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Linux Mint 18.1 'Serena' BETA Ubuntu-based Operating System Now Available For Download (betanews.com)

BrianFagioli shares his story on Beta News: Feeling fatigued by Windows 10 and its constant updates and privacy concerns? Can't afford one of those beautiful new MacBook Pro laptops? Don't forget, Linux-based desktop operating systems are just a free download away, folks!

If you do decide to jump on the open source bandwagon, a good place to start is Linux Mint. Both the Mate and Cinnamon desktop environments should prove familiar to Windows converts, and since it is based on Ubuntu, there is a ton of compatible packages. Today, the first beta of Linux Mint 18.1 'Serena' becomes available for download.

Here's the release notes for both Cinammon and MATE.

15 of 137 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Visual Studio C++ equivalent? by lgw · · Score: 3, Informative

    I develop C++ applications mainly for Linux. I use Visual C++ and Xcode (I got accustomed to it after some time) to develop, then I log on Linux to "port" the code with vi, GCC, etc, and add Linux specific features.

    Is there a decent GUI for developing on Linux now?

    You can use VS on a Windows machine to build/debug on Linux now. You can also run a light version, "VS Code," natively on Linux - it's free and open source, but I don't know how full-featured it is.

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    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  2. Think of the target audience by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you are on Slashdot and haven't switched to Linux by now, then it seems extremely unlikely that you ever will.

    I hope you all enjoy whatever OS you happen to be using today.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:Think of the target audience by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 5, Funny

      My mouse doesn't feel right on Linux, I would switch if it weren't for that.

  3. Ubuntu makes to much decisions for me... by xonen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    After many years of Ubuntu use as primary desktop, the thing that drove me away was ending the support for the closed source AMD video drivers.

    Someone decided that the open source drivers were 'good enough'. Well, they are not, at least for what i was doing. And the choice to use the drivers as released by AMD was removed, and doing so manually anything but trivial, as in, you'd have more luck on an arch based distro.

    Imho, Ubuntu, and all derivatives like Mint, suddenly alienate half their user base with that decision. And if this wasn't an online forum i'd use stronger wordings for that.

    Also, i just need to get work done. And most of the stuff i do is reasonable platform-agnostic but expects reasonable 3D performance. So, i'm back to windows 10 which serves my need, ironically has Ubuntu user land built in these days, and Linux will have to wait until i upgrade my graphics to nVidia, or when i can be bothered to try another distro, or when open source graphics drivers are really of comparable quality, whichever come first.

    * Just 2 cents from a frustrated ex-Ubuntu&Mint user on the desktop. *

    --
    A glitch a day keeps the bugs away.
    1. Re:Ubuntu makes to much decisions for me... by Ramze · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm not sure I follow. Ubuntu will let you install the proprietary drivers and will let you file bug reports for issues, but if the close-sourced driver is found to be the culprit, they'll refer you to AMD... because AMD is the only one with the source code, and thus the only ones able to help you fix the bug. That's about as much support as one could ask for.

      The open source drivers are the default install, but you certainly can replace them with the proprietary closed source drivers.

      Here's the How To from Ubuntu for the most recent 16.04 LTS:
      https://help.ubuntu.com/commun...

      As for the open vs closed source quality, recent benchmarks show that the MESA 13 drivers are pretty close to the closed source ones for most chipsets, but it's still a tiny bit high on the latency. I doubt you'll ever get parity until/unless AMD phased out the closed source drivers by fully opening the source code. There's probably some things in there they license and/or don't care to share with competitors, though.

    2. Re:Ubuntu makes to much decisions for me... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      After many years of Ubuntu use as primary desktop, the thing that drove me away was ending the support for the closed source AMD video drivers.

      What does this have to do with Ubuntu? AMD ended their support.

      Someone decided that the open source drivers were 'good enough'. Well, they are not, at least for what i was doing.

      Yep, that "someone" was AMD. They apparently decided to focus more on a new Linux driver project, as noted in the posts from AMD folks quoted in the above link. Ubuntu isn't able to offer "support" for a closed-source driver that apparently breaks with the newer versions of Xorg. (I'd note that AMD had months to prepare before the new version of Ubuntu upgraded to the newer version of Xorg, and it's been a year or more and AMD hasn't updated their driver.)

      And the choice to use the drivers as released by AMD was removed

      Because it might break your system.

      Imho, Ubuntu, and all derivatives like Mint, suddenly alienate half their user base with that decision.

      How was it Ubuntu's fault (let alone Mint's, who didn't do anything here) that AMD stopped updating their drivers for Linux? Ubuntu and its derivatives aren't the only distros that this created problems with -- anyone who is using a version of Xorg released in the past year will have the same problem. And since Xorg is standard across most Linux distros, this truly has nothing to do with Ubuntu (or Mint) per se.

      So, i'm back to windows 10 which serves my need

      Yep -- AMD decided to update their drivers for the latest Windows version. Ubuntu can't do so, because they don't have the source code.

      Why are you angry at Ubuntu when the people who stopped the support are AMD?

      I don't mean to sound insulting, but you do understand what the implications of "closed-source driver" are, right? Ubuntu would likely be happy to provide support and updates if they had the source code... but they don't, and AMD won't release it.

    3. Re:Ubuntu makes to much decisions for me... by xonen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And why, as end-user, do i care this? I need something that works. A newer version of xorg was apparently more important to drivers compatibility for the package maintainers. For me as user it was the other way around. And it is not trivially possible with Ubuntu to use an older version of xorg.

      To elaborate on that: somewhere along the road the xorg developers decided to break something. How hard is it to design something and keep it (forward) compatible? Apparently for xorg very hard. I totally am ready to believe they had their reasons to do so, but you simply cannot expect all other involved developers to run behind them, within months, if they make make a change breaking stuff, totally ignoring the significant amount of testing the AMD developers would have to do. And surely the AMD developers still get the blame simply because they are 'closed source'.

      From an idealistic stance of view, you are totally right. In an ideal world those drivers would be open source. From a practical stance of view, developers all over the world, both open and closed source, are hands tied down on license or agreements. And users just want something that works, not necessarily the latest greatest shiniest.

      In case of Ubuntu 16.04 the AMD user is left in the cold, no matter who to blame. And this is why people who say 'Linux will never be ready for the desktop' are proven right. I did, and do, use and love Linux but in all fairness it has been a constant struggle, swimming upstream, because design decisions like those are not made from a user stance of view, and because i do not want to dedicate my life to the OS running on my computer. I just want to use my computer.

      --
      A glitch a day keeps the bugs away.
    4. Re:Ubuntu makes to much decisions for me... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      And why, as end-user, do i care this? I need something that works.

      I completely understand your frustration. I was only pointing out that it may be misdirected.

      A newer version of xorg was apparently more important to drivers compatibility for the package maintainers.

      Probably because this was an LTS release. Ubuntu was forced to make a call about whether to include a newer, better-featured version of Xorg or support an older one for the next 5 years.

      To elaborate on that: somewhere along the road the xorg developers decided to break something. How hard is it to design something and keep it (forward) compatible? Apparently for xorg very hard. I totally am ready to believe they had their reasons to do so, but you simply cannot expect all other involved developers to run behind them, within months, if they make make a change breaking stuff, totally ignoring the significant amount of testing the AMD developers would have to do.

      Do you think other hardware companies make such excuses when Microsoft releases the next Windows version and stuff breaks? No, they are happy to provide support for their own devices. Also, the "months" thing is disingenuous -- the prospective changes to Xorg were likely known before this: that's just the date after the final version of Xorg was RELEASED.

      But just take a second and consider what the implications of your proposal are. You complain that the developers for hardware should not be required to support their own products for some OSes because it's excessive work, but you have no problem asking the Canonical developers to spend the next 5 years supporting a deprecated version of Xorg on an LTS release, just over a video driver that will likely be obsolete in a year or two?

      I'm absolutely sure that the Canonical developers didn't want this stuff to break, but they had to make a call on providing the best service for their product overall for the next 5 years.

      In case of Ubuntu 16.04 the AMD user is left in the cold, no matter who to blame.

      Okay, I might agree, but you clearly have strong feelings about who to blame.

      And this is why people who say 'Linux will never be ready for the desktop' are proven right.

      What you have proven is that developers for closed-source drivers are unwilling to provide the same resources for supporting Linux as they are for Windows. This fact was and is well-known. Linux does the best it can at spending HUGE amounts of trying to reverse engineer software to provide support for this kind of hardware, because the closed-source folks don't share their info.

      If Linux could spend all the time they put into developing and maintaining reverse engineered drivers into actually MAINTAINING decent drivers based on specs direct from the manufacturers, Linux would likely have significantly better hardware support than Windows.

    5. Re:Ubuntu makes to much decisions for me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And the solution was to wait on 14.04 until the new driver become available from AMD, being closed source it is up to them to do it...

      cough, ohh wait, what's this?

      http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/AMD-Radeon-GPU-PRO-Linux-Beta-Driver%E2%80%93Release-Notes.aspx

      Also fully supported in 16.10

  4. Re:Warning by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Informative

    speak for yourself but no one else. My laptop runs Linux Mint 17.3, all devices work because it takes 5 minutes of research to find laptops that will work. I don't do games. OpenShot and gimp are good enough media apps for me, vlc for viewing. SageMath works well, it was made for Linux. Spreadsheets with LIbreOffice are fine.

  5. Re:Unfortunate way to sell Linux on the desktop by chipschap · · Score: 2

    I've noticed a trend, not only on Slashdot but elsewhere, that in trying to get people to use desktop Linux distros a lot of the advocacy is based on what Windows (specifically Windows 10) is doing in terms of telemetry, reduction of control over the operating system and what not, and basically elements of Windows, and NOT about how Linux is better in specific ways.

    That's an interesting point, and much of the anti-Linux pro-Windows marketing targets that very point, by emphasizing what Windows can do which Linux cannot. (It will inevitably be vertical apps, high-end gaming, high-end features in things like PhotoShop, etc.)

    Of course, the real draw (for many of us) with Linux is the concept free as in beer and especially free as in freedom. And with Windows 10 becoming the spyware of the millenium, there are people looking for alternatives. So a certain amount of what is, as you state, negative marketing, seems justified.

    But you're right, it's not sufficient in and of itself. Users have to be able to do whatever it is they need to do. Linux has come a very long way in that regard, to the point at which in my own work I need Windows for ---- absolutely nothing at all. Those of us who are Linux fans need to promote that angle.

    For instance, I always cite the use case of my wife, who uses the Linux installation I set up for her, and neither knows nor cares what OS she's using --- she can do email, Facebook, photos, documents, on-line games, etc. and that's all that matters to her. I suppose I should be more forward in promoting my own use case, namely writing and publishing and doing related analysis.

    Linux has a strong case: a lot of functionality, end-user ease of use easily on a par with Windows, and the aforemention Very Big Deal: free as in freedom and beer.

  6. Re:Why is BETA in caps? by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 2

    I mean seriously EditorDavid, do you think beta is an acronym?

    Um, the Mint team called it BETA (in CAPS) on their site, as they usually do, so you could maybe lay off of EditorDavid this time. I've run Mint betas before without problems, but I'm glad they make it clear when a release on their main page is indeed a beta.

    --
    This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
  7. Re:I don't get it. by uvajed_ekil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Every other day, there seems to be a new "operating system" released, always in "beta" (and never leaving that stage)... but it's just a Linux distribution! It's just a bunch of standard junkware slapped together! I don't understand this obsession with making new Linux distros when there already are a billion of them.

    If you want to sound crotchety and whiny, that's up to you. But you are completely wrong here, since Mint has been around for about ten years and is an excellent operating system with a great team and professional lead developer, not "junkware slapped together." I don't agree with one of the bigoted political stances Mint head Clem has taken in the past but I've been running it for 9 years and fully understand why it is one of the most popular and respected distros (and he's kept quiet about his hate for Israel in recent years). You can be lazy and let MS run your computer and data if you like, but that doesn't mean there aren't 10-20 really good Linux distros out there completely ready for prime time, beta or otherwise.

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    This is a hacked account, for which the owner can not be held responsible.
  8. Re:Warning by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

    I use Mint on a 5 year old laptop and it's fine. It's fast, everything works, and I see no reason whatsoever to spend $800 on a Macbook or a new Windows laptop.

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    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  9. Linux Mint, Anecdotal Evidence by hughbar · · Score: 2

    I've used Linux Mint as a desktop for about four years. I still have one Windows 7 system because of Pro Tools, waiting for the day when I can swap to Linux for 'music'. Recently I've introduced my ex (in another country, support more difficult) and a local friend to Mint. There was a little spike in support in the first couple of weeks and now nothing. I used to get several calls per week when they used Windows, so my 'upgrade' was somewhat self-interested.

    At the start of this, I needed convincing, quite happy now, not missing Windows at all. I think my desktop 'tank' is about 7/8 years old too. My feeling is, just try, create an extra guest login on one of your machines to show people, show don't tell.

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    On y va, qui mal y pense!