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Encryption Backdoor Sneaks Into UK Law (theregister.co.uk)

Coisiche found a disturbing article from The Register about the U.K.'s new "Snoopers' Charter" law that has implications for tech companies around the world: Among the many unpleasant things in the Investigatory Powers Act that was officially signed into law this week, one that has not gained as much attention is the apparent ability for the U.K. government to undermine encryption and demand surveillance backdoors... As per the final wording of the law, comms providers on the receiving end of a "technical capacity notice" will be obliged to do various things on demand for government snoops -- such as disclosing details of any system upgrades and removing "electronic protection" on encrypted communications. Thus, by "technical capability," the government really means backdoors and deliberate security weaknesses so citizens' encrypted online activities can be intercepted, deciphered and monitored... At the end of the day, will the U.K. security services be able to read your email, your messages, your posts and private tweets, and your communications if they believe you pose a threat to national security? Yes, they will.
The bill added the Secretaries of State as a required signatory to the "technical capacity" notices, which "introduces a minor choke-point and a degree of accountability." But the article argues the law ultimately anticipates the breaking of encryption, and without customer notification. "The U.K. government can certainly insist that a company not based in the U.K. carry out its orders -- that situation is specifically included in the new law -- but as to whether it can realistically impose such a requirement, well, that will come down to how far those companies are willing to push back and how much they are willing to walk away from the U.K. market."

137 comments

  1. They never learn by volodymyrbiryuk · · Score: 5, Informative

    These backdoors will be exploited by criminals. Hopefully IT companies won't comply to this madness.

    --
    sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
    1. Re:They never learn by mSparks43 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You mean someone other than the people who work in the uk government, like that bunch of criminals isnt enough?

      More importantly I suspect this will quite quickly drive many large businesses out of London. Those companies rely on their secrets, the prospect of any bored intern "with their heart in the right place" being able to send their every dirty secret to the daily mail almost certainly will gaurantee those already concerned by brexit relocate their offices sharpish.

    2. Re:They never learn by Freischutz · · Score: 2

      These backdoors will be exploited by criminals. Hopefully IT companies won't comply to this madness.

      You mean someone other than the people who work in the uk government, like that bunch of criminals isnt enough?

      More importantly I suspect this will quite quickly drive many large businesses out of London. Those companies rely on their secrets, the prospect of any bored intern "with their heart in the right place" being able to send their every dirty secret to the daily mail almost certainly will gaurantee those already concerned by brexit relocate their offices sharpish.

      Relax boys, it's all being done in the name of freedom.

    3. Re:They never learn by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      So exactly how does one force a back door into FOSS software, ban it?

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    4. Re:They never learn by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The telco access, the court document that first allowed your ISP to log you. That would be the national record of interest to anyone looking.
      The UK has a long history of court and police data walking.
      "Journalists caught on tape in police bugging" ( 21 September 2002)
      https://www.theguardian.com/uk...
      Beyond that if your of interest to the GCHQ or NSA, expect some device or OS (hardware or software) on your network to be altered to log any password used or entered.
      Any new hardware bought online might be altered during shipping.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:They never learn by lsatenstein · · Score: 2

      These backdoors will be exploited by criminals. Hopefully IT companies won't comply to this madness.

      No more on-line banking ever more as you know it. If the government can get the decryption capability, so can the criminals.
      Not only that, dare you to use your credit/debit card at any retailer. WOW,

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    6. Re:They never learn by alex67500 · · Score: 1

      not sure if I should mod you Funny, Insightful or Troll... =)

  2. Ah, I get it. All comments are encrypted. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well played, community. Well played.

  3. Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by BoRegardless · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The government wants back doors on demand, but sooner or later a government worker will see the opportunity to sell the details ...

    And he then retires.

    1. Re:Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      In prison. Although the damage will still be done.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by johanw · · Score: 1

      In prison? Only if he isn't smart enough to be outside the UK when he releases the documents. He could keep Snowden company for example.

    3. Re:Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      If he was smart, he wouldn't break the law in the first place. Criminals think they won't get caught.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re: Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole idea that not breaking the law is some gallantry act is bollocks. Our society has progressed by the masses protesting and ignoring frivolous laws.

    5. Re:Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and be seen as a traitorous piece of shit living in a crappy country that doesn't care about you?

      yup...they could

    6. Re:Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by SimonJackson5383 · · Score: 1

      Does this not make the government an accessory before the fact. An inciter of said crime.

    7. Re:Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, Snowden treatment is only if he reveals it to the true enemy - the general public. If he just sells it to one other nation state that is just business as usual, nothing personal. Look at how pissed off everyone as a part of the intelligence apparatus got at Snowden vs other spies caught selling data for money.

    8. Re:Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      The government wants back doors on demand, but sooner or later a government worker will see the opportunity to sell the details ...

      And he then retires.

      Is it not possible that the government employee was already paid off by insuring this potential security breach gets into law?

      I am a security freak. Being a retired senior (65+) I get free banking in Canada. I have two bank accounts and I use one for holding an amount to cover credit card purchases, and of course my credit card fallback goes against that bank account.

      This new law allows every institution's encryption security to be handed over the the government along with test cases. So much for privacy.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    9. Re:Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      And?

      Crown immunity, mate.

      One of the reasons that some people want Britain to leave Europe. and on e of the reasons that some people want to leave Britain for Europe.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    10. Re:Opportunity Cost + Retirement Fund by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't bring your brexit bullshit here please mate. Less than 30% of the electorate voted for this asinine bollocks so don't think you can represent.

  4. Actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since it only requires a magistrate to sign a warrant not a judge just assume that no warrant is needed. Everyone's data will be collected regardless of guilt.

  5. For added fun. by queazocotal · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The term used 'relevant provider' - if you dig through the definitions is only defined as 'a person who provides a postal or telecommunications service' - which is broad enough to cover basically anything from someone running a wifi hotspot on to a massive ISP.
    It can also plausibly be read as software vendors - including open source ones resident in the UK (or for who it is considered reasonable to compel even though they are outside the uk).
    This is UK primary legislation - it has theoretically been scrutinised by both houses of parliament.
    The actual enabling secondary legislation - that specifies how all this works and lets us understand how bad it is will just go through on the nod.

    1. Re:For added fun. by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      It can also plausibly be read as software vendors - including open source ones resident in the UK (or for who it is considered reasonable to compel even though they are outside the uk).

      Better encryption will just have to be anonymously created and maintained. But, once again, our dependence on the ISP for service makes all that moot when they engage in deep packet inspection and block and report all unauthorized protocols traveling through their wire. The only long term solution will be P2P ad hoc networking. There is no other way.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:For added fun. by queazocotal · · Score: 2

      P2P ad-hoc doesn't really work. Mesh has various spectral problems - there isn't enough free legal spectrum.
      In addition, without a central operator, everyone has the opportunity to cheat, and use more of the bandwidth for their traffic than is fair.
      This, and bottlenecking due to random distribution of nodes means it basically can't work unless the P2P/mesh is over a very short distance of a few nodes only and it then hops off to the 'proper' internet.

    3. Re:For added fun. by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      P2P ad-hoc doesn't really work.

      So it's hopeless then? Should we just put our hands up, and say *We surrender*? I, for one, would love to know what would work. Personally I see the latency, bandwidth, jamming issue as a temporary one. Obstructions are meant to be overcome. Let's use any and all means available, and let the authoritarians weep.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    4. Re:For added fun. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the very least, there will be a long cat and mouse period of evolving steganography and detection methods before we get to that point. It would be relatively easy to stop people setting up large scale mesh networks anyway, radio spectrum use is already regulated, easily detectable, and all that would be required is tightening up the laws about running unapproved wifi access points etc.

    5. Re:For added fun. by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Yeah, no doubt about it, we will have to be mobile, and maybe plant little self powered access points all over the city, in office broom closets, or in sunny spots in the street. Kinda "sprinkle" them around, keep 'em chasing after ghosts. What is really needed is to turn the majority away from authoritarian governments. That is the hard part. In the meantime, cat and mouse it is. May the best man win...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    6. Re:For added fun. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need the power of the masses, not tech, to get out of that scenario. Go out and get them to vote for the right thing. That's the only way to get things to change..

    7. Re:For added fun. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, once again, our dependence on the ISP for service makes all that moot when they engage in deep packet inspection and block and report all unauthorized protocols traveling through their wire.

      Steganography might help here, no?

    8. Re:For added fun. by HiThere · · Score: 1

      That only works if at least one of the candidates is "the right thing".

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    9. Re: For added fun. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surrender? That would imply there is a war going on and "we" are some kind of army. This is not the case. There is no war, you see: there are policies some of us do not agree with, but it seems we're a minority. I am not part of any army, I don't wear a uniform, I don't bear arms. I'm really sad - and more than a little worried - if you are so delusional as to think otherwise.

    10. Re: For added fun. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Then it's over. The Internet is a lost cause. So what? Are you so attached to a mere communication network? Did it mean that much to you? Is your life over now?

    11. Re:For added fun. by queazocotal · · Score: 1

      In principle, something that can transmit text messages is doable.
      If you want a 'internet' that looks like the current one without centralised bodies, you need links between nodes that are many thousands of times faster than the desired peak per-user bandwidth.
      This is for the obvious reason that you'll need thousands of hops in order to get to the next state, never mind the next country.
      If those nodes all want to use the internet, then the amount of bandwidth you get per node is (simplistically) (1/number of nodes)*bandwidth.
      In real life, it's not as good as this, because the routing is a major problem, and some nodes will be bottlenecked.
      Unfortunately, latency, bandwidth, jamming are inherent in the actual physics of the situation.

      This only gets worse if you consider nodes trying to 'cheat' and get several times their fair share - which rapidly causes the above optimistic assumptions to fail.
      It also doesn't consider the case of actively interfering jamming nodes.

  6. The only communications affected by Alain+Williams · · Score: 3, Insightful

    will be for law abiding citizens and low grade criminals/terrorists/... The real bad boys will know how to and will use good encryption. But then I can't see that the food standards agency would be interested in real, hard, nasty people. This is why people are calling Theresa May the Pry Minister.

    1. Re:The only communications affected by Freischutz · · Score: 2

      will be for law abiding citizens and low grade criminals/terrorists/... The real bad boys will know how to and will use good encryption. But then I can't see that the food standards agency would be interested in real, hard, nasty people. This is why people are calling Theresa May the Pry Minister.

      Oh, I think they are calling her way worse names than that.

    2. Re:The only communications affected by John+Allsup · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wrote a letter to my MP, which was forwarded to some minister, who replied with the usual political "don't think it's right criminals and terrorists can communicate in secret" lines, saying that they do not intend to prevent people using strong cryptography (oblivious to the contradictions in what he wrote), and essentially the whole point, that end-to-end encrypted messaging can be achieved by anybody with a LAMP stack online somewhere and a couple of hours to write a few hundred lines of PHP, Javascript and HTML (using croptojs). We have a government of technologically clueless idiots.

      --
      John_Chalisque
    3. Re:The only communications affected by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The really bad guys don't even bother. All the recent terror attacks have one thing in common: they didn't bother much with encryption.

      That's why governments want these laws. They think they will be able to spot these attacks. They are wrong, they will be overwhelmed with data and the bad guys will quickly start encrypting, along with everyone else. The damage done to the economy will be difficult to measure, but significant.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:The only communications affected by johanw · · Score: 1

      Everyone could download Signal, and if that would be blocked switch a VPN or to Silence which uses sms encryption.

    5. Re:The only communications affected by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      They will just revert to the trusted networks of the 1950-80's. A holiday, tour, massive flow of illegal migrants, students, study trip or part of the jet set. Takes a few days or weeks for the round trip but no calls, voices or computer needed. MI6 or the CIA might get a photo of a meeting but if nothing is said and no later digital files exist...
      The security service contractors sold the UK that every interesting person, group cult, faith, political party, criminal would always talk on the phone (voice print), use a fax and have network computers, bank accounts just like in the 1980's over the next decades.
      A phone call, file, computer network would always play a key role in any activity.
      The interesting people just revert to their own face to face global networks. For that the security services need local informants. Thats hard too if interesting groups are closed and never need strangers.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:The only communications affected by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      The security services would have dedicated efforts on any trending app.
      VPN use does not pose any issues to the GCHQ. It even makes the more interesting people more easy to find on any UK network :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    7. Re:The only communications affected by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadly your sig says it all.. :(

      (lucien86 - stupid rating / anon posting rules..)

      Below the speed of light General Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics. Above the speed of light.. (General Relativity is a vague half-formed guess that can be proved wrong by basic geometry.)

    8. Re:The only communications affected by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Bear in mind, the cunts who are doing all this (Tories) are about 15 percentage points ahead in the polls.

      Yeah, the British actually are that stupid.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    9. Re:The only communications affected by Maritz · · Score: 1

      That's why governments want these laws. They think they will be able to spot these attacks.

      No. They want the laws because it enshrines them in power and gives them blackmail opportunities. The 'terrorism' bit is a convenient excuse and nothing more. They do not want to stop terrorist attacks at all.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    10. Re:The only communications affected by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Yeah the GCHQ are godlike entities who can factor any large prime you care to mention. Spastic.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  7. End-to-end encryption by PPH · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can badger my comms provider all you want. They don't have access to my keys or software.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
    1. Re:End-to-end encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe everybody in the UK will be required to run a Bundestrojaner type setup that will snarf all their keys on demand. Protected with Trusted Computing, naturally. All you need is some creative interpretation of "relevant provider" so that the end user is a relevant provider of the E2E crypto.

    2. Re:End-to-end encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So long as the end of your end-to-end encryption doesn't end in the UK from a "service provider". We have crept back towards a centralised model for everything from email and spreadsheets to code hosting. Next step is to put the internet back into the hands of the users with decentralised tech... Funny thing is hard transformative change only tends to come about in situations like this, that that's the upshot :)

    3. Re:End-to-end encryption by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      What will be your solution be when your comm provider blocks "illegal" encryption?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    4. Re:End-to-end encryption by presidenteloco · · Score: 3, Interesting

      this

      the challenge is to make truly decentralised versions of Internet communications technology popular and easy to use, therefore adopted widely. ...and to do this quickly, so decentral tech can be well established before governments try to make decentral and personally owned comms and encryption technology illegal.

      --

      Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    5. Re:End-to-end encryption by currently_awake · · Score: 2

      That's alright, the provider of your OS will be compelled to "update" your machine to provide them your code keys.

    6. Re:End-to-end encryption by Pieroxy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What will be your solution be when your comm provider blocks "illegal" encryption?

      Use steganography. If they believe it's not encrypted, they'll let it go through.

    7. Re:End-to-end encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's based on the flawed assumption that the wide adoption or acceptance of something protects it against being squashed by authorities if it's enough of a problem to them. The last few years should have relieved you of that misconception. Only technological solutions which make enforcement sufficiently impractical are enough.

    8. Re:End-to-end encryption by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Security through obscurity, yeah, I guess that could work. Might not do much against traffic analysis though. I still would rather see some form of independence from the ISP where we can broadcast and receive without anybody knowing where the signal is going. You know, radio...

      All trends indicate a general move towards authoritarianism the world wide. Only technology can protect us from majority opinion in that direction.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    9. Re:End-to-end encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      They can then just come knocking and ask for the keys. Already before this legislation they could imprison (indefinitely?) the one who refuses to give their keys on request.

    10. Re:End-to-end encryption by Place+a+name+here · · Score: 2

      Pluggable transports to the rescue.

    11. Re:End-to-end encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Then you go to jail for not using approved encryption. Even if all you do is send your grocery list to your wife.

    12. Re:End-to-end encryption by PPH · · Score: 1

      They can then just come knocking and ask for the keys.

      At least I'll know exactly when that particular communications channel becomes insecure.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    13. Re:End-to-end encryption by fnj · · Score: 1

      No, you miss the point utterly. Steganography HIDES the data so the bastards won't know it is there. You still encrypt the data, though.

    14. Re:End-to-end encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet they never thought of that! Brilliant! /s

    15. Re:End-to-end encryption by johanw · · Score: 1

      Patrick Volkerding and Linus Thorvalds probably won't cooperate.

    16. Re:End-to-end encryption by johanw · · Score: 4, Informative

      That may work in a pgp-like setup but is completely useless when dealing with perfect forward secrecy like Signal uses. I don't HAVE the key for the past messages anymore, and if I deleted the messages NOONE can decrypt them anymore.

    17. Re:End-to-end encryption by lgw · · Score: 1

      No, he's right. Steganography attempts to hide, but it doesn't do it well. TOR has been trying for years to sneak traffic through the great firewall, but it's a losing battle, and China has mostly won at this point. There always seems to be a statistical difference between hidden data and the normal data you're trying to hide in.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    18. Re:End-to-end encryption by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Steganography HIDES the data so the bastards won't know it is there.

      That's kinda what "security through obscurity" is, like hiding the key (to the first door) under the doormat.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    19. Re:End-to-end encryption by ColMstrd · · Score: 1

      The Chinese system (and now the UK's) does not overly concern itself with ensuring every possible route through the Great Firewall is blocked--after all, geniuses gonna be ingenious. It merely suffices that the overwhelming majority cannot do this easily, and the technically adept live in fear of the consequences of their clearly pre-meditated actions. The censorship, and the chilling effect, is in the general drag; no need to close down every last loophole.
      If John Allsup is right above, all that is required to get around this is "a LAMP stack somewhere on the internet" and some code. What percentage of the population are capable of actually doing this in practice? Taking say, the desktop share of Linux/BSD as a proxy for this, which is probably an overestimate, given the ease of installation of modern distros, that's fewer 3% of all internet users. A repressible minority? The UK government evidently thinks so.

      --
      You can never eat too much, only cycle too little.
    20. Re:End-to-end encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and they do have your cell phone comms. unless you're using voip over a vpn...and in that case, best hope your voip company is in a place they can't get to.

    21. Re:End-to-end encryption by lgw · · Score: 1

      If you look at the math of it, it's not clean that steganography can actually work securely; rather, it can increase the difficulty of detecting your signal.

      The lower the proportional bandwidth of your hidden signal to the carrier, the more work it will take someone to spot that. But if you're in a totalitarian state, and so you have to be right every time and the state only has to get lucky once, then it's not so reassuring.

      Plus, you have to have a believable reason for the carrier. You have to hide your traffic in some high-bandwidth stream that has a good reason to be there, and that can be hard or risky itself. If it's ever discovered that, say, the YouTube channel you're watching has steganograpic content, the fact that you've been watching it isn't hidden, so that's going to end in tears.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    22. Re:End-to-end encryption by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The use of working encryption will be something the GCHQ will find as all other messages resolve to plain text thanks to UK and US vendor cooperation.
      Junk US and UK encryption will be on most of the normal OS devices and systems.
      Most of the IM services are logged or the surrounding OS is full of trapdoors and backdoors.
      They will then look at the surrounding software and hardware to see what could log input. Remote code update for your UK telco approved phone.
      If its really bespoke some extra gov hardware for a motherboard, keyboard will capture any data entered before encryption.
      Some form of one time pad created away from the computer or telco device and a photo might work.
      The security services would know a message was sent, the origin and who got the message but privacy would be ok for a while :)

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    23. Re:End-to-end encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Steganography HIDES the data so the bastards won't know it is there.

      That's kinda what "security through obscurity" is, like hiding the key (to the first door) under the doormat.

      No, in steganography, the key would be the doormat.

    24. Re: End-to-end encryption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, they will. They will.

    25. Re: End-to-end encryption by Maritz · · Score: 2

      Oh, they won't. They won't.

      I don't give a fuck either way, but in terms of making a point, you've been refuted.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    26. Re:End-to-end encryption by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Credibility through cynicism? Nah. Sorry. Even the vapid smilie at the end doesn't help. Keyboard logging before encryption? lol.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    27. Re:End-to-end encryption by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Even other EU nations are trying for decryption :)
      From Germany
      https://netzpolitik.org/2016/p...
      Re "Keyboard logging before encryption? lol."
      The UK's Code of practice for the use of equipment interference by the security and intelligence agencies can be found at
      https://www.gov.uk/government/...
      Recall Bullrun, Edgehill https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      Revealed: how US and UK spy agencies defeat internet privacy and security (6 September 2013)
      https://www.theguardian.com/wo...

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    28. Re:End-to-end encryption by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      Steganography and "security through obscurity" aren't the same thing at all...

  8. Could be fun by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

    if some big tech companies would leave the U.K. market because of that. But of course it wouldn't go well with the shareholders. :D

    1. Re:Could be fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. Because companies abandoned China in droves because of their evil policies.

      Oh, wait. No their didn't. Every man and their dog wants to move in to the massively growing and profitable market of China.

      The UK is the same deal. It's a massive financial and tech hub, so companies aren't going anywhere.

      Though they ARE busy trying to wreck that with the Brexit.

    2. Re:Could be fun by JimMcc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Right. Because companies abandoned China in droves because of their evil policies.

      Oh, wait. No their didn't. Every man and their dog wants to move in to the massively growing and profitable market of China.

      The UK is the same deal. It's a massive financial and tech hub, so companies aren't going anywhere.

      Though they ARE busy trying to wreck that with the Brexit.

      The population of China is roughly 1.4 billion people. The population of England is 0.053 billion. England has 4% of the population of China. Tech companies care a lot more about the marketplace of China than they do about England.

      So that leaves the "massive financial and tech hub" you describe in England. How many financial companies are going to want to maintain, never mind expand, their presence in a country which is allowed to actively monitor their most secure communications? If I were CEO of a global financial company I would be very concerned about the backlash from my customers if my company were to remain in such a country.

    3. Re:Could be fun by Bender+Unit+22 · · Score: 1

      I know it's not going to happen. It was just wishful thinking.
      Apple should be leaving, but you know they are not going to. They will fold and then the lawmakers in the US sees that and they will have to give in at home as well.

    4. Re:Could be fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's the whole UK you need to consider, not just England, you geographically-challenged clod.
      But yes, AFAIK a not inconsiderable amount of the financial institutions HQ'd in London have made and are beginning to act on plans to leave the UK for (likely) Paris. The City of London (i.e. the tiny bit full of the worst of the wankers) is stuffed full of them and they're all going to bugger off, likely reducing property prices there and as any semblance of financial recovery in the UK is based on a property boom that couldn't be sustained for much longer anyway, it'll boot the UK into recession. Again. All because that plank Cameron wanted to appease the swivel-eyed loons in his party. And now the spineless fuck has swanned off.
      And you think you have trouble with President-Elect Tangerine?

    5. Re:Could be fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...I would be very concerned about the backlash from my customers if my company were to remain in such a country."

      I know it's not the US being discussed, but... I just don't see that happening. Just like in the states, most have very little idea about what the few get away with when it comes to laws and politics. Everyone over here is too busy hating races and genders (or rather, pointing their finger at everyone ELSE and saying they hate races and genders) to bother paying attention. And getting their news from Facebook. Their tailored news. Shit, man. I bet half the country has no idea about that bill, let alone the implications.

    6. Re:Could be fun by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Most of them won't, but the ones doing the largest business are quite likely to, and are quite likely to want to reduce their exposure at somebody else's cost.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    7. Re:Could be fun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      awwwwwww

    8. Re:Could be fun by johannesg · · Score: 1

      The GDP of China is 9.2 trillion USD. The GDP of the UK is 2.7 trillion USD. It's not all about warm bodies, you know...

    9. Re:Could be fun by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Every device in the UK would have a trap door or back door for the security services. Anyone interesting would register a few cheap junk UK devices and give them to family, boring friends and have them be interesting all day, everyday :) Recharge the batteries every night and be ready for a few road trips next day.
      Any mic that got activated would get hours of been in an empty parked car, a university lecture or work gossip every day, repetitive music or video game soundtracks. Fun for all the new translators expecting regional slang, meetings and gossip.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    10. Re:Could be fun by bankman · · Score: 1

      So that leaves the "massive financial and tech hub" you describe in England. How many financial companies are going to want to maintain, never mind expand, their presence in a country which is allowed to actively monitor their most secure communications? If I were CEO of a global financial company I would be very concerned about the backlash from my customers if my company were to remain in such a country.

      Not really a problem after Brexit. ;-)

      --
      I feel so sig.
    11. Re:Could be fun by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Don't forget to exaggerate.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  9. How will they know.... by mark-t · · Score: 1

    ... the difference between innocent content and encrypted content that uses steganography to appear innocent?

    1. Re:How will they know.... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Any US or UK brand will help so any tame OS, telco brand encryption will revert to plain text.
      If it does not revert as expected someone has found, been give or feels the need to use real crypto and its time to access their computer, device and capture keystrokes.
      If that fails, get a logger into the keyboard or telco device as hardware or an upgrade.
      Any new device ordered online and been delivered is open to security service upgrades during shipment.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  10. UK import grade cryptography by sinij · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This will lead to "UK import grade cryptography", where the rest of the world will have security, and UK will have back doors they wanted so badly. Plus, thanks to Brexit it isn't like they are that big of a market.

    Here comes UK_1DES and Dual_UK_DRBG.

    1. Re:UK import grade cryptography by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      and china and russia and probably all of the islamic countries, plus lets not forget Best Korea (grin).

      there are a lot that feel its their right to snoop on other people's comms.

      personally, I think this is a right that all people have, to comm in private and with NO one spying. period. full stop. ends never justifies this. I know I'm extreme on this but better this extreme than middle or moderate on the other way.

      I used to travel to the UK regularly. I have not been in well over 15 years and have no plans to ever visit the UK again. sad, as it was a nice place, once (at least to a visitor). now, I'd avoid going there unless 100% necessary. and so far, no travel has ever come up to be 100% necessary.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:UK import grade cryptography by Archtech · · Score: 2

      I used to travel to the UK regularly. I have not been in well over 15 years and have no plans to ever visit the UK again. sad, as it was a nice place, once (at least to a visitor). now, I'd avoid going there unless 100% necessary. and so far, no travel has ever come up to be 100% necessary.

      That's funny - in a sad way - because I live in Britain and I feel exactly the same way about going to the USA. In the 1930s my parents - both teachers of French and German - used to visit Germany regularly every summer. I'm not as brave as they were - or perhaps I have benefit of hindsight.

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    3. Re:UK import grade cryptography by product_bucket · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's already here: Enter the CESG's very own MIKEY SAKKE: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/04/gchq_voice_encryption/

      UK Government-approved(TM) encryption. The backdoor isn't a backdoor, because the Gov says it isn't.

      Here https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/articles/development-mikey-sakke is the take from the National Cyber Security Centre.

    4. Re:UK import grade cryptography by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just use ROT13. What's the bloody point of using breakable encryption?

  11. Of course by 101percent · · Score: 2

    It's gonna be perfectly legal for Amazon to sell you that DRM encrypted book that you cannot decrypt.

    1. Re:Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You mean like Apple DRM that locks you out of your legal audio library after an OS update until you authenticate yourself again via apple.com? How about Steam DRM, Sony DRM, Microsoft DRM, Adobe DRM, Oracle DRM, IBM DRM? Fsckwit. Let's add Samsung, LG and Sony HDTVs that call home as soon as you turn them on and disable network functionality when the mothership cannot be contacted. And you're worried about a trivial DRM in text files that has been breakable for years? Dumbass.

      Circumventing DRM is illegal and has been since the 90s - all hail the USA and their mighty dollar that tells lapdog countries like those in Europe what laws they have to implements.

    2. Re: Of course by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're getting upset at the wrong cowpoke, hombre.

    3. Re:Of course by 101percent · · Score: 1

      Upvoting Ad hominem AC. Nice slashdot.

  12. Redundant verbiage excised by Archtech · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "At the end of the day, will the U.K. security services be able to read your email, your messages, your posts and private tweets, and your communications if they believe you pose a threat to national security? Yes, they will".

    At the end of the day, will the U.K. security services be able to read your email, your messages, your posts and private tweets, and your communications if they feel like it? Yes, they will.

    FTFY.

    --
    I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    1. Re:Redundant verbiage excised by fnj · · Score: 1

      Dear UK jackboots: eojhbfgyuhiojopdopfwdfdiodhidoidfuoisdfpoiifdfoddnvdj

      Maybe that means "fuck you, come and get me fuckers".

  13. And yet once again, they'll learn. by laughingcoyote · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You can't put a back door in something, and only have certain people able to walk through it. If there's a vulnerability in the encryption that can be used to crack it by the service provider, someone else can do the same.

    If this were implemented in the UK, it would totally kill Web commerce there. Who's going to put financial details across the Internet when it's as good as sent unencrypted? And if actual encryption is permitted for that purpose, well, then it can be used for any other purpose too.

    I don't know why it's so difficult to understand. If you deliberately make something insecure, then it is, by definition, insecure. If it's designed to be secure, then even the designer can't break in, because if they can, someone else could do the same.

    --
    To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
    1. Re:And yet once again, they'll learn. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You can guarantee the industry will respond by pushing the blame onto customers as far and as fast as possible. Once you've got a security weakness in there that you *cannot legally fix* there's basically no other way for companies to respond. Sure, mandate that we all have to make a copy of our keys and leave them with the gubmint - I can guarantee they'll refuse to be held responsible when China or Russia steals ALL of them. That's your problem.

      Fuck it, just take all the security off and we can laugh as the whole UK economy goes down in a fireball.
      I hope these politicians are moving their finances off-shore because they won't be able to live in the world they're creating.

    2. Re:And yet once again, they'll learn. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      99.9% of the idiots out there will keep sending their credit card infos, even in plain text. They don't understand the problem or don't care. Why do you think http is still being used instead of https?

  14. So, in short... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...we're fucked.

    Strong encryption puts the tiniest grain of autonomy and economic power in the hands of the common folk. Such an egregious abomination against propriety will never be tolerated!

  15. It is getting worse everywhere. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The two options left are to emigrate to a country that understands the dangers of compromising cryptography and personal rights, or create a country that will, through legal or extralegal means.

    The opportunities to do either are dwindling with every day. The US for instance now requires thousands of dollars in fees to even have the opportunity to renounce your citizenship, and I imagine other countries will soon follow America's Shining Example(TM) and find new ways to keep their citizens from leaving while rent seeking the ones with the sense and means to.

    Captcha was 'cudgels'. Likely some bloke in a bowler's hat, eh?

    1. Re:It is getting worse everywhere. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The phrase "home of the free..." turns evermore ironic, but I find it less and less amusing. This historical parallells readily availabel are sinister.

    2. Re:It is getting worse everywhere. by fnj · · Score: 1

      But it is very very difficult to win permanent residence in Switzerland - let alone citizenship. And the cost of living is exceedingly high.

    3. Re:It is getting worse everywhere. by anarcobra · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is a third option.
      Move to a third world country where the government doesn't have the resources to waste on this kind of shit.

    4. Re: It is getting worse everywhere. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Switzerland caved in on banking secrecy which they held as "non-negotiable". Nowhere is safe.

    5. Re:It is getting worse everywhere. by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      There is a third option.
      Move to a third world country where the government doesn't have the resources to waste on this kind of shit.

      The problem is third world countries tend to be stomping grounds for the 1st and 2nd world countries.

  16. It seems somebody wants to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    make UK great again!

  17. Welcome to China by Nocturrne · · Score: 1

    The US and UK are now just copying China. They've seen how people will just accept it and let them do anything they want. Bunch of sheep... The only good thing I see is this will push us even more to create tougher encryption and anonymity tools. Encrypt everything, encrypt it now.

    1. Re:Welcome to China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      I love Signal. The desktop/mobile platform is easy enough to get most of my friends on it, even non techies. However, I still have plenty of friends who say "I'm not a criminal, I don't need encryption" ... I have failed to convince them otherwise. Also, Signal is easier than encrypted email, just wish e2e email was easier.

    2. Re:Welcome to China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is easy enough to get most of my friends on it

      I have a *lot* of trouble getting them to understand why we need to actually do the key verification though. And why they should be concerned when it tells them that someone's identity has changed. I've seen it a few times as people replace their phones. It turns out they don't tend to restore from backup into their new phone. They just log into spygle and let the phone download their address book before they're using it again.

      You can't win. I don't want to have anything to do with screwgle or crapples's servers, but most of the numpties I know think the convenience trumps my right to privacy and they dump everything into those services.

  18. What are the implications on encryption? by serutan · · Score: 2

    Does this law mean a UK user could get thrown in jail for using an encryption scheme for which the government has no backdoor access?

    1. Re:What are the implications on encryption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Does this law mean a UK user could get thrown in jail for using an encryption scheme for which the government has no backdoor access?

      Yes, section 49 of part III of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers act compels the operator of said encryption to hand over the keys or face prison.

    2. Re:What are the implications on encryption? by HiThere · · Score: 2

      Anonymously send someone some random binary data. Prosecution win.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    3. Re: What are the implications on encryption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hithere,

      You have been activated.
      ###
      $)$(heufltni?%":93)%(%92-ndirjfuwhdo)193):(&85\qnb)#($84?:0jbeoxnrjxp($)%)%9%)
      ###

      That is all. Allah acknar bin ladabomben!

    4. Re:What are the implications on encryption? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      From a big brand, telco, US OS, consumer product or service who wants to sell int he UK everything will have to revert to plain text, voice or other useful data as sold.
      If the app is secure, the junk OS that it works on will capture what is needed.
      The best tool the security services have is tending apps that are offered as free, secure and have huge amounts of global users built on junk crypto.
      Its hard work to sell against free and to get other users using bespoke working secure solutions.
      Any for sale encryption scheme will face "free" junk apps that everyone wants and that offer the security services a backdoor.
      If the app is free and has really great crypto that works, expect a lot of fake stories about developer tension in the project until the best crypto staff move to other tame projects or are replaced by people with less skills or who are informants. The next upgrade is then junk or tame.
      Front companies offering free crypto apps with translation, languages are also used to out pace any emerging secure apps and have glowing crypto support and reviews.
      Over a few years most users globally are trusting junk crypto, front companies with security service staff or projects with few staff able to secure crypto over the project.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re: What are the implications on encryption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's perl isn't it?

    6. Re: What are the implications on encryption? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I don't think doing it in public, where others are known to be able to access it, counts. But that's the general idea.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    7. Re:What are the implications on encryption? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crypto expert, doesn't know what a paragraph tag is.

  19. Who wants to comply this way? by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Who wants to comply this way?

    1. The users password works
    2. There's a government backdoor password
    3. If if's a computer located in the .gov.uk domain, there's another backdoor password "admin"

    I'll take my Nobel Peace Prize to go, please...

  20. Bye bye, U.K. tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, that's the end of UK companies providing encryption.

  21. Really means by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... comms providers ...

    Does this mean the network stack in an operating system? Can the existence of a communication service be leveraged into installing key-loggers, screen grabbers or RAM grabbers.

    ... removing "electronic protection" on encrypted communications ...

    This might be aimed more at the "decrypt this phone" order than the "give us universal decryption" order that occurred with the San Bernardino shooter. Which is small comfort, since the manufacturer must destroy the user's privacy in either case.

    ... they are willing to walk away from the U.K. market. ...

    Wrong question: How can they stop that foreign company from putting back-doors into the UK government? That problem has always existed but demanding they install back-doors empowers a foreign company to sell the same insecure equipment to the government. Can the UK government walk away from their own legacy systems?

  22. "introduces a minor choke-point" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No it doesn't she was the home secretary that tried to push this through, failed, got promoted as the pro-brexit leader even though she wasn't pro-brexit, and now forces through the whole thing now she has the whiphand.

    Oh you mean a choke-point in the form of a jackboot on the throat of the people. Yup your right.

  23. Learning Opportunity by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 1

    For the rest of the World anyway.

    Let the UK implement their silly backdoor idea and just sit back and wait.

    If a decade goes by without the whole thing being compromised it would impress me.

    See how much it costs them to clean up that mess after someone exploits their newly implemented idea.

    A master key is very convenient, but very insecure. Both digitally and in its original form, the common door lock.

    Though, when I needed to bypass such things ( door locks ) I certainly appreciated it when they made my job that much easier.

  24. I migrated for freedom and it's the only fix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sadly the governments of the world are heading in an non-democratic direction and the masses are gobbling it up. If you want freedom, liberty, security you're not going to be able to live just anywhere. You are going to have to move. There is no other solution that'll work.

    Jason Sorens realized this way back in 2001. He realized the only way that we'll ever be able to secure some level of freedom moving forward is if enough people moved to a prosperous region for the pursuit of it. His essay got a lot of people interested in the idea, and from that the Free State Project was started. Today the Free State Project has attracted 20,000 participants and about 10% have moved already. This past March the migration officially started and we're seeing lots of new movers to New Hampshire as a result.

    We have a lot of people in our community here in New Hampshire who are working on technological hacks to work around many of these sorts of bad laws. ThinkPenguin, Inc which was focused on technological freedom moved to New Hampshire this past March for example. They've been working on and sponsoring a project and standard called EOMA68. EOMA68 is a modular computing standard that is designed to make it easy and less costly to design freedom-respecting computing devices like laptops, tablets, cameras, and cell phones. When users have control over their devices the government and corporations don't.

    From Silk Road-like projects to BitCoins there are projects based out of New Hampshire to decentralize market places (fixes Tor/Silk Road related issues), ride sharing (ie decentralized Uber), decentralized 'policing' (non-emergency or minor emergencies thus far really via cell phone apps), to move the control of currency from the hands of government to the hands of the people (we have lots of BitCoin start-ups), per capita, Keene has more bitcoin-friendly businesses than does San Francisco, the supposed #1 place for BitCoin acceptance.

    Real principled libertarians don't sacrifice freedom for the sake of security. We understand that life involves risks and that eliminating all risk is a threat to democracy. We don't believe in the use of violence, fraud, theft, or coercion to achieve political or social goals. The government should be minimal if it exists at all. There should be no boarder guards or taxes (if we can't eliminate we should at least minimize to whatever extant its currently feasible). One (board guards) depends on the later (taxes) and both depend on the use of force against peaceful people. We are not pacifists mind you. We do believe in the use of violence for self-defence to whatever extent it is necessary. We believe in the right to travel without government permission slips (drivers licenses) utilizing whatever the common mode of transport of the day is (right to travel is something that was undermined, but is in the constitution).

    We the people should not be made dependent on government assistance. Rather we should say no to taxes and all social programs in all forms rather than support inefficient and unethical wealth redistribution programs. These programs depends on the use of coercion, theft, and violence to enforce. When people are not coerced into paying vehicular registration (a form of tax), sales taxes, property taxes, income taxes, drivers licenses, business licenses, self-employment taxes, employee taxes (your income is taxed more than you think- the government takes 15% from you, but the business is also forced to pay another 15% for employing you), import tariffs, and more.

    The majority could stand on their own two feet without the assistance of others if only the government stopped stealing. Those that remain in poverty can be easily supported by the charity of others (at one time people donated voluntarily 10% of their income to charity). Sadly the people have been intimidated and scared into socialism that has caused more harm than good. They add "rights" that then violate other people's rights. We will end up like Cuba, Venezuela, Russia, and much of Europe if w

  25. While they're at it... by rantrantrant · · Score: 1

    ...why don't they mandate that nobody is allowed locks on their back doors? We want the police to be able to sneak in and check up on us in case we're criminals, peodophiles, or terrorists, don't we?

  26. Bye bye businesses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess the UK decided that they are generously giving their businesses to the EU. Forget about tech companies, the inability to keep their confidential secure will scare away many more

  27. Technically impossible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Everyone who wants encryption will always have it. Even if you were to ban general purpose computers small children could easily learn to encrypt and decrypt OTP with pencil and paper.

    Those who want to communicate in secret retain that capability no matter what as they have been able to do since the beginning of civilization.

    These laws are exclusively about mass surveillance. Limits to government power isn't just because people don't want to be fucked with. Fundamentally the most compelling reason limits are essential is to protect government from itself.

  28. Legal responsibility: Who bears the cost of fraud? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ok, Microsoft, several big banks, and some comms gear makers add more back doors to their products because of the UK Buggery Division.
    Some bad person uses said backdoors and siphons 100 Million quid out to Russia via the Caymans. Who pays?
    1) Govt Ex Gratia payment
    2) British insurance company
    3) Depositors ?
    4) Software company under consumer rights?
    5) Shareholders (Who rely on a due process annual report - that security is sound - not rooted)
    6) Do security professionals get told to shut up - and become toadies?

    Suddenly the UK does not look attractive.

  29. One of the issues of this law by cosmin_c · · Score: 2

    ... is that people who adopted it don't understand really how things work. The moment one installs a backdoor into a program, that can be found and accessed by anyone. And usually the people looking for those are either working for security companies (case in which it isn't that much of a problem, provided those people's ethics are intact) or not - and it's the latter that carries some issues with it.

    I can understand the concern for security, however this exposes everybody, not only people with malicious intent, and it can have effects that ripple beyond getting law enforcement new tools. It can put everybody's data at risk and this means everybody, from large corporations who are using backdoored software to individuals trying to protect their naughty (or not) private pictures.

    I suppose it all boils down to stopping usage of the cloud, storing everything locally with drawer HD and/or optical medium backups, middle fingering iCloud, Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive and so on. Losing convenience over gaining safety and security is one way of dealing with the whole issue.

    As for browsing histories and what not, I don't really think people who wish to do harm are googling incriminating stuff or accessing suspect websites, so it's all looking rather pointless. Then again, people give up their data rather easily e.g. to Google for convenience, so the issue lies with educating people. I fear though that when it will become apparent to everybody, it will be too late. People don't realise it now, in the 11th hour, albeit there are strong warnings out there - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  30. The Solution Is Cost by stoicio · · Score: 1

    By always encoding small messages into very large bundles it forces them to hire more people to check manually.
    That creates jobs, slows down their progress, increases errors, and fills up their storage.

    They'll just get tired and go away after awhile.
     

  31. Re:Used to be men by Maritz · · Score: 1

    Lovely poem. Think I saw that written on the wall of a public toilet. In shit. It was spelled better than you though.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  32. Today / Tomorrow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Today's backdoor - tomorrow's downgrade attack.