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White House, 35 States To Boost Electric Vehicle Charging Stations (cnbc.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: The White House said on Thursday it will establish 48 national electric-vehicle (EV) charging networks on nearly 25,000 miles of highways in 35 U.S. states. The Obama administration said 28 states, utilities and vehicle manufactures, including General Motors, BMW and Nissan Motor, and EV charging firms have agreed to work together to jump-start the additional charging stations. The corridors were required to be established by December under a 2015 highway law. The White House said 24 state and local governments have agreed to buy hundreds of additional electric vehicles for government fleets and add new EV charging stations. California will buy at least 150 zero-emission vehicles and provide EV charging at a minimum of 5 percent of state-owned parking spaces by 2020. The city of Atlanta will add 300 charging stations at Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport by the end of 2017. Los Angeles agreed to nearly triple the city's current plug-in electric fleet to 555 vehicles from about 200 by the end of 2017. Of those, 200 will be for the police department. The city is also adding another 500 stations by 2017. One hurdle to the mass adoption of EVs has been the difficulty in finding places to recharge vehicles. In July, the White House said it was expanding a federal loan guarantee program to include companies building EV charging stations. The U.S. Energy Department said in July that charging facilities are now an eligible technology for the program that can provide up to $4.5 billion in loan guarantees.
How about putting more of that money into those 'shovel-ready' infrastructure projects you were talking about all those years ago.
Nice to know we will have EV charging stations so that we can drive off the edge of a bridge that collapsed for lack of infrastructure funding.
We are now seeing affordable >200 mile range cars entering the market, like the Zoe and Bolt. As long as charger installs keep up a lot more people should be able to go 100% electric.
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SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Don't you know all the new marketing rage?
Assembled in the USA [with globally sourced parts].
(this is a joke):
http://greenwei.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/portable_generator-300x236.jpg
Another key piece to this will be ensuring the charging is low-cost no cost.
Posted anonymously since truth generally gets rated down.
You're FULL OF SHIT, says this apparently truthful comment
Disposing of batteries has been going on for decades, nothing new.
And combustion with exhaust that hauls itself is the worst way of converting energy, and far worse at cleaning out toxic carcinogenic chemicals. Not to mention that those chemicals are polluting right where your lungs are.
Every week I drive by multiple EV charging stations and each time I see at least one EV vehicle parked there without the cable to the charger connected to the vehicle. I've even seen EV vehicles parallel parked in non-parallel parking EV stations, thus occupying 3 parking spots without even charging the vehicle.
If the vehicle is NOT charging, why do they get special privilages to park in reserved parking spaces without complying with requirments of reserved parking spaces? It would be no different than if gas powered vehicles parked in EV charging spots and were not charging. Same as it would be no different if non-handicapped people parked in a handicapped spot.
The reserved EV spots should be in the WORST places in a parking lot instead of in the best, front, nearest locations where the handicapped spots are.
The police have been unwilling to cite these vehicles even though the spaces are in public property parking lots.
I don't know, but you can be sure the energy dispensed through them will not come from the Middle East.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
>> White House said on Thursday it will establish 48 national electric-vehicle (EV) charging networks on nearly 25,000 miles of highways in 35 U.S. states
Better hurry up. It's a good bet that whatever crawls into the White House next will spend his or her time dodging civil and criminal lawsuits. "Ain't nobody gonna have time for your hipster charging stations!"
lithium ion batteries are some of the most easily recycled products and actually profitable to do so, unlike most other recycling
mining lithium is... not a pretty process, to put it lightly, but neither is literally anything about drilling, transporting, or refining oil, and it's not unlikely we'll be replacing li-ion with something like graphene ultracapacitors which are just made out of carbon in the future
dont delude yourself, nothing is without some sort of cost that is not necessarily measured in dollars, and swallowing the propaganda of large companies seeking to exploit you for free PR is pretty sheeple of you, flouride-chugger
ev downsides: they are not particularly cheap, short range
upsides: good parking
i don't really care if someone is doing this as long as there's room if i DO want to charge, and i've never really seen people hog spaces when there's high demand for charging, only when there's more chargers than demand at that location/time. maybe this will be more of a problem in the future but really, it's handwringing over trifles. 200+ mile range and widely available/standard fast charging, as well as an increase in charging station ubiquity in the first place, will make this not a big deal.
source: am an EV-haver
Your homework:
Google internal combustion engine efficiency.
Google electricity generation efficiency.
Google world power transmission loss.
Come back here with your answers, along with a conclusion, when you're done.
If you want to bias your results to soften your defeat, be sure to only consider coal generation.
For extra credit, research the following:
Vehicle emissions per kWh
Coal power plant emissions per kWh
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
... It will be $50 for a charge,, and you'll still pay the gas tax..
Not just the initial build-out of charging stations (BTW, which charging standard is being used?), but the ongoing cost of maintenance and the actual electricity? TFA is remarkably silent on this, which means I'm paying for it. I don't have an electric car, I don't want to pay for yours.
These plugs by committee are horrible. I'm serious.
How can Tesla fast charge at 120kw on a basic simple looking plug, and these other groups come up with stuff like this
https://longtailpipe.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/P7280018-620.jpg
Is Tesla's plug approach not OK to use (patents etc? ). I've actually driven and used the J1772 plugs - they are freaking SLOW compared to supercharging even though the supercharger plug is simpler. Can someone explain this?
I recently did this calculation.
The amount of CO2 emitted per mile driving an EV assuming electricity is generated from coal is about the same as that from a gasoline car that does 40 mpg. How many cars do 40mpg in a real life mix of driving?
Yes, I ignored transmission losses, but perhaps that isn't fair because obviously gasoline gets from the refinery to your tank via zero energy teleport.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Too many energy companies like the coal PACs will get in the way. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see Big Coal/Big Oil helping with charging stations because what gets burned to spin the turbines to generate the electricity? Sure isn't political hot air. Solar is nice, but the amount of energy it takes to fab the silicon and make the panel is far more than what the panel will get back in its 20 year operating life.
This is what a lead-acid core charge is for... to encourage people to get batteries back to a recycler, and perhaps to cover the aspect of breaking up the batteries, neutralizing the acid, dumping all the lead into a smelter to purify and recast, then make new batteries. Other than the plastic casing, batteries are pretty well recyclable, provided they arrive to the recycle place intact.
I'll do your homework for you when you start to pay me. I gave the argument and someone else easily gave the same exact point. How about YOU do YOUR OWN work and tell us what the benefit is. Dipshits like you are the ones running around demanding everyone do what you say, without facts to back your bullshit claims. GIVE US THE FACTS, or STFU and go sit back in your playpen.
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FACTS MATTER!
If the vehicle is NOT charging, why do they get special privilages to park in reserved parking spaces without complying with requirments of reserved parking spaces?
Pour encourager les autres.
Why add lots of charging stations at airports? When people are leaving their cars for multiple days, they don't need a 240v charger or anything fancy. All that's needed is a simple electrical outlet. Even a Tesla could recharge fully in four days from a standard wall outlet. Put your level-2 charging stations in places where people shop or work and will only be parked for a few hours. Put the level-3 charging stations along highways where people need to charge quickly.
Of course, the need for public charging stations decreases as the range of the cars increases. When the standard range is over 200 miles, most people can do all their non-travel charging at home. You don't need chargers at shopping centers and offices (though I still hear about people with crazy 100+ mile commutes). The real challenge is charging for people who don't have a garage. Focus on putting chargers at apartment complexes and on city streets where residents without garages park. Require charging as part of the permitting process for new apartments (we just did that in my town).
Now ditch coal fired plants and factor in alternative energy sources including solar roofs. That's the real long term solution.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Your leaving out the 2 biggest costs for electric cars.
1) Battery
2) Distribution and transmission.
Also tire/road wear, from cars that are 2* as heavy due to batteries.
These are not energy or carbon footprint neutral.
It is also a big drain on the environment building and maintaining the electric grid. Fixing all the lines that fail, and doubling the capacity to handle transportation will not be cheap, and costs more energy than what is lost in transmission.
Not to mention line workers is one of the 10 deadliest professions in the US. That is not counting all the people who die from accidents involving power lines.
Gasoline is not free to transport, but pipelines are generally safer and carry a much much higher density of power than power-lines. And costs about 1/5 that of power to transport per BTU.
This isn't true. Even ten years ago an 18% efficient panel would be energy positive after about about 1.5 to 2.5 years anywhere in the lower 48 states. The Silevo polycrystalline cells used by Tesla SolarCity in their Solar Roof are between 22 to 24% efficient. Then factor in that you don't need an underlying roof and the embodied energy goes down. Plus increased surface area of a Tesla solar roof vs modules on the roof will mean that the embodied energy is amortized more rapidly as some tiles will be 'working' harder than others in areas that modules never would have been placed.
The only thing that might make this system better is liquid cooling heat exchange or phase change material and/or maybe aerogel blanket beneath. Then the cell efficiency would go way up as the cells are cooled and hot water is generated for the building. Aerogel would insulate the roof. But all of that would add cost, complexity, and liability. In meantime SolarCity must focus on profit and a sustainable business model.
So the only company with a charger with a high enough charge rate that its actually usable for highway travel, the only company with an existing charger infrastructure covering almost all highway routes across the nation, the only company that offers to license all of its patents on this technology to any and all manufacturers who would wish to use it as long as they share in the costs and the ethos of open access, isn't involved in this project?
sigh.
And the worms ate into his brain.
Charging you account while charging your battery.
...the only practical ev worth owning is a luxury car so who gives a shit.
Federal and state support should be SAE J1772 with DC fast charge and force car makers into line. No CHAdeMO, no Tesla proprietary charge, no Mennekes. A single standard. It would also help if all charge points were required by law to accept common forms of payment and not be exclusive to one make or model of vehicle. i.e. charging should be like filling up a gasoline vehicle, not some vertical thing where charge stations only support certain brands of vehicles or discriminate against competitors.
That might inconvenience people with existing vehicles (they'll have to use cables) but the long term benefit is obvious. It removes a format war, risk of verticality / monopolies and increases consumer confidence in electric vehicles.
Other regions in the world like Europe might choose Mennekes with DC fast charge as their single format but the same point applies.
Fuck off and please die with some fucking dignity, Old Man Oil.
I didn't leave out transmission losses, I specifically mentioned them. In the US the energy loss from electrical transmission is about 6.4% overall (down from about 9% in 1960), so not exactly devastating.
The environmental impact of generation is, of course, worst-case with filthy coal. Supplement it with hydro, wind, solar, nuclear and you have a much better scenario. With gasoline, you don't really have a choice - burn some planet-killing hydrocarbons or walk.
As for the battery, that is a problem. But much less than you might think. Li-Ion batteries are ridiculously easy to recycle and as for the weight you must remember that an electric car has very few moving parts. No engine block, no transmission (no pun intended). No need for a carburetter/injection system, clutch, fuel tank, oil sump. All these parts add significant weight to an ICE car as well as being points of failure.
Not sure where you got that 2x weight figure from. Are you aware that a Nissan Leaf weighs 3,354 pounds? A 2012 Toyota Camry weighs 3,190 pounds, or 5% less than the Leaf? That's not cherry picked BTW, just what I could find in limited time. If you can find a reliable source for that double weight claim, please direct me to it.
I fail to see how hazards to line workers comes into this, given that every town in the US already has electricity so far as I know. Perhaps you're referring to the fact that your national grid is extremely poorly maintained and in desperate need of an upgrade *regardless* of whether there is an increase in load due to electric vehicles.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
enough said.
You're intelligent!
Are we talking these shitty-assed commercial charging stations that charge you 50 times the price of the electricity you're using, or will it be something that actually charges based on reality? To get an idea of how bad it is, charging a completely dead Tesla Model S in the Los Angeles area would actually cost a government agency like CalTrans about $6, but if charged at a commercial station like Blink would charge $51.75. Inserting a profiteering middle man into the process is not a good way to encourage adoption of electric vehicles.
The 2012 Camry LE has a 17 gallon gas tank and EPA mileage rating of 25 - 35 mpg, which means it can travel 425 to 595 miles on a single "charge". The Leaf can travel 107 miles on a single charge, and is a smaller car to start with. It would be more fair to compare vehicles similar in size, range and luxuriousness.
Tesla Model S = 4,608 to 4,936 lbs; range = 208 to 315 miles. Cadillac ATS = 3,373 to 3,571 lbs; range 320 - 480 miles. So, roughly 38% heavier (and the Caddy gets even lighter if you take out enough gas to limit its range to that of the Tesla). Certainly not double the weight, but significantly heavier, and proportionally harder on road surfaces.
....It's called TESLA superchargers, and they already exist along all these corridors.
Did you miss the news where Tesla's sales are balooning with 50%, while Audi, Jaguar, BMW, Mercedes etc all are shrinking with 5% to 30%?
The 2012 Camry LE has a 17 gallon gas tank and EPA mileage rating of 25 - 35 mpg, which means it can travel 425 to 595 miles on a single "charge". The Leaf can travel 107 miles on a single charge, and is a smaller car to start with. It would be more fair to compare vehicles similar in size, range and luxuriousness.
My 2016 Leaf is certainly a lot more comfortable and luxurious than any Camry I've ever been in. They're about the same size -- the camry is 15 inches longer, though they have equivalent passenger room. Range... well, of course the camry is going to beat the Leaf on range. Most gas cars will beat nearly all electric cars when it comes to range. There's really no point in trying to compare cars of similar ranges right now. I'd even say doing so is comparing apples and oranges. I mean that because I've found you do have to treat the electric car differently -- it will be a mistake to think it's a drop-in replacement for the ICE car. It's not just a regular car that plug in instead of filled.
I love driving my electric car, but I'm aware of its limitations. Long trips are something I will rarely do with the electric, and doing so will make that trip longer, but it's superior is almost every other case.
I did come off a bit negative on electric cars, I am interested, But I am also not convinced the best path to reducing our environmental footprint is battery cars.
> I didn't leave out transmission losses, I specifically mentioned them.
You underestimate the true losses with that. It takes a lot more energy to build and maintain the grid, which is not capable of supporting more than a small percentage of households having electric cars today. For example is a gas pipeline and gas tanker 100% efficient, because all the oil that goes in comes out? The cost is as good of estimate of the true environmental cost, and it is currently $.05 to generate electric, but $.12 for electric delivered.
Your correct I vastly overstated the weight difference.
>Tesla Model S = 4,608 to 4,936 lbs; range = 208 to 315 miles.
the 85 kwHr even by Tesla's numbers is maxed at 265 miles. The weight you stated is not for that P100D. To be fair the Tesla is 2* the weight of my Chevy Cavalier which also has a 300 mile range. Definitely difficult to compare apples to apples, as they electric does fill a vastly different purpose today.
> whether there is an increase in load due to electric vehicles.
I don't agree. With solar, battery packs, low cost standby generators... Were now able to make self sustainable houses with very little need for a grid, with few downsides. If we don't try and charge cars off the grid, we could be looking to downsize, and at least eliminate the huge interconnects into residential. The mega and always growing electric grid just cannot ever eliminate it's huge footprint, if we keep finding new uses for it.