Macs End Up Costing 3 Times Less Than Windows PCs Because of Fewer Tech Support Expense, Says IBM's IT Guy (yahoo.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report on Yahoo (edited): Last year, Fletcher Previn became a cult figure of sorts in the world of enterprise IT. As IBM's VP of Workplace as a Service, Previn is the guy responsible for turning IBM (the company that invented the PC) into an Apple Mac house. Previn gave a great presentation at last year's Jamf tech conference where he said Macs were less expensive to support than Windows. Only 5% of IBM's Mac employees needed help desk support versus 40% of PC users. At that time, some 30,000 IBM employees were using Macs. Today 90,000 of them are, he said. And IBM ultimately plans to distribute 150,000 to 200,000 Macs to workers, meaning about half of IBM's approximately 370,000 employees will have Macs. Previn's team is responsible for all the company's PCs, not just the Macs. All told IBM's IT department supports about 604,000 laptops between employees and its 100,000+ contractors. Most of them are Windows machines -- 442,000 -- while 90,000 are Macs and 72,000 are Linux PCs. IBM is adding about 1,300 Macs a week, Previn said.

Comments

Were the users randomized?

[JMZero]

I mean, I'm sure our Linux users overall require the least tech support. But that's a function of who they are more than what they're using.

I don't doubt that Macs require less support, but 40% vs 5% says that something else is going on - and I doubt that sort of ratio will hold once people are converted in bulk.

Re:Were the users randomized?

[ColdWetDog]

No.I'm sure he's correct. I use a Mac at work in a Windows environment. If I have a question, I get 'duh, we don't know, we don't support Macs, figure it out by yourself'.

So I do. Costs the system a lot less.

Macs for the win!

Re:Were the users randomized?

[Junta]

But likely to be self-selected sample.

So it's going to be mostly mac enthusiasts. Similarly, the Linux users are self-selecting. If a random person is there and is given a random laptop, they are probably given Windows.

Re:Were the users randomized?

[barc0001]

The problem is that not everyone is you. At a former job I supported PCs and then the director of marketing decided that he liked Macs so he unilaterally switched his group to Macs. Anecdotally I'd say the users had just as many problems that needed my help as they did when they were on PCs, and in addition had additional problems they needed sorting out in the first couple of weeks following the switchover due to their lack of familiarity with OSX. Most of their day to day problems were software related, so the underlying OS didn't factor into that one way or the other, and these peoples' self troubleshooting skills were practically nonexistent so it meant just as much work for me, and in some cases more as I was also then tasked to find them alternate software to do a given task.

For the average users, once you get past the enthusiasts skewing the numbers the IT savings will probably not be as significant as this article makes them out to be. People are still going to be having trouble mapping a drive, sharing a folder, logging into an SFTP site on Windows or OSX.

Hardware wise, the Macs generally use decent hardware that lasts, but also charge a premium for that. If offices used PCs that weren't the cheapest thing that fell off the turnip truck they'd see as good or better failure rates than the Macs. And Apple hasn't been 100% immune to shitty hardware slipping out the door so spending more on the Mac isn't a bulletproof guarantee either.

Re:Were the users randomized?

[NatasRevol]

They're not self-selecting at a rate of 1300 people per week...

The IT dept is migrating them.

Don't act like you have more insight into IBM's support issues that the head IT guy at IBM.

Re:Were the users randomized?

[Bigjeff5]

That actually costs your company a lot more, then, not less.

The trick, of course, is that it's a hidden cost that is virtually impossible to tally on a spreadsheet: your productivity is lost while you fix that problem. Did it take you an hour, where a tech might have taken 10 minutes? Did it take you several days when a tech might have had it cleared up in an afternoon? Who gets paid more for their time, you or the tech? That's a cost that's really hard to quantify, and so gets completely ignored.

My favorite example of this is when I worked as a hardware depot manager for one site of a huge global corporation. IT management issued a mandate that said hardware depots could only keep X amount of stock on hand at any given time and could only order new stock when it was gone. New stock orders also required the personal approval of the #3 guy in IT management.

I regularly went through my stock in about a week, week and a half, and it would take two weeks or more to receive a new pallet of computers to refresh my stock. Furthermore, as you might expect, the #3 guy in IT is a pretty busy guy, so he would sometimes take up to a week to approve my stock orders.

In the end, IT saved millions globally because their stock orders were drastically reduced, yet on the local level you had engineers being paid upwards of $1000 a day to twiddle their thumb while they wait for their $500 computer to arrive. But IT doesn't see one dime of that cost. In fact, unless a department gets hit with a flood of new hires who need new computers, it's likely none of the local departments will see a big enough impact on their budget to formally complain to IT about the process. Yet the company's cost saving methods caused a $500 computer to cost upwards of $20,000, and all of it is hidden from the bean counters.

Re: Were the users randomized?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was at IBM until recently. There's some things you need to keep in mind.

One, the Linux numbers are *all* elective. There's almost as many Linux users as Mac, which means the Mac sample is largely being reported based on the people who explicitly requested it. They may have embarked on forced migration after I left, but the numbers are based on an opt-in pilot that was available when I left the company for greener pastures.

Also, ibm had long been using their internal IT as marketing collateral. When IBM had a big deal with Toshiba in selling their retail store business, they forced their users to start using Toshiba laptops as part of that arrangement.

Recently they've partnered with apple and microsoft is a bigger rival than ever. So their IT is tasked with supporting that partnership in technical and marketing capacities.

When dealing with any of these big companies, there's always an agenda that taints the messaging. It's really frustrating bring in this industry knowing that 99% of endorsements carry huge caveats and are motivated by marketing motives target than technical merit.

Re:Were the users randomized?

[angel'o'sphere]

Of course numbers will hold up, facepalm.
Why the funk should a Mac need tech support in the first place?
I never had a Mac that magically forgot where the printer is, lost its IP adress, forgot how to connect to the DSL modem, refused to boot and waited 45 minutrs until it gave up to find its 'domain controller' (what is that actually?)
Sorry, unless a user needs to configure something, and does not know how to do it: a Mac does not need tech support.

I owned over the years like 15 Macs, the only tech support they got was replacements of harddrives, and in one case a motherboard (to a newer/faster one).

Re:Were the users randomized?

[aardvarkjoe]

My first thought, as an IBM employee, is that the users that moved to Mac are probably the ones smart enough to know that calling the IBM helpdesk is utterly pointless.

There is something to that...

[MindPrison]

...my neighbor had a PC, shes 70 years old.

I supported her for several months on a weekly basis because of her virus woes and constant update and install issues. I was noticing that her computer was getting old and dated, and suggested for her to get a new computer. I suggested an iMac. (And interestingly enough, Im an Apple hater, I really hate macs!).

Why did I then suggest her one of those overpriced thingies? The darn thing cost her 2500 USD and didnt even come with an SSD in 2016. But the thing was, I knew she wouldnt get more worms and viruses...because Mac is like 10 percent of the worlds PC sales, and the viruses usually dont survive that far when the percentage of ownership is that low, so I thought...that ought to get her off my support case...

The only thing she ever contacted me about after that, was the bluetooth keyboard running out of battery juice after 3 months of not being plugged in, we fixed that and she was back to happy.

See the picture here? PC and old people = trouble because of the numerous technical issues, updates, plugins, viruses, worms etc...with her Apple...all she had to do is ...well..use the damn thing.

Me? I still prefer PC, and I still hate the Apple company with a passion...but at least they got their audience right, idiots that cant figure out the slightest thing, and they pay the premium for it too!

Why?

[SuperKendall]

Why call bullshit? Macs generally require less user intervention to run, and don't have automatic updates to screw things up at inopportune times. Program installation and removal is generally much simpler.

The hardware is also of much better quality than most "enterprise" computer builds, so it would last a lot longer and not have glitches...

The only people who doubt this story are those that have never used both Windows and Mac computers extensively.

Re:Why?

[Oswald McWeany]

If 40% of his windows machines needed help desk support then his organization is doing something seriously wrong.

Re:Why?

[NatasRevol]

The only people who doubt this story are those that have never used both Windows and Mac computers extensively.

I'd put one caveat.

*supported Win & Mac extensively.

I worked at a newspaper. We were 2/3 Mac, 1/3 Win. Windows users were at least half the support time, if not more.

Re:Why?

[CrashNBrn]

We have both in our household. I've bought two laptops ($450 HP, used for ~4 years; $750 lenovo), replaced my desktop monitor ($200), upgraded the desktop CPU ($150), upgraded the desktop GPU ($150), replaced the desktop motherboard ($100), added more harddrives ($225)...Totalling $2025.

Yep still cost less than the wife's 2007-2008 macBook Pro ~$2300.
Within 2 years, the MacPro's headphone line went out. According to Apple, fixing that requires... wait for it... a new motherboard: $500. Anectdotal of course, but three different members of the family have taken Macs in for inspection|repair, and every damned time are told "motherboard" $500+ to fix. In one case all that was *actually* required was a new power supply.

Re:Why?

[__aaclcg7560]

What about when it's dumb users who can't even turn the systems / displays on or other stuff like can't work the web and need to call to get basic help?

When I worked at the Google IT help desk, I had to talk a recent computer scientist graduate student through the process of turning on his own workstation since no one was standing around to turn it on for him like they do at the university computer labs.

Well done

[JustNiz]

I'm glad he made a point of saying Windows PCs rather than just PCs, as the world in general tends to do.
I've always hated Windows and found it far more awkward, unfriendly and non-intuitive to use than literally any other OS I've ever tried (which after 35 years of software development is a LOT). Windows started out as a messy compromise (anyone else remember yield()? )and has only gotten worse over time. It truly boggles my mind how most corporates and their IT departments still continue to push its use over other OS's.

Hoooo boy

[ilsaloving]

*looks at post*

Get your asbestos underwear! Get your asbestos underwear here folks! Don't get into a flamewar without being prepared!

or maybe...

[friedman101]

Macs are mostly given to software devs and graphic artists who are much less likely to do stupid things with their machine than your average MBA Powerpoint jockey?

Re:How much of that is entirely Microsoft's fault

[NatasRevol]

Who else's fault would it be that Windows requires 3x more support?

Just think if apple had better hardware how dead

[Joe_Dragon]

Just think if apple had better hardware how dead windows can be.

But right now they have 3-4 year old hardware at new hardware pricing.

No real workstation
No power desktop
No gaming desktop

Well the new mac pro kind of fits the listed rolls but in a poor way with lot's of ext stuff needed to make it full.

No real servers or even a good mini server.

No tough book laptop

No all in desktop with easy to swap hdd's and ram.

No laptop with more then a few ports

No gaming laptop

No Mobile workstation laptop with workstation video and or high end cpus.

No dual cpu workstation.

No os rollback on new hardware.

Not a fair comparison

[elcheesmo]

Having worked at IBM before, there was a lot of legacy software than ran on PC which would often stop working because of a problem with a remote server. The only way to report such problems would be by calling the help desk. It wouldn't matter whether it was a problem with Windows, or whether you knew exactly what the problem was. It all had to be reported through the help desk.

I imagine that if you use a Mac then it means you don't need to run any of the legacy software. And if you don't need to run the legacy software, there's no reason to ever call the help desk.

I would believe if there were fewer hardware-related help desk calls with the Mac, but I have a hard time believing that PCs require more help desk calls simply because Windows/PCs sucks.

Re:How much of that is entirely Microsoft's fault

[ShanghaiBill]

Who else's fault would it be that Windows requires 3x more support?

TFA does NOT say that Windows requires 3x more support. It claims that the TCO is three times higher. That is not the same thing.

Let's do the math:
I buy a low end Mac for $1000 and you buy a low end Win-PC for $500.
I need $500 worth of support from the Genius Bar, bringing my TCO to $1500.
If your TCO is three times that, then it is $4500, so you needed $4000 worth of support.
That is EIGHT TIMES as much.

Re:My personal Mac anecdote

[ahabswhale]

Wow, your anecdotal experience from 13 years ago is so relevant today...

No surprise here. This is not really news.

[Qbertino]

This isn't really news. OS X is a good working unix, it is built and controlled by the same people who build the hardware. It's basically fully integrated into the hardware. It has always had a very clear separation of user and system space and Macs aren't plagued by bloat and shovelware.

You get a mac unpack it, start it and it works. That hasn't changed in decades and holds true to this very day. Not so with a PC. Just watching my colleague hassling with Windows 10 and Office365 at my shop has me stand in amazement over the eternal shittyness of the MS provided solutions that apparently holds to this very day as it did in the Windows ME days. Even today you can't get a basic Groupware from them up and running without a total messy frustration ensuing.

I remember thinking about the brand-new first ever iMac and noticing that you could get one, start it, and didn't even need to adjust the CRT monitor or resolution. A godsend for ordinary users and maintenance personnel. That type of integration and result oriented setup was lightyears ahead of any ugly clunky Windows box. And it still is.

That they are cheaper in maintenance is blatantly obvious IMHO.

A windows PC that doesn't suck is still a rare thing. Probably these surface books from MS themselves are what comes closest to a MacBook.

I've said it in the 90ies and it holds true to this very day: In terms of basic system integrity Windows combines all the disadvantages of Linux with all the disadvantages of a Mac. The only reason ever to get Windows was and still is to run programms on it that wouldn't run anywhere else. And those are pirated software, Games or some obscure CAD program for engineers that don't know anything other than Windows.

That's why Google is moving into their Groupware and productivity space and Chromebooks, as the poor mans mac, are taking over.
Not that I like the prospect of Big Google watching everything, but anything that removes MSes abysmal model from the body public is a good deed. It's not that MS would be any better. Only with Google at least it works and you don't have to pay for it.

My 2 cents.

3rd party drivers

[perpenso]

Who else's fault would it be that Windows requires 3x more support?

The vendors who supply the 3rd party drivers.

Macs are more reliable/require less support because there is very little a corporation or end user can add to it, to customize it beyond built-to-order. I've been building my own PC desktop machines for decades and I have had very few problems because I tend to carefully select the parts and use "better" rather than "less expensive" parts. However my PCs are sort of anomalies in this respect. When helping friends and family "debug" their PC problems the BSOD was usually coming from a 3rd party driver, from a second tier low cost vendor. By maintaining a higher degree of control Apple is less susceptible to such problems.

The secondary benefit of my BYO approach is that I have had very few Linux compatibility problems over the decades.

Oh, and Windows has been running natively (dual boot) very reliably on my Mac laptops for many years now.

Re:3rd party drivers

[macs4all]

Macs are more reliable/require less support because there is very little a corporation or end user can add to it, to customize it beyond built-to-order.

And just HOW many people need to do that in a typical Office environment?

Honestly, unless you are talking high-end Game development, very high-end Data Aquisition, or a few other highly-specialized trades, there is virtually no reason to need non-typical computing hardware.

Re:easily made up in peripherals.

[Just Some Guy]

if things ever get too hairy for a dell, your restore process is entirely automated in windows or linux. restoring a mac is nothing short of corporate witchcraft.

To backup: buy a Synology NAS. Enable the Time Machine service. Configure your Macs to back up to it. Voila, done.

To restore from scratch: hold down Command-R when booting a Mac. Tell it to restore from Time Machine. Wait an hour. Voila, done.

IT causes the helpdesk requests for Windows PCs

[laughingskeptic]

I am sure the same is true at my company. The IT department locks down and otherwise messes with the Windows PCs ... because they can. This impulse to control leads directly to IT support tickets. They don't lock down the Macs because they are not tied into the domain like the PCs are. Most Windows users in my company have to put in a help desk ticket to get new software, update existing software or even add the new printer that IT just installed down the hallway. This is not true for the Mac users. The difference in the way the IT department treats Macs and PCs is the source of the difference in the number of tickets per device-type not the device-types themselves.

In reality, hours...

[SuperKendall]

Five minutes to put in a card.

One hour plus to decide which card to buy that will work best with your system and/or local network (and by one hour, I really mean "an entire evening of reading technical reviews" if I'm being realistic).

One to five hours to fix stupid driver issues that arise because of said new card that took only five minutes to put in... for every major OS update.

Sorry man but you can't get that kind of lie past me, I used to upgrade Windows systems also. I got off that damn train so that I could live life, and spend time doing things WITH computers instead of TO them.

And as for the $500 logic board upgrade - that's after three years, otherwise it's free. Or they might just give you a new system instead.

You keep popping cards in there and rooting through your OS though like some kind of animal, if you enjoy it more power to you.