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In Canada's North, a Single Satellite Outage Means Losing Basic Services (vice.com)
Jordan Pearson, writing for Motherboard: Around 5 PM Eastern time on Sunday, a satellite providing internet services to most of North America went offline due to a technical glitch, the CBC reported. If you live the vast majority of communities in southern Canada or the US, you probably didn't notice. But in some parts of Canada's sparsely populated North, losing just one satellite means giving up basic services like access to ATMs or a flight out of town. In other words, life went offline before the satellite's function was restored on Monday afternoon. The satellite in question was Ottawa-based Telesat's Anik F2, which first went online in 2004 and has a coverage area spanning Canada's northernmost tip down to the southern US. Most places in North America don't totally depend on Anik F2 for an internet connection, and have landlines as well as other satellites -- even some of Telesat's -- to fall back on if one piece of equipment goes offline. But Canada's northern communities are desperately lacking in internet infrastructure, a situation that Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has pledged to remedy. Some places depend on Anik F2's connection for everything. There is no backup.
Well did he use cat5 cable to connect with the satellite?
If we (the human species) were able lay telegraph cables to span oceans in the 19th century, I'm sure we can lay a fiber optic cable over the ground to the North. Difficulty: there's not a lot of white people up there.
"and has a coverage area spanning Canada's northernmost tip down to the southern US"
I get why one satellite would cover the northern part of Canada.
I don't get why that one satellite would also extend so far south.
How about IP over moose or beaver carriers as a backup?
"..leaving dozens of Canadians without Internet."
Solving Unix problems since 1989...
But they have rocks and trees and rocks and rocks and trees and... WATER!!!
Why would they need Internet access!? pfffttt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
...BUY SOME GOLD! THE SATELLPOCALYPSE IS UPON US!
Then you can barter for toilet paper with precious metals. It'll be fun!
Internet in less populated areas is less reliable than in more populated areas.
If you really care about being "connected", don't live in the Canadian arctic. Easy.
I realize you're joking but the truth is actually not that different with many in the north relying on snail mail for internet.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
So, it was down from 5PM Sunday until Monday afternoon? That's not as bad as some Comcast outages I've been through. People making a big deal out of nothing it would appear.
You're talking about a place where the roads are closed for a few months every year -- when they are iced over. Not surprisingly, I don't think backup internet is the biggest concern. It was down for a day, I'm sure everyone survived. Couldn't get a flight out of town -- which airline's computers screwed up last month grounding flights across the continent again?
So every ten years they live without internet access for 24 hours. That's not a concern.
You got the road part backwards. When the roads are iced over, then its a good time to drive, the problem time is during the spring thaw, when the roads turn to a soupy mess.
Good point!
It's a national embarrassment we don't have a proper, high bandwidth, low latency connection to the North. Such should be the price of sovereignty.
Satellite is sold as a viable option, it's not; those are geosync satellites, and they've got huge latency.
Backup? Sure. Primary? No way.
Be nice to see some vision from the PM here; start with the North, extend it to everybody. This is a big country; that makes it expensive - but also very important.
..don't panic
Regardless their race, if some morons want to live in the middle of the wildness it's not everyone else's job to spend a ton of resources getting them reliable internet.
Um.
They've been living there for tens of thousands of years.
Literally.
Meanwhile, you're the johnny come lately in this scenario
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
There's really no reason Canada shouldn't be the world leader in telecommunications. We have the manpower and rationale for tackling the issue, and it would benefit us in so many ways.
And while I'm 100% with you in that northern communities need better internet (and that the PM should lay out some sort of vision for it), having been up north myself and experienced it first-hand, I think you're underestimating just how costly and difficult it is to get internet up there. It's not just a matter of distance, but access, infrastructure, and natural conditions that pile on to complicate matters. It's a problem that needs to be solved, but "just lay fiber" isn't necessarily the best solution.
I've deployed networks spanning 30,000+ square kilometers. I know it's possible. It's just not possible for private industry to do at a profit.
Hybrid microwave and fiber is of course the best option - but it is a completely feasible undertaking with the technology available today.
Fiber is uniquely well suited to dealing with horrible environmental conditions; in most of the north, a low-cost option for fiber deployment en masse is probably the best option.
We can build a proper supply highway while we're at it. Canada is one of the largest and most advanced nations on earth. We should act like it.
..don't panic
The Canadian road system go broken into 2 halves which did not connect last winter when a bridge broke. Canada has a lot of wide open very very sparsely populated space.
"It's a national embarrassment"
This Canadian disagrees, and would find a massive federal make-work project for this a national embarrassment.
The problem is, on this scale 30k square miles is tiny. To cover the same footprint as this satellite, more than 4 million square miles has to be covered. No single entity has ever done anywhere close to that number using something other than satellite.
Why do you think fiber that runs for hundreds of millions of miles in areas with no power infrastructure or roads half of the time is a "completely feasible...low-cost option"
Canada is one of the largest and most advanced nations on earth. We should act like it.
That would be fine with a tax base of 100 million more people or a tax rate of 80+ percent. Until either one of those happen what you want will only be found in the western hemisphere just to the south.
Not just spring thaw, but winter too. Polar vortices, el nino, all screw up the winter road system.
If you want to see this in action, it's well documented on the TV show "Ice Road Truckers". The last few seasons of which have exclusively focused on Canada. It's amazing since most of the driving has been below the arctic circle. Also, being from BC, I never knew there was such a thing going on in the winter - I'm guessing the mountains here pretty much make the entire province passable year round. If there is a winter road system, it's not well known.
That said, we do have our own hellish weather documented on "Highway Thru Hell" in the winters, but it's mostly all paved except for some forestry access roads.
In terms of population Canada actually ranks behind such population centers as Iraq and the Ukraine. One of the largest -- in terms of square miles? Sure, it is right behind Russia. However that is the problem: Canada is #2 in terms of land area, but #38 in terms of population.
Provide service over tens of miles to get thousands of customers? Why not? Provide service over thousands of miles to get tens of customers? Who is going to pay for this thing?
Unless each customer does not mind a $1000 internet bill per month (yes, even those puny Canadian dollars), some government support is going to be needed.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
Had to click to the article, and then again to the source to finally find out what area they were talking about, "northern Quebec and Nunavut". You'd think that's interesting information, and a lot better than just "North".
I mentioned having been up north for work. I was on the Ungava Peninsula, which is a fraction of the Canadian north. It's 252,000 sq km. There is zero infrastructure out there. When I mean zero, I mean literally zero. It's not much different from much of the north once you step outside of Yellowknife or Whitehorse.
The communities on the Ungava are all on the coast, which in theory would make it easier to deploy (and this applies to much of the north) since you don't actually have to provide 100% coverage, but I'd like to hear your proposal for building the stations and digging the necessary trenches when there is, as I said, literally zero infrastructure to help you along. Not just building roads, but providing the power necessary, where all power generation is dependent on boat-delivered diesel fuel. How do you manage that, year round? What do you do when something fails? Fiber + microwave is great, but the Ungava isn't, say, the Gaspé Peninsula.
There are certainly solutions to be found, and I think at least part of it involves existing technologies. But I genuinely think that the best-fit solution won't rely just on what we've done before, elsewhere.
Not just spring thaw, but winter too. Polar vortices, el nino, all screw up the winter road system.
If you want to see this in action, it's well documented on the TV show "Ice Road Truckers". The last few seasons of which have exclusively focused on Canada. It's amazing since most of the driving has been below the arctic circle. Also, being from BC, I never knew there was such a thing going on in the winter - I'm guessing the mountains here pretty much make the entire province passable year round. If there is a winter road system, it's not well known.
That said, we do have our own hellish weather documented on "Highway Thru Hell" in the winters, but it's mostly all paved except for some forestry access roads.
OMG, they've been below the arctic circle? Oh wait... doesn't that include most of humanity?
And considering TV shows as documentation is amusing, they're shows. Driving in arctic conditions isn't the same as summer, but assuming the roads have been cleared of snow, it's not exceptionally special - you just have to be more careful regarding the ice.
Winter roads are only drivable in winter. In summer they're just lakes and muskeg. I've lived in several communities that are fly-in (or boat-in) only all spring summer and fall, with just a few months of road access when everything freezes over. When it comes to arctic conditions on real roads, I'd certainly rather drive in -40 than just below freezing - snow is much grippier in the real cold than it is at warmer temperatures.
Maybe you should turn your Asshole dial down a notch or two.
They're referring to ice roads that are below the arctic circle, not all roads south of the arctic circle. If you used your brain you'd know that. The TV show, whether you like it or not, shines a light on a topic that most people likely never think about. And it gives some history of the roads in use, some of the details of the routes, what actually is getting transported, and you get to see a first-hand perspective of someone who works in those dangerous conditions.
but assuming the roads have been cleared of snow, it's not exceptionally special - you just have to be more careful regarding the ice.
The whole point of the show is that the roads are ice/snow. The whole point of ice roads is that they're not 'clear'. There is no pavement, there is only snow and ice, because the ice for the road is probably a river or lake. Maybe if you watched the TV show or read the wiki page you'd know that, but it seems you're more interested in being a cunt.
But fuck it, you're a god damn anon so you'll never see this reply and you'll always be an asshole....such is the anon way.
They are deploying fiber up the Mackenzie Valley. It is currently way behind schedule and over budget because the government went with the lowest bidder and everyone who signed off on the line burial didn't actually check anything.
Now they have to do every part of the line again, and it can only be done at certain times of the year, so who knows how ling it'll be at this rate.
I'm not hoping for a year-round road, it will screw up a lot of things here. Prices won't drop on anything, number of flights will get cut to the bare minimum because a 14 hour drive out is totally feasible for everyone, so flight prices will go up even higher. Probably will make everyone lose their Northern living allowances as well.
Tell me more about south Canada....
love is just extroverted narcissism
For communities relatively close to another community that already has or will soon have a good Internet connection such as from an undersea cable, microwave towers may provide an effective bridge.
This assumes reliable electrical power and the ability to construct tall-enough-to-see-each-other towers at both ends.
The combination of sea-port fiber connections and microwave connections to "nearby" communities should reduce the number of people who rely only on a single satellite connection, but it's not the solution for everyone: Setting up a microwave-tower network like the US had from the 1950s to the 1990s, with towers spaced every 30-or-so miles, would likely be cost-prohibitive due to lack of existing electrical or generator-fuel-delivery infrastructure.
Other than having two birds in the sky - either in orbit or flying around in the atmosphere - I don't see any way to give everyone redundancy without being cost-prohibitive.
By the way, for low-bandwidth communications such as voice-grade telephony, texting, and email, or even very simple/bandwidth-optimized web browsing (the modern-day equivalent of a BBS-connection or mainframe-TTY with local echo turned on), shortwave-or-lower-band terrestrial radio should be able to get the job done.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
The lack of backups is the result of thinking that gave the US the pager outage
"Why did satellite Galaxy 4 go off course?" (May 20, 1998)
http://edition.cnn.com/TECH/sp...
Most nations just buy into one direct to consumer network. Like one phone line, one satellite was seen as enough.
A lot of basic vital infrastructure around the world is just used all day, everyday with no thought to any backup.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
In Canada's South, a little bit of rain apparently means the fucking power goes out.
Unbelievable, some of the highest rates on the continent and Hydro can't keep service going. Fucking incompetent donkey fuckers.
I'm perfectly willing to sacrifice a couple hours per year of downtime in exchange for not having to double the cost to have a completely redundant system in orbit. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one voting with my wallet on that one.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
'For those who don’t remember it or have forgotten, Teledesic was one of a number of 1990s plans to use low-earth orbiting satellites to provide wireless Internet service almost everywhere on Earth.'
This is a communications satellite in geostationary orbit. The typical ground station will be using fairly expensive equipment to provide an uplink in addition to a downlink. The ground station will provide internet, telephone, and television services to an entire community via more conventional means (e.g. cable). This is not the type of installation that you have in your home.
The uses go far beyond home internet access. The typical ground station will provide service for local government services and businesses. In this day in age, it is necessary for both the governance and economic development of isolated regions.
Many of these isolated regions are also within the provinces (i.e., not the territories in the arctic). Northern Manitoba, Ontario, and Quebec are very much populated but much of it is incredibly isolated. There are several communities that are further south than major Canadian cities that rely upon this satellite. To give you an idea of what I mean: a town in Northern Ontario can be disconnected from the road and communications network, yet be further south than roughly 10% of the Canadian population.
For those saying that these people should live elsewhere: (a) the development of isolated regions, meaning most of Canada's territory, will not be possible without the tools needed for economic development. That includes the internet and telephone service. (b) Many of the people in these regions were born and raised there. Telling them to move would be like someone telling you to uproot your family and move to a community hundreds of kilometers away. I mean sure, you/they can do that. Just don't expect an agreeable response.
Ah yes I remember that thing 1.5Mbps down 256Kbps up and the constant threat of termination if I used too much data
"If you violate the FAP in four consecutive months or at least once in each of five calendar months within any twelve month period â" whether by exceeding the Monthly Usage Threshold or by remaining in a reduced-speed status -- WildBlue may terminate your Customer Agreement."
Yeah I remember that I used it for about 3 years.
Still have the dish pointed and equipment connected.
Every once in awhile I plug it in and see if it can still connect to the satellite.
But I left Anik F2 for an unlimited 3G data connection years ago it was slightly slower than satellite (1.5Mbps vs 1.2Mbps) but it was way more reliable, unlimited and it was even cheaper!
Minimum threshold fixed. Thanks!
"Telesat is continuing to investigate the root cause of the anomaly and will advise affected customers as more details become known." link
"Just as the solar cycle follows a roughly 11-year cycle, so does the GCR, with its maximum, however, coming near solar minimum" link
"Highlights of Solar and Geomagnetic Activity 26 September - 02 October 2016 Solar activity was at predominately very low levels" link
Being mostly coastal is a big help, you can run undersea cables much easier than land cables in desolate areas. The trick would be splitting them off to connect to the land near whatever they call a population center up there. From the coast you can extend the service through cell coverage, but of course this still runs into the problem of being a hugely expensive project to service a few thousand people who don't have much money.
I read the internet for the articles.
Would it still be an embarrassment if we had a capable data infrastructure ready to go when the northwest passage becomes regularly used?
Fiber is uniquely well suited to dealing with horrible environmental conditions; in most of the north, a low-cost option for fiber deployment en masse is probably the best option.
Does any of your network experience involve areas with permafrost? If you don't bury things deep enough in areas with permafrost, it will get sheared by movement from annual freeze/thaw cycle. To avoid that you have to bury it much deeper, but that gets expensive to cut through the permafrost and to make sure there are no problems refreezing. Alternatively, you can have it above the ground, although that requires substantially more structure. Both are solvable, doable approaches and have been done for things like pipelines, but the result is much, much more expensive than just large deployments in less extreme environments. Just look into the engineering needed for pipelines sometime, or for an extreme case, proposals to run fiber the South Pole due to the large scientific demand for bandwidth there.
We can build a proper supply highway while we're at it. Canada is one of the largest and most advanced nations on earth. We should act like it.
And how many hundreds of millions of dollars should be spent to service every settlement of a couple dozen people? That wouldn't make us look more advanced, that would make us look foolish (or corrupt with pork spending). The money spent on road construction and maintenance can go a long way toward the maintenance and subsidies for air connections. Several previous, much smaller projects ballooned into the C$100M+ range because materials and construction is difficult (even when you have an existing supply highway). Different mining companies have tried to group together to build new roads, and end up finding it cheaper and easier to just go back to ice roads.
Just like how air transport can quickly become cheaper than road maintenance depending on sparseness and usage, at some point it becomes cheaper to just deploy a second or multiple satellites instead of deploying fiber, even if that means a couple billion dollars a decade to do.
But fuck it, you're a god damn anon so you'll never see this reply and you'll always be an asshole....such is the anon way.
Signed,
Anonymous Coward
Monday October 03, 2016
Trolling is a art,
There was a Dilbert cartoon which fits that. The company bid low and won a contract to provide wireless services to some area, then pointy head passed the task of implementing this on to the techs. "how difficult can it be not to have to put up wires"?
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
Having spent years living with a choice of high-latency internet access through geostationary satellites, or no internet connection at all, I fail to see what the great benefit of "low latency" connections are. Unless you're doing high-frequency stock trading (in which case you're a parasite who should be given a shovel and a productive job in a sewage farm) or perhaps some types of gaming (I don't know - I don't play online games), what is the big deal about waiting a few seconds for a web page to start loading. It's not as if you're often going to be transferring gigabytes of data across such an expensive connection, are you?
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Hmmm, someone speaking there with the confidence that comes with never having had to deal with any of (1) the sea, (2) annual growth of coastal ice, or (3) the gouging of passing icebergs.
Remember the Peterman's iceberg of about 5 years ago? 40 by 80km in dimension, 10-50m above sea-level, and so up to several hundred metres below sea level. That last was really good news to us - it meant that the berg would ground well before it reached our oil field. Of course, it would have gouged trenches tens of metres into the seabed as it did so, which was why oil pipelines and control lines were trenched tens of metres into the seabed.
I'm so glad to be informed that it is "much easier" to put the cables into the ea instead of on land. I'd never have believed it if it hadn't come from a credible source.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
And the other corollary is that your equipment budget is going to be constrained by the size and weight limits of an Antonov's hold. If it doesn't fit into that, you're not going to get it in. If it does fit, you've then got to look at your runway infrastructure - will it take an Antonov?
Nothing in particular against other heavy-lift aircraft. But the Antonov is the biggest readily available. The military or Airbus might be able to make you a one-off plane that's bigger, but for that time and budget you'd be able to chop whatever it is up into Antonov-size loads and rebuild it long before negotiations for the new plane are finished.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Thanks to global warming you won't have to worry about Icebergs anymore in 50 years.
Undersea cables do get cut from time to time. They can be repaired. OMGWTF Icebergs are one possibility. Ships dragging anchors is a more common case. Still a hell of a lot cheaper than cutting a road through the countryside and burying thousands of miles of cable in permafrost.
I read the internet for the articles.
Bullshit. As global warming increases in it's effects, the remaining ice will continue to slide downhill into the oceans, where even more icebergs will be calved. It's only when you've heated the Arctic and Antarctic to the extent that none of the glaciers actually reach the sea that you'l lose the hazard of icebergs. Considering that both land masses have considerable areas of steep coastal mountains, that's going to take considerable heating, and will be somewhat offset by the increased snowfall due to the greater capacity of the warmer atmosphere to collect and move water vapour, so there will be increased precipitation on the relatively cold sinks.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"