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Snowden Can Be Asked To Testify In Person In Germany NSA Probe (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: Whistleblower Edward Snowden can be asked to give evidence in person by a German committee probing the NSA's spying activities, the country's Federal Court of Justice has ruled. Germany's government has been told that it should make suitable arrangements for that to happen. It has been refusing to invite Snowden to give evidence personally since it would need to guarantee that he would not be handed over to the U.S. -- a promise the German authorities say would risk damaging the political relations between the two countries. Instead, it has called for him to give evidence via a video link, or for German officials to interview him in Moscow, both of which Snowden turned down. Following a formal complaint by the greens and left-wing politicians, Germany's Federal Court of Justice has ruled that the German government must provide the necessary guarantees that would allow Snowden to give evidence in person, or explain why it will not do so. Snowden's lawyer, Wolfgang Kaleck, told the Suddeutsche Zeitung that the German government might refuse to provide guarantees, and officially admit that it regards cooperating with the U.S. on intelligence matters in the future as more important than getting to the bottom of past surveillance. In that case, an appeal could be made to Germany's constitutional court, according to an article in Der Spiegel, which would decide whether the German government was allowed to make that trade-off. The committee of inquiry is examining to what extent German citizens and politicians were spied on by the NSA and its so-called Five Eyes partners -- notably GCHQ -- and whether German politicians and intelligence agencies knew about this activity.
The Hun can never be trusted!
WW V!
Now what exactly happens to Germany if they change their mind once they have Snowden and hand him over to be executed by the US, hmm, nothing what so ever. A really, really bad idea to trust a pretty corrupt German government at this time. Keep in mind they along with the US had no hesitation in getting the Zaporozhi Cossacks to shell and murder Don Cossacks in the Ukraine just as a political stunt killing thousands, to stir up Russia to promote arms sales, this is not a country to trust, seriously. Possibly trust France, certainly not the UK, nor Sweden, possibly Norway, definitely Iceland, not Finland, possibly Italy, definitely not Croatia (measure of US influence and the subsequent corruption it brings every time, the greater the US influence the greater the corruption in the country, not because of Americans but because of multinational corporate control).
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
You can doubt Russian/Hong kong intents, but the German story seem to be pretty legitimate and you can't blame them if they want to know how much the NSA spied on them.
Now, if you call Snowden a traitor because it will reveal the truth about the NSA spying activities on their partners for business intelligence, that's your call.
They will promise to not hand him over, and they will keep that promise, they will not hand him over, they will kill him instead. Problem solved, promise kept, nobody's fault.
a promise the German authorities say would risk damaging the political relations between the two countries
So as you know where I'm coming from: I'm a US citizen.
Since my own government is clearly going to do everything in its power to get back at Snowden for embarrassing them and pointing out their unconstitutional behavior, I think it's up to Europe to grow a backbone here. It needs to be willing to cause some damage to its political relations with the US. In fact, that may be the only hope for Snowden's safety. If the US buddies up to Russia after the administration change, it's conceivable that the US gets its hands on Snowden in person. The only way for him to remain safe is to have political refuge in a friendly nation, and a European country seems like the best bet there.
That means Europe has to be willing to take the shit that the US will dish out over it. And that should not be too bad, all things considered. The US isn't going to burn its bridges with its allies over this. It'll talk some smack, stomp its boots some, but it will be more bluster than anything.
So, Europeans: please try to pressure your own governments to give ES protection. Push for it. It's his best long term hope. The Russian situation is not going to be stable in the long term, and if he returns back here, he's fucked.
I think it matters a lot in this situation that Trump beat Clinton instead of vice-versa as most of the world expected would happen. Especially with the way Trump won, even if he's seemed to dial it back since the election. Personally I'm not at all certain the differential is quite that significant, but I suspect the rest of the world including Germany is more concerned with the scale and direction of state surveillance under Trump than they would have been with the same apparatus under Clinton.
Myself I think Clinton deserved more flak over the fingerprints and credit card numbers taken from UN diplomats in NY revealed by Wikileaks/Manning (that was cablegate right?). But somehow even after that, I get the impression that the world is more willing to give Hillary the benefit of the doubt there than they are to Trump. For very good reasons of course.
Germany is no good, too many American spies walking around. I can hide him in Canada. If fact, I'm thinking about opening a rescue centre where people like Snowden, Assange, Kim Dotcom, whoever can stay. Sort of like a dog rescue. I have about 50-60 attack moose currently and a small army of battle beavers to protect the place.
Anybody can be asked anything by anybody.
The real question will be on the quality of German crypto.
Who tested and passed German communications networks for secure German gov use only to allow the NSA and GCHQ access?
Why was German crypto set at such a low level? If the NSA, GCHQ got in what other nations had the skills to access junk German crypto?
Are German staff happy to help the NSA and GCHQ to access German gov communications over decades or just selecting equipment from a list of allowed junk standards?
NSA surveillance: Merkel's phone may have been monitored 'for over 10 years' (27 October 2013)
https://www.theguardian.com/wo...
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
....
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
They want him to testify against his own country, in the interest of the German people (and not in the interest of Americans/humanity in general as he previously did), all without giving him political asylum first.
For a country that doesn't have the decency of giving political asylum for someone that is being persecuted for whistle blowing on activities that hurt the whole world to even ask for help would be really bold. But doing so while threatening to give him to a country that is known for human rights abuses, torture and that have a legal system where he can not present a defense for his actions. Impressive.
Now what exactly happens to Germany if they change their mind once they have Snowden and hand him over to be executed by the US, hmm, nothing what so ever.
Germany can't extradite without guarantees that he won't face execution, not only would it violate German law, it would violate the European Charter of Human Rights. All EU member nations have surrendered sovereignty to the EU in human rights matters. Blatant violations could result in sanctions.
Regardless, what on earth makes you think Germany isn't trustworthy. When they say safe-access they probably mean: enact a law that Snowden can't be extradited or prosecuted on charges related to leaking information. Likely it would effectively grant him asylum in Germany, as any time-limit on such an arrangement wouldn't be safe for Snowden (given that he can't know for sure if he would ever be able to return to Russia).
he denied an onterveiw in moscow but wanted assurances to go to them sounds like he may be indirectly asking for asylum though they shot that down. guess he doesnt like russia.
If the US buddies up to Russia after the administration change, it's conceivable that the US gets its hands on Snowden in person.
Yeah, with Trump it's no-longer inconceivable that Ukraine is sold to Russia in exchange for Snowden. Unlikely, but hardly inconceivable.
The US isn't going to burn its bridges with its allies over this. It'll talk some smack, stomp its boots some, but it will be more bluster than anything.
Well, Trump is talking about NATO being of no importance to him. With Russia acting aggressively, you might understand why European nations aren't willing to risk trouble over a single individual.
Same AC as parent post again. Another reason I believe this makes sense is that Russia is harboring ES as a way to poke a stick in our eye. Russia doesn't care about freedom from state surveillance. (Well, many individual Russians do, but that's not why Putin is giving Snowden harbor). That contributes to the instability of the current arrangement.
Europe on the other hand, has a well aligned culture with Snowden's outlook, especially since it's seen the results of overbearing state surveillance up close and personal. Not saying your shit don't stink - just that it's relative. A European country - let's call it Sweden for example - might well give ES political asylum because it's the right goddamn thing to do, and a large part of their population agrees. Also - occasional spats aside - Europe and the US are on quite friendly terms. We've had your back before. Sometimes, what you do for a friend is say "no" when they need to hear that. Even if they throw a hissy fit. At this moment, the US needs to be told "no". Even if throws a hissy fit and renames its French Fries again.
I doubt Highly Snowden will set 1 foot in a country that could arrest him and ship in back to the US.
I would like to subscribe to your beaver monthly magazine
Which of the following is most likely to "damage political relations"?
1. Holding a public investigation into the spying activities of another country
2. Granting temporary immunity to a wanted witness so they can testify in said investigation
You can ask anybody anything so what's the point?
There's no compelling reason for his physical presence other than his capture. None.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
I'm thinking since there's the Trump/Putiin Bromance going on I'm wondering if Snowdon has much time left anyway to remain in Russia.
He could use another home.
Obviously if Putin can influence the USA election by hacking Clinton's emails and building a body of propaganda around them, he could do the same with Merkels communications. NSA has already hack Merkels phone and emails, NSA has already hacked a lot of politicians emails, so all democracies are at risk from Putin's friend.
Likewise Snowden would likely be traded as some fake swap with Russia. e.g. "We will give you Snowden, you remove sanction for invading Ukraine". Of course Trump would remove sanctions for Ukraine anyway, the Snowden tradeoff would simply let him pretend it was a deal not a payback.
From the courts perspective, they want to normalize Snowden as a whistleblower. He would be safer in a democratic country with a new found understanding of the need to protect political communications from surveillance, than in Russia.
but trump and pence are now going to run the show.
all I've heard about those 2 clowns is that they are uber bootlickers and LOVE authority concepts. they won't stand up and stay that the US did wrong. they'll continue to go after him because republicans are the worst kind of bootlicker. they are not ashamed and, in fact, proud of the fact that they think 'authority' is an absolute power and should always be followed, no matter what.
trump is going to play 'he-man' and continue to beat his chest and act like a big guy just to keep his base believing in him.
pence is worse, even.
so, no hope for snowden in the next 4 years. sigh ;(
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
After the Assange debacle, Sweden is definitely NOT a place that Snowden would want to go to.
Sweden have shown that they are TOTALLY in the thrall of the US.
Beaver monthly magazine ? In my teen years, before the internet, I used to "read" those (and learned many tricks to acquire them while not being legally of age to buy them).
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
He's not asked to show up in person, but give a testimony over video link:
_Instead, it has called for him to give evidence via a video link, or for German officials to interview him in Moscow, both of which Snowden turned down._
The attack moose up here are fierce, but the battle beavers are useless: they just keep eating their spears.
I don't understand, how the countries see the snowden interview as a privilege for snowden.
Snowden has something to tell them. They should want to know it. So its a privilege for them, if snowden explains it. So when they struggle to allow snwoden to speak and then finally decide, that he may speak ... who says he wants to speak for them? It's some favour for the country, not for snowden. So be thankful instead of so arrogant.
Germany only objects and protests being spied on by the NSA for the public because it is "supposedly" a sovereign country, but in reality it is merely a US proxy, and the NSA are about in their rights to spy on Germany as a farmer is in his rights to install cameras to look over his cattle. Merkel can't fart without permission.
This post has been modded down since this is an unpleasant truth- but it is truth all the same. Germany is not in the 'five eyes' and most of its intelligence sharing is one way.