British Retail Tesco Bank: 20,000 Customers Lose Money (bbc.com)

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British Retail Tesco Bank: 20,000 Customers Lose Money (bbc.com)

Posted by msmash on Monday November 7, 2016 @05:20AM from the bank-hack dept.

An anonymous reader writes:Tesco Bank has halted online payments for current account customers after money was taken from 20,000 accounts. The bank's chief executive Benny Higgins told the BBC he was "very hopeful" customers would be refunded within 24 hours. About 40,000 accounts saw suspicious transactions over the weekend, of which half had money taken, he said. Customers will still be able to use their cards for cash withdrawals, chip and pin payments, and bill payments. The bank is blocking customers from making online payments using their debit card, although transfers between accounts and to other people are still allowed, a spokesperson said. Earlier, the bank confirmed some accounts "have been subject to online criminal activity, in some cases resulting in money being withdrawn fraudulently."

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defining some terms by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-07 05:23 · Score: 2, Informative

For those of us in the US (and others not familiar with UK banking terms), a 'current account' is like a checking account in the US (not a savings account or other account).
1. Re:defining some terms by Applehu+Akbar · 2016-11-07 08:38 · Score: 1
  
  Tesco opened a number of stores in Phoenix a few years ago (under the name Fresh 'n' Easy), before quietly withdrawing after they decided they weren't making enough in the competitive Western grocery market. They didn't do any banking there, though.
Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by alex67500 · 2016-11-07 05:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

That's what you get when you trust a company that deals in low-price groceries and let them run a bank... They are not the same thing.
1. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by Nidi62 · 2016-11-07 05:30 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Yep, much safer to use a reputable bank whose name goes back well over a century, like Wells Fargo. Oh, wait....
  Pretty much all bank these days suck
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
2. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by Coisiche · 2016-11-07 05:37 · Score: 1
  
  And not just them. I think it's a result of some de-regulation act. On the shop retail front, Marks and Spencer have a bank as do the Cooperative. I don't think Asda operate a bank as such but they do offer financial services and probably have an ambition to be a proper bank since others are doing it. I wouldn't be surprised to find Sainsbury offering financial services too. Virgin Money is pretty much a bank from a record label although Branson admittedly branched out into a host of different markets before Virgin also went into finance.
3. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-11-07 05:41 · Score: 2
  
  Credit unions are better. The Wells Fargo branch office in my neighborhood lost a lot of business when a credit union opened up next door. I moved my accounts over when my bankruptcy attorney told me that Wells Fargo would freeze my accounts when they get the legal paperwork.
4. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by Nidi62 · 2016-11-07 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  Credit unions are better. The Wells Fargo branch office in my neighborhood lost a lot of business when a credit union opened up next door. I moved my accounts over when my bankruptcy attorney told me that Wells Fargo would freeze my accounts when they get the legal paperwork.
  Yeah, I'm part of a credit union through my employer (it is no loner solely for employees any more, however) that I have my mortgage through, but my wife didn't want to leave Suntrust when we got married for our day to day banking. But at least credit unions aren't completely soulless like most banks are.
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
5. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by AmiMoJo · 2016-11-07 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  Years ago they were in trouble for emailing people their passwords in plain text. They don't have a good track record on security.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
6. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by TechyImmigrant · 2016-11-07 05:55 · Score: 2
  
  Why are credit unions better? There're still made up of people, just like normal banks. Why does everyone praise credit unions so highly? They never explain their praise...
  ~An ignorant millennial
  One of the things I didn't miss when leaving the UK is the UK banks.
  In terms of sheer utter awfulness it goes UK Banks > US Banks > US Credit Unions.
  Credit unions aren't supporting a stock price on the stock market. So they don't pull nearly as many stunts as banks. They tend to be more localized as well which somehow makes them better.
  
  --
  I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
7. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-07 05:59 · Score: 1
  
  Think of it more as a Co-op bank.
  From Wikipedia: "A credit union is a member-owned financial cooperative, democratically controlled by its members, and operated for the purpose of promoting thrift, providing credit at competitive rates, and providing other financial services to its members."
  So instead of a shareholder-value based mega corp, you have a member-owned (works for the *stakeholder/customer* not shareholders) bank. Guess which one is going to pay money for security without trying to cut it to the barest of bare bones.
8. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by __aaclcg7560 · 2016-11-07 06:07 · Score: 1
  
  Credit unions are typically not in the business of nickel and diming their customers for every little thing.
9. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by brunes69 · 2016-11-07 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  It is still too early to know what actually happened here.
  It is actually far more likely that this is the result of some kind of very good automated phishing scam, than it is of someone penetrating the bank's core systems.
10. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by alvinrod · 2016-11-07 06:15 · Score: 2
  
  I bank at a credit union so I'm somewhat biased, but a credit union is basically a bank where by virtue of opening an account with them, you also become a partial owner of the business. It's similar to working for a company that gives you stock as part of working at that company. Because you're a partial owner of the credit union, you can vote on proposals just like you could vote if you were a stockholder for some company. Most people don't participate in this process, but they have the opportunity to do so if they're so inclined.
  
  Additionally, because you are an owner of the credit union, when they make money, they pay that to you, the owner. If a private bank does well and makes a lot of money, they're under no obligation to pass on those profits to their account holders. If there's sufficient competition, private banks typically do this in the form of offering better rates in order to get customers to deposit their money with that bank, but with a credit union the financial gains are paid out to the members, as though it were a company where all profits went to dividends.
  
  Probably the best reason people praise them is because they tend to be local organizations instead of big national chains. This means that the people working there are more likely to know you personally, especially if you attend any of the member events that most credit unions have from time to time. This makes customer support much, much better. Odds are if you have to call your credit union frequently, you'll be dealing with the same people most of the time. Contrast this with a huge bank that likely has a call center.
  
  Credit unions aren't perfect, and typically if you want the best possible rate, a huge national chain bank will be the one giving it to you in the vast majority of cases, but for me personally, the better customer service experience is worth more than a slightly better interest rate on my savings account.
11. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by Stephenmg · 2016-11-07 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  Its all about who the stakeholders are. Banks are for profit and normally have stock or ownership of some sort. Anyone can open an account. Credit Unions are not for profit. One of the credit unions I have an account at gives a dividend payment every year based on how much in savings and other accounts you have. Also, most credit unions are restricted in membership. One of my two credit unions is restricted by county that I live in, I think it covers a few in the metro. The other is based on where I work. The not for profit generally means better interest rates on savings accounts and lower rates on loans. At the regional credit union, i still have a debit card and online banking with bill pay. They even have an app. They even have more local branches, including a few in one of the major grocery store chains in the metro. ~An informed millenial
12. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by Archangel+Michael · 2016-11-07 06:20 · Score: 2
  
  A credit union is made up of the members that have accounts there. It is in the best interest of everyone to keep costs down and minimize risk and loses (such as fraud). The real boss is you, the member, not a stock price, not a CEO, not a trader in a cubicle or even a sophisticated computer algorithm.
  Credit Unions won't lie to you, to make an extra buck, there is no incentive to do so.
  
  --
  Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
13. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by TroII · 2016-11-07 06:26 · Score: 2
  
  They aren't beholden to Wall Street shareholders. Credit unions reinvest any profits back into the credit union itself, typically this manifests itself as better interests rates (lower rates on loans, higher earnings on CDs etc) for members. Compare to a bank where they have to meet Wall Street expectations by fucking over their customers.
  
  --
  "If there was a gay Afro-Puertorican Linux distribution, I'd give it a try" ~lucm
14. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by ADRA · 2016-11-07 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  Every local credit union in my area are up to their ears in housing mortgage debt, and we're in a local hosing bubble... I couldn't run away from them faster than I have.
  
  --
  Bye!
15. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by Luthair · 2016-11-07 06:30 · Score: 1
  
  Current password? Or a password reset?
16. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by bws111 · 2016-11-07 06:31 · Score: 2
  
  You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. Credit unions have long term loans (eg 30-year mortagages), are regulated, and deposits are insured (by the NCUA). What makes them better is that they are non-profits owned and governed by the members of the CU. Therefore, the actions they take are for the benefit of the members, and not stockholders.
17. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by eepok · 2016-11-07 06:32 · Score: 1
  
  Great question. I work in a county where there's an extremely well-known credit union with an education focus-- if you're a university student or employee of a school, you and your family can join the credit union. I joined as a student because it offered no fees for pretty much anything. As I grew into a career-person, I learned about the massive benefits. First, they're a not-for-profit. Their goal isn't to get rich and make people rich. It's to keep the money safe, keep member credit availability high, and then share what profits are had with their membership.
  
  Here's a great example: Most savings accounts accrue infinitesimal interest (if any). At this credit union, you get a .05% APR. Nothing special. You can open a Money Market account and get .1% APR, though. What's the difference? To the end user, nothing, really. You put money in and you take money out. Here's the good stuff though-- There's a Summer Saver's account (remember the education focus?) where you can have up to $2,000 of each of your paychecks deposited. This earns 3.0% APR! You can withdraw some/all the money whenever you want, but you can only deposit via your paycheck's direct deposit. Thus, your money isn't tied up, but while it's there, it's bringing in better interest than any other no-risk savings I've ever seen.
  
  Additionally, they have variable limit credit cards, rewards credit cards, home loans (PMI/Non-PMI, etc.)-- and all at rock-bottom interest rates because their goal isn't to milk money from you, it's to make sure you pay back your debt so that the members (including you), keep bringing in good interest returns.
18. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by avandesande · 2016-11-07 06:34 · Score: 1
  
  No fees and great customer service. Good loan terms and no gimmicks.
  
  --
  love is just extroverted narcissism
19. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by AmiMoJo · 2016-11-07 07:09 · Score: 1
  
  Current password.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
20. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by nukenerd · 2016-11-07 07:45 · Score: 1
  
  That's what you get when you trust a company that deals in low-price groceries and let them run a bank... They are not the same thing.
  First of all, Tescos in the UK are not a "low-price groceries company". They are middle market. Low-price means Aldi and Lidl.
  Secondly, the UK government guarantees to recompense customers of bank and building societies by up to 75,000 GBP if the bank goes bust. If Tesco were unable to make up for the lost money that would count as going bust. I have an account with Tesco Bank and even if I had lost anything in this hack, I would not be at all worried.
  In fact I'd be more worried if my money had been lost from a large bank because so much money might be involved that the UK government might start thinking up excuses not to pay out. OTOH, if they would not even bail out a small bank then they would lose all credibility in the financial world - endangering the entire UK economy.
21. Re: Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by Applehu+Akbar · 2016-11-07 08:40 · Score: 1
  
  JUMP! JUMP! JUMP!
22. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by drinkypoo · 2016-11-07 14:40 · Score: 1
  
  Probably the best reason people praise them is because they tend to be local organizations instead of big national chains. This means that the people working there are more likely to know you personally, especially if you attend any of the member events that most credit unions have from time to time. This makes customer support much, much better. Odds are if you have to call your credit union frequently, you'll be dealing with the same people most of the time. Contrast this with a huge bank that likely has a call center.
  
  I left my local CU and went to one in a neighboring town because the people working there were personally nosy and judgemental. I don't want to build a personal relationship with some busybody with whom I have nothing in common, thanks.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
23. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by jroysdon · 2016-11-07 16:08 · Score: 2
  
  FDIC and NCUA are both Federally-backed insurances and equally safe.
  https://www.gobankingrates.com...
24. Re:Why trust a cheap supermarket to be a bank? by Mean+Variance · 2016-11-07 16:44 · Score: 2
  
  That's a good assessment of credit unions in general. A few clarifications from your post and others.
  Quick background: I'm on the board of one of the largest credit unions in the country. The vast majority of credit union boards are volunteer. No pay. There are a handful of credit unions that pay the board, but it's rare.
  You didn't say specifically about profits, but there is a misconception that credit unions don't care about profit. Like any other business we need to retain a portion of earnings. If we didn't, we'd be shut down by regulators. That's the "net worth" ratio that is publicly available at ncua.gov. Typical safe zones are 8% to 12%. Lower and you'll have trouble absorbing the impact of a severe or prolonged recession. That happened in the '08 crash. No one lost money. Higher and you'll be questioned for not returning more profit to members in the form of services (e.g., investing in technology) or lower loan rates or higher dividends.
  I could go on for pages about the differences between credit unions and banks and even the various types within the credit union system. And there's no excuse for not doing due diligence with any bank or credit union. There are bad credit unions, but you're not going to lose your savings if it's protected by the NCUA. Some credit unions are not protected by the NCUA. They are part of American Share Insurance, a private entity. Stick with your standard NCUA insured version unless you know what you're doing.
Weasel words in action...24 "working hours" by Bearhouse · 2016-11-07 05:29 · Score: 1

I heard the interview; 24 "working hours" was quoted, so assuming 8 hours work days and that's 3 days elapsed time.
1. Re:Weasel words in action...24 "working hours" by Dunbal · 2016-11-07 05:40 · Score: 1
  
  Hahaha like bankers work 8 hours a day....
  
  --
  Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
2. Re:Weasel words in action...24 "working hours" by Coisiche · 2016-11-07 05:45 · Score: 1
  
  I have a suspicion that the Tesco Bank staff might be working a bit longer at the moment. I pass their Edinburgh office on the way home from work,I wonder if there will be more lights on than usual this evening.
3. Re:Weasel words in action...24 "working hours" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-07 08:39 · Score: 1
  
  Fewer lights, they recently fired a lot of them that work there and moved other jobs to Glasgow and Newcastle.
Re:Bannks don't need to be online by TechyImmigrant · 2016-11-07 05:45 · Score: 1

You can't write ogham on a quipu you insensitive clod!

--
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Shift of responsibility by fph+il+quozientatore · 2016-11-07 05:56 · Score: 1

How can they simply say "oops, money was taken from your accounts" and get away with it? They manage those accounts. It's their friggin' job to make sure money stays there.

--
My first program:
Hell Segmentation fault
1. Re:Shift of responsibility by Luthair · 2016-11-07 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  While most of us on Slashdot can probably deal with some money missing temporarily there are definitely people out there for whom this would be a big problem.
2. Re:Shift of responsibility by Shimbo · 2016-11-07 07:07 · Score: 1
  
  Tesco will compensate - at least to some degree. And they are probably better placed with a large retail network open 24x7 to provide emergency cash withdrawals than normal banks. Having said that for some people it will be a problem.
3. Re:Shift of responsibility by nukenerd · 2016-11-07 07:51 · Score: 1
  
  How can they simply say "oops, money was taken from your accounts" and get away with it?
  They have said nothing of the sort. There is no question of customers not getting their money back, and Tesco have said so. In fact it did not even need to be said. This is the UK, not the Central African Republic, or the USA.
Credit Unions vs banks by sjbe · 2016-11-07 06:12 · Score: 1

Credit unions are better.
Not necessarily. They might be better for a particular customer but you can't claim they are universally "better". Especially since you didn't define what "better" means here. Credit Unions are really just small banks with a novel ownership structure and they might be willing to hustle a bit more to get your business. But there are a lot of drawbacks to credit unions too. They don't usually have the latest and greatest technology. They have fewer ATMs and branches available. Membership can be restricted. Investing services can be limited and pricey if available at all.
For some people Credit Unions are a great deal. That's not true for everyone. For me a Credit Union is basically useless but that's just my particular situation. Your mileage may vary.
1. Re:Credit Unions vs banks by whoever57 · 2016-11-07 06:54 · Score: 1
  
  My experience has been the reverse.
  I use a credit union for my banking and:
  1. The Android app works better than the Wells Fargo app.
  2. There is a huge network of ATMs that I can use. Probably larger than that provided by any bank.
  3. Membership used to be restricted, The first credit union I joined was limited to one employer and they were so tied into that employer, they could access the HR systems to look up my salary history. But now, credit unions are so open that the concept of limited membership is a joke.
  4. Investing services? Do you really invest through your bank and not through a brokerage service like ETrade?
  5. Branches? My credit union has more local branches than the big banks, but the only reason to go into a branch is to deposit money in my HSA.
  I don't know your circumstances, but if you haven't looked at your options for a credit union recently, I suggest that you look again.
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
2. Re:Credit Unions vs banks by fustakrakich · 2016-11-07 07:04 · Score: 1
  
  They might be better for a particular customer but you can't claim they are universally "better".
  Yeah really, they're lousy for laundering cartel money and campaign slush funds. I mean, who wants to be tied down by a bunch of rules?
  
  --
  “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
3. Re:Credit Unions vs banks by sjbe · 2016-11-07 07:06 · Score: 1
  
  1. The Android app works better than the Wells Fargo app.
  There probably are exceptions but this isn't true as a general proposition.
  
  2. There is a huge network of ATMs that I can use. Probably larger than that provided by any bank.
  Seems unlikely. Most ATMs are owned by banks so unless they are reimbursing you this cannot be true.
  
  3. Membership used to be restricted,
  
  Many credit unions still have restricted membership to this day. Not universally true I'll grant but plenty do not accept anyone.
  
  4. Investing services? Do you really invest through your bank and not through a brokerage service like ETrade?
  LOTS of people invest through brokerage services provided by their banks. All the big banks have huge investment divisions and are broker dealers.
  
  5. Branches? My credit union has more local branches than the big banks, but the only reason to go into a branch is to deposit money in my HSA.
  Maybe you live somewhere weird but this is again just simply not true most places. Plus good luck if you leave your local area. There are LOTS of reasons why people go into a bank branch. If you only do it for one minor reason then you aren't a very complicated customer. I'm in a bank branch at least 1-2X per month for business and personal banking reasons.
4. Re:Credit Unions vs banks by whoever57 · 2016-11-07 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  3. Membership used to be restricted,
  
  Many credit unions still have restricted membership to this day. Not universally true I'll grant but plenty do not accept anyone.
  I'll take everything you wrote as quite likely to be wrong, since you took my statement out of context and used the lack of context to infer a meaning that was clearly different to the meaning of the complete statement.
  
  2. There is a huge network of ATMs that I can use. Probably larger than that provided by any bank.
  
  Seems unlikely. Most ATMs are owned by banks so unless they are reimbursing you this cannot be true.
  
  Easily refuted
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
5. Re:Credit Unions vs banks by jroysdon · 2016-11-07 16:13 · Score: 1
  
  Every CU I know is part of the CO-OP ATM network, meaning you can use any of the other CU's CO-OP ATMs, fee-free. All 7-11s I've every visited are CO-OP ATMs as well. Do you know how many 7-11s there are in the US?
Re:Bannks don't need to be online by Chris+Mattern · 2016-11-07 06:18 · Score: 1

If, by "the old days", you mean the Middle Ages. Banks haven't stored all the cash and gold on deposit with them in the vault in many centuries.
Re:Happened to me with BofA... by TroII · 2016-11-07 06:30 · Score: 1

I got the funds back, but BofA said there was no way to prevent this from happening again.
They're right, the ECH transfer process operates on faith and trust. A merchant can initiate a draft against anyone's checking account, and there aren't really any safeguards once you have access to the system.

--
"If there was a gay Afro-Puertorican Linux distribution, I'd give it a try" ~lucm
Not enough Checking by Roger+W+Moore · 2016-11-07 08:07 · Score: 1

a 'current account' is like a checking account in the US
Apparently not the ones at Tesco Bank where it seems there is clearly no where near enough checking going on.
The BANK loses money, not the customers by khchung · 2016-11-07 12:39 · Score: 2

The money was withdrawn WITHOUT proper authorization by the customers, it was not the customers who loses the money, but the bank.
This is in UK, not the US where banks just push all its losses to its customers (really, why do you guys in the US still put money into banks? They can just set your balance to zero and claim "identity theft"!), this quote in the article already made it very clear.

"Any financial loss that results from this fraudulent activity will be borne by the bank," Mr Higgins said. "Customers are not at financial risk."

--
Oliver.
curso NR 10 by Instituto+Santa+Cata · 2016-11-09 05:57 · Score: 1

Curso NR 10 online curso NR 10 curso NR 10 online