Ford's Buggy Infotainment System Referred To By Engineers As 'Polished Turd' and 'Unsaleable' (computerworld.com)

Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 11:53 · Score: 4, Funny

What did they expect?

Re:Microsoft... by Gr8Apes · 2016-10-12 13:00 · Score: 5, Interesting

True - MS products aren't known as stable reliable systems. Hell, MS OSes even left a whole Navy ship disabled, so why would you think an entertainment system nearly 20 years later would be any better? Their OS hasn't changed measurably underneath the covers, other than lots of bandaids.

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Re:Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 13:17 · Score: 4, Informative

Every time I turn on my Ford truck, here's what I have to do to connect my phone via bluetooth:
1) select AUX
2) press menu
3) scroll to select source
4) click enter
5) scroll to select bluetooth
6) click enter
If while I sit in my truck I turn the vehicle off, turn it back on, I have to do the same thing over again. It doesn't remember shit between vehicle starts.
No usability testing, typical of Microsoft products.
Re: Microsoft... by JeffDeptola · 2016-10-12 13:28 · Score: 2

That was actually cited as a feature. Ford's claim was having it default to your Bluetooth device could have drained user's phone battery if they were unaware they were synced. That being said, it's bulls*** and I want it to sync automatically!
Re: Microsoft... by BLToday · 2016-10-12 13:42 · Score: 1

Really? That's Ford claim for having a terrible UX. My cheapie Prius and ancient Acura do that stuff without noticeable power drain on my phone. Although when the Bluetooth module on my Acura went bad it caused power drain to the car.
Re:Microsoft... by Proudrooster · 2016-10-12 14:00 · Score: 2

The Old Ford Sync, non-touch screen isn't too bad, but the new sync with touch screen needs help. The main problem is that Microsoft never ships finished working software and patches the hell out of everything. Patching software is harder to do with cars where users aren't interested in waiting for their OS to patch and reboot before driving. I have downloaded the Sync patches from Ford and patched quite a few systems and it is a slooooowwww process. Slow = 20 minutes or more to load update and reboot.
I've often thought that instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, automakers should just make a spot in the dash where you can slide in an iPad. iPads are stable, have good touch interfaces, and you can pop them out and take them into the house to patch them then put them back in the car. But what do I know?
I hope this doesn't ding their stock price, I just bought a boatload of F (Ford) betting that they are going to get autonomous vehicles running in the next 10 years. I hope MS isn't their partner. Please don't let it be MS!
On a side note, things aren't much better at BMW where the dealer can actually brick your car with a bad firmware patch. The BMW has multiple embedded systems that all need patching and updates. Cars are now essentially software.
Re:Microsoft... by ConceptJunkie · 2016-10-12 14:13 · Score: 2

You're lucky. At least that works for you. My phone rarely syncs with my Ford's Sync system at all. Meanwhile, in my Kia Sedona, I have no problems ever. In the Ford Fusion, I just use a wire into the headphone jack because BT is usually too much trouble.
As far as being a car goes, I like my Ford Fusion fine, so this is a minor annoyance in general. I'm only (sort of) joking when I say the Fusion is built entirely out of blind spots.

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Re: Microsoft... by AndyMcL · 2016-10-12 15:23 · Score: 4, Informative

I have a 2015 F-150 Lariat. The rest of the truck is awesome. Truly I really love the rest of the truck. Engineering masterpiece and so many details right plus great gas mileage. I would give it 5 out of 5 stars....except the &$-)1#^!! My Ford Touch! I hate it! I am not a person to get too upset over things, but I had to pay $1,500 extra for something that doesn't work well and never will because Ford and MSFT stopped development on it. Also according to Ford there is no upgrade path except to buy a new truck some year in the future. When I turn my truck on it automatically connects via Bluetooth and plays something random....it grabs anything up on iCloud. I've had rap music, kid pop, French language lessons, metal, ....it's always a surprise. The navigation system is comical and pathetic circa late 1990's or early 2000's tech. I will just stop writing right here on this because I am already getting mad thinking about it.
I will never buy another Ford (or other make) without fully testing the infotainment system. Mobile device integration is too important in this day and age. It has to fully support Apple CarPlay and/or Andriod Auto or won't be considered.
I really dislike Ford for also not taking care of recent customers. $1,500 for something flawed and dead ended while my iPhone is half the cost and infinitely better plus getting updated all the time.
Buyer beware! Test it yourself fully before buying. Don't get a Ford until Apple Car Play comes standard (and not by a software update which may never come).
-Andy
Re:Microsoft... by quax · 2016-10-12 15:54 · Score: 1

Seriously, this was so predictable. When they decided to go with MS I knew that there wouldn't be a Ford in my driving future.
Re:Microsoft... by drinkypoo · 2016-10-12 17:33 · Score: 2

I've often thought that instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, automakers should just make a spot in the dash where you can slide in an iPad. iPads are stable, have good touch interfaces, and you can pop them out and take them into the house to patch them then put them back in the car. But what do I know?
That's not a bad idea, but it's not a good idea either. The most obvious objection is that an iPad is not really designed to handle that environment. Another obvious one is that automakers will want control over mounting location and size. In any case, most automakers are already implementing Android Auto and Apple Carplay, and virtually all of them are implementing at least one of these.
I think what's really wanted is a HID-class USB touch screen and a HDMI-pro-connected (with the retention screw, that is) video output. Then you can plug in whatever you like. Of course, this is the opposite of what the automakers want. They want to lock you in.

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Re: Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 20:21 · Score: 1

"it's not a bug it's a feature..."
Re:Microsoft... by Hognoxious · 2016-10-12 23:36 · Score: 1

On a side note, things aren't much better at BMW where the dealer can actually brick your car with a bad firmware patch.

Probably running Linux with systemd.

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Re:Microsoft... by AmiMoJo · 2016-10-12 23:41 · Score: 1

We already have the double DIN standard for head units. Maybe expand it to quad DIN now we want massive touch screens, but if car manufacturers just supported the existing options we wouldn't have this problem. Move the car specific stuff like air-con control to a separate screen.
Another alternative is Mirrorlink or similar tech that lets the phone put its display on the car's screen. It's based on VNC. Some of the better car manufacturers support it. Android Auto similarly allows casting of apps to the screen.

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Re:Microsoft... by AmiMoJo · 2016-10-12 23:47 · Score: 1

I love how on day 2 they call in the big guns at BMW to remotely fix it, and good news it drives now but bad news the radio doesn't work and about that reverse light you came in to get fixed, well now both of them don't work. Customer service!

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Re:Microsoft... by Fuzi719 · 2016-10-13 00:34 · Score: 1

I regularly use Zipcars around Atlanta. They have a mix of Ford Escape and Focus, Mazda, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Subaru. I get to try out the Bluetooth connectivity in all of them. I've never had an issue with the Ford or Mazda models, they work great and once paired, as soon as I get back into the car and start it, the Bluetooth connection is ready to stream music, all call functions, etc. The BMW, Mercedes, and Subaru work nicely, as well, though it amazes me that BMW puts Bluetooth into a $40K+ vehicle standard, but to use audio streaming you'd have to pay extra (which Zipcar doesn't). The cars that just have completely crappy Bluetooth systems is Honda. I have yet to find a Honda vehicle that will reliably connect with Bluetooth on either my LG V10 or my HTC One M8. They refuse to pair, giving various errors or pairing but not actually working. Maybe Honda makes their systems only work with Apple products (a friend's iPhone pairs and works with them) but they don't advertise as being Apple-only, and Bluetooth should work on any system. So, now I avoid using any Honda in Zipcar's inventory.
Re:Microsoft... by StormReaver · 2016-10-13 01:04 · Score: 1, Informative

The parent got moderated as Funny, but I think he was dead serious. When the Ford/Microsoft pairing was first announced years ago, I (and many others) immediately predicted major problems. Everything Microsoft touches turns to shit.
Everything.
Microsoft is the Reverse Midas, and always has been.
Re:Microsoft... by HalAtWork · 2016-10-13 01:13 · Score: 1

Why isn't this rated troll? Honestly I love Linux and have no Windows boxes because I personally don't like their software but it doesn't automatically discount them from being useful somewhere. On any other site this would be considered a troll. Instead it's rated funny, but is very pandering and not really a nuanced joke in any way. Disappointed in Slashdot here.

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Re:Microsoft... by grumpy-cowboy · 2016-10-13 01:17 · Score: 1

My GMC Sierra (most basic model with only 4x4 option) automatically connect with my phone with Bluetooth. Just sayin'. ;)

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Re: Microsoft... by paiute · 2016-10-13 01:22 · Score: 1

My Camry starts up my audiobook from my iPhone via Bluetooth when the engine starts.

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Re:Microsoft... by Catbeller · 2016-10-13 01:32 · Score: 1

Odd. The same comments they made could be applied to self-driving cars, which will certainly be far more buggy than the infotainment screen. Only the SDCs could actually kill you. Why people think the music player would naturally be a piece of useless crap code while the car will be an AI marvel far better than human drivers... explain this to me...
Now for the comments about paranoia, stupidity, Ludditism...
Re:Microsoft... by OneHundredAndTen · 2016-10-13 01:32 · Score: 1

What did they expect?
Indeed. A turd and Microsoft are synonymous. Consider yourself middle-fingered, Microsoft.
Re:Microsoft... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-13 02:00 · Score: 1

Such a thing exists, if only for a specific Subaru.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2098577
Re:Microsoft... by Fire_Wraith · 2016-10-13 02:48 · Score: 1

The Sync system in my 2014 Mustang GT works great, with one exception. About a year in, it stopped playing bluetooth audio from phones. I've tried it with different phones - no luck. Phone calls work perfectly, and the system auto-syncs on startup without issue. The system clearly is communicating, as using the "next track" button works (in that the phone switches to the next track), but no audio at all, nor anything displayed on the Sync screen.

Mostly it's been a minor annoyance in what is otherwise an amazing and fun car - well, aside from the homicidal urges she gets when pedestrians are around, but that's par for the course with a Mustang. ( http://jalopnik.com/its-offici... )
Re: Microsoft... by m00sh · 2016-10-13 03:21 · Score: 1

I have a 2015 F-150 Lariat. The rest of the truck is awesome. Truly I really love the rest of the truck. Engineering masterpiece and so many details right plus great gas mileage. I would give it 5 out of 5 stars....except the &$-)1#^!! My Ford Touch! I hate it! I am not a person to get too upset over things, but I had to pay $1,500 extra for something that doesn't work well and never will because Ford and MSFT stopped development on it. Also according to Ford there is no upgrade path except to buy a new truck some year in the future. When I turn my truck on it automatically connects via Bluetooth and plays something random....it grabs anything up on iCloud. I've had rap music, kid pop, French language lessons, metal, ....it's always a surprise. The navigation system is comical and pathetic circa late 1990's or early 2000's tech. I will just stop writing right here on this because I am already getting mad thinking about it.
I will never buy another Ford (or other make) without fully testing the infotainment system. Mobile device integration is too important in this day and age. It has to fully support Apple CarPlay and/or Andriod Auto or won't be considered.
I really dislike Ford for also not taking care of recent customers. $1,500 for something flawed and dead ended while my iPhone is half the cost and infinitely better plus getting updated all the time.
Buyer beware! Test it yourself fully before buying. Don't get a Ford until Apple Car Play comes standard (and not by a software update which may never come).
-Andy
Why don't you remove it and put a third party infotainment system in there? The only way it is connected to the vehicle is for the random bell dings it does for low fuel. I'm sure third party would support that and back camera.
Have you used other company's offerings? The Mercedes Benz I tried was super terrible. The GPS was more interested in telling me if there was a Subway restaurant in the every exit I drove through than actually doing proper navigation.
Re:Microsoft... by Grishnakh · 2016-10-13 03:25 · Score: 1

Yep, the MyFordTouch stuff was a major reason I didn't bother looking at Fords when I last got a car (even though they had switched away from MS by this time, I was car-shopping in May 2015). That, and also all the reviews slamming the DSG transmissions they were using.
I ended up getting a Mazda. It works great. Zero problems so far (except some asshole scraping the rear bumper when they backed out of a parking space), and Bluetooth works just great. It always auto-connects whenever I restart the car, and even lets me associate multiple devices with it. The system runs on Linux and is easy to get root access to so you can tweak it, and there's a healthy community of modders who have published many tweaks for it. The only downsides are 1) the system is a bit slow (I think it's because they're running on a JavaScript-based UI for some odd reason), and 2) it doesn't support Android Auto officially yet (there is an unofficial mod for it that adds this though--use at your own risk).
Re: Microsoft... by Grishnakh · 2016-10-13 03:28 · Score: 1

The high belt lines in modern cars are necessary for crash protection. They're not really a problem though as long as you get blind-spot monitors. But there's no way I'd get a modern car now without BSM and a rearview camera.
Re:Microsoft... by Grishnakh · 2016-10-13 03:35 · Score: 1

You might be right about Hondas only working well with iPhones. My mom has a '15 Odyssey and an iPhone (5-something), and I had zero problems getting them to sync for her. But I never tried it with my Samsung. If this is the case, that's rather disappointing.
That bit about BMW is rather galling, but somehow I'm not too surprised. The more I hear about those cars, the less I would ever want one; they just seem to be designed to extract as much money from owners as possible. I've been really happy with my '15 Mazda3: well-engineered, drives wonderfully, fantastic fuel economy, I really don't have any serious complaints though the infotainment system could be a bit less laggy. Oh yeah, Bluetooth works great in it, paired to my Galaxy S5.
Re:Microsoft... by operagost · 2016-10-13 03:46 · Score: 1

I had no idea. I have a Kenwood stereo that automatically connects, and a Jabra speakerphone that does the same. Never even bother to switch it on or off, it just reconnects once I'm in the car.

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Re: Microsoft... by operagost · 2016-10-13 03:53 · Score: 1

You're talking about icloud, so you must have an iPhone but I must note I had the same problem with an Android phone and a non-Ford Bluetooth speakerphone, and it was the fault of Android. Android apparently has a "feature" that can't be turned off, where if you attach a sound device it automatically plays sound files. I had to install a shim program that auto-selects sources, simply to block it. It might not be a Ford thing.

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Re:Microsoft... by Gr8Apes · 2016-10-13 04:04 · Score: 1

Their OS hasn't changed measurably underneath the covers, other than lots of bandaids.
So you are asserting that Windows 95-era machines are substantively the same as Windows 7? Have you ever used pre-Windows 2000 machines, or are you just piling on the bandwagon of anti-"M$" hate here?
I'm guessing you've never had to diagnose why a "plug-and-pray" device was not working, and think that shield icon next to some menu options is just a weird graphical bug.
These were Windows NT servers. If all I ever had to debug was a PNP issue, I'd probably still use Windows as a daily OS.

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Re:Microsoft... by Gr8Apes · 2016-10-13 04:07 · Score: 1

A sailor entered a 0 which created a divide by 0 state that somehow even a reboot of the OS didn't clear, nor a complete shutdown and reboot of the entire system. Note that it didn't take down just 1 app or 1 computer, but the entire network of computers. Seems like more than just an app problem there.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Re: Microsoft... by ndavis · 2016-10-13 04:11 · Score: 1

I thought the 2015 F150 models had the updated Blackberry system which is rated very well. I agree the MS Sync system is terrible I have it in my Focus and it has even crashed while driving. Luckily I never use the Navigation and my car has buttons for all the same systems.
Re:Microsoft... by Alioth · 2016-10-13 04:43 · Score: 2

The best one I had was a Chevrolet rental car. The Bluetooth device list was full (it only allows 5), but trying to delete any of the devices left by previous renters did nothing. We tried turning the car off, trying it with the engine stopped, trying it parked with the engine running etc, but no difference. The UI went through all of the motions of deleting it, but didn't actually delete it. Googling brought the following procedure to reset the system. Stop the car, turn it off. Open the drivers door. Wait for 5 minutes with the drivers door open. Close the drivers door. Turn the car back on again.
It actually worked. It was bizarre. We could now remove the old bluetooth devices from the list.
It even remembered and automatically connected with my phone afterwards too.

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Re: Microsoft... by Grishnakh · 2016-10-13 04:49 · Score: 1

How is that different from anyone else.
Because not everyone else is like this. You don't see this crap very much in the embedded world, especially for safety-critical stuff. Avionics systems sure as hell aren't like this, and there's plenty of software-driven systems in modern cars which aren't like this either (ECUs, electric power steering systems (EPS), ABS/TCC/DST systems, SRS systems, I could go on and on. In most modern cars, these systems all work just fine and don't need continuous updates, it's just shitty GUI-based crap that does.
Re:Microsoft... by Grishnakh · 2016-10-13 05:00 · Score: 1

Android? I thought Ford switched from MS to QNX for their Sync systems.
As for assembly, I'm constantly glad my most recent car (well, plus most of my older cars too) was made in good ol' Japan. There's been several problems with the Mexican-built version of my Mazda, but the Japanese ones are usually problem-free (and mine has been completely problem-free; I always check when someone has a complaint about anything on the forum I frequent). I had toyed with the idea of trying out an American-made car this time around, but after the GM ignition switch fiasco, and then two giant problems with Fords (1: the problematic DSG transmissions, 2: the MyFordTouch debacle), plus constant quality problems with Chryslers (plus a lack of desirable cars from them), I decided against that. I'm really glad I stuck with Japanese-made.
(BTW, the one exception I've had was a 2005 Volvo, made in Belgium. That's been a great car too. The only thing I really don't like about it is that I haven't been able to get a service manual for it, probably because it's not such a mass-market car as my Mazda and doesn't have the enthusiast/DIY appeal this car does. The only other exceptions are the 70s/80s/early 90s GM and Ford cars my family had when I was young: holy shit, those cars were total garbage.)
Re:Microsoft... by Grishnakh · 2016-10-13 05:05 · Score: 1

Yep, but interesting how this doesn't stop people from continuing to use their crap all the time. Anyone who knows tech could have foretold a debacle when Ford partnered with MS, but that didn't stop one of the world's largest automakers from doing so, nor did it stop millions and millions of people from buying that crap (including a bunch of Slashdotters, complaining right here in this discussion today about how they love their Ford XYZ but absolutely despise the MS-based infotainment system in it--you didn't know this was going to be a big problem before you bought the car???).
Honestly, I think humans as a group are either actually insane, or far more stupid than I could have ever believed. Problems with MS software are nothing new (not to mention all their evil business dealings--"DOS ain't done 'til Lotus won't run"), and yet people continue to buy and use their software, somehow thinking "it'll be different this time!!"
Re:Microsoft... by DutchSter · 2016-10-13 05:17 · Score: 1

And don't forget having to put up with snazzy (read: slow) animations as it transitions from one screen to another and no ability to speed things up by rapidly pressing the needed buttons before the screen catches up.
Re:Microsoft... by rogoshen1 · 2016-10-13 05:22 · Score: 1

really? i have a 2014 fusion with myford touch, and an iphone 5s. it works pretty much flawlessly every single time (referring to spotify playing and the steering wheel controls changing tracks/pausing etc.)
(interestingly enough it did NOT work nearly as well when i had a windows phone)
Re:Microsoft... by steveg · 2016-10-13 05:38 · Score: 1

That's correct. MFT continued to be sold up until the 2016 model year, which is the first year that the QNX version (Sync 3) came out. I don't know if Sync 3 has been rolled out all across their line though.

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Re:Microsoft... by GrumpySteen · 2016-10-13 06:24 · Score: 1

What you describe wouldn't be caused by the OS. It would be caused by the program placing the bad data in non-volatile storage and trying to use the data again when it's re-launched after crashing.
Re:Microsoft... by Gr8Apes · 2016-10-13 06:29 · Score: 2

If it were only that simple. However, the entire system, multiple computers and all which was supposedly hardened specifically for this application (running the vessel) failed to even come up on reboot IIRC. There were multiple stories about this released at the time, and the problems were deeper than that "bad data" being placed in non-volatile storage. I don't recall the exact specifics, but something about the OS being compromised and rendered inoperable was what I believe occurred. i.e., corrupted system files. That definitely is an OS issue, especially across multiple systems that are supposed to be redundant and able to withstand a node loss.

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Re: Microsoft... by Alypius · 2016-10-13 07:18 · Score: 1

I thought that was a Betamax joke
Re:Microsoft... by Alypius · 2016-10-13 07:26 · Score: 1

I have a 13 Accord that has never failed to sync with my S3 or S5. Once or twice it's mysteriously reset the text-reading preferences with hilarious/absurd results: "Do you want to sync this phone?" Yes. "You have new messages. Would you like to check them?" Yes. "Blocked. Please park the car before reading messages." You mean like the three I've just read? Thanks, Honda.
Re:Microsoft... by mjwx · 2016-10-13 07:37 · Score: 1

Every time I turn on my Ford truck, here's what I have to do to connect my phone via bluetooth: 1) select AUX 2) press menu 3) scroll to select source 4) click enter 5) scroll to select bluetooth 6) click enter
If while I sit in my truck I turn the vehicle off, turn it back on, I have to do the same thing over again. It doesn't remember shit between vehicle starts. No usability testing, typical of Microsoft products.
I rented a Citroen C1 when I first started working here in the UK, after setting up the bluetooth on my phone (nexus 5X) here is what I had to do to connect it:
1) Turn on the car.
That was pretty much it. I had a harder time finding a decent audio app that would use the folder structure over the ID3 tags (which are bad to non-existent on my music collection)... Even then I'd hardly describe that task as difficult. The C1 is a cheap French hatchback with a 1L engine that sells for 7,500 GBP.

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Re:Microsoft... by arglebargle_xiv · 2016-10-13 22:07 · Score: 1

Every time I turn on my Ford truck, here's what I have to do to connect my phone via bluetooth:
You're holding your truck wrong.
Re:Microsoft... by thoughtlover · 2016-10-18 13:33 · Score: 1

Yeah, so the general consensus seems to be that it's MS' fault.
I think it's a problem in Ford's corporate-culture... Just like Samsung, it may be difficult-to-impossible to criticize anything based on the possible loss of one's job.
Regardless, someone's gonna get the pink slip.

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Re: Microsoft... by Mattcelt · 2016-10-19 06:26 · Score: 1

This is my single biggest complaint about the iPhone - there is NO option to prevent a device from requesting play to start. I rented a Camry recently (though I've had the exact same issue with Ford/Lincoln, GM, and other brands) and had to add an Activator trigger upon bluetooth connection to enable StopPlayin', wait 15 seconds, and disable it so it wouldn't blow my ears out and scare the shite out of me when I started the car.
Of course, I'd also like to draw and quarter the langering fuckwanks who decided that the appropriate behaviour when an audio source is disconnected is to IMMEDIATELY START BLASTING THE RADIO AT THE SAME VOLUME AS THE LAST SOURCE with no option to disable it.

A bad Ford product? by barc0001 · 2016-10-12 11:55 · Score: 2, Insightful

This is my shocked face. I've owned 2 Fords, and as far as I am concerned, that was 2 too many.

Re:A bad Ford product? by Snotnose · 2016-10-12 13:36 · Score: 2

When I was young and stupid, and had a car that required refilling the radiator every 20 miles, I went to a Ford dealership and got sold an 87 Escort. Biggest pile of shit I've ever owned. Within 2 years I'd replaced every light bulb on the car. The cruise control installed by the dealer (Pearson Ford at Fairmont and El Cajon) kept coming unscrewed and would hang down as gravity took over. Battery died with no warning 2-3 years in, fortunately it was a manual clutch so I got a stranger to push start me. I'd never had comprehensive insurance, they sold me a 1 year plan for over $1k. After a year I went to renew it and found out that A) it only covered the car, not me, my passengers, nor any damage done; and B) I could have a proper insurance plan for $200. The car itself was shit. The floorpan rusted out, when it rained your feet got wet. At 80k miles the fanbelt squealed, mechanic pointed out the crankshaft pulley was wobbling, which is Never A Good Sign. The driver's seat broke so I was driving in a reclining position (this got a recall after I'd sold the car but before I bitched at the dealer for it). Fuckers ripped me off, they closed some 10 years back and move to Miramar road. Been driving imports (Infiniti rocks) ever since, I'll never buy an American car again.
Re:A bad Ford product? by David_Hart · 2016-10-12 15:36 · Score: 1

When I was young and stupid, and had a car that required refilling the radiator every 20 miles, I went to a Ford dealership and got sold an 87 Escort. Biggest pile of shit I've ever owned. Within 2 years I'd replaced every light bulb on the car. The cruise control installed by the dealer (Pearson Ford at Fairmont and El Cajon) kept coming unscrewed and would hang down as gravity took over. Battery died with no warning 2-3 years in, fortunately it was a manual clutch so I got a stranger to push start me. I'd never had comprehensive insurance, they sold me a 1 year plan for over $1k. After a year I went to renew it and found out that A) it only covered the car, not me, my passengers, nor any damage done; and B) I could have a proper insurance plan for $200. The car itself was shit. The floorpan rusted out, when it rained your feet got wet. At 80k miles the fanbelt squealed, mechanic pointed out the crankshaft pulley was wobbling, which is Never A Good Sign. The driver's seat broke so I was driving in a reclining position (this got a recall after I'd sold the car but before I bitched at the dealer for it).
Fuckers ripped me off, they closed some 10 years back and move to Miramar road.
Been driving imports (Infiniti rocks) ever since, I'll never buy an American car again.
In 1991/92 I bought a used 1986 Mercury Lynx Sport 4-cylinder manual (same base as the Escort). It was a reliable car all through university and a couple of years after. Battery went a couple of years after I got it, but it was 5 years old at that point. Plus, as a manual, it was easy to push start. The engine computer also went but that was an easy and inexpensive fix.
Just as I was about to get rid of it, I had a similar problem as you with leaking water. I finally found the source when I was cleaning and waxing it to sell, after I got a 1995 Mustang (loved that car...). I never knew it at the time, but these cars were known for rusting at the top of the foot well that extended into the engine bay. The top lip would hold water, rust out, and then the floors would get wet. The water wouldn't drip, like you would expect, but it simply ran down the back of the carpeting. I'm guessing that you never knew that it was actually leaking at the top and not from underneath. Once the floor got wet, this would cause the foot wells to rust out.
Re:A bad Ford product? by barc0001 · 2016-10-12 19:34 · Score: 1

My first Ford was a badly beaten up '75 Mustang II with a 6 cylinder and a 4 speed stick - of which 2nd gear didn't engage so shifting was 1-3-4. I bought it for $200 so I wasn't expecting much to be honest. But even with that, that thing managed to disappoint me. When I bought it the driver's side window was missing so I got another at a wrecker and then spent 4 hours putting it in. This was a job I had done on other cars in less than an hour. It wasn't stuck nuts/bolts or anything like that, it was just bad design like whoever laid the door out never expected someone would ever have to replace the glass so it was a massive chore that required nearly taking the door completely apart. Same deal with the engine, the engine bay was too damn small to comfortably work on anything, and to get at just about anything you had to take off hoses and belts. After about 6 months of driving it the clutch seized and I couldn't be arsed to fix it so I had it towed for scrap and got $75 of my original investment on the deal.
Next and final Ford was a Tempo, 86 or 87 I think with an automatic transmission. Don't really remember the year. Bought it off a relative. Don't *EVER* buy a car off a relative as an aside. Two days after I get it, it starts randomly shutting the engine off while driving. Sometimes it would start right up again, other times you'd wait up to an hour and it starts again. Several trips to the garage later (where most of the time they couldn't reproduce the problem) it's finally revealed one of the controller boards has a minuscule crack in it and when it shorts out it thinks someone's stealing the car and kills the engine. So, that gets fixed. Then a few months later the radiator core lets go on the freeway on a drive across town. This was a car that at the time was less than 9 years old. So that gets fixed. Then, about a year later the transmission makes a weird lurch when I take off from a stop light. I take it in, the transmission guy says it looks OK and he can't reproduce the issue or find anything wrong from his external inspections - short of pulling the transmission apart - no filings in the transmission fluid, etc. So I drive away and 2 days later the transmission makes the same lurch, then a noise like a cat playing with a blender, and the car loses all propulsion. Towed it to the transmission guy, he opens the pan and pieces just rain out. $1500 later, car works again. Drive it another 6 months it starts blowing blue smoke so we're now looking at serious engine work. Drove it to a Hyundai dealership, traded it in and got a used Accent - stick shift. That Tempo was the first and last automatic car I have owned.
Drove that Hyundai for almost 10 years, great car. Bought another one and drove that for 11 years before trading it in and trying a Mazda 3. Also great car. Screw domestic cars, especially Ford.
Bonus - friend of mine was borrowing his brother's 2001 Focus while his brother was out of the country. Over at my place and he's got to head home. Goes out to the car, knocks on my door 20 minutes later saying "The car won't start. Again. It does this thing where sometimes it won't start and you have to wait a while". He waits another hour, tries again, it doesn't start. I drive him home. He comes back the next day, still doesn't start. He has it towed to the dealer. It's a known problem with the ignition, but the car is out of warranty except for the drivetrain warranty and according to the dealer the ignition isn't part of the drivetrain. Ford USA is doing free replacements on this problem even out of warranty, but we're in Canada and Ford Canada says screw you man, pay $1000 to get it fixed. So he pays, what choice does he have?
Fuck Ford.
Re:A bad Ford product? by AntronArgaiv · 2016-10-13 00:28 · Score: 1

I never knew it at the time, but these cars were known for rusting at the top of the foot well that extended into the engine bay. The top lip would hold water, rust out, and then the floors would get wet. The water wouldn't drip, like you would expect, but it simply ran down the back of the carpeting. I'm guessing that you never knew that it was actually leaking at the top and not from underneath. Once the floor got wet, this would cause the foot wells to rust out.
My family had Fords in the 70s. They were also famous for rusting out at the bottom of the doors as well. The fix was to spray motorcycle chain lube into the drain holes and let it flow into the bottom door seam. Never had a problem after I learned that.
Betcha wish you still had that 65 'stang, huh? Best car Ford ever made...if you had the manual transmission. Their automatics were shit.
I buy Toyotas now. They don't rust. They don't die. They just keep running.
Wife has a Jeep Wrangler. A hoot to drive, but the engineering is the best combined efforts of Fiat and Chrysler engineers...about as shit as it sounds.
Re:A bad Ford product? by MitchDev · 2016-10-13 01:15 · Score: 1

Found on Road Dead?
Personally I prefer the Fiat acronyms:
Fix it again Tony!
or
Futile Italian Attempt at Technology
Re:A bad Ford product? by KlomDark · 2016-10-13 03:27 · Score: 1

Flipped-Over Rotten Dog was my favorite.
Re:A bad Ford product? by operagost · 2016-10-13 04:11 · Score: 1

Because I'm sure new Fords in 2016 are exactly like used ones in 1987.
Frankly, early Hyundais were terrible. You were lucky. It's not hard to find people who got screwed on them.

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Re:A bad Ford product? by Alioth · 2016-10-13 04:49 · Score: 1

Ironically, the Escort wasn't an American car, it was a rebadged Mazda.

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Re:A bad Ford product? by painandgreed · 2016-10-13 04:49 · Score: 1

Frankly, early Hyundais were terrible. You were lucky. It's not hard to find people who got screwed on them.
I'm one of those. Bought a used early Hyundai (must have been pre '92) and everything seemed to fall apart. had less than 80k miles but it was in the shop ever other month for something. Turn signals, transmission, engine, etc. When I finally traded it in, the odometer and speedometer didn't work. Neither did 2nd or 4th gear. The only good thing about it was it was easy to change headlights, which was good because they burned out every 6 months. It was the cause of so much frustration that I'll never buy another Hyundai no matter how good they are currently.
Of course, for my next car, I did more research and I can tell you that I went to every used car dealer in a 30 mile radius in a large city and literally every small economic car they had was on the Consumer Reports lemon list. It's the only time I've ever seen a Yugo and when I was sitting it in bits were coming off in my hand just by trying to close the door and roll up the window. I bought a brand new Toyota car in '94 and it still hasn't been in the shop for anything.
Re:A bad Ford product? by Grishnakh · 2016-10-13 05:10 · Score: 1

Wife has a Jeep Wrangler. A hoot to drive, but the engineering is the best combined efforts of Fiat and Chrysler engineers...about as shit as it sounds.
Yep, and a ridiculously inflated price tag too. Jeeps are like Harley Davidsons: horrible engineering, shit quality, and gigantic price tags. The only reason to buy one is "It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand". Yeah, I guess I'm weird for not understanding why I should pay a lot of money for something with horrible quality and horrible engineering when I can get something else that's far better for less money.
Re:A bad Ford product? by barc0001 · 2016-10-13 06:08 · Score: 1

I had a 75 Ford, an 86 or 87 Ford, my friend had a 2001 Ford, and just a couple of weeks ago we had a story here in Canada about a guy who wasn't able to find a part to fix his 2009 F150 - which is apparently the most prolific Ford vehicle sold in North America:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ford-f150-auto-parts-obsolete-go-public-1.3746577
"The heating system on his 2009 truck suddenly failed, blowing only extremely hot air on the passenger side — so hot, no one could sit in the passenger seat.
But the biggest problem? It can't be fixed.
"It's crazy," says Rubner. "My truck is only seven years old.""
So that's 35 years of consistent *crap* behavior and unreliability from Ford. Even if they have managed to turn the ship around - and considering that we are discussing this in an article devoted to how their recent cars infotainment systems are unusable that doesn't appear to be the case - based on that history I'm sure as hell not going to give them another chance.
And let's look at Hyundai by comparison. In the 80s, the Pony was synonymous with cheap crap imports. The Scoupe of the early 90s that got replaced by the Accent was OKish, the 94 Accent I bought was a great budget car with few features but worked well enough. The 2003 Accent I bought was a fantastic car - again budget but with more features. I would have bought another Hyundai instead of my Mazda but they didn't have a model of the Elantra with a nav system (the tech package) that was a stick shift, only automatics, and I don't like automatics so I looked elsewhere.
So to recap, Ford was shit in the 70s, and they're shit now. Hyundai was Super Shit in the early 80s, and now they're fantastic. Both companies have a rep and a track record but only one of them is a good track record.
Re:A bad Ford product? by barc0001 · 2016-10-13 06:15 · Score: 1

As I mentioned to operagost, the early Hyundais were a travesty. I worked with a guy who had a mid 80s Pony and the thing was a joke. But rather than taking the domestic car makers approach and believing their shit didn't stink, Hyundai recognized they had a problem and went through a massive improvement program and by the mid 90s when I got my first Accent, they'd practically turned night into day for reliability. My 2003 Accent that I had for 11 years, not a single problem. The only expenses were gas, oil changes and scheduled maintenance on it the whole time I owned it.
Re:A bad Ford product? by toddestan · 2016-10-16 15:09 · Score: 1

In the 80's, the USA Ford Escort was a 100% Ford product. This is not to be confused with other cars being sold around the world under the Escort brand, which while styled similarly to the USA Escort, were actually different cars. In 1990, they replaced the Ford Escort with a reskinned 323, which was a much better car.
Re:A bad Ford product? by AntronArgaiv · 2016-10-19 00:49 · Score: 1

Well, she bought it used, which took some of the sting out of the cost.
Pretty much the same price as a Camry, with none of the advantages...except the top comes down, the doors come off and it's 4WD.
The 4WD is actually relevant, as we live in New England and at the top of a hill negotiable only by 4WD when it gets snowy and icy. ...I'll agree with your "shit quality" comment, though.
(The lighting is computer controlled and the code appears to have been written by Italian monkeys...the lights do something different every time
you shut the car off!)
Re:A bad Ford product? by Grishnakh · 2016-10-19 12:34 · Score: 1

If you're worried about snow and ice, a Subaru is the car to get these days. High quality, good fuel economy, and full-time AWD.
I do doubt your claim about 4WD being necessary though: modern FWD cars with traction control should do just fine. Most people who think they "need" 4WD in reality don't. Maybe you're right, but unless you've actually tried driving on the hill with a modern car, you could very well be operating under obsolete assumptions.

Can we sue Honda too? by mea_culpa · 2016-10-12 12:00 · Score: 1

The navigation system and most other functions in my 2012 Civic are useless when the car is moving making the crappy voice recognition more distracting and dangerous IMO. Other models have a hidden 'operator restrictions override' function but in this model they went out of their way to make it impossible.

Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-12 16:13 · Score: 3, Interesting

About 7 years back, an auto industry player asked me (well, it was an open contest really) what they should do with in-vehicle computing. I told them they should quit mucking around trying to save $10/unit on embedded systems and go with a standard "real PC" that both has more compute horsepower behind it, and also saves massively on application development. They actually awarded me $2000 for my advice, and apparently promptly ignored it.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by ShooterNeo · 2016-10-13 02:41 · Score: 2

Can I ask what you had in mind for "standard" PC hardware? What kind of processor?
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by operagost · 2016-10-13 04:26 · Score: 2

And where would you put it? How would you cool it?

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Re:Can we sue Honda too? by ShooterNeo · 2016-10-13 04:49 · Score: 1

And how would you deal with the power consumption? 7 years ago, even low power PCs sucked down 40+ watts for the CPU+GPU. SSDs were just starting to even become a thing. You need a GPU to have smoothly scrolling navigation maps and basic animations, especially since you'd be forced to use a very low power, low performance processor.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by Carewolf · 2016-10-13 05:00 · Score: 1

And where would you put it? How would you cool it?
In the car, and using the built-in cooler all cars have, because engines also doesn't work over 100C.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by ShooterNeo · 2016-10-13 12:58 · Score: 1

Well, then what about the cost? The component difference to embed what is basically a laptop PC is a lot more cost than using the chips found in smartphones. _Especially_ 7 years ago.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-13 16:10 · Score: 1

Laptop class chips, like you find in MacMinis, Intel NUCs. There are Broadwell chips these days that consume less than 5 watts. The motherboards, complete with RAM and graphics fit in a single-height DIN slot where the radios go, with space leftover. Even if this weren't the case, a manufacturer could find space for a bigger board if they really wanted to, but they don't need to.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-13 16:12 · Score: 1

MacMinis were less than $500 7 years ago, and the roadmaps were very clear where things were going... sub 10 watt "Core" systems arrived a few years ago, and anybody who was developing products 7 years ago knew that was coming.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-13 16:13 · Score: 1

That's almost a viable solution today. Pi is still a little on the weak side, but a hell of a lot better than the embedded junk that so much of the "cost sensitive" industry is still inexplicably hanging on to.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-13 16:15 · Score: 1

Sleep when the engine is off, active cooling if you have to, but you really don't. Laptop class CPUs, even 7 years ago, don't put put any more heat than an audio amplifier from the 1980s, and those managed to work reliably for decades.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by ShooterNeo · 2016-10-14 02:07 · Score: 1

What OS would you use? Would your answer be different today?
Would you use Android today? Android has the advantages of a large developer pool and a large body behind it keeping it updated. You can get inexpensive broadwell ARM chips today that consume less than 5 watts like you say - aren't those broadwell chips you named ARM?
ARM architecture limits your options, standard Linux distros work on Arm but are not as well supported as they are on x86. Microsoft's shit also has an arm build, with similar support problems.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-14 16:01 · Score: 1

Part of the company's focus was on integration with cell phone functionality... and the points raised above re: phones update on a virtually annual cycle did come up. As such, integrating with Android would be tempting, unless you want to work with that other major phone OS that sells to people who spend money more freely.
In my view, the OS's function is to provide a constant interface to changing hardware, so the application level software doesn't have to be rewritten for every chip update. Beyond that, it should shut the hell up, do its job and get out of sight. Windows 10 is failing big on this front, lately. Back 7 years ago... I probably still would have leaned toward Ubuntu or Gentoo-becoming-Arch, not because they are magic, but because they're good enough to do the job at hand.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-14 16:04 · Score: 1

Oh, re: Broadwell, no Intel's Broadwell is their Core (i3/5/7) 5th generation, the one before the current Skylakes. Intel has taken a weird turn with Skylake, there seem to be a lot of reasons to stay back at Broadwell, including power consumption.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by ShooterNeo · 2016-10-14 17:50 · Score: 1

My bad. I thought you meant BroadCOM, a cheap SOC, the one that Raspberry Pis use. Now, to be fair, it is a part that costs just a few dollars and it has a gigabyte of RAM inside it. Also sips ~2.5W.
I'm also an embedded systems engineer, though I work on more specialized stuff. In my mind, though, the nobrainer thing to do for a car was to use an embedded ARM SOC - one of the power sipping ones - and use that to light up the display. I'd want to design the "front end" to use an embedded version of android, _disconnected_ from outside networks. Various systems I've worked on, that's always my first choice. I think Android is great because it has a huge amount of supported middleware and libraries built for it, and you can easily hire a contractor to spruce up your GUI and make it really pop.
I do the embedded controls on separate systems. I'm not an EE, though I do light board design, but my favorite thing to do is to dedicate a separate microcontroller to every significant task. Some of the 8 and 12 pin PICs are great for this.
Well, to be fair, in a car that's kind of needed on the spec sheet. This is an issue - especially if you use Android. Android has the problem that it's in so many hands that hackers will know how to get into your car because they reuse the same exploit discovered on phones. QNX would be more secure even if the software had just as many vulnerabilities because there's less hackers looking for them.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-15 17:17 · Score: 1

I'm just going to take a pot-shot here and observe that you think they should use the stuff that you work on every day... I'm kind of the same way - but my reasoning is that the stuff I work on every day (more "desktop class" PCs and OSs) has a couple of orders of magnitude more developers working on them, the tool chains are more developed, the platforms are more standardized, and more capable. And, we're hitting convergence where a 2.5W BroadCom ARM chip is within spitting distance of the 5W Intel Core chips in terms of compute power, OS and dev tools compatibility, standard interfaces, etc.
I would never recommend Windows in such an application, though I work at a shop where we're doing just that - because it's what the majority of the developers know and they'd rather stick with what they're familiar with than learn something similar that can operate in ALL OSs... Interestingly, they already acknowledge Windows' shortcomings, last generation they had a DSP doing some "heavy lifting" to avoid real-time processing problems in Windows. This go around we've got a real-time Linux on an Intel core doing the same thing - while Windows drives the GUI and maybe a printer. All the dev systems are flaking out this week as they're being force-fed the latest Windows 10 update - we'll go embedded eventually and hopefully get better control of that, but that in itself is a whole learning curve and configuration management problem.
They all can work, sooner or later I hope that Android BSPs get tamed well enough that they're just another checkbox that you hardly have to think about, like BIOS in the desktop world.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by ShooterNeo · 2016-10-16 00:33 · Score: 1

A couple magnitudes? Really?
The reason Android is good is because it's a monolithic system that has been thoroughly tested with over a billion users... Linux is this fragmented mess and you have a lot more trouble getting even basic stuff to work since the procedure differs depending on the build.
It's same logic. There's more developers and comparable numbers of tools working on Android today than desktop Linux, which is what the front end of a car is.
Also, Android comes crammed with a bunch of OS level shiny animations and effects and conventions. You can follow the same conventions for your car GUI so users who know how to use their phones can use it.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-16 01:09 · Score: 1

Yes,. really a couple of magnitudes - when you compare desktop to embedded development. Now, I'm saying nothing about the average/median quality of developer you get in each environment - desktop has a ton more "placeholder developer staff" than embedded, mostly because they can still muddle through with the tools, resources and support that's available and get something useful done, whereas: if you suck in embedded, it becomes painfully apparent rather quickly and you don't get re-hired (many actually have the good sense not to get into it in the first place, or at least don't try to stick with it because it's "scary.") It's because the land of desktop developers is so large, and diverse in skill level, that IDEs like Visual Studio - QtCreator have come so far, as well as the free support that's available on the web.
Android (phone in general) is a stranger bird - tons of users and developers at the "app level" - though if you're counting "apps in the store", a lot of those apps are superficial / trivial stuff when you get down to what they really do. Getting Android out of the phone and into an embedded solution is much more of a trip to BSP/embedded land than deploying desktop OS software into embedded systems that can handle it. I must admit, I've got a bit of bad taste in my mouth from Eclipse because I used it for C++ development on Altera/NIOS FPGA embedded processors, I understand it's much better developed for Java. Still, when I've worked with embedded systems that run a desktop OS, I (and the whole team) can develop on any piece of commodity hardware - nobody gets stuck fighting over the 5 buggy development systems, learning their quirks that we put up with because there just aren't enough prototype systems available to work with.
Linux is only a fragmented mess if you want it to be - stick with a reasonable Debian or Yum based distro, and don't un-necessarily customize your hardware too much, and it's really kind of a joy to use - when you're missing a dependency, just install a tested version from the repository - if they're too stale for you, there's the option of getting bleeding edge packages from the developers, but that's becoming less and less necessary as the years roll on. With a tiny bit of discipline, you can develop a list of dependencies into a script that patches the standard distro in one step for any developer on the system - I find that aspect to be superior to the Windows experience. Now, getting compatible hardware/drivers for Linux is quite a bit more challenging than for Windows, but still easier than embedded.
All in all, I prefer the "confederation of independent systems" approach you described a few posts back, and it seems to me that a network of BroadCOM based systems (Pi-like) is rapidly entering the realm of economic feasibility for a lot of projects - but, at the same time, 4 and 8 core Intel systems can install a Hypervisor and get "virtual independence" in a single sub-$1K off-the-shelf module. Either configuration would support the "run your desktop(s) IN the embedded system" approach. I suppose Java-on-phone is starting to converge as a near-desktop-like platform, but I don't see it being as developer friendly, yet.
So much depends on your background/prior experience. I've got co-workers who consider anything outside of Visual Studio "scary chaos land."
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by ShooterNeo · 2016-10-16 01:45 · Score: 1

Yeah, I find the actual process of OS configuration for Linux scary like that. And I hate the unnecessary steps out of the box distros force you to do that you don't have to do in Windows. Like the +chmod shit to modify your actual binary files to be executable. WTF is that about? How does that secure anything? Malware is still possible, and if I downloaded an executable binary I am going to run it. Why force me to jump through an extra hoop?
I understand that when the project requires it, you deal with the pain. I did a control system recently where the project required using TI DSPs with their absolutely awful, Eclipse based Code Composer. Just awful. But the actual circuit board needed to go in a harsh environment and the specific chip used is known functional under those conditions. It probably doubled the development time, fighting the tools and dependencies and TI's awful, near bare metal approach to hardware abstraction.
Anyways, see, the front end is just a bunch of shiny buttons and animations for most embedded systems. You can pass the state of that panel to another device that actually does the real work. I think of it an analogous to an illuminated 9 digit keyboard that you can wire the pins from the switches direct to a microcontroller. Just fancier.
So while yes you can use Qt for Linux, the latest android middleware is sexier. It LOOKS better. And you can hire some contractors to pimp out your GUI and make it really pop. And since every middleware tool made for phones will work - such as for vector based animations and graphics, that kind of thing - you can make it look great. Just use a SOC that has a BSP that supports Android, one that ships in a major phone.
Re:Can we sue Honda too? by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-16 14:15 · Score: 1

I guess you just get used to the Linux permissions thing on the file system - I agree, it's more of a PITA than actual security, but once you're used to it, sudo chmod -R 777 ./* is always there if you need it ;-P
I'll give Android points on the "sexy" front, and that's all about being integrated with the phone developers who are setting the styling trends. Widgets will be back when the fashion wheel takes another turn... meanwhile, Qt is playing catchup with "Quick," which, for the life of me, is the slowest GUI development system I've ever seen, and I absolutely LOVE (no sarcasm, really) throwing together Widget UIs in QtCreator - so, you would think they'd try to make Quick accessible to me? I guess I'm still Java impaired, even javascript.
That UI as a fancy face on a couple of parameter controls is exactly what I've been trying to drive home in my designs for the last seven years or so... you can actually develop multiple UIs, all synchronized with each other and controlling the same thing - then present the "appropriate face in the appropriate place" while the "engine" just responds to the parameter controls.

bet the "marketing requirements" were the original by dltaylor · 2016-10-12 12:04 · Score: 3, Insightful

It will be interesting if there's public disclosure of the marketing requirements doc, not to mention the purchasing input. The former are likely to be a mass of mutually-exclusive bullet items, with no input beyond magic to resolve the contradictions, and the latter will have no allowance in the cost of goods for hardware (and WHY THE HELL MICROSOFT?) for the inevitable feature creep, so there's no way it could ever have worked.

I own one, it's horrible by skaag · 2016-10-12 12:10 · Score: 5, Insightful

It's really pretty bad. I wish it was easy to replace, and that there was an open source project to replace it. The moment I saw that Microsoft bezel under the infotainment system, I knew it was trouble. Hopefully this lawsuit forces Ford to replace every single one of them with something more usable.

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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...

Re:I own one, it's horrible by steveg · 2016-10-12 12:21 · Score: 1

A previous time this came up, an anonymous poster claimed to be one of the engineers that worked on the interface. According to him, it was not the Microsoft nature of the system that was at fault, but insufficient hardware resources and the decision to build the interface in Flash.
There were a lot of complaints about how unintuitive the interface was, but I disagree strongly with that. The interface is fine. If only it worked reliably. I've had it crash while going down the road, and the music subsystem re-indexes if you look at it hard (which means it's essentially unusable for 5 or 10 minutes.) I've worked out some procedures that minimize that problem, but if you forget, or if it just feels cantankerous, it'll reset itself.

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Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by Puls4r · 2016-10-12 12:34 · Score: 1

You may have one of the later systems. I have one of the early, and the menu navigation is impossible. Go forward into one menu, then go back, and you are in a DIFFERENT menu branch.

There is no logic to it. It's what happens when you have pure engineers design an interface component instead of people with common sense.

Ford deserves to be actually fried for this, but they won't LEARN from it. For instance - they had an android integration app that allowed many google apps to communicate with sync. They killed it though. Their internal reasoning was that they wanted to monetize the data. As a result the customers have been screwed over for 6 years.

I continue to use my smart phone, as does every else I know to navigate and perform other functions. The sync voice command system is horrible. The reminder prompts are torturous. The menu systems suck. The speaker phone reception is poor. It's disgusting.

I hope Ford REALLY learns when it comes to the self-driving car phenomenon and buys the technology rather than trying to create it themselves. They aren't a computer company. Oh shit. Too late.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by bhcompy · 2016-10-12 12:37 · Score: 1

I own two. It's better than anything else I've used(Jeep, Dodge, Chevy, Kia, Toyota)
Re:I own one, it's horrible by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 14:03 · Score: 5, Informative

Probably breaking an NDA here, but here's what's happening: Ford's autonomous vehicle division (AVD) has signed a 10-year exclusive partnership with the division at Microsoft that's developing the MyDrive system. That means all Ford vehicles for at least the first two product generations, probably more, will be running embedded Windows and using Microsoft cloud services for real-time video processing and sensor fusion (GPS, accelerometer, gyros, wheelspin, etc.)
The codename for all of this is an ominous-sounding "PodBay." You've been warned. Cover the driver camera when you talk about it, this bitch can read lips.
In fact, cover both cameras. There's one in the steering-wheel hub and one in the rearview mirror.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by phantomfive · 2016-10-12 14:07 · Score: 1

The moment I saw that Microsoft bezel under the infotainment system, I knew it was trouble.
I literally decided against buying a Ford for this exact reason. At least, waiting until they got rid of it.

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"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Re:I own one, it's horrible by amiga3D · 2016-10-12 14:45 · Score: 1

I rented a Ford Exploder recently and it's system compared very unfavorably with the Chrysler 300 I rented the week before. So much so that when I next rent a car it wont be that one. The system in the Chrysler was a little strange to me to start with but after the first day it went very well. I had the Ford for a week and it never really worked worth a damn. I'm looking at buying a new car in the next few months and my last 3 cars were Mercury Grand Marquis. The current one is a 2001 and it's time for a new car. Ford did away with the Panther platform and I don't know what to buy now. There's really nothing I like in the Ford camp and while the Chrysler 300 drove and handled great and was very comfortable it had damn all for room. The trunk is like one tenth the size of my Marquis'. I literally haven't seen anything that suits me.
Re: I own one, it's horrible by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 14:56 · Score: 1

What hardware requirements? Shit should be fine with a $40 embedded computer....
You must have missed this part: "...the decision to build the interface in Flash."
Re:I own one, it's horrible by Luthair · 2016-10-12 15:16 · Score: 1

Wait..... streaming a video to the cloud and waiting for the response is considered "real time" now?
Re:I own one, it's horrible by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-12 16:16 · Score: 1

Crutchfield.com
Get something from Pioneer, or one of the other aftermarket makers... that is, if you can rip out the MyTouch without crippling non-entertainment related systems. We have an older Mercedes (2002) and they integrated the radio into the carputer so tightly that it really can't be replaced very easily.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by grep+-v+'.*'+* · 2016-10-12 16:53 · Score: 1

It's really pretty bad. ... Hopefully this lawsuit forces Ford to replace every single one of them with something more usable.
Like with a BMW? At least THEY run.

--
If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
Re:I own one, it's horrible by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 16:58 · Score: 4, Informative

It's a hybrid system. It doesn't send the video back. Lots of wack-ass ML code runs on the in-vehicle computer and talks to the mothership indirectly. It's sort of a realtime scheme with extensive dead-reckoning fallbacks, running under the same Windows instance that's playing your tunes.
If I say anything more I'll get a knock on the door at 5 AM, and believe me, I need the sleep.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by skaag · 2016-10-12 17:34 · Score: 1

It wasn't the main focus of the purchase, we bought it because of its size and other (non-infotainment) features that matched our requirements. If this was an Android or iOS based infotainment system, the car would be simply perfect 10/10 (for a gas engine anyway). That, and the amplifier/speakers are Sony, and they do sound great (when the system manages to connect to my phone and I can play Spotify...).

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All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain... time... to... die...
Re:I own one, it's horrible by Geeky · 2016-10-12 21:52 · Score: 1

I sometimes wonder whether these "green tax" measures (in the UK that tends to be higher tax on older, supposedly less efficient engines), take total environmental impact into account.
What about the manufacturing process? Surely replacing your car every couple of years is worse for the environment than keeping older cars running. The marginal gains in efficiency must be outweighed by the environmental cost of the manufacture.
So these green taxes are nothing to do with the environment, everything to do with boosting the car industry.

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Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by AntronArgaiv · 2016-10-13 00:31 · Score: 1

Probably breaking an NDA here, but here's what's happening: Ford's autonomous vehicle division (AVD) has signed a 10-year exclusive partnership with the division at Microsoft that's developing the MyDrive system. That means all Ford vehicles for at least the first two product generations, probably more, will be running embedded Windows and using Microsoft cloud services for real-time video processing and sensor fusion (GPS, accelerometer, gyros, wheelspin, etc.)
The codename for all of this is an ominous-sounding "PodBay." You've been warned. Cover the driver camera when you talk about it, this bitch can read lips.
In fact, cover both cameras. There's one in the steering-wheel hub and one in the rearview mirror.
Duct tape...is there anything it can't do?
(An autonomous Ford, powered by Microsoft? Hope the airbags work)
Re:I own one, it's horrible by AntronArgaiv · 2016-10-13 00:36 · Score: 1

Had good luck with Crutchfield. And Scoshe harness adapters.
Car manufacturer nav systems suck. Overpriced, and they don't do this everyday, so the engineering is usually not as good as Garmin, Magellan and the other guys who do this stuff for a living. And you can forget about updates. The dealers are just not equipped to handle them and the manufacturer has contracts that say everything has to go through the dealers. Hey, they're car companies, not software companies. Not surprising that they have no clue about how to maintain or distribute software.
Garmin. Small enough that I can throw it in my bag and stick it to the windshield of the rental car. Doesn't require cell service to work. And they're cheap. Garmin makes their money off selling you the updates. Nothing wrong with that, since I bought the lifetime updates for mine. The thing even worked in Canada.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-13 01:30 · Score: 1

Wait..... streaming a video to the cloud and waiting for the response is considered "real time" now?
I have experience with hybrid embedded/cloud applications. The world is not as simple as you think anymore. One way cloud offloading can work in an intermittently connected or real-time application is by using the cloud to train a classifier, and using the local device to perform the classification. I'm no expert in AI, but my understanding is that there are AI/Machine Learning techniques which rely on lots of data to train, but can create a rather small and lightweight classifier. So, the cloud, when connected can receiver more data, refine the classifier and send classifier updates back to the local processing device. The local processing device can just use the classifier in real-time. This is most likely an area of active research in both academia and industry.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by naughtynaughty · 2016-10-13 03:17 · Score: 1

If it works like most class action lawsuits Ford will settle, the class action attorneys will get $20M and every class member will get a coupon for $300 off their next new Ford purchase.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by operagost · 2016-10-13 04:19 · Score: 1

I doubt anything made now has a trunk like the old Panthers. I would have suggested a Taurus but you already eliminated all the Fords. Tesla model S? Otherwise, you're looking at a crossover.

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Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by steveg · 2016-10-13 05:02 · Score: 1

Mine is a 2013, and it's My Ford Touch. The app interface apparently only ever worked on the earlier Sync system -- it showed up on the menu of MFT, but it was apparently never implemented, probably for the reason you mention.
The MFT menu system seems fine to me, other than functions that kept getting removed with each new version, apparently in an effort to trim the system down enough to be stable on the limited hardware. It will change time zones if you drive over a time zone boundary, yet you can't select Daylight Savings Time. Etc.
You're right that the nav system is pretty bad. The display is actually nicely thought out, but it tends to get confused a lot, and the POI database is minuscule. The only vehicle-moving crashes of the system I've had were related to trying to use navigation at the same time as playing music. Too much for it to handle, leading to a five to ten minute freeze followed by a reboot. After a couple tries like that, I simply stick the phone into a holder and use Waze.
My speaker phone performance hasn't been a problem. I've only used the voice commands to make phone calls, and they work pretty well.
I don't use voice commands for music, since I just put it on random play and never mess with it. So with music and nav out of consideration, I don't know why I would ever actually use the voice prompts, even if they worked perfectly.
The music system would be great, if it actually worked reliably. When it's working, it's doing just what I want, with a pretty good interface.

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Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by Grishnakh · 2016-10-13 05:26 · Score: 1

The moment I saw that Microsoft bezel under the infotainment system, I knew it was trouble.
And yet, you bought the car anyway.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-13 16:07 · Score: 1

Absolutely, in the US they only thinly veiled the automaker bailout by passing a "trade in your clunker" incentive to buy new cars... they trumpeted gains in fuel efficiency, but didn't bother to insult us that it's not about bailing out troubled manufacturers.
Re:I own one, it's horrible by amiga3D · 2016-10-14 09:40 · Score: 1

Yeah, I would like to hold out a few years and pick up an electric vehicle once the range goes up and the price gets a little more reasonable for a decent one.

Re:"Ford" by Desler · 2016-10-12 12:16 · Score: 1

Yes, that was the whole joke from the show.

A perfect Pairing by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 12:20 · Score: 1

A software company that can't write software, writing software for a car company that can not make cars [of acceptable quality].

A match made in heaven.

Re:A perfect Pairing by amiga3D · 2016-10-12 14:53 · Score: 1

I don't know what Ford's doing now but the last 4 cars I owned were Ford products and all performed well with minimal problems. My 2001 Mercury Grand Marquis is still banging along at over 200K with no major problems except hard use has made it cosmetically unacceptable to my wife. Unfortunately they no longer make a full size car. No one does. I rented a Ford Exploder and that definitely is not an option. It rode shitty and handled shitty. My 77 GMC 4X4 pickup with off road tires had a better ride. The fancy entertainment center refused to sync with my phone or my wife's. I thought there was some trick to it but the rental people couldn't get it to work either. I'm thinking you have to have a microsoft phone.
Re:A perfect Pairing by drinkypoo · 2016-10-12 17:44 · Score: 1

Unfortunately they no longer make a full size car. No one does. I rented a Ford Exploder and that definitely is not an option. It rode shitty and handled shitty.
The exploder is not the one you want. You want the incursion. Or if you must have a car, Chrysler is still making the 300. It basically wishes it were a Mercedes from the 1990s, but it'll be slightly more reliable. Of course, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes all make long-wheelbase sedans (or short limousines) which are definitely full-sized, but they're also full-price.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:A perfect Pairing by amiga3D · 2016-10-12 22:28 · Score: 1

Yeah, I'd love a Mercedes unfortunately I don't make that kind of money.
Re:A perfect Pairing by steveg · 2016-10-14 07:32 · Score: 1

My Fusion Hybrid, aside from issues with My Ford Touch, is possibly the best car I've ever had.

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Ignorance killed the cat. Curiosity was framed.

Re:Wrong company for the job by Smerta · 2016-10-12 12:40 · Score: 5, Informative

It's even worse than Microsoft -- actually some hack 'n' sack firm called BSquare (was a publicly-traded company, I think they're swirling the drain) did the initial version of Sync Gen 2. Oh, but BSquare is a Microsoft "Gold Certified Partner", whatever the hell that means.

There was a story on Hacker News a couple years ago, an embedded systems engineer (inside Ford) was lamenting upper-management's choice of Windows CE and BSquare for the system.

Interesting that the 3rd generation of SYNC (out since 2016 I think) is based on QNX and appears to very well received. No Microsoft, no BSquare, no Windows CE. QNX is a real-time operating system. Windows CE purports to be, but a) all the middleware crap that comes in MS Auto is so buggy and full of priority inversions etc,, give me a break.

Someone (maybe the Hacker News article?) said something along the lines of "the decision to use WinCE in MyFord Touch was a handshake on a golf course, and Ford has felt the pain ever since."

Fords are great cars by voss · 2016-10-12 12:49 · Score: 1

As long as you dont have computers in them.

I love my Mercury Grand Marquis. The most digital thing in the car is the stereo.

Re:Fords are great cars by Proudrooster · 2016-10-12 14:06 · Score: 1

Unless you want something crash worthy. Who needs crumple zones, airbags, antilock brakes, or safety glass.
Check this out: 2009 Chevy Malibu vs 1959 Bel Air Crash Test | Consumer Reports
So yeah, I am all for the classic cars, just don't ever get in a high speed accident and expect to walk away without serious damage to your entire body.
Re:Fords are great cars by amiga3D · 2016-10-12 14:56 · Score: 1

People keep saying this crap and yet I've owned 3 with little problems here and there but basically they're hard to actually break. Now the other Ford stuff like the Taurus with the fucked up Transmission that just suddenly wont do anything out of the blue is another matter. Ford made great full size stuff but the little cars all seem to break routinely. We wont mention the Pinto.
Re:Fords are great cars by talexb · 2016-10-13 01:21 · Score: 1

Oh .. Ford Taurus transmissions!
You've reminded me of the hilarious fleet of Ford Taurus wagons that my employer had when I was there years ago (mid-90's). Out of ten vehicles, I believe eight had to go in for transmission replacement. They were leased vehicles, so the company didn't care, but it sure was inconvenient.
Re:Fords are great cars by operagost · 2016-10-13 04:21 · Score: 1

This may surprise you, but a 1990s/2000s Grand Marquis/Town Car/Crown Vic is nothing like a 1959 Bel Air.

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Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.

Re:Wrong company for the job by Gr8Apes · 2016-10-12 12:57 · Score: 1

BSquare is a Microsoft "Gold Certified Partner", whatever the hell that means.

It means they paid enough cash to line Microsoft's pockets with gold....

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.

Re:"Ford" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-10-12 13:07 · Score: 1

Always liked the backwards one -- "Driver Returns On Foot"

Windows CE - hmmmm by speedlaw · 2016-10-12 13:13 · Score: 1

I have a Caddy with the Windows CE computer. It works decently, except that it isn't really integrated into the car electronics. It turns on and off separately, and none of the data can transfer to the dashboard gage cluster or the dot matrix readout in the center. I get a distinct impression that the GM engineers and the Windows folks had clearly drawn lines-there is a computer in the dash but it isn't really integrated into the GM electrics... On the other hand the touch screen works well and the system is stable. I'm grateful, it could have CUE...which is a botch....so in this case, MS actually did better.

Re:Windows CE - hmmmm by Cassini2 · 2016-10-12 14:48 · Score: 1

GM did you a favor. I have a Kia with the Microsoft system. An Apple iPhone can crash the system so hard that it needs a full reboot. You have to stop the car, turn the engine-off and restart to get the phone interface working again. The system doesn't work with Android properly either. I assume Microsoft's system must work well with a Zune or a Lumia phone, however I have never seen one to try it out. :-)
Keep the engine stuff separate than the entertainment stuff. If you let Microsoft near your car controls, then it will be like the old Bill Gates compares Windows to a GM car joke.

Re:a car by NatasRevol · 2016-10-12 13:18 · Score: 1

Yes, every person in the car MUST stare out the front window at all times and never do anything but help the driver.

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There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure

Ford "Stynk" is more like it by WhatHump · 2016-10-12 13:25 · Score: 2

I tried connecting my 32GB Apple iPod to it in my 2012 Ford Fusion. It attempted to index every song and crashed in the process, and became stuck on disc 2 of Pink Floyd's The Wall. It would not play anything else until I did a hard reset of the system. The only way I connect to it now is through the Aux jack in the centre console.

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"Could be worse...could be raining." Igor

Re:Ford "Stynk" is more like it by ConceptJunkie · 2016-10-12 14:20 · Score: 1

I have the same car and the same system. The Aux jack is the only thing I use.

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You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Re:Ford "Stynk" is more like it by JoeMerchant · 2016-10-12 16:17 · Score: 1

Waiting for the worms, forever.
Re:Ford "Stynk" is more like it by Fire_Wraith · 2016-10-13 02:43 · Score: 1

It's just another bricked by The Wall?
Re:Ford "Stynk" is more like it by naughtynaughty · 2016-10-13 03:21 · Score: 1

You lack courage
Re:Ford "Stynk" is more like it by necronom426 · 2016-10-13 04:49 · Score: 1

I have a 2013 Fiesta, and the only part of the car that doesn't work is Sync. Almost every time I start the car, my USB has to re-index, then I spend a minute getting back to where I was (as it's lost the song you were up to) trying not to crash in the process. It did it twice yesterday.

Re:"Ford" by JustOK · 2016-10-12 13:57 · Score: 1

Fix Or Repair Daily

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rewriting history since 2109

This is typical for Ford by LVSlushdat · 2016-10-12 14:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

This seems to be the norm for Ford.. Wife and I have a 2012 Escape, which has a "Sync by Microsoft" entertainment system (SirusXM/am-fm/Cd/Bluetooth Handsfree).. We've had the car since 2012, and right after we bought it, the sat radio would get "no signal" dropouts at almost every street intersection, no matter what sat channel you were on.. Once you cleared the intersection, signal would return, only to go out again at the next light.. Went back to the dealer and bugged them about it, they said "We'll take a look if you can leave the car for at least a week"... ???? WTF?? That AINT happening... Anyway we've just lived with it.. And not to mention the total of FIVE different Android smartphones we've tried to pair with the hands-free system.. None of which will pair.. I guess I should have realized when we were shopping for an SUV that ANYthing with parts with Microsoft's name on them would be a piece of shit...

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THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)

Re:This is typical for Ford by adolf · 2016-10-12 16:04 · Score: 2

If these features are important to you, then why didn't you test this stuff out before you bought the thing?

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Kid-proof tablet..

Why Ford? by XB-70 · 2016-10-12 14:34 · Score: 1

Imagine a world where Microsoft was held to the same standard as an automobile manufacturer.

A world where a crash could end a life. Well, for decades, Windows has been crashing. Apart from a few exceptional cases, it hasn't taken a life directly but, it has taken PARTS of lives: Minutes and hours.

Add all the reboots you have ever done in your lifetime and I'll bet a week of your life has been stolen. STOLEN

Yet, it's FORD that ends up in a lawsuit.

Go figure.

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*** Don't be dull.***

Re:Can't a car just drive anymore? by LVSlushdat · 2016-10-12 14:40 · Score: 1

The super-annoying part about these integrated navigation/entertainment systems, is that if they're crap (like the "sync by microsoft" crap we have in our 2012 Ford Escape) you're stuck with it.. Can't yank the crap out and go to a store and buy an aftermarket system like you could in the past...

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THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)

Dear autos: please give up by MrLogic17 · 2016-10-12 14:44 · Score: 3, Insightful

Auto makers just don't understand tech, and the product cycle of phones is way, way faster than cars. I own a car typically 10-15 years. I own a phone maybe 4, if it doesn't get a fatal screen break.

I want my car to have an audio input, and a USB charge port. That's it - let me handle the GPS, audio, whatever with my own phone & my own apps.

If autos want to really get fancy, mirror my phone on a bigger touch screen - but stay out of the way.

Re:Dear autos: please give up by drinkypoo · 2016-10-12 17:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

If autos want to really get fancy, mirror my phone on a bigger touch screen - but stay out of the way.
Actually, this is the norm. Almost everyone but Ford is implementing Apple Carplay, Android Auto, or both — technologies which do basically what you are describing, although your launcher is likely to go into an automotive mode as I understand it.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Dear autos: please give up by c · 2016-10-12 23:41 · Score: 1

I want my car to have an audio input, and a USB charge port. That's it
Built-in ODB-II bluetooth and USB connection. There's no longer an acceptable excuse for not including those features.

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Log in or piss off.
Re:Dear autos: please give up by houghi · 2016-10-13 00:40 · Score: 1

I hate that car makers do not realize that people have phones. I have places for my coins (that I have in my walles, so I don't use it), places for my glasses (that I do not have) and places for my coffee that I do not drink. Some have places to put your parking ticket on the window.
Some of these will be used by some of the people, yet there is one thing that everybody that has a drivers licence has and that is a phone.
But a place to put it in any convinient way? Nope!
Even if you have an audio in, there is no way to place the phone, so I have to buy something that I put on the window, because the rest isn't flat.
When I rent cars, most of the times I just put the suction cup on the double DIN radio screen.

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Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Re:Dear autos: please give up by sethaw · 2016-10-13 05:20 · Score: 2

Ford added Carplay and Android Auto as at least an option to pretty much all of its 2017 models. That's better than most manufacturers at this point.

See the current lists yourself:
https://www.android.com/auto/
http://www.apple.com/ios/carpl...

Re:Last time I rented a Ford I thought it was me by amiga3D · 2016-10-12 14:46 · Score: 1

It wasn't you. I rented one for a week and it never worked. Maybe you need a Microsoft Phone.

"Ford's Buggy Infotainment System...." by mark-t · 2016-10-12 14:55 · Score: 1

I saw what you did there. :)

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File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'

QNX by hduff · 2016-10-12 15:03 · Score: 1, Interesting

They should have gone with QNX.
http://www.qnx.com/content/qnx...

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"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert

Re:QNX by Tarmas · 2016-10-12 16:01 · Score: 1

They already have:
http://autoweek.com/article/ca...

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Signature has left the building.
Re:QNX by Parker+Lewis · 2016-10-12 23:39 · Score: 1

But the new version IS using QNX.

Re:There all shit. Every year since the begging... by Luthair · 2016-10-12 15:17 · Score: 1

Android Auto / CarPlay maybe?

I was looking at an RPi based system a while ago but ironically it costs too much for the kits.

Oh you just wait by RightwingNutjob · 2016-10-12 15:31 · Score: 2, Funny

until they start putting systemd into an 'open source' infotainment system and you'll have to clack out garbage like 'enginectl --start --really --noforrealthistime --cylinders 0,1,2,3,4,5' on the touch screen.

Re:Wrong company for the job by mikeiver1 · 2016-10-12 15:57 · Score: 1

Really, is an RTOS really required for music and navigation? I don't think so... We have a Subaru WRX STI with the fancy system. It seems to work OK. The nav is a bit wonky but overall it works well enough. The sound is fair too, bit heavy on the bass but considering the general target audience I suspect that to be on purpose. The Bluetooth has mine and my GF phones linked but it grabs her iPhone before my Samsung if we both have BT turned on. If I had bought on of the gen 2 systems I would be looking to get on the lawsuit bandwagon with the other victims of Ford and MS. If my car were fairly new I would simply make them give me the stock head and refund my money. Then go buy a double din head from the likes of say Alpine or Pioneer or what ever gets good reviews for function.

Oh, good... by Ayars · 2016-10-12 16:13 · Score: 1

... It's not just my Toyota's IVI that sucks. 2014 Corolla S: voice recognition is slightly less useful than my belly button. iPod controls are so bad that it's easier to unplug the iPod, pick a song, press play, then plug it in. It has the ability to play mp3's off a flash drive, but if the flash drive is larger than 512Mb it takes 30-60 minutes to index it before it'll allow you to play anything, and that 30-60 minutes starts over if you switch music sources or re-start the car.

I'm open to hacking it, if anyone has suggestions on where to start.

Re:Wrong company for the job by adolf · 2016-10-12 16:25 · Score: 1

How do you know that your WRX isn't running QNX?

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Kid-proof tablet..

Re:a car by PCPackrat · 2016-10-12 16:32 · Score: 1

Wyld Stallions!

Mine works great by PCPackrat · 2016-10-12 16:36 · Score: 1

I have a 2013 Explorer and the MyFord Sync works great. It's connected to my phone as soon as I'm ready to leave. When I remote start it, it links by the time I get into the car. I remember reading about all the problems but mine has been fine. I find it strange that some are problematic and some aren't.

Re:Mine works great by cjjjer · 2016-10-13 02:16 · Score: 1

2013 Escape here and the the only issue I had with mine was out of the blue it often failed to sync with my iPhone 4s, I updated to the latest version (3.8) which was released specifically to fix syncing issues with iOS 9 and it has worked flawless ever since.
On a side note I took the update files and extracted all of the files from the *.cab files and noticed that the UI seems to be pretty much all Flash based which probably accounts for the some of the instability.

rented a ford with that in it. by WindBourne · 2016-10-12 16:46 · Score: 1

Total Shit. It was HORRIBLE.
Hopefully, Ford is forced to pay for the crap that they are turning out.

At the same time, all of these companies need to look at Tesla to see how it is done correctly.

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I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.

Re:Wrong company for the job by drinkypoo · 2016-10-12 17:39 · Score: 1

We have a Subaru WRX STI with the fancy system. It seems to work OK. The nav is a bit wonky but overall it works well enough.

Is this the one that takes like three seconds to zoom in?

If my car were fairly new I would simply make them give me the stock head and refund my money. Then go buy a double din head from the likes of say Alpine or Pioneer or what ever gets good reviews for function.

Most cars today no longer have a standard ISO DIN slot for the stereo, or if they do, they have an oversized faceplate that you'll have to fill with something.

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"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Mythbusters by bigtreeman · 2016-10-12 18:30 · Score: 1

Mythbusters did a polished turd
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

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Go well

MyFord Touch based on Microsoft technologies by pokemon219 · 2016-10-12 18:45 · Score: 1

"MyFord Touch (branded as MyLincoln Touch on Ford's Lincoln brand products is an in-car communications and entertainment system developed by the Ford Motor Company, based on Microsoft technologies". ref

Consumer Reports by StuffMaster · 2016-10-12 19:13 · Score: 1

Consumer Reports has long docked Ford for the computer system.

I know I'll miss my hardware radio and climate control buttons when I next buy a car.

fellow F150 Lariat Owner Here... by SethJohnson · 2016-10-12 20:27 · Score: 1

I'm enjoying a used 2007 F150 Lariat I bought a few months ago. I intentionally shopped trucks without a touchscreen because I didn't want to haggle with a seller asking higher prices because of 'premium audio.'

I installed an Alpine ILX-007 bought off eBay for $480 along with a Camera Source backup camera purchased directly from the manufacturer for $268.

The Alpine is a CarPlay head unit that works great. It's a wired connection - NO BLUETOOTH. You can still do hands-free phonecalls. I have had several problems with bluetooth unexpectedly stealing my phone calls when my wife shows up with one of our cars in the driveway. So far, I am very happy with the Alpine CarPlay experience in the F150.

We also own a 2013 Ford Flex w/ the myTouch and I have literally punched that screen a few times. Consumer Reports initially gave the 2013 Flex a very enthusiastic review, then later retracted it due to the flawed myTouch system. I hope Ford gets a kick in the nuts over this garbage head unit.

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$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!

Does Ford Make Buggies? by cardpuncher · 2016-10-12 20:32 · Score: 2

Time to blow the dust off my whip-manufacturing line.

This also seems to affect older models... by hoover · 2016-10-12 21:59 · Score: 1

We own a ca. 2008 Ford Focus hatchback and I've managed to crash the (Sony-based?) music system in it so hard simply by trying to play stuff off of a USB stick that the entire thing (just the radio / cd player, thank $DEITY, not the car itself) refused to turn on for a couple of days.

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Ever wondered whats wrong with the world? http://www.ishmael.org/

Replaced with a Tablet by EmagGeek · 2016-10-12 23:27 · Score: 1

I drive an XC90 and ripped out all of Volvo's stock audio and NAV crap and replaced it with a semi-permanently mounted android tablet on my cell plan.

Spotify for music and Google Maps for directions. Done, and done, and it's all so much better than the stock junk.

Blast from past! by Parker+Lewis · 2016-10-12 23:40 · Score: 1

Just to remind us that MS said they'll kill QNX in two years! Oh, the irony of the time... https://tech.slashdot.org/stor...

Re:Wrong company for the job by AmiMoJo · 2016-10-12 23:56 · Score: 1

Microsoft suckers you in to using Windows CE with promises that it can't keep. For example, you will be able to write all your software in nice and easy .NET and Silverlight they say, without telling you that it will "run" like crap and be basically unusable, and that half of the really useful language features aren't supported anyway.

We used it on a product and found that Portuguese language support didn't work. We supplied our own strings etc, it's just that when you select Portuguese the .NET code uses English instead. Apparently this bug affects a few random languages and Microsoft don't think it's worth fixing, so we just put the Portuguese strings in some Latin American language that we don't support and lived with it.

My signature came about because Silverlight is a broken mess (and no longer supported by MS) so we eventually found an alternative open source framework that needed beating into shape but at least kinda did what we needed.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC

Re:"Ford" by AntronArgaiv · 2016-10-13 00:29 · Score: 1

Fix Or Repair Daily

Fast Overhaul, Rapid Depreciation

and, of course...

Found On Roadside, Dead.

Satellite Radio by JBMcB · 2016-10-13 00:40 · Score: 1

Check the forums to see if anyone else is having this problem. If not, it's probably an issue with your antenna. Sync has nothing to do with the radio firmware, which is pretty much the same for every satellite radio. They all source the same chipset and firmware from the same company. I'm guessing the cable to your antenna is defective or the connection is bad.

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My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.

Obviously never saw Tesla 8.0 media player UI by dbitter1 · 2016-10-13 01:23 · Score: 1

Absolutely worst thing ever. I'd take a 8 track player over it. Hopefully their developers die a slow and painful death.

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For us carnivores, "Sucking the marrow out of life" isn't a transcendentalist philosophy but a practical instruction.

Re:"Ford" by 6Yankee · 2016-10-13 01:38 · Score: 1

Ferrous Oxide Research Department

For me, never worked by Catbeller · 2016-10-13 01:41 · Score: 1

I've tried pairing my phone to Ford cars, and it never works. It pairs, but then: zilch. It thinks it's a music player of some sort. Phone doesn't function through the car. I always carry - YES - a 3.5 audio cable and connect the phone through the headphone jack to hear music. Even THAT fails and I have to reboot the system to make it work. This among many other common failures of simple gadgets make me laugh to see self-driving cars - we are no where near ready for that level of complexity. In the real world, these toys crash constantly.

Re:For me, never worked by Grishnakh · 2016-10-13 05:52 · Score: 1

I've tried pairing my phone to Ford cars, and it never works. It pairs, but then: zilch. ... Phone doesn't function through the car. I always carry - YES - a 3.5 audio cable and connect the phone through the headphone jack to hear music.
Not any more you don't, if you have an iPhone, since the new iPhone doesn't have a headphone jack. You need to use Bluetooth audio with the new iPhone. Except that doesn't work with your Ford! Oh well! Well, you can just get a Lightning-to-3.5 adapter cable... oh wait, now your phone will die since you can't charge and use the adapter at the same time!
As long as people keep buying Fords and Apples and MS software and other products this broken, we can expect more woes like this.

Re:Disc 2 of The Wall by HBI · 2016-10-13 02:00 · Score: 1

True, you do get "Comfortably Numb" in the mix.

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HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.

performing scheduled system maintenance by Bender+Unit+22 · 2016-10-13 03:04 · Score: 1

I have rented a Ford a few times and a more than once, I saw the "performing scheduled system maintenance" start all of the sudden and then it stayed on that screen until I reached my destination, parked the car and turned of the ignition. When I came back to the car, it worked again. I don't know which version it was( it was in the latest Mustang GT), but it seemed to me like it was more like a way to hide the fact that it crashed than it was "performing scheduled system maintenance". It sure was one hell of a time to perform maintenance while I was depending on the audio for navigation.

Other than that, I found the system to be mostly useless. Also the fact that you can't do certain things while the car is in motion is fucking stupid. My passenger could not pair the bluetooth on the iPod until I parked the car. If you have to be so fucking clever about it at least let people use the fucking thing where there's someone in the passenger seat.

Re:Wrong company for the job by habig · 2016-10-13 03:25 · Score: 1

Interesting that the 3rd generation of SYNC (out since 2016 I think) is based on QNX and appears to very well received.

I have a 2016 Fusion, and its SYNC is indeed adequate. It's responsive, well laid-out, and the bluetooth pairing does what you want it to with no problems. Voice recognition even works. Wish it had Android Auto (apparently the 2017 models do), as exporting processing of navigation and stuff to your phone seems the right way to go.

On the other hand, my 2013 Subaru's system is complete trash. Getting in the car and trying to select my phone to pair to (after my wife has driven it) is eleven-levels deep into a voice menu that has a hard time understanding you. At least it remembers the pairing on restart, but they weren't thinking about two different drivers at all when "designing" this steaming pile of code.

Re:bet the "marketing requirements" were the origi by Smerta · 2016-10-13 04:25 · Score: 1

My understanding is that if this goes to trial, which in the U.S. is public and open, all the documents presented (except possibly source code?) will be available to the public.

Sounds like Ford is in very, very bad position on this one. Usually attorneys save the most damning material for trial. Maybe we'll see.

Re:I worked on Sync 2 by Smerta · 2016-10-13 04:34 · Score: 1

Wish I had mod points to mod you up. Also there was the guy on Hacker News (emcrazyone) who I think was a systems engineer at Ford, he (or she?) explained the BSquare shitshow.

I feel for you guys... having these asinine decisions rammed down your throats, and being told to "make it work". Sounds like you guys never had a fighting chance...

Polished turds by Alioth · 2016-10-13 04:54 · Score: 1

I don't think I've ever come across a modern in-car GPS/entertainment system that is *not* a polished turd. The GPS navigation software is always terrible - slow, counterintuitive and annoying to use with an unresponsive UI meaning you're not sure if it actually accepted the touch screen input, difficult and costly to have updated, and if it allows over the air updates requires a contract (more cost). The system will also be hilariously dated before the car is even a third of a way through its expected lifetime. Often they are hilariously dated the day the car rolls off the production line.

I'd rather a car came with an entertainment system that had just one thing: a decent Bluetooth audio system and nothing else. That way the updates are on whatever device I use.

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Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows

Re:Polished turds by rthille · 2016-10-13 08:47 · Score: 1

The one in the Prius my ex-wife had was pretty good.

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Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/

What on earth would they expect? by PontifexMaximus · 2016-10-13 04:56 · Score: 1

I mean, Microsoft has released nothing but utter shit in the last decade (Windows 7 notwithstanding). But, just like Ford to keep beating that dead horse all the while touting SYNC as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Personally, I won't buy anything but Subarus now anyway.

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Pax Vobiscum

Re:bet the "marketing requirements" were the origi by kurkosdr · 2016-10-13 08:05 · Score: 1

First time that a case involving marketing promises not matching with actual software product because of crippling bugs. Glad to see how this plays out. So far software vendors (boxed or embedded) got away with this because the cost of litigation vs cost of software was prohibitive, so they ignored customer complaints.

Re:a car by omfglearntoplay · 2016-10-13 08:16 · Score: 1

In Japan, you can totally watch a movie up front on their car infotainment systems.

At least... by rthille · 2016-10-13 08:48 · Score: 1

At least the turd was polished before being sold!

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Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/

What is the value of an Infotainment System? by userw014 · 2016-10-13 09:01 · Score: 1

Yes, my question sounds elitist and perhaps naive. But I've been driving a vehicle with My Ford Touch for three years. It's only when you think that there is no value to an Infotainment system over a simple AM/FM radio with an aux-input will you be at ease with My Ford Touch.

I don't use My Ford Touch extensively. If anything, I use it very lightly - and it still fails to satisfy purpose. I don't sync my phone contacts with the car - my contacts are precious to me, and they don't belong on a vehicle that gets a few recall service visits a year. The car came with SiriusXM and a 1 year subscription, which I tried twice and was deeply unimpressed by. Most of my driving is local, so the built-in GPS system is useless, and GPS systems in a smart-phone will always be more advanced and useful than whatever gets baked into the frozen technology of an automobile. (And the GPS system refused to recognize a valid postal address in my area.) The GPS system isn't worth $149/year for something that comes free with a smart phone.

Even the AM/FM radio part is seriously flawed. It refuses to restart the FM radio when the car powers up if the FM station is HD.

Being able to play from a USB stick is nice - except that when the car restarts, the Infotainment system looses track of where it is, and when it reaches the end of an album, it will resume playing from the "first" album - where non-alphabetic characters in the album name sort before alphabetic characters. I'm VERY tired of listening to "Cats".

The heat/AC, backup camera, and various plugin-hybrid controls are also integrated with the Infotainment system. Fortunately, they don't seem to be impacted much by the flaws - although they do have flaws of their own.

My Ford Touch is fine as a proof-of-concept done by high school kids. It should have never been released to the public.

Re:Wrong company for the job by mikeiver1 · 2016-10-23 12:42 · Score: 1

So good to see that they let the retards in school play on the computers when no one is looking.

Slashdot Mirror

Ford's Buggy Infotainment System Referred To By Engineers As 'Polished Turd' and 'Unsaleable' (computerworld.com)

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