Consumer Reports: Tesla's Model X Is 'Fast and Flawed' (marketwatch.com)

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Consumer Reports: Tesla's Model X Is 'Fast and Flawed' (marketwatch.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Friday November 25, 2016 @02:25PM from the pros-and-cons dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from MarketWatch: Tesla Motors Inc. was dealt a blow earlier this week as Consumer Reports magazine called the Model X, its much-awaited and much-feted SUV, a "flawed" vehicle. Beyond a "brag-worthy magic, the all-wheel drive Model X 90D largely disappoints," the magazine said, citing rear doors prone to pausing and stopping, second-row seats that can't be folded, and limiting cargo capacity. Even its panoramic, helicopter-like windshield won cranky-sounding disapproval from Consumer Reports: It's not tinted enough to offset the brightness of a sunny day, it said. Overall "the ride is too firm and choppy for a $110,000 car," Consumer Reports said. Earlier this year, Consumer Reports released its 2016 Car Reliability Survey and found that, while the Tesla Model S has become more reliable, the Tesla Model X has proved to be unreliable overall.

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Careful my little homies..... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 14:37 · Score: 0, Funny

This could be Fake News!
1. Re:Careful my little homies..... by CaptainDork · 2016-11-25 18:02 · Score: 1
  
  (Score:5, Funny)
  I came here to say just that, but noooooooooooo ....
  You only think about yourself.
  
  --
  It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
2. Re:Careful my little homies..... by fluffernutter · 2016-11-26 06:34 · Score: 1
  
  All the news I see about Tesla is bad news. Elon has assured me that it is all fake!
  
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  Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 14:38 · Score: 1, Insightful

I know nerds obsess over them, but Tesla builds shitty cars. Trim falling off, panel gap issues... as someone who purchases cars around $100k, these are just unacceptable. The Model S is fast but handles like a pig. It's not fun to drive unless you like stop light racing teens. Nor are they luxurious compared to a similarly priced Merc or Audi...
1. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by quantaman · 2016-11-25 14:48 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I know nerds obsess over them, but Tesla builds shitty cars. Trim falling off, panel gap issues... as someone who purchases cars around $100k, these are just unacceptable. The Model S is fast but handles like a pig. It's not fun to drive unless you like stop light racing teens. Nor are they luxurious compared to a similarly priced Merc or Audi...
  I'm not surprised, building cars is very, very difficult, a new entrant is bound to make really crappy cars for a long time while they figure their manufacturing line out.
  That's actually fine for their original luxury market, there's a lot of wealthy people who are quite happy to pay for a fully electric car from an upstart manufacturer, even if it is unreliable.
  The problem is they're trying to move into the general consumer market where it's not enough to be fully electric and cool, you also need to be extremely reliable. That's a much more difficult task.
  
  --
  I stole this Sig
2. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by 0100010001010011 · 2016-11-25 14:54 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Then they poached too many EEs and Computer Engineers and from Silicon Valley and not enough Mechanical engineers from Toyota, Audi, BMW, et al.
3. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 14:58 · Score: 1
  
  My mom worked for a Dodge dealer for 15 years and processed various paperwork including service and recall shit. She said the dodge viper was the same way. Constant problems. Many had fuel pump issues. Guys would buy these $85k plus cars all the time, make it 4-5 miles down the road and the fuel pump shits out. Car gets towed back. For that kind of money you think the basic hardware would at least function. It's not like the fuel pump is a revolutionary new item.
4. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 15:34 · Score: 0, Insightful
  
  All American-made cars are complete trash in this way, compared to Japanese or European imports. Doesn't matter if it's a cheap and cheerful compact or a supercar.
5. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 15:37 · Score: 0
  
  Lol envy much ? Tesla cars are the most advanced and fun to drive. Go to a tesla store and see for yourself, test drives are free :-) I like our Volkswagen eGolf with its 80 mile range for local driving but it has its quirks that could be solved with software updates. Except they won't give it to you. I absolutely love our Tesla Model X, best car I have ever driven, traded in our Honda Oddysee in May took it to a ton of road triips already. I would never go back to gas cars, feels like the Stone Age now in comparison. The quiet powerful acceleration, comfort of the glide, especially longer trips where Autopilot takes over the micromanaging so I can focus better on the overall traffic flow and safety of the trip. The falcon wing doors that allow entering the car in the rain while being shielded by an umbrella. The amazing views from the enourmous windshield. I would buy that 'shit' again and again. Probably going to replace my eGolf with the model 3 in 2017.
6. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 15:52 · Score: 0
  
  I actually googled that to see if you pasted it out of a Tesla ad.
7. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by msauve · 2016-11-25 15:56 · Score: 0
  
  "stop light racing teens."
  
  Must be a new thing. How does one race a stop light? In my experience, they only move a few inches due to wind.
  
  --
  "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
8. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by AmazingRuss · 2016-11-25 16:21 · Score: 1
  
  Nice try, Elon.
9. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Mashiki · 2016-11-25 16:55 · Score: 1
  
  Good luck on poaching them from auto manufacturers. Auto companies know that their brands live or die based on what those engineers do, and will hold onto them even if their company is sinking.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
10. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by turbidostato · 2016-11-25 17:33 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  "Tesla cars are the most advanced and fun to drive. Go to a tesla store and see for yourself, test drives are free"
  Probably you didn't figure it but you just made the parent's point: "most advanced and fun to drive" coupled to being expensive has proven time and again to be good enough for the luxury market, it's far from sufficient for the consumer one.
  The same can be said about your "test drives" point: millionaires are served if their toy cars can manage the equivalent to a test drive once a month (go see how many miles have a second hand luxury car on its odometer) but consumer cars start to make sense only once you can reliably put 100K miles on them.
  In the end, Mr Anonymous Coward, you don't own a Tesla and you are the kind of fanboy that most probably will queue for hours to own the next iShit that comes properly marketed to you. For Tesla to reach the masses, Musk will need to understand not all the people are like his west-coast millionaire early adopters.
11. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 17:55 · Score: 0
  
  No one wants to live in Detroit and salaries are garbage. Poaching hardware engineers from the auto manufacturers isn't hard -- Apple and Microsoft have been doing it for a long time. If anything, the good engineers have already left.
12. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Dorianny · 2016-11-25 18:13 · Score: 2
  
  Not to mention that going from from Internal Combustion to Electric is as much of a change as going from Steam-powered to Internal Combustion. Other than the suspension system and perhaps breaking system there are few components with known reliability Tesla could get "off the shelf." Pretty much everything had to be designed in-house with failure modes that no-one could even imagine without hundreds of thousand of real-world miles to do modeling with. Tesla is not only designing brand new technology but going from a boutique luxury market to a mass market producer at the same time. Only time will tell if Tesla Motor's become as legendary as its namesake or if it fizzles out and becomes a Case Study on the dangers of being overly bold and ambitious
13. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Kjella · 2016-11-25 18:20 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I think you and the grandparent are talking about different things, he's mainly talking about the "premium" experience of a $100k car. I've heard others too say it falls short of high end Audis and BMWs, but really it sells to all those who want to "go green" but can't deal with the range of a Nissan Leaf, BMW i3 or Renault Zoe regardless of that. Once you get into Tesla Model 3 territory the customers aren't really obsessing over such details, they want as you say a cheap, reliable car and it's less about the finer details and nuances of the driving experience.
  Do they have quality control/reliability issues, as in how often does the car need to be in the shop? From what I've heard certainly some, parts and repair time has also been an issue. But we're also hearing from early Model S customers, they have a lot more experience now than they had then so Model 3 might be decent. Not ever going to buy a Model X though, those doors are just begging for problems 3-5-10 years down the road. I think the Elon Musk drank a little too much "they said it can't be done, so I'm doing it" kool-aid there.
  
  --
  Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
14. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by ghoul · 2016-11-25 18:24 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe the problem is their factory is in Fremont which is in the Bay Area. They should move to a more reasonably priced place like South Carolina and they could pay top dollar. In the Bay Area they are getting the ones who could not make it in Tech or service industries serving those in Tech. Quality is bound to be an issue when you are scraping the barrel
  
  --
  **Life is too short to be serious**
15. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by DMFNR · 2016-11-25 19:35 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  You think that's bad, take a look at the even more exclusive sports and super cars. Ferraris with plastics that melt and become sticky after a few years, spontanious combustion, McLarens with door sensors that only work half the time, Lotuses with giant panel gaps. For a lot of these cars price is not proportional to build quality or reliability. You're paying for an experience or an image. Being able to hear the engine note of a flat plane crank V8 is well worth the cost of entry for many people, for others it's entry in to the club of ownership. Having to take the car to the garage every third drive is just part of the supercar ownership experience. Many of these cars are so mechanically high strung that they require absolutely insane maintenance schedules anyway. It's not such a huge deal to replace a few interior parts or electronic doodads when you have to take it in for a whole goddamn engine out regular major service.
  
  Many of these problems have lessened in recent years, the build quality of these cars in the 70's through the 90's was absolutely laughable. I'm not saying its acceptable, just that is how it is. Even the Viper's domestic competitor, the Corvette has had similar issues, even in recent years, see C7 Z06 heat soak issues.
16. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 19:36 · Score: 0
  
  Note that current Tesla models are expensive. There planned fleet of model-3 cars, that drive themselves autonomously to wherever you need a car, could turn out the cheapest form of transport, also for owners that have little fuel cost and can rent out there car when they don't use it.
  Some of the current "toy" model cars are used as taxi and have out 100K miles on them in the few years that these cars have been available.
17. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by DMFNR · 2016-11-25 19:39 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, but if I want a RWD V8, which Japanese or European manufacturer is going to be provide that for me anywhere near the price point of an American make?
18. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Cyberax · 2016-11-25 20:18 · Score: 1
  
  Tesla Model S was crappy for some time after launch, it had lots of teething and reliability problems. They are now mostly fixed. The cycle is repeating itself with Model X - it had too many innovations for the sake of innovation (gullwing doors) with tons of initial problems. It's been a year and it's already getting better, but still has a ways to go.
  
  Anyway, both Model S and Model X are _fun_ to drive. The steering is extremely responsive, the acceleration is downright heady and curve handling is great for the car of its size. It's way, way better than luxury German sedans.
19. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by ColdWetDog · 2016-11-25 21:27 · Score: 1
  
  All American-made cars are complete trash in this way, compared to Japanese or European imports. Doesn't matter if it's a cheap and cheerful compact or a supercar.
  My 16 year old GMC pickup laughs at your stupid comment.
  
  --
  Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
20. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by oobayly · 2016-11-25 21:31 · Score: 1
  
  A friend of mine used to have a TVR. He used to wave at it as he went past the garage (mechanic) as it was the only time he saw it. I wonder if the constant repair costs were more or less than the cost of off street parking in London?
21. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 21:51 · Score: 0
  
  Musk has money and doesn't have his manufacturing in shithole cities. Don't get me wrong I don't think much of Musk or his cars at this point but you are delusional if you think their is any significant impediment to him buying out the engineers from under them.
22. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by DrXym · 2016-11-25 22:38 · Score: 2
  
  There are LOTS of things the Tesla have in common with combustion vehicles. Headlights, glass, motors (for windows, seats, wingmirrors etc.), mirrors, seats, speakers, seatbelts, rubber seals, primer / paint, tyres, alloy rims, wiring, sensors, trim, dashboard / door moulds, carpeting, locks, etc. Most of their assembly line would also be very similar in terms of process and the machinery / robotics / diagnostics software that moves it along. I expect Tesla shares many of its suppliers with other vehicle manufacturers.
  Obviously there are major differences such as battery and motors. Teslas are supposedly very mechanically reliable from an automotive aspect. The faults in the X are mostly to do with the doors, trim and other teething troubles.
  Lots of combustion vehicles have these faults too or even more serious issues. My Hyundai diesel's clutch pretty much exploded one day - it was repaired under warranty but apparently it was a common fault in that model.
23. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by brad3378 · 2016-11-25 23:23 · Score: 1
  
  To be fair, Reno is kind of a shithole. I certainly wouldn't want to live there. It's so boring there that I heard people will shoot you just to watch you die.
  Nobody wants to build a 500+ acre factory in a desirable city where the land is expensive.
  
  --
24. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Mashiki · 2016-11-25 23:35 · Score: 1
  
  No one wants to live in Detroit and salaries are garbage
  That moment when you realize that the "big 3" NA automakers only have their headquarters in Detroit. With development, research, and manufacturing everywhere else. Within 200km there are 6 GM, 4 Ford, 4 Chrysler, 3 Toyota plants. Those pretty much span the breadth of what those companies make. A bit further out from 200km and then you start seeing the development plants, fabbing, and so on.
  
  --
  Om, nomnomnom...
25. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by drinkypoo · 2016-11-25 23:37 · Score: 1
  
  This is why if I were buying a supercar, ha ha ha, I would buy the R8. Audi knows how to build a car that doesn't immediately disassemble itself. Instead of one year, it takes five or six
  Seriously though, I would imagine that Lamborghini reliabilty has skyrocketed in recent years...
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
26. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by drinkypoo · 2016-11-25 23:39 · Score: 1
  
  My 16 year old GMC pickup laughs at your stupid comment.
  We've got a 2000 chevy astro. It's had an engine rebuilt (4.3 V6), it's had the transmission rebuilt (4L60E), fuel pump twice, no power locks work, all door mechanisms are failing, rear axle ate shit and had to be replaced, all body bushings are failing, had to have shitty plastic suspension parts like the idler arm replaced.
  Now, to be fair, my 1992 Ford is out of comission... but everything works except the engine :)
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
27. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by AmiMoJo · 2016-11-26 00:25 · Score: 1
  
  It's the pano roof that really gets me. They want to have it on the Model 3 as well. How did they miss the issues with it not blocking sunlight? They every gave early buyers a free sunshade.
  The parallels with the iPhone 4 antenna issues are striking.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
28. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Ogive17 · 2016-11-26 00:42 · Score: 1
  
  It isn't the manufacturing line, it is the allowable tolerances in the design phase.
  
  --
  "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
29. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-11-26 02:29 · Score: 1
  
  It the main problem of today's BEVs is advanced batteries, what does it even mean that Tesla "poached too many EEs"?
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
30. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by GNU(slash)Nickname · 2016-11-26 02:37 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks for the earworm.
31. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 03:13 · Score: 0
  
  Made in the USA, by overpaid, fat, lazy workers with a sense of entitlement. Move production to Korea and get some Japanese engineers to tweak the designs, then you'd have something.
32. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by 0100010001010011 · 2016-11-26 03:23 · Score: 1
  
  Fire up any job search engine. R&D and development is all still centered around Detroit..
33. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by tsqr · 2016-11-26 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  News flash: Street racers don't race streets. Drag racers don't race in drag. Hot rods are not rod-shaped.
34. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 04:44 · Score: 0
  
  You should have said, "as someone who purchases cars around $100k, and posts somewhat semi-regularly on Slashdot..."
  That sort of narrows things down to a very tiny niche demographic.
  If you slipped and mentioned that Mandarin is a language and not a fruit, then why are you posting anonymously then, Boss?
  Yes, for I am aware that today's captcha is "monarchs"
35. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 04:59 · Score: 0
  
  I drive a model S. Blows my previous BMW 535 and my before that 735i out of the water, specially from a driving/holding the road. Yeah, had a couple of teething problems (all fixed) when I got it (a year ago) and V8 software has some horrible UI changes but, amazing car!
36. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 05:05 · Score: 0
  
  I don't think *anyone* has *ever* complained about the fuel pump in their Tesla.
  So there.
  
  My mom worked for a Dodge dealer for 15 years and processed various paperwork including service and recall shit. She said the dodge viper was the same way. Constant problems. Many had fuel pump issues. Guys would buy these $85k plus cars all the time, make it 4-5 miles down the road and the fuel pump shits out. Car gets towed back. For that kind of money you think the basic hardware would at least function. It's not like the fuel pump is a revolutionary new item.
37. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 05:07 · Score: 0
  
  I have several friends with Teslas, and "going green" wasn't really a part of it.
  The trim may be slightly short of other luxury cars at the same price range, but it accelerates much faster and is generally very fun to drive. It doesn't turn like a sportscar, but it's a large car that no reasonable person would expect to handle like a sportscar. You also get a sense that you're driving the car of the future, between the electric drive, the car interface, and the commitment towards auto-pilot.
  My friends haven't had issues with their Teslas that people are talking about like it's endemic. And, $100K cars are a kind of jewelry for rich people. Functionally they are about the same as a $30K Honda CR-V. You want an expensive car to stand out. Teslas have the "wow" factor, the thing where people are interested in your car. Perhaps the constant articles on Slashdot help build the mystique!
38. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by MachineShedFred · 2016-11-26 05:33 · Score: 1
  
  To be fair, many high-end brands have teething issues with big changes. BMW's N54 engine (straight-6 twin turbo direct injection) had two high-pressure fuel pump recalls and a few VANOS firmware updates before it became reliable and turned into the amazing N55 (twin-scroll turbo) they are shipping in half their cars today.
  
  --
  Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
39. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 06:29 · Score: 0
  
  Based off your previous cars, you clearly know absolutely nothing about em and choose things to be seen in. Kinda like a tesla.
40. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by fluffernutter · 2016-11-26 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  WT FUCK does that have to do with doors stopping and trim falling off?
  
  --
  Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
41. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by fluffernutter · 2016-11-26 06:38 · Score: 1
  
  They are fun to drive in a straight line but they corner like shit. Wooo lots of fun accelerating hard from light to light.
  
  --
  Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
42. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by fluffernutter · 2016-11-26 06:39 · Score: 1
  
  Did you ever drive your BMWs fast around a corner? I'm pretty sure it would be night and day. Driving fast in a straight line gets old fast.
  
  --
  Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
43. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 07:11 · Score: 0
  
  Audi R8 isn't really a supercar. It looks faster than it is.
44. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by thegarbz · 2016-11-26 07:56 · Score: 1
  
  For Tesla to reach the masses, Musk will need to understand not all the people are like his west-coast millionaire early adopters.
  It's almost like he understood that from the start with a plan to build a premium car and get the technology sorted and then bring down into the normal markets, kind of like he's doing with the Model 3.
45. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by thegarbz · 2016-11-26 07:57 · Score: 1
  
  They are fun to drive in a straight line but they corner like shit. Wooo lots of fun accelerating hard from light to light.
  So like every other American car then...
  But seriously if you wanted to tear up a racetrack, a car that many companies are starting to use as taxis is a frigging dumb choice and if you're having issues with the Tesla cornering on a normal road then you should probably have your license suspended.
46. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by fluffernutter · 2016-11-26 08:18 · Score: 1
  
  It's a lot easier to find windy roads to drive down than it is long straight roads. A well handling car is more fun to drive in traffic. Straight line is fun (I have a straight line car. chevy big block) but I grew out of it years ago and I would want more from a car that expensive.
  
  --
  Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
47. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 08:32 · Score: 0
  
  You are sadly mistaken. For example not even near Detroit, but Holland, MI on the beautiful Lake Michigan, near Grand Rapids, craft beer city and Art Prize. Orchards, vineyards, and farm lands.
  http://www.yfai.com/#1
48. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 08:43 · Score: 0
  
  I know nerds obsess over them, but Tesla builds shitty cars. Trim falling off, panel gap issues... as someone who purchases cars around $100k, these are just unacceptable. The Model S is fast but handles like a pig. It's not fun to drive unless you like stop light racing teens. Nor are they luxurious compared to a similarly priced Merc or Audi...
  Uh-huh. Yeah. BULLSHIT
  Go test drive one and see for yourself. Don't take the troll's word for it...
49. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 09:23 · Score: 0
  
  It is always in the future. Never now. In the future the batteries will be cheaper than a gas burners engine. In the future Tesla will produce 10 million cars a year. In the future Tesla's will recharge in only 20 minutes. In the future Tesla's will be less expensive than equivalent cars. In the future Tesla will finally be able to break even.
  I've read in multiple reviews that the Tesla doesn't corner well. That's suicide on the European market with roads that twist and turn as if they were planned by some medieval anarchy (they were ...). Especially for such an expensive car.
50. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by drinkypoo · 2016-11-26 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  Even the v8 car is a supercar, albeit not by a lot. I would actually prefer to own the upcoming sports car version though, to be honest. You can use more of it
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
51. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Bing+Tsher+E · 2016-11-26 09:38 · Score: 1
  
  "Around" Detroit is a safe thing to say. The suburbs around Detroit are very different from the center city.
52. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Bing+Tsher+E · 2016-11-26 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  Advanced batteries isn't really an Electrical Engineering project. It's chemistry and material sciences.
53. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-11-26 11:47 · Score: 1
  
  Advanced batteries isn't really an Electrical Engineering project. It's chemistry and material sciences.
  Just so they don't hire anyone from Samsung to do their battery tech.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
54. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Ol+Olsoc · 2016-11-26 11:59 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously there are major differences such as battery and motors. Teslas are supposedly very mechanically reliable from an automotive aspect. The faults in the X are mostly to do with the doors, trim and other teething troubles.
  As well, I'm not terribly inclined to put too much stock into bad Consumer Reports reviews. I've bought more than one vehicle they didn't like, and the weren't anything like the CR hatchet job promised they would be. They've always been a little too nitpicky and sometimes the reviewer's personal likes comes into play. Minor things like trim are eaily corrected.
  
  Lots of combustion vehicles have these faults too or even more serious issues. My Hyundai diesel's clutch pretty much exploded one day - it was repaired under warranty but apparently it was a common fault in that model.
  But this is Slashdot, you know. I remember when a Tesla caught fire, and the EV deniers had an confirmation bias orgasm, pointing and saying "See? SEE?" forgetting that Petrofueled vehicls were a lot more flammable. All cars have issues on occasion, and unlike Ford, who did everything it could to avoid admitting that it's Pinto car was a fiery death trap, Tesla fixed the issue as soon as they knew of it.
  
  --
  The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
55. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-11-26 22:37 · Score: 1
  
  Really? Have you seen the inside of that battery?
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
56. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by DrXym · 2016-11-26 23:36 · Score: 1
  
  When it comes to the general automotive qualities of the S, X and probably the 3, I don't think there's much to complain about. They've proven that electric vehicles don't break down, don't look weird and can be desirable vehicles.
  That said, the adage "never buy version 1 of anything" applies to cars as much as it does to anything else. Buying a new model of vehicle is just a bad idea. It will launch with defects in its design, production / quality issues and software bugs which will be rectified in later production vehicles. Unless those defects are sufficiently dangerous to warrant a recall, or can be fixed during updates / servicing they'll be there forever. Aside from that Tesla in particular tends to bump up the specs of its vehicles in an iterative fashion. It makes no sense to me why anyone would preorder a model 3 from them even if ultimately it might be a great car.
57. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by cthulhu11 · 2016-11-27 11:41 · Score: 1
  
  As opposed to getting only people who can tolerate living in SC?
58. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by Shirley+Marquez · 2016-11-28 00:23 · Score: 1
  
  Excellent point about Tesla's attitude. When Ford had a car (the Pinto) that had a catch-on-fire problem that could have been fixed with a stronger shield for the fuel compartment, they tried to sweep the problem under the rug rather than fix the cars. When Tesla had a car with a catch-on-fire problem that could be fixed with a stronger shield for the battery compartment, they immediately built a stronger shield and recalled all their cars to install it.
  Of course, they did have the lesson of the Pinto to draw on and they had a lot fewer cars to fix. It will be instructive to see how Tesla changes or doesn't change as they move toward building high volume cars like the Model 3.
59. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by DarthVain · 2016-11-28 03:15 · Score: 1
  
  About the same comment I was going to make. Somehow I think CR perhaps doesn't drive very many real expensive sports cars or perhaps even watched top gear... Having a "ride too firm and choppy" is basically every sports car ever. There is a reason you want tight suspension on a car that can go from 0-60 in 3 seconds. Poor build quality aside, which you point out many high end cars are not immune to, that type of car has different criteria for "value'". Reliability and comfort are definitely not even in the top 5. Heck some of them are admittedly very hard to even drive, and many offer training to buyers so they don't kill themselves. Some sports cars have tried to have adjustable suspension and the like (sport mode etc...), so as not to rattle the teeth out of the driver going to pick up some milk, but many of the purists who buy these toys would say that takes away from the experience.
  Anyway complaining that a sports car has a firm ride is ridiculous.
60. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-28 04:43 · Score: 0
  
  Those stories are quite true. But they're also stories from the past. You name Ferraris, so let's look at those first. The new 488 gets quite a bit of praise for being rather decently built. Probably still not up to modern Mercedes S class levels, but lightyears better than a 20th century Ferrari. But it's not just them. Volkswagen have done magic to get Lamborghini's up to Audi quality.
  Not that I would consider them direct competitors to Tesla; the closest you can get is probably a BMW i8. And that is a rather worrying competitor, if I compare the two. Both are out of my budget new, but I'll probably pick up a second-hand i8 as my next car. It's just a better design at the current state of technology.
61. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by strikethree · 2016-11-28 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  The same can be said about your "test drives" point: millionaires are served if their toy cars can manage the equivalent to a test drive once a month (go see how many miles have a second hand luxury car on its odometer) but consumer cars start to make sense only once you can reliably put 100K miles on them.
  I have a Mercedes Benz E55 AMG. Cost out the door before taxes, 102 thousand dollars. Definitely qualifies as a luxury car... but it also qualifies as a performance car. 500hp/500tq is not a normal performance from a typical car.
  That being said, my "luxury" and performance car has over 130k miles on it and is like brand new. Hell, I put 30k miles on it in the first three months of ownership. I don't do Bentleys but I imagine they are the same: rock solid and hard performing.
  I suspect the types of cars you are thinking of are performance vehicles well over the $100k mark. Probably starting somewhere north of $300k at this point.
  
  --
  "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
62. Re: Tesla builds shit cars by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-28 06:04 · Score: 0
  
  It's not even that it gets old - it's that fun comes from pulling Gs, which only happens in straight-line driving when you accelerate or brake. You can pull a lot of Gs at pretty reasonable speeds if the road is curvy enough.
63. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by rpstrong · 2016-11-28 11:55 · Score: 1
  
  But it's a good earworm.
64. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by rpstrong · 2016-11-28 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  . . . and perhaps breaking system
  
  Having the system break is exactly the issue.
65. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by rpstrong · 2016-11-28 12:05 · Score: 1
  
  There are LOTS of things the Tesla have in common with combustion vehicles. Headlights, [...] tyres, [...]
  Careful there - the Tesla has tires, not those tyres that certain petrol burning vehicles use to roll about on, and on the wrong side of the road to boot (or to trunk?)
66. Re:Tesla builds shit cars by michael_wojcik · 2016-11-29 06:29 · Score: 1
  
  No, no, no. "Stop light racing teens" means you should obstruct the movement of fast-moving, low-mass teenagers. It's not great advice, to be honest, since kinetic energy is directly proportional to mass but proportional to the square of velocity. Better to try stopping heavy slow teens.
Who cares by markus · 2016-11-25 14:39 · Score: 0, Troll

Honestly, who still cares about what Consumer Reports has to say? They are certainly still entertaining, but their reviews have been so flawed for at least the last ten years as to be entirely worthless.
I don't know anything about the Tesla. So, it's conceivable that by sheer luck CR hit on some useful bits of data. But in most likelihood, it's just like all their other publications. Any time I read one of their tests for a product that I'm familiar with, they test some obscure and irrelevant detail and base their entire test on this result. Not surprisingly, good and innovative products tend to fail, and mediocre mass market products get all the praise.
It's been a recurring pattern for way too long
1. Re: Who cares by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 14:43 · Score: 0
  
  This guy is a Russian spy! I made a gui interface using visual basic then tracked his IP address, just how the FBI does it.
2. Re:Who cares by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 14:48 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, because 'innovative' is what everybody wants. What does it even mean?
3. Re: Who cares by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 15:06 · Score: 0
  
  The bosses know EVERYTHING.
4. Re:Who cares by MightyYar · 2016-11-25 15:10 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  You can nitpick his language, but he has a point - Consumer Reports "reliability" ratings blow. They count every problem equally - a power window going on the fritz has the same weight as the transmission falling out the bottom. Add to this that they do not consider the cost of the repair - a Chevy might have an alternator that is less reliable than a Honda, but also costs half as much to replace. Nowhere is that reflected in the rankings. When I'm buying a car I want to know what the total cost of ownership is, how likely it is to leave me stranded, and how much it will cost me to fix in the event that it breaks down - it does not answer any of those questions.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
5. Re:Who cares by AK+Marc · 2016-11-25 16:29 · Score: 1
  
  For things that are measured, they at least try. For handling, they should refer people to a review from a respectable auto-industry mag. They don't have the rght people to know what's "good". I want to see them review a lamborghini. "Horrible seating position, unsafe reversing visibility, stiff ride, poor mileage." Well, obviously, it's a Lambo.
  
  They are helpful if they reviewed one of the thing you wanted, and then you compare it with others to consider. For something nobody has an opinion on, like refrigerators or clothes dryers.
  
  --
  Learn to love Alaska
6. Re:Who cares by swb · 2016-11-25 16:38 · Score: 1
  
  They'd be right. I was in a Ferrari Testarossa and it was awful. You'd have orthapedic problems just sitting in the seat if you were over 5'10. Getting in an out is impossible. Visibility sucks. The ride is harsh on anything but good asphalt. The interior features are minimal and flimsy.
  I think the more recent supercars are all teched up with creature comforts, though.
7. Re:Who cares by HornWumpus · 2016-11-25 16:40 · Score: 0
  
  Consumer reports has been useless regarding cars for far more than ten years. I'm on 30+ years since they 'jumped the shark' for me. That was a review of the 84 'vette...
  Everything is rated as an economy car. Corvette? Rated 'unacceptable' because it's not a economy car. No doubt it's ride is also 'too firm'. God knows what they'd say about yellow konis 'turned up to 11'*.
  Seriously though. People are either CR or Top Gear. If you are CR just stay the fuck out of the fast lane.
  * Not really, only one crank. No doubt they'd call them 'assault shock absorbers' or some such BS.
  
  --
  John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
8. Re:Who cares by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 18:18 · Score: 0
  
  So basically Consumer Reports are the product reviewing equivalent of your typical movie reviewer: the results are pompous and worthless.
9. Re:Who cares by DNS-and-BIND · 2016-11-25 19:29 · Score: 2
  
  ...and yet if it got a glowing review it would be proof positive that Consumer Reports nailed it and has a great reputation for not accepting bribes, etc. Face it, it's just that they trashed your favorite car and now you have to reply by trashing CR.
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
10. Re:Who cares by mjwx · 2016-11-26 03:43 · Score: 2
  
  Add to this that they do not consider the cost of the repair - a Chevy might have an alternator that is less reliable than a Honda, but also costs half as much to replace.
  The problem is, the Chevy will probably break in 4-6 years but the Honda part will last for 20.
  
  Also any calculation will only involve OEM parts, whilst Genuine Honda parts are extremely expensive, anyone with an ounce of intelligence will just by the same part from Bosch or whoever makes it avoiding the OEM tax. Add to that the fact you can get cheaper 3rd party parts for a Honda.
  
  I've had Japanese and European cars, My parents owned Holdens (Chevy in Australia). The Japanese cars was the cheapest to repair, my Euro the most expensive... but both didn't break nearly as much as the Holdens, they didn't cost a bomb to fix like my BMW, but they needed to be fixed more often. As the old joke goes, 97% of Chevys are still on the road... only 3% made it home.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
11. Re:Who cares by MightyYar · 2016-11-26 04:20 · Score: 2
  
  All of what you say might or might not be true, but none of it is captured in the Consumer Reports data. I personally have found my Japanese cars to be more reliable, but also more expensive to fix. My shittiest car was a Chevy Blazer, and I replaced the transmission 3 times... but at the end of the day I had the car for well over 150k+ miles (the speedometer stopped working...) and each transmission rebuild cost only $600 dollars. I'm in a different phase of life now and appreciate the reliability more than the ease of repair, but it would still be good information to have. My latest fix on my Toyota involved a simple radiator swap and the entire AC unit had to be removed for access. This made a quick and cheap repair quite expensive.
  
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  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
12. Re:Who cares by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 05:05 · Score: 0
  
  Not sure I understand all the CR dissing on its auto reviews. When I subscribed, I received a very detailed survey that covered all aspects of vehicle ownership. When 10s of thousands return those and CR publishes the results, you can get a pretty good feel for what areas of a specific vehicle are problematic as they age. This data is really useful if you are in the used car market. For new autos they can only extrapolate from these results, so maybe that's were the angst is coming from.
13. Re: Who cares by bill_mcgonigle · 2016-11-26 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  If CR is basing its Tesla ratings on owner surveys then they're getting very different results than all the other ratings agencies. I'd wonder if the other ones are bought off except that all my friends who have Teslas cannot shut up about how perfect they are, without exception.
  I think it's more likely that the Press reminds people that CR still exists when they get their hate on for Tesla and the people at CR can find narrow excuses to justify their complaints while massively benefitting from the exposure.
  Being bought off and benefiting financially from a review are not the same thing but both can apply bias pressures.
  
  --
  My God, it's Full of Source!
  OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
14. Re:Who cares by fluffernutter · 2016-11-26 06:42 · Score: 1
  
  Well personally I'm glad about that. Not that I would ever buy a Tesla but I would sure want to know if I was paying that much for a car that didn't even have the power windows right. That screams safety hazard right there. If they can't do that, how would you expect them to make a car with a frame that can hold all that torque for the lifetime of a car.
  
  --
  Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
15. Re:Who cares by DarkVader · 2016-11-26 09:15 · Score: 1
  
  They've been critically flawed for longer than that.
  I will never forgive them for nearly killing the digital speedometer. They gave a bad review to every car that had one, to the point that it became almost impossible to find a car with one for years.
  I drive a plug-in hybrid. Literally nothing else on the dash is analog, the rest of it is LCD panels, but it still has an analog speedo. I've got a GPS that I use just so I know how fast I'm going without having to translate dial to number. If the Chevy Volt hadn't been $5k more with significantly less interior space I'd have bought it instead just for the digital speedo.
16. Re: Who cares by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 17:14 · Score: 0
  
  CR bases it's reliability (used to be called "frequency of repair") ratings on surveys of members. They base their performance ratings on driving and measuring actual cars purchased fat retail, not on press-corps specials from the manufacturers. So it's not unusual for something like a Tesla (or the Ford Focus!) to get good performance-based ratings until enough reliability data trickle in, then get downrated because a lot of things need to be fixed. New models almost always get that for the first few years, at least, regardless of carmaker (though the Japanese majors seem to be somewhat immune to it). On the plus side for Tesla, some of the fixes were "over the air" while Ford needs to bring the cars back the dealer for every little tweak. On the double-plus side, Tesla actually seems to improve a little over time, unlike Ford and Chrysler.
17. Re:Who cares by mjwx · 2016-11-27 01:05 · Score: 1
  
  Unfortunately there isn't really a way to capture that information in a report because there are too many factors to consider. That was kind of my point about aftermarket vs genuine parts. There's a lot of factors regarding parts prices, next day vs next week delivery, local and national stock availability, so on and so forth.
  
  My latest fix on my Toyota involved a simple radiator swap and the entire AC unit had to be removed for access. This made a quick and cheap repair quite expensive.
  The starter motor in my BM required the engine to be lifted. Replacing that cost 90 quid in parts, but 190 quid in labour (3.5 hours at 60 pounds an hour). Cars sometimes have these little surprises.
  
  I'm also not looking forward to replacing the roof motor (its not dead yet, but its going). The part is 300 quid but 400 quid for labour as it's a 2 man job. I'm thinking that I'll try to DYI that one.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
18. Re:Who cares by MightyYar · 2016-11-27 02:41 · Score: 1
  
  Well, if they can't figure out a way to aggregate and present data from their thousands of survey respondents in such a way, they will continue to be useless to me. I'm not sure why they can't aggregate repair information - they already do it for maintenance costs. I suppose it would still be useful for people who trade in their car every 5 years.
  
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  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
19. Re:Who cares by MightyYar · 2016-11-27 02:56 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know anything about Tesla's power windows - that was just an example. My point is that your stereo going on the blink is a much less serious problem than being stranded on the side of the road with a mechanical failure. I personally weigh the mechanical failure much more highly than the stereo, so a magazine without this shared value is just a notch above useless.
  
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  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
20. Re:Who cares by AK+Marc · 2016-11-27 09:27 · Score: 1
  
  That they are right is irrelevant. You don't send a vegetarian to review a BBQ joint. You don't send a lactose intolerant person to review an Italian restaurant. And you don't send CR to review a "fun" car.
  
  And getting out isn't impossible, it just requires lessons. The same lessons I learned on an '84 Corvette, I applied to the more modern super-cars (and race cars with a full-cage). But that's all irrelevant to the point that people buy a Ferrari for one of two reasons: To look like a rich jack-hole, or to go fast, neither or which are measured by CR, so CR will *always* miss the point. When some of the most desired cars on the planet are (or would be) rated poorly by CR, it seems that CR would be wrong, not reality.
  
  --
  Learn to love Alaska
21. Re:Who cares by strikethree · 2016-11-28 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  I agree with your message but this line caught my eye
  
  Add to this that they do not consider the cost of the repair - a Chevy might have an alternator that is less reliable than a Honda, but also costs half as much to replace.
  I don't care how cheap it is to fix something if I am left stranded on a dark highway on a stormy night in the middle of nowhere. THAT is the point of reliability. Not that something is cheap to fix. The cost of failure is greater than merely the cost of repairs.
  
  --
  "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
22. Re:Who cares by MightyYar · 2016-11-28 06:57 · Score: 1
  
  I'd just like the data so that I can make my own decision. At one point in my life, my time was pretty worthless (monetarily speaking) and swapping out parts on my cheap, old Chevy with 150k+ was well worth the occasional tow. Now I would have zero patience for that crap.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
23. Re:Who cares by michael_wojcik · 2016-11-29 06:33 · Score: 1
  
  They count every problem equally
  Completely wrong. First, the reliability ratings are broken down by category in the actual CR reports, even if news summaries for idiots condense them into "CU says not reliable". Yes, CR does provide an overall "predicted reliability", but anyone with an ounce of sense who cares about the distinction will look at the breakdown. Second, from their FAQ:
  
  Problems with the engine-major, cooling system, transmission-major, and driveline are more likely to take a car out of service and to be more expensive to repair than the other problem areas. Consequently, we weigh these areas more heavily in our calculations of Used Car Verdicts and Predicted Reliability. Problems such as broken trim and in-car electronics have a much smaller weight. Problems in any area can be an expense and a bother, though, so we report them all in the Reliability History charts.
24. Re:Who cares by MightyYar · 2016-11-29 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  Thanks for the clarification. This was not always the case, and so I haven't bothered with their automotive recommendations for a long time. Maybe I'll give it a fresh look. I'd still like to see a repair cost metric figured into the ratings - that $1000 extended warranty is usually a rip-off, but if you are a BMW owner and need a $7500 transmission, you'll wish you had it.
  
  --
  W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 14:53 · Score: 0, Troll

Every. Fucking. Day. Musk Tesla musk Tesla.
1. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by ShanghaiBill · 2016-11-25 15:34 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Every. Fucking. Day. Musk Tesla musk Tesla.
  If you want to read about Kim Kardashian instead, there are plenty of other sites. But this site is for nerds, and Elon is the king of the nerds. He is building electric cars, solar panels, rockets, and trying to put people on Mars. He co-founded an institute to open source AI. He is like a real life Tony Stark. All the boy nerds want to be him. All the girl nerds want to sleep with him, and still would even if he only had one billion.
2. Re: Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 15:51 · Score: 0
  
  I just want to be a pirate :( (the seafaring kind)
3. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 15:53 · Score: 0
  
  What about all the adult nerds? Because he sure ain't my king.
4. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by BlacKSacrificE · 2016-11-25 16:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'm a hyper intelligent shade of blue and I would woohvool him as well.
  
  --
  [Sorry, this signature is unavailable in your country/region]
5. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 16:07 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  Jesus Christ... I guess Steve Jobs' corpse's cock decayed away too much for you to suck it anymore, so you started on Musk's?
  Musk got rich being a middleman for online beanie baby auctions, and would be nosediving toward bankruptcy right now if it weren't for government subsidies. He doesn't "invent" shit, he steals old ideas and throws money at engineers to make them happen (and still more money at marketers to give his whole empire a trendy, luxury veneer. A ripoff of Jobs and Apple, I suppose). He talks about going to Mars using a ship he sketched on the back of a napkin at lunch, completely ignoring that the whole project is profoundly expensive and unprofitable and would never get off the drawing board (or napkin, as the case may be) unless President Trump woke up one day and decided to write him a $50 billion check.
  Musk's cult of personality - and the worship of tech "visionaries" in general - is just fucking pathetic. On the other hand, billionaire worship is probably the most capitalist, American thing I can think of, so there's that I guess.
6. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by Kremmy · 2016-11-25 16:35 · Score: 0
  
  Seems to be handling that money a whole lot better than the governments would. It takes more than welfare to be successful, and he's extremely successful.
7. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 16:46 · Score: 0
  
  At least three conservative sites have run negative pieces about Musk—by a nonexistent writer named “Shepard Stewart”. Your post sure sounds a lot like that fake-ass "journalist".
8. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by haruchai · 2016-11-25 16:50 · Score: 1
  
  "Musk's cult of personality - and the worship of tech "visionaries" in general - is just fucking pathetic"
  Have you seen who's going to be handed control of the US Military in 2 months time?
  I'll take Musk over Trump any fucking weekday and twice on weekends.
  
  --
  Pain is merely failure leaving the body
9. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 19:28 · Score: 0
  
  Trump can't be president unless he sells off all of his businesses and cuts all ties with foreign powers. Both of those cases violate the constitution.
10. Re: Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 19:45 · Score: 0
  
  Dont know if you're a troll or not, but if not, uh, no they don't. Read the constitution.
11. Re: Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 20:17 · Score: 0
  
  You first: start with article 1 section 9.
12. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 04:58 · Score: 0
  
  Hey, eventually one does get tired of reading about Apple dropping this or that component in the name of (air quote)courage(air quote) and fashion-forward thinking. I want to know what the rich nerds do, with or without Trump in office.
  Today's captcha is "visions", and I, for one am glad there *is* one person out there with plenty of it!
13. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 04:58 · Score: 0
  
  Nice.
  "All the girl nerds want to sleep with him"
  Maybe you could pick you knuckles up off the ground and show some sense my prejudiced peer. Maybe they want to be him or like him or work with him, maybe they want to play with his toys. I think that most people (hopefully all people but you) feel women are more than sex (and money) satisfaction organs and nerd girls specifically might find intellectual satisfaction and just building something that helps humanity as compelling as sexual satisfaction.
  I would guess that most people (nerds) male or female don't "want" to be anyone specifically more likely they want to work with the brightest, most creative and nurturing people and develop their capabilities so they can work on the most advanced or important projects. Why is that thought so elusive to you?
14. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by thegarbz · 2016-11-26 07:59 · Score: 1
  
  Jesus Christ... I guess Steve Jobs' corpse's cock decayed away too much for you to suck it anymore, so you started on Musk's?
  Not at all. Most of us here would happily have a threesome. Alas one of the world changing parties is no longer with us.
15. Re:Let's stop with fucking musk by haruchai · 2016-12-07 10:29 · Score: 1
  
  Trump can't be president unless he sells off all of his businesses and cuts all ties with foreign powers. Both of those cases violate the constitution.
  Trump doesn't care about the rules
  
  --
  Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Enthusiasts are not CR's Audience by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 20:36 · Score: 1

CR's function is pretty simple - make sure Joe Average Consumer doesn't get ripped off. They aren't about highly detailed reviews, those are for hobbyist magazines dedicated to each market. CR is about finding a model of practically any sort of product that is "good enough" and not fatally flawed. That's it. If you expect more of them, then you aren't using them right.
New Tesla Model S60D owner here by River+of+Souls · 2016-11-25 21:38 · Score: 2

OK, I don't post here much but read almost every day. I thought I would bite on this one, enough to change my password that I did not remember.
I don't know what is wrong with Consumer reports (I am a member), but after reading this post, I sat here wondering "hmm, when was the last time I was able to do something useful with one of their reviews?". I can't remember. I joined originally to compare appliances for my house, not sure what an alternative for that would be. For cars, I think you spend more time trying to interpret what their reviews "mean" than actually being able to use it in a purchasing decision, unless it is clear-cut and uncontested. Closest you will get to a car they consistently love, Lexus maybe? (what I was going to get if I did not go Tesla). But that is really boring if there is nothing they don't like about it.
They really liked the Model S at first, then they (now they) say it is unreliable. Based on that, I am not completely surprised about what they are saying about the Model X. I almost bought one, but my use case is better for a sedan and the doors scare me. Even Elon said he went overboard with the doors, just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you SHOULD. Aside from that, I would prefer to let a model X owner chime in and offer their side of it. Or check the forums and ask.
I have owned a Tesla Model S 60D (fully loaded) for about 3 months now. Not sure what to actually say here that won't get me flamed, so I will just try to offer some helpful first-hand insight.
TL:DR - I have a Tesla and I am a regular guy, ask away.
For example, I am a little bothered by this negative post from the "Tesla builds shitty cars" guy, so I will pick that:
quote:
I know nerds obsess over them, but Tesla builds shitty cars. Trim falling off, panel gap issues... as someone who purchases cars around $100k, these are just unacceptable. The Model S is fast but handles like a pig. It's not fun to drive unless you like stop light racing teens. Nor are they luxurious compared to a similarly priced Merc or Audi...
My comments:
- The only thing in the paragraph that is even partially true might be the last statement. I have been in / owned cheaper cars that had better interior or features that I miss or wish my Tesla had / got right. Is it that bad? No, but people expect a car THAT expensive to perfect. I have sat in even more expensive cars, that also have this problem. I think it is more of a problem of expectations than any actual deterrent to buying or owning the car.
- There are people who have had problems with Tesla cars, lots of them. Maybe some of them think they are shitty as a result. I know I had trouble with this when I was researching if I should buy one or not (1-2 months of research I would say, two test drives, 5 or so trips to dealer) mostly because I had to filter through them for some real information. And to be fair, I have had it for only 3 months. Ask me again in 1-2 years or longer. I am asking myself all the time - would I dare to keep this car past the 8-year warranty?
- Fast but handles like a pig? It weighs 5,000+ lbs: so, you would expect that it would not accelerate well and would be too heavy to stay on the road because of things like that pesky F = ma. I could write pages on this, I am an engineer, but this is not a problem. Not only does it not have this problem, but it even exceeds the performance of much lighter cars that really SHOULD handily beat it. If you research why this is, it is because it is one of the things they got right, the short version is put all the weight at the bottom. I think the biggest limitation is actually the limit of my driving skills. I don't even own a "P" (performance) model, those one's that go 0-60 in 2.5/3.0 seconds or so (Yes, I did test drive it). Mine is a regular all-wheel drive with the smallest battery they currently sell. My 0-60 is 5.2 seconds. God bless those people who buy those $110K+, or the $150+ P100D, for me that would be at least $20-$
1. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 21:51 · Score: 0
  
  What about the lacking crash safety?
2. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by drinkypoo · 2016-11-25 23:33 · Score: 1
  
  What about the lacking crash safety?
  What about it? "Witnesses said the car was speeding when it lost control and slammed into a tree." That could kill you in a gasoline vehicle, as well. Probably would, if it happened at a high enough speed. (Putting aside the stupidity of the idea that the car was speeding or lost control... the driver was speeding, and lost control.)
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
3. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 23:42 · Score: 0
  
  The hazard of the lithium batteries caused major fires both inside the car and in the area around it which prevented first responders from reaching the occupants.
4. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by drinkypoo · 2016-11-25 23:51 · Score: 1
  
  The hazard of the lithium batteries caused major fires both inside the car and in the area around it which prevented first responders from reaching the occupants' corpses.
  FTFY
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
5. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-25 23:53 · Score: 0
  
  One was still alive and died later, likely due to the delays.
6. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by queazocotal · 2016-11-26 01:04 · Score: 1
  
  'The impact of the crash disintegrated the car, leaving a debris field over 150 yards long.' - that is a very, very high speed impact.
  http://www-esv.nhtsa.dot.gov/P... - is not clear as to numbers - perhaps around 10% of frontal impacts, and more high speed impacts - lead to fires in conventional vehicles.
  Plus - you can't disconnect crash safety, and post crash performance. If I have a car that never catches fire, but always kills the occupants, it's not better than one that catches fire, and the occupants rarely die.
7. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by bareman · 2016-11-26 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  Plenty of Anonymous Cowards will bash Tesla and say the cars are awful, but yet the named actual owners of the cars love them. Even the one's who've encountered problems with their vehicles. The vast majority of issues have been dealt with satisfactorily. The reliability and build quality issues are being eliminated. All this from a car company that's only 8 years old.
  I look eagerly forward to joining the Tesla family of owners in the next year or so. It's been a long time since someone produced a car that inspires me the way that Tesla has.
8. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by River+of+Souls · 2016-11-26 04:58 · Score: 1
  
  So, yes to the people posting about the accidents. OK, so no-one is forcing you to buy one, you can remain perfectly safe in the gas car of your choice, right? Because they only explode rather than just burn.
  Who are you trying to convince and what are you trying to convince them of?
  I did do allot of research before making a purchase. I did see the articles and those news postings. And after very heavily researching it, I am/was satisfied it was safe for me and my wife and children. Actually, safety was a selling point, not a detractor.
  -RoS
9. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 06:10 · Score: 0
  
  For an idea of what a high-speed crash does to the kind of car most of us (not just the high-buck folks) drive, check out Fifth Gear at Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7dG9UlzeFM. I've seen the results of, and lost a friend in, a head-on crash where both vehicles were doing about 55 mph. Ain't pretty, and has nothing to do with electric or not; it's just physics.
  There seem to be at least 1/2 dozen car fires a day in California, looking at the CHP logs online. Granted, a truck burndown caused by stuck trailer brakes is a "car fire" and happens more often that it should, but still - none of those fires are Teslas, and many if not most are not associated with collisions. There are a lot of fires in collisions involving normal cars too. The battery-fire thing does seem to be mostly controlled by Tesla, with essentially all of them being related to some kind of externally-caused damage (collision or road hazard).
  And remember when CR downgraded the Chevy Volt due to battery fires? The battery fires were due to the car being left operational after a side-impact crash test that damaged the battery. The fire happened some hours after the test, with the car sitting by itself. Overall, I suspect that electric cars have had fewer fires per 1000 miles driven, that are not related to a collision or road hazard, than gasoline-powered cars, but it would be hard to find the data.
10. Re:New Tesla Model S60D owner here by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 17:42 · Score: 0
  
  Denialist much? Lithium batteries are inherently unsafe and present added challenges directly causing the deaths of both Tesla drivers and occupants in crashes.
Not surprising by DrXym · 2016-11-25 22:22 · Score: 4, Insightful

Those gull wing doors were just a silly gimmick. Yeah they look cool but in an SUV, they make zero sense. Aside from all the mechanical / electrical complexity, they're prone to leak, open / close slower than a regular door (too bad if its snowing / raining), prevent the doors from having storage space, prevent a bike / canoe / luggage rack being mounted on the car.
Regular doors work just as well, or even sliding ones. They're cheaper, simpler and more reliable. It should be a no brainer. Of course that assumes the gull wing doors were added to solve a practical problem. The reality is they were probably added to solve a marketing problem - a justification to jack the price up and free press.
1. Re:Not surprising by Gussington · 2016-11-26 00:17 · Score: 2
  
  The reality is they were probably added to solve a marketing problem - a justification to jack the price up and free press.
  This! Gull wing doors are stupid and only add complexity, costs and inconvenience. More importantly it is a sign that Tesla are losing focus on the important things.
This is old news by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 00:10 · Score: 0

The X has been branded a flawed vehicle for some time now. I love how some stories regurgitate around the web as if its new. Consumer Reports has received a lot of complaints through its subscriber surveys on Tesla vehicles. Stands to reason such a complicated and technology driven vehicle would have issues.
1. Re:This is old news by vtcodger · 2016-11-26 03:46 · Score: 1
  
  God only knows what motivates the far Right. I think many of them don't like renewables and therefore dislike Solar City. And in that specific case, they may have a valid point. The SC operation seems kind of shady to me. SC gets the money. The homeowner gets probably expensive electricity and all the risk.
  Why they dislike Tesla, Space-X, and the battery factory escapes me. Private businesses competing with other private businesses. In the case of Space-X, purportedly doing a better job than NASA. What's not to like unless they like me think Musk is ... ahem ... less than honest ... at times in his claims? It's not like those folks can possibly have functioning BS filters.
  
  --
  You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
2. Re:This is old news by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 12:36 · Score: 0
  
  Why do you think that someone who doesn't like a particular Tesla car is 'far right'? Tesla's are way too expensive for the average person. And those who have the money don't necessarily want to pay this much if they can get the same for half the price just to be green. If Tesla cars where just as luxurious as it competitors, then nobody would complain. But this car seems to be flawed according some reviewer. Reviewers tend to do that. Some reviewers don't look at the price. Some reviewers do. Does this particular Tesla do what you can expect from a 100,000+ dollar SUV? Nope it doesn't. It is fast, and it's electric. The downside is that there are better cars at that price range. That doesn't make the reviewer or anyone who might agree 'far right'.
  There is a problem with the battery factory and that doesn't come from 'far right'. There are left wing organizations who warn for the ongoing expropriation in Peru. Indians (Inca's? Native Peruvian? I didn't study political correctness so I don't have the political correct word for those people, I'm really sorry ... ) are forced to give up their land in return for a very low wage and unhealthy job as a miner, giving up their farmer life where they produce their own food for a miners life where they depend on the willingness of the mine owner to provide them food. As usual the mine owner doesn't care for the miners life, and they live in deep poverty with unhealthy work, not enough food for their family and no future. Why? Because there is lots of lithium that is needed by big battery companies. At the top, politicians have to fight lobbyists with lots of money and powerful friends. Corruption is high, murders are plenty. Who will win? The organizations who want to give the farmers/miners a decent share of the profit or the all powerful mining companies? This is really not a 'far right' thing, but rather 'left wing' ...
  People who don't like Space X might be people who don't like privatized space technology. These people don't tend to be 'far right'. It are 'left wing' people who would like to see stated sponsored space travel. There are also people who don't like the lies about Mars colonization. And if it aren't lies and Musk really believes his own prophesies than that's also a reason to not give someone crazy total control of advanced technology. And even then, it's a private company that needs to make money. What guarantee is there that a private company wouldn't sell its rocket technology to some 'evil' business, you know the 'James Bond style' villain?
  It's as far fetched as Musk's claims about living in a simulation. But that people don't like some company doesn't make them far right. Right wing people generally like businesses and say that everyone has the right to do whatever they want, including Musk. Free markets will decide who survives. That's right wing. But those people might not like Musk's ideas because all of them need subsidies to survive. Tesla never made profit and makes promises that it doesn't bring. Right wing people might say that it's time to stop giving tax payer money to fund electric cars. But is that so evil for right wing people to say?
  I've considered myself as center left. But lately I'm more and more inclined to vote for a less progressive party. Our government spends way too much money and it needs to increase taxes and invent other taxes every year. It becomes more and more difficult to start your own business and to hire people. I prefer a society with smaller businesses instead of a society with a handful of large businesses working hand in hand with the government. Yeah, that's rather right wing, but not 'far right'. I prefer it when people can work hard to come out of poverty over needing the right 'papers' to get a good wage. I've been lucky as 'computer scientist' (although there is no science in it), but I see many people with the wrong papers who can't find a decent job. Most of them are now stuck in a subsidized job without future or satisfaction. I feel for them, and I feel that soon I will have to join them. Not wanting free handouts is not left wing, I know, but also not some evil far right thing...
Folding seats since 1914 by raymorris · 2016-11-26 02:58 · Score: 2

In a hatchback, you put hinges on the rear seats so they fold forward. Folding seats were innovative 1914, over a hundred years ago, and they aren't any different just whether the engine is a flat 4, a V8, or electric. Tesla literally could have used the exact same seats from any 1970s station wagon.
They're a hundred years behind in basic utility features and "innovation" isn't an excuse.
Re:$110,000 cars by arth1 · 2016-11-26 03:02 · Score: 1

I think quite a few luxury SUV manufacturers might have an issue with that statement...
Re:$110,000 cars by vtcodger · 2016-11-26 03:26 · Score: 1

"Tesla cars have a much larger cargo capacity than any other $110,000 car"
Three bags of groceries?

--
You can't see ANYTHING from a car, You've got to get out of the goddamned contraption and walk...Edward Abbey
Second This!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 04:04 · Score: 1

I gotta second this!
Last summer I was shopping for a Minivan. Consumer Reports gave the Toyota a better score than the Kia. I dug into that. Turns out the Toyota automatically brakes when it detects an eminent collision. The Kia just warns you. No mention anywhere of all Toyota's problems with unintended acceleration, their widely documented software faults, etc. No mention of Kia's surround-cameras that make parallel parking a breeze. (Real killer app that. Check it on youtube. It's even better in person!)
About a week after I bought the Kia the eminent collision alarm sounded. Rainy day. Winding twisting road. Up and down hills. You know, the sort where speed limits are strictly enforced by natural selection... I was going around a curve, another fellow was going the other way, just perfectly timed to trip the alarm. No danger, we were each safely in our own lanes. But if the Kia had auto-brakes... Well with all the electronic stability stuff, I might have avoided skidding out during a hard brake. But I'm pretty sure the guy behind me in a rusted out '68 chevy would have plowed through me and pushed into oncoming traffic.
I came that close to being a traffic statistic! Thanks for nothing CR.
And geeze, CR will compare Google Docs to Microsoft Office, but they won't even mention LibreOffice. Yeah. That seems balanced...
1. Re:Second This!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 05:54 · Score: 0
  
  In the Toyota v Kia example, I also would prefer the Kia, or at least a mostly insensitive (only at the last second) autobrake like the Mercedes thing of some years ago that detected a sustained hard brake press and invoked full-stop ABS (though if you backed off so would it). For the same reason. CR in my experience has always been odd for car ratings - must be supplemented with other research - because they're part of the safety nanny establishment. Useful, but should not be the primary source of information. Same thing for other things, like audio equipment, though at one time they did care about, for instance, speaker accuracy. Home appliances, vacuum cleaners, and the like, they're good at, though even there they've reduced the amount of actual performance data in recent years. In all, probably worth reading, but not worth blindly following.
Teslas are becoming mainstream by mi · 2016-11-26 04:56 · Score: 2

The problem is they're trying to move into the general consumer market where it's not enough to be fully electric and cool
Yes... Tesla's original awesomeness was like that of a talking horse, who amazes by the mere fact of talking. That it talks with a heavy accent and has a very limited vocabulary does not diminish the awe. Initially.
But then, slowly, it gets treated like any other talker, and the audience begins noticing the flaws. Tesla is entering this stage now.

--
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Re:$110,000 cars by glitch! · 2016-11-26 05:32 · Score: 1

Three bags of groceries?
(Ob 4 Yorkshiremen) "Luxury!" When Road & Track reviewed the Lotus Europa, they wrote that the front trunk had enough room to hold a few handkerchiefs and a small amount of sand.

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A dingo ate my sig...
fake car by Anonymous Coward · 2016-11-26 06:44 · Score: 0

All these teslas are contradictory fake cars. an electric car beefed up like a mustang? why? maybe for those born with SDS (small dick symdrome ) who knows... if you really do care about emissions or your wallet, real power efficient solutions are small cars like hum ALL the other eCars options rather than teslas...
re: gull wing doors by King_TJ · 2016-11-26 08:55 · Score: 1

I retrofitted the doors on my Hyundai Genesis Coupe to open "lambo style", similar to this, some years ago.
In theory, there are some practical advantages to the design, including ability to get in and out when you're parked in a tight space. (Many times in parking garages, I've found they painted the lines so narrowly spaced to maximize capacity that you can't get in or out without your door touching the car next to you. Vertical "scissor" or "lambo" doors would solve this problem.)
In reality though? I found that it's definitely an engineering challenge that requires a lot more care and expense in the design to do it "right". Even with the kit I used, which was supposedly "best in class", I found the metal hinges used weren't made of a thick enough steel to avoid a lot of flexing. (Once you have a door open, up in the air -- it acts like a big lever when wind blows against it.) And the shocks that help hold the door up and make it easy to open and close are subject to wear over time. After a year or two, it's likely it won't hold a door up at the exact same height as the door on the other side of the car. There were also finicky adjustments that had to be made so the door closed just right when it was pulled closed. Generally, they'd get out of adjustment and need tweaking every 6 months or so.
I can see how all of this could be addressed better in a car designed to use them from the start, vs. a retrofit. But the experience convinced me that you're going to pay a big premium for doors that open this way, and it's likely to be more of a maintenance issue than standard doors and hinges.
Reno by Latent+Heat · 2016-11-26 09:37 · Score: 1

Not to mention that annoying train whistle in the middle of the night.
Tesla durability problems by Latent+Heat · 2016-11-26 09:39 · Score: 1

. . . I heard they leak oil and loose their compression . . .
1. Re:Tesla durability problems by Gornkleschnitzer · 2016-11-28 03:38 · Score: 1
  
  That's nothing - their carburetor problems are worse.
Re:$110,000 cars by Bing+Tsher+E · 2016-11-26 09:55 · Score: 1

The trunk of my 1984 Volkswagen Jetta could carry two old vacuum tube mainframe Tektronix oscilloscopes. With room to spare. That was a trunk.
My gripe with the Model X by AlanObject · 2016-11-27 07:21 · Score: 1

I waited for years for the Model X. I drive the only SUV Hybrid (Ford Escape Hybrid -- no longer made) because I want the greenest car that can go off-road. I go off road for about 1% of my driving but I am a member of the 5% of SUV owners that do go off road.
I thought the Model X would be its replacement. No way as it turned out. No roof-rack -- not even as a custom mod -- so it can't carry a canoe or a kayak or whatever. On top of that the carriage just wouldn't make it on some of the roads I drive.
They shouldn't be allowed to call it an SUV. It is a mini-van. For soccer-moms and the like that's just great, but nobody serious into sports.