President Obama Says He Can't Pardon Snowden (arstechnica.com)

Joe Mullin, writing for Ars Technica:A campaign to pardon NSA leaker Edward Snowden, launched in combination with a fawning Oliver Stone film about him, hasn't made any headway. The request spurred the entire membership of the House Select Committee on Intelligence, 13 Republicans and nine Democrats, to send a letter to President Barack Obama urging against a pardon. "He is a criminal," they stated flatly. Obama weighed in on the matter on Friday. During his European tour, he was interviewed by Der Spiegel -- the largest newspaper in Germany, a country where Snowden is particularly popular. After discussing a wide range of issues, he was asked: Are you going to pardon Edward Snowden? Obama replied: "I can't pardon somebody who hasn't gone before a court and presented themselves, so that's not something that I would comment on at this point." He continued: I think that Mr. Snowden raised some legitimate concerns. How he did it was something that did not follow the procedures and practices of our intelligence community. If everybody took the approach that I make my own decisions about these issues, then it would be very hard to have an organized government or any kind of national security system. At the point at which Mr. Snowden wants to present himself before the legal authorities and make his arguments or have his lawyers make his arguments, then I think those issues come into play. Until that time, what I've tried to suggest -- both to the American people, but also to the world -- is that we do have to balance this issue of privacy and security.

Comments

And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[Indy1]

President Ford pardoned Nixon for the watergate scandal, and Nixon never stepped inside a court for his misdeeds.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[BarbaraHudson]

Obama is just phoning it in nowadays. What started off so well 8 years ago ("Hope and Yes we can" in 2008) has morphed into "hopeless" and "no we can't."

Like the promise for the most open administration ever, and giving the insurance companies the ACA - the gift that keeps on giving. Even a year ago I would have said that Obama would go down in history as one of the best presidents. Was I ever wrong.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[nightcats]

Yes, he is. As Amy Goodman keeps reminding us: governments lie, politicians lie -- and the corporations that own them definitely lie. That's their business, it seems, so it must be the business of both professional journalists and private citizens to relentlessly expose the lies.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[ClickOnThis]

And many people considered it to be a totally corrupt move by Ford. Just because some other a-hole did something and got away with it doesn't mean Obama should too.

Fair point, but not relevant here. The point is not whether Obama should pardon Snowden, it's whether he could. And the answer is yes.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right.

I think Obama is using that excuse to dodge the question of pardoning Snowden. Just like Trump dodged releasing his taxes by saying he couldn't because he was under audit. Which was also not true: there's no legal impediment to releasing your taxes if you're under audit.

Not actually "just like" that at all. All this relativism in politics is killing it. A democrat and republican can do exactly the same thing and otherwise sane rational people will defend one and crucify the other, depending on which side they like. You're killing this country.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[meta-monkey]

Trump never claimed he was legally not allowed to. He said it was because no tax attorney would advise one to do this, which is true.

I also think he refused for strategic purposes. It's good schmuck bait. No one who was totally cool with building walls and deporting millions of people would suddenly change their minds if his taxes were bad, and nobody who was voting for Hillary's vagina would suddenly say "gosh Trump is great!" if his taxes proved he was the greatest businessman of all time. If he had released his tax returns I doubt a single vote would have switched one way or the other. So it was just something that made his detractors and the media (but I repeat myself) full of impotent rage. Never interrupt your enemy when he's making a mistake.

However, Obama's full of shit here. He could absolutely issue a pardon for Snowden right now. "Edward Snowden is absolved for any crimes he may have committed between 2010 and today." Done. He just doesn't want to, and is lying saying he can't. I wish he would, because I'd like to see Snowden pardoned, and I don't think for a second Trump will do it. Trump might even get his new buddy Vlad to hand him over.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[DarkOx]

The Constitution very explicitly grants the president the power to grant pardons at least for federal crimes there isn't really any legal question about that. There is lots president for presidents granting pardons for alleged crimes. So Obama certainly can legally pardon Snowden, he has the power as the executive to do that and he would be on much much firmer legal ground doing so that he is with many of his other executive actions!

He is just to much the sad sack to take responsibility, and say "I won't" while he thinks he can get away with "I can't".

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[saloomy]

They really should confiscate that shiny Nobel prize the dished out so earnestly. Peace, my ass.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[hey!]

Really? Nixon being pardoned by the guy he nominated to the vice-presidency before resigning is your benchmark here?

Here's the case you want to bring up: Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich, which bears exactly on this case. Marc Rich had fled the country so as not to face an indictment. And it was technically legal to do so in that case, although it drew condemnation, even from Jimmy Carter.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[HornWumpus]

And, as Amy Goodman knows firsthand: Propagandists lie.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[jenningsthecat]

The president has 0 power to do most of the things that people apparently think they do.

That's entirely true, but largely irrelevant to the current discussion. The President certainly does have the power to pardon Snowden; there is no legal impediment, and now that Obama will almost certainly never hold any political office again, there is no substantial political impediment either.

Another commenter here noted that Ford pardoned Nixon when Nixon had never been in court over Watergate. Wikipedia agrees: "A presidential pardon may be granted at any time, however, and as when Ford pardoned Nixon, the pardoned person need not yet have been convicted or even formally charged with a crime". So when Obama says he "can't" pardon Snowden, he's doing something far worse than "phoning it in" - he's lying. It also seems rather cowardly - he should either pardon Snowden, or give whatever real reasons he may have for not doing so. When he hides behind "I can't" and implies that the law forbids him from doing it, he is simply uttering mealy-mouthed weasel words. Way to tarnish your own legacy, Mister President.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[Richard_at_work]

In my mind, the difference is that Nixons pardon was never legally challenged by Congress or any other body - there is no way to say that Nixons parson would or would not have stood up to legal scrutiny. You can bet your perky little ass that any pardon issued to Snowdon would definitely be challenged.

With that in mind, it could easily be the case that the legal and political landscape supporting the validity of such pardons has changed in the intervening years - Congress may simply ignore the pardon and require Snowden to testify infront of it, holding him in contempt of Congress if he refuses or if he violates any contrived reason...

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[jcr]

Not so much "again", as "still".

I really pity anyone who ever expected more from the Teleprompter-in-chief. How long was it between the time he was sworn in and the next time the DEA raided a dispensary? How about the first time he signed a bill extending the PATRIOT act?

-jcr

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[Trailer Trash]

So... you are saying that because Obama isn't going to pardon Snowden, he is phoning it in?

People put WAY too many hopes into the role of president. You are only setting yourself up for disappointment if you do this.

The president has 0 power to do most of the things that people apparently think they do.

You know, at some point you people will have to admit that Obama failed. Completely. Give. It. Up.

In this case we know that the President absolutely has the power to pardon Snowden. The grandparent makes the case absolutely by showing precedent (that's a big word that means "it's been done before") and some of the uncle posts provide further links.

So, the President absolutely has this power. He knows it. He's playing both sides by saying "gee, I wish I could, but I can't." It's a lie, but it gives idiots like you (wow, how did I know?) the cover to drool out "duh, he wants to but he, der, doesn't have the power to pardon Snowden" when someone calls him out on it.

It's the same way Democrats have been promising illegal aliens that they'll take care of them and protect them from evil Republicans and make the citizens while at the same time Obama has ramped up deportations to the point that he's sent more home than Bush and Clinton combined.

You're what we call a "useful idiot". I know, more of those pesky three-syllable words, but you might try looking it up to see what it means.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[jcr]

you are saying that because Obama isn't going to pardon Snowden, he is phoning it in?

You're reversing the cause and effect. Obama isn't going to pardon Snowden, because he simply doesn't care enough to do the right thing for a man who has done far more for our country than Obama ever will.

-jcr

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[Obfuscant]

When he hides behind "I can't" and implies that the law forbids him from doing it,

Far be it for me to defend Barry here, but it could be that his "I can't" is not a legal statement, but a statement of an ethical position that he chooses not to violate. Short for "I can't bring myself" or "I can't violate my own ethical standards ..."

No, sorry, what was I thinking. Now I have to clean the coffee I just snorted out my nose out of my keyboard.

As for "tarnishing a legacy", no, this won't do that. Most people either don't care/don't know about Snowden, or think he's guilty and shouldn't be pardoned. It truly is a minority that cares and wants the pardon. /. is a self-selected community and basing estimates of what the real world thinks on what you read here is unjustified. There are far too many other things that people either love him for or hate him for, for this to be a blip on the radar.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[Bartles]

Yes, but Edward Snowden didn't donate a million dollars to Barack Obama's Presidential Library. If he won't pay, he can't expect to play.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[um... Lucas]

We were attacked by a group of stateless outlaws on 9/11.

We retaliated against them shortly after, and opted to go after the state that had provided them sanctuary, and overthrew Taliban.

And then the Bush Administration provided fake evidence to the world about WMD's and terror connections in Iraq. When someone that knew better said something, they outed the fact that his wife was a CIA agent, putting her and her contacts at severe risk.

And then they invaded Iraq, overthrew Saddam, created a HUGE power vacuum, and the entire Baath party out on the street, military included. So you gave them zero reason to do anything but fight against the invaders. And provided a training ground for the worlds insurgents to come and practice their urban warfare skills, and spread out from there.

So yes. The middle east was already an unstable place, but Bush/Cheney Wars were entirely unnecessary, avoidable, and had horrendous side effects for us, the Iraqi's and the entire region.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[Trailer Trash]

And likewise, you will consider Trump a failed president if he doesn't pardon Snowden? And you will consider him a failed president if he continues the Obama-era practice of deporting those deemed a threat to national security, border security and public safety?

If not, you're what we call a "hypocrite". I know, more of those pesky three syllable words, but you might try looking it up to see what it means.

The problem isn't Obama's failure to pardon Snowden. It's the lying. I'd have more respect for him if he said "I could pardon Snowden if I wanted to but I don't want to". Instead, he's lying about it so that idiots like you can claim that he wants to do the right thing but can't.

I'm not a Trump supporter. I suppose you live in the typical black and white world where I have to love one and hate the other, so if I say anything you consider "bad" about Obama that means I'm a Trump fan.

I live in a different world than you, one where people can actually have far more complicated opinions and can be critical of politicians of all stripes. But, I can understand how a simpleton would be scared of such a place where people think for themselves.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[oh_my_080980980]

Really? "full, free, and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed or taken part in' over the course of his presidency."

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[mysidia]

He's probably going to refuse to pardon Mrs. Clinton for the same reason, so he needs to at least maintain an appearance of consistency, otherwise, it will put Obama on the wrong side of history.

Re:And Obama once again is a blatant liar

[Rockoon]

"We" didnt discuss it (making you a liar), but other people that you just linked to refuted the claims the article makes (making you a liar again.)

Fact: Math cant be racist.
Fact: Using demographic data isnt racist.

I know facts are sometimes uncomfortable for you. Someone that plays fast and loose with truth such as yourself should be well familiar with this by now.

procedures and practices, eh?

[Anonymous Coward]

How he did it was something that did not follow the procedures and practices of our intelligence community.

Because that worked out so well for William Binney and Thomas Drake: in an unannounced, armed, early morning raid, a dozen agents armed with rifles appeared at his house, one of whom entered the bathroom and pointed his gun at Binney, who was taking a shower. The FBI confiscated a desktop computer, disks, and personal and business records.[14] The NSA revoked his security clearance, forcing him to close a business he ran with former colleagues at a loss of a reported $300,000 in annual income. The FBI raided the homes of Wiebe and Loomis, as well as House Intelligence Committee staffer Diane Roark, the same morning. Several months later the Bureau raided the home of then still active NSA executive Thomas Andrews Drake who had also contacted DoD IG, but anonymously with confidentiality assured.

Point is: when even at the very top levels of government the Constitution is completely ignored, there can be no rule of law, so laws in this situation are not relevant. If you want your underlings to follow "procedures and practices", best you lead by example, and not ignore both the spirit and the letter of the foundational document of the nation.

Also, as TFA notes, it is absolutely untrue that he cannot pardon Mr Snowden if he so wishes.

Obama's bullshit answer

[nanospook]

1. Snowden did attempt to go through proper channels. The big ignore..
2. He had no whistleblower protections in place.
3. If he had surrendered, he would have been subjected to torture and punishment without trial. FISA court..
4. This is like the only thing that congress has agreed with Obama on in both terms.. That in itself should be a red flag..
5. With guarantees for fairness, he would have faced a court. Couldn't get those guarantees.

Re:Obama's bullshit answer

[Jason Levine]

I'd also add, other whistle-blowers came forward before Snowden and found themselves the target of trumped up charges against them while the issues the whistle-blowers raised were swept under the rug.

Obama strawman

[sacrilicious]

President Obama said:

If everybody took the approach that [they make their] own decisions about these issues, then it would be very hard to have an organized government or any kind of national security system.

The "if I let everyone do xyz then it wouldn't work, and I'm therefor never allowing ANY xyz" argument is a classic strawman.

If everybody in the world became mayor of a town then we'd starve to death because nobody would be producing food... YET we selectively allow people to become mayor all the time.

Snowden did not make arbitrary decisions about something mundane to make a buck... he made a very careful, thoughtful decision, expressly for the public good and NOT for any kind of personal profit (in fact it has cost him dearly, even if he were to get pardoned today, which apparently he won't). Shame on Obama for sound-biting it as though pardoning Snowden would lead to a public clamor for all people who make any decision about anything.

Re:Prediction

[Anonymous Coward]

"Prediction". It's literally there in the "Comment Subject:" field of your reply.

Commute Chelsea Manning's sentence

[Fwipp]

Then how about he commutes the sentence of Chelsea Manning - someone who went before a military court instead of running, who's already served more time than any other whistleblower in our nation's history?

http://www.politico.com/story/...