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Tesla Unveils Residential 'Solar Roof' With Updated Battery Storage System (theverge.com)
Tesla founder and CEO Elon Musk today unveiled the "residential roof" -- pegged as a roofing replacement -- with solar energy gathering powers. Unlike other solar systems which must be mounted on top of a traditional roof, these new panels are actually integrated within glass roof tiles, replacing a home's roof, Musk said. And because they're made of glass, Musk says they will last "quasi indefinitely," even in harsh conditions where snow and ice make short work of traditional asphalt shingles. Musk said that 50 years of lifespan should be no problem, and they offer efficiency that is 98 percent as good as a traditional, ugly photovoltaic panel. From a report on The Verge: There are a number of different versions of solar panels: Textured Glass Tile, Slate Glass Tile, Tuscan Glass Tile, and Smooth Glass Tile. Tesla says its glass tiles are much more durable than conventional roof tile -- something that's important in areas with risk of hail.The products are a "joint collaboration" between SolarCity and Tesla, according to SolarCity CEO Lyndon Rive. Tesla is attempting to acquire SolarCity for $2.6 billion and shareholders of both companies will vote on the proposed acquisition in the middle of November. The Powerwall 2 can store 14 kWh of energy, with a 5 kW continuous power draw, and 7 kW peak. The battery is warranted for unlimited power cycles for up to 10 years. It can be floor or wall mounted, inside or outside. It can be used for load shifting or back-up power. Musk says there are three parts to the solar energy solution: generation (solar panels), storage (batteries), and transportation (electric cars). Musk's plan is to sell all three of those products through Tesla.
TENNIS BALL-SIZED HAIL EXPECTED. Take Cover Now (and not under a glass roof, you dingus).
Ideas are a dime a dozen. Without any return there's no motivation for capital to pay for development into the products that are actually valuable. Don't get me wrong, I support open source as much as the next guy but paid innovation has an important roll to fill for all the people out there who are rich and want to stay that way while still contributing. We're not in the Star Trek universe yet.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
"quasi indefinitely," even in harsh conditions where snow and ice make short work of traditional asphalt shingles. Musk said that 50 years of lifespan should be no problem
Europe has buildings with 1000 year old roofs, and it is somehow a little bit amusing to hear 50 years referred to as "quasi infinite".
In other words, they've improved it from storing $1 worth of electricity to $1.40. But you still need to cycle it many thousands of times with FREE electricity before it breaks even.
A quick search shows that the average household electricity usage is about 10K kWh per year (900-ish per month), ranging from 14K in Louisiana to 6K in Hawaii.
Using your numbers, that would be roughly $1000/yr. The powerwall costs roughly $7000 installed with inverter and other extras, or you can lease it for 9 years for $5,000 which includes installation, a maintenance agreement, the electrical inverter and control systems.
Tesla is offering a ten year warranty on the batteries, and there's some discussion about how a battery can last for 3650 cycles (mostly because the 14K powerwall is a 20K battery pack that's discharged much more shallowly than if it was an actual 14K battery, and other tricks).
The total cost comes out to about 0.15/kWh.
"Tentative Conclusion: The battery is right on the verge of being cost effective to buy across most of the US for day/night arbitrage. And it’s even more valuable if outages come at a high economic cost."
I hear that oil companies really know how to grease palms...
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
I think lead acid isn't terrible if you have the space, but really to get the most life out of a lead acid battery you have to look at max discharge as about 60% even using absorbed glass mat (AGM) batteries to get anything like long life cycles.
So your 1 kWh battery is only really useful for about 400 Wh which means you need 35 of them.
But it's more complicated than that, as you'd be better off driving an inverter at 48v and using something like 6v golf cart type batteries arranged in series/parallel strings to get to 48v and probably want some kind of more sophisticated charging/monitoring system to keep track of individual batteries and be able to isolate 48v groups if a unit failed. Usually more individual batteries gets you higher aggregate discharge rates since you pull less from any one battery.
I don't think it's impossible to built a decent setup, but doing it right will end up being more expensive than you'd think and will end up sucking a ton of space.
I think the half assed compromise is probably 4x 8D AGM 12v batteries in a 24v series/parallel combination, which would get you close to 14 kWh. But the batteries alone are $2k and then the inverter more yet.
I think the PowerWall would be most useful with a smart panel that allowed individual circuits to be prioritized in various ways when running off battery power to maximize run time.
Like maybe the lights should be always on, the fridge given a high priority, the dishwasher not on, some circuits which could be cycled off to meet some other intermittent circuit's demand for power, and what order circuits could be killed off to maintain run time for the highest priority circuits.
Of course, most houses aren't wired that sane. Even in parts of my house where new circuits were run from a new panel during remodeling, electricians are prone to tapping whatever's close for power. I demanded a 20A dedicated circuit for the entertainment center, but the junior guy didn't get the dedicated message and tapped it for two ceiling lights and a hallway outlet.
I don't know how totally new construction is done, but I'm guessing its not done in a completely structured way except where code dictates dedicated circuits. But it would be great if there were individual circuits for lights by room, outlets by room, and then various specialty circuits for fridge or other items that should be addressed individually.
"Do it because Musk said so, even though he fails at everything he does"
ROFL, what planet are you on!?!?!?!
"As of June 2016, he has an estimated net worth of US$11.5 billion, making him the 83rd wealthiest person in the world.[22]"
I wish I could fail that bad!
Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
I see one downside to this, which is heat. Counter intuitively, solar panels are less efficient the warmer they get. That is why solar panel installers always leave an air gap between panels and a roof, to allow airflow under the panels to help cool them. An air gap of 3-5" is recommended. When the panels (in the form of roofing tiles) are laid directly on the roof, not only is 50% of the surface area for cooling lost, but the heat of the attic is also warming them from the below. As anyone who has been on a hot roof in summer knows, roofing shingles get incredibly hot.
This may be offset somewhat by the fact that these shingle style PV cells will cover more surface area of a roof than normal solar panels. However it is definitely a factor, and thus a given square footage of these new tiles cannot be as efficient as the same area of standard PV panels for the heat efficiency factor alone.
Better known as 318230.
By their very nature, solar panels are plates of laminated glass or plastic reinforced with wires running through them.
I.e. It's reinforced the same way bulletproof glass is.
Where conventional tiles shatter into pieces, these tiles merely crack and dent.
And the best part is, each solar plate being an array of parallelly connected cells - it will still function both as a roof tile and as a solar cell.
Whereas a conventional tile would at that point be useful only as gravel substitute.
Guy runs a company which puts rockets into space. Let's give him SOME benefit of the doubt on account of the engineering skills of his employees.
You know... let's assume that they are not exactly TOTAL fuckups.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Sure, if you want cheap steel roofing. But he seems to be targetting upscale customers with this - just look at what he compares the tile's toughness to: terra cotta, clay, and slate roofing tiles. I'd bet good money that anyone who would consider *any* of those roofing options would be horrified at the suggestion of steel. Even copper is probably not that appealing to them.
And hey, it makes sense - just like with automobiles, PCs, cell phones, etc., you target the first gen products at the wealthy. Hopefully within a decade or so we'll we'll see some nice PV propanel roofing that makes better sense for the middle class.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.