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Chinese Scientists Become First To Use CRISPR Gene-Editing On Humans (popularmechanics.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Popular Mechanics: A team of Chinese scientists from Sichuan University in Chengdu have become the first to inject a person with cells modified with the gene-editing tool CRISPR-Cas9. The trial involved modifying a patient's own immune system cells to make them more effective at combating cancer cells and then injecting them back into the patient. The Chinese trial was approved back in July, and United States medical scientists also plan to use CRISPR as an experimental treatment for cancer patients in early 2017. The CRISPR-Cas9 "tool" is a DNA construct that can be injected into any organism -- in this case, human immune system T cells -- to modify the genome of that organism. It works in three steps: an RNA sequence guides the CRISPR construct to the correct part of the organism's DNA, the Cas9 enzyme "cuts out" that segment of DNA, and then, as an optional third step, a new DNA sequence can be inserted to replace the deleted segment of the genome. In the case of the Chinese trial, conducted October 28 at the West China Hospital in Chengdu, only the first two steps of the CRISPR-Cas9 process were carried out. Immune system cells were extracted from a patient with metastatic lung cancer, and then the gene code that produces a protein called PD-1 was deleted by the Cas9 enzyme. PD-1 instructs T cells to stop or slow an immune system response, and cancer cells can take advantage of this protein to trick the body into responding to the ailment with less than full force. Once the PD-1 protein was removed with CRISPR, the edited cells were cultivated to increase their numbers and then injected back into the patient. This is the first of two injections for the patient, and an additional nine patients in the trial will receive between two and four injections of edited cells, depending on their individual conditions. Carl June, scientific advisor for the planned U.S. trial, told Nature: "I think this is going to trigger 'Sputnik 2.0,' a biomedical duel in progress between China and the United States, which is important since competition usually improves the end product."

114 comments

  1. khaaaaaaan! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Superhumans are not far now.

    1. Re:khaaaaaaan! by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 1

      Doesn't take much to be superhuman, mind you. Immunity to a particular evolutionary pathway of metastatic lung cancer isn't exactly power armour and man-portable grenade rifles.

    2. Re:khaaaaaaan! by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      What about being able to photosynthesize :D

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    3. Re:khaaaaaaan! by lowkeyknight · · Score: 1

      Negligible on a mammal of human size/surface area.

    4. Re:khaaaaaaan! by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      eating is far better than having to lay in the sun all day every day all day every day.

      anyways - did it even work? sounds like a lot of "Ladder to heaven" stuff before that... especially the us advisors comment. does it work- is it a cure for cancer or not?

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      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    5. Re:khaaaaaaan! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Metahuman race is now on.

      I sincerely doubt we're going to see much from this actually. We may be able to "fix bugs" in our DNA but creating metahumans/superhumans is an entirely other level of understanding we don't have. Right now the kind of DNA tinkering we can do is akin to transplanting organs. Sure we can make corn naturally secrete an enzyme that makes insects not like it, but the corn itself ends up having a bitter poison-like taste to mammals too. Yet growing this for HFCS, ethanol and feedstock people don't really care that much.

      There will be a point where someone really wants to make their furry child, or catgirl/catboy or some other chimera that will start the "does a metahuman pose a threat? Are metahumans still human? Should we register them all, and make sure they are sterilized?" Basically everything that Gay children were subjected to.

      They say, that once changes to the genome enter the germline (eg viable children) then we are no longer in control of our destiny. All it takes is one DNA change "must-have" (let's say for the sake of argument that white people want blond-hair blue-eye children, despite not having the traits for it) Then suddenly there is a huge increase in blonde-hair-blue-eye children that don't have the related genetic traits to protect them from sunburn. Suddenly blond-haired children everywhere spontaneously combust when subjected to the weather of Florida. I jest, but the entire reason that Humanity has skin tone is to protect from skin damage. White people were supposed to live on the northern and southern-most tips of their continental land masses. Black people were supposed to live in the deserts and tropical regions. People with middle skin tones were supposed to live in sub-arctic to temperate climates. The fact that white people seem over-represented in the Northern US and Northern Europe is not a mistake, that is genetically the preferred climate.

      Past a certain point Humanity will just divide itself into "Purists/Technophobics", and those who embrace technology or genetic tampering to improve themselves.

    6. Re:khaaaaaaan! by Immerman · · Score: 1

      The thing is, we don't necessarily have to understand things to splice them in, just identify the cause. There are plenty of mutants walking around with all sorts of "superpowers". Immunity to high blood cholesterol. Especially high intelligence. Superstrength (doubled muscle production). And many, many more where the gene responsible has already been identified. Some come at a cost, either as a direct side effect, or as a risk factor for descendants who get two copies of the gene, but others don't seem to. And splicing in a whole bunch of "superpowers" that already exist in the wild into a single individual could well result in someone substantially superhuman. Assuming there's minimal negative interactions between mutations at least.

      Essentially, it could deliver the benefits of hundreds of generations of selective breeding in a single generation, while retaining virtually all of the genetics of the "primary parents" - i.e. it would still be "your" child, just... better.

      Dramatic chimeras will of course require far better understanding, but there's actually a surprising amount of variation already in the gene pool - for your furry example, features like tails, dramatically mobile ears, and exceptionally heavy body hair already exist in the population and have probably been isolated to certain genes as well. Just think of every freak show oddity that has wandered the fringes of society - any oddity that can be traced to a particular gene can be added to the genetic engineer's palette while the results remain 100% human. Bringing them together in an aesthetically pleasing fashion... that's probably going to be more of a challenge.

      And of course there's the other elephant in the room: CRISPR isn't 100% accurate, and if you're making a lot of edits you're liable to introduce a few errors as well. Not a big deal if you're making research animals... more so if you're making people.

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    7. Re:khaaaaaaan! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not both?

    8. Re:khaaaaaaan! by MiniMike · · Score: 3, Funny

      Just have to add leaves and supporting structures too then. It would be a whole new branch of humanity.

    9. Re:khaaaaaaan! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also solves a non-problem (caloric intake). As the people who don't have access to adequate calories to thrive won't be the ones engineering their children.

      It might work as a way to get skinny chicks to spend more time naked in public if that's your thing. Though they'll probably be green.

    10. Re:khaaaaaaan! by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      Nah, boring. What I want is the ability to breathe underwater, see clearly underwater without a mask, not get the bends, and better thermoregulation. Man, just imagine being able to free dive in (the rapidly dying) coral reefs.

      --
      The more people I meet, the better I like my dog.
  2. This can't end well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We'll probably figure out how to cure cancer shortly before someone unleashes an extinction virus on the world. This is probably why we can't find any alien civilizations.

    1. Re:This can't end well. by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Funny

      Nope. It won't be an extinction virus. China will create one to wipe out the U.S., the U.S. will create one to wipe out the Middle East, the Middle East will create one to wipe out Israel, Israel will create one to wipe out Koreans (North Korea, in particular), which will end up also wiping out the Chinese, and the North Koreans will create one to wipe out western Europe, who will wipe out Russia. The good news is that Madagascar will survive.

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    2. Re:This can't end well. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      It won't be an extinction virus. China will create one to wipe out the U.S., the U.S. will create one to wipe out the Middle East, the Middle East

      Israel will create one to wipe out Palestinians, and boy, will they be in for a surprise.

      --
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    3. Re:This can't end well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ha haaa semitic genetics.

    4. Re:This can't end well. by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      The good news is that Madagascar will survive.

      They always do.

    5. Re:This can't end well. by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      It is hard to keep a singing dancing lemur down...
      If he didn't have that funny accent he would be running the planet already.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecSCaZ_XPlo

      --
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    6. Re:This can't end well. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The good news is that Madagascar will survive.

      They always do.

      Not always.

    7. Re: This can't end well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure your post was from a darkie. Or at minimum a murkie.

    8. Re:This can't end well. by Nostalgia4Infinity · · Score: 2

      Israel could wipe out the Palestinians any time they want.

    9. Re:This can't end well. by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      Elephant birds

      Jesus christ how horrifying

    10. Re:This can't end well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you're not too far off the mark. ( I can't believe something I saw in a early 2000's TV show (Dark Angel) is close to true, haha)

      China will create something that kills off an enemy, it will likely target the presence or absense of the asian eye skinfolds. But because that genetic trait is linked to other things, it ends up killing off more population than they anticipated, and a bio-tech cure will be found just in time to save the day.

      The entire middle-east vs Israel thing is a funny problem that could not be resolved this way because they are all genetic related, but it would be possible to kill off one segment of Israelies by targeting Ashkenazi Jews, which will instead kill off most of the middle-east. Don't give the wannabe-himmlers of the world any ideas.

       

    11. Re:This can't end well. by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Elephant birds

      Jesus christ how horrifying

      . . . and when one of these critters would decide to take a dump on your car windshield . . . ?

      Definitely worth a "Mythbusters" episode.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    12. Re:This can't end well. by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "We'll probably figure out how to cure cancer shortly before someone unleashes an extinction virus on the world. "

      The technology to create something like an extinction virus is also the technology to knock out viruses.
      There will only be an extinction virus if every country recuses from using tools like CRISPR, because that would leave us vulnerable to the first extinction virus developed through hybridization.

    13. Re:This can't end well. by Coisiche · · Score: 1

      Could be interesting in countries where interpreters of an old holy text have a significant influence on government policy and usually say that Deity would not approve of such technology.

    14. Re:This can't end well. by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Well, if the 'Space Race' comparison holds, a non-weaponization treaty isn't far off. I hope.

    15. Re:This can't end well. by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Just semantics.

    16. Re:This can't end well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just semantics.

      But they are anti-semantic.

    17. Re:This can't end well. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      It won't be an extinction virus. China will create one to wipe out the U.S., the U.S. will create one to wipe out the Middle East, the Middle East

      Israel will create one to wipe out Palestinians, and boy, will they be in for a surprise.

      Well played sir - well played indeed!

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    18. Re:This can't end well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would Israel bother, even if they wanted to? The other Arab countries like killing them even more than you fantasize the Israelis do.

    19. Re:This can't end well. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Could be interesting in countries where interpreters of an old holy text have a significant influence on government policy and usually say that Deity would not approve of such technology.

      My first thought. A case study might be Lysenkoism. It wasn't based on religion, but of ideology. And ideals, religion or otherwise, can trump truth - for a short time.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    20. Re:This can't end well. by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      Because of Grammar Nazis.

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    21. Re:This can't end well. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're assuming that population genetics in the 21st century can be that easily differentiated. That is not remotely possible.

    22. Re:This can't end well. by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Of course not. That's part of what makes the joke funny. It's sort of a meta-joke.

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      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    23. Re:This can't end well. by NoSalt · · Score: 1

      The good news is that Madagascar will survive.

      I like to move it, move it ...

  3. Watch and wait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Chinese science runs the gamut from "top notch and comparable to the West" all the way down to "my bottle of mystery formula will cure all cancer give me money now". This thing could be either one or something in between. I'll believe it when it passes peer review and gets published in a high quality journal.

    Second thing. Based on the little that I've read about CRISPER-cas9, it's not fully under control yet. When they try to use this to cut/replace a gene, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't... aka sticks something where it isn't supposed to, or puts in a double length of the gene, or something like that. I'm not a genetic engineering expert.

    Lots of work like this coming in the next several years. Hope it makes progress.

    1. Re:Watch and wait by lowkeyknight · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Chinese science runs the gamut from "top notch and comparable to the West" all the way down to "my bottle of mystery formula will cure all cancer give me money now".

      So, it runs Exactly the Same Gamut as the west then. Only we call our Mystery Formula "Homeopathy", and get insurance to pay for it.

    2. Re:Watch and wait by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      That's being pretty blind to the miracle cure fake stuff and programs sold in the western world. Homeopathy, vitamin supplements, etc .. it's all the same crap, just named and marketed in culturally compatible ways.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    3. Re:Watch and wait by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Yeah, CRISPR has issues that would make me leery of editing the human germ line, but this sort of thing actually seems pretty viable - isolate a bunch of cells, modify them, and then cultivate them into a much larger population. Any serious errors are likely to interfere with the cultivation stage, so the vast majority of the cells reintroduced to the patient are liable to be successful edits. If the edit actually makes them substantially more effective at attacking some cancers, then it seems like this should work wonderfull, assuming none of the surviving errors lead them to attack healthy tissue. For example, supercharged T cells with a taste for nerve tissue could be horrifying. But if you're dying of metastasized cancer, the tiny risk is probably worth it.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  4. *First to ADMIT to using CRISPR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Edited title for accuracy.

  5. Do it, do it now! by argumentsockpuppet · · Score: 1

    What could go wrong?

    Cancer. Death. Disease. Things we already have and could potentially cure with this.

    People could die. People will die, with or without this. Maybe, just maybe, this could mean fewer people dying unnecessary deaths.

    Is this a moon shot? No. This has the possibility of saving millions of lives. Millions of people who have the potential to make the world better, for all of humanity, for the species. Most importantly, this has the potential to make the world better for the people who don't die and for the people they don't leave behind. Soon, and it cannot happen soon enough!

    1. Re:Do it, do it now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unless it's the next Hitler, Stalin, PolPot, and so on.

    2. Re:Do it, do it now! by SemperUbi · · Score: 5, Informative

      This particular use of CRISPR-Cas9 should be pretty low risk. Tumors are often surrounded by lymphocytes, cells which ordinarily have the power to kill cancer cells -- but many cancers give off signals that cause the lymphocytes to ignore tumors cells and let them grow. It's like the mafia buying off the local cops. Modifying tumor-reactive lymphocytes ex vivo might wake them up and help them do their job and go after the tumor again. In a patient with terminal cancer, this treatment should be pretty low risk and could give him a bit longer to live.

    3. Re:Do it, do it now! by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Refusing someone the cure for cancer on the chance that they might turn out super evil is simply cruel, given that the surrounding community ought to have measures other than "let him/her die of cancer" at their disposal to prevent that.

    4. Re:Do it, do it now! by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      In a patient with terminal cancer, this treatment should be pretty low risk and could give him a bit longer to live.

      Im sure they said the same thing about Lex Luthor...

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    5. Re:Do it, do it now! by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 0

      This has the possibility of saving millions of lives. Millions of people who have the potential to make the world better, for all of humanity, for the species.

      It's also millions of people who have the potential to make the world worse. And something tells me the people who get this will be your Dick Cheneys, not your Mahatma Gandhis.

    6. Re: Do it, do it now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It could go fucking I Am Legend wrong is what could go wrong!!!

    7. Re:Do it, do it now! by tsa · · Score: 1

      This so supercool! With one modification you releave a family from certain horrible genes for all generations from then on! Finally daughters can be born without the breast cancer gene that gave their mothers and grandmothers this horrible disease.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    8. Re:Do it, do it now! by tsa · · Score: 1

      Luckily gut feelings turn out to be mostly wrong.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    9. Re:Do it, do it now! by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

      It's not luck or gut feelings, just probability.

    10. Re:Do it, do it now! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      And something tells me the people who get this will be your Dick Cheneys, not your Mahatma Gandhis.

      You should read more about Gandhi's personal life. In many ways, including the way he treated his wife and children, he was a pretty despicable human being.

    11. Re:Do it, do it now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Human ingenuity is by default an improvement over random chance that produces kids with no arms and legs or brains on a routine basis.

    12. Re:Do it, do it now! by sg_oneill · · Score: 1

      In a patient with terminal cancer, this treatment should be pretty low risk and could give him a bit longer to live.

      Assuming the organ damage isnt too far gone , it could damn well save the patient.

      --
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    13. Re:Do it, do it now! by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

      I buy that. Even more to my point. Saving lives should be the last thing on anybody's mind.

    14. Re:Do it, do it now! by EmeraldBot · · Score: 1

      This has the possibility of saving millions of lives. Millions of people who have the potential to make the world better, for all of humanity, for the species.

      It's also millions of people who have the potential to make the world worse. And something tells me the people who get this will be your Dick Cheneys, not your Mahatma Gandhis.

      While I have yet to see an Adolf Hitler arise out of an ALS patient, we did get Stephen Hawking. Furthermore, cancer comes so late in life that by then they'd already be in power, or you'd already know what their personality is like.

      --
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    15. Re:Do it, do it now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, no: this isn't an inheritable edit of the patient's genome, it's a genetically-customized cancer treatment.

    16. Re:Do it, do it now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, this.

      It seems the more we look in to a large number of cancers, it is them having developed the mutations needed to say, "hey, immune system, get outta here nuthin happenin here!" and the immune system just goes on its way like any trusting cell.
      Others don't and promptly get destroyed by the immune system. (any healthy adult, really)

      There's been a bunch of varied ways cancer tricks the immune system, especially with the stem cells they send around to spread around the body.
      If we can successfully find a trigger for those, we could almost instantly eliminate the majority of risk associated with cancers in the first place: secondary tumors.
      Cancer is, for the most part, only so bad because it can spread so easily.

    17. Re:Do it, do it now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As other AC put it, Crispr is currently about 30% efficient (I think..), i.e. 7 out of 10 cells treated won't integrate the modification. It's also very difficult to confirm whether the modification succeeded. That means you really can't do it in a grown organism unless you culture and select cells outside of the body and implant them.

      It can be used on ova however, but the ethics committees are understandably nervous about heritable modifications. I wouldn't be surprised if in 10-20 years we'll be hearing about some crazy stuff that was tried in private clinics in poorly regulated parts of the world.

    18. Re:Do it, do it now! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 0, Troll

      "It's also millions of people who have the potential to make the world worse. And something tells me the people who get this will be your Dick Cheneys, not your Mahatma Gandhis."

      This is the Green argument in favor of human extinction.

    19. Re: Do it, do it now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Proctology has a long way to go...

    20. Re:Do it, do it now! by jabuzz · · Score: 2

      On the other hand a 30% efficient edit would probably be just fine to fix say the well known defects that causes Cystic Fibrosis. In fact Wikipedia tells me that there has been a functional repair in culture of the CFTR gene by CRISPR/Cas9. It also tells me that the most common mutiation of the CFTR gene accounts for 2/3 of all CF case world wide an 90% in the USA.

      I am sure that a whole range of autosomal recessive diseases (aka ones where a single functioning copy of the gene is sufficient to suffer no or massively reduced symptoms) could be "cured" with a 30% efficient gene editing rate.

    21. Re:Do it, do it now! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I buy that. Even more to my point. Saving lives should be the last thing on anybody's mind.

      Until it's YOUR life that needs saving, of course...

    22. Re:Do it, do it now! by Beezlebub33 · · Score: 1

      I buy that. Even more to my point. Saving lives should be the last thing on anybody's mind.

      That makes no sense at all. Early death has a huge negative impact on society at large. The way to demographic transition includes reducing unnecessary and random sickness and death, allowing people to expect to live their lives smoothly. Cancer takes people out when they are productive and contributing members of society. Ironically, one of the keys to reducing rapid population growth is to reduce death.

      --
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  6. ROFL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we don't advance science, we all die for sure.

    Yes, it is a risk. All science is. But failing to bet is a guaranteed loss.

    1. Re:ROFL by arth1 · · Score: 1

      If we don't advance science, we all die for sure.

      And if we do advance science, we all die for sure.

      Old as I am, I still haven't figured out why death is such a big deal to so many people. It's not something anyone will suffer.

    2. Re:ROFL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't fear death. Rather, I find the world very interesting, pleasant, and beautiful. I would prefer to continue experiencing it.

    3. Re: ROFL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I find the world ugly, horrifying and doomed; yet I too wish to carry on living. Baked in survival instincts are funny like that.

    4. Re:ROFL by Golddess · · Score: 1

      Old as I am, I still haven't figured out why death is such a big deal to so many people. It's not something anyone will suffer.

      Isn't that a bit like saying "I don't know why jumping out of an airplane without a parachute is such a big deal. It's not something anyone will suffer", just flipped a bit? Yes, the instant of death / falling may not hurt, but it's the dying / sudden stop at the end that I think most people are worried about how much suffering they will endure from that.

      --
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    5. Re:ROFL by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Isn't that a bit like saying "I don't know why jumping out of an airplane without a parachute is such a big deal. It's not something anyone will suffer", just flipped a bit? Yes, the instant of death / falling may not hurt, but it's the dying / sudden stop at the end that I think most people are worried about how much suffering they will endure from that.

      It seems to me that a lot of people are willing, if not say desperate, to prolong life despite suffering.

      Part of it is surely self-preservation instincts, but it goes much further than what makes sense from an evolutionary perspective, where it makes sense to die when you no longer can provide a net benefit to your descendants, so you don't compete with them for resources.
      But I think a large part of it is cultural too - we're taught that life is "sacred", and to be afraid and treat death as something horrible that must be avoided at all costs. To what extent seems to differ between cultures, and our western one is probably the one that goes the farthest.

      Most other animals seem to have a more balanced self-preservation instinct than humans, and don't seem to sport the same obsession with and irrational fear of death. Our human ability to mull it over appears to be a problem, causing us to go to extraordinary lengths in attempts to prolong life, including spending up to a 17.5% of all our societies' resources on health care, and inventing religions to fool ourselves into thinking it is possible to buy an opt-out through supernatural means, even though that expends even more resources.

  7. Did anyone else .... by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 1

    read this as: A team of Chinese scientists from Sichuan University in Chengdu have become the first to infect a person with ...

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  8. This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by ShooterNeo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I saw the ugly truth of biomedical research when I was in grad school. TLDR, while every last stinking one of us has every possible motivation to spend EVERY spare penny not keeping us alive in the near term on the research (since it's the only thing that has the slightest chance of making sure we continue living past a mere 7-10 decades), there are 2 nasty problems :

    1. Due to extreme amounts of government and institutional red tape, nothing gets done. Nothing. All those stories you read of brain implants? Basically never going to happen. That's because the way the legal system works is, institution administrators always have to ask "can WE be blamed if this goes wrong?" Basically, if the research kills someone but ultimately saves 1000 lives, our courts won't give any credit to the 1000 lives saved, it's all about slamming the institution for making an error. Also, the government has a very poor model for assessing results. If a drug works on cancer that has failed every other treatment, you don't need a trial with 1000+ participants. Cancers that reach that stage don't just disappear for no reason. A trial with 20 people is enough if 10 of them get up and leave with their tumors destroyed. This is a very strong effect and one that shouldn't require the one size fits all approach the FDA demands.

    2. Most medical spending is on overpriced procedures and drugs and equipment that all suck.

    1. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1. Due to extreme amounts of government and institutional red tape, nothing gets done. Nothing. All those stories you read of brain implants? Basically never going to happen.

      It will happen, just not in America. In China, stuff gets done.

      America will take at least 30 years to build a high speed train from SF to LA, at a cost of $100-300B.
      China built the high speed train from Shanghai to Beijing (twice the distance from SF to LA) in 3 years, at a cost of $32B.

    2. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by quenda · · Score: 2

      America will take at least 30 years to build a high speed train from SF to LA, at a cost of $100-300B.
      China built the high speed train from Shanghai to Beijing (twice the distance from SF to LA) in 3 years, at a cost of $32B.

      To be fair, America built the trans-continental railway in a few years for $50 mil, back when they had cheap Chinese labour, and no health and safety or other red tape.

    3. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure China will have no issues ignoring all moral quandries about experimenting on prisoners and will press on regardless

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      PRINT ""+-0
    4. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by EmeraldBot · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. Due to extreme amounts of government and institutional red tape, nothing gets done. Nothing. All those stories you read of brain implants? Basically never going to happen.

      It will happen, just not in America. In China, stuff gets done.

      America will take at least 30 years to build a high speed train from SF to LA, at a cost of $100-300B. China built the high speed train from Shanghai to Beijing (twice the distance from SF to LA) in 3 years, at a cost of $32B.

      Safety regulations don't prevent trains, public aversion to taxes does. If you're not willing to invest in your government, then you can't seriously expect it to cover the cost of something like this, and there's no way a private provider is going to risk a loss of revenue on a project of questionable profitability. I'm not weighing on whether I think it's right or not, but if you're against large government, then I'm afraid you'd also have to be against large government projects too. Also, don't forget that there's a reason we put in worker and safety regulations - there was a time when Americans worked for minimum wage 12+ hours a day with no worker's comp or health insurance, much like these people in China would be.

      --
      "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
    5. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of Geohot whining about the regulatory environment around vehicle safety killing his johnnycab project. Plenty gets done within the framework: if you can't cope with it, that might just be you.

    6. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I saw the ugly truth of biomedical research when I was in grad school. TLDR, while every last stinking one of us has every possible motivation to spend EVERY spare penny not keeping us alive in the near term on the research (since it's the only thing that has the slightest chance of making sure we continue living past a mere 7-10 decades), there are 2 nasty problems :

      1. Due to extreme amounts of government and institutional red tape, nothing gets done. Nothing. All those stories you read of brain implants? Basically never going to happen. That's because the way the legal system works is, institution administrators always have to ask "can WE be blamed if this goes wrong?" Basically, if the research kills someone but ultimately saves 1000 lives, our courts won't give any credit to the 1000 lives saved, it's all about slamming the institution for making an error. Also, the government has a very poor model for assessing results. If a drug works on cancer that has failed every other treatment, you don't need a trial with 1000+ participants. Cancers that reach that stage don't just disappear for no reason. A trial with 20 people is enough if 10 of them get up and leave with their tumors destroyed. This is a very strong effect and one that shouldn't require the one size fits all approach the FDA demands.

      2. Most medical spending is on overpriced procedures and drugs and equipment that all suck.

      If you cure people, you can't make money.

    7. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It will happen, just not in America. In China, stuff gets done.

      Mengele got stuff done too (does this count towards Godwin's Law?).

      Or perhaps less sarcastic: getting a good balance between oversight and freedom is a Hard Problem. Even harder if it involves (oops!) killing someone from time to time.

      To meaningfully contribute towards making it better (solving? I don't think we can "solve" it), you'd start by *thinking* about it. Instead you prefer to trump around. Must be in fashion these days.

    8. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      "Safety regulations don't prevent trains, public aversion to taxes does. "

      This is not what happened to the California bullet train, because the money was in place. It was stopped by NIMBYs who kept filing suits until the cost exceeded all foreseeable budgets. There are two factors to Chinese strength: its government is studded with engineers, in the same way that ours is riddled with lawyers; and China ignores NIMBY sentiment and Just Fucking Builds it.

    9. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If when voting, I could choose how my taxes were applied then all the "awesome" projects would get funding. Imagine if politicians jobs were to propose "projects" and we voted on funding levels. That my friends if the future of democracy.

    10. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      What about Japan then? It's building not just a high speed line, but a maglev line that is 90% tunnels between Tokyo and Osaka. Tunnels though some of the most challenging terrain in the world, lots of new technology, and privately funded.

      They look at it as a long term investment, and get revenue not just from carrying passengers, but from building shopping centres and other facilities around the stations.

      Oh, and there has never been a single fatal accident on Japanese high speed rail. For construction workers too it is extremely safe.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    11. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by EmeraldBot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What about Japan then? It's building not just a high speed line, but a maglev line that is 90% tunnels between Tokyo and Osaka. Tunnels though some of the most challenging terrain in the world, lots of new technology, and privately funded.

      They look at it as a long term investment, and get revenue not just from carrying passengers, but from building shopping centres and other facilities around the stations.

      Oh, and there has never been a single fatal accident on Japanese high speed rail. For construction workers too it is extremely safe.

      I entirely agree with you, and you make precisely my point. As someone who currently lives in Japan, in Tokyo, I can say without a doubt that it has a far more advanced infrastructure than any American city - Seattle, San Francisco, Boston, New York, it tops them all. You can go anywhere with trains and buses, you have ridiculously extensive malls carrying a wide array of merchandise from big and small sellers alike, the roads are very well maintained, and in general it's an incredibly sophisticated and advanced style of living, waaaaaaay above anything in the US can compare to.

      The above also requires most citizens to pay 30-50% of their income in taxes, numerous and expensive tolls throughout the highway system, and in general a big government that is pretty active in people's lives and is willing to help pay for all of this. If you ever advocate for this in America, you're instantly labeled as "Socialist", right up there with Hugo Chavez, and nobody will listen to you any farther. However, these very same people then applaud China or India or whoever for making these huge investments, and how backwards the US is for not doing the same. These people want all of the amazing infrastructure and economic investment for absolutely free and no personal sacrifice at all, and that just isn't sustainable. If people want an article of confederations style government, then they have to accept that moving beyond what we have now is never going to happen, and that the US is going to continue to rank behind every other first world country for quality of life.

      --
      "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
    12. Re: This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by jdunn14 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bullshit. The company that can cure a major cancer type will make money hand over fist for years. Given society's emphasis on short term profits the executives and investors will happily walk away with billions before any patents run out. There will also always be something else to cure especially since almost every cancer is different. if you cure cancer 'a' then someone might live long enough to get cancer type 'b' and pay you again.

    13. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mengele got stuff done too (does this count towards Godwin's Law?).

      No he didn't get any "stuff" done that's the problem and that's why you know his name, but not e.g. the name of Sigmund Rascher, or Erich Hippke, or Shiro Ishii for that matter. They actually did get "stuff done".

      In the latter case the US even "pardoned" the crimes to get access to the results (from Wikipedia):

      "Although the Soviet authorities wished the prosecutions to take place, the United States objected after the reports of the investigating US microbiologists. Among these was Dr. Edwin Hill (Chief of Fort Detrick), whose report stated that the information was "absolutely invaluable", it "could never have been obtained in the United States because of scruples attached to experiments on humans", and "the information was obtained fairly cheaply".

      So even your own point falls flat, even though it is well taken, as history, your own history, provides ample examples of where you didn't let the "egg breaking" hinder the making of the omelette. Don't think it wont happen again.

    14. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by tburkhol · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure China will have no issues ignoring all moral quandries about experimenting on prisoners and will press on regardless

      If they do, they won't be able to publish in any Western peer-reviewed journal, all of which contain some version 'studies must conform to the declaration of Helsinki' and all of which ask reviewers whether there are any ethical concerns regarding human or animal experiments.

    15. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Tax in Japan isn't particularly high:

      United Kingdom -57.28%
      France - 58.10%
      Canada -58.13%
      Japan - 58.68%
      Australia- 59.30%
      United States - 60.45% (based on New York state tax)

      That's the amount of income you get to keep, based on a married person with two children, one under 6.

      Sales tax is 8% in Japan, compared to 20% in the UK. I agree that there are more tolls in Japan for things like the highway though, but on the other hand petrol is much cheaper than the UK too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    16. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      The above also requires most citizens to pay 30-50% of their income in taxes,

      You realize that many people pay 30-50% taxes in the US right?

      For $100,000/year:

      NYC - 3.5%
      NYS - 6%
      Federal - 26%

      That's over 30% not counting 8.875 sales tax; real estate tax; water and sewage tax; $15 tolls to cross bridges.

      yeah. tax rate already meets your standards. And no. Taxes should not go higher. And no, higher taxes will not solve the problem. Every politician comes round and says "raise taxes and 'x' will be done." Years go by, the taxes are raised and 'x' is still not done.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    17. Re: This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They make even more money by keeping the patients on medication.

      If they were cured, the money train stops.

    18. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very cherry-picked and incomplete example. Very specific children choice and no mention of income brackets, marital status, selecting a very high state tax rate (some don't even have a tax), or government aid including subsidies or tax breaks.

      Noting about other taxes either. There is just too much wrong with your analysis, as usual, so I'll zero in just on this one facet. The US has no VAT tax. Whatever you are paying, 10-20%, US residents are paying 0%. Gasoline is currently at $2 USD per gallon, those taxes are low. You can buy deboned chicken for $2 a pound. High-quality beef can be had for $10. There are hidden taxes and fees everywhere. The US has far, far less of them and the percentage is far less when they exist.

      Being honest about the comparison shows that a typical US resident pays half of what a typical western nation resident does for their government.

    19. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We get it, Ken-Sama. Everything Eastern is advanced and great, and everything Western is archaic and lame.

      Thanks, but a lot of Americans actually enjoy getting behind the wheel of their own car and driving to and from work.

    20. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only because the other choices are walking / shitty public transport.
      Let them live in a decent city for a few months, and then see if they want to go back to their shitholes.

    21. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ah yeah, your quality of life is so great in your $3000/month 400 sq ft apartment. Waiting around to get in trains so you can sit next to someone that hasn't bathed in a week so you can go to an overcrowded shopping center and carry your groceries back to your tiny living space. Such high quality of living.

    22. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by I4ko · · Score: 1

      I suggest that you are over exaggerating and looking in the wrong direction. The government doesn't make it expensive. The "for profit" element in the western countries is what makes it expensive. The greedy desire to have anywhere from 400% to 6000% profit.

    23. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Make even a small cut to the obscene levels of military spending the US does and I guarantee that there will suddenly be a lot more money for public works.

    24. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by dbarclay10 · · Score: 1

      Hey did you use a site to get your numbers? If so, which? I've often worked out numbers like that myself, manually, to prove points - but it would be great if there was a more convenient option :)

      --

      Barclay family motto:
      Aut agere aut mori.
      (Either action or death.)
    25. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It was on the BBC News website, sorry I lost the link.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    26. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by djinn6 · · Score: 2

      The $X00 billion high-speed rail line in CA has nothing to do with willingness to pay taxes and everything to do with inefficiency and corruption in government projects. The majority of money will be spent on acquiring property rights and dealing with lawsuits. The project can't go ahead until it makes everyone happy. And I mean everyone, because even you can file lawsuits on behalf of the environment saying this endangered nematode or whatever will lose its habitat.

      Meanwhile in China, you either accept what the government is paying you for your property, or you get nothing. Environmental regulations? Ok, does this project kill pandas? No? Go away.

    27. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      America will take at least 30 years to build a high speed train from SF to LA, at a cost of $100-300B. China built the high speed train from Shanghai to Beijing (twice the distance from SF to LA) in 3 years, at a cost of $32B.

      To be fair, America built the trans-continental railway in a few years for $50 mil, back when they had cheap Chinese labour, and no health and safety or other red tape.

      And the Chinese build the Chinese wall, something something. It is not fair to bring that comparison when the financial contexts, times and places then and now are basically incomparable.

    28. Re:This is excellent, excellent, excellent news by quenda · · Score: 1

      It is not fair to bring that comparison when the financial contexts, times and places then and now are basically incomparable.

      Yes, you seem to have correctly taken *my* point. The current US and China contexts are incomparable.

  9. Nedelin catastrophe by sheramil · · Score: 1

    "I think this is going to trigger 'Sputnik 2.0,' a biomedical duel in progress between China and the United States, which is important since competition usually improves the end product."

    this guy might disagree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  10. Sputnik by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The objections of the Catholic Church towards a wider view of the universe did no longer existed during the Sputnik times. However, the objections of the religious and "religious moralists" circles towards gene technology and modification still linger around these days. Similarly, our firms beliefs of a fictitious demon that is the SkyNet will certainly hamper AI research at some point in the future. Maybe it is time to let go of the irrational influence of stories and start looking into future and the present with open eyes?

  11. MMMmmmmmm... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CRISPRs

  12. The Nobel for Best Editor (Human Category) Goes To by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Accepting the award would be Angelina Jolie

    "I was instructed to read this speech It is an honor just to be nominated but I am sure he would very much like to thank those brave Chinese volunteers who really had little choice in the matter"

  13. Zombies by CapeBretonIslander · · Score: 1

    Do they want zombies? Because I'm pretty sure this is how you get zombies. :)

    1. Re:Zombies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it really does sound like the intro to a zombie flick.

  14. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  15. Re:gay genes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry, the Chinese can't see you hiding in your closet to inject you.
    You only need to worry when they make an aerosol form and send fleets of drones over after you.

  16. Dangers to look for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have some concerns, I would look out for.

    - Abortions caused by the immune system (if you're cured of cancer you probably don't care)
    - That the immune system in some other way goes rogue as the gene to slow down and stop have been altered.

    There are great reasons to be cautious, but overall this is a great approach to dealing with viruses (including cancer). I hope that the methods that specifically target bad cells are the top priotirty research though. I liked the approach against the ebola, though I don't know how effective it was? Did people get cured? Sorry for caring more about science than people ;)

  17. Re:gay genes by I4ko · · Score: 1

    And then we'll get Miranda and reavers.

  18. a capella science! by j-beda · · Score: 3, Funny

    Best "Mr. Sandman" rewrite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    CRISPR-Cas9
    Bring me a gene
    Encoding for a specific protein
    Make a few snips at this coded locus
    You work so well inside a streptococcus
    Cas9
    I'm so alone
    Without your scissors in my chromosome
    Cut me up and do it clean
    CRISPR-Cas9 bring me a gene ....

  19. FRIST TOAST by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    CRISPeR, tastier, zestier, crunchier!

    I am just fishing for points, so sue me, or mod me

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  20. The irony is just sickening... by morethanapapercert · · Score: 1
    Here we have a bigoted person advocating genocide, arguably one of the most violent acts any species, let alone any ethnic grouping of humans, could ever achieve. For the sake of argument, let us suppose that one ethnic group did manage to kill off all members of a chosen group/set of groups. We'll ignore for the moment the pragmatic reality that, thanks to many centuries of interaction (good AND bad) most peoples are genetic mongrels, with ancestry from 3 or more backgrounds. We'll even ignore the fact that, in many cases, the groups that hate each other most tend to be very closely related, (Semitic peoples as already mentioned, Chinese/Japanese/Korean, French and UK, the list goes on) again, because of centuries of interaction, both good and bad. That makes it practically impossible for anyone to actually accurately target ANY hated group.

    sociopathic, genocidal murderers and their heirs will be all that is left

    Even IF such a thing were technically feasible or to become so. There are still two really big problems that the hate groups never seem to even realize, let alone admit to anyone.

    1) Who decides who is desirable vs undesirable? White supremacists would chose blacks, browns and yellows, pretty much in that order. There are elements in militant ethnic or religious groups who would happily eliminate whites from the world in turn. What you end up with is a MAD situation, with everyone (hopefully!!) being too sane to be the first to pull the trigger and making side deals with others in the room to gang up on the first one who does so.

    2) There are many post apocalyptic stories and movies out there which can give us at least a passing notion of what a truly depopulated world would look like. None of the bigoted nutjobs seem to really think that through. At best, some seem to think this means law and order collapse and they get to take what they please at the point of the gun they've been hugging and whispering to. More likely, it means the utter collapse and likely extinction of the human race. ONE PLAGUE wiped out as much as 50% of the human race. We survived because a) People tended not to travel as much or as far/fast as they do today. The disease spread slower than it would today. b) Something like 80% of the population was involved in food production and nobody utterly relied on preserved and/or widely transported foodstuffs. c) The disease struck mainly the poorest and the ones living in the most crowded conditions the hardest. Most monasteries, for example, were almost or completely unscathed. Which also meant that the accumulated knowledge of the human race also survived. (and even if the librarian monk dies, the books are still on the shelves. If our electrical grid goes down permanently, everything stored electronically will be essentially GONE.) Because our civilization is so interconnected and interdependent, what *I* think the result would be:

    A) Death tolls easily matching the First, Second and Third pandemics put together. It will happen within weeks, perhaps even days, compared to the months and years of the earlier plagues. That would eliminate 80+% of the human race.

    B)There will be warfare as nations blame each other. Warfare that is quite likely to include nuclear weapons. That right there accounts of ~80-90 % of the human race. FOLLOWED BY

    C) Wide spread and immediate Great Famine which accounts for 50-60% of who ever is left. FOLLOWED BY

    D) Rampant dysentery and other diseases, caused by being surrounded by seemingly endless dead bodies and no access to clean drinking water. (many people in the west don't even know where their water comes from, let alone have the means to get there and extract it without power during a pandemic. FOLLOWED BY

    E) A loss of human knowledge and know-how akin to the Viking sacks of the Irish monasteries, but occurring WORLD-WIDE. FOLLOWED BY

    F) A drastic crash in world wide climate, perhaps even another Little Ice Age as we had in the medieval period. This may well account for the 5-10% of

    --
    I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj