors with their IP chests. But, at the least we can say they actually make products that employ said patents. A patent troll only serves to inhibit and leech from others.

    15. Re:Light on tech details as usual by Crashmarik · · Score: 0

      So ?

      For the sake of argument lets say you come up with a new encryption system
      You can raise the cash to get a patent on the technique and all the obvious related patents, so you actually have a strong lock on your invention.
      Now you are 20-50 grand in the hole and you need someway to make money off of it.

      What do you do ?

      Well you can start writing new encryption libraries and hope you can sell the tools for a reasonable amount, problem you are already in the hole and this will put you further in.

      Or you can sell your patent hopefully getting a good price for it.

    16. Re:Light on tech details as usual by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Non practicing entities can be good for the non practicing inventor.

  5. Appeal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Appeal again! Keep doing it til one party runs out of money. That's how justice works, right?

    1. Re: Appeal! by easyTree · · Score: 1

      No, it's until the innocent but poor guy runs out of money or gives up before trial due to the disparity between the ideal of justice and the available outcomes.

    2. Re:Appeal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      thats how apple works

    3. Re:Appeal! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, Beaver, that's exactly how American justice works.

  6. One thing makes this totally suspect by oldgraybeard · · Score: 3, Informative

    I am not a big Apple supporter and I think our patent system is corrupt and totally broken.

    But this smells, isn't this being adjudicated in the Eastern District of Texas the center of all that screams PATENT TROLL!

    1. Re:One thing makes this totally suspect by Kjella · · Score: 2

      I am not a big Apple supporter and I think our patent system is corrupt and totally broken. But this smells, isn't this being adjudicated in the Eastern District of Texas the center of all that screams PATENT TROLL!

      Unfortunately its reputation for being pro-patent is now so known almost everybody files there. The jurisdiction shopping is starting to be a little ridiculous, perhaps they should make a rule that if you sue for over five million dollars (i.e. travel costs are insignificant) there's no longer a free choice of venue, instead you both submit a ranking and go down the list until you find one in common. So the plaintiff would rank Eastern Texas first, the defendant last and they'd instead meet somewhere in the middle. That would cut down on the patent trolling quite a bit, I think.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:One thing makes this totally suspect by Pikoro · · Score: 1

      The judge who hears most of these cases is the same guy. And his son is a patent lawyer who takes the cases of the patent trolls. You wonder why they all file in East Texas? It's all about dad making money for his family.

      --
      "Freedom in the USA is not the ability to do what you want. It is the ability to stop others from doing what THEY want"
    3. Re:One thing makes this totally suspect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boo hoo. Apple-zealot gets upset - news at 10! The reality is Apple used real patents without paying for them. They could have licensed them for next to nothing, but Apple decided they'd take them anyway. Apple suing Samsung over grid icons (which Apple stole from Sony), and rounded corners are the problem with the US patent system -not well designed security protocols for video communications.

      Stop being so attached to corporations. You are not Apple, they do not care about you beyond your (or your parents) wallet. Grow up.

  7. Pay them in Euros ... by perpenso · · Score: 1

    Pay them in Euros, that's one way to use the money accumulating in Ireland avoiding taxes upon repatriation. :-)

  8. Wankery by Uberbah · · Score: 1

    If Apple was a patent troll, you'd hear about them suing other companies on an hourly basis, not every few years. You do know that Samsung sued Apple as well, right? Right?

    1. Re:Wankery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, if Apple were a patent troll, you would hear about them suing over STUPID shit like rounded corners and slide to unlock.

    2. Re: Wankery by easyTree · · Score: 1

      Someone else knows how to do *things* - I demand to be compensated!

    3. Re:Wankery by DavidRavenMoon · · Score: 1

      VirnetX is regularly described as a patent troll, making most of its revenue through licensing the patents that it holds. They also instigated lawsuits against Microsoft and Cisco.

      http://arstechnica.com/tech-po...

      --
      -- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
    4. Re:Wankery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're more than a patent troll: they're the intelligence community's patent troll. It was founded by SAIC people, and its patents are for things that the government would not like citizens or companies to have, like direct-connect encrypted chats that make it harder to log and listen in. VirnetX is basically a CIA/NSA/GHCQ/etc front company that uses patents to keep good, safe communications out of the hands of ordinary people.

      Look at who they sue. Apple, Microsoft, Cisco. VirnetX is using patents to keep major players from providing good, easy-to-use communications solutions that would be hard for the government to tap and break.

    5. Re:Wankery by macs4all · · Score: 1

      They're more than a patent troll: they're the intelligence community's patent troll. It was founded by SAIC people, and its patents are for things that the government would not like citizens or companies to have, like direct-connect encrypted chats that make it harder to log and listen in. VirnetX is basically a CIA/NSA/GHCQ/etc front company that uses patents to keep good, safe communications out of the hands of ordinary people.

      Look at who they sue. Apple, Microsoft, Cisco. VirnetX is using patents to keep major players from providing good, easy-to-use communications solutions that would be hard for the government to tap and break.

      Well, that explains how they won the retrial.

  9. One Court in a Texas Small Town by XXongo · · Score: 1
    "The article points out that "Many patent cases are handled in the Texas court, which has a reputation for awarding favorable verdicts to plaintiffs alleging infringement.""

    Yep. The plaintiffs shop for a favorable court, and they pick this one court in a small town in Texas.

    http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-small-town-judge-who-sees-a-quarter-of-the-nations-patent-cases
    http://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/patently-unfair/

    1. Re:One Court in a Texas Small Town by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      East Texas has only a *reputation* for awarding favorable verdicts to plaintiffs alleging infringement; in reality it is not the most favorable district.

    2. Re:One Court in a Texas Small Town by tlambert · · Score: 3, Insightful

      East Texas has only a *reputation* for awarding favorable verdicts to plaintiffs alleging infringement; in reality it is not the most favorable district.

      Yes, but Apple was successful in fighting the change of venue to Somalia, which is where VirnetX wanted to have it tried... so they had to settle for East Texas.

  10. VirtnetX pretty much sues everyone. by tlambert · · Score: 5, Informative

    VirtnetX pretty much sues everyone. They are patent trolls. They lost against Cisco, which means we can sill use VPNs.

    Apple will undoubtedly appeal, and cite Alice Corp vs CLS Bank, which has about a 78% win track record for the defendant, when cited as part of a patent case. Either way: the next level of appeal takes it out of East Texas, also known as "Patent Troll Heaven".

  11. deets matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a real patent and Apple was aware of it.

    "Real" as in documented by the same patent office that recently got in hot water over corruption involving Sopranos-esque 'no-work' employees?

    "Real" as in so technically insightful that any hint of the innovation was revealed in this slashdot summary or upmodded comments thus far?

    Not exactly. If you want to continue your "real patent" defense, you might want to consider that this technical audience is very interested in what novel technique is actually being litigated over. The fact that no details seem quickly apparent suggests it is likely some one-click-purchasing bullshit.

    1. Re:deets matter by lucm · · Score: 1

      If you want to continue your "real patent" defense, you might want to consider that this technical audience is very interested in what novel technique is actually being litigated over. The fact that no details seem quickly apparent suggests it is likely some one-click-purchasing bullshit

      Dude are you for real? Next time you want to play the "this is a tech crowd don't bullshit us" card, make sure your question can't be answered with a simple fucking google search.

      There's already hints in the article about VPN and DNS security, and if that's not enough any retard with internet access can find out more easily.

      But of course you have done none of that. It's easier to post your lame accusations based on the fact that "no details seem quickly apparent". I've heard more convincing arguments from the guy who rummages through the recycle bins outside at 2am when he argues wih himself out loud.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    2. Re:deets matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude are you for real? Next time you want to play the "this is a tech crowd don't bullshit us" card, make sure your question can't be answered with a simple fucking google search.

      I am for real. I don't go searching for things that I expect to be front and center in the summary and the discussion. No, I did not read the fine article. Sue me.

    3. Re:deets matter by lucm · · Score: 1

      Then do like normal people and blame the editors.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
  12. Ha! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't carry any water for Apple or other consumer electronics company but I've been to Tyler Texas and it isn't a technological hotbed. You wonder where your old smart phone goes after it is hopelessly outdated? They go to Tyler to die.

  13. Saw i comming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Should've left the headphone jack in the iPhone 7...

    CAP === 'shuffled'

  14. SubjectIsSubject by p0p0 · · Score: 1

    Apple refuses to pay $302 million to VirnetX, Cites "Courage", Tells court to "Go f*ck themselves."

    This is a joke pls no sue

  15. Damn. Hang On A Sec... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...just gotta look in the seat cushions for the money.

    Apple makes that much in less than two days.

    1. Re:Damn. Hang On A Sec... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      aside from all this money adding up from all these lost lawsuits, it sure makes apple the laughing stock of the tech industry. They have quite the reputation as patent thieves.

  16. online working by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My Uncle Cameron got an awesome black Audi A6 only from working part-time off a pc at home...

                                                                                                http://fave.co/2d8h5YM

  17. The Great Texas Technohole by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    What technology companies should start doing is just stop offering any services or products in East Texas anymore.

    See how they like the luddite repercussions. Really they are ruining it for the rest of the world, so why should they see any of the benefits?