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Senator Wants Nationwide, All-Mail Voting To Counter Election Hacks (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: In the wake of the Obama administration's announcement that the Russian government directed hacks on the Democratic National Committee and other institutions to influence U.S. elections, a senator from Oregon says the nation should conduct its elections like his home state does: all-mail voting. In an e-mail, Sen. Ron Wyden, a Democrat, told Ars: "We should not underestimate how dangerous... attacks on election systems could be. If a foreign state were to eliminate registration records for a particular group of Americans immediately before an election, they could very likely disenfranchise those Americans and swing the results of an election. Recent efforts by some states to make it more difficult to vote only serves to increase the danger of such attacks. This is why I have proposed taking Oregon's unique vote-by-mail system nationwide to protect our democratic process against foreign and domestic attacks." The only states to hold all elections entirely by mail are Oregon, Washington, and Colorado, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. More than a dozen others have various provisions for mail voting. The National Conference of State Legislatures has a breakdown here on how Americans cast their votes across the union. Wyden co-sponsored the Vote By Mail Act in July, and he did so for reasons at the time that were unconnected to cybersecurity. Instead, the measure was originally proposed to help minorities and others cast ballots. The plan requires the U.S. Postal Service to deliver ballots to all registered voters. Voters could also register to vote when applying for driver's licenses, too. The measure fell on deaf ears this year and didn't even get a committee vote. A Wyden spokesperson said the proposal will have a "better chance" next year if Democrats win a majority of Senate seats.
It's much easier to buy/intimidate votes than to tamper with the post office. Now the voter (or their mom,don't forget that recent case in the news) can just drop their blank ballot off at the local party/union/employer/funder's headquarters in exchange for whatever incentive and the ballots can be voted the "right" way. Much closer to the Russian model, actually, where the person officially voting isn't necessarily the decision maker.
How about just making it so we have a disconnected backup, maybe even a paper copy somewhere just in case, and then the threat from "hackers" isn't much of one. But that would expect a modicum of competence, right?
The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
Does "vote by mail" require any sort of ID? If not, how on earth is this more secure than a ballot box?
In pretty much any kind of fraud, people are far less willing to show their face to any sort of authority. Fraud online or by mail is just much easier to work up the courage for.
What's going to stop $PARTY_YOU_HATE from mailing in thousands of ballots for people that didn't vote (the recently dead/felons, people they know directly that didn't vote, etc). When all you need is a name to forge a ballot, no risk to the fraudster, vote fraud will be epic.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Not only does it NOT require ID, it is easy to "find" ballots well after the election. Or to make sure ballots are mailed late to certain constituencies (such as overseas military) who may "vote the wrong way" - and thereby ensure their votes aren't counted.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Mail voting is incredibly weak and incredibly stupid.
There is no way to verify that the person voting is the correct person and he is not forced in any way.
Your paper trail is completly useless if you cannot prove it has a proper origin.
Voting in secrecy in a nice voting booth using a simple straightforward ballot is a beautifull system. It is simple enough that you can not only explain it to a ten year old, the ten year old can actually go see for him self and verify proper procedures are followed.
Yet again and again people try to fuck it up with mail or electronic voting schemes.
Secure messaging: http://quickmsg.vreeken.net/
why is this not a thing for registered voters?
As Stalin once put it:
The only hope for the electorate is to keep the latter group decentralized and otherwise disconnected from each other — to keep both fraud and honest mistakes small-scale and thus unprofitable. Any attempts to centralize vote-counting is the end of Democracy.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Um, yes. He's right. You're wrong. Hard evidence proved voter fraud was a minor problem, while the states' efforts were largely based on keeping people the right wing establishment doesn't away from the polls.
Sorry to disappoint you with these simple truths.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
...and if it was that simple, there wouldn't be a problem. BUT.... it's not, and stupid fucking cunts like you just can't seem to get that into your pea sized brain.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
We've got a president-select who is above all laws regarding classified material, and a president who continues to legislate by executive order, and you think they're going to stop union thuggery?
If a person votes according to a newspaper or union pamphlet's recommendations then that is a decision they freely made since no one is looking over their shoulder in the voting both. However with a mail-in system someone looking over your shoulder is a very real possibility. The two cases are not equivalent.
Vote by mail is not heavily targeted because it is currently largely inconsequential. Many mail-in ballots, absentee ballots, are never even counted. They are only counted if their number exceeds the current margin of victory, its a cost savings thing.
That's a complete lie. While they do move driver's licenses offices (I spent an afternoon trying to track one down about 10 years ago when the one that I used to go to wasn't there any more), the number seems to be increasing and well distributed. And there are provisions to get a free ID if you don't drive (if you do drive then there is no reason that you can't get to a license office). They have actually made things easier, since you can renew a registration over the Internet now, which you couldn't do before. So there is clearly no intent to keep legitimate people from voting or getting an ID. Checking for ID seems a perfectly valid thing. If I have to show an ID to fly (as in freedom of travel) then I should certainly have to show one to vote. It is only Democrats that thrive on voter fraud (and we have plenty of it here) that opposed this.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
There is no party "known for vote fraud". All studies and investigations have shown voter fraud to be virtually non-existent.
There is, on the other hand, a party that continually tries to restrict voting and disenfranchise voters while raising the specter of that non-existent voter fraud.
All studies and investigations have shown voter fraud to be virtually non-provable.
FTFY
And as I recall, a huge number of voters in said "known for vote fraud" party were really pissed at their eventual nominee who appears to have committed vote fraud during the primaries.
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
You do know that has never been a real issue don't you? It's just fear driven demagoguery.
Besides, you don't just walk in and pick up a ballot, they send it to you. Funny thing, they don't send them to illegals.
Dumbass. People do this in their homes, you know, where they receive their mail. If people are coming into your home and strongarming you, you have some other serious issues to contend with. As to getting a meeting where everyone brings their blank ballots, there is no way to keep that shit secret! It will be found out, and the law will be on their ass! It's not going to happen, so you can put your tinfoil hat down, this isn't a hollywood movie.
Really? You think people are going to be extorting whole neighborhoods for an extended period for their ballots, and have them sign the security envelope it's sealed in just to try and rig an election? Due to the obvious exploitation and manpower requirements, it would be far more efficient, safer, and faster to just extort the ballot officials that tally the damn things. Of course, that doesn't even need a vote by mail system.
Your paranoia is unfounded and silly.
Sorry, but what was the "vote fraud"? Yes, I've heard the DNC was clearly favoring Clinton in ways which were probably not appropriate, but as far as actual votes, I've seen nothing to indicate fraud. If you've got something reputable, please share. I'm honestly interested.
captcha: manure (how fitting)