Ford's Buggy Infotainment System Referred To By Engineers As 'Polished Turd' and 'Unsaleable' (computerworld.com)

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Ford's Buggy Infotainment System Referred To By Engineers As 'Polished Turd' and 'Unsaleable' (computerworld.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Wednesday October 12, 2016 @11:50AM from the polished-turd dept.

Lucas123 writes: A class-action lawsuit against Ford and its MyFord Touch in-vehicle infotainment system -- originally based on a Microsoft platform -- has brought to light corporate documents that show engineers at the Dearborn carmaker referred to the problematic technology as a "polished turd" that they feared would be "unsaleable." The documents even reveal that Henry Ford's great grandson experienced significant problems with MyFord Touch. In one incident, Edsel Ford was forced to wait on a roadside for the system to reset and could not continue to drive because he was unable to use the IVI's navigation system. The lawsuit describes an IVI screen that would freeze or go blank; generate error messages that wouldn't go away; voice recognition and navigation systems that failed to work, problems wirelessly pairing with smartphones, and a generally slow system. Ford's CEO Mark Fields even described his own travails with the SYNC IVI, referring to it as having crashed on several occasions, and that he was so frustrated with the system he may have damaged his car's screen out of aggravation. The civil suit is expected to go to trial in 2017.

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Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 11:53 · Score: 4, Funny

What did they expect?
1. Re:Microsoft... by Gr8Apes · 2016-10-12 13:00 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  True - MS products aren't known as stable reliable systems. Hell, MS OSes even left a whole Navy ship disabled, so why would you think an entertainment system nearly 20 years later would be any better? Their OS hasn't changed measurably underneath the covers, other than lots of bandaids.
  
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
2. Re:Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 13:17 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Every time I turn on my Ford truck, here's what I have to do to connect my phone via bluetooth:
  1) select AUX
  2) press menu
  3) scroll to select source
  4) click enter
  5) scroll to select bluetooth
  6) click enter
  If while I sit in my truck I turn the vehicle off, turn it back on, I have to do the same thing over again. It doesn't remember shit between vehicle starts.
  No usability testing, typical of Microsoft products.
3. Re: Microsoft... by JeffDeptola · 2016-10-12 13:28 · Score: 2
  
  That was actually cited as a feature. Ford's claim was having it default to your Bluetooth device could have drained user's phone battery if they were unaware they were synced. That being said, it's bulls*** and I want it to sync automatically!
4. Re:Microsoft... by Proudrooster · 2016-10-12 14:00 · Score: 2
  
  The Old Ford Sync, non-touch screen isn't too bad, but the new sync with touch screen needs help. The main problem is that Microsoft never ships finished working software and patches the hell out of everything. Patching software is harder to do with cars where users aren't interested in waiting for their OS to patch and reboot before driving. I have downloaded the Sync patches from Ford and patched quite a few systems and it is a slooooowwww process. Slow = 20 minutes or more to load update and reboot.
  I've often thought that instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, automakers should just make a spot in the dash where you can slide in an iPad. iPads are stable, have good touch interfaces, and you can pop them out and take them into the house to patch them then put them back in the car. But what do I know?
  I hope this doesn't ding their stock price, I just bought a boatload of F (Ford) betting that they are going to get autonomous vehicles running in the next 10 years. I hope MS isn't their partner. Please don't let it be MS!
  On a side note, things aren't much better at BMW where the dealer can actually brick your car with a bad firmware patch. The BMW has multiple embedded systems that all need patching and updates. Cars are now essentially software.
5. Re:Microsoft... by ConceptJunkie · 2016-10-12 14:13 · Score: 2
  
  You're lucky. At least that works for you. My phone rarely syncs with my Ford's Sync system at all. Meanwhile, in my Kia Sedona, I have no problems ever. In the Ford Fusion, I just use a wire into the headphone jack because BT is usually too much trouble.
  As far as being a car goes, I like my Ford Fusion fine, so this is a minor annoyance in general. I'm only (sort of) joking when I say the Fusion is built entirely out of blind spots.
  
  --
  You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
6. Re: Microsoft... by AndyMcL · 2016-10-12 15:23 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I have a 2015 F-150 Lariat. The rest of the truck is awesome. Truly I really love the rest of the truck. Engineering masterpiece and so many details right plus great gas mileage. I would give it 5 out of 5 stars....except the &$-)1#^!! My Ford Touch! I hate it! I am not a person to get too upset over things, but I had to pay $1,500 extra for something that doesn't work well and never will because Ford and MSFT stopped development on it. Also according to Ford there is no upgrade path except to buy a new truck some year in the future. When I turn my truck on it automatically connects via Bluetooth and plays something random....it grabs anything up on iCloud. I've had rap music, kid pop, French language lessons, metal, ....it's always a surprise. The navigation system is comical and pathetic circa late 1990's or early 2000's tech. I will just stop writing right here on this because I am already getting mad thinking about it.
  I will never buy another Ford (or other make) without fully testing the infotainment system. Mobile device integration is too important in this day and age. It has to fully support Apple CarPlay and/or Andriod Auto or won't be considered.
  I really dislike Ford for also not taking care of recent customers. $1,500 for something flawed and dead ended while my iPhone is half the cost and infinitely better plus getting updated all the time.
  Buyer beware! Test it yourself fully before buying. Don't get a Ford until Apple Car Play comes standard (and not by a software update which may never come).
  -Andy
7. Re:Microsoft... by drinkypoo · 2016-10-12 17:33 · Score: 2
  
  I've often thought that instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, automakers should just make a spot in the dash where you can slide in an iPad. iPads are stable, have good touch interfaces, and you can pop them out and take them into the house to patch them then put them back in the car. But what do I know?
  That's not a bad idea, but it's not a good idea either. The most obvious objection is that an iPad is not really designed to handle that environment. Another obvious one is that automakers will want control over mounting location and size. In any case, most automakers are already implementing Android Auto and Apple Carplay, and virtually all of them are implementing at least one of these.
  I think what's really wanted is a HID-class USB touch screen and a HDMI-pro-connected (with the retention screw, that is) video output. Then you can plug in whatever you like. Of course, this is the opposite of what the automakers want. They want to lock you in.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
8. Re:Microsoft... by Alioth · 2016-10-13 04:43 · Score: 2
  
  The best one I had was a Chevrolet rental car. The Bluetooth device list was full (it only allows 5), but trying to delete any of the devices left by previous renters did nothing. We tried turning the car off, trying it with the engine stopped, trying it parked with the engine running etc, but no difference. The UI went through all of the motions of deleting it, but didn't actually delete it. Googling brought the following procedure to reset the system. Stop the car, turn it off. Open the drivers door. Wait for 5 minutes with the drivers door open. Close the drivers door. Turn the car back on again.
  It actually worked. It was bizarre. We could now remove the old bluetooth devices from the list.
  It even remembered and automatically connected with my phone afterwards too.
  
  --
  Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
9. Re:Microsoft... by Gr8Apes · 2016-10-13 06:29 · Score: 2
  
  If it were only that simple. However, the entire system, multiple computers and all which was supposedly hardened specifically for this application (running the vessel) failed to even come up on reboot IIRC. There were multiple stories about this released at the time, and the problems were deeper than that "bad data" being placed in non-volatile storage. I don't recall the exact specifics, but something about the OS being compromised and rendered inoperable was what I believe occurred. i.e., corrupted system files. That definitely is an OS issue, especially across multiple systems that are supposed to be redundant and able to withstand a node loss.
  
  --
  The cesspool just got a check and balance.
A bad Ford product? by barc0001 · 2016-10-12 11:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

This is my shocked face. I've owned 2 Fords, and as far as I am concerned, that was 2 too many.
1. Re:A bad Ford product? by Snotnose · 2016-10-12 13:36 · Score: 2
  
  When I was young and stupid, and had a car that required refilling the radiator every 20 miles, I went to a Ford dealership and got sold an 87 Escort. Biggest pile of shit I've ever owned. Within 2 years I'd replaced every light bulb on the car. The cruise control installed by the dealer (Pearson Ford at Fairmont and El Cajon) kept coming unscrewed and would hang down as gravity took over. Battery died with no warning 2-3 years in, fortunately it was a manual clutch so I got a stranger to push start me. I'd never had comprehensive insurance, they sold me a 1 year plan for over $1k. After a year I went to renew it and found out that A) it only covered the car, not me, my passengers, nor any damage done; and B) I could have a proper insurance plan for $200. The car itself was shit. The floorpan rusted out, when it rained your feet got wet. At 80k miles the fanbelt squealed, mechanic pointed out the crankshaft pulley was wobbling, which is Never A Good Sign. The driver's seat broke so I was driving in a reclining position (this got a recall after I'd sold the car but before I bitched at the dealer for it). Fuckers ripped me off, they closed some 10 years back and move to Miramar road. Been driving imports (Infiniti rocks) ever since, I'll never buy an American car again.
bet the "marketing requirements" were the original by dltaylor · 2016-10-12 12:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

It will be interesting if there's public disclosure of the marketing requirements doc, not to mention the purchasing input. The former are likely to be a mass of mutually-exclusive bullet items, with no input beyond magic to resolve the contradictions, and the latter will have no allowance in the cost of goods for hardware (and WHY THE HELL MICROSOFT?) for the inevitable feature creep, so there's no way it could ever have worked.
I own one, it's horrible by skaag · 2016-10-12 12:10 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's really pretty bad. I wish it was easy to replace, and that there was an open source project to replace it. The moment I saw that Microsoft bezel under the infotainment system, I knew it was trouble. Hopefully this lawsuit forces Ford to replace every single one of them with something more usable.

--
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...
1. Re:I own one, it's horrible by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 14:03 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Probably breaking an NDA here, but here's what's happening: Ford's autonomous vehicle division (AVD) has signed a 10-year exclusive partnership with the division at Microsoft that's developing the MyDrive system. That means all Ford vehicles for at least the first two product generations, probably more, will be running embedded Windows and using Microsoft cloud services for real-time video processing and sensor fusion (GPS, accelerometer, gyros, wheelspin, etc.)
  The codename for all of this is an ominous-sounding "PodBay." You've been warned. Cover the driver camera when you talk about it, this bitch can read lips.
  In fact, cover both cameras. There's one in the steering-wheel hub and one in the rearview mirror.
2. Re:I own one, it's horrible by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 16:58 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  It's a hybrid system. It doesn't send the video back. Lots of wack-ass ML code runs on the in-vehicle computer and talks to the mothership indirectly. It's sort of a realtime scheme with extensive dead-reckoning fallbacks, running under the same Windows instance that's playing your tunes.
  If I say anything more I'll get a knock on the door at 5 AM, and believe me, I need the sleep.
Re:Wrong company for the job by Smerta · 2016-10-12 12:40 · Score: 5, Informative

It's even worse than Microsoft -- actually some hack 'n' sack firm called BSquare (was a publicly-traded company, I think they're swirling the drain) did the initial version of Sync Gen 2. Oh, but BSquare is a Microsoft "Gold Certified Partner", whatever the hell that means.
There was a story on Hacker News a couple years ago, an embedded systems engineer (inside Ford) was lamenting upper-management's choice of Windows CE and BSquare for the system.
Interesting that the 3rd generation of SYNC (out since 2016 I think) is based on QNX and appears to very well received. No Microsoft, no BSquare, no Windows CE. QNX is a real-time operating system. Windows CE purports to be, but a) all the middleware crap that comes in MS Auto is so buggy and full of priority inversions etc,, give me a break.
Someone (maybe the Hacker News article?) said something along the lines of "the decision to use WinCE in MyFord Touch was a handshake on a golf course, and Ford has felt the pain ever since."
Ford "Stynk" is more like it by WhatHump · 2016-10-12 13:25 · Score: 2

I tried connecting my 32GB Apple iPod to it in my 2012 Ford Fusion. It attempted to index every song and crashed in the process, and became stuck on disc 2 of Pink Floyd's The Wall. It would not play anything else until I did a hard reset of the system. The only way I connect to it now is through the Aux jack in the centre console.

--
"Could be worse...could be raining." Igor
This is typical for Ford by LVSlushdat · 2016-10-12 14:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

This seems to be the norm for Ford.. Wife and I have a 2012 Escape, which has a "Sync by Microsoft" entertainment system (SirusXM/am-fm/Cd/Bluetooth Handsfree).. We've had the car since 2012, and right after we bought it, the sat radio would get "no signal" dropouts at almost every street intersection, no matter what sat channel you were on.. Once you cleared the intersection, signal would return, only to go out again at the next light.. Went back to the dealer and bugged them about it, they said "We'll take a look if you can leave the car for at least a week"... ???? WTF?? That AINT happening... Anyway we've just lived with it.. And not to mention the total of FIVE different Android smartphones we've tried to pair with the hands-free system.. None of which will pair.. I guess I should have realized when we were shopping for an SUV that ANYthing with parts with Microsoft's name on them would be a piece of shit...

--
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
1. Re:This is typical for Ford by adolf · 2016-10-12 16:04 · Score: 2
  
  If these features are important to you, then why didn't you test this stuff out before you bought the thing?
  
  --
  Kid-proof tablet..
Dear autos: please give up by MrLogic17 · 2016-10-12 14:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

Auto makers just don't understand tech, and the product cycle of phones is way, way faster than cars. I own a car typically 10-15 years. I own a phone maybe 4, if it doesn't get a fatal screen break.
I want my car to have an audio input, and a USB charge port. That's it - let me handle the GPS, audio, whatever with my own phone & my own apps.
If autos want to really get fancy, mirror my phone on a bigger touch screen - but stay out of the way.
1. Re:Dear autos: please give up by drinkypoo · 2016-10-12 17:29 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  If autos want to really get fancy, mirror my phone on a bigger touch screen - but stay out of the way.
  Actually, this is the norm. Almost everyone but Ford is implementing Apple Carplay, Android Auto, or both — technologies which do basically what you are describing, although your launcher is likely to go into an automotive mode as I understand it.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
2. Re:Dear autos: please give up by sethaw · 2016-10-13 05:20 · Score: 2
  
  Ford added Carplay and Android Auto as at least an option to pretty much all of its 2017 models. That's better than most manufacturers at this point.
  
  See the current lists yourself:
  https://www.android.com/auto/
  http://www.apple.com/ios/carpl...
Oh you just wait by RightwingNutjob · 2016-10-12 15:31 · Score: 2, Funny

until they start putting systemd into an 'open source' infotainment system and you'll have to clack out garbage like 'enginectl --start --really --noforrealthistime --cylinders 0,1,2,3,4,5' on the touch screen.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-12 16:13 · Score: 3, Interesting

About 7 years back, an auto industry player asked me (well, it was an open contest really) what they should do with in-vehicle computing. I told them they should quit mucking around trying to save $10/unit on embedded systems and go with a standard "real PC" that both has more compute horsepower behind it, and also saves massively on application development. They actually awarded me $2000 for my advice, and apparently promptly ignored it.
Does Ford Make Buggies? by cardpuncher · 2016-10-12 20:32 · Score: 2

Time to blow the dust off my whip-manufacturing line.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by ShooterNeo · 2016-10-13 02:41 · Score: 2

Can I ask what you had in mind for "standard" PC hardware? What kind of processor?
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by operagost · 2016-10-13 04:26 · Score: 2

And where would you put it? How would you cool it?

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