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'If KickassTorrents is a Criminal Operation, Google Should Start Worrying' (torrentfreak.com)
An anonymous reader writes: Polish authorities have extended the arrest of Artem Vaulin, the alleged owner of KickassTorrents. His defense team is currently preparing to fight the U.S. extradition request, which will start next month. According to Artem's U.S. lawyer, operating a torrent site is not a criminal offense. "In fact, in my opinion operating an index search engine cannot constitute a crime in the United States because secondary infringement is not criminalized under US law. If KickassTorrents is a criminal operation, then Google should start worrying," Gurvits says
You think all companies are equal under U.S. law?
Plebs walk. In chains.
Contrary to the belief of nerds everywhere, intent matters a lot in court.
Google having a search engine to help you find anything on the internet is very different than running a torrent site that is obviously designed to facilitate piracy.
(Sure, yeah, there's like 3 linux ISOs on there, and probably Big Buck Bunny. But the overwhelming majority is infringing content.)
Anything that doesn't make money for Donald Trump and the rest of the 1% should be against the law.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
And so can any other information indexer. Slippery slopes and what not.
go find Edward Snowden and see if he can sleep on his couch
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
My Client is Innocent.
This is a Miscarriage of Justice.
Look Puppies!
Google is a general purpose search engine. I can pretty much guarantee you that if CraigsList decided to deliberately (as in by policy) open sections for transacting in hard drugs, child sex and such that they would get pounded into the ground about as ferociously by federal law enforcement. It is a matter of intent. Google takes reasonable steps to allow people to remove infringing and illegal activity. This site is based primarily on facilitating that.
Unlike when you write software, the intention of your actions plays an important part in the court room.
Google indexes everything, then makes some attempt to reduce the impact of any unintended copyright infringement. It does not pretend that copyright law does not apply to it, even if some of the decisions it makes regarding this are boneheaded. Additionally, google serves a purpose in the world, even without the copyright infringement it occasionally facilitates.
Kickass torrents on the other hand, knew what it's website was being used for and didn't give a crap. It's practical usefulness is none if you take away the copyright infringement. The owners intended for it to be used as a vehicle for such and never made an attempt to otherwise stop it. So it is not surprising that they get aggressively pursued by authorities, while Google doesn't.
Operating an index search engine is not illegal in America but going against the wishes of the elite is. He is just lucky they haven't called a drone strike on his ass the pathetic plebian.
When a citizen (in the least polite terms) of a two bit third world country where corruption is open and rampant thinks he has a better chance of a fair trial in his native land than the United States, we really need to start asking some hard questions about our government.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
there are corporate legal names and then there are trademark ip functions copyright in same name. Kind of like how US GPO says The United States *is* (not plural for isnt We or are We) a foreign nation to the 48 States of America and The Unites States is according to Uniform Commercial Code 15(h) located in the District of Columbia where is incorporated under USCode title 28 section 3002 residentifiable "federal corporation" so who own it's stocks?
All the copyrighted movies and music you want! All free! It's way better than Mega ever was.
Hei that is Poland not Russia.
I am sure you will say you know that.
If anything Poland is tending to emulate the US oligarchy model.
With a right wing government that don't want refugees and intends a total bans on abortion .
Pax Americana.
He is being extradited to the US because the owner was dumb enough to have a server located in Chicago.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
He doesn't *want* a fair trial, he wants to be declared innocent and able to continue doing what he's doing. Whether it's "fair" or "unfair" isn't really relevant to him.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
Artem Vaulin is Ukranian, idiot. Therefore "When a citizen (in the least polite terms) of a two bit third world country where corruption is open and rampant [...]" is referring to Ukraine, not Poland.
As a Pole, it's always nice to see my countrymen keeping the 'Polish are dumb' meme alive via demonstration.
> How do you provably establish someone's intent?
By their words, most often. Kim Dotcom sent emails saying they needed to get the newest Hollywood movies on the site faster. Kick Ass Torrents had several categories listed on it's front page - "TV Shows", "Movies", etc, no category for "Linux Distributions". Therefore it's quite clearly intended for torrents of TV shows, no of Linux distributions. HRC instructed her staff to remove the classification markings from files before sending them via email.
Ok fine. License Google, Yahoo or BING search results. Then mix in a killer torrent search engine, and voila. Legal Torrentz!
In the US there are two sets of rules. One set of rules is for the filthy rich that contribute to the other filthy rich. The other is for everyone else. So either get rich or get screwed. Your call.
That would be a second world country, not a third.
Geeks treat the law as computer code with no allowance for nuance or subjectivity.
There's the whole "reasonable man" test in law.
Using Google, looking at the nature of search results and the way people actually use it; and their attitude towards copyright infringement notices; as well as the quantity of material indexed, it is quite clear to most reasonable people that Google is a search engine.
Kickass Torrents is used almost exclusively to find material that is obviously not being shared by a legitimate copyright holder. Most of the material being indexed infringes copyright. A reasonable person would conclude that the purpose and intent of the site is to facilitate copyright infringement.
1. Start a site that irritates US IP stakeholders.
2. Wait, hope that one day they'll come after you.
3. The day comes: they want to give you a free ride to the US.
4. Get jailed in US Federal Prison
5. Live the life. Much better than in your shithole country.
Sure, once you're done you have to go back but hey... All-inclusive holiday trip to the US. What's there to complain about?
They should prosecute these guys in their own countries. That would be a much more effective deterrent.
It's like the new old thing!
We'll make great pets
No. You need to question that citizen's sanity.
They broke no law that I can see, but they are an enabling technology. An analogy might be that they are like a car rental company that advertises that they have the best get-away-cars money can rent, where as Google is yor normal Hertz or Avis car rental that checks references and credit status before renting. Its not the same thing to index files with the intended audience of thieves vs a general indexing service that tries not to attract the wrong people. Yes, they index legitimate torrents, but that might not be their intended audience. The qualifier is "intent", and that is what the US court system needs to prove, if the extradition is successful. For the time being they are presumed innocent under current US law, so extradition might be a problem as it should be.
When a citizen (in the least polite terms) of a two bit third world country where corruption is open and rampant thinks he has a better chance of a fair trial in his native land than the United States, we really need to start asking some hard questions about our government.
What makes you think he's going to be prosecuted in his native land? I'll pretty much guarantee you that the only reason he's under arrest is because the US pressured the Ukraine to arrest him.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Sick of a legal system that allows obvious bias and assumes mind-reading of "intent"? This is why the crypto nerds want DAOs and polycentric law. Because at the end of the day, "intent to pirate" is just "big corporate bullshit allowance".
Just because you run a torrent, does not mean you are transmitting anything illegal, and it's no more illegal than anything somebody transmits via Google.
Copyrighted material, Government secrets, and in SOME cases Child Porn, are the only three things that are restricted. BUT copyright law makes it illegal for you to sell and make a profit somebody else's copyrighted work. Although there are laws requiring you to have a license to drive a car or practice medicine; there is no law requiring you to have a license to listen to music, watch a movie, use software. Back when the courts ruled that companies could license it; there was no requirement for us to have a license which would be a contract anyway, but I digress.
Torrent is nothing but another way to transmit data, and I have often transmitted my own intellectual property to another for security reasons, and there is nothing illegal about that.
the Ukraine, like Poland are Second World