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Microsoft Exec Urges Linux Developers To Try Windows 10 (softpedia.com)
An anonymous reader shares a Softpedia article: Microsoft has finally acknowledged the potential that the open-source world in general, and Linux in particular, boasts, so the company is exploring its options to expand in this area with every occasion. Most recently, an episode posted on Channel 9 and entitled "Improvements to Bash on Windows and the Windows Console" with senior program manager Rich Turner calls for Linux developers to give up on their platforms for Windows 10. "Fire up a Windows 10 Insiders' build instance and run your code, run your tools, host your website on Apache, access your MySQL database from your Java code," he explained. Turner went on to point out that the Windows subsystem for Linux is there to provide developers with all the necessary tools to code just like they'd do it on Linux, all without losing the advantages of Windows 10. "Whatever it is that you normally do on Linux to build an application: whether it's in Go, in Erlang, in C, whatever you use, please, give it a try on Bash WSL, and importantly file bugs on us. It really makes our life a lot easier and helps us build a product that we can all use and be far more productive with, he continued. Editor's note: The original title from Softpedia was edited because it was misleading. A Microsoft employee doesn't represent the entire company (at least in this instant he wasn't speaking for the company), and at no point has he asked "all Linux developers" to "give up" on Linux.
Yeah, sure...
Why the fuck would any Linux developer want to do this? It's not as if Windows 10 offers any significant, or even real, architectural advantage, and it's not like Linux doesn't have plenty of its own development tools. So far as I can tell, Windows 10 has absolutely no developer advantages at all, and in fact, simply represents a pointless extra layer for any developer working on Linux.
You know, I almost preferred the Gates-Ballmer Microsoft, because it was brilliantly maniacal. The new Microsoft is just a whining pathetic pack of halfwits who can't really even decide what direction their company should go. Sure, they may be more open source friendly, but so the fuck what?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Because seriously, there is positively no way I will ever put Windows on any computer that I ever own unless I am being paid what I think my time is worth for the inconvenience.
So since it's clearly not worth your time to pay me to use it, it's not worth mine to install it.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
During development of any project, configuration and the ability to own the software environment often comes into play. It really comes down to, I'd rather not have them in my system changing things without my permission.
But they did say please:
please, give it a try on Bash WSL
If you're going to solicit charity, IMO you should be a charity, not a for-profit company.
Someone had to do it.
Fire up a Windows 10 Insiders' build instance and run your code, run your tools, host your website on Apache, access your MySQL database from your Java code
or i run these tools on Linux, which has a 20+ year track record of running this software, and not some OS that conveniently added support once they realized the future of cloud computing was entirely based around avoiding their historic and well documented efforts to intentionally fuck up everything they touch.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Remove the forced updates and spyware first.
And why should any developer be interested in moving to another platform just to help MS find bugs?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
This reads a lot like telling someone who already owns a house and is completely free of their mortgage that they should just throw all caution to the wind, give their house away to some random stranger, and spend the next 25 years paying for a new home with less than half of the square footage and no basement.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
What if you don't like Ubuntu?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
But the whole point of this plea isn't to get more Linux developers writing Windows software, but rather to switch to their Ubuntu-on-Win10 subsystem to continue developing Windows software.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The desktop is running Linux. It is just in your hand, and not on your desk anymore.
Desktops became laptops, became Smart Phones. The modern "desktop" is touch based running on your phone.
IF Microsoft could explain how to develop Android (or iOS) on Windows 10 is better than any other platform, I'd be all ears.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
"Turner went on to point out that the Windows subsystem for Linux is there to provide developers with all the necessary tools to code just like they'd do it on Linux, all without losing the advantages of Windows 10"
lol, wut?
There has never been a time developing on Linux where I thought, "gee, I wish I were on Windows right now." When I'm on Windows, I hate it. Everything is so tedious on Windows, and everything from the registry to using escape characters for path delimiters just makes no sense.
The modern "desktop" is touch based running on your phone.
But what device do you use to do actual work then?
CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
no basement.
Deal breaker.
CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
I use Linux because I care a lot about my freedom and privacy. Why would I subject myself to such an OS/product in stark contrast with what I care about, and as a developer, create things to encourage others to do so too? Come back when you care more about freedom and privacy than about maximum profits.... see you never.
Exactly, technically it seems Win 10 is pretty good. What kills it for me it's the hideous mobile-like UI but mainly the spying and blatant pushing of Ms' own products inside of Windows itself. An OS should let the user take control. Windows 10 takes part of that control away from the user but most of all an OS should not have spying nor publicity.
I can use anything I get my hands on. I have windows servers I can RDP in from just about any device I have. I have Google Drive for my documentation that surpasses anything Microsoft has to offer, and again, I can have access from just about any device I have. I have SSH to manage my Linux Servers, which I have access from just about any device I have.
So, I am not sure what you mean by "actual work" ;)
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Over my dead Zune!
Table-ized A.I.
Film at 11.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
Desktop isn't on the "desktop" any more. It moved to a Laptop, and now is on your Smart Phone.
Yes, I read before I posted. I'm just seeing beyond the historical to the now. IF by chance you see "desktop" and think "Windows/Mac", that is your problem. By that definition, the "year of Linux on the desktop" will never be. Because Linux isn't going to replace "Windows" as an OS on Intel PCs. It has however, gone and become Android and ChromeOS. It even runs on just about every other micro-controller like Raspberry Pi and Arduino. Linux is running on the Servers that make up just about every online "cloud" based activity you can think of and are the back-end of so many "apps" you use today.
I would suggest to you, that Linux is more involved in your daily "work" than windows is. Windows is basically a terminal for me.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Agreed, I've done it a few times for easy or urgent bugs, and it's not fun.
Interestingly, as much as I love vim on the desktop, it's so much more useful (comparatively) when you're stuck on a phone keyboard.
Right after Microsoft releases Office for Linux.
So far as I can tell, Windows 10 has absolutely no developer advantages at all
In the mobile and server fields, I'd agree. But in the desktop field, the advantage of Windows is in the economies of scale of having far more users than X11/Linux has.
I'll be sure to tell the 1% of developers still building apps for desktop OS:es.
Newflash: It's a dead market. The web won.
I always think about Spender from GrSecurity when I read this. He uses windows to develop for Linux because it makes him more productive.
As a long time every day user and programmer (Linux, FreeBSD since year 1, MacOS for 28 years, Windows for 20 years), of all major platforms I'm using Linux desktop primarily (and most of my colleagues use OSX) but.. I cannot disagree with Spender. I'd be more productive on Windows for my Linux code (than on either OSX or Linux). I just choose the Linux desktop for other reasons ("I like it" "ideology" "its slowly getting there").
Still, today, Win10 is still the faster, more productive environment for Linux code.. oh and its always extremely good for Windows code too - as long as you don't use old APIs, which really, you shouldn't anymore.
Basically, the Windows platform is very much underrated. No nonsense, super compatible, very fast. They just have a terrible, terrible reputation.
But what device do you use to do actual work then?
I do all my real written on by phone. I can't think of anything else that souls by neuter. Isn't in typing this puts using predictive heresies to you right vote.
- Posted from a Samsung Galaxy S. Please forgive the typos.
I once believed that too and used exclusively laptops for many years. However once I moved back to a proper desktop at work it was like being freed from a prison camp and going into this nice big mansion (and I'm not talking about the Spencer Mansion here). Have played around with ssh from the first iPAQ to my current Note 4 and it's cumbersome, slow and awkward.
So if you refuse to work for Microsoft for free, you have no right to complain that they don't hire testers?
So let me get this straight. I should switch from a free development environment, that I can install on as many machines as I want, that doesn't feed me ads, that doesn't phone home with my information, that doesn't auto-update unless I configure it to and that ships with source code, to a system that costs money, costs more money to install on multiple machines, feeds me ads, phone home with my information, auto-updates by default and is closed-source?
What's the value proposition here, again?
I've been on Linux as a desktop for over 15 years now, I don't know what people are talking about when they are saying what you are saying, that there will be no Linux on the desktop. So if that's true, then what have I been using all this time?
You can't handle the truth.
The article was not written by Microsoft. And Microsoft has made it ubuntantly clear (couldn't help myself) that they are providing a native Ubuntu image that runs on top of the Windows Subsystem for Linux.
A Canonical representative was present at the announcement and said the following:
it's the exact same root filesystem, the same root tarball, identical--bit for bit, checksum for checksum--as Ubuntu in Azure, or any other public cloud, on a bear metal machine or virtual machine if you install Ubuntu, or if you are running Ubuntu in a Docker container or LXD container or any other container
It's identical to what you would download off Canonical's site except:
- WSL translates user mode system calls to the NT kernel instead of using a real Linux kernel
- requisite init tweaks from the default (since it isn't actually booting the machine)
All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
My desktop being my computer, right? I am running Mint right now with xfce on my laptop, 2 monitors, one with a bunch of terminal sessions, another with a browser (the one I am posting this from).
I don't need anything to overtake anything for me to have my desktop based on a GNU/Linux distro, I am not being 'pedantic', I seriously don't understand people who are talking about it this way. My year of Linux on a desktop happened back in 2001.
You can't handle the truth.
Please mod parent up. I too have been running Linux on the desktop for many years, and I can do everything I need to do, whether locally or on the net. Sure, there's a few apps that don't work but then there's Wine and virtualization.
As more ecosystems appear, such as smart devices, cloud computing and who knows what's next, the smaller portion of the whole mess will be operating closed, proprietary software, since anyone building and selling these systems won't want to pay for that software when better software is free. When "hello world" in C++ is over 1 MB, you know there's cruft in there that you DON'T need. Why would a device maker want to include that in their product?
Hopefully as users and business realize they don't need to pay the rent-seekers just to use computers, those rent-seekers will fade away.
Sometimes the "writing on the wall" is blood spatter...
Same reason nobody uses the windows store: Few developers write applications for it.
If you want to write a desktop application (which few people do anymore; it's all about web applications these days) win32 tends to be your best target.
Meanwhile, if you want to write server side application, Linux tends to be your best target.
technically it seems Win 10 is pretty good. What kills it for me it's the hideous mobile-like UI but mainly the spying and blatant pushing of Ms' own products inside of Windows itself.
How about the forced updates and surprise reboots? How about notification popups in the middle of full screen slide presentations? How about the endless stream of malware infections? How about the zillion horrible annoyances that one tends to forget about until they bite you?
How about not being able to look at the source when you want to know what's wrong with it?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Didn't anyone alert their marketing department that it doesn't really matter what device you are on.. and that the goodness is whats ON the Internet? A Belchfire 2020 running latest software from Frobnitz company sees the same CNN.com feed. Viewing platform is no longer relevant, as it was.
That's precisely why Android alone is already seeing WAY WAY more use than Windows is, and it and iOS are killing Windows among regular users. However if somebody buys a PC, then they likely have a specific use case in mind that is specific to windows.
In fact I'm of half of a mind to suspect that Android (in the form of Andromeda) will eventually replace Windows for regular desktop users, though I don't have a crystal ball. If that does happen though, then indeed, Linux will dominate the desktop.