Slashdot Mirror


Anti-Defamation League and Pepe the Frog's Creator Are Teaming Up To Save Pepe From Hate-Symbol Status (businessinsider.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Business Insider: Matt Furie, the creator of the widely known "Pepe the Frog" meme, is joining forces with the Anti-Defamation League to reclaim the symbol from the alt-right and make it a "force for good," according to a press release. Furie and the ADL plan to start a social-media campaign by creating "a series of positive Pepe memes and messages" and promoting them with the hashtag #SavePepe, according to the release. The ADL declared "Pepe the Frog" to be a hate symbol in late September. "It's completely insane that Pepe has been labeled a symbol of hate, and that racists and anti-Semites are using a once peaceful frog-dude from my comic book as an icon of hate," Furie said in a column for Time magazine. While fiercely condemning the "racist and fringe groups" that use Pepe to propagate divisive views, Furie said Pepe was meant to "celebrate peace, togetherness, and fun." The meme, which originated from a 2005 cartoon, has been hijacked by the alt-right movement in the past several months. Members of the movement have used the meme to convey often racist and anti-Semitic messages. The messages prompted the ADL to add Pepe to its "Hate on Display" database, which documents anti-Semitic hate symbols. According to the ADL's press release on the #SavePepe campaign, Furie will speak at its "Never Is Now" summit against anti-Semitism on November 17 in New York City. The panel will focus specifically on online hate campaigns. Furie published a new Pepe cartoon on Monday detailing his "alt-right election nightmare," which depicts a sad Pepe morphing into a frog that resembles Donald Trump and then a monster. Pepe appears trapped in the mouth of the monster. The next panel depicts a nuclear explosion. Pepe then awakes and hides under his mattress.

380 comments

  1. The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everyone who sees that comic is just going to laugh harder than they were before.

    It's fucking hilarious seeing these losers take a stupid meme so seriously.

    1. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      And even more hilarious to see them try and turn all opposition to the fiscally disastrous Left into Nazi's.

      In the new landscape, anyone who disagrees with the disastrously unsustainable policies of the Democrats -- who have presided over soaring wealth inequality and further concessions to the banking system -- is a white supremacist of some kind.

      Nice propaganda fail.

      People are done with the party that publicly focuses on social equality (but somewhat amazingly, not populism) while privately focusing on fleecing the nation and siding with corporations.

    2. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Everyone who sees that comic is just going to laugh harder than they were before."

      Pepe The Frog was a wrong meme to appropriate; he just doesn't have the legs. (Mmm.. delicious with garlic butter...)
      If they wanted someone French, with vague Nazi-Vichy tendencies, who takes unwanted liberties with the Ladies, especially the Pussies, they should have gone with Pepe le Pew.
      Yeah this stinks, but it would be much lulz to see the Alt-Right go up against Warner Brothers.

    3. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      What the actual fuck does the misuse of the Pepe the frog meme by the alt-right as a symbol of racism have to do with the fact that there are people who oppose the Democrats from the left? How rubbish at logic can you be?

    4. Re:The Comic by Maritz · · Score: 0

      They made complete fools of themselves by putting a joke on their joke register. It was the perfect demonstration of how insane the left has become.

      Now they are desperate to back peddle.

      They said that it was only a hate symbol when accompanied by the usual anti-semetic stuff like swaztikas. Of course, you don't acknowledge that because your need to be apalled at the insanity of "the left" is independent of truth and reality.

      Oh and it's "pedal", not "peddle".

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    5. Re: The Comic by sg_oneill · · Score: 0

      Who said the ADL is of "the left"? or are we in "Jews = communism" wingnut territory here?

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    6. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's fucking hilarious seeing these losers take a stupid meme so seriously.

      Memes are Super Cereal you guys!

    7. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, they labelled the whole thing a hate symbol and THEN tried to restrict to it ones with nazi symbols on it. Of course, you don't acknowledge that because you're completely out of touch with reality or history.

      And then you start nitpicking typos to leave no-one in any doubt that you are a batshit obsessive Leftie.

    8. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to know why they're being so Pepe-phobic.

    9. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Republican-level rubbish.

    10. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's the point. It wasn't a "symbol of racism" by the "alt-right" until the left and controlled media deemed it so.

      Before then, it was just an Internet meme. The exact second someone who didn't agree with the leftists used the meme, that's the exact second it became "racist hate speech". Starting to catch on yet to how all this works, yet?

    11. Re: The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love to hear a plausible (not even compelling, but merely *plausible*) argument for the ADL being anything but left-of-center.

    12. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They said that it was only a hate symbol when accompanied by the usual anti-semetic stuff like swaztikas.

      You mean just like anything else? Any meme or image can become a hate symbol if you add swastikas.

      Oh, and it's "swastikas", not "swaztikas", and "anti-Semitic", not "anti-semetic".

    13. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice propaganda fail.

      Out of the 27 words in my post, none of them were about Democrats, Republicans, or even politics in general.

      The only one failing here is you.

    14. Re:The Comic by D00MSlayer · · Score: 1

      I think it was when they were putting Pepe in Nazi regalia, or when they made racist remarks while he was made to look black was the time when it was coined a racist symbol.

    15. Re:The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That Pepe the frog thing, WAY past the point of salvaging. It's already a 4chan thing, 4chan and Reddit are the homes of bullies, right-wing or not.

      The trolls love attention and this is just giving it to them.

    16. Re: The Comic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Putting hateful symbols on a meme does not make the meme a hate symbol. It just makes it a meme with hateful symbols on it.

      If you disagree, then watch me as I make the peace symbol into a nazi hate symbol.

  2. PRAY FOR PEPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PRAY FOR PEPE

    1. Re:PRAY FOR PEPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #NotAllPepes

    2. Re: PRAY FOR PEPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #DicksOutForPepe

    3. Re: PRAY FOR PEPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #FuckingShitterTrashTags

    4. Re: PRAY FOR PEPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #PeanutButterJellyTime

    5. Re:PRAY FOR PEPE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      #PepeOfPeace

    6. Re: PRAY FOR PEPE by malditaenvidia · · Score: 1

      #dumbfrogposters

    7. Re: PRAY FOR PEPE by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 1

      #BuyPepe

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
  3. What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If speech doesn't offend anyone, nobody will try to ban it. The only type of speech in need of protection is that which someone considers offensive and wants to ban. I consider hate speech a good thing because it's indicative of a free society. One of the first things to go in a society that isn't free is hate speech, a fact that has been documented throughout history. Regimes that aren't free tend to restrict speech, and we need to promote free thought and free speech. In a free society, you should speak against hate speech rather than attempt to ban it.

    1. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In a truly free society, people could just murder, assault, rape, and steal with no consequences, except for vigilante justice. That's why we make these crimes illegal. It's a trade off of some freedom for some safety, and that's the right thing to do.

      Hate speech itself may not kill people, but it has harmful effects on society. It creates groups of people that are scared to speak up, scared to do things, and in some cases, people do kill or commit crimes based on it. Hate speech must be controlled as part of a harmonious society. I understand that people have the right to speak their minds, but people also have the right to be free to do what they want in life, and being intimidated by hateful speech infringes on that.

    2. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. A truly free society does not exist for any society where the number of members is greater than 1. When we say "free society", we mean "a society which maximizes personal liberty". The situation you describe (lack of social order) does not maximize personal liberty because the removal of state enforcement yields more personal responsibility than a situation in which a well-functioning state operates with the goal of maintaining the greatest possible personal freedom.

    3. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The use of Federal hate crime legislation was the only way the stranglehold of White Supremacist Jim Crow laws were finally loosed in the former slave states, a hundred years after the Thirteenth Amendment was supposed to have guaranteed freedom for African Americans. You may dislike them, and in some ways I might even agree that they have been a blunt instrument, but the fact remains that if Congress had not passed the Civil Rights acts, and the Executive had not been willing to use them to target the purveyors of systemic inequity in the South, it's almost certain that it would have been decades longer before something approaching equal rights would have been achieved.

      And no one is getting arrested for this appropriation of a damned frog symbol, but the creator and others are trying to "de-meme" it. Isn't that what a free society does? Where a group believes there is some injustice, it puts for the argument, perhaps even vigorously, that the injustice needs to be righted? It almost seems to me that some peoples' ideal free society is where certain people can literally say anything they want, and no one is ever allowed to call what they say into question. Again and again, what I see from the Trump camp and the Alt-right isn't the notion of freedom of speech, but rather freedom from consequences. Whether it's Milos concocting fake tweets to go after a black actress because he didn't like the movie she was in, or guys running around spouting thinly veiled (or sometimes not even veiled) racism, and the expectation always is "If you try to shame me, you're a fascist!"

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It almost seems to me that some peoples' ideal free society is where certain people can literally say anything they want, and no one is ever allowed to call what they say into question. Again and again, what I see from the Trump camp and the Alt-right isn't the notion of freedom of speech, but rather freedom from consequences.

      In another article on Slashdot, we have people boycotting a Silicon Valley business associated with a CEO who has dared to donate to Trump. And we have a GOP office being firebombed just the other day. But hey, it's all good because those are evil Republicans, right?

      Don't you dare pin this all on the right. I've seen more than plenty from the left as well. Fascist assholes who simply want to silence their opposition are all over the spectrum, sadly.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    5. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Everything is wrong with hate symbols, and that's kind of the point. The very notions of freedom and tolerance presuppose the existence of things that are detestable.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    6. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by poity · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The loss of life, bodily integrity, and personal possession are reasons why your listed crimes are harmful. Their causes are the immediate physical actions that precipitate their loss. In contrast, speech precipitates no loss and no harm, and you only deem it "harmful" because they merely have the potential, down the line, to motivate or to lower the mental obstacles for actions that deprive life, bodily integrity, or personal possession. Your view of "harm" is suddenly made so expansive that it would force us to conclude that, for example, socialist slogans and ideas are forms of hate speech in the sense that they have the potential -- proven through historical precedent -- to motivate actions that deprive life, bodily integrity, and personal possession.

      Ultimately, your argument would like us to take extra steps up the chain of causality to ban things that aren't directly related to harm. How far up the chain of causality can we really go, or should we go? 2 or 3 steps seem just as arbitrary a demarcation as 20 or 40 steps. If a butterfly flaps its wings and down the line someone is killed, must we then ban the butterfly from flapping its wings?

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    7. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >It amuses.

      But I really, really hate you. How can you possibly be amused with all of the malevolence I've directly conveyed to you with my words, you utter ponce.

    8. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Pseudonym · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In another article on Slashdot, we have people boycotting a Silicon Valley business associated with a CEO who has dared to donate to Trump.

      That's freedom of association and it's at least as fundamental a right as free speech. If that's how they choose to stand up for what they believe in, that's their business. You and I, in turn, may use this information to decide whom we want to associate with. I don't see the problem.

      And we have a GOP office being firebombed just the other day.

      That's a crime. That is a problem. I hope whoever did it is caught and does hard time.

      Don't you dare pin this all on the right.

      More to the point, don't pretend that "the right" or "the left" is a heterogeneous mass. In both cases, we're talking about a loose association of different individuals and groups with different agendas, some of whom are extremists.

      To paraphrase a friend of mine:

      It's okay to be a conservative; some values are worth preserving and defending. It's okay to be a progressive; the times they are a-changing. It's okay to be a radical; sometimes the joint needs to be shaken up. It's okay to be all three, perhaps on different issues. But it's never okay to be a fundamentalist.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    9. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Civil Rights Act isn't "hate crime legislation"

    10. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "If that's how they choose to stand up for what they believe in, that's their business. You and I, in turn, may use this information to decide whom we want to associate with. I don't see the problem."

      Except your group goes out and make it a point to get others to ostracize the group whose beliefs and opinions differ from yours using the threat of wielding social and economic punishment against them if they don't align with your politics. Fundamentally anti-democratic.

    11. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by shilly · · Score: 1

      Thank god for Slashdotters with brains. I remember when the mark of a nerd was they read decent hard SF books by people like Robert Heinlein. They started with the juvies and learned about the importance of freedom of speech, and of association, and the difference between what people choose to do and what governments do. They learned nuance and thought about governance as well as learning science. I miss all that.

    12. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Kjella · · Score: 2

      In contrast, speech precipitates no loss and no harm

      If you're in front of a firing squad, I'm pretty sure the man giving the orders is part of it. Libel, slander, threats, many forms of speech are illegal. You can easily join a criminal conspiracy by speech alone. The kind of hate speech that is outlawed is generally intended to intimidate or incite, hidden by a thin veil of being non-specific in terms of perpetrators, victims and means. That is to say, the "good people of this town" (KKK) is going to make sure the "people who don't belong" (negros) are "not welcome here" (take your pick). The euphemisms don't really cover up that it's a call to action and to make sure the would-be victims "get the message" and refrain from exercising their freedoms and rights.

      Ultimately, your argument would like us to take extra steps up the chain of causality to ban things that aren't directly related to harm. How far up the chain of causality can we really go, or should we go? 2 or 3 steps seem just as arbitrary a demarcation as 20 or 40 steps.

      That depends on the strength of the links more than number of links. If a general gives an order it doesn't really matter how many degrees of indirection there is before a private pulls the trigger. If I put a line of candy out into the road hoping your kid will follow it without paying attention and get run over, I think most people would say that's highly malignant even though I had very little control over what, if anything, would happen because the underlying intent to cause a sequence of events leading to harm was there. As opposed to the goodie bag tearing as I cross the street without me noticing and it happening entirely by accident. It's like saying we're here, we want to be there, between us there's private land nobody told anyone to break the law by trespassing. But really everyone can add 2+2.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    13. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's wrong when people get hurt.
      See here Alex Jones caught on tape planning terror attacks against Clinton rally: video link.

    14. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd love to visit this black and white world you live in! It must make things so easy not to have to actually reason and just make binary decisions not based in reality.

    15. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 2, Informative

      > And we have a GOP office being firebombed [cnn.com] just the other day.

      Interesting how you ignore the context in which it happened - the same week where almost the entire remaining republican guard abandoned Trump and Trump made several public speeches accusing them of disloyalty, of rigging the election etc. etc. etc.

      There is at LEAST even odds that it was a Trump supporter who did it, to punish the GOP establishment for not supporting Trump any more. We won't know for sure until somebody is arrested but considering when it happened - that's still a very likely scenario. More likely, in fact, than that a democrat did it - why would we BOTHER ? Trump's poll numbers are down by double-digits compared to Clinton - right now we're soaring, what could we possibly gain from it ? Trump voters have a lot more to be angry about right now, Clinton supporters are busy celebrating.

      I'm not saying that there aren't fascist elements on the left - but to suggest that they are not vastly more prominent on the right is just plain ignorant, the ENTIRE religious-right/moral majority brigade fall in that category and they are all on the right, and fascism literally has no closer ally than neo-NAZIs - Hitler was one of THE proto-fascists, something he learned form it's inventor: his close friend Mussolini.
      Generally - if the left doesn't like what you have to say - we will respond by excercising our own own freedom of speech and association - for example with boycotts. It's only in rare cases where real, measurable harm is being done by speech that the left as a whole would support laws against that speech.

      The right on the hand have been trying to ban everything with a nipple for 30 years.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    16. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Maritz · · Score: 1

      More to the point, don't pretend that "the right" or "the left" is a heterogeneous mass.

      Yeah but if you don't give him that, he literally ends up with nothing and has to shut up. Not really gonna happen is it.

      People like that have to rage against one monolithic enemy, even if it doesn't really exist. Because the alternative is a complicated world.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    17. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Except your group goes out and make it a point to get others to ostracize the group whose beliefs and opinions differ from yours using the threat of wielding social and economic punishment against them if they don't align with your politics. Fundamentally anti-democratic.

      LOL. Boo-fucking-hoo. If your ideas die out in the marketplace, tough shit.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    18. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Actually no - that is fundamentally democratic. OPPOSING our right to do so is what's fundamentally undemocratic. In fact - the ability to do so is literally WHY we have freedoms !

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    19. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Maritz · · Score: 1

      >It amuses.

      But I really, really hate you. How can you possibly be amused with all of the malevolence I've directly conveyed to you with my words, you utter ponce.

      Well, he's taken your words for what they are, the bleating of a impotent hateful gimp. ;)

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    20. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Except that we also read Neil Stephenson and got a real gritty look at what a world without strong government looks like - and it's nothign but unadulterated evil. So the smart ones learned to trust nobody with power (that includes the power of being very rich). And yes we demand government restrain the power of the rich - because it's the only weapon we have against them - while we ourselves restrain the government through the weapons we have against them - like the courts and the ballot.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    21. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by shilly · · Score: 2

      Really not sure why you think this contradicts what I was saying. I was referring to the blithering idiot who doesn't understand why a consumer boycott is a completely different thing from a firebombing.

    22. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by shilly · · Score: 1

      Look, sometimes the chain of causality is lengthy and inconclusive, and sometimes it's short and obvious unless you're being wilfully blind. Examples of the latter include shouting fire in a crowded theatre, shouting "kill him" to a friend who's aiming a gun at another person's head, etc. And in many legal jurisdictions, it includes shouting "death to the Jews" or what have you -- hate speech.

      And of course, this article isn't about a government seeking to restrain speech. It's about a cartoonist using a symbol he created in the way he wants to, against a backdrop of people using it in ways he doesn't approve of. So I can't really see what the problem is here. In fact, I can't see how those who purport to defend free speech in the absolutist way you have done would have a problem with him using the symbol any damn way he wants to.

    23. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Harmonious society? Who are you? Xi Jinping?

    24. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That claptrap was marked as "Insightful"? Contrary to your thesis, hate speech has an immediate effect on those it is directed at. Not only does it have a supressive effect that causes those it is directed at to hide and limit their actions in such a way as to prevent personal liberty, it does indeed cause real emotional harm, which cannot merely be ignored or blocked out any more than we can deny our own biological heritage as social mammals (unless, I guess, you have abnormal development - psychopathy, for example). I suspect that anyone making the argument you did may very well be on this scale, and sees society as just a bunch of moving biomatons that are unaccountably not killing each other for their precious, precious resources.

      What I do know for sure is that you have never been in a position to have any meaningful hate speech directed at you, so cannot possibly be in a position to understand or judge its effects.

    25. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I misinterpreted your post then, and was responding to what I *thought* you meant.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    26. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Bingo. They are quite explicit about it when pushed too:

      expecting people to be allowed to have contrary opinions and not attacking them for is it [sic]

      They go around screaming at everyone else about their Freedom of Speech, while demanding that others hold their tongue because the consequences of what they are saying are unpalatable.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    27. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please don't use the enemy's phrases, this helps them. Put "hate" speech, like that, because the word 'hate' doesn't mean "telling the truth which the Left doesn't want you to hear" or "simply daring to disagree with the Left, the international bankers, and the media"...

    28. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that you are not the final arbiter of what is right and wrong. Your hate speech is my factual FBI crime statistics. You want to ban them as hate, because it is inconvenient for your political agenda.

      You're the evil fascist in this scenario.

    29. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In another article on Slashdot, we have people boycotting a Silicon Valley business associated with a CEO who has dared to donate to Trump.

      So you find it reprehensible that people decide how to spend their money, based on what that money is used for? Funny argument from a standpoint that equates giving money to free speech.

    30. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Mashiki · · Score: 2

      Oh boy! Everyone's favorite anti-democratic pro-fascist poster is back! I wonder if I can now count you as my own personal stalker.

      Yes, expecting that people have different opinions and *not* attacking them is fascism for you. Good to see you're still so cowardly that in that same thread you haven't responded to anything else, while still claiming "I'm attacking people" when I show you the face of the modern left engaging in witch hunts. Perhaps you'd like another? Like this person who's also on the far-left, self-identifies as a SJW and openly advocating people and fire bombing business for having a different opinion.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    31. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by jmac_the_man · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In another article on Slashdot, we have people boycotting a Silicon Valley business associated with a CEO who has dared to donate to Trump.

      That's freedom of association and it's at least as fundamental a right as free speech.

      Good thing the startups aren't making wedding cakes.

    32. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      In another article on Slashdot, we have people boycotting a Silicon Valley business associated with a CEO who has dared to donate to Trump.

      That's freedom of association and it's at least as fundamental a right as free speech. If that's how they choose to stand up for what they believe in, that's their business. You and I, in turn, may use this information to decide whom we want to associate with. I don't see the problem.

      It's good to see someone understands this. It's unfortunate that many people will only apply this when it is in terms of liberals being able to disassociate from people on the right, but won't apply it to a baker or photographer who doesn't want to participate in a ceremony they believe to be sacrilegious.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    33. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And by "break the stranglehold" what you really mean is that it was a tool for genocide in a campaign to destroy a culture that rich new englanders wanted to pilfer.

    34. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by RoccamOccam · · Score: 2
      http://www.realclearpolitics.c...

      A new video investigation released Monday by James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas Action shows how Democratic-aligned organizations used a tactic called 'bird-dogging' to incite violence and chaos at Trump rallies for media consumption. A key Clinton operative is captured on camera saying, "It doesn’t matter what the friggin’ legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker."

    35. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      It's wrong when people get hurt. See here Alex Jones caught on tape planning terror attacks against Clinton rally: video link.

      That video link shows the opposite of what you claim.

      A new video investigation released Monday by James O’Keefe’s Project Veritas Action shows how Democratic-aligned organizations used a tactic called 'bird-dogging' to incite violence and chaos at Trump rallies for media consumption. A key Clinton operative is captured on camera saying, "It doesn’t matter what the friggin’ legal and ethics people say, we need to win this motherfucker."

    36. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 0

      Oh boy! Everyone's favorite anti-democratic pro-fascist poster is back! I wonder if I can now count you as my own personal stalker.

      Oh hey, I thought I was your favorite anti-democratic pro-fascist poster. I guess I'm only your second favorite now :(

      Tell you what, I don't really have much time, so can you just make your usual claims about what I said then provide me with a long list of links, none of which actually contain anything relevant?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    37. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 0

      So wait... let me get this straight. You're supporting the crown prince of hte idea that nothing you say can possibly be bad - yet you're absolving Trumpkins of responsibility for violence because somebody was taunting them ?

      You can't have it both way. If those Hillary supporters are to blame for the violence at Trump rallies - then using hate-speech is actual violence.

      Of course the law has ALWAYS held that way - which is why 'fighting words' is considered a first strike and rules out a self-defence plea. Yet somehow, magically, that stops being the case when you use fighting words about an entire group of people ? Simply put - if you use hate-speech against somebody, regardless of whether it's legal or not - they are fully justified to kick your ass for it and the law has held that for thousands of years. So... all in all.. it's probably better to stop you from saying those kinds of things because society works better when we prevent situations that are pretty much guaranteed to escalate to violence and give people non-violent ways to resolve legitimate disputes.
      That using hate speech does create a legitimate dispute is absolutely established by the existence of the 'fighting words' doctrine.

      So tit for tat. If Trump can be 'politically incorrect' - then I can taunt his supporters and if they punch me it's ONLY their fault. You can't have it both ways.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    38. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You have repeatedly cited Eich as you example of when someone should not be "attacked". By that definition, attacking is criticising and declining to use products he is associated with. Therefore, you are anti-free speech, because you clearly stated that you think people should not speak when it can be inconvenient for someone else.

      What specifically did people in the Eich case that isn't simply them exercising freedom of speech which you object to? You keep saying they "forced" him out of his job, but never how they did it beyond simply stating their opinions of him.

      By the way, I'm not the Left's or SJW's official spokesperson, so don't expect me to justify or apologise for other people you cite as examples.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    39. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kykes take offence on anything. The only solution to this problem is the final solution.

    40. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by operagost · · Score: 1

      In a truly free society, people could just murder, assault, rape, and steal with no consequences, except for vigilante justice. That's why we make these crimes illegal.

      So you equate unpopular speech with physical actions like murder, rape, and theft.

      YOU'RE PART OF THE PROBLEM.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    41. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by operagost · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You beat me to it. Freedom of association is a wonderful thing to the left when it means boycotts and riots. In business and public schools? Not so much.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    42. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Oh hey, I thought I was your favorite anti-democratic pro-fascist poster. I guess I'm only your second favorite now :(

      Tell you what, I don't really have much time, so can you just make your usual claims about what I said then provide me with a long list of links, none of which actually contain anything relevant?

      Well since I've never called you that, I'm sure you can cough up the links where I've labeled you that.

      Sure, you want me to start with your anti-gamergate stuff, or the parts where you refuse to look at actual evidence of anti-gamergate people engaging in everything that you claim GG did. I mean you've got great company with this guy right here. Or do you want me to start with the stuff regarding twitter again that you refused to look at and ran away over?

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    43. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Unless what you're trying to exercise your democratic right not to associate with happens to be one of the blessed "protected classes." Then your rights are trumped (npi) by theirs.

      Some animals were created more equal than others, evidently.

    44. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by operagost · · Score: 1

      There is at LEAST even odds that it was a Trump supporter who did it, to punish the GOP establishment for not supporting Trump any more.

      Even odds, with absolutely no evidence? That's some interesting math.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    45. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The use of Federal hate crime legislation was the only way the
      >stranglehold of White Supremacist Jim Crow laws were finally
      >loosed in the former slave states,
      Wow so Jim Crow Laws were a major problem until the mid 1990's, ( http://www.hrc.org/resources/h... ). And having been deep in the legislative process, I can say there never was a clause that says this applies only to former slave owning states (which would have been almost all of them). Who the hell modded this crap up.??
      Now on the other hand civil rights legislation did have a major impact on jim crow laws, and most of the overt forms of oppression.......
      It is the little nit picking things that make all the difference.
      Remember Civil rights act brought to you by the same party that worked so hard to keep slavery as an institution..... Ahem abraham lincoln ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ) a proud member of the republican party, now being represented by a potato chip, how the times have changed.

    46. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      There is no crime in a citizen choosing not to associate with anybody so you're full of shit.
      The only exceptions to that law is a public servant or a business- which are, legitimate, exceptions - because without those exceptions if you're unlucky enough to be born in the wrong class you can very easily be unable to buy food, unable to procure any services - even find yourself unable to get a driving license because the local DMV officer doesn't like your class.

      Basically - you're just plain lying since anybody else is - in fact - perfectly free to not associate based on any of those classes. You may draw scorn (well deserved scorn) but government will do nothing to stop you.

      This is not universal - in South Africa for example - people have a constitutional right to be free from discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation, religion, creed, disability (or a few others). So your right to freedom of association is, in fact, curtailed by that. Nobody has ever prosecuted a private citizen for violating that - but it could theoretically happen. The government has chosen not to use the police to do it - and instead such cases are handled by a special court which only has the power to give fines and can only act on a complaint being laid (so it's treated as a civil case). But that restriction does exist. You cannot create a club for white people only - even a non-commercial one. It's illegal. You also cannot run a business in a way that de facto discriminates - even if not explicitely, so for example a restaurant dress code cannot be written such that most black people could not afford an acceptable outfit.

      In US law - that right is significantly smaller, people only have a legal right not to be discriminated against by public servants (as representatives of the government) or public businesses (which are legally required to serve all comers).

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    47. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you believe that every white person on the planet should be FORCED to live in a multi-racial society, against their wishes?

      Why?

      Wouldn't it be a lot better if the whites who WANTED to live in a multi-racial society simply moved to Brazil, or somewhere in Africa, or India, or China? Then there would be no more non-whites suffering the terrible pain of 'racism' from the white people whose countries they have FORCED themselves into.

      Where have you been?

    48. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      With no evidence - the odds would be EXACTLY even - since we would have absolutely no way to predict which of the two groups that despise the GOP establishment had done this action. Since we DO have some evidence, but that evidence is entirely circumstantial, I used the term 'at least' since in fact, the odds are slightly in favour of it being a Trump supporter. At the time of the events there were far more Trump supporters with much more motive than democrats who could have done it. The phrase 'NAZI' on the wall slightly reduces those odds - since accusing Trump of NAZISm (extremely accurately) has been common among democrats since his campaign began. But then - a lot of his voters are probably quite uneducated enough not to see the resemblence between their candidate and NAZI policies and could potentially be living under a false impression that in the GOP establishment is more NAZI like than he is (it would not be the first complete and utter falsehood they have laboured under). So that one is slightly in favour of a leftist, but less clear-cut than the timing and Trump's own words at the time -which only influence his side of the equation.
      Then there is one last major consideration. The democrats have been doing serious outreach to sane republicans, to rather vote for Hillary this time round because Trump is so vile. This attack, if done by a democrat, would seriously undermine their own election strategy. Right now the democrats and the GOP establishment are almost allies against Trump - look at all the republicans who have chosen to endorse Hillary. Hell George H.W. Bush will be the first ex-president in a century NOT to vote for his party's candidate (and the last one was running against that candidate as an independent). That significantly reduces the odds of a leftist doing this. People generally try not to deliberately undermine their own cause.

      These are legitimate considerations - which means instead of being absolutely even odds - it tilts the odds. Collectively - more towards a Trumpkin, we don't really know by how much which is why I carefully avoided giving a specific number, just an estimation. There's enough data to estimate but not to calculate.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    49. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by RoccamOccam · · Score: 1

      I don't absolve anybody of anything. That's quite a leap that you make!

    50. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "The only type of speech in need of protection is that which someone considers offensive and wants to ban. I consider hate speech a good thing because it's indicative of a free society. "

      Err? That's a VERY odd twist to put on it. I'm a Brit, and you will probably ignore me, but I thought the point of freedom of speech is that _all_ speech is protected, _even_ offensive speech. It's not that only offensive speech is in need of protection, it is that all speech can be suppressed if it is not.

      Hate speech is not in any way indicative of a free society, though -- because such speech tends to exist whether or not it is protected. And the idea that it is a 'good thing' is delusional.

    51. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      There is no crime in a citizen choosing not to associate with anybody so you're full of shit.

      anybody else is - in fact - perfectly free to not associate based on any of those classes. You may draw scorn (well deserved scorn) but government will do nothing to stop you.

      Bullshit. You moved the goalpost from business to personal association, then back it up with the law rather than the basic facts of the actions. Then you proceed to argue as if the law can be assumed to be equitable; a belief comparable to believing that angels and Santa Claus are real.

      You're fine with Pao and co. not doing business with someone else because they choose not to associate with them, because you approve of their reasons. Those reasons are literally the only difference between their actions and the racist actions you're so vehemently denouncing.

      The only exceptions to that law is a public servant or a business- which are, legitimate, exceptions - because without those exceptions if you're unlucky enough to be born in the wrong class you can very easily be unable to buy food, unable to procure any services - even find yourself unable to get a driving license because the local DMV officer doesn't like your class.

      The same consequences can be had by someone who openly holds the "wrong" political positions; Several other comments brought up that so-called "hate speech" may, in fact, have a "chilling effect" on those it targets, and that may well be true. So can behavior like this, but your arguments here suggest that you're okay with the position that the Trump supporter "should just keep quiet, and he'll have no problems." Apparently, sometimes, it's okay, if it just chases the "bad" people away.

    52. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      But they're inciting riots and blocking freeways.

      The modern left are fascists. The Podesta emails prove they own the media and the whole show is staged, the undercover videos prove they're using threats and violence to intimidate their political opposition (and in an organized, directed fashion), and now they've got their own Kristallnacht firebombing the opposition's political organizations. This is the part where you're supposed to say "Are we the baddies?"

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    53. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Now you are even more full of shit and your own example is not even an example of what you claim it is. Nobody has declared that they will refuse to do business with Peter Thiel the person. If anybody did it would be illegal anyway since Thiel is in a protected class (he is gay).

      His company is being boycotted by another. Thats an entirely different thing. Freedom of association applies to people not businesses. So simply put: businesses cannot discriminate against people but anybody can discriminate against a business. Whether its moral or not can be debateable but its never illegal and the right does it just as often. Just in the last year the right has boycotted Starbucks for not supporting open-carry, chipotle for supporting gay marriage, target for not arbitrarily gendering toys (its easy. If you do not use a toy on genitals its for either boys or girls and if you do its not for children) and dozens of businesses for allowing trans people to piss in peace. But apparently boycotts are only oppresive when the left does it ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    54. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Then you proceed to argue as if the law can be assumed to be equitable; a belief comparable to believing that angels and Santa Claus are real."

      Uhh, apparently you failed to remember "Equal Protection Under The Law" which is DIRECTLY WRITTEN in our laws, which makes it absolutely real.

      Not my fault if you're too much of a bitch to stand up and fight for your rights in a courtroom and let others trample over them.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    55. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by DRJlaw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You beat me to it. Freedom of association is a wonderful thing to the left when it means boycotts and riots. In business and public schools? Not so much.

      You're free to become a closed-membership baker. The fact that it's commercially infeasible is your own problem. If you want to sell to the public, then you have to sell to the entire public, not just white anglo-saxon protestant straights.

      Next thing you know they'll demand that businesses sell to blacks. The nerve of some people...

    56. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Sure, you want me to start with your anti-gamergate stuff, or the parts where you refuse to look at actual evidence of anti-gamergate people engaging in everything that you claim GG did. I mean you've got great company with this guy right here. Or do you want me to start with the stuff regarding twitter again that you refused to look at and ran away over?

      Sure, do all of those! I could use a laugh.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    57. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by fnj · · Score: 1

      You are confused. Libel and slander are civil, not criminal, infractions. Hate speech has only been criminalized in certain jurisdictions in application to certain protected racial and other classes. You are perfectly free to express hate of specific individuals or of unprotected classes such as people with decorative body piercings, or people who dye their hair pink. Threats of bodily or other harm, and incitement to violence are a different thing than expressions of strong dislike.

      Attempting to ban or prohibit the use of symbols, or call their use an expression of hate or derision, is a slippery slope. A picture of a frog is a picture of a frog. You end up with such absurdities as ruling the display of the national flag as an "incitement".

    58. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Uhh, apparently you failed to remember "Equal Protection Under The Law" which is DIRECTLY WRITTEN in our laws, which makes it absolutely real.

      I didn't "fail to remember" anything. There's what's "directly written in our laws" and then there's reality, where things that explicitly contradict "Equal Protection Under the Law" are also "directly written in our laws."

    59. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by quantaman · · Score: 1

      If speech doesn't offend anyone, nobody will try to ban it. The only type of speech in need of protection is that which someone considers offensive and wants to ban. I consider hate speech a good thing because it's indicative of a free society. One of the first things to go in a society that isn't free is hate speech, a fact that has been documented throughout history. Regimes that aren't free tend to restrict speech, and we need to promote free thought and free speech. In a free society, you should speak against hate speech rather than attempt to ban it.

      And speaking against speech is exactly what they're doing.

      In specific, the creator of Pepe the Frog is trying to reclaim his creation from being a symbol of hate speech.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    60. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Freedom of association applies to people not businesses

      Then why did you bring up "Freedom of Association" in the first place, since we're talking about two businesses?

      Whether its moral or not can be debateable but its never illegal

      I never said it was illegal, and I don't care if it is illegal - AFAIC, the US legal system has as much to do with "right vs wrong" as who the next Dr. Who companion is has on the orbit of Neptune.

      and the right does it just as often.

      If you're trying to make a case for being better than them, the kindergarten playground defense is probably not the best way to go about it.

      But apparently boycotts are only oppresive when the left does it ?

      You also didn't answer the question of why it's there's no moral (i.e. completely orthogonal to the law) contradiction in using "Freedom of Association" to ostracize and/or deny livelihoods to people who do or believe what you consider to be reprehensible things (as long as they're not religious reprehensible things), and someone else doing the same thing for doing or believing things they find equally reprehensible.

      You're the only one talking about "right and left" and oppression. I'm talking about internal consistency, and the all to common lack of it in this position.

    61. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      You know what happens when you're offended?

      Leprosy. You get Leprosy.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      and in some cases, people do kill or commit crimes based on it.

      Like ... firebombing a Trump HQ office? The problem is, that certain people claim "violence" is a response to hate speech, but instead of blaming the alt-left, they're likely to blame Trump for the firebombing. They're the same kind of person who blames rape victims because of the clothes she wears.

      being intimidated by hateful speech infringes

      The only people NOT being intimidated by the Alt-Left are alt-left. IF Intimidation is the requirement, then the real hate speech is that which wants to ban "hate speech". Nobody is really intimidated by WBC or the KLAN, because they are small and ineffectual. They exist, and have a right to exist, if only to show how stupid they are. But they are just as stupid as the Politically Correct Snowflakes who are "offended" by chalk marks on sidewalks. The problem is, there are way more snowflakes than WBC and Klansmen.

      I hope you wake up with leprosy.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    62. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      That is to say, the "good people of this town" (Professors) is going to make sure the "people who don't belong" (Conservative) are "not welcome here" (take your pick).

      The problem with people who say things like this, is that they don't recognize their own KKK like nature. It is easy to see once you realize it isn't based on color of skin, but how you think.

      1984 wasn't supposed to be a "how to" manual. It was supposed to be a warning. But instead, thought crime is an actual thing now (aka "hate crime"). it isn't too much of a stretch to see where this is going.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    63. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      It isn't a leap, it is binary thinking. If you're against Hillary, you must be for Trump. If you're against Trump, you must be for Hillary. While it might work in most cases, it doesn't always work, and generally people have a hard time fathoming the idea that some of us have brains and aren't supporting either of those two.

      This simplistic level of thinking is how we got Hillary and Donald in the first place. They are just too damn arrogant in their ignorance to admit it.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    64. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >Then why did you bring up "Freedom of Association" in the first place, since we're talking about two businesses?

      You're a complete idiot since there was no ambiguity about exactly what this line meant - seeing as the entire rest of my post was clarifying it.

      >If you're trying to make a case for being better than them, the kindergarten playground defense is probably not the best way to go about it.
      Please look up the word 'hypocrisy'. You can do so while you're grabbing the dictionary to look up 'fascism' - they are pretty close to each other.

      >You also didn't answer the question of why it's there's no moral (i.e. completely orthogonal to the law) contradiction in using "Freedom of Association" to ostracize and/or deny livelihoods to people who do or believe what you consider to be reprehensible things (as long as they're not religious reprehensible things), and someone else doing the same thing for doing or believing things they find equally reprehensible.

      Because there isn't one. But this is a discussion about liberty - and morality has absolutely nothing to do with that - that is a key feature of liberty. Liberty is about the law staying the fuck out of moral matters - so that different people can make different moral choices. However, if your morality is found reprehensible by so much of society that it actually deprives you the opportunity to earn a living - you really owe it to yourself to ask some critical questions about that morality, and if you are truly convinced that it is correct and everybody else is wrong - then perhaps it's time to excercise your freedom of association and freedom of movement rights and move somewhere you won't completely and utterly fail to fit in with the society you wish to be part off. But that is a matter of civilian interaction - generally, not a matter of the law - which makes it utterly irellevant to a discussion on liberty.
      The only worthwhile discussion on liberty to ever have is when it should be limited, and how much. Morality is hardly ever a reason to do so. Infringing on other people's rights generally is. Systemically infringing on their rights is an even better one. And generally - people should have (far) more rights than businesses - because there are huge and fundamentally differences. For a start - a human cannot be technically immortal.

      >You're the only one talking about "right and left" and oppression. I'm talking about internal consistency, and the all to common lack of it in this position.
      Then you jumped into a discussion with a completely offtopic one. This is a discussion about liberty - and the attitudes of left and right toward it. Both argue that the other mostly want the liberty to tell others how to live. Only the left is correct about that though.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    65. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      The democrats have been doing serious outreach to sane republicans, to rather vote for Hillary this time round because Trump is so vile.

      "Sane Republicans" --- I notice the passive aggressive voice there. ;)

      Actually all the sane people have gone to voting third party. (See what I did there?)

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    66. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 0

      >"Sane Republicans" --- I notice the passive aggressive voice there. ;)

      Mmm, fair point, let me rephrase - republicans not AS insane as Trump. You're right, actual sanity and conservatism cannot exist in the same brain. It would be like a tropical rain forest and a tundra in the same back yard.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    67. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look into that case a little more. The bakery refused to make the cake, the couple left. The bakery posted the couple's information on Facebook and suggested their followers harass the couple. THEN they sued.

    68. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The alt-right and ctrl-left are both full of hypocritical shitbags, much like this year's presidential election headliners.

      They go around screaming at everyone else about their Freedom of Speech, while demanding that others hold their tongue because the consequences of what they are saying are unpalatable.

      Compared to the people who go around screaming at everyone else that what they say is unpalatable, while demanding that others not blame them for the consequences of what they are saying because of their Freedom of Speech? Sorry, I forgot, which group is which again?

    69. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by kangsterizer · · Score: 1

      I wish I could mod that higher.

    70. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Both argue that the other mostly want the liberty to tell others how to live. Only the left is correct about that though.

      Wow. Okay, now that my irony meter is blown, I'm outta here. Pax.

    71. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      never how they did it beyond simply stating their opinions of him.

      What, that's a requirement now? Show how "simply stating their opinions" of someone causes them harm? Is that something that the ctrl-left is going to stick to themselves, or are we still going to have to grovel when we accidentally address someone without asking every single person we meet their preferred pronouns because being called "you" instead of "your Highness" (how did that harm them?)

      I'm not the Left's or SJW's official spokesperson, so don't expect me to justify or apologise

      No, no, of course not. The problem is that there's no official spokesperson, so everyone has to deal with an amorphous blob that pulls that excuse whenever some faction causes a real problem. It's like /b/ all over again, except instead of attacking Sony, Scientologists and kids' games, they attack people wearing a shirt their girlfriend made for them, or VR devices that were sold to Facebook by some guy who gave $10,000 to some conservative group. (Thanks for that, by the way! Those of us who hated Luckey for selling out to Facebook for $billions after supporting him on kickstarter couldn't get anywhere with our complaints, but the dog pack has done a great job of fucking Oculus over, better than those of use with legitimate complaints ever could.) And yes, it's very much a dog pack: someone blows the dog whistle and sics the pack on a target then steps back and says "I'm not in charge here, this isn't my fault".

      Sometimes, there are bad tactics. The people who are participating in them should be expected to justify them.

    72. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Professors are lynching conservative students on campus? I'm clearly watching the wrong fake news channel.

    73. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      he's

      How dare you assume throatwarblermangroves (possessive pronouns are not apostrophe'd) preferred pronoun, shitlord?

    74. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      It's fairly easy to show that what actually happens is:
      The left says "Group X should not be punished for being who they are"
      The right says "Group X is an abomination and saying I can't mistreat them to force them to be like me is telling ME how to live".

      Every single time.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    75. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by khallow · · Score: 1

      Everything is wrong with hate symbols

      I can't help but notice that "everything" doesn't encompass much. We're deep in "mountain out of a molehill" territory.

    76. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by operagost · · Score: 1

      It's quite clear to everyone that's not what I meant. Thanks for the straw man, though. Never get tired of those!

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    77. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you're just not fucking paying attention.

    78. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know you are but what am I. Be useful or piss off mate.

    79. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You beat me to it. Freedom of association is a wonderful thing to the left when it means boycotts and riots. In business and public schools? Not so much.

      You're free to become a closed-membership baker. The fact that it's commercially infeasible is your own problem. If you want to sell to the public, then you have to sell to the entire public, not just white anglo-saxon protestant straights.

      Why?

    80. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lynch mobs and boycotts were the standard tactics used in the Jim Crow South by Democrats to deal with 'uppity' blacks and their white supporters.
      Does a white person support equal rights? Just talk to his employer, and poof! He doesn't have a job anymore. A little more talk, and his landlord won't rent to him anymore. Another conversation, and utilities won't deal with him.
      He's left jobless, homeless, helpless.

      But that's just fine, right? His ideas, of equality and freedom, died out in the marketplace. Though shit for him.

    81. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      And you're still assuming I'm "the right", which is cute.

    82. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      I can't help but notice that "everything" doesn't encompass much.

      I don't mean that hate symbols cause everything bad, merely that hate symbols have no redeeming features whatsoever. And by that I do not mean that people should be arrested for using them.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    83. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your hate speech is my factual FBI crime statistics.

      I didn't know the FBI collects statistics on altcucks using Pepe memes. You learn something every day.

    84. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Except your group [...]

      Since you addressed that to me, a clarification is in order: What "group" have you assigned me to? Is this like those suburbs of Chicago where you're assigned to a gang at puberty entirely by virtue of which block you live on?

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    85. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      It's good to see someone understands this. It's unfortunate that many people will only apply this when it is in terms of liberals being able to disassociate from people on the right, but won't apply it to a baker or photographer who doesn't want to participate in a ceremony they believe to be sacrilegious.

      I agree with the thrust of what you're saying, but I'm going to add two caveats.

      First, companies are legal fictions, created through government regulation. They do not have the same rights that people do. In return for government benefits (e.g. limited liability), you agree to play by the government's rules.

      Secondly, professionals are bound by professional ethics which may conflict with their personal rights to the point where the only solution may be to find a different job. So I have less of a problem with a sole trader photographer refusing to participate in a ceremony they disapprove of (which, I might add, could be as simple as saying "can't do it that day") than I do with a pharmacist refusing to dispense birth control.

      And as always, freedom of speech and freedom of association does not imply freedom from consequences.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    86. Re:What's wrong with hate symbols? by khallow · · Score: 1

      merely that hate symbols have no redeeming features whatsoever.

      Aside from being an easy way to self-identify as a dick. Oh look, my interviewee has a Nazi swastika tattooed on their forehead, Guess who just told me they a) don't want the job and b) would be a pain in the ass, if I did hire them. Hurray for efficient communication!

    87. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I never assumed anything of the kind. I merely - using a generic explanation, pointed out the objective truth over which group is really anti-liberty.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    88. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by shilly · · Score: 1

      No harm, no foul...

    89. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      And as always, freedom of speech and freedom of association does not imply freedom from consequences.

      Absolutely not. I'd expect that anyone who discriminates on any basis should probably take a beating in lost sales, which is the natural remedy of the marketplace.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    90. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      Neither group gives an airborne copulation at a ventrally rotating toroid about "liberty", they just declare their own particular doctrine to be $liberty and then claim the other side is anti-$liberty, which becomes semi-true if you allow for inline evaluation. It's just like the zealous supporters of a certain licensing when they declare that their license is "free as in freedom*" (*using our specially crafted definition of freedom). If that redefinition is rejected, there's nothing on either side but propaganda and bullshit.

    91. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Preventing person A from removing a freedom from person B is the ONLY sane definition of defending freedom. Failure to do so is the only sane definition of anti-freedom. By comparing the liberal Americans to the GPL supporters, you only proved my point. And proved you are either anti-freedom yourself or a psychopath - the only types of people who would not instantly see that this is the only logical definition.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    92. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by geminidomino · · Score: 1

      And proved you are either anti-freedom yourself or a psychopath - the only types of people who would not instantly see that this is the only logical definition.

      "If you don't agree with me, you're obviously crazy."

      Yeah, there's the circlejerk event horizon. Nothing left for me to do here, so I'll just let you get back to fapping to your slightly-right-of-Ghenghis-Khan Harpy-queen.

    93. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's exactly what you said. The entire post. Without editing.

      Categorically not a strawman.

    94. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >"If you don't agree with me, you're obviously crazy."
      Actually no - I think you're just anti-freedom. But the people you listen to are psychopaths.

      Oh and rather the circlejerk of logic with the same evidence can only ever lead to one conclusion (that's literally what logic is FOR) than the clusterfuck of whatever everybody gets to choose their own facts.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    95. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps the firebombing was more like the Reichstag Fire.

    96. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by Mashiki · · Score: 1
      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    97. Re: What's wrong with hate symbols? by jwhitener · · Score: 1

      jmac_the_man and operagost

      You are confusing entirely separate things.

      Not shopping at a business is completely different than refusing service to someone as a business owner. We, as a country, decided a long time ago, that private business owners cannot refuse service to people based on specially protected attributes: race, religion, etc., and in many state constitutions, sexual orientation.

      Would you defend cake-makers from refusing service to Christians? Or to women? Even if you say yes, it doesn't matter. It is completely illegal and has been for a long time. As an individual, I can choose to not shop at a store for any reason I want. Even if my reason is I hate stores that have blue paint on them. There are no laws that force me to treat businesses equally. If someone decides to not shop at a store because that store has a sign out front saying "I love trump", that is perfectly fine. Can you see the difference?

      Here is a test for you: every time you think someone is being persecuted for refusing to serve a gay person, or refusing to marry a gay person, just replace the word gay with one of the other protected classes. Replace gay with "black", or with "christian", or with "female", and see if your argument still makes sense under the law.

      You might want the laws changed to allow businesses to discriminate based on protected classes, but that is an entirely different argument.

  4. Insanity by s.petry · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yup, we are currently living with wide spread insanity. Facts no longer matter, and people who don't believe in your political opinion are spreading hate.

    Question though: Who is attempting to stifle speech? The people with the opposing opinion or those on the left? So are they making the frog a symbol of hate speech? I'm very confused.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. There is only one party attempting to stifle free speech and promoting violence.

    2. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this guy's now sided with the clinton campaign to attack trump as a means of saving pepe? LOL, this guy has no clue what he's just done. If he thought the shit pepe was showing up in before was bad, just watch what people will come up with now.

    3. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yeah, the people pretending the vote is rigged and racist nazi types should go out and "enforce the vote" to ensure it isn't "stolen" lol.

      Trumpnazis are pathetic human beings but PARTICULARLY bad Americans. They like to pretend the 1st and 2nd Amendments outweigh the 10th and 14th.

    4. Re: Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, the Dems, feminists, blacks, LGBT etc. Who always try to shut down free speech just so they can stay in their "safe spaces" and live ignorantly in bliss

    5. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol, it was Hillary's campaign that started all that election rigging crap.

      >racist nazi
      Lol. Dumbass, is there any other kind?

      >pretend the 1st and 2nd
      Lol, Well, they literally are at the top of the list, aren't they?

    6. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My poor, fellow AC. I know you don't know much about the Constitution, but unless you're going to want somebody to believe that somehow the 10th and 14th are in conflict with the 1st and 2nd, there's no argument here. You're constructing a really weird strawman while also going out of your way to invoke Godwin's as many times as you can.

      How is anyone "pretending the vote is rigged" in this election? If there is evidence that would suggest that rigging is possible, and very likely given past events, then it would be a pretty strange event to pretend something that is happening.

      I don't know why you think that encouraging violence against people you like is ok. You wouldn't have any other reason to repeatedly call people you disagree with "nazis" and the like. Very distressing.

    7. Re:Insanity by rtb61 · · Score: 0

      The whole left right paradigm has been totally corrupted by corporations. Reality is you have left/right on one spectrum and then another spectrum, a parrallel one, is more simply a measure of corporate corruption and neither left nor right, simply more or less egoistic, more or less purposefully destructive and more or less likely to commit high crimes and crimes against humanity. They do this whilst pretending to be left or right on the other actual political scale but that scale for them just represents what they will masquerade as. The actual scale is more like stealing everything possible at one end of the spectrum and killing as many as possible on the other end of the spectrum, they are sick people).

      Main stream media is of course championing the charade, the pretend left and the pretend right and of course blaming the actual real political left and the actual real political right for all the bullshit coming from the corporate stooges pretending to be left of right. This as suits what ever political scam they are pushing at the moment, fake war, attacks on citizens rights, faking an election, polluting the environment, theft of resources, collapsing infrastructure, major fraud (seriously huge fraud, billions of dollars stolen, like they spent $500 million on fake terrorist videos, no they didn't. They stole the majority of that money and it would be a miracle if they had spent 1/10 of it on what they claimed to be spending it on, come on, every one has seen the fake videos, there are not that many and they are not that good) and targeted attacks on individuals and groups.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    8. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How is anyone "pretending the vote is rigged" in this election?" - Do you live in a barn without access to evil media, by any chance?

    9. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My guess is that Matt Furie is suddenly going to find a new found enthusiasm for DMCA takedown notices.

      captcha: pathetic

    10. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Rigging" - as Trump has used it- doesn't refer to election fraud (some people have concerns along those lines, but afaik Trump hasn't gone there). Trump is referring to the type of rigging that doomed Bernie and the reality that the corporate media is largely working as an arm of the Clinton campaign.

      I.e. the "technically legal but shady as fuck" type of 'rigging' that people rightly identify with the kind of corruption they want excised from politics and government.

    11. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >4chan
      >DMCA takedown

      Bahahaha good luck with that. The thread would be autopruned before you finished filling out the form.

    12. Re:Insanity by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't you be working the phone banks?

      Chop-chop now. Elections don't win themselves!

    13. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, we are currently living with wide spread insanity.

      Because life is too easy. You don't hear this kind of shit in poor countries.

    14. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, obviously it won't work for 4chan since, as you said, all posts are eventually autopruned. But Twitter enforces DMCA's and that's where the trouble with Pepe really began.

    15. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IOW Trump has nothing, just doing everything possible to sow doubt, justified or no.

    16. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gotta keep makin' dat CTR dolla-dolla bills, y'all.

      Shill for Hill 2016

    17. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like Clinton was doing when claimed that Russia was going to rig the election (in fact, her campaign and the Obama administration are still claiming that the Russians are interfering with the election) when she was slightly behind in some polls.

    18. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It only began on twitter in the sense that Don Jr. retweeted an awesome 'Deplorables' poster with Pepe in it that people were desperately scrambling to manufacture a reason to be outraged about. All (good) memes begin on 4chan.

      In any case, same principle applies: by the time the takedown went through no one would give a shit about the post anymore anyway.

    19. Re:Insanity by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Can you describe "technically legal but shady as fuck" "rigging"? If people are not constrained or otherwise inhibited in their use of their constitutional right to vote, and if those ballots are not fabricated or otherwise mishandled in a way to commit an act of electoral fraud, then what exactly goes through a voter's head as they mark their ballot is their concern alone, and the idea that somehow their vote is worth less because they don't happen to agree with you, or they don't choose to assess the best candidate with the resources you feel they should is, well, to be perfectly blunt, none of your fucking business.

      It's too bad the Republicans picked a candidate so awful that he's turning even some die-hard Republican groups, so awful that there is at least some evidence now that he's going to start hurting downticket races (we'll see how bad that is likely within a week). But to somehow assert that someone's vote is worth less because they don't exclusively read Breitbart and go around shouting "Jail Clinton", well, that is anti-democratic.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    20. Re:Insanity by MightyMartian · · Score: 0

      And lo and behold, evidence mounts that Russia has been using Assange and Wikileaks to do just thata, which is why even Ecuador has finally decided that it can no longer tolerate its embassy's resources being used as a conduit between Russia and Assange, and between Assange and everyone else. I doubt Ecuador is that much fonder of the US than it was before, but I doubt it also wants to become a Kremlin stooge.

      As it is, it doesn't matter. The odds of Trump pulling off a turnaround with three weeks to go is well below 20%, and by some estimates probably less than 10% (depending on how you weight certain polls).

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    21. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go ahead and prove it. So far, the Obama administration has provided ZERO hard evidence to the public that Russia is involved in the email hacks or that it is the source of leaks to Wikileaks. It's provided actually less evidence that what the Bush administration provided to prove Iraq was 1)involved in the 911 attack; 2)acquiring WMD's, and yet here we go threatening a "cyberwar" with Russia.

      BTW, Ecuador cut the Assange's internet after Wikileaks published her Goldman Sachs speeches. I take this to mean that you can fuck with US Presidential politics, but don't dare fuck with international bankers.

    22. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Repeated DMCA violations will get you kicked off of Twitter. So now the deplorables can't tweet risky Pepe without running afoul of possible copyright infringement.

    23. Re:Insanity by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      You do know that the ammendments are numbered chronologically - not by importance, right ? Right ?!

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    24. Re:Insanity by Maritz · · Score: 0

      Facts no longer matter, and people who don't believe in your political opinion are spreading hate.

      Seeing as facts are important to you, I expect you'll change your opinion based on this from the ADL website:

      "However, because so many Pepe the Frog memes are not bigoted in nature, it is important to examine use of the meme only in context. The mere fact of posting a Pepe meme does not mean that someone is racist or white supremacist. However, if the meme itself is racist or anti-Semitic in nature, or if it appears in a context containing bigoted or offensive language or symbols, then it may have been used for hateful purposes."

      So there you go. It is not a hate symbol by default, but depends on context. You can relax.

      Oh actually, you're going to ignore that and keep on talking as though a monolithic decision to declare the frog a hate symbol has been made, aren't you? Because the real, more reasonable position, isn't as useful to you.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    25. Re:Insanity by Maritz · · Score: 2

      Lol, it was Hillary's campaign that started all that election rigging crap.

      Really? Got a link? All I see if Trump whinging about rigging (maybe because he knows he's going to lose, because he's a detestable character)?

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    26. Re:Insanity by shilly · · Score: 1

      "afaik Trump hasn't gone there"

      That's a pretty impressive rock you live under, my friend. Trump tweets on this subject include: "Of course there is large scale voter fraud happening on and before election day. Why do Republican leaders deny what is going on? So naive!"

    27. Re:Insanity by tburkhol · · Score: 1

      Can you describe "technically legal but shady as fuck" "rigging"?

      Armed, private-citizen "poll watchers" are legal in many states. Even unarmed, but organized gangs of "poll watchers" can be intimidating without being illegal. To my knowledge, only one candidate has claimed that voter fraud is rampant or encouraged "poll watchers."

      If you're asking about the acts of DNC during the primaries, the most commonly cited examples are the nominally impartial DNC discussing ways to discredit Sanders' religion, and their decision to limit debates to the number proposed by the Clinton camp. The former happened, and its bad behavior, but it's not likely to have swayed the outcome. The latter happened, but who cares?

    28. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Context doesn't matter to lunatics. Someone could say "He shoved me and called me a tranny", and they would say "This straight white cis-male scum said the t-slur".

    29. Re:Insanity by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Well considering we have commissioner of the board of elections in NYC admitting to voter fraud on hidden cam and even the Washington Times saying vote fraud is all too real maybe he is onto something?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    30. Re:Insanity by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Elections don't win themselves!

      This one does.

      http://projects.fivethirtyeigh...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    31. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because you most likely operate in an echo chamber, where you see nothing but what you are meant to see about the "candidate" you "support".

    32. Re: Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I'm an Independent and I'm going to vote for anyone without a D or an R next to their names this election. That being said I think that Trump is, in fact, a Deplorable. I would vote for Clinton merely to keep Trump out of office if I didn't think that he would lose already. He would be America's Mussolini.

    33. Re:Insanity by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Can you describe "technically legal but shady as fuck" "rigging"?

      How about CNN giving Hillary the debate questions ahead of time?

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    34. Re:Insanity by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Which is shady, but how exactly does that constitute electoral fraud?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    35. Re:Insanity by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      Didn't the guy you were talking to say "rigging" isn't necessarily "electoral fraud?"

      The definition of rigged in this context is "To manipulate dishonestly for personal gain." Doesn't a debate where one side gets the questions ahead of time count as manipulated, dishonestly, and for personal gain? How about the DNC hiring thugs and the mentally ill to pose as Bernie supporters and start fights with Trump supporters at his Chicago rally, dishonestly manipulating the media narrative and public opinion of both campaigns? That one had me fooled. I honestly thought it was Bernie fans starting that shit, but it was really Hillary's thugs. What about the New York DNC guy admitting they bus people around to different precincts to vote multiple times? Is that rigging?

      What would somebody have to do, in your mind, for an electoral process to be rigged?

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    36. Re:Insanity by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      The phrase "You have no proof" (wanting court legal cases) of voter fraud, before they will believe it happens. It doesn't matter how many times Democrats are caught committing fraud, it is never the Democrat Party. Its just that the Democrat Party ignores these offenses, while encouraging them by excusing those that are caught.

      It is why "Trump incites violence" and they excuse (No evidence) violence against Trump HQ.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    37. Re: Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, I like "hate-filled tirades"! Is that something like all the articles published about a guy who dared to wear a shirt his girlfriend made for him to the comet-landing party?

    38. Re:Insanity by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

      Because you most likely operate in an echo chamber, where you see nothing but what you are meant to see about the "candidate" you "support".

      Then help us escape the echo chamber. Give us a link. Where's the evidence that "Hillary's campaign that started all that election rigging crap", as the earlier poster claims?

      --
      Chelloveck
      I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    39. Re:Insanity by s.petry · · Score: 1

      I don't know anything about a frog Icon, but I know a few people labelled as alt-right. It appears that there is an intentionally attempt to label them as bigots, and their speech as a hate crime. The frog character being maligned is simply a means to that end.

      So I go back to my original post and ask again, who are they claiming is committing hate speech and what is their proof? Who is the bigot when someone attempts to silence opinions they dislike? Sorry, but a frog cartoon won't take on the meaning of a swastika without a whole lot of people being killed carrying that slogan.

      The idea that speech hurts people is disingenuous and dangerous. There are times when calling someone a moron is a completely rational response.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    40. Re:Insanity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're missing the point. There's no such thing as 'hate speech'. It is a fantasy made up by spineless morons.

    41. Re:Insanity by shilly · · Score: 1

      All very fascinating, but what the fuck does that have to do with what I was responding to?

      The poster said: Trump hasn't alleged X
      I reply: Yes he has
      You say: Aha! He was right to allege X

  5. Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It wasn't even racists or alt-right who did that. It was 4chan users who thought it was funny and wanted to make pepe toxic when they saw Miley Cyrus using it.

    1. Re:Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Milo, is that you?

    2. Re:Stupid by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      Do you have some archive links as proof? be cooler if 4channers[1] did it rather than twitter users: http://dailycaller.com/2016/09...

      [1] hey mook sometimes used that term!

    3. Re: Stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly! +1

      It's the same with most of these harassment by internet cases too. Like Brianna Wu and the like. Most of them don't hate women, but are doing it because it gets a reaction. And ofc Brianna Wu and her buddies are encouraging it, because they reap the benefits of it (publicity, speaking fees, a pulpit for their ideas, and so on)

  6. Why not just address the problem? Nazi trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't matter what symbol they pick, THEY ARE THE PROBLEM. Not the frog.

  7. Sellout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Some quotes from a NYMag article, "What Happens When Hillary Clinton Calls Your Cartoon Frog Racist" just over a month ago:

    Neither the elder or the younger Trump actually crafted the Pepe images they posted — credit for that goes to the hateful meme factories of the so-called alt-right. Indeed, Pepe has become something of a mascot for them. But Pepe predates their rise to national prominence, and his creator, cartoonist Matt Furie, could not be less connected to their movement. He’s been drawing Pepe on and off as part of a surreal comic strip called Boy’s Club since 2005, and he doesn’t seem to care at all about the ways the character has been used to create havoc online. “Politics are for dorks,” he tells me in an email

    Trump’s retweeting of a Pepe meme seemed like a nonevent to him. “I’m sure it was just a young Republican dude posting it to appeal to smug Trumpies,” he says. “It was just as amusing as anything else stupid on the internet.” When I ask him if any use of Pepe has shocked or disgusted him, he replies, “Not really — there is all kinds of idiotic stuff on the internet. I usually just check my email or go on Facebook or something.”

    Pepe is everything and nothing,” Furie says. “He is stupid and amazing at the same time — kinda like life. Pepe is life.”

    One thing he clearly expresses is how little he’s been moved by Pepe’s most notable moments of fame. I ask how it felt when Perry and Minaj posted Pepe memes and all he says is, “I don’t care.” I bring up last year’s bizarre “Rare Pepe” craze, in which 4chan users semi-seriously attempted to counteract mainstream appropriation of Pepe by flooding the board with unique versions of him; he muses, “I just sit back, relax and let the Pepes fall where they land, my friend!

    He doesn’t seem that interested in discussing the other characters and comics, either. “They are what they are: just weird comics about a bunch of weird fraggles hanging out in mysterious nothingness,” he says. I ask him if he sees any sadness in the quartet’s gross lives and his reply is blunt: “No, they are just dumb cartoons.”

    But ultimately, it doesn’t seem like Furie loses much sleep over questions about Pepe’s significance or what the frog means for him as an artist. Or, at least, that’s the image he wants to project. “I love to Google my own name,” he says. “I’m much more concerned about ‘Matt Furie.’ I’ll never be as popular as the frog, but I’m alive: something he can never be.”

    So he went from a laissez-faire attitude about Pepe to battling the alt-right and, by extension, the Literal Hitler Candidate, Donald Trump. He's either been offered a shitload of money and book deals, or his life was threatened.

    1. Re:Sellout? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Or maybe it's just that the water-off-a-duck's-back thing got old and he decided that enough was enough?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    2. Re:Sellout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In one month? And only after the ADL proclaimed it a hate symbol? Yeah, right.

    3. Re:Sellout? by poity · · Score: 1

      No. It's much simpler. You don't pay a price, whether professionally or in terms of social capital, when voicing your support for Clinton. You pay a tremendous price when voicing your support for Trump. There are also costs, though comparatively less, to adamantly staying neutral while the media speculates over your political beliefs. Therefore, publicly coming out as pro-Clinton is the safest choice, and all the better if you really do support Clinton.

      --
      your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
    4. Re:Sellout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "There are also costs, though comparatively less, to adamantly staying neutral while the media speculates over your political beliefs. Therefore, publicly coming out as pro-Clinton is the safest choice, and all the better if you really do support Clinton"

      That's what I meant to imply when I said his "life was threatened", even though I clumsily phrased it as if someone threatened to kill him which I don't believed happened.. Basically, I think he's going to be rewarded and avoid having his career and reputation jeopardized.

    5. Re:Sellout? by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      He's either been offered a shitload of money and book deals, or his life was threatened.

      You forgot that he might have been abducted by alien ant people and his cloned body sent back with an anti-matter brain capable of destroying the universe.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    6. Re:Sellout? by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >You don't pay a price, whether professionally or in terms of social capital, when voicing your support for Clinton
      Because there isn't a very real risk that Clinton would start a nuclear third world war. At least, no bigger than any of the other people who have run for president since the bomb was invented, while Trump's approach would fucking guarantee one. OF COURSE the backlash is worse when the candidate you support represents a real and present danger to the entire fucking world, and has promoted policies that are literally direct translations of Hitler's speeches ! We've seen what happens when you demand that some group must 'all be registered in a database so we can track them'.

      Oh and Hillary voters haven't once called to remove the right to vote from white males. Meanwhile #repealthe19th was the top-trending hashtag on twitter for days.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    7. Re:Sellout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes of course. It's one thing to affect being nonchalant and apolitical. You can't uphold that when people call your frog a nazi, unless you're so suicidal that you really don't care about anything.

    8. Re:Sellout? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no chance? shes been calling out the russians for months now, If i were russian id be pretty ticked

    9. Re:Sellout? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      Because there isn't a very real risk that Clinton would start a nuclear third world war.

      You're not paying attention then. There is a lot of talk about real war happening now, by both Russia (nuclear power) and North Korea (Nuclear Power). And Clinton is inexorably tied to both with her four years of SoS and the complete ineptitude of the "Obama Doctrine" (whatever that is).

      I rather doubt you'll believe me, but please do a google new search for "war, north koread south korea", and see "brink of war" declaration, and "war russia threatens syria".

      You'd be hard pressed to figure out how Trump is involved in either. But a typical leftwingers like yourself has long used "nuclear war" option to scare people into voting for disgusting people like Hillary. Again, I don't think you'll believe me, and I doubt you'll actually admit that the threat of war (nuclear or otherwise) is all on Obama and Clinton at this point. We don't need four more years of her Failed policies.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  8. Lmfao. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's like someone looked at 4chan, saw Pepe and "praise kek!" everywhere, and thought we all *actually* looked up to a fucking cartoon frog from a web comic about pissing with your pants at your ankles as a god damned spiritual icon. The CTR shills infiltrating reddit/4chan have even been instructed to create racist Pepe memes to discredit him. (https://archive.is/nvFro) It's like if Romney had started a war with Advice Dog.

    Anyway, there's actually been a dearth of Pepe on r/The_Donald recently, simply because there's too much real news happening to need to waste time on frivolities like spamming Pepe to trigger shills.

    (btw, go GIS 'Pepe frog nazi' and 'Twilight Sparkle nazi' and tell me which one is the REAL white supremacist icon...)

  9. Effect by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just rename it Streisand Frog

  10. Confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm confused why everyone is losing their mind over a crappy cartoon in the first place. Guess it beats the days where people had to worry about war, disease, starvation, oppression, and hopelessness. Good thing we solved all those problems at least.

    1. Re:Confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously. The Nazis can fuck off and die, but who cares if they use a cartoon frog. He's not real, folks. His feelings won't be hurt.

    2. Re:Confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's been a *chan meme for a long time, and it spread all over the chans on an international scale. Memes get parodied, exploited, expanded, and remixed hundreds of times. Remember when Rage Comics started getting popular?

    3. Re:Confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Feels bad, man.

  11. The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hate symbols can be used to intimidate people and hurt them. But what's really wrong isn't the symbol itself per se, but the threat communicated by it. You've likely often heard some mishmash about not tolerating intolerance, often as a self-serving justification, but I doubt many people excusing themselves with it have even read anything by Karl Popper, so let's just quote him, shall we? I mean, he is the source of that particular idea, so maybe he knows a thing or two:

    But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols."

    (emphasis added)

    Thus we have self-appointed defenders of tolerance pulling this crap https://www.youtube.com/watch?... when the intolerance he was trying to defend us from was the use of violence to shut down ideas, which is a sad mockery of the ideals he promoted.

    1. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hate symbols can be used to intimidate people and hurt them.

      So can rocks and sticks. And pretty much anything really. Ban everything!

    2. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sticks and stones can break my bones, and words can cause permanent neuroendocrine damage.

    3. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      Sticks and stones: no need to make those illegal.

      Sticks and stones being wielded by people in order to assault and injure? That act is illegal. Not the sticks and stones themselves, but the act of wielding them in such a way.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    4. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      Sticks and stones being wielded by people in order to assault and injure? That act is illegal. Not the sticks and stones themselves, but the act of wielding them in such a way.

      If ignoring the sticks and stones could prevent injury, it wouldn't be necessary to do anything about them.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    5. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Erm... you need to actually read the thing you quoted. It doesn't say what you think it says.
      Popper WAS defending things like hate speech laws - on the BASIS that hate movements may respond to rational argument with violence. But while he certainly opposed violent suppression of argument - that was not what the paper or even that paragraph was about.

      Popper correctly ascertained that free speech (and all other freedoms) can only be defended if it's somewhat limited - if those who would deny others freedom entirely are prevented, or at least limited, in their ability to push that idea. Because, if you try to answer *their* bad speech with good speech they usually answer you with guns. The only answer then is to bring your own gun - and it's better then if those guns are the government's guns because street-warfare tends to be bad for everybody.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    6. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >Sticks and stones being wielded by people in order to assault and injure? That act is illegal. Not the sticks and stones themselves, but the act of wielding them in such a way

      As is threatening to do so. And the same line works quite well for words actually.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    7. Re: The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got PTSD from Twitter. We get it. You're a sensitive fucking moron.

    8. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You heard, him, get with the times.

      Words hurt. Ban those hurty words. Imprison the thought criminals.

      We used to teach kids "sticks and stone may break my bones but words can never hurt me." Now, thirty years on we teach them to demand safe spaces and have tantrums. It's modern, you see.

    9. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Z80a · · Score: 1

      If a stone hit your head hard enough, i'm pretty sure it can cause permanent neuroendocrine damage several times worse than a picture of a nazi frog.

    10. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Atrox+Canis · · Score: 1

      There is no level where hate speech does NOT fall firmly OUTSIDE the harm principle - so literally the most libertarian interpretation of freedom short of "might makes right" is perfectly compatible with anti-hate-speech laws. It's founders wouldn't have said so - but they didn't have access to the knowledge we now do. A philosophy that is not willing to update based on new scientific knowledge is not a philosophy - it's a dangerous cult.

      How about this... I support and defend your right to call me anything you damn well please. Full Stop

      Can you match that?

      --
      Charter Member of The Committee Group For The Elimination And Eradication Of Repetitive Redundancy
    11. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 0

      >How about this... I support and defend your right to call me anything you damn well please. Full Stop

      That argument makes as much sense as Mike Tyson saying "I support the right to assault people because I can take a punch".
      Just because YOU are not (or at least, believe [almost certainly incorrectly] that you are not) vulnerable to physical harm from words - does not mean nobody is.

      >Can you match that?

      How about this. You refrain from calling vulnerable people things that could harm or even kill them -and I'll refrain from harming or killing you.

      All people are not equally safe from all things -that should be fucking obvious. But this is typical of rightwingers - nothing matters until it affects you. Dick Cheney didn't support gay marriage until his daughter turned out to be a lesbian. Every republican responding to Trump's bragging about sexual assault has framed their response in terms 'I have a wife/daughters/mother'. A complete failure to see that something can be bad unless it's bad for yourself or somebody you personally care about. The idea that sexual assault is bad because women are PEOPLE and men don't have the right to control their bodies and that this includes all women - even complete strangers - just doesn't seem to register with them.
      I can consider the good or evil of something based on how it affects people other than myself, and I can contemplate how something that would have no impact on me could be deadly to another person. The day there is hate-speech against white males that has actual TEETH, that can actually harm us - that's when your attitude will change. I don't need it to happen to me before I know it's bad - I just need to see it happen to other people.

      I have no food allergies - but I'm smart enough to support labelling laws so that people who do don't get killed by eating something nobody could have guessed contains an allergen. It may be harmless to me, but it's not harmless to them - and the law must protect everybody. We cannot make the law on only things that harm the best protected among us.

      Considering that transgender kids have a suicide rate 4 times the national average which has been conclusively proven to be driven ENTIRELY by the way society treats them (which is primarily manifested in words) - if you call somebody a 'tranny' you are, as far as I'm concerned with the best science on my side, engaging in an act of attempted murder - and I will quite happily punch you in the mouth until you stop. That's saying something coming from a pacifist. I abhor violence and I don't believe there is any such thing as a justified first strike - but that would not be a first strike, that would be defending somebody from a sustained and deadly attacker.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    12. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Because, if you try to answer *their* bad speech with good speech they usually answer you with guns.

      You're undoing your own point at this point: we recognize the bad stuff because they resort to violence. This can be based on evidence. For example, by all means, suppress the KKK types who both advocate and commit violence.

      And certainly we can do the same for those who are like that in politics. However, did you know that the protests--some of which were blamed on Bernie's supporters--were in fact arranged by Hillary? Here's a video of them admitting that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=2&v=5IuJGHuIkzY

      Those are just actors or something, right? Must be fake... but oh, here's a video of the lady on there at the AZ protests, blocking the road--just go to 17:35 or so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uMzYaO2syE

      Finally, here's the link to the FEC records of her being paid by the Democrats: https://beta.fec.gov/data/disbursements/?two_year_transaction_period=2016&recipient_name=ZULEMA+RODRIGUEZ&min_date=01%2F01%2F2015&max_date=12%2F31%2F2016

      So... she really was on Hillary's payroll. They paid her to be in AZ, as well as for either a really cheap phone bill or a burner phone, at the time of the protests. And she did, in fact, block the road as can be seen on camera.

    13. Re: The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shut up and pour my latte, it's all your social studies degree is good for, you fucking freak.

    14. Re: The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Butthurt are we? Grow up idiot

    15. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      Sticks and stones can break my bones, and words can cause permanent neuroendocrine damage.

      We're headed towards that -- where your thoughts become merely physical processes in your brain, and this becomes physical evidence -- bye bye Fifth Amendment.

      The only question is whether the 5th will disappear before the 1st as people argue the bad feelings your words cause can be traced to the same physical brain processes, and therefore banned.

      Don't laugh.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    16. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "vulnerable to physical harm from words"

      Anybody that lets some vocalization physically hurt them is an utter moron, full stop. If a word hurts you, you have SERIOUS MENTAL DEFICIENCIES.

      "if you call somebody a 'tranny' you are, as far as I'm concerned with the best science on my side, engaging in an act of attempted murder"

      Unlike your ugly ass, I've worked in porno. Most trannies have a much more solid head on their shoulders than you or your shitty 'best science' (almost guaranteed to be bullshit) think, and would laugh at your 'murder' connection almost outright.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    17. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      Because, if you try to answer *their* bad speech with good speech they usually answer you with guns. The only answer then is to bring your own gun - and it's better then if those guns are the government's guns because street-warfare tends to be bad for everybody.

      Which we already do. Last I checked, it's still illegal to just shoot people because they say things you don't like. There's still no justification for hate speech laws.

    18. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      If you worked in legal porn, then the transgender people you met were adults - thus that would make them the ones who got through the extremely high mortality adolescence that transgender people experience. They would therefore, logically, be the LEAST representative sample you could possibly find.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    19. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 0

      No. What is utterly unjustifiable is the idea that anybody should ever be subjected to hate speech. It serves no useful purpose, it does not advance democracy, it makes society less free over-all and it kills people.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    20. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      What is utterly unjustifiable is the idea that anybody should ever be subjected to hate speech.

      You aren't. Don't like it? Then don't listen. It's time to grow up and recognize that people are routinely going to say things you don't like.

      It serves no useful purpose, it does not advance democracy, it makes society less free over-all and it kills people.

      Actually, you are wrong on two counts. First, it does make people more free because they are free to say what they think. Second, it doesn't kill people contrary to your assertion.

    21. Re: The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa whoa whoa. The word butthurt is homophobic, you racist Nazi. I can't wait until your words are illegal.

    22. Re: The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called free speech, you nig. See? You're fine. Xo.

    23. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      If you still believe that ignoring hate speech can prevent injury then you are about 30 years behind the scientific facts.

      In order to hurt me with words, I would have to value one's opinion.

      Even if you ignore that words themselves CAN do permanent, real, physical harm to a person - you still run into the problem that advocating violence (which is what most hate speech is under) will cause OTHERS to wield sticks and stones.

      There is a clear line. Between simple speech and advocacy or inducement.

      Saying "#Person is a piece of shit #Slur and I hope he dies!" is far different than saying "#Person is a piece of shit #Slur and one of us should pick up a #Weapon and blow his fucking brains out!"

      You can choose to allow the former to cause you pain.

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    24. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >You aren't. Don't like it? Then don't listen. It's time to grow up and recognize that people are routinely going to say things you don't like.

      No hate speech law ever written has excluded "things somebody doesn't like". They only exclude "hings that are likely to lead to people getting murdered". With what we now know about neuroscience - like that a persistent pattern of abusive words can cause permanent, physical brain damage (which is physical harm in case you didn't know)- it ought to be expanded to cover words commonly used in such patterns.
      Since these two categories however, comprise pretty much the exact same words, you won't even notice the expansion.

      >First, it does make people more free because they are free to say what they think
      I said it makes society less free over-all - that statement does not even slightly contradict it. Very frequently society gets more free on average if we reduce the liberty of some individuals. Because we don't all have equal power or equal means to excercise our rights, restricting some actions for a few can actually make the rest of society more free. If we tell employers they aren't allowed to refuse to hire people for forming a union - then individuals with little negotiating power have the option to combine their negotiating power and form a union. An action that reduced the liberty of a small number (the employers) have made a large number (the workers) more free by allowing them to do something they could not previously do.

      > Second, it doesn't kill people contrary to your assertion.
      And you are just plain wrong about this. But then, you always are in every post you've ever put here - facts have no influence on your thinking and you believe whatever you make up to be the same as facts.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    25. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >In order to hurt me with words, I would have to value one's opinion.
      Hate speech is never ONE.

      >There is a clear line. Between simple speech and advocacy or inducement.
      And some words are ALWAYS advocacy, inducement and incitement - regardless of whether you intend them that way (which is impossible to test by the way so it's safe to assume NOBODY intends them any OTHER way). We call those words 'hate speech'.

      >Saying "#Person is a piece of shit #Slur and I hope he dies!" is far different than saying "#Person is a piece of shit #Slur and one of us should pick up a #Weapon and blow his fucking brains out!"

      No it's not, because everbody KNOWS the first one really means the second one. The term for that is 'dog whistles' - when you say words that incite violence and disguise it *just enough* that you'll be hard to convict in a court while making damn sure nobody is mistaken about what you meant.

      >You can choose to allow the former to cause you pain.
      When you're hearing that a thousand times a week - it's not really a choice anymore. Besides which - pain is not the issue, actual neural scarring is. Which has been proven to be a potential consequence from a pattern of abusive words. Last I checked - giving somebody brain damage was a clear-cut case of 'causing physical harm'.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    26. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      No hate speech law ever written has excluded "things somebody doesn't like". They only exclude "hings that are likely to lead to people getting murdered".

      The obvious rebuttal is all hate speech law is precisely about excluding speech that one doesn't like. And once again, one can't be murdered with speech.

      With what we now know about neuroscience - like that a persistent pattern of abusive words can cause permanent, physical brain damage (which is physical harm in case you didn't know)- it ought to be expanded to cover words commonly used in such patterns. Since these two categories however, comprise pretty much the exact same words, you won't even notice the expansion.

      A persistent pattern of abusive words is harassment or even torture which can be made illegal. Or when it's not these things, you can just choose not to listen and thus, choose not to inflict this alleged brain damage on yourself.

      I said it makes society less free over-all - that statement does not even slightly contradict it. Very frequently society gets more free on average if we reduce the liberty of some individuals. Because we don't all have equal power or equal means to excercise our rights, restricting some actions for a few can actually make the rest of society more free. If we tell employers they aren't allowed to refuse to hire people for forming a union - then individuals with little negotiating power have the option to combine their negotiating power and form a union. An action that reduced the liberty of a small number (the employers) have made a large number (the workers) more free by allowing them to do something they could not previously do.

      I notice you don't support your claim even a little with this verbiage. The obvious rebuttal is the absence of hate speech laws means we're more free to say whatever we want. You mention nothing that would support your assertion that any freedom is lost with that extra freedom gained.

      And you are just plain wrong about this. But then, you always are in every post you've ever put here - facts have no influence on your thinking and you believe whatever you make up to be the same as facts.

      And now we descend into complete bullshit with yet again absolutely no evidence to support your position. Just the usual effeminate bleat that I have to be plain wrong about this somehow.

      In the real world, words don't kill people, murderers with weapons kill people whether it be Nazi Sturmabteilung brutally killing Jews in the streets or paramilitaries chopping down innocent Rwandans with machetes in churches. You will notice in these two cases that society had degenerated to the point where murder wasn't illegal. That didn't happen because people said naughty things. That happened because the rule of law falls apart. When you don't have rule of law, hate speech is far from the top of the list of your worries.

      Just keep murder illegal and enforce those laws and you eliminate the primary supposed drawback of hate speech.

    27. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      . You refrain from calling vulnerable people things that could harm or even kill them

      Please give me a single example of me calling someone something, causing physical harm. If you can.

      Emory University students "harmed" by chalk marks on the sidewalk might work. But I am unaware of any actual "harm" other than to precious snowflakes who want to live in a protected bubble from anything that might be "different". Being a "conservative" is the new "fag" epithet. You are just too damn stupid to realize it.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    28. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why don't we ban injuries?

    29. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >Please give me a single example of me calling someone something, causing physical harm. If you can.

      Ever called somebody a racial slur ? Or a slur for their sexual orientation ? If you have - then you DID cause actual, physical harm. Brain damage to be exact - we have incontrovertiable physical proof of that. Same goes for quite a few others. So I don't know if you've personally done that, but everybody who does HAS caused actual physical harm. No exceptions.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    30. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      the extremely high mortality adolescence that transgender people experience

      So now, it's we need to ban bad words among adults because schools can't be bothered to do anything about extreme bullying. As I noted earlier, when the rule of law is abandoned, you have worse problems than people saying bad things.

    31. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      which is impossible to test by the way so it's safe to assume NOBODY intends them any OTHER way

      Anything impossible to test is something which is impossible for me to care about. The more you talk, silentcoder, the more you demonstrate that you neither understand your supposed hate speech or have anything relevant to say about it.

      No it's not, because everbody KNOWS the first one really means the second one. The term for that is 'dog whistles' - when you say words that incite violence and disguise it *just enough* that you'll be hard to convict in a court while making damn sure nobody is mistaken about what you meant.

      Hard to convict is not the same as impossible. I don't want it to be possible to convict someone for a dog whistle that wasn't actually there due to hate speech laws.

    32. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Lord+Kano · · Score: 1

      No it's not, because everbody KNOWS the first one really means the second one.

      No, everyone doesn't know that because it's not true.

      The term for that is 'dog whistles' - when you say words that incite violence and disguise it *just enough* that you'll be hard to convict in a court while making damn sure nobody is mistaken about what you meant.

      Most of us understand what dog whistles are and people of all political persuasions make use of them. If the words do not directly convey the message, you're talking about Thought Crime. I'm not willing to go down that road and fortunately, I still have the right to vote based on that position.

      Besides which - pain is not the issue, actual neural scarring is. Which has been proven to be a potential consequence from a pattern of abusive words.

      Citation Needed

      LK

      --
      "Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
    33. Re: The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Honestly, I was all for everything you were saying until you accused my use of a word, any word really, as attempted murder. Followed by threats of assault. Holy shit that crosses a line.

      Really, hearing that calling someone a name will cause suicide, that it's attempted murder? Fine, then I'm a murderer. Your uncalled-for escalation to threatening assault justifies it. Kill yourself, whatever pathetic excuse for a person you are, do it. Because I don't want to have to live in a world where I need to fear being physically attacked for saying the wrong word. How do I know that you won't strike me because I said "flamboyant," with no intention besides to flatter? Or "pretty," "handsome," "strong," "stylish...?"
      Fuck you, please kill yourself, and make the world safer for the rest of us, those who respect other's right to speak freely.

    34. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Here's just one: http://med.miami.edu/news/chan...

      What ? You think it's possible to say something like that and NOT affect children ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    35. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      I don't give a fuck what you want. I care what makes the most people, the most free. If that means you specifically have to be slightly less free so that on average more people have more freedom - that's a tradeoff every non-asshole would make.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    36. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      Schools and bullying are the least of the problem. An entire society full of people constantly diminishing them, insulting them, denying their humanity, calling them an abomination - that's the problem. Schools are a tiny part of it.

      And do you think that teenagers don't hear what adults say among each other ? Do you think they do not know when those things apply to them ? Do you think they don't read the news ? They don't know about the state governments that are making laws targetting them ?

      Do you think verbal abuse is not violence ? Go speak to any survivor of domestic abuse - I've yet to meet one who didn't consider the verbal and emotional abuse the worst part. When did it become a matter of freedom to protect your right to be violent ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    37. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      Schools and bullying are the least of the problem. An entire society full of people constantly diminishing them, insulting them, denying their humanity, calling them an abomination - that's the problem. Schools are a tiny part of it.

      Even if we suppose that's true, we're just setting up trangenders as scapegoats for terrible laws that shouldn't exist. You're not making it even a bit better.

      And do you think that teenagers don't hear what adults say among each other ? Do you think they do not know when those things apply to them ? Do you think they don't read the news ? They don't know about the state governments that are making laws targetting them ?

      I think the real question here is do you think? None of that is made better with hate speech laws. There are consequences to bad law.

      Do you think verbal abuse is not violence ? Go speak to any survivor of domestic abuse - I've yet to meet one who didn't consider the verbal and emotional abuse the worst part. When did it become a matter of freedom to protect your right to be violent ?

      We'll see if you start thinking first before continuing this discussion. Abuse is not speech.

    38. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      I care what makes the most people, the most free.

      Exactly. Start by changing your mind. I can't do that from over here. You got to do it yourself.

      If that means you specifically have to be slightly less free so that on average more people have more freedom - that's a tradeoff every non-asshole would make.

      Don't be stupid. Hate speech laws aren't about prohibiting khallow to say naughty things, it's about prohibiting anyone to say naughty things. It's straightforward restricting the free speech of everyone.

      And that's even before you consider the considerable abuses that the state can exploit with hate speech laws by making disagreement hate speech and hence, illegal. Better to not even give them the opportunity.

      This is not hypothetical. We already have examples of the abuses inherent in hate speech laws in Canada and Europe. Sure, much of it is ugly people saying ugly things. But so what? They have as much a right to say what they think as you do.

    39. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >Even if we suppose that's true, we're just setting up trangenders as scapegoats for terrible laws that shouldn't exist. You're not making it even a bit better.

      How the hell did you come up with that one ? You think saying "these laws harm innocent people' somehow puts the blame on the innocent people ? Do you think that the abolitionist movement was making black people a scapegoat for slavery too ?

      >I think the real question here is do you think? None of that is made better with hate speech laws.
      It absolutely is - because firstly, such laws reduce the incidence of these events. Secondly - it sends a clear message that society does not approve of this, that the people saying these things are not representative. That may be an even more beneficial effect.

      >There are consequences to bad law.
      You have not actually shown any evidence whatsoever that hate speech laws are 'bad law'. They tend to be very narrowly defined, and even more narrowly read by courts. Thus far their history really does not back up your claim - not in the US or anywhere else. As the UK has proven - you're more likely to get bad laws out of overly broad libel laws than hate speech laws - and the US does have libel law.

      >We'll see if you start thinking first before continuing this discussion. Abuse is not speech.
      It very often is. Emotional abuse consists entirely of speech. But if you think abuse is NOT speech - then neither is hate-speech. No hate speech law yet has outlawed anything that isn't abusive.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    40. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >Don't be stupid. Hate speech laws aren't about prohibiting khallow to say naughty things, it's about prohibiting anyone to say naughty things. It's straightforward restricting the free speech of everyone.

      Bullshit. Firstly 'naughty' is a seriously excessive euphemism - which is doubly dishonest as it makes it sound as if hate-speech laws are far more broad than they ever actually are. Secondly - in a democracy hate speech laws protect the vulnerable from abuse by the powerful. That increases the freedom of the vulnerable. Objectively and measurably this increase in their freedom increases the total average freedom of society more than the decrease in the freedom of the powerful can reduce it. Thirdly while in theory democracy contains protections against dictatorship-of-the-majority in practise no hate-speech law has ever been poltiically possible to pass until a significant majority of the population rejected the discrimination against the group that was being targetted. This automatically means that any hate speech law only ever has an impact on a very small number of people - because the majority has already stopped using the word BEFORE the law was ever passed.

      >And that's even before you consider the considerable abuses that the state can exploit with hate speech laws by making disagreement hate speech and hence, illegal.
      Since that isn't a valid example of hate speech - you will have no shortage of liberals working as your allies to overthrow such laws if they get passed. We LOVE forcing the repeal of unjust laws. If we'll do it for unregarded minorities - what makes you think we would NOT do it for ourselves ?

      >We already have examples of the abuses inherent in hate speech laws in Canada and Europe
      Not that this has stopped the rise of Marine Le Penn - it clearly has zero impact on the actual politics. But even so - in a democracy there are ways to get rid of bad laws or get them ammended to make them better. That a law could potentially be abused is not and is never an argument against having it because ALL laws can be abused. You would have no laws whatsoever. The argument you need to prove (and haven't and cannot) is that the law has no benefits for society AND can ONLY be used in an abusive manner. Otherwise the right approach is to change the law and improve it, not to get rid of it. Slavery met those criteria. Hate speech does not come close.

      >They have as much a right to say what they think as you do.
      That's not a given. Your right to do anything ends where my rights begin. That includes your right to say things - at the point where they intrude on my rights, they stop being your right.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    41. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Firstly 'naughty' is a seriously excessive euphemism - which is doubly dishonest as it makes it sound as if hate-speech laws are far more broad than they ever actually are.

      It's how serious I believe we all should take your concerns.

      Secondly - in a democracy hate speech laws protect the vulnerable from abuse by the powerful

      That is a new claim. Do you have any evidence that this is true? Or is this just another baseless assertion?

      And that's even before you consider the considerable abuses that the state can exploit with hate speech laws by making disagreement hate speech and hence, illegal.

      Since that isn't a valid example of hate speech - you will have no shortage of liberals working as your allies to overthrow such laws if they get passed. We LOVE forcing the repeal of unjust laws. If we'll do it for unregarded minorities - what makes you think we would NOT do it for ourselves ?

      "Abuse" does indicate it's going to be invalid, right? But given that you're all for banning hate speech in the first place, I don't buy that you have the judgment to repeal even more unjust interpretations of unjust hate speech laws. You are already failing on that.

      >We already have examples of the abuses inherent in hate speech laws in Canada and Europe

      Not that this has stopped the rise of Marine Le Penn - it clearly has zero impact on the actual politics.

      To the contrary, I think hate speech laws have actually strengthened her. Standing up to a corrupt, incompetent bureaucracy on the matter of free speech, is an easy win. But I guess you never thought about the consequences of badly enforced hate speech law, did you?

      But even so - in a democracy there are ways to get rid of bad laws or get them ammended to make them better. That a law could potentially be abused is not and is never an argument against having it because ALL laws can be abused. You would have no laws whatsoever. The argument you need to prove (and haven't and cannot) is that the law has no benefits for society AND can ONLY be used in an abusive manner. Otherwise the right approach is to change the law and improve it, not to get rid of it. Slavery met those criteria. Hate speech does not come close.

      The easiest way to get rid of bad law is to never embrace it in the first place.There's no benefits to society, unless of course, you think the free speech rights of the public have't been trampled enough or far right nationalists like Le Pen don't get enough free publicity.

      They have as much a right to say what they think as you do.

      That's not a given. Your right to do anything ends where my rights begin. That includes your right to say things - at the point where they intrude on my rights, they stop being your right.

      You have yet to show a right of your violated by so called hate speech. Sorry, that's the way it is.

    42. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      How the hell did you come up with that one ? You think saying "these laws harm innocent people' somehow puts the blame on the innocent people ?

      It's damn obvious. The people committing the alleged hate speech aren't going to blame themselves clearly. And here's some hapless person that they've always hated and supposedly about whom they can no longer say naughty things. Use that gray matter to think about it a little bit and ask yourself who's going to get blamed and just how faithfully are the haters going to follow the laws.

      Do you think that the abolitionist movement was making black people a scapegoat for slavery too ?

      Slavery was a real harm. And guess what? A fair number of blacks probably did suffer because there were abolitionists out there. For example:

      During the mid-19th century, some states outlawed the education of slaves. In 1841, Virginia punished violations of this law by 20 lashes to the slave and a $100 fine to the teacher, and North Carolina by 39 lashes to the slave and a $250 fine to the teacher

      This was in large part to prevent slaves from gaining power or escaping. Abolitionists would have had a hand in both enabling the escape of slaves and in educating former slaves.

      It absolutely is - because firstly, such laws reduce the incidence of these events. Secondly - it sends a clear message that society does not approve of this, that the people saying these things are not representative. That may be an even more beneficial effect.

      Just like it did in the Wiemar Republic? Hitler was jailed for the terrible things he said and did. That didn't stop him from gaining power. Also, you can send clear messages without passing terrible laws. You're doing it right now, for example.

      You have not actually shown any evidence whatsoever that hate speech laws are 'bad law'. They tend to be very narrowly defined, and even more narrowly read by courts. Thus far their history really does not back up your claim - not in the US or anywhere else. As the UK has proven - you're more likely to get bad laws out of overly broad libel laws than he speech laws - and the US does have libel law.

      Bullshit. Canada has run wild with their version. And of course, there's the French example which as you noted has been used to ineffectually harass National Front leader Marine Le Pen.

      You continue to blow off the obvious problem with hate speech law. It's an unwarranted imposition on everyone's freedom of speech for no gain. It does nothing to halt real illegal activity.

      Hate doesn't stop just because you throw arbitrary and capricious rules on speech down - especially when those rules become unenforceable due to widespread disobedience and martyrdom which is always a danger with this stuff. But I suppose it is better for the law breakers to have free speech than those who obey the laws, eh?

      It very often is. Emotional abuse consists entirely of speech. But if you think abuse is NOT speech - then neither is hate-speech. No hate speech law yet has outlawed anything that isn't abusive.

      Abuse is a pattern of harassment which can include speech, but it is not speech. Hate speech explicitly includes the word "speech". And of course, we already have laws against harassment, extortion, threatening behavior, vandalism, etc. There is nothing here for "hate speech" to cover which is not already covered by civil and criminal law.

      Here's an Canadian example which I think illustrates my point. There are three quotes in turn from a local Canadian politician, David Ahenakew. The first is part of a speech:

      The Germans used to tell me, and I got to know them well because I played soccer a

    43. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      citation needed

    44. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      You really are immune to facts. You base your entire worldview on complete fantasies. Lets just dismantle one as an example.

      >Just like it did in the Wiemar Republic? Hitler was jailed for the terrible things he said and did. That didn't stop him from gaining power
      Every single word in that is a flagrant lie.
      1) Nothing Hitler ever said was illegal or contributed to his going to jail. He was sent to jail for high treason after a failed coup attempt in 1921. The biggest mistake the government made was to commute his death penalty to a prison sentence. In fact, he was so uncensored he wrote Mein Kampf WHILE in prison - and publsihed it.

      2) No laws had anything to do with Hitler gaining power. Because his gaining of power was entirely extralegal. Contrary to popular belief the NAZIs NEVER won an election. The best they ever did was 11% in 1929. That did, however, gain them some seats in parliament. The conservative government panicked and hoped to appease and quiet the extreme fringe by giving Hitler the presidency. In theory a good move since the presidency was almost entirely a ceremonial role. The president did get to appoint the chancelor but only if the current one resigned, retired or died. Other than that - almost no real power. Except in 1930 the chancelor DID die and the closest thing to a bad law in the entire story was that the constitution did not prohibited the president from appointing himself chancelor - which is what Hitler did. The next day he brutally killed every left-wing politician in parliament. All the conservatives instantly joined the NAZIs for fear of being executed as well. The first pogrom the NAZIs ever did was to rid Germany of socialist politicians.

      No truth to your claim whatsoever. None of your claims are true. And the Canadian law you are so panicked about isn't even passed yet - and there is nothing abusive about it, just right-wing press idiots like thefederalist making wild claims about how terrible it is with no evidence that it can or will be abused or that there is anything wrong with it.
      By the way - the law in South Africa is stricter -and if anything it suffers because the courts are not willing to enforce it strictly enough. Too many people still get away with illegal racism for example.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    45. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >You have yet to show a right of your violated by so called hate speech. Sorry, that's the way it is.
      I have, the supreme court has, so has the supreme courts and constitutions of the entire free world. The right to safety, to equality before the law, to freedom from violence - those are all violated by hate speech and anything that does not violate those is not hate speech and you pretending it is, is merely an attempt by you to construct a strawman by painting these laws as if they outlaw mere 'naughty' speech.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    46. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      I have, the supreme court has, so has the supreme courts and constitutions of the entire free world. The right to safety, to equality before the law, to freedom from violence - those are all violated by hate speech and anything that does not violate those is not hate speech and you pretending it is, is merely an attempt by you to construct a strawman by painting these laws as if they outlaw mere 'naughty' speech.

      Once again, you haven't shown anything. A right to safety, equality before the law, and freedom from violence are not furthered by hate speech laws. In fact all three are undermined by hate speech laws which allows the the state to make you very unsafe and impose violence on you for what you say (violating the first and third rights you mentioned), and the notoriously biased and arbitrary application of hate speech laws (violating the second right you mentioned).

    47. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >A right to safety, equality before the law, and freedom from violence are not furthered by hate speech laws.
      Yes they are. That is why we make those laws. Your denial of the fact that hate speech
      1) Is violence
      2) reduces equality from the law and
      3) endangers people
      Does not change these facts. They remain true no matter how many times you say they aren't.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    48. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      >Just like it did in the Wiemar Republic? Hitler was jailed for the terrible things he said and did. That didn't stop him from gaining power

      Every single word in that is a flagrant lie.

      Learn grasshopper:

      The horror of the Holocaust serves as the founding narrative legitimizing European integration, and it's the key motivation for hate-speech laws on the continent. The European Union has called on all its member states to pass laws criminalizing Holocaust denial. This European narrative is based on a widely accepted interpretation of what led to the Holocaust. It basically says that anti-Semitic hate speech was the decisive trigger, that evil words beget evil deeds, that if only the Weimar government had clamped down on the National Socialists' verbal persecution of the Jews in the years prior to Hitler's rise to power, then the Holocaust would never have happened. I was confronted with this argument during the Danish cartoon crisis, in 2006. People condemned the cartoons as Islamophobic, and warned that the demonization of Muslims might trigger mass violence. "We know what happened in the twenties and thirties," critical voices argued, referring to the seemingly inevitable link between speech and violence.

      Researching my book, I looked into what actually happened in the Weimar Republic. I found that, contrary to what most people think, Weimar Germany did have hate-speech laws, and they were applied quite frequently. The assertion that Nazi propaganda played a significant role in mobilizing anti-Jewish sentiment is, of course, irrefutable. But to claim that the Holocaust could have been prevented if only anti-Semitic speech and Nazi propaganda had been banned has little basis in reality. Leading Nazis such as Joseph Goebbels, Theodor Fritsch, and Julius Streicher were all prosecuted for anti-Semitic speech. Streicher served two prison sentences. Rather than deterring the Nazis and countering anti-Semitism, the many court cases served as effective public-relations machinery, affording Streicher the kind of attention he would never have found in a climate of a free and open debate. In the years from 1923 to 1933, Der Stürmer [Streicher's newspaper] was either confiscated or editors taken to court on no fewer than thirty-six occasions. The more charges Streicher faced, the greater became the admiration of his supporters. The courts became an important platform for Streicherâ(TM)s campaign against the Jews. In the words of a present-day civil-rights campaigner, pre-Hitler Germany had laws very much like the anti-hate laws of today, and they were enforced with some vigor. As history so painfully testifies, this type of legislation proved ineffectual on the one occasion when there was a real argument for it.

      Reading the history, Hitler's trial for treason was a flagrant failure which devolved right away into a propaganda exercise for Hitler that made him known throughout Germany. The authorities apparently never bothered him about hate speech as far as I can tell and given the consequences of the treason trial, it may have been well that they did not. So in that point, I was incorrect. I had thought that hate speech laws had been applied as part of his trial for treason.

      2) No laws had anything to do with Hitler gaining power. Because his gaining of power was entirely extralegal. Contrary to popular belief the NAZIs NEVER won an election. The best they ever did was 11% in 1929. That did, however, gain them some seats in parliament. The conservative government panicked and hoped to appease and quiet the extreme fringe by giving Hitler the presidency. In theory a good move since the presidency was almost entirely a ceremonial role. The president did get to appoint the chancelor but only if the current one resigned, retired or died. Other than that - almost no real power

    49. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      Your denial of the fact that hate speech 1) Is violence
      2) reduces equality from the law and
      3) endangers people

      What I think is going on is that you are trying to censor legitimate speech and failing hard for the most part. Saying speech is "violence" is meaningless since speech in itself can't cause bodily injury. Saying it reduces equality from the law is vapid since speech doesn't have anything to do with equality of the law. Procedures and actions of the legislature, regulators, law enforcement and the courts do. And of course, you have yet to show that hate speech endangers people.

      So not only do I deny your claims, but I believe reality does as well.

    50. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >Saying speech is "violence" is meaningless since speech in itself can't cause bodily injury
      Brain damage is bodily injury and speech can cause it. Much like smorking - one cigarette won't kill you and one person calling you a n***** won't give you brain damage. But the same thing every day over decades definitely WILL cause permanent and severe harm.

      >Saying it reduces equality from the law is vapid since speech doesn't have anything to do with equality of the law
      So you think that judges and lawyers do not hold prejudicial views ? That their views are not, like everybody else's, reinforced when they hear others express similar views ? By reinforcing prejudicial views in judges - words can, and do, reduce equality before the law. Hell - think about it - nobody is BORN prejudiced, prejudice is memetic - and the judge that acts racist could not have become so unless they had first been infected by the racism meme. If nobody had ever expressed racist views TO the judge, the judge could never have become a racist themselves.

      >Procedures and actions of the legislature, regulators, law enforcement and the courts do.
      All of which are done by people - who also, can ONLY, gain prejudices after being introduced to them by other people. Racism is a *very* recent phenomenon. It didn't exist at all just 500 years ago. It was only invented at the start of the age of exploration/colonisation. When greedy bastards wanted to conquer other peoples' homes and steal their resources and enslave them - but had to deal with a church and legal system that was already quite opposed to all these things (the Magna Carta had been going on 400 years old already). The best way to get around the law and the church and the social mores was to pretend that those aren't really "people" they were stealing from an exploiting (and completely contradicting the previous claim but that never stopped a greedy person spreading propaganda: that they were bringing civilization to the barbarians). That's when racism began. That was the first time racist thought was ever expressed - it started out as nothing but propaganda to get society to tolerate actions which, while it would make some people very rich, went fundamentally against the values of that society. Propaganda begat a meme which infects us and harms and shapes our society for the worse until this day.

      >What I think is going on is that you are trying to censor legitimate speech
      No. I'm trying to cure society of a memetic plague through quarantining the worst infection vectors.

      >And of course, you have yet to show that hate speech endangers people.
      Fire and brimmstone pastor tells people Gays caused the latest Hurricane - somebody IS going to go gay-bashing to punish them. It's incitement. It can never NOT be incitement. Regardless of whether it was intentional incitement it WILL incite. That's how it endangers people.

      Right now, the law is at it's least racist since the invention of racism - a few big issues remain though. For example the targetting of black men by police. Something which comes down to police being nervous off them - because the strong meme of that 'dangerous black thug' is more powerful an influence on their perceptions of a situation than the reality of what their senses are telling them at that moment. The meme is the killer. The meme needs to be eradicated, because it's killing people.
      But there is more to it than that. It took enormous hardship and 500 years of the worst injustices of our civilization to get here. But if the memes are allowed to live on, if pockets of the disease are left to remain - then like a cancer it will flare up again, and in a hundred years, or two hundred years, things will be as bad as they were a hundred years ago.

      Progress is not automatic - not even technological progress is automatic, it takes effort, and 99% of that effort is eradicating old and wrong-headed ways of thinking. That too, is true of technology as it is of society.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    51. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      You moved the goalposts there. You claimed that hate-speech laws were either ineffective or actively contributed to the holocaust. Now you shifted your argument to "did not prevent it". Well I never claimed it did or would have. One may wonder if the hate speech laws in Weimar were merely insufficient ? Or merely insufficiently enforced ? Even outside that it's a meaningless observation. Nobody thinks hate-speech laws are a cure-all for society's ills (anybody who does is delusional). They are merely a protection against a specific set of harms. Nothing more, nothing less. They don't make the racism or the sexism go away - they just mean that, in normal circumstances, people are less subjected to it. Others may still hold those views, but they are less capable of harming you as a result. That doesn't mean "incapable" - just less capable. Preventing outcomes like the holocaust takes a lot more than hate-speech laws, but it does not follow that hate-speech laws are not an absolute necessity as a component. Just like your car needs a lot more than brake-fluid to drive, but it doesn't mean it is safe to drive it without brake fluid.

      Contrary to your persistent and false belief - speech CAN harm people in real and concrete ways. Not least of which - a pattern of abusive speech causes permanent neurological damage. This is well established neuro-science. Your claim that hate-speech is not abusive is just your same-old strawman of falsely expanding what hate-speech laws are.

      Here's a hint: the slippery slope argument is fallacious and any argument based on it should be ignored. It's perfectly possible to ONLY ban words that are known to harm, or contribute to a pattern of harm - without that ever expanding beyond that. Then the only remaining debate is around whether a particular word would meet that definition - for that you need strong scientific consensus. Transgender people fit into that category - the consensus is very strongly in their favour and in favour of the idea that refusal to, for example, call them by their chosen pronounce significantly contribute to severe harm towards them - up to and including death. Now perhaps in the future new evidence will cast serious doubt on that (I don't think that's likely but it could happen) - in which case the inclusion of that in some laws should be revisted. Right now, we should make laws with the best information we have available.

      Any law that restricts speech should always be as narrow as possible - but that doesn't mean there are never legitimate reasons to do so. All such laws CAN be overbroad or abused. Should we get rid of libel laws because the UK's libel laws are massively overbroad and frequently used to stifle legitimate public interest news ? Or should the UK just fix their libel laws ? If Canada's hate-speech laws are, in fact, overbroad -that's an argument for narrowing Canada's hate-speech laws to a more appropriate level, it's not an argument against having any. But so far, the only 'abuse' I've seen is some bigotted Canadian professor who would rather be a criminal than show somebody the most basic level of respect of calling them by the term they wish to be known by.

      That's the real issue. There is NO such thing as 'politically correct'. There is only respecting the humanity of all others, or NOT respecting the humanity of all others. There is what you call 'politically correct' and there is being a terrible person. But there is no way to be a good person, or a productive and useful member of society without also being 'politically correct'.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    52. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      A Harvard study found that all spankings, no matter how mild or rare cause permanent brain damage which left lifelong visible scars in MRIs. A follow-up found the same scarring in kids who grew up with parents that abused EACH OTHER but not the children.
      The evidence suggests that the problem is stress hormones. These obviously spike in stressful situations such as spankings or hearing mommy and daddy attack each other. And the evidence is very strong that, in a child's developing brain - those spikes cause permanent harm. We are not evolved to experience ANY stress as children - our entire evolution is built around the premise of providing children with safe 'nests' and stress hormone spikes are never good anyway, stress kills adults after all ,but in kids it is much, much worse.

      Now riddle me this.
      Do you SERIOUSLY contend the following:
      1) That hate speech do NOT regularly get lobbed at young children as well ?
      2) That being targeted by hate speech would not cause significant stress ?
      3) That the persistent and repeating nature of hate speech (there is no such thing as an isolated incidence) would not aggravate the effects ?
      4) That children can reasonably judge which adults words to care about - and should be able to ignore the outcomes ?

      Because you would have to make ALL those ridiculous claims to persist in your belief that words cannot cause real, physical harm.

      Now you may declare (as you previously tried) that things which are harmful to children should not be denied adults, and generally that argument is true, but it doesn't apply to something which inevitably gets targeted at children as well. There is no fantasyland where racists ONLY shout slurs at grown ups (Who are ALSO harmed - just less so and less severely).
      When something is a clear and present danger to children, CANNOT be (even slightly) constrained to use among adults and does not serve any beneficial purpose - what the hell is wrong with banning it ? That is every possible criteria for a GOOD law right there.

      Your philosophical belief that the electro-chemical device known as the human brain computer not be affected by outside inputs is simply utterly and completely devoid of reality. That bad inputs can cause permanent harm to it is literally the basis of three entire fields of science. If you were right - surely SOMEBODY would have figured out by now that psychology, psychiatry and neurology are ALL studying something that apparently does not exist ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    53. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      I'm not surprised you're resorting now to a "think of the children" argument. The answer remains "no". Corporal punishment is not speech. Schools which refuse to address bullying aren't speech. Brain changes due to stress are not speech. Characterizing brain changes as "scarring" are not speech.

      Everything I've seen you or the rest of the world say about hate speech is that you are trying to ban certain speech that you don't like (and every example you've given so far is something I wouldn't like either). But my view here is that hate speech crosses the line from banning harmful behavior to banning peoples' ability to speak their mind (no matter how many spiders dwell in that mind). If that additional freedom means somehow more brain "scarring" than before in young adults, then sorry, that's a consequence I find acceptable in order to have the necessary level of free speech.

      But having said that, I don't believe hate speech laws will actually do anything to prevent harm to children any more than they prevented the Holocaust. Even when such laws are successfully enforced, society loses in many ways.

    54. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by khallow · · Score: 1

      You claimed that hate-speech laws were either ineffective or actively contributed to the holocaust.

      I still do. Note in the quote I gave that the three top pre-war propagandists all had been tried for hate speech. Julius Streicher even made a career of it with two jail sentences and 36 appearances in court by himself or his editors. The trials just generated massive free publicity for the Nazi cause.

      My view is hate speech law doesn't even slow down the worst abusers. It's a reward not a punishment. Instead, it's a typical secret police kind of law to force normal people to watch their words because some informer might be in earshot. Best to just not have the law in the first place so that people can freely speak their minds no matter what nastiness is in that mind.

    55. Re:The war on speech is already being waged.... by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      >I'm not surprised you're resorting now to a "think of the children" argument
      Strawman, that was NOT what I did. I showed scientific evidence of harm - and merely honestly admitted that children are more vulnerable to this harm than adults.
      Liar, liar pants on fire.

      Though for the record. Just because a lot of 'think of the children' arguments are bullshit, that doesn't mean one can never be a perfectly valid argument. The ONLY argument for putting a fence around fishing ponds is 'think of the children'. The only argument for having a safety nett on your pool is 'think of the children'. The only argument for fucking car seats is "think of the children". None of these things are bad, and society isn't harmed by any of them -and frankly if you don't put a fence around your pond and some kid drowns in it (as happened to a friend of mine just a few months ago who had to bury their 2-year old after he wandered off during a birthday party and before they found him fell into a neighbours fishpond) - you should be charged with reckless endangerment and frankly it's insane that it isn't illegal to have a pond without a fence in the first place. That's not an unreasonable reduction in liberty for the lives it saves. "Think of the children" is only a bad argument when the proposed solution is to restrict adults from something that can easily be kept away from children. It's not a a de facto bad thing - and this wasn't even an example of either.

      > Corporal punishment is not speech.
      And conveniently ignore that I showed you how the same study ALSO proved the same effects just from overhearing adults fight. Or is stuff people say to each other not speech now either?

      > Schools which refuse to address bullying aren't speech.
      Sorry, wait, bullying when not involving actually beating somebody up or stuffing them in a locker or other physical assault is not speech ? How the hell is that not speech ? And how is it related to the subject ? Do you really think only OTHER KIDS will shout racial slurs at a kid ? DO you think racist adults don't ? Do you think they don't hear what adults say on the news ?
      Do you know how teachers in America are currently struggling with panicked kids from Muslim or Latin backgrounds crying in class because the bad man running for president told them if he wins they and their families will be deported ? Kids born in America, citizens, who have never known any other life.
      What delusion are you under ?

      >Characterizing brain changes as "scarring"
      So ... you are now smarter than the neuroscientists who described what they saw as scarring, a term which in the field has a very specific meaning. It means brain damage.

      >are not speech.
      How is characterising something NOT an act of speech ? What he hell did you even try to say there?

      > If that additional freedom means somehow more brain "scarring" than before in young adults
      So you do not classify fucking BRAIN DAMAGE as harm ? What insane level do you draw the line at then ? Is waterboarding in the same category as beach vacations to you ? And if nothing else, consider this, the science is a lot less strong on this and I'm admitting that upfront - but the researchers who did that study found an interesting pattern. The people with the most severe damage - are the ones MOST likely to defend the actions that caused it with 'my parents did that to me and I turned out fine'. The evidence strongly suggest they didn't - that the damage done to them have made them incapable of recognizing the harm it causes (brain damaged after all) and more likely to inflict that harm on others. This fits the pattern of other forms of severe psychiatric harm that often creates a pattern of repetition - for example victims of sexual abuse are far more likely to become sexual abusers than other people.
      And since it's permanent damage- it's not just young adults, it's ALL adults soon enough.

      >I find acceptable in order to have the necessary level of free speech.
      There is nothi

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  12. Can't fix stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some idiots will see badness everywhere. Should we make everything in the world soft and fluffy so they don't get their feelings hurt? I think not.

    1. Re:Can't fix stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So basically YOU see badness in "soft and fluffy".... oh the irony :)

  13. Coming soon to a reality near you! by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    Next up, people across the internet band together to defend the honor and dignity of a real person!

    1. Re:Coming soon to a reality near you! by ZenShadow · · Score: 1

      Next up, people across the internet band together to defend the honor and dignity of a real person!

      WIll. Never. Happen.

      --
      -- sigs cause cancer.
    2. Re:Coming soon to a reality near you! by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      They're called white knights. They usually only show up to defend a fair maiden when they attack someone, and get called out on their bullshit. Kinda like this...

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
  14. How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants? by mi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "It's completely insane that Pepe has been labeled a symbol of hate, and that racists and anti-Semites are using a once peaceful frog-dude from my comic book as an icon of hate"

    How much of that racism and anti-Semitism is actually real, and how much — "false flag" operations by DNC-operatives like these?

    “You remember the Iowa state fair thing where Scott Walker grabbed the sign out of the dude’s hand and then the dude kind of gets roughed up right in front of the stage right there on camera?” Foval asks. “That was all us. The guy that got roughed up is my counterpart who works for Bob.”

    Foval also references Shirley Teeter, a sixty-nine-year-old lady who claims that she was assaulted at a Trump rally in North Carolina. “She was one of our activists,” he says while introducing the term bird dogging to the political lexicon.

    In addition to these thugs on the ground, Clinton's campaign also employs online trolls (like Putin). If her political consultants aren't directing some of these guys to create fake "hate posts" — as their ethics clearly allow them to do — they aren't earning their pay...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  15. They are stopping? by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So, the ADL and the press are going to stop lying about and slandering Pepe? That is good news.

    Oh, not that? They are going to try the anti-racist skinhead gambit? What do you mean you've never heard of anti-racist skinheads? Well, crap, I guess there may be a reason for that, and one that doesn't bode well for this nonsense.

    --
    See that "Preview" button?
    1. Re:They are stopping? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      I used to know an anti-racist skinhead, back in the 80's. He was an okay guy. There are lots of decent people in many subcultures.

    2. Re:They are stopping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so actually you knew punk-rocker who was just confused?

      ok so here's the lowdown:
      1. tattoos, shaven head, likes to get into fights, drink and say that drug users are bad while at the same time taking them and dealing as well and racist: skinhead.
      2. tattoos, possibly shaven head, likes to get into fights drink and say that drug users are bad while at the same time taking them and dealing as well and says that he is anti-racist: punk.

      it's not that easy to tell them apart really. by any coincidence did the skinhead you knew listen to white power punk or just "regular" ska punk? if it was the white power variety then yes he is racist. if the former then what you knew was a punk rocker.

      also - 99% of the time skinheads actually have actual fistfights with members of the group 2. rather than members of other races. they also both deal meth, apart from the straight X punks who only do that occasionally and may be members of either group 1 or group 2.

    3. Re:They are stopping? by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Oh, not that? They are going to try the anti-racist skinhead gambit? What do you mean you've never heard of anti-racist skinheads? Well, crap, I guess there may be a reason for that, and one that doesn't bode well for this nonsense.

      They're called SHARPs, Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice. If you haven't heard of them before, that's probably because you live in a severely insulated bubble. If you actually knew some skins or even some punks you'd have heard of SHARPs.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:They are stopping? by dasunt · · Score: 1

      They're called SHARPs, Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice. If you haven't heard of them before, that's probably because you live in a severely insulated bubble. If you actually knew some skins or even some punks you'd have heard of SHARPs.

      There's also the ARA (Anti-Racist Action Network). Not sure how active they are now, but they used to be pretty active around here.

    5. Re:They are stopping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I must live in a bubble. It's full of things that actually matter

    6. Re:They are stopping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This may be pertinent to your interests ...

      Don Lett's film about the history of the skinhead movement; spoiler, not until the 70s/80s was there any association with racism.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xmNXCRnLQo

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07yv0qj/the-story-of-skinhead-with-don-letts

    7. Re:They are stopping? by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 3, Informative

      They're called SHARPs, Skin Heads Against Racial Prejudice. If you haven't heard of them before, that's probably because you live in a severely insulated bubble. If you actually knew some skins or even some punks you'd have heard of SHARPs.

      lol, this is like chastising someone for not knowing the difference between a Playstation and a Nintendo

      "Mommmm! I'm not a neo-Nazi, I'm a SHARP! And it's not just a phase, it's who I am now!"

    8. Re:They are stopping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Weren't the original skinheads Caribbean?

    9. Re:They are stopping? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      lol, this is like chastising someone for not knowing the difference between a Playstation and a Nintendo
      "Mommmm! I'm not a neo-Nazi, I'm a SHARP! And it's not just a phase, it's who I am now!"

      Wow. How ironic. SHARPs are the guys who get in the fights with the racial skins. And here you are, equating them to Neo-Nazis. When you make it out of your safe space bubble and spend some time with some street punks you'll know something, not until.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:They are stopping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah yes, the well-known offshoot of the GNAA.

    11. Re:They are stopping? by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      They're still just bonehead idiots who ruin shows by getting into fights. The fact that they look for guys with swastika tattoos to fight first doesn't make much difference.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  16. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Noishkel · · Score: 0

    Good god, look at the number on this post already. Everyone's getting voted down as if it's an organized response... which it probably is! And hell I've read the reports of her paid trolls from multiple sources now.

  17. is it any wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that you are lost? your whole civilization is derived from the Greek/roman state sponsored pederasty.

  18. Trump is not racist. by REALMAN · · Score: 0

    Trump is not racist nor anti-semitic. This is a lie propagated by the mentally ill liberal left. Trump was the first, when building his golf courses with clubhouses, to allow blacks and Jews to become club members much to the annoyance of all the other clubhouses that discriminated.

    --
    - A Frog in a pond utters an azure cry. -
    1. Re:Trump is not racist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He fits the stereotype of the racist person (old white male).

      But his tendency to use controversial innuendoes all the time and generally talk shit as a way to promote himself make his wounds self-inflicted in my opinion.

    2. Re:Trump is not racist. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False. Everyone is racist.

      False. See above.

      False. There were others before him.

    3. Re:Trump is not racist. by MightyMartian · · Score: 1
      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  19. And the results are in by Sibko · · Score: 2

    Here's what one of the new strips looks like.
    http://i.imgur.com/3j1Y1pt.png

    Here is what was immediately (within hours) done with it:
    http://i.imgur.com/DM8FCzc.png
    http://i.imgur.com/sSYU61s.png

    1. Re:And the results are in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a little bit of irony about the panel that ends in a nuclear war mushroom cloud In the 60's Hillary was a Republican and worked on the Goldwater campaign. Of course, the famous Daisy attack ad also ended with a mushroom cloud and was a deciding factor in Goldwater's and thus Hillary's loss. It would be funny if another mushroom cloud political ad was involved with another Hillary loss.

    2. Re:And the results are in by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      It's almost as if you can't force a meme...

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  20. Actaully the WSJ debunked Hillary's claim already by Noishkel · · Score: 5, Informative

    The TL:DR version of this story was that someone trolled 'The Daily Beast' pretty hard by creating a lot of fake racist Pepe's under a pseudonym of 'Jared Taylor Swift'. To quote the article the Daily Beast ended up publishing was 'more or less a complete troll job,”

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/regression-to-the-meme-1473960707

  21. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

    How much of that racism and anti-Semitism is actually real, and how much — "false flag" operations by DNC-operatives like these?

    1) CTR explicitly instructs its workers to create and distribute racist Pepes to discredit Pepe and the so-called "alt right".

    2) As anyone who spends a good amount of time on 4chan knows, literally anything at all that becomes popular will become nazi-fied at some point. It's just how the internet works, especially when you're dealing with jaded mostly-teenagers with practically total anonymity. Anything that can have swastikas spammed on it will have swastikas spammed on it, whether that 'anything' is a frog meme or a minecraft server.

    3) Yes, there is racism on 4chan. Racists (and all other sorts of assholes) will always flock to bastions of anonymity and free speech - just look at any relatively-unmoderated comments section on any site on the internet. And while racism and Pepe may sometimes intersect by chance (see #2), there is no genuine correlation between the two. Much less is Pepe some revered symbol for white supremacists.

    4) Also important: Much (most?) of the racism on 4chan is ironic and meant to be humorous. However since a prison shower would seem like an intolerable cesspool of political correctness compared to 4chan, this subtlety is completely lost on virtually everyone else in the world, and those who try to understand often just come to the conclusion that channers are Bad People for being amused by such things.

  22. ADL is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lets see here... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanka_Trump ... His daughter's religion is "Judaism (Modern Orthodox)" and she married a Jew. Typical Racist KKK Anti-Semitic White Power family I guess.

    Is there any low Hillary will not go?

    1. Re:ADL is a joke by D00MSlayer · · Score: 1

      Just because his daughter married someone who is jewish and converted doesn't mean he's not racist.

      My grandpa was still racist even after the fact that he had a black daughter-in-law and half-black grand-daughter. It took him a LONG time to get the racist BS out of his head about black people, but he's still racist towards asians and indians, that hasn't changed.

    2. Re:ADL is a joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trump has had a Jewish attorney - Marc Kasowitz - working for him for decades now.

  23. Re:Why not just address the problem? Nazi trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "jews jews jews"

    Joshua Ryne Goldberg is that you?

    http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/American-Jewish-online-troll-arrested-in-alleged-Kansas-City-911-memorial-bomb-plot-415948

  24. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Racism in jest is still racism. It's not like phrasing it as a joke somehow makes it less demeaning. There are ways to show racism ironically (the Monty Python gameshow skit Prejudice shows how satirical racism can be used effectively), but whatever 4chan's basement dwellers are doing, it isn't satire, and it most certainly isn't ironic. Perhaps it is the verbal equivalent of farting in a small room, but just because you laugh afterwards doesn't mean it smells any sweeter.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  25. Re:Why not just address the problem? Nazi trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unbelievable, some jerk modded me down to hide my comment, yet couldn't debunk a single one of my points.
    There's no hate involved in this here. Every single one of these points is valid if you take the time to research it.
    Screaming NAZI at people isn't going to solve any of the problems we are facing. That's pure slander and an emotional reaction.
    There is no hate, people, THINK about what is going on. Research things for yourself, don't just take my word for it.
    We need to be able to openly discuss topics such as this on an open forum without the mindless kneejerk reaction of people modding it down to hide it out of mind out of sight.

  26. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As I said, the subtlety and humor is lost on pearl clutchers.

  27. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/comedian-jackie-mason-gets-politically-803801

    There is only free speech now in this country for black people and homosexuals and any other minority ... But if you are a white Protestant American gentile you can't say a word," [Legendary 84-year-old comedian Jackie Mason] says.

    Seinfeld set off a debate in Hollywood — in particular among comedians — when he said during an ESPN interview that college kids were too quick to brand comedians "sexists" and "racists" if they were to tell jokes perceived as insensitive. Colleagues like Dave Chappelle and Bill Maher have agreed with Seinfeld while others, notably Whoopi Goldberg, have been less supportive.

  28. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The DNC is shameless. From dead people voting to paying trouble makers to intentionally incite violence. These people are scum. They have zero morals.

    How anyone can support oligarch Clinton and the millions she made from selling access is beyond me. Think, people.

  29. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (shhhh, nobody tell him about Pedobear)

  30. Re:Why not just address the problem? Nazi trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, I remember that guy
    Last I heard he was institutionalized.
    To be honest I feel kind-of bad for him. He believed in the idea of completely unrestricted free speech, which is applaudable, and what you would have in an ideal society. Actions are what matter not words. Unfortunately he didn't respect the responsibility that comes with it. Ended up promoting a terror plot to get "the whites" and Muslims fighting with each other. Completely nuts, smart, maybe, but nuts. It's what happens when you really believe in all the 4chan /pol/ stuff, but you're Jewish yourself. And that's my biggest fear, that maybe the internet nazis are right. You can complain about supremacist groups, but it takes one to know one. Look at Israel with their settlements and everything that goes on in the west bank. It's a modern apartheid state, yet none of that gets called out even though it totally should because the media is controlled by zionist jews. You sound crazy if you say that, but it's the truth. The only other country that comes close is South Africa, and that died a while ago, they caught tons of flak in the press too before it happened.
    That's my fear, that the internet nazi's are actually right about all this shit.
    Well Joshua was an ass, and he deserved everything he got, but us neets should stick together. Can't hate him too much.

  31. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    whatever 4chan's basement dwellers are doing, it isn't satire, and it most certainly isn't ironic.

    Most 4channers are just trolls. But ironically, there are some genuinely ironic types in there as well. I don't think it's worth sifting through to find them, but they do crop up.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  32. p&d group in action it seems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it a p&d ?
    Pobably
    https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1023925.0

  33. Re: How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You would have to be an utter moron to think that CTR memo is real. Jesus fucking Christ.

  34. So lets recap... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ADL, an organisation controlled by Hillary (via Chelsea), defames a cartoon by labeling it a hate symbol (i.e. Anti-hillary). ADL and/or media outlets PRODUCE white-supremacist KKK Pepe (image searches of said images prove that they did not exist beforehand). ADL then wish to "save pepe."

    To me Hillary is simply trying to control a meme that has damaged her in social media and use it for her own propaganda. She's trolling you, don't fall for it.

  35. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by WalksOnDirt · · Score: 1

    Monty Python's Prejudice

    --
    a,e,i,o,u and sometimes w and y (at be if of up cwm by)
  36. Re:Why not just address the problem? Nazi trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >That's my fear, that the internet nazi's are actually right about all this shit.

    There it is.

  37. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Racism in jest is still racism. It's not like phrasing it as a joke somehow makes it less demeaning.

    You keep using that word. Racism means the prejudice against people based on common outward characteristics (phenotype). Whether it's "demanding" or not is inconsequential, it's impossible for a statement to be racist, unless the speaker bases his statement on prejudice.

    but whatever 4chan's basement dwellers are doing, it isn't satire, and it most certainly isn't ironic

    Unless you are a mind reader, you have no way of knowing what a bunch of anonymous people on the Internet are thinking. Assuming the worst about those you dislike is ironically quite prejudiced of you.

  38. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of them, I tell you. All of them.

    There are no racists and anti-semites among the Trump followers, oh no. Nonono.

  39. Left vs right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm honestly more concerned about anti-semitism from the left, at present. Sure, there are some alt-right wackos online - but on the left, the wackos railing against a "Zionist conspiracy" get positions of authority, like heading the national union of students here in the UK. And then you've got the left's disconcerting alliance with Islamists, some of whom are downright genocidal...

    1. Re:Left vs right by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      The wack jobs on the right want the Jews to go to Israel. The wack jobs on the left want Israel destroyed. Hmmm....

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  40. Jesus Christ by rebelwarlock · · Score: 2

    I couldn't think of anything I gave less of a shit about when I heard that some group of retards was calling a cartoon frog that made funny faces racist, and then this bullshit came up. Can we just stop talking about them forever? They are not, have never, and will never have any meaningful impact on anything. Their ideas are stupid and pointless. Just forget they exist and they really will cease to exist.

    1. Re:Jesus Christ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Just forget they exist and they really will cease to exist."

      Just so you know: Singing "la la la" and putting your fingers in your ears will not make things go away...

      Moreover, if you think racist speech has never had an impact then perhaps you are the retard?

      Have a nice day.

    2. Re:Jesus Christ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can think of a ton of stuff I care less about. You'll find that my comments aren't in those threads. Tell us more about how little this means to you.

  41. "Hate" - LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Who redefined the word "Hate" to mean "anything the Jew doesn't want you to hear"? Why, it was the Jew who runs the entire media. And the Zionist Occupied Governments of the West all went along with it, denying free speech to their victims - sorry - 'electorate'...

    White people have the right to have their own countries.

    Anybody care to explain why they disagree with that statement?

  42. Funny picture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can anyone look at this picture, and not burst out laughing?

  43. Crime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For designating the Pepe the frog as a hate symbol, the ADL should be charged with defamation themselves.

    Poetic justice.

  44. Alt-right election nightmare as in Donald? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  45. Fascism =/= totalitarian by cbraescu1 · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Fascist assholes who simply want to silence their opposition are all over the spectrum, sadly.

    By definition Fascists, being on the extreme left (as they are an offshoot of Socialism, just like the Nazis), can't be "all over the spectrum".

    You may be thinking of totalitarian minded people (or whatever you want to call that).

    --
    Catalin Braescu
    Ofaly.com
    1. Re:Fascism =/= totalitarian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fascist assholes who simply want to silence their opposition are all over the spectrum, sadly.

      By definition Fascists, being on the extreme left (as they are an offshoot of Socialism, just like the Nazis), can't be "all over the spectrum".

      You may be thinking of totalitarian minded people (or whatever you want to call that).

      You are an idiot. Facsism is NOT a left ideology. you are a real life example of the Dunning-Krueger effect. You should probably shut up and let the informed adults talk.

    2. Re:Fascism =/= totalitarian by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "You are an idiot. Facsism is NOT a left ideology."

      Fascism had plenty of left-leaning ideologies; socialism is rather credited as a left-leaning ideology. But as it was, when the Fascists came around in WWI via Italy, they pulled from both dies and considered themselves centric instead of left or right.

      "You should probably shut up and let the informed adults talk."

      Utterly ironic that you say that after your ignorant-ass blurb.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re: Fascism =/= totalitarian by prof_robinson · · Score: 1

      Fascism is not leftwing. You just dont understand how Left Europe is that socialist fascists can appear to be "right".

    4. Re: Fascism =/= totalitarian by Khyber · · Score: 1

      You can say that while I'm connected to several thousand Europeans daily in my video chats.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    5. Re: Fascism =/= totalitarian by prof_robinson · · Score: 1

      No, I can say it because it is true.


      The entire human political struggle is the individual vs the state. In broad strokes, from Left to Right:

      Totalitarianism > Communism > Socialism > Progressvism > [center] > Conservativism > Objectivism > Libertarianism > anarchy

      That's "total government and no individuals" to "all individuals and no government".

      In Europe, the furthest Right they ever get is Progressive. So when the communists smear the socialists they call them "rightwing" because to them, THEY ARE rightwing.

      Fascism is a variant of socialism and communism. It MEANS SOMETHING. It's not just a "catch-all" or "shorthand" for whatever you hate, or find oppressive. Just because the communists in europe call the socialists rightwing, doesn't mean you can call the Tea Party or the Libertarians, socialists or fascists.

      The Nazis were ardent socialists (hence the term "National socialism"). They believed in free health care and guaranteed jobs. They confiscated inherited wealth and spent vast sums on public education. They purged the church from public policy, promoted a new form of pagan spirituality, and inserted the authority of the state into every nook and cranny of daily life. The Nazis declared war on smoking, supported abortion, euthanasia, and gun control. They loathed the free market, provided generous pensions for the elderly, and maintained a strict racial quota system in their universities-where campus speech codes were all the rage. The Nazis led the world in organic farming and alternative medicine. Hitler was a strict vegetarian, and Himmler was an animal rights activist. You equate the fascists with "jack-booted thugs", forgetting what it was that the thugs were there to enforce in the first place: national socialism.

      And then, there's this:

      "We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler, Quoted in John Toland, "Adolf Hitler", p224.

      Yeah, that sounds totally like the American Right. *Totally*

  46. Re:Actaully the WSJ debunked Hillary's claim alrea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Reminds me of the Grog XD incident

  47. Re:Why not just address the problem? Nazi trolls. by Maritz · · Score: 1

    Now there's nothing actually wrong with being Jewish.

    Oh oh... I'm telling on you

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  48. Re: MOD PARENT RACIST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That very last part alone deserves all the mod points. Any opposition to Trump should only need to have that ONE job.

  49. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Even if all that is true (I can't be bothered to check), it was a waste of time. In the end nothing the DNC or Clinton did made much difference. Trump's own words and actions are what ruined his campaign. From the sexual assault to stalking her during the last debate to pretty much everything he has said during the campaign, he played a risky game and ultimately lost.

    My guess is that he saw Brexit and guys like Farrage, the man everyone loves to hate, the most punchable face in Britain, and thought it could work for him too.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  50. Harambe Lives Matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Pepe for President 2016!

  51. So, we're going to pretend Trump is antisemitic? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let me get this straight - they're going to try to tie Trump into this? The same Trump who is officially recognizing Jerusalem as the Israeli capitol?

    It's sad the lengths the looney left has to go to to pretend the Trump is a racist, antisemite, whatever.

  52. Re:Why not just address the problem? Nazi trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you're an Antisemite, but you have sympathies for this Jew because he's also a Nazi and wants to bomb innocent people?

    >Actions are what matter not words
    In this case, words were intended to prepare actions. Of course words matter. If words wouldn't matter, why protect them?

  53. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

    You're confused. "False flag" is not the word you're looking for, "agents provocateurs" is.

    It's funny that the most damning thing you can say about these political agitators is that they're very good at making Trump supporters drop their tendies and REEEE at the slightest provocation.

  54. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by mi · · Score: 1

    In the end nothing the DNC or Clinton did made much difference

    The point is, they tried. Which means, their ethics allow it. So they'll try again — Clinton ain't hurting for money and is not afraid to spend it.

    From the sexual assault

    Sexual assault is rape. Kissing, however unwanted, is not sexual assault. Besides, there is no evidence, he's ever actually done even that much — only talked.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  55. Why the rush? by bytesex · · Score: 1

    Just wait three more weeks or so, and it'll be all over.

    --
    Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
  56. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by mi · · Score: 1

    "False flag" is not the word you're looking for, "agents provocateurs" is.

    Read the link carefully (and watch the video). Some of the things listed really were "false flag" operations. Such as:

    “So the Chicago protest when they shut all that, that was us,” says Black/Minter. “It was more him [Bob Creamer - a convicted fraudster, mi] than me, but none of this is supposed to come back to us, because we want it coming from people, we don’t want it to come from the party. So if we do a protest and it’s a DNC protest, right away the press is going to say partisan. But if I’m in there coordinating with all the troops on the ground and sort of playing the field general but they are the ones talking to the cameras, then it’s actually people. But if we send out press advisories with DNC on them and Clinton campaign it just doesn’t have that same effect.”

    See? Their real flag would have the letter "H" on it with the strange "move right" arrow on it. But "it just doesn't have that same effect", so they falsely raised the flag of "grassroots". Hence "false flag".

    It's funny that the most damning thing you can say [...]

    Not an ounce of shame in you, is there? Nothing like "OMG, I can't believe Hillary Clinton, such a lady it seemed, could possible have approved anything like that!" None... A typical Democrat.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  57. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    I love the way you boldly posted a link which actually debunks your claim. Grabbing someone by the pussy would also qualify as sexual assault.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  58. Thought process by operagost · · Score: 1

    Good: comic creator wants to fix the belligerent, intolerant message attached to it by wingnuts.

    Bad: comic creator decides to do so by using an belligerent, intolerant message that attacks a guy who had nothing to do with the ill-gotten appropriation of his character.

    --

    Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
  59. There is only one legitimate response. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    reeee

  60. False by s.petry · · Score: 1

    Read the Federalist papers.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:False by silentcoder · · Score: 1

      The complete and utter fucking disaster the founding fathers abandoned almost immediately because it was an unworkable mess ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    2. Re:False by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

      Huh?

      The Federalist Papers

      Also recommended: The Anti-Federalist Papers

      Perhaps you're thinking of the Articles of Confederation?

    3. Re:False by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite clearly, you have no idea what's being discussed.

    4. Re:False by s.petry · · Score: 1

      As two other people already let known, you are a fool. Perhaps an ignorant fool, but a fool nonetheless.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    5. Re:False by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, that is the Articles of Confederation. The Federalist Papers are a collection of papers by Hamilton, Madison, and Jay that were written to promote and explain the constitution. Maybe you should start with an elementary history primer.

  61. Re:So, we're going to pretend Trump is antisemitic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where does it say Trump is a racist or anti-Semite? You are spouting a non-sequitur. It does call the alt-right racist and anti-Semitic, which is of course true, but not Trump.

  62. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by mi · · Score: 1

    Grabbing someone by the pussy would also qualify as sexual assault.

    Maybe, but I was talking about kissing. But, whatever — neither of the two Presidential nominees have ever done it. There is not even a credible accusation, much less proof.

    Intimidating witnesses and victims of rape — yes, of that Hillary Clinton, the women's champion, was rather credibly accused decades ago, and not once. Maybe, Democrats should concentrate on making her more likable, instead of worrying about Pepe.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  63. You can see what they really did there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They imply that those who are alt-right are also racists and anti-Semites. Talk about prejudice and bigotry.

  64. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    Maybe, but I was talking about kissing.

    Funny, I could have sworn you said (and I quote):

    "sexual assult is rape"

    Along with a link saying it is not in fact the case.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  65. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by mi · · Score: 1

    I could have sworn you said (and I quote): "sexual assault is rape"

    What I said right next to that was: "Kissing, even if unwanted, is not sexual assault". Funny, you chose to completely ignore that.

    Now, the "sexual assault is rape" bit was sarcasm. To turn a sexual assault into rape requires about as much (slightly less, actually) semantic-stretching as is needed to turn a kiss, however unwanted, into an assault. And battery — as a colleague of yours was doing yesterday.

    Back to the basics — the point of mine you desperately try to ignore — is that neither of the two Presidential nominees have ever done it. There is not even a credible accusation, much less proof.

    Intimidating witnesses and victims of rape — yes, of that Hillary Clinton, the women's champion, was rather credibly accused decades ago, and not once. Maybe, Democrats should concentrate on making her more likable, instead of worrying about Pepe.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  66. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

    But what if they let you grab them by the pussy? I hear there are lots of women who let musicians, TV & movie stars, etc, grab them by the pussies.

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  67. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 1

    Oh, so you're mad that they misrepresented themselves, that they were more organized than they appeared? That counts as "false flagging"? You poor thing. Tricking dumb people is cheating. It's just not fair.

    Yet somehow that is different than James O'Keefe's conspiracy theorists pretending to be people they weren't.

    I think you're mad because of your video demonstrates: Democrats are master manipulators whose main weakness is they like to brag, and Trump supporters are violent rubes who can be provoked into a frothy rage on cue. Your big coup is evidence that you're easily trolled.

  68. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

    If somebody goes to a political rally for black people dressed in a klan robe and yelling "N*GGER N*GGER N*GGER" and he gets punched, whose fault is it, and what does it say about everyone involved?

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  69. Re: MOD PARENT RACIST by vel-ex-tech · · Score: 1

    In fact, another way to look at it is: which of the R team candidates in the primary could have lost to Clinton?

    I mean, maybe Fiorina or Carson. Probably others I'm not even remembering. (There were a lot of them after all.) But Jeb!, Kasich, even Lyin' Ted or Rubio could probably have beat Clinton.

    The lizard people came at it from both directions. Clinton's only path to coronation was getting Trump nominated on the R team.

    As predicted, Trump's role is now to completely self-destruct. I was surprised by the Russia angle, but it adds up to more things in the coming shitstorm. So, we get a warmonger president (Clinton) and an apparent mandate by "the people" to start Cold War 2.0 and go after the Russkies.

    Anybody who is being partisan us-vs-them R vs D red vs. blue about this is lost in the moon matrix (MSM/lamestream media). That's right. People foaming at the mouth at Clinton who want Trump are lost in the moon matrix. People foaming at the mouth at Trump who want Clinton are lost in the moon matrix. That's exactly what the lizard people had planned to happen.

    If we're all foaming at the mouth because of the "them" candidate, how will we ever remember that the only way out of this mess is to go and vote Libertarian or Green? I don't mean just for president, either. There are some on the R team or D team worth keeping around, but if anything is going to change before it's too late, we need Libertarians and Greens in state offices and in congress right now.

    It may still be too late even, but "Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

  70. normies by Karmashock · · Score: 1

    Its amazing having these clueless people that don't know anything about memes attempt to subvert them.

    Its like the fucking mainstream media trying to control hashtags or something.

    They don't get it. No one owns this crap. Anyone can use pepe or a hashtag. Its decentralized, leaderless, and chaotic.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    1. Re: normies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm fairly certain given the way strong IP laws are going the artist could probably find grounds to get any pepe images removed from the offending cesspools of circlejerking retards in question, with a takedown on non-compliance. Not that it would happen for many, many reasons, but nothing of value would be lost if it did.

    2. Re: normies by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Taken down from where? The big movie studios can't get copies of their movies removed from the internet. Same with music, software, books, etc.

      --
      I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  71. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't be bothered to find out if the Kool-Aid I'm drinking is poisoned! Too busy drinking Kool-Aid!

    It must be terrifying for you to think of how brainwashed you are -- seeing the door that was locking you in, and having the key in your hand. Please tell us more about how Trump raised the armrest in first class to sexually assault a woman, or how he sexually assaulted a woman in an elevator when he was several states away, on the news, at an opening ceremony for one of his buildings, or how he bought dinner and watched tv with a woman in a hotel room and then didn't give her a job the next day, and that's sexual assault.

  72. Re: MOD PARENT RACIST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    You have no idea what's begun here.

    First, you're following the polls. The polls aren't even close to accurate on this one.

    Second, you're believing the presstitutes. The media has thoroughly disgraced itself in front of the public. Just as it did with Brexit in the UK. NO-ONE trusts them.

    Third, the GOP is a gutted corrupted shell. They will be eaten alive by their base after their behaviour.

    Fourth, the Democrats are a gutted, corrupted shell that's lost the traditional 'young' vote. They will be eaten alive by their own members after the revelations about how Clinton got the nomination and many, many other things.

    Fifth, even if Clinton wins, the information that's coming out will end up with Clinton being impeached.

    Finally, I actually think Trump will win with a healthy margin. When he does... the shit will really hit the fan for the party machines.

    Either way, the main parties are collapsing. I saw the same thing with Brexit... they are SO disconnected from their leaders it's not even funny, it's just pathetic.

  73. Re:So, we're going to pretend Trump is antisemitic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After all his comments about Muslims and Mexicans, and you think we're PRETENDING?!?

  74. Re:So, we're going to pretend Trump is antisemitic by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

    Where does it say Trump is a racist or anti-Semite? You are spouting a non-sequitur. It does call the alt-right racist and anti-Semitic, which is of course true, but not Trump.

    "Furie published a new Pepe cartoon on Monday detailing his "alt-right election nightmare," which depicts a sad Pepe morphing into a frog that resembles Donald Trump and then a monster."

    Uh, that was hard?

    I mean, I know we don't rtfa around here but that came from the summary.

    Anyway, it's sad that they pretend that antisemitism is a disease of the right when it's a far-left/far-right issue. Donald Trump has nothing to do with it - ask Hillary where the capitol of Israel is.

  75. I'm envious by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    I really, really, really envy some people for their problems.

    Out here in the real world, people have real problems.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  76. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

    Funny, you chose to completely ignore that.

    Why is it funny? What's that got to do with you saying "sexual assault is rape"?

    Now, the "sexual assault is rape" bit was sarcasm.

    Well that wasn't obvious from the context.

    colleague of yours

    [citation needed]

    Intimidating witnesses and victims of rape

    Dod you even read your own link? And that's the best spin on it that that a right wing mouthpiece can muster up? Not very damning.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  77. Faggotry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a bunch of faggots. Literally anybody can take literally anything and turn it on its head. To then claim that the original thing is therefore bad is absurd.
    By that logic, creating a picture of an evil covetous Jew would then make ALL pictures of Jews antisemitic.

    Antisemitic drawings are antisemitic.
    Pepe the Frog, by itself, is not.

  78. What ADL needs to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Identify BLM and Feminism as hate groups.

    1. Re: What ADL needs to do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But feminism isn't a group. It is definitely a hateful ideology, though.

  79. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How could somebody with such a low UID also be a shill for Putin/Trump? Did you buy your account?

    If you are as old as your UID implies you are, you should also be quite wise and intelligent. You aren't, so I don't think this is legitimately your account.

  80. Re:So, we're going to pretend Trump is antisemitic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No doubt Trump's a racist, but I don't see that he's anti-Semitic. After all, he wants little guys with yarmulkes counting his money rather than black guys. But it doesn't matter if Trump personally hates Jews because so many of his supporters do.

    The problem is that he panders to the anti-Semites, and no amount of pandering to Jews will negate all the pandering to people who hate Jews.

    Every time Trump retweets a Pepe meme or talks about how the global banking conspiracy is stealing the election from him, the alt-rights all hear "ignore all the stuff I say to Jews -- that's all just pandering to them -- I've got your back".

    dom

  81. you can't do both by Jazoray · · Score: 1

    when its not a symbol of the alt-right, it isn't a force for good.

  82. Re:Why not just address the problem? Nazi trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, homophobia and transphobia are Jewish inventions. Glad to see that you're so eager to suck Jew cock.

  83. I hate you, you son of a motherless dog by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hate you and your silly k nig its. I fart in your general direction you goat monkeys. If you do not go away I shall taunt you again. (paraphrased badly)

    Ban that! :)

  84. Re:Actaully the WSJ debunked Hillary's claim alrea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the daily beast owned by IAC publishing, on the board of directors: Chelsea Clinton

  85. Re:So, we're going to pretend Trump is antisemitic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well he did say "globalists"! Judging from the reactions of the mainstream media, that's one of the most anti-semitic things you can say!

  86. Re:So, we're going to pretend Trump is antisemitic by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

    So, at worst he's as bad as Hillary?

    I can't stand either one and won't vote for either one, but, geeze, I can't imagine what it would look like if Hillary were held to the same standard that Trump is.

  87. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by D00MSlayer · · Score: 1

    So the 9(last I checked) sexual assault accusers, including at least one with a witness is completely fabricated, especially after he has described himself as one who forces himself on women because he's rich and famous?

    It's quite ironic that while he's running for president, he's being accused of sexual assault, much like Bill Clinton was. And here you are.. defending him with every breath you take, trying to discredit the sexual assault accusations made against him.. are you going to start personally discrediting each woman accusing him Much like what HRC did for her husband? You could cut it with a knife, that very thick irony.

  88. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by D00MSlayer · · Score: 1

    Read the link"nofollow">link [cloudfront.net] carefully

    Nobody should read anything that comes from James O'Keefe, the failed self-righteous right-wing troll.

  89. Re:So, we're going to pretend Trump is antisemitic by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

    The Hillary camp is just as likely to say that Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital is likely to cause problems in the Middle east, especially with countries like Saudi Arabia and Qatar, neglecting that those countries sponsor both Isis and the Clinton Foundation. yada yada yada "my nuanced foreign policy"

    Trump is an idiot no doubt. Any well rounded person could have a field day in a debate with Clinton. It is easy to make tacit links between actors all over the place, in this case, Hillary and Isis are linked in ways that she can't possibly deny. Though I am sure she will try.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  90. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Armrests were removable on Boeing 727s at the time.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  91. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The P-word is clearly anti-Semitic, and therefore problematic. We must replace it with a new word. I propose precisice, since cis people don't deserve any protection from being used as part of a slur.

  92. Re:So, we're going to pretend Trump is antisemitic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hillary and Isis are linked in ways that she can't possibly deny. Though I am sure she will try.

    No she won't, because nobody will ask her.

  93. Re:How many of these "anti-Semites" are DNC plants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That depends, are they liberal musicians and stars? If so, that's fine, we wouldn't want to be involved in any slut-shaming because women are free to use their bodies as they see fit. Otherwise they're sluts supporting the patriarchy by reinforcing the behavior of conservative men who feel they should be allowed to grab women by the pussy and ought to be ashamed of themselves.

  94. Tired of both the alt-right and ctrl-left by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All I ever wanted to do was play Hyperdimension Neptunia, watch anime about women's aquatic competitions, and fap to Japanese cartoon porn without having people scream at me for being deplorable, scream at my boss for hiring a deplorable man, scream at my company's customers for buying software from a company that hired a deplorable man, scream at the customers' employees for working for a company that bought software from a company employing a deplorable man, scream at the spouses of those employees for marrying a person working for a company that bought software from a company that hired a deplorable man, and so on.

    I have now come to hate each and every last one of you on both sides, and I'm voting straight ticket libertarian next month.

  95. Pepe was always crap by allo · · Score: 1

    From the beginning it was the shitposter-frog.

  96. Re:Why not just address the problem? Nazi trolls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He wasn't actually a Nazi, he was an internet troll that played different personas, partly for trolling, but he was also freaked out by the what he saw as rising anti-semitism online. The main thing he was against was the identity politics of the left, (anti-white, SJW's) that's what he saw as the main thing fueling the "internet nazi's". Well he ended up going down the same rabbit hole and reached the same conclusions that the internet nazis did, and as a result, became the "sneaky jew". (that's my opinion at least) Still he believed in free speech, so rather than be the type of person who wants to censor everything online he made fake personas to mock and discredit the things he was against.

    That's what I can sympathize with, someone who's jewish falling down that rabbit hole, not his actions afterwards. Trying to egg a radical muslim into carrying out a terrors attack is completely despicable.

  97. Anti-Defamation League is a terrorists group! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    declaring everyday items and symbols as hate symbols, to strike terror and distrust into the heart of fellow man!
    they should add their own logo to their database of "hate symbols".

    who do they think they are, to be able to decide whats a hate symbol or not?
    why should we care what those fanatics claim?

  98. Good god by PontifexMaximus · · Score: 1

    Are you people SERIOUS? Well, if you needed proof that liberalism is a mental illness, here you go.

    I swear, these liberal twats are TOO funny. They can't help themselves be anything but OUTRAGED about everything that they disagree with. So, now conservatism itself is a 'hate group'? Why? Because we respect the law (and law enforcement)? Expect people to get off their asses and work for their next meal? Respect other people's opinion whether we disagree with it or not? Expect to not be taxed to death to prop up people too lazy to work their asses off like the rest of us? I mean, my god that's just a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE ideology, is it not?

    I am bloody disgusted with whiny asses that feign outrage when someone disagrees with them. Liberals spend their lives finding shit to be offended over, and when they DO find something they brand supporters of that as some sort of -ist (racist, sexist, fascist, whatever). As if name calling will make it all better.

    Liberals want everyone to think and act like them and if not you're reviled, outcast, made out to be the next Hitler (re: Trump). Who else could be called a racist for wanting to ENFORCE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAW? (And by, Mexican/Hispanic/Latino IS NOT A RACE you ignoramuses.) Who else could be called a sexist/misogynist for comments made over a decade ago by liberals, but who also defend an ACTUAL sexual assaulter in Bill Clinton?

    Who else wants sodas banned because kids are fat, but also ban freeze tag, et. al. because kids might get hurt?
    Who else calls spanking child abuse, then berates the teacher when their little cretins assault them?
    Who else says Capital Punishment is inhumane, but supports abortion?

    This list goes on and on. But let's not let Pepe the frog become a hate symbol.

    You all want to know why we're fucked eight ways from Sunday in this country? Because fucking liberals are doing their god-damnedest to destroy it. The American flag is a hate symbol to them. The Republicans as well. Whites and their privilege. Words are the worst of all.

    You want to know why we're where we are now? One word. Liberals. Not conservatives. Period.

    --
    Pax Vobiscum