New MacBook Pro's Dedicated AMD Graphics Chips Are 'Significantly' Faster and Support Dual 5K Displays (macrumors.com)

It's shit by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 10:57 · Score: 0, Flamebait

The wireless also cuts out when you have USB devices plugged in. Why aren't you Apple cocksuckers mentioning that?

Re:It's shit by saloomy · 2016-11-14 12:32 · Score: 1

Wireless what? What are you talking about? This is discussing the ability to connect displays to the new MacBook Pro. Neither the displays, nor any of the graphics portions thereof are wireless. They connect over Thunderbolt 3.
Re:It's shit by Ash-Fox · 2016-11-15 00:15 · Score: 1

He's talking about Louis Rossman's recent video where connecting a device to a specific USB-C plug caused the wireless on the new MBP to cut out.

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Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Re: It's shit by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-15 07:19 · Score: 0

My laptop was outperforming Apple's current bleeding edge three years ago. Macs are for retards.

Re:TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 10:59 · Score: 0, Offtopic

You may be having a good time, but us in the rest of the world are laughing our asses off at you. You're country is beyond fucked.

Comparison to Current GPUs? by Roger+W+Moore · 2016-11-14 11:00 · Score: 5, Insightful

the Radeon Pro 455 graphics chip in particular to be a "significant boost" over...the Nvidia GeForce GTX 650M, Nvidia GeForce GTX 750M, and AMD Radeon R9 M370X

I bet it is also a lot faster than the graphics on my 1980's BBC Model B too but that's not really a useful comparison is it? It it were not better than the GPUs in machines which are at least 18 months old it would be pretty pathetic. How about the comparison to the new nVidia 10-series mobile GPUs that new non-Mac laptops are getting?

Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by edxwelch · 2016-11-14 11:10 · Score: 5, Informative

> How about the comparison to the new nVidia 10-series mobile GPUs that new non-Mac laptops are getting?
Because, there are no Pascal GPU's with a TDP of 35W. If you put a 85W GTX 1060 into a Macbook Pro it'd probably burst into flames. Also, mobile Polaris chips are significantly thinner.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by Gravis+Zero · 2016-11-14 11:25 · Score: 1

the Radeon Pro 455 graphics chip in particular to be a "significant boost" over...the Nvidia GeForce GTX 650M, Nvidia GeForce GTX 750M, and AMD Radeon R9 M370X
I bet it is also a lot faster than the graphics on my 1980's BBC Model B too but that's not really a useful comparison is it?
Hey, I use a GTX 650M, you insensitive clod!

--
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 11:41 · Score: 1

So, your complaint is that they did a literal Apples-to-Apples comparison?
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by vux984 · 2016-11-14 12:50 · Score: 4, Interesting

Maybe if they shouldn't make it so thin then? That way it could support performance parts.
Basically I've said it before -- the new macbook pro is the very best macbook air they could make. And if you want a really nice macbook air you are in luck... but if you wanted something that could actually perform in the same league as a Dell Precision, and were willing to carry around a little extra size and weight to get that performance... well ... tough.
Apple doesn't make design compromises to meet performance targets... apple just makes performance compromises until it fits into their design targets. Just be happy... no be *delighted*... that the new macbook pro is faster than the one they made 4 years ago... because based on Ars Technica this is a somehow an achievement.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by mlts · 2016-11-14 14:25 · Score: 2

I'd rather have a MacBook Pro as thick as my 2008 aluminum MB, especially if I could get things like replaceable RAM, SSD, and a removable battery. If I want thin above all else, that's what MacBooks are for.
Barring that, maybe Apple should look at the design of their old PowerBook Duo. A thin laptop, but stick it in a docking station, and you gain a lot more ports. Done right, this could be a decent compromise between a thin laptop and a decent desktop with good performance, especially if it has the ability to have a decent GPU in the dock, additional SSDs/HDDs, and multiple 10gigE NICs. Having a dock with "all the ports" would be useful as well.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by Billly+Gates · 2016-11-14 17:33 · Score: 2

Dude this is a Pro not an iphone.
That GPU is 2009 performance so the brainwashing with Apple fans are strong with this one

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Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by sexconker · 2016-11-14 18:17 · Score: 1

The last time Apple used performance Nvidia parts they got screwed because they were all defective. See bumpgate.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by blindseer · 2016-11-14 19:14 · Score: 1

Barring that, maybe Apple should look at the design of their old PowerBook Duo. A thin laptop, but stick it in a docking station, and you gain a lot more ports.
There are docks for the new MacBooks, just not made by Apple. A quick Google search found me several different companies that make them, a few examples:
https://hengedocks.com/
https://www.landingzone.net/
https://www.elgato.com/en/thun...
http://zenboxx.com/
http://www.belkin.com/us/F4U08...
If you want a dock with a "decent" GPU then there are a number of combinations of PCIe cages and GPUs to choose from. That's getting into an odd place though since few people would go through the expense of getting a laptop and a dock with GPU, gigabit Ethernet, and all the other stuff you listed and not simply buy a desktop computer to host all that hardware.
I have to wonder if you have your head stuck in the 1990s. People aren't limited to one computer by cost, space, or company policy like they used to. Your 1990s thinking shows especially with your demand for a removable battery. Just why would you want to remove the battery? I remember those battery chargers for laptops that could charge four batteries at a time, those haven't been a thing in a long time. People will now just buy an off the shelf universal battery that has a USB power output port.
I also believe that your definition of a "dock" is so narrow that you lost what a dock was supposed to do for you. My brother wanted a "dock" for his laptop so he could plug in dual displays, Ethernet, printer, keyboard, mouse, and speakers. There's all kinds of USB "docks" that will do that. It's not a box that one would slide their laptop into like a PowerBook Duo but it'd be a box with all the stuff you listed attached which can be connected to the laptop with a single cable. One would then also have to plug in the power cable too but, "OH NOES!! Not another cable!" is not how one should respond to that. You should respond with awe in the large number of choices in docks available, from so many different vendors, and at such low prices.

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I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-11-14 22:31 · Score: 1

Maybe if they shouldn't make it so thin then?

Apple hasn't made a luggable with laughable battery time since the original Macintosh Portable. Live with it.

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Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Re: Comparison to Current GPUs? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 23:26 · Score: 0

Don't forget you have to be willing to use a shit OS.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by AmiMoJo · 2016-11-15 01:13 · Score: 1

I've noticed that this is standard practice for Apple. Use a slightly customized part so that direct comparisons are impossible. They did it with the GPUs in the Mac Pro trash can, which were billed as pro Radeon cards but were actually crippled.

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const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by Jeremi · 2016-11-15 03:46 · Score: 1

Apple doesn't make design compromises to meet performance targets... apple just makes performance compromises until it fits into their design targets.
And Apple isn't necessarily wrong to do so, either. Speed isn't everything, otherwise we'd all be driving Ferraris.

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I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by Gr8Apes · 2016-11-15 04:23 · Score: 1

That's because macbooks are piles of shit that places more emphasis on looks rather than performance.
And yet everyone is chasing macbooks in feature sets. Just jealous, I guess.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by Gr8Apes · 2016-11-15 04:41 · Score: 1

Yep, and if you want pro GPU performance by your metrics, buy the top end 15" MBP with the 460 based mobile GPU, which comes in at about 90% of the speed of a desktop RX460. Yes, nVidia is faster, but I'm not sure you can call any of those 10x0 nvidia based systems "laptops" anymore, at least not without some sort of heat shield attached.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by vux984 · 2016-11-15 05:48 · Score: 1

There are docks for the new MacBooks
Someone should build a whole mac laptop into one of the docks, then we could carry around that and not bother buying a new macbook.
Apple is completely neurotic here.
They make an all-in-one desktop -- that is pointless because for a device that just sits on my desk there is really no functional advantage to having everything built into the screen, and as a result its woefully underpowered, and impossible to upgrade.
Yet as soon as I want something portable, where all-in-oneness, and having everything built in is the holy grail of actual convenience they want me to carry around a bag of cables, adapters, and docks.
For what it's worth docks are suitable for people who want to leave the dock at their desk and take the laptop home with them. Docks are an idiotic joke for people who want the functionality to actually be in their laptop so that they can go from place to place and use different connections at each place. I, for example, need ethernet and hdmi and USB-A ports pretty much where-ever I go. If im at a client branch site... I need those ports. If I'm at a trade show. I need those ports. If I'm in a board room I need those ports. I'd like them built into the laptop. I don't care if it weighs a few oz more, or is a bit thicker as a result. I don't want to carry around a bag of dongles or a big super-dongle (dock) everywhere. The entire purpose of the laptop is to be a convenient portable mobile all-in-one solution.
Hell the one place I don't need a dock is at my actual desk, because that's the one place I don't use my laptop. I've got a desktop computer there, with 32GB RAM, and dual screens, and a GTX 1080, and 4 hard drives, mouse, mechanical keyboard, headset, speakers... it would be a complete pain in the ass to move it 5 feet but i don't need to move it 5 feet because its a desktop that stays on a desk. It's when I need to go somewhere ELSE that'd I'd like to pickup an all-in-one self-contained laptop.

You should respond with awe in the large number of choices in docks available, from so many different vendors, and at such low prices.
Instead I respond with awe at the absolutely miserable set of choices in Apple laptops available, such that I would even need to look at all this shit from other vendors to fix the short-comings of the one device I buy that I actually want everything built in, the one device I buy where the fewer things I need to accessorize it with is it's number one selling point.
I understand that's not everyone's priority... lots of people want their laptop thin and light as possible and rarely attach it to anything. And I respect that. I don't think the macbook air line is a bad product at all. But wake up apple, there is more than exactly one demographic, and the macbook air market is the only one you even acknowledge now.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by vux984 · 2016-11-15 06:00 · Score: 1

My old macbook pro was almost perfect. The only real joke on it was the mini-displayport instead of a full size HDMI port. It had gigabit ethernet, it had an easily replacable battery, it had usb ports and with an SSD upgrade it got a nice performance boost.
My next macbook pro wasn't really progress -- it got thinner for no real reason -- the previous one was fine and I'd have preferred more battery and ram etc to "thinner". Plus it lost the gigabit port which was a real irritant, but it at least it picked up HDMI... so I ended up traded one dongle for another.
The new macbook pro... WTF... it got thinner again... buy a macbook air if you want thinner. Still no ethernet, but my ethernet - thunderbolt dongle would need to be replaced with a new dongle. It loses HDMI too... so another dongle. It loses usbA so ... another dongle. It loses Magsafe -- one of the selling points of the macbook pro. It loses the escape key... which I use....
I'm not asking for a "luggable"... I"m asking for a 2010 macbook pro form factor with modern parts. USBC, USBA, HDMI, and ethernet...
The new one
Re: Comparison to Current GPUs? by Billly+Gates · 2016-11-15 06:34 · Score: 1

An Nvidia 960M which is lower middle end from 2014 can kick it's butt easily. The Microsoft Surface Studio uses one. AMD does make a mobile version of its RX 480 which is in use with the Sony PS 4 pro which is like 5x faster. Not as battery efficient but insanely better performance that can scale easily to 5K for non gaming tasks and even game at 2K.
Hell the 450 can barely scale to 720P for gaming. Yes these are not gaming laptops yada yada but they offer a look at graphical performance.

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Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by vux984 · 2016-11-15 06:43 · Score: 0

And Apple isn't necessarily wrong to do so, either. Speed isn't everything, otherwise we'd all be driving Ferraris.
Funny you should say that because the new macbook pro really is more like a ferrari than anything else; in the sense that the way the ferrari gives up everything else ... towing, trunk, passengers, rear visibility in exchange for performance and sex appeal; the macbook pro gives up everythning else ... ports, upgradeability, performance in exchange for thinness and sex appeal.

"Speed isn't everything"
Thin isn't everything either. I need a USBA and HDMI port and more RAM a lot more than i needed it thinner than last years macbook pro. If I'd wanted something thinner I'd buy an air.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by blindseer · 2016-11-15 09:21 · Score: 1

But wake up apple, there is more than exactly one demographic, and the macbook air market is the only one you even acknowledge now.
My oh my, such a mountain out of a molehill.
You say you need USB-A ports? A pack of 3 USB 2.0 adapters cost $6. A USB 3.1 adapter costs maybe $12. Keep in mind this is for a $2000 laptop. Is an extra $20 going to break you?
When I pack my laptop I pack the cables I need, like the HDMI and Ethernet cables you mention. I have an older MacBook Pro and so when I think I need Ethernet I pack an Ethernet cable with the Thunderbolt adapter stuck on the end. That adapter costs maybe $30 and is the size of a pack of chewing gum. My MBP has an HDMI port and I never used it once. If I did need an HDMI cable I'd be tempted to get a Mini-DisplayPort to HDMI cable anyway since it'd be "future proof", cost only marginally more than a plain HDMI cable, and likely support higher resolutions than the port built-in.
I think you are just looking for something to complain about. The adapters you require are ubiquitous, inexpensive, standardized, and tiny compared to the cables they would be necessarily connected to. Your 1990s thinking would make sense if these adapters were still as large, expensive, fragile, and difficult to find as they were 20 years ago.

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I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by vux984 · 2016-11-15 10:25 · Score: 1

You say you need USB-A ports? A pack of 3 USB 2.0 adapters cost $6. A USB 3.1 adapter costs maybe $12. Keep in mind this is for a $2000 laptop. Is an extra $20 going to break you?
Wait? You think this is about the money? It's not about the money. This is about convenience. This is about having something that just works. This is about getting the job done anywhere. I'd gladly pay $500 more for a laptop that gave me 12+ hours of battery and the most common ports just so that I don't have to babysit a bag of dongles and cables.

That adapter costs maybe $30 and is the size of a pack of chewing gum.
If I forget or lose or break the ehternet cable in my bag, I can rely on practically every office I might be in having one. I can rely on all of my peers having one I can borrow. I can rely on my clients having one I can borrow. The average hotel lobby has one I can borrow even in a 3rd world country. But If I lose, break, or forget my thunderbolt to ethernet adapter, I'm basically helpless. That's already happened several times over the last 2 years because nobody just has them. USBC to ethernet is the same thing. Nobody has them. The only place they are ubiquitous is INSIDE an apple store. I can't even rely on getting them at the walmart in small town X.

When I pack my laptop I pack the cables I need,
And that is why you don't get it. You've accepted that as something you should actually have to do with a $2000 pro series laptop. I want an all-in-one device. I shouldn't have to pack a bag of things to go with it.

The adapters you require are ubiquitous, inexpensive, standardized, and tiny
I don't think you know what ubiquitous means. My neighbor has hdmi, ethernet, and a USB-A flash drive in their home. So do my parents. Even my grandmother. Every office on the continent has them too. You can go to your hotel lobby or concierge anywhere from Turkey to China to Haiti and they'll probably have an Ethernet cable you can buy or borrow somewhere on the premises. Got an RJ45 on your laptop... you are good to go.
But USB-C adapters? Practically nobody just has those. Those aren't ubiquitous. They aren't even widespread. Maybe one day, and USBC support is something I'd look for in new devices... but to go USBC-only in a laptop that I need to take anywhere and have it work? That's just idiotic.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by exomondo · 2016-11-15 18:14 · Score: 0

Because, there are no Pascal GPU's with a TDP of 35W. If you put a 85W GTX 1060 into a Macbook Pro it'd probably burst into flames. Also, mobile Polaris chips are significantly thinner.
Right but that just highlights Apple's shift in their target market. They used to offer highend, high performance systems targeted at pro users with a flexible, professional operating system. The relative performance of their most high end "professional" laptops has dropped significantly in favor of being fashionably thin and while the introduction of Gatekeeper with it's defaults where you had to manually select that you wanted programs other than those from the app store was annoying, Sierra's removal of that option completely shows that this was the slippery slope so many people were saying.
Now you can't do a blanket authorization of non-approved apps, you can't buy a Macbook with a competitive GPU and if you want support for prevalent interfaces like USB-A, Thunderbolt 2, HDMI, etc... you need an array of dongles. They used to be about seamless interoperability, now it's just clumsy.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by blindseer · 2016-11-15 19:33 · Score: 1

I don't think you know what ubiquitous means.
Let me look it up...

ubiquitous |yoÍzoËbikwÉ(TM)tÉ(TM)s|
adjective
present, appearing, or found everywhere: his ubiquitous influence was felt by all the family | cowboy hats are ubiquitous among the male singers.
That's what I thought it meant. I did a quick internet search on some stores I know to be in small towns around here, did a search for USB-C adapters, and looked for in store pickup to see if it was actually at the store. First thing I found out is that even small town hardware stores carry these things. They might not have them in the store right now but they know how to get them in a few days or even overnight. By next Christmas they will be on the shelves next to the candy bars, cheap flashlights, and alkaline batteries.
The town I live in is not "small" but not huge either. There is a hardware store near me that I know will carry some pretty obscure stuff if even one customer asks for it. If someone asks for one of something they'll buy a dozen knowing that more people will likely be asking for it in the future. If I ask for USB-C cables they'll likely carry them by next week.

And that is why you don't get it. You've accepted that as something you should actually have to do with a $2000 pro series laptop. I want an all-in-one device. I shouldn't have to pack a bag of things to go with it.
I've accepted that at some point the old must be replaced by the new. USB 1.1 devices took a while to become ubiquitous too. This current rarity of USB-C devices will pass soon enough. I suspect in the next year or two HDMI on laptops will be as rare as VGA is now.
I've also accepted that as much as I'd like for someone to cater to my every product requirement I know it won't happen. I'd like to buy a laptop with a real serial port, not these USB devices that are lacking in some active pins and often run at non-standard voltages. I also know I'm not likely to find one. You and I are a very small market and Apple simply cannot cater to us and stay in business.
I've also accepted that when I pack my laptop I will need to carry stuff to go with it, if only to have a real mouse and the laptop charger. If I plan to do more than just surf the web at a coffee shop or my mom's house then I'll need to pack adapters. That has been the rule for a very long time. I don't know what the color of the sky is on your world but on this planet the sky is blue and Ethernet ports have been disappearing from laptops for a long time. It was only a matter of time for them to disappear from the high end laptops too.

--
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by vux984 · 2016-11-16 16:17 · Score: 1

They might not have them in the store right now but they know how to get them in a few days or even overnight.
yeah, because when the guy next to you hands you a device, you think 'ubiquitous support' means go to a store and wait a few day to plug it in.
Are you even listening to yourself?

The town I live in is not "small" but not huge either. There is a hardware store near me that I know will carry some pretty obscure stuff if even one customer asks for it. If someone asks for one of something they'll buy a dozen knowing that more people will likely be asking for it in the future. If I ask for USB-C cables they'll likely carry them by next week.
That's great, if i'm ever in your town, guess which store you are thinking of, and am fortunate enough to go there at least a week after you've asked for one. Again... that's the oppositive of 'ubiquitous' availability. You know what ubiquitous is? rj45 ethernet and USBA flash drives and TVs with HDMI.

I've accepted that at some point the old must be replaced by the new. USB 1.1 devices took a while to become ubiquitous too. This current rarity of USB-C devices will pass soon enough.

Sure. But I live in the present. When the odds of being handed a USBA device is substantially less than the odds of being handed a USBC device we can start thinking about dropping USBA.

I'd like to buy a laptop with a real serial port, not these USB devices that are lacking in some active pins and often run at non-standard voltages. I also know I'm not likely to find one. You and I are a very small market and Apple simply cannot cater to us and stay in business.
This is a strawman and you know it. USBA is ubiquitous; apple is isn't dropping support for a 'very small market' apple is giving the middle finger to pretty much the ENTIRE market.

I don't know what the color of the sky is on your world but on this planet the sky is blue and Ethernet ports have been disappearing from laptops for a long time. It was only a matter of time for them to disappear from the high end laptops too.
They're only diappearing on the ultra-portables - which makes sense. Nothing in the portable workstation / performance oriented class is giving them up at all.

I'll need to pack adapters. That has been the rule for a very long time.
It doesn't need to be. It could 'just work'. I have plenty of PC laptops that have all the ports I routinely need.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by blindseer · 2016-11-17 04:48 · Score: 1

Sure. But I live in the present.

Apple is making a device to sell for the next 18 months. Come back in 6 months and see if the same complaint holds.
I used hardware stores as an example of the last place people would go to find things like this. Even the small town hardware stores carry them, as in the same places people go to get paint and drywall screws. In a big box store like Walmart, a cell phone store, many truck stops, and so forth, there will be USB-C products on the shelves.
Also, you keep going on about RJ-45, which is odd to me. Do you know what is ubiquitous? WiFi.
HDMI is already dead or dying. I rarely see it on computers. It's limited to 1080p in many cases while DisplayPort will do at least 4K. HDMI might live on for a while as an alternate mode for DisplayPort, MHL, and USB-C but that means carrying a cable or adapter. Older computers have DVI which is compatible with HDMI with an adapter, which has been common for a long time, but it is still an adapter.

I'd like to buy a laptop with a real serial port, not these USB devices that are lacking in some active pins and often run at non-standard voltages. I also know I'm not likely to find one. You and I are a very small market and Apple simply cannot cater to us and stay in business.
This is a strawman and you know it. USBA is ubiquitous; apple is isn't dropping support for a 'very small market' apple is giving the middle finger to pretty much the ENTIRE market.
For every person like you that complains about the loss of the USB-A port there are a dozen people standing in line to buy a new MacBook Pro. Saying the "ENTIRE" market is somehow inconvenienced by this just does not show in Apple's sales results. By the time Apple is able to catch up on all the orders rolling in for their new laptops even the small town hardware store near me will have USB-C cables on the shelves.
Just for giggles I went back to a couple websites to see if the hardware stores near me has USB-C devices. I now see flash drives (with USB-C and USB-A connectors on the same device) on the shelves where they weren't last time. The USB-C to USB-A adapters are sold out in one store but they do have USB-C to 4 USB-A hubs. By next week I expect this to be rectified with the cables on the shelves.
I may have to revise my earlier comment, I don't think you'll have to wait 6 months but only 6 weeks. Given the sold out adapters as an indication of demand it may be only 6 days. These stores know what sells. If they see USB-C to USB-A adapters selling out then they'll start to stock USB-C to whatever adapters as well.

--
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by vux984 · 2016-11-18 05:04 · Score: 1

Apple is making a device to sell for the next 18 months. Come back in 6 months and see if the same complaint holds.
Will everyone still have USBA devices in 6 months or even 18 months? Yes. Next question.

I used hardware stores as an example of the last place people would go to find things like this. Even the small town hardware stores carry them
If anything, that just tells you how many people need adapters, which just tells you what a FUCK UP it was not to include them on the laptop. It's not a small niche that need adapters, it's everybody. And if everybody needs these adapters, such that even backwards hardware stores are trying to cash in it... then the product is flawed for not having the ports.
QED

For every person like you that complains about the loss of the USB-A port there are a dozen people standing in line to buy a new MacBook Pro.
Which other apple laptop are they going to line up for? If you want even a half decently spec'd mac laptop there is only one to choose from. So you put up with its warts and flaws or you go without entirely.

Saying the "ENTIRE" market is somehow inconvenienced by this just does not show in Apple's sales results
You are looking in the wrong place. Remember that last-place-you'd-ever-look-hardware-store that you were giggling with delight at it carrying adapters?? That's your PROOF the entire market is inconvenienced. If it was just a small niche that needed adapters then they'd be special order or only carried in specialty shops.
Nobody wants adapters. They are a necessary but inconvenient reality. Except in this case, where there is no good reason for them being necessary. The laptop should have had the port built in.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by blindseer · 2016-11-18 23:25 · Score: 1

Will everyone still have USBA devices in 6 months or even 18 months? Yes. Next question.
You are correct. What you seem to miss is that this is a one time cost, just buy the cables and adapters needed to connect the existing devices and be done with it. You even said yourself it's not about the cost, it's about convenience. This adds convenience by not having to worry about which way is up on those stupid USB-A connectors any more. All it costs is $2 per cable to fix. If you are so absent minded that you keep losing your cables then you can pick up the cables and adapters at the same store you get your furnace filters and antifreeze.

If anything, that just tells you how many people need adapters, which just tells you what a FUCK UP it was not to include them on the laptop. It's not a small niche that need adapters, it's everybody. And if everybody needs these adapters, such that even backwards hardware stores are trying to cash in it... then the product is flawed for not having the ports.
Of all the people I've talked to about this you are quite literally the only person I've seen that considers this more than a minor inconvenience. Some people are even overjoyed about this because it rids them of having to deal with those stupid USB-A connectors any more.

You are looking in the wrong place. Remember that last-place-you'd-ever-look-hardware-store that you were giggling with delight at it carrying adapters?? That's your PROOF the entire market is inconvenienced. If it was just a small niche that needed adapters then they'd be special order or only carried in specialty shops.
Nobody wants adapters. They are a necessary but inconvenient reality. Except in this case, where there is no good reason for them being necessary. The laptop should have had the port built in.
You are bitching about the loss of ports that *YOU* see as vital to have on a laptop. Apple does their research and they are not going to make a computer that people aren't going to buy. The lack of HDMI and RJ-45 ports is evidence that few people are inconvenienced by this.
You see the popularity of these adapters as "proof" that Apple fucked up. I see it as proof that people are quite willing to do away with their USB-A ports. These people weren't forced to buy these computers with USB-C ports since there are plenty of computers with USB-A on the market yet. People are willing to make this shift and pay money for the convenience of not having to try plugging in their USB-A devices and find out they have to flip it over to first.
What people aren't willing to do though is toss out perfectly usable USB-A devices when an inexpensive adapter will allow them to keep it functional. Given that the local hardware store stocks their USB-C flash drives right next to the shotgun shells I'm quite confident that I'll be able to find USB-C devices, cables, and adapters when I need them.
I get the feeling that I've been trolled all this while and you've just been seeing how long you could get someone to argue with you. That and/or you had no intention to ever by an Apple product and you were just looking for a reason to justify your decision.

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I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by vux984 · 2016-11-19 21:07 · Score: 1

What you seem to miss is that this is a one time cost,
Just like minidisplay port to hdmi, and my thunderbolt to ethernet, ... except now i have to buy a bunch of new dongles; and i'll need to buy multiples so I can leave one at home, one at work, and one in my bag -- in some vain attempt not to have to babysit them like an obsessive compulsive. And I'll still need all my old dongles floating around because i'll still have my old laptop.

This adds convenience by not having to worry about which way is up on those stupid USB-A connectors any more.
You know what would add convenience? Having a USBA port on the laptop itself. So don't try to sell be a bunch of bullshit about how having to buy a bunch of cables somehow adds convenience. It doesn't.

You are bitching about the loss of ports that *YOU* see as vital to have on a laptop. Apple does their research and they are not going to make a computer that people aren't going to buy
You might want to look at the mac pro (the trashcan in particular) but even the rest were just stupid, the cube was another fuckup...

You see the popularity of these adapters as "proof" that Apple fucked up. I see it as proof that people are quite willing to do away with their USB-A ports.
No In one pile I see a lot of people who buy shiny things, and don't even realize they need a bag of adapters until they get home. In another pile I see a lot of people who like OSX enough to put up with all kinds of Apple bullshit, because they've invested in the platform. The fact that USBC adapters are so popular is proof that USBA wasn't dead yet ... and everybody would be happier if the laptop still had the ports. And even those are willing to put up with adapters would still, given a choice, have preferred at USBA port right on the laptop. Nobody "prefers" adapters.

I get the feeling that I've been trolled all this while and you've just been seeing how long you could get someone to argue with you. That and/or you had no intention to ever by an Apple product and you were just looking for a reason to justify your decision.
I can see why you'd think that, but no, I'm a long time mac laptop user. And I'm already sick of being inconvenienced by carrying around my "special" ethernet cable, and not being able to use ethernet if I leave it behind. I already consider it a big hassle and a waste of time dealing with it. And I usually just borrow someone else's laptop that has an damned ethernet port, because THAT is more convenient that a trip to a store and back.
Re:Comparison to Current GPUs? by Coren22 · 2016-11-23 08:50 · Score: 1

Here ya go:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/pr...
It probably would even run MacOS, or just run it in a VM if the hardware isn't compatible.

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Re: Comparison to Current GPUs? by Coren22 · 2016-11-23 08:52 · Score: 1

Here is my laptop with a 960m...
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/pr...

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APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?

0x more RAM by bigbang137 · 2016-11-14 11:01 · Score: 1, Flamebait

It also has 0x more RAM. How else would they sell bigger SSDs for long-lasting thrashing...

so the new macbook pro by Idimmu+Xul · 2016-11-14 11:01 · Score: 2

is a great gaming laptop?

maybe they need to rebrand..

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Re:so the new macbook pro by blindseer · 2016-11-14 12:11 · Score: 1

I thought computer gaming was a professional sport now.

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I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Re:so the new macbook pro by ArtemaOne · 2016-11-14 13:23 · Score: 1

No, it is good at modern gaming, but better at rendering for non-gaming things than the average gaming PC.

wtf slashdot by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 11:02 · Score: 5, Insightful

New dedicated graphics chips are faster than integrated ones and dedicated chips that are 4 and 3 generations older. What amazing news!

Re:wtf slashdot by blindseer · 2016-11-14 12:23 · Score: 2

Not just faster but "significantly" faster.
Still not impressed? Me neither.
I will say that a laptop that can drive two 5K displays and it's internal HD display, without additional hardware, is impressive. But then maybe I'm easily impressed and/or I'm just ignorant of how laptops have improved lately.

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I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Re:wtf slashdot by Kjella · 2016-11-14 17:48 · Score: 1

I will say that a laptop that can drive two 5K displays and it's internal HD display, without additional hardware, is impressive. But then maybe I'm easily impressed and/or I'm just ignorant of how laptops have improved lately.
It's mostly a matter of priorities, each screen takes some circuitry and beyond three (for an external left/center/right setup) has been a tiny niche. They've had solutions for digital signage for a long time, they've just not put that in a laptop. It's one thing to display 2*5120x2880+2560x1600 = 33.5 MP if you just want light 2D graphics, but it's roughly the same MP as one 8K screen (7680x4320 = 33.1 MP) and even the heaviest discrete GFX cards work hard on 4K gaming. To drive 4x the pixels, I think even a quad-SLI/CF would struggle. So it's a lot of pixels, but a Radeon 455 is a tiny engine to drive that huge load.

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Re:wtf slashdot by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-11-14 22:40 · Score: 0

New dedicated graphics chips are faster than integrated ones and dedicated chips that are 4 and 3 generations older. What amazing news!
Well, it sure as hell should surprise all the experts here who claimed they were slower than the previous MacBook Pros.
But no, for them "significantly faster" is still the new slower.

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Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Re:wtf slashdot by AmiMoJo · 2016-11-15 01:16 · Score: 1

Simply driving those displays isn't that impressive, the question is how well can it drive them. If things get choppy as memory bandwidth becomes strained or the GPU has to keep swapping graphics in and out of its share of RAM, it will suck.

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Re:wtf slashdot by blindseer · 2016-11-15 09:42 · Score: 1

Simply driving those displays isn't that impressive, the question is how well can it drive them.
I can agree to that somewhat. Getting a Thunderbolt to DP/HDMI/VGA/whatever adapter isn't all that different than getting one of those USB GPUs that are relatively common now. It's not just the hardware though, it's the software. I have to deal with multiple monitor computers all the time now that dual displays is increasingly the norm for people. I'll still have to deal with Windows computers that will "lose" one of the displays for some crazy reason or another, or "forget" that a display supports more than 640x480 resolution.
What is impressive to me is how poorly Windows handles multiple displays given that I had a three display Mac back in the 1990s. I'd have my MP3 player on one screen, web browser on another, and my text editor front and center. We had to do things like that then, screens the size of 1024x768 was considered "huge" then.
For what I do, and I imagine a large portion of the population does on their laptops, I suspect that the MBP is more than sufficient. There are laptops with more powerful GPUs, of course, but as pointed out in other posts this requires a much larger laptop to handle the power consumption and dissipation. What the MBP has, but many competitors do not, is a high bandwidth connection like ThunderBolt to add a really nice GPU if one wants it. In that case bandwidth comes into play as well, the bottleneck is just in a different place.

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I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.

only because apple chose it.. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 11:04 · Score: 0

over nvidia's pascal-based chips, which easily surpasses anything amd has now or has in the pipeline.

apple could have been a featured launch partner for nvidia's newest mobile chips.. the timing would have been about right.

Not exactly a high bar to clear by Solandri · 2016-11-14 11:07 · Score: 4, Interesting

The older 650m, 750m, and M370X were all mid-tier laptop GPUs when released, and passed on to low-tier within a year even though Apple kept selling them for 2-3 years. Benchmarks for the 455 aren't in yet, but it's expected to come in around the 950m or 960m. Which leaves the MBP dedicated GPUs a distant runner up against laptops equipped with a 970m or 980m. It'll fall even further behind the newer 1060m-1080m when they're released, and Apple doesn't update the MBP GPU for 2-3 years as per the pattern.

The problem stems from Apple's insistence on using a unibody aluminum chassis without any vent holes. That traps hot air inside (the superior heat-conducting properties of metal make no difference when there's an insulating layer of air between the hot components and the chassis). That makes the MBP designs extremely heat-constrained. They're already using special Intel quad core CPUs with a 25W TDP instead of the regular 45W TDP. And the GPU is limited to about a 35W TDP while other laptops use GPUs with up to a 120W TDP.

Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by felixrising · 2016-11-14 11:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

But, this isn't a high end desktop replacement gaming laptop, is it?! The laptop isn't exhausting very hot air, instead it is a good performing laptop that achieves this within a very usable form factor. There are trade-offs to be made, and so far this *extremely long overdue* refresh is so far looking like it's well balanced. Now, comparing this to previous gen Macbook Pro, is definitely a piss poor comparison.
Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by crweb · 2016-11-14 11:18 · Score: 1

The GTX 650M GTX 750M were both mid-tier laptop GPUs. MacBooks shipped with GT 750M not GTX 750M which is the lowest tier.
Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by Kindaian · 2016-11-14 11:21 · Score: 3, Interesting

The TDP limitations is not only due to heat issues, but also to maintain the battery levels.
Sure you can ran the hardware at a higher speed with more TDP / wats, but you will also drain the batteries way faster.
That is why you will never see one of the "gamer" laptops with better battery then 2 hours (which is nothing as those numbers are of average use).
Not defending the "technical" solutions of Apple, because i think they missed the mark with MBP this time.
The touch bar is a gymnick, and the hardware a bit sub-scale.
I will wait for better CPUs and faster memory / SSD combos... maybe next year?
Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by kuzb · 2016-11-14 11:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

Except if you can't run it with modern hardware because it'll overheat it's not a good design at all. Certainly not deserving of the premium label Apple ascribes to their highest end hardware. This might be different if there weren't tons of laptops already running nvidia's 10 series chipsets, but once again Apple proves that they'd rather sell you old hardware at inflated prices using sub-par designs.

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Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 11:38 · Score: 0

The problem stems from Apple's insistence on using a unibody aluminum chassis without any vent holes
You made it way too easy to know you've never been inside a macbook.
Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by barc0001 · 2016-11-14 13:31 · Score: 1

> But, this isn't a high end desktop replacement gaming laptop, is it?!
No, it's not. But what *is* it trying to be with that sort of mediocre graphics capability? Is it looking to appeal to the multi monitor crowd? If so, why buy a portable computer for that? Most people would go with a workstation for that type of use instead.
It just seems weird they're selling a more powerful GPU but not actually looking to target it to be useful for gaming, which is the market for most people who would drop extra money on a GPU in a laptop. Or a desktop for that matter.. If I'm not going to use this enhanced GPU for gaming, and I'm not going to use it with 3+ monitors, what does it bring to the table that the base model doesn't have?
Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 13:58 · Score: 0

The problem stems from Apple's insistence on using a unibody aluminum chassis without any vent holes.
The vent is in the hinge and it's pretty big as they go. It was there in the PowerBook G4 if not earlier, and in my recent MacBook Pros it's been supplemented by vents on the bottom casing. You sound like one of those people who criticise macs without actually owning one. Believe me, there are plenty of real reasons to be annoyed with macs. You should try using one sometime.
Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by CODiNE · 2016-11-14 14:28 · Score: 1

I mostly agree with your point.
Except I believe laptops really should standardize on passive cooling and sealed enclosures. A vent is just begging to clog up with dust and pet hairs. What percentage of laptop users is capable of maintaining their fans, often by opening up ththe case? Quite few I'd imagine.
So compare a thermally constrained (by design) sealed laptop and a higher TDP laptop clogged up with crap. They're both operating at lowered speeds, but one is dangerous.

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Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by Wrath0fb0b · 2016-11-14 14:50 · Score: 3, Insightful

It's not about modern hardware, it's about hardware with a particular TDP. The engineering choices around the design and the weight/thermal/battery performance gave a certain wattage to be divvied up amongst the components. Maybe you don't like the particular tradeoffs they made, but that's not "bad design".
Those other laptops running Nvidia 10-series chipsets made different tradeoffs. Some are heavier (I saw some on Newegg for 5.5lbs, the MBP is 4.5lbs), some consume battery quicker or take longer to charge. They just picked different points along the power/performance/thermal tradeoff space.
You might as well say a sedan is not a good design because the transmission and tires cannot handle the torque from a sports car engine. Sure you could upgrade the transmission and the tires and the engine, but then you're just asking for a different car entirely.
Re: Not exactly a high bar to clear by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 17:28 · Score: 0

One year from now when every pc maker -wait are there any left ha- has a bigger touch bar that works 15% as well as apples, will it still be a gimmick?
Take your 5lb 45 min battery life gaming rig that cost?$1250 last year... Worth 20% or less original value
Mac from last year that cost $1200- costs 80% of that value. Costs more, retains value
God you /.ers are ignorant
Re: Not exactly a high bar to clear by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 18:25 · Score: 0

ROFL exactly what has Apple led the way on in the laptop space that makes you think anyone would be dumb enough to follow them back down the tried and given up touch bar idea that Apple dregged up from PCs circa 1999? Apple brought one nice idea to the laptop that no one else had the mag-safe connector and now they have abandoned that. Apple is fucked.
Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 19:12 · Score: 0

Define vent hole... are you talking about something you have never seen? Or are you confusing it with the MacBook?
Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by Gr8Apes · 2016-11-15 04:45 · Score: 1

There's an entire segment of computer users that work in imagery and modeling that certainly benefit from better GPUs, and need them when they go on the road. When at home, they can have a multi-monitor setup. Is this so hard to comprehend, or are you that far from a working class computer system?

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Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by kuzb · 2016-11-15 11:35 · Score: 1

That would be pretty awesome, but the bottom line is that performance hardware generates heat - and the heat has to go somewhere. Come up with a way to do this without active fans that won't cook the shit out of someone's lap and you'll have an idea worth real money.

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BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Re:Not exactly a high bar to clear by kuzb · 2016-11-15 11:37 · Score: 0

When you say "premium" what does that mean to you? To me it means I'm getting at or near the most performance possible in that form factor. To you potentially it means something else. However I struggle to find a definition of "premium" that adequately describes the laptops that Apple sells.

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Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by Thelasko · 2016-11-14 11:09 · Score: 0

Sounds like Apple doesn't want to follow standards again...

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The MacBook Pros never had any GTX graphics cards. by crweb · 2016-11-14 11:17 · Score: 2

MacBook Pros always shipped with GT graphics cards not GTX. There is a huge difference in performance between the two. Think 1/2 the clock rate of the ALREADY Mobile GTX 750M

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by PopeRatzo · 2016-11-14 11:20 · Score: 5, Funny

WTF is a "5K" display?

"5k display" refers to how much they cost.

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"Premium" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 11:26 · Score: 0

It's hilarious, Apple keeps shoving dogshit like AMD graphics hardware in to their computers and then tries to call it "premium".

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by LynnwoodRooster · 2016-11-14 11:27 · Score: 1

You sir, win teh Internets for the day! Bravo sir, bravo! :)

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Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by berj · 2016-11-14 11:29 · Score: 4, Informative

Apple has been selling machines with 5K displays for over two years now. Not sure how long LG and Dell (and others) have been selling 5K displays.. but this is definitely not an apple-only thing.

Anyway.. they're great if you want to be able to do things like edit 4K video at full resolution and still have room left over for your editing software GUI.

5 years by 110010001000 · 2016-11-14 11:29 · Score: 1, Interesting

5 years and only a 130% improvement in graphics processing. Moore's Law is dead.

Re:5 years by blindseer · 2016-11-14 12:33 · Score: 1

Even though Moore projected the rate of increased integrated circuit density he also projected it would have to end at some point. We've been seeing the rate of growth slow for some time so no one should be surprised if it ends now.

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Apple replace GPU. You won't believe what happens by viperidaenz · 2016-11-14 11:38 · Score: 3, Funny

Newer, more powerful GPU offers superior performance compared to old ones!
More at 11.

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by viperidaenz · 2016-11-14 11:44 · Score: 2

Usually a 5120x2880 pixel display.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Heat dissipation by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 11:59 · Score: 1

Many people don't understand that apple sacrifices graphics performance for better battery life and cooler and more silent machines. MBP lovers don't care about GPU's. They care their MBP to run silent and not too hot.

Re: Heat dissipation by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 12:29 · Score: 0

I'm willing to bet nearly all the bashers on here have never used a MBP and have no idea how nice they are.
Re:Heat dissipation by Ash-Fox · 2016-11-15 00:12 · Score: 1

Many people don't understand that apple sacrifices graphics performance for better battery life and cooler and more silent machines.
Which is necessary when my Mac's keyboard is too hot touch when just running Second life in the background and sounds like a hovercraft is about to take off.

MBP lovers don't care about GPU's. They care their MBP to run silent and not too hot.
I know, it's just embarassing enough as it is.

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Re:Heat dissipation by Gr8Apes · 2016-11-15 04:48 · Score: 1

Many people don't understand that apple sacrifices graphics performance for better battery life and cooler and more silent machines.
Which is necessary when my Mac's keyboard is too hot touch when just running Second life in the background and sounds like a hovercraft is about to take off.
Sounds like Second Life is poorly programmed, why would it need that many resources in the background to draw that much power?

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Re:Heat dissipation by Ash-Fox · 2016-11-15 04:57 · Score: 1

Sounds like Second Life is poorly programmed
Second life has a fair few issues, but I can reproduce this with anything that pushes CPU and GPU load and the only thing realistically would happen with "better programming" is reduce the use of singletons that block renderering on the GPU and CPU which would increase the loads further.

why would it need that many resources in the background to draw that much power?
Because a lot of user generated content on Second life has a heavy reliance on alphas which is CPU bound, there is no way around that. I should also point out that this is not an issue on PC laptops typically and the same issue exists on Macs regardless of what operating system they're running.

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Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Re:Heat dissipation by Gr8Apes · 2016-11-15 06:58 · Score: 1

Sounds like Second Life is poorly programmed
Second life has a fair few issues, but I can reproduce this with anything that pushes CPU and GPU load and the only thing realistically would happen with "better programming" is reduce the use of singletons that block renderering on the GPU and CPU which would increase the loads further.
Let me rephrase it - if it's in the background (not on a second monitor where the window is in the foreground) perhaps it no longer needs to run the GUI? I don't run Second Life as it wasn't something I was interested in, but it seems to me that regardless of what it's doing, it could be doing it much more efficiently as I've run other games that appear to be much more demanding without having those issues while in the background. Handbrake in the background, yes, peg the CPUs. I'm interested in getting my video processed. Second Life in the background, what's it doing that it needs to suck up that much CPU/GPU cycles?

why would it need that many resources in the background to draw that much power?
Because a lot of user generated content on Second life has a heavy reliance on alphas which is CPU bound, there is no way around that. I should also point out that this is not an issue on PC laptops typically and the same issue exists on Macs regardless of what operating system they're running.
If it's in the background, a whole lot of things don't need to happen. I'll repeat that Second Life appears to be poorly coded, at least as far as their mac code goes.

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Re:Heat dissipation by Ash-Fox · 2016-11-15 11:33 · Score: 1

Let me rephrase it - if it's in the background (not on a second monitor where the window is in the foreground) perhaps it no longer needs to run the GUI?
Honestly, this is getting off topic. The point is that the Mac hardware becomes too hot to touch when applying CPU and GPU load.

I'll repeat that Second Life appears to be poorly coded, at least as far as their mac code goes.
It was just the simplest reproducable example of a load, but if you want other examples that is "programmed right":
- Do a complex scene render in Maya
- Run Civ 5 with just bots competing against each other
- Compile Firefox while running one of the mac 3d screensavers.
These lead to the heating issues described. Also, none of the above cause an issue on non-Mac hardware and again, can reproduce this issue on Windows using Mac hardware.

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Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
Re:Heat dissipation by Gr8Apes · 2016-11-15 12:29 · Score: 1

well, I'm not sure what your point is, honestly. That when you run with CPU/GPU pegged, that it gets hot? So does every other laptop I've ever used. The point was when you're doing "normal" workloads, that it runs relatively cool and silent. I can even get mine to run cool, albeit at about 35% rendering speed, with video processing running, but that's the trade-off: more speed, more heat. I had an Alienware gaming laptop a couple of years ago and can tell you that you wouldn't want it on your lap unless you were in Siberia, in early January, even when you were just reading email. Not to mention it weighed a ton and had shitty battery life to top it off.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.
Re:Heat dissipation by Ash-Fox · 2016-11-15 19:59 · Score: 1

well, I'm not sure what your point is, honestly. That when you run with CPU/GPU pegged, that it gets hot?
Right, you didn't read what I previously wrote:

Which is necessary when my Mac's keyboard is too hot touch

As in, I am likely to burn myself if I were to touch it. This despite all the underclocking and so on.
The only other laptops I have ever handled that are comparable to this are over a decade ago, which were Sony Vaios. I have access to current and last generation laptops from HP, Dell, ASUS, Lenovo and Apple on a regular basis and there is one one brand in that list that currently ends up becoming too hot to touch when under heavy workloads (as happens in my line of work), which happens to be the one that underclocks it's processors and GPUs too, regardless of which operating system it's running.

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Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.

CPU options interesting by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 12:05 · Score: 0

never mind the GPU options,

but with quad core CPUs basically extinct except in gaming laptops (with unusable battery life and durability) and mobile workstations (exceeding apple prices), the MacbookPro seems a cheap option to get a good quad core machine (e.g., compared to lenovo P-series).

Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 12:08 · Score: 2

I'm about to buy a 15" MacBook pro because I have to and I need to dual boot linux. Does anyone know if the new touch strip will work with linux?

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Re: Question by wosmo · 2016-11-14 12:18 · Score: 2

I've only heard one report so far, and it wasn't good - no support for the keyboard or trackpad, let alone the touch strip. (Apparently because they're SPI devices rather than USB). I'd advise a cursory google.
Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 12:19 · Score: 1

I'm about to buy a 15" MacBook pro because I have to and I need to dual boot linux. Does anyone know if the new touch strip will work with linux?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu/comments/5c8s1k/warning_2016_macbook_pro_is_not_compatible_with/
Before committing few grand of your cash maybe one Google search would be in order ?
Re: Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 12:25 · Score: 1

I did googling and couldn't really find anything.. Well in that case that sucks. I'll have a $3K+ machine that I won't be able to use for anything but xcode. Maybe I should scale back the model that I'm getting.

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Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:Question by angel'o'sphere · 2016-11-14 12:27 · Score: 1

It likely makes more sense to run Linux in a VirtualBox than dual booting.
Or in two, or three or as many VirtualBoxes you need.

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Re:Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 12:34 · Score: 1

Yeah, of course then the fact that the base 15" model only comes with a 256Gb drive becomes a problem quickly but I thought of doing that. I do web and Android development in linux and I'm concerned how the VM might impact compile time.

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Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 12:40 · Score: 1

Yeah these are only 4 days old.. so cut me some slack.

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Re:Question by angel'o'sphere · 2016-11-14 12:54 · Score: 1

VMs cost about 1%-3% processor time overhead. In my opinion that is neglectible.
Android development (and likely all web stuff you want to do) you can do on Mac OS X as well. Makes no sense to run Eclipse in a VM to do Android stuff if you simply can run it under Mac OS X.

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Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Re:Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 13:33 · Score: 0

Except that OSX isn't made for people who need to use the keyboard. Everything seems to requre the touchpad. I prefer linux for that kind of work. OSX is fine for reading email and browsing the web.

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Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:Question by angel'o'sphere · 2016-11-14 13:39 · Score: 1

No, you can do everything via keyboard on OS X.
Just exchange the ctrl key for the command key. 99% of the time it is even the sameckey binding. E.g. ctrl-F for find is cmd-F in OS X, obviously.
You can even remap ctrl to cmd and and vive versa. (System preferences)
However remapping the keys wont help you in a shell/Terminal.app as ctrl keys have a defined meaning in a terminal/shell.

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Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Re:Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 13:43 · Score: 1

But then I try to ctrl-shift-end to select to the end of the line and that won't work, so it's back to the touchpad. There are a lot of little things like this and I find that it interrupts my work.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 14:01 · Score: 0

Do you often use other laptops that have a dedicated End key?
Re:Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 14:07 · Score: 1

I've always had a Thinkpad, and they have always had them yes.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 14:17 · Score: 0

Ctrl-a to front of line. Ctrl-e to end of line. Compose with shift to select.
Re:Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 14:21 · Score: 1

I know that, but ctrl-shift-e doesn't select to end of line. I've looked for a substitute but was unable to find one.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 14:29 · Score: 0

Obviously software not using the system text view can change behavior... but it works for me everywhere I've tried except Terminal.app (which leaves cursor handling to the shell). Works in this edit box...
Re:Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 14:32 · Score: 1

Doesn't work in xcode

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re: Question by ogdenk · 2016-11-14 15:04 · Score: 1

Or use a VM until the driver support is there. You may be able to set up a cross-compile environment of some sort too.
Re:Question by friedmud · 2016-11-14 15:08 · Score: 2

Works perfectly for me.
Tested in Safari, XCode and TextEdit
However, I never use that because I'm always in Emacs and "ctrl+space" - "ctrl+e" is the business ;-)
Re: Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 15:48 · Score: 1

Has never worked for me, don't know why.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re: Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-14 15:49 · Score: 1

Yeah well I have to buy one anyway so I might as well so that.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re: Question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 16:22 · Score: 0

Try command right arrow and command left arrow. Add shift to select. Doesn't work in terminal.
Re:Question by Unknown+Relic · 2016-11-14 17:52 · Score: 1

On Apple laptops the fn key coupled with the left arrow and right arrow maps to the home button and end button. So shift + function + right can give you the behaviour you want. By default home and end behave slightly differently on OS X, but that can be easily fixed to make them behave as you'd expect:
http://apple.stackexchange.com...
Re:Question by AHuxley · 2016-11-14 19:43 · Score: 1

Like thinkpad support it will take a while and then just work on most distros. Until then it will be hard work.

--
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 19:50 · Score: 0

so cut me some slack.
Around here? You'll be lucky ;)
Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 19:53 · Score: 0

Command-Shift-Right Arrow/Left Arrow
Substitute Option for Command to select a word at a time.
Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-15 04:48 · Score: 0

I'm about to buy a 15" MacBook pro because I have to and I need to dual boot linux. Does anyone know if the new touch strip will work with linux?
I hope you're not a vi user.
Re: Question by ogdenk · 2016-11-15 07:33 · Score: 1

I would spend the couple bucks on VMWare Fusion. VirtualBox under OSX works OK but VMWare Fusion seems to perform better, integrates nicer and seems to be more feature-complete and less buggy on the Mac side. I would also not stick with the 256GB SSD. You might want to order it with a bigger one or find a decent third party one if you are confident tearing apart a laptop.
Re: Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-15 09:52 · Score: 1

I was going to do the third party thing but I was kind of afraid that it wouldn't be user replaceable in these new models, or Apple would refuse to support me or claim my warranty is void.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re: Question by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-15 09:55 · Score: 0

Fusion on the vmware site is $119! Where do I get it for 'a couple bucks'?
Re:Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-15 13:03 · Score: 1

So ctrl-e goes to end of line, but command-shift-rightarrow selects to end of line. Yeah that's not confusing at all.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re: Question by ogdenk · 2016-11-15 13:05 · Score: 1

$79.99 on VMWare's site. Compared to a lot of packages I've had to buy in the past it's pretty damn cheap. Take a look at VMWare ESXi licenses some time. If $79.99 is too expensive, why are you buying a $3000 boutique laptop? Small price to pay for pretty much the best virtualization environment in existence.
You can always use VirtualBox. VMWare is well worth the money though. Parallels is about the same price but FOSS OS support is a little weaker IIRC.
There's also this bay I've heard about, you might try there if you drained your bank account after the mac purchase.
Re:Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-15 13:05 · Score: 1

As a matter of fact I am. I tried emacs for months but the control keys just didn't feel right to me.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re: Question by fluffernutter · 2016-11-15 13:13 · Score: 1

Oh this is precious...

https://apple.slashdot.org/sto...

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Re: Question by ogdenk · 2016-11-15 13:18 · Score: 1

Booooo..... dick move. Even my Macbook Air has a replaceable SSD and battery.
Re:Question by angel'o'sphere · 2016-11-15 15:44 · Score: 1

Perhaps because it is: cmd-shift-rightarrow and not ctrl-shift-end?
Unfortunately the POS1 and END keys on Macs don't do what they do on windows, one of the biggest flaws on Macs :-/

--
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.

Re: Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 12:20 · Score: 0

I think you can only connect to a single external monitor with a new MacBook. That's all we've been able to do.

Re: WTF is a "5K" display? by bursch-X · 2016-11-14 12:34 · Score: 1

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. ROFLMAO. Tell that all the pros who have been doing this for quite a while. ðY£ðYðY£ðYðY£ðY

--
There are two rules for success:
1. Never tell everything you know.

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by blindseer · 2016-11-14 12:37 · Score: 1

You say that as if it is a bad thing. If the "standard" greeting is a kick to the balls then please forgive me if I ask that I be greeted with a "nonstandard" handshake, tip of the hat, or nod of the head.

--
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.

Ha ha by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 12:42 · Score: 1

Too right!

>.the Nvidia GeForce GTX 650M, Nvidia GeForce GTX 750M

These are seriously old chips. A laptop with a GTX 950M is the lowest acceptable for any gaming PC and won't give high framerates. A GTX 965M is decent, and from there it gets better. Seriously laptop gamers will go for a GTX 980M. On desktops a GTX 1060 is the lowest you'll want to go, with GTX 1080 top of the line.

The 650M and 750M are seriously prehistoric GPUs which I doubt you could even find in a modern laptop they are so old. So why are they being used as a benchmark for this?

Apple have convinced the latte-sipping hipsters to pay top dollar for low performance PCs with cheap chiclet keyboards. Fucking morons.

Re: Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 12:46 · Score: 0

We haven't been able to get any external monitors to work with the new MacBooks. That is sad because the old ones easily worked with two external monitors with the HDMI port and a Thunderbolt to DVI dongle.

Re: Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 12:49 · Score: 0

Pro no longer means pro. We haven't been able to get any external monitors to work on our new MacBooks.

Re: Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 13:17 · Score: 0

They removed the HDMI port. I don't think you're supposed to be able to connect to a monitor.

Re: Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 13:27 · Score: 0

They sell s dongle that is supposed to work, but we haven't been able to get it to work. I don't think the new MacBooks support an external monitor.

Aren't both equally bad? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 13:34 · Score: 0

I mean, you only need a simple GPU to view youtube and have nice window animations. For gaming none of them are good enough.

Re: Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 13:35 · Score: 0

I don't think he new MacBooks were made to be connected to an external monitor.

Re:Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't... by Blaskowicz · 2016-11-14 13:42 · Score: 1

I would have recommended something from Plugable, as I did read about tb3 docks and tb3 to multiple display adapters though I wasn't really looking for them. I liked how they explained things, even recommending the USB-C to dual hdmi adapter over USB-C to dual displayport if you don't need the bandwith or if you need VGA. They explained in detail what the dual displayport version does better or doesn't do and I just liked the way they did, although perhaps they're simply concerned about customers buying the wrong thing and returning it.

The website has changed already, different pages, Thunderbolt 3 docks removed and the dual hdmi adapter renamed to "Plugable Thunderbolt 3 Dual HDMI Adapter for Windows". good hint at what it doesn't run on!
So, they still strive to be helpful and informative, but they had to double down on harsh technical realities. Not sure why the Mac is really incompatible, but the whole Thunderbolt display output on USB-C thing is a new fest of incompatible firmware and OS updates, and sometimes hardware limitation.

www.plugable.com/products/tbt3-hdmi2x
http://plugable.com/products/t...

I would not be surprised if there are issues on some PC laptops running linux either.
An article about woes with DisplayLink adapters i.e., actual USB 3.0. Otherwise this is a fallback if you don't mind a slower display.
http://plugable.com/2016/09/21...
And yes, what a stupid clusterfuck that the one thing the new macbook's connectors are supposed to be great for isn't working. Unexpected? the slashdot headline boasts about external displays, must be why it doesn't work.

Re:TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 14:03 · Score: 0

Jamal? My name is Colin.

Re: WTF is a "5K" display? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 14:05 · Score: 0

Ha ha ha ha ha ha. ROFLMAO

I am totally LMAO right now too dude! ROFL TOP KEK BBQ EZPZ!

Fucking idiot.

Displayport 1.2 limitation by manu0601 · 2016-11-14 14:10 · Score: 1

How can AMD beat Intel if Intel's limitation if from Displayport 1.2 bandwith limit? Later in the paper, Displayport 1.3 is ruled out because of low adoption, so where is the AMD trick?

Re:Displayport 1.2 limitation by default+luser · 2016-11-14 18:08 · Score: 1

Multi-stream transport over Thunderbolt. Basicallly split the screen in half, so each stream is under the maximum bandwidth.
Each stream = 1 display.
But I'm having trouble believing this thing can do TWO 5k displays simultaneously at 60Hz. According to the review on Ars Technica, the first Thunderbolt controller has four lanes of PCIe, while the second Thunderbolt controller only has 2 lanes of PCIE 3.0 = 16Gbps max bandwidth.
4k @ 60Hz requires 14Gbps, and 5k at 60Hz is 80% more pixels, so around 25Gbps. That will be closer to 30Hz on the slower controller, unless you know something I don't?

--
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
Re:Displayport 1.2 limitation by sexconker · 2016-11-14 18:24 · Score: 1

Polaris parts support HDMI 2.0 and DisplayPort 1.4 with HDR.
I don't know what the MacBook Pro is passing things over, via how many ports, or what the monitor expects, but you can get a subset of a DisplayPort signal over the latest Thunderbolt / USB shit.
Re:Displayport 1.2 limitation by sexconker · 2016-11-14 18:27 · Score: 1

Chroma subsampling (4:2:2 or 4:2:0) and the realtime compression (DisplayPort 1.3 and up I believe) are ways they drive high res displays over a single cable @ 60 Hz. I'd sooner find out how many toothpicks I could fit in my urethra than drive a 5K display with subsampled chroma, however.
Re:Displayport 1.2 limitation by tlhIngan · 2016-11-15 05:32 · Score: 1

Multi-stream transport over Thunderbolt. Basicallly split the screen in half, so each stream is under the maximum bandwidth.
Each stream = 1 display.
But I'm having trouble believing this thing can do TWO 5k displays simultaneously at 60Hz. According to the review on Ars Technica, the first Thunderbolt controller has four lanes of PCIe, while the second Thunderbolt controller only has 2 lanes of PCIE 3.0 = 16Gbps max bandwidth.
4k @ 60Hz requires 14Gbps, and 5k at 60Hz is 80% more pixels, so around 25Gbps. That will be closer to 30Hz on the slower controller, unless you know something I don't?
Ah, but a DisplayPort doesn't consume PCIe bandwidth. Thunderbolt 3 gives you a combined bandwidth of 40Gbps total.
So every port can do 40Gbps, and running 5K consumes what, 25Gbps, leaving 15Gbps for PCIe. So even though the other two ports only have PCIe x2, that leaves more bandwidth for DisplayPort. So an ideal high bandwidth configuration would be to plug both 5K displays on that port, so you're not really losing too much bandwidth over PCIe.

Re:TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 14:11 · Score: 0

Jamal? I hardly know them.

Re: TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 16:56 · Score: 0

Are you a Gunther a former migrant from Afghanistan, or a real Gunther? Still nobody cares what you think.

Stock up now by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 17:00 · Score: 0

Interest rates are already going up so you'd best purchase your dream machine now if you are buying on credit. A year from now credit card interest rates will be as high as they ever have been regardless of how good your credit score is.

Re: TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 17:13 · Score: 0

Too bad that AMD is paired to a stupid lame emoji bar.

Bhahaha by Billly+Gates · 2016-11-14 17:38 · Score: 1

Let me know know when it can do 1080P gaming from beyond 2010 Applefan boys!

What a joke as the 450 is about as bad as integrated graphics. They lost all credibility as I am sure it can not do anything that Apple says as they are so horrible and slower than the 2013 low end PS4/xbox graphics and they want to do 5k editing!!??

Why couldn't they updated the graphics. Shoot even the AMD Rx 460 the highest end one is easily beaten by a superior $80 Nvidia 1050 (non ti).

--
http://saveie6.com/

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by Plumpaquatsch · 2016-11-14 22:23 · Score: 1

WTF is a "5K" display?

"5k display" refers to how much they cost.

Yeah. At least from Dell, that was about right. And then the iMac with 5k Display cost less than then the announced price from Dell just for the monitor with the same display.

--
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-14 23:41 · Score: 1

In what apple calls a 5K iMac, they use a little hardware trick to render pages offscreen at a 5120x2880 resolution, then downscale it in the GPU to the actual 2560x1440 pixels of the panel.

A 5K iMac *does not actually have 5120x2880 worth of pixels*. It's a purely scaled display. The downscaling trick lets them get away with some nice smoothing effects onscreen, but you just have to take a look at a 27" 2560x1440 panel and a supposed 5K iMac panel to see there's no noticable difference.

Where it really kicks in is you can pick other resolutions and they're all scaled using the same method, so something like 1600x900 on the "5k" iMac looks a lot better than the default panel scaling, but it's only a software trick all the same.

Re: Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't... by Ash-Fox · 2016-11-15 00:16 · Score: 1

Isn't eGPU supported on the USB-C interfaces though?

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.

Re: Maybe I'm missing something, but I can't... by Ash-Fox · 2016-11-15 00:18 · Score: 1

They removed the HDMI port. I don't think you're supposed to be able to connect to a monitor.

Don't they support eGPU over the USB-C ports though?

--
Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.

Re: TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-15 01:09 · Score: 0

Even better than nobody cares about what you think either.

no shit by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-15 01:15 · Score: 0

The 650M, 750M, etc are 3 and 4 GPU generations old. Of course a new AMD card is faster.

DERP

*disclaimer: not pro Nvidia or AMD, just anti-Apple never getting on the damn GPU bandwagon

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-15 01:47 · Score: 0

So they've discovered anti-aliasing? :V

Not what you asked, but... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-15 03:39 · Score: 0

If you don't need Mac OSX, there are plenty of nice Linux laptops out there... DELL even makes some...

Re:Not what you asked, but... by fluffernutter · 2016-11-15 13:06 · Score: 1

That's the point, I have to have OSX for iOS development. Otherwise I would never consider making a mac my development machine.

--
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.

Yeah, and? by ilsaloving · 2016-11-15 03:50 · Score: 1

Considering it's a brand new machine, I would *expect* that the GPU would be better.

Also considering that the base model starts at three freaking grand, I expect that GPU to be even be able to play Crysis at max settings!

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by Gr8Apes · 2016-11-15 04:18 · Score: 1

Yeah, that $10K mac pro just isn't cut out to do much more than browse /.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by Gr8Apes · 2016-11-15 04:21 · Score: 1

AC, for a reason I guess, like perhaps we'd label him a trolling idiot on multiple fronts: Apple is calling the new screen a “Retina 5K display,” and says it's the world's highest resolution computer screen at 5120-by-2880 pixels. (Dell might argue that it shares that crown, but its display won't actually ship until the fourth quarter.) At 217 pixels per inch, the pixel density is just a smidge lower than that of Apple's MacBook Pro with Retina Display, though it's safe to assume most users would keep the iMac screen further away than a laptop.

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The cesspool just got a check and balance.

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by Gr8Apes · 2016-11-15 04:22 · Score: 1

5K is better for computers, offers simple scaling from 2K displays.

--
The cesspool just got a check and balance.

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-15 09:23 · Score: 0

Discovered??? Hell apple invented it.

Apple is so awesome! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-15 11:52 · Score: 0

Do you think Dell, etc. would ever have the guts to put a mid-level graphics card in their their high-end, "pro" laptops?

Once again, Apple shows how courageous they are.

Re:WTF is a "5K" display? by Coren22 · 2016-11-23 08:30 · Score: 1

I have to say, my $2k 2014 home server blows the Mac pro out of the water...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...

But, I guess when people want a fashionable computer to fart around with, the Mac Pro fits the bill for approximately 2x the cost.

--
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?

Slashdot Mirror

New MacBook Pro's Dedicated AMD Graphics Chips Are 'Significantly' Faster and Support Dual 5K Displays (macrumors.com)

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