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Should Journalists Ignore Some Leaked Emails? (backchannel.com)

Tuesday Lawrence Lessig issued a comment about a leaked email which showed complaints about his smugness from a Clinton campaign staffer: "I'm a big believer in leaks for the public interest... But I can't for the life of me see the public good in a leak like this..." Now mirandakatz shares an article by tech journalist Steven Levy arguing that instead, "The press is mining the dirty work of Russian hackers for gossipy inside-beltway accounts." This is perfectly legal. As long as journalists don't do the stealing themselves, they are solidly allowed to publish what thieves expose, especially if, as in this case, the contents are available to all... [But] is the exploitation of stolen personal emails a moral act? By diving into this corpus to expose anything unseemly or embarrassing, reporters may be, however unwillingly, participating in a scheme by a foreign power to mess with our election...

As a 'good' journalist, I know that I'm supposed to cheer on the availability of information... But it's difficult to argue that these discoveries were unearthed by reporters for the sake of public good...

He's sympathetic to the idea that minutiae from campaigns lets journalists "examine the failings of 'business as usual'," but "it would be so much nicer if some disgruntled colleague of Podesta's was providing information to reporters, rather than Vladimir Putin using them as stooges to undermine our democracy." He ultimately asks, "is it moral to amplify anything that's already exposed on the internet, even if the exposers are lawbreakers with an agenda?"

30 of 361 comments (clear)

  1. Snowden also did something illegal by NotInHere · · Score: 4, Interesting

    also, look at watergate. Journalists both used that content.

    1. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Pentagon Papers

      New York Times Co. v. United States, 403 U.S. 713 (1971), was a landmark decision by the United States Supreme Court on the First Amendment. The ruling made it possible for the New York Times and Washington Post newspapers to publish the then-classified Pentagon Papers without risk of government censorship or punishment.

    2. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by Xenographic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, the GOP offices have been firebombed ("Nazi republicans get out"). Someone here on Slashdot was calling that a "Reichstag fire" (yeah, umm, so where are the riots over it? oh, right... the GOP doesn't stage those). People on the Democratic payroll (MoveOn, specifically) were responsible for staging the violence at Trump rallies and then blamed Sanders supporters for it. Oh, and there was a mysterious DC "robbery" (where nothing was taken) with the guy shot twice in the back in the middle of the night. Who was an insider that may have been responsible for some leaks. Don't worry! Fact checkers "debunked" that due to there being "no evidence" on the same day (investigate? why?). The killer has not been caught.

      But we can ignore that because Russia? If Putin wanted to influence the elections, it's pretty clear that he could've just donated to the Clinton foundation like Qatar, Saudi Arabia and everyone else.

    3. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      You've lost track of the story, which is about campaign emails stolen from the DNC and Clinton's campaign manager. This isn't about State Department emails sent and received during Clinton's time as Secretary. The emails in question were not part of the public record, and not subject to FOIA.

    4. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Just because someone (HRC) doesn't/didn't want them to be part of public record and used a personal account to hide them doesn't mean they shouldn't be.

      Hello? Why are you mixing up clinton's email server with messages from the DNC to which clinton was not even a party?
      DNC email is not part of the public record.
      There have been no "leaks" from clinton's email server.

      I swear this mixing and matching of half-understood non-scandals practically defines the internet discussion about clinton. Its disheartening how much bullshit is out there and even worse, how often it gets upmodded.

    5. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Underlings on both sides have been caught doing nasty things. If you don't want to sound like a biased douche, present both.

    6. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, show us the GOP funding people to cause riots at political rallies and we will. Until then, we have the DNC and Clinton's campaign directly paying people who shut down Trump's Chicago rally. One woman paid 11 days by Clinton's campaign before that rally.

      So both are equally as bad as each other, if you ignore that the DNC itself is funding things and the GOP isn't. You also have to ignore that no Clinton rallies have been cancelled, but Trump rallies have been by paid protesters who attempted to frame Sanders.

      Typical liberal "both sides are equally as bad" when caught red handed and with overwhelming evidence that they are not equally as bad.

    7. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The irony is that if Hillary actually did plot and commit a really sinister conspiracy, it would probably got lost among all the fake ones.

      Re scene in ET where the alien hides among stuffed animals.

    8. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Honestly, if Hillary is so god damn good at rigging massive elections, murdering dozens of people, running vast criminal empires, all without anything but loony toon fringe conspiracies pointing a finger at her, she deserves to be president.

      Hell, even Nixon wasn't good enough to pull that off.

      In all seriousness it's amusing that people have been trying to destroy her and Bill for 30 years, and the fact that the only scandals people can find are flimsy and tiny as hell, or outright faked moon landing level of conspiracy theories really does show shes actually pretty darn clean.

    9. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by Cyberax · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you know that people on the Democratic payroll also initiated a crowdfunding campaign to replace the firebombed office in NC? Do you know that the target for this campaign had been reached in just 40 minutes?

      No? I guessed so.

    10. Re:Snowden also did something illegal by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And how do you think the media would have reacted if the Trump campaign did something like this to elicit a violent response?

      They covered it, which is why you're being obtuse and this entire "scandal" is an exercise in BS designed to muddy the waters and give cover to Trump by creating a false "both sides" narrative.

      There is precisely one side, one side, in this discussion where the CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT has SUPPORTED VIOLENCE ON HIS BEHALF. You know that. O'Keefe knows that. It's precisely why most of us are so fearful he might become President. It's unheard of in modern political history for a Presidential candidate to incite violence on his behalf.

      And while he's constrained - a little - by the law right now, the fact he's willing to support violence by his supporters means we have good reason to believe that - if Trump wins - there will be no fair elections in 2020. Because as President he can and probably will prevent any legal consequences for those who threaten and deal out violence against his enemies.

      Hillary Clinton has not in any way endorsed violence. And frankly, the best Trump's supporters can do to muddy the water is find some low level operative who says he might hypothetically support an operation designed to expose the fact that Trump's supporters are violent.

      So with respect, stop pretending you're arguing any legitimate point here. You're not. You're trying to normalize violence in an election. You need to ask yourself if you're going to continue to do so, or whether you have the guys to re-evaluate what you've been calling for.

      Carry on down this path, and you, and America, are in serious danger.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  2. Ignore them only if it hurts your political master by ArtemaOne · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If it is the bad guy instead, go for it, expose them! But it seems we already do this.

  3. Messenger by phrobot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Would journalists have ignored Nixon's crimes if Deep Throat was a Russian?

    1. Re:Messenger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Would journalists have ignored Nixon's crimes if Deep Throat was a Russian?

      Or better yet, would journalists have ignored Deep Throat's revelations if the Nixon administration had claimed that he was a tool of the Soviets?

  4. Palin was treated differently. by Salo2112 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These was none of this navel gazing when Sarah Palin's emails were stolen. In fact, the press crowdsourced reading them in their search for dirt on her. Why would this be any different for Hillary Clint..... Oh, party affiliation. Forgot. Carry on, then.

    1. Re:Palin was treated differently. by jordanjay29 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Stolen is an interesting term for a routine publication of a former governor's communications.

  5. Yes. by Tanktalus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As long as what they report on is true and unbiased, yes. I don't care if it's on the HRC campaign or the Trump campaign, as long as it is objectively true. I would rather the politicians were honest and transparent, and if it takes a foreign power to force it, I have a hard time complaining.

    Leave the pontificating to the pundits. Journalists should merely report the truth.

    And, no, I don't care for Hillary "embarrassing" herself. That may be truthful, but it's not any more germane to the discussion than Trump embarrassing himself (even though that gets reported on as well on a regular basis - we don't need Russian interference to see it). The juicy bits, such as it were, would be any case of unethical and/or illegal behaviour. I haven't really followed the leaks, so I don't know if there is any such bits in there. Ideally, all candidates would behave in perfectly ethical manners, but few do. I doubt HRC or Trump do, and that's what should be reported on.

    The standard should be "truth" and not "where it comes from." We reserve that standard for the justice system where unethical police officers could get away with illegal behaviour to make a case without those limits.

  6. Yes, selecting the US president isn't "gossip" by raymorris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Agreed. The article tries to cast this is "for gossip". No. Kim Kardashian's emails would be gossip. An inside look at the actions of the US Secretary of State, who is running for President, is far more important than mere gossip. As is bringing to public scrutiny the process used to select the candidates. The purpose of the DNC is to put people in charge of running a superpower nation, and to strongly influence the policies of the United States. How that's done, by whom, for what reasons and what the back room deals are is all information of importance to The People.

    1. Re:Yes, selecting the US president isn't "gossip" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not only that, email isn't "a private record."

      The company I work for made it very clear that we should not treat email as anything private, that anything we say in email should be considered being on the public record.

      Not because they were afraid of being hacked, but because emails, as "written documents," can be subjected to subpoenas.

      If you're using your work email account to "gossip" you're doing it wrong. Since all the emails leaked so far have been used by Clinton campaign staffers for Clinton's campaign, they're all fair to report on.

    2. Re:Yes, selecting the US president isn't "gossip" by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Those parts of the emails are valid to report on. Stuff like a staffer thinking Lessig is smug is not valid to report on. It's like the diplomatic cable leaks a few years ago -- a few of them were important revelations in the public interest, and most of them were unimportant gossipy personal stuff that unnecessarily strained all sorts of international relationships. Good reporters report on the part that matters, bad reporters just try to find something salacious to poke a bee hive.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    3. Re:Yes, selecting the US president isn't "gossip" by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure... except when a foreign power uses dirty tricks to try to control the outcome of an election.

      Exposing the truth is not a "dirty trick".

    4. Re:Yes, selecting the US president isn't "gossip" by DaHat · · Score: 3, Informative

      I actually think it goes beyond that.

      Sure, 2FA or never sending something in an email you don't want the other guys lawyer holding up in court... or getting hacked and put on on Wikileaks is certainly one way... though some would say this strays into victim blaming ala a common response to #TheFappening (ie "if they didn't want their nude photos on the internet, they shouldn't have taken them or saved them to such insecure locations!")

      But consider the latest James O'Keefe videos, which appear to show rather well placed democrat operatives talking about their knowledge of wide-scale voter fraud, as well as seeming to admit to helping to orchestrate violence at the rival's rally's.

      Ignoring for the moment the emails... why is it that right-leaning groups are able to get left-leaning operatives on tape, admitting pretty bad things?

      Why is it that left-leaning groups do not seem as able to get right-leaning operatives on tape, admitting pretty bad things?

      Oh sure, you might have the occasional untoward comment (take the Trump tape), but oh so rarely to the same extent, and then mostly of a 'macaca' like moment.

      If we assume that folks on both sides are up to just the same sort of things, to what should we attribute the reason?

      1. Left leaners more willing to brag about their shenanigans?
      2. Right leaners less willing to brag about their shenanigans?
      3. Left leaners less good at tricking right leaners into spilling their secrets?
      4. Right leaners more good at tricking left leaners into spilling their secrets?
      5. Left leaners less good at editing of video to make the speaker look bad?
      6. Right leaners more good at editing of video to make the speaker look bad?

      Why is it we usually only see these things going in one direction?

    5. Re:Yes, selecting the US president isn't "gossip" by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Those parts of the emails are valid to report on. Stuff like a staffer thinking Lessig is smug is not valid to report on.

      Who determines what is "valid" to report on?

      Good reporters report on the part that matters, bad reporters just try to find something salacious to poke a bee hive.

      Yeah, except "the part that matters" is never some objective category valid for all places, times, and people. This site used to have a tagline about "stuff that matters," but the reality is that a lot of the stuff posted here didn't "matter" to the vast majority of people in the world. Meanwhile, a lot of stuff that "matters" to the vast majority of the world wouldn't be of interest to a significant portion of the audience here (e.g., sports, celebrity gossip).

      Here's the reality of journalism -- the "news" is mostly about selling stuff, NOT informing people. Yes, "good journalists" who want to be respected generally tend to focus on certain topics and ignore others, but they are conscious of the "bottom line" like everyone else. And if some reporter claims to be completely oblivious to stuff like that, you can darn well bet their editor isn't.

      So, the question is rarely "Is this too salacious to be 'legitimate' news, or does it 'matter'?" The question is usually, "We know that this will get a lot of clicks/sell a lot of ads/papers/whatever. But will it piss off our readership or advertisers if we do so?" Somewhere down the list, far below that set of concerns about revenue, maintaining readers and advertisers, etc., are things like, "Is this 'respectable journalism'?" Or, "Does this matter?"

      Because, let's be honest here -- even if something appears to be "too salacious" to be a story, if it gets caught up by SOME major media source, eventually most of the other major media will start reporting on it. You don't want to be the newspaper or whatever who steps "out of line" and starts looking like a cheap tabloid, but as long as everybody else is writing about it, it's gonna be fair game.

      What really "matters"? Human life? Well, most Americans (even educated liberal well-meaning and loving ones) don't really have much interest in African news. I mean, some say they do -- but they really don't care about reading about that stuff every day, even if every day is pretty much a bad day for millions of people in Africa.

      Meanwhile, is the Queen of England having another great-grandchild?!? Let's devote weeks of news for that. Does that "matter"? I don't mean to pick on the royals -- any celebrity gossip will do. Or what about sports? Does that really "matter"? It's certainly not going to have as much of an impact as that genocidal African dictator, but editors know that there are loads of people who basically pull the "sports section" out a newspaper (or do the equivalent online) and ignore most of the rest.

      But to bring this back to the current political stuff and scandals, we basically end up in a situation where fans of politician A think stuff "doesn't matter" and publishing it is "salacious" but people who don't like politician A definitely think it matters. To many fans of Bill Clinton, the various scandals about possible affairs and interns "didn't matter" compared to his leadership capabilities as President. To some Trump fans, clearly his views on women also "don't matter" to the evaluation of his leadership abilities. (I'm not equating these two people or their actions by any means, just noting similar reactions I've noted among fans.)

      To those fans, publishing a bunch of stories about such stuff is just "salacious" and yellow journalism, which is targeting stuff that should be irrelevant to their political life. To others, this "matters" deeply and it's irresponsible NOT to publish something that tells you something about their "character."

      Anyhow, getting to TFA, the question of where information came from is WAY down the list, far below other ethical concerns about jour

  7. Russia? You sure about that? by mschuyler · · Score: 3, Interesting

    There surely are a lot of people determined to pin this stuff on Russia and claim interference, but the newest would suggest it was our own guy: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/...

    --
    How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
  8. After watching by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

    After watching people (mostly liberal) defend leaks for nearly a generation, and now see a lot of them switching sides when the leak exposes a person on 'their side'.......they're all a bunch of dirty hypocrites.

    Yes, I'm talking about you, dear reader who picks a 'team,' whether R or D. YOU are what is wrong with America. The leaks will keep coming, and you'll see how dirty your side really is.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  9. it is as moral as police using informers by superwiz · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If a cop uses shady characters as informers or a prosecutor reduces someone's charges in exchange for a testimony, then that too serves an agenda of a criminal. But its ultimate goal is to unearth the truth about a bigger fish which is engage in shady practices. And in the current legal regime it is considered moral and justified. The same standard has to apply to the journalists. If they are exposing the criminality in the camp of the ruling party's candidate's campaign, then they are doing a public service even if the source is shady and is doing the releasing of the information in the hopes of improving the chances of an opposition candidate.

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
  10. Re:Scientists have proven by bmo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To date, the Clinton campaign has not once attacked the veracity of the emails.

    Not. Even. Once.

    They have bobbed, weaved, prevaricated, projected, and otherwise produced non-sequitur "answers" to the questions about the content. But not once have they said "well, that one there, that's false, we never said that." Instead we get tall tales of Russians hacking the DNC -with no evidence - just the Clinton campaign's say-so.

    All attacks are upon the messenger(s) and not the facts. And it's amazing how these emails match up with reality.

    That tells me a lot. It tells me that the emails are real, and that once Hillary assumes office, the heat is not going to be off. [grumpy cat]Good[/grumpy cat].

    Karma is a bitch.

    --
    BMO

  11. Re:Scientists have proven by bongey · · Score: 5, Informative

    Any programmer with python can EASILY VERIFY THEY ARE REAL. http://dailycaller.com/2016/10...

  12. Re:Scientists have proven by Xenographic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually, I saw one on the news saying they'd seen some of their emails up there and then they waffled about non-specific "inaccuracies." They clearly said it was their email, but they weren't giving any specifics about what they believed was inaccurate.

    So that tells me the DNC email was really leaked. I'd say it's a time to "trust but verify"--that is, don't blindly trust anything you read, but corroborate it yourself with other evidence.

  13. The other meaning of Orwellian by poity · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "[...]The argument that to tell the truth would be ‘inopportune’ or would ‘play into the hands of’ somebody or other is felt to be unanswerable, and few people are bothered by the prospect of the lies which they condone getting out of the newspapers and into the history books." -George Orwell, The Prevention of Literature

    The truth remains the truth, even if unsavory people are beneficiaries of it.

    --
    your thin skin doesn't make me a troll