Slashdot Mirror


EFF: The Music Industry Shouldn't Be Able To Cut Off Your Internet Access (eff.org)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Electronic Frontier Foundation: No one should have to fear losing their internet connection because of unfounded accusations. But some rights holders want to use copyright law to force your Internet service provider (ISP) to cut off your access whenever they say so, and in a case the Washington Post called "the copyright case that should worry all Internet providers," they're hoping the courts will help them. We first wrote about this case -- BMG v. Cox Communications -- when it was filed back in 2014, and last month, EFF, Public Knowledge (PK), and the Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT) urged the Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit to overturn a ruling that ISP Cox Communications was liable for copyright infringement. EFF, PK and CDT advised the court to consider the importance of Internet access in daily life in determining when copyright law requires an ISP to cut off someone's Internet subscription. The case turns in part on a provision in copyright law that gives internet intermediaries a safe harbor -- legal protection against some copyright infringement lawsuits -- provided they follow certain procedures. Online platforms like Facebook and YouTube, along with other internet intermediaries, have to "reasonably implement" a policy for terminating "subscribers and account holders" that are "repeat infringers" in "appropriate circumstances." But given the importance of Internet access, the circumstances where it's appropriate to cut off a home Internet subscription entirely are few and far between. The law as written is flexible enough that providers can design and implement policies that make sense for the nature of their service and their subscribers' circumstances. A repeat infringer policy for the company that provides your link to the Internet as a whole should take into account the essential nature of internet access and the severe harm caused by disconnection. But music publisher BMG wants to use this provision to force ISPs to become tougher enforcers of copyright law. According to BMG, ISPs should be required both to forward rights holders' threatening demand letters to their subscribers and terminate a subscriber's Internet access whenever rights holders allege that person has repeatedly violated copyright law. A subscriber is a "repeat infringer" and subject to termination, they argue, whenever they say so. Cox's appeal of the ruling raises two very important issues: (1) Who should be considered a "repeat infringer" who should be cut off from the Internet, and (2) whether ISPs must either cede to rights holders' demands or monitor their subscribers' internet habits to avoid liability. Slashdot reader waspleg adds: Two landmark Supreme Court cases, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Studios Inc. v. Grokster, Ltd., and Sony Corp. of America v. Universal Studios made clear that if a service is capable of significant lawful uses, and the provider doesn't actively encourage users to commit copyright infringement, the provider shouldn't be held responsible when someone nonetheless uses the service unlawfully.

88 comments

  1. I can support them... by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As long as this is an equitable two-way street, I don't see a problem. If, the second time (which would make them a repeat offender) a "rights holder" misuses email to accuse someone falsely their own Internet service is cut off, this could work. Same with misusing the postal service.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:I can support them... by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      Welcome back to biblical ages, where your hand gets cut off if you use it to steal!

    2. Re:I can support them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      lets throw phone line access into this too.. two robocall or scam phone call complaints and no more phone for you, regardless of what fucking country you are in or how many vpn or voip or hacked zombie computers you route through.

    3. Re:I can support them... by Xenographic · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Hmm, I wonder how many copyright infringement lawsuits the big labels have faced? Could they be considered a "repeat infringer" based on those?

      If not, why does it apply to normal people who know little to nothing about copyright law, but not to sophisticated parties with many lawyers who reasonably should know their own business?

    4. Re:I can support them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So do your eyeballs get cut out if you watch a "pirated" movie? That's some grade-A Eye Scream material right there.

    5. Re:I can support them... by Z80a · · Score: 1

      One of the problems is that its too easy to falsify downloads from a certain IP address.
      If you get a system like this up and running, people WILL abuse it horribly.

    6. Re:I can support them... by Falos · · Score: 2

      No it won't, IPs reflect reality perfectly.

      This post sent from: Lorong Chuan, Lenovo

    7. Re:I can support them... by Z00L00K · · Score: 0

      Add postal service as well then. Sending junk mail - no postal service for 2 weeks, sending a copyright infringement VHS tape, no postal service for life.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    8. Re:I can support them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They already are, that is why you get cases where printers and dead people are accused of copyright infringement.
      The copyright holders know this and doesn't care. It costs them more to figure out if the accusation is reasonable than just going after everyone.
      If you want to know how it will work if you let them shut down internet access to people based on accusations, just look at how it works with Youtube.
      There are small artists that have gotten their channels shut down just because the RIAA just assumed that any published music is infringing somehow.

      RIAA needs to calm down and and the only way to force them to is to make sure that it hurts to throw baseless accusations around.

    9. Re:I can support them... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      I'm surprised Google accepts billions of take-down notices a year from companies that massively abuse that system too. After the 9000th time Sony Pictures tries to remove youtube.com from search results, why are they still getting automated notice processing rights?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    10. Re:I can support them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL What world do you live in that you think the same laws that apply to you should apply to our politicians and corporations?

    11. Re:I can support them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are not repeat offenders just because someone ACCUSES them!
      Due process, innocent until proven guilty, etc.

    12. Re:I can support them... by ScienceofSpock · · Score: 1

      They do it because that's the way the law was written. Either they obey the takedown notice and deal with the fallout after the fact, or they risk losing safe harbor.

    13. Re:I can support them... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They have banned a few companies who were abusing the system before. Seems like they do it when they have so much evidence that they feel any lawsuit would go their way.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  2. Life imitates art yet again by outlander · · Score: 2

    Shades of Cory Doctorow's Pirate Cinema.....

    --
    "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
  3. I call bullshit ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... because the Internet should be classified as a utility similar to electricity.

    No one's advocating termination of house power for a third offender.

    The music industry, in its current form, is a dying business model and knows full well these broad-reaching attempts to stop digital hemorrhages are just not going to work.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:I call bullshit ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The music industry, in its current form, is a dying business model and knows full well these broad-reaching attempts to stop digital hemorrhages are just not going to work.

      What about employment for US IT workers? Is that a dying business model as well?

    2. Re:I call bullshit ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, but we don't get laws that makes it possible to sue people for not giving us jobs.
      When a business model is dying you man up and move on.
      Turning back the clock doesn't work and trying only causes more problems.

    3. Re:I call bullshit ... by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      The music industry, in its current form, is a dying business model and knows full well these broad-reaching attempts to stop digital hemorrhages are just not going to work.

      And it's not going to go quietly into the night unfortunately. Record labels, MPAA/RIAA are just glorified middle men. They are no talent ass clowns that exploit creative people that are desperate to make a living doing what they love. They couldn't care less about art, music or culture, they just care about the money and that's evident in the massive amount of money spent on litigation. If there wasn't a significant amount of money involved here, this stuff would have disappeared a long time ago. It's really sad.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    4. Re:I call bullshit ... by Migraineman · · Score: 2

      Agreed. The ISPs should be considered "common carriers" and should have zero involvement with content.

      Further, how the hell would an ISP know *anything* about whether my activities are licensed or not. I work with a community theater that licenses shows, scripts and music all the time. For the duration of the contract I have with Tams-Whitmark, MTI, or whoever, I have legal access to the materials, including editing/modifying for our venue's needs. Many of these changes will be circulated via email or file sharing services, though not publicly. That won't stop my ISP from being involved in the transaction. They're not party to the contract, I am not going to involve them in the contract, and I sure as hell am not going to seek their permission to carry out normal activities.

    5. Re:I call bullshit ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Agree.

      The "massive amount of money" is the smoking gun.

      Music is a great source of revenue for the IP protection industry.

      Artists and labels need to rework their business architects to bypass the leeches.

      It will happen that way, too.

      For reference, we can scrutinize the rapid decline of the analog camera industry.

      Digitization has empowered the pedestrian photographer and that whole antiquated film camera landscape is pretty much scorched.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    6. Re:I call bullshit ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      I appreciate the view from your wheelhouse. It's an experience in which I am totally naive, and yet grok.

      I'm a retired IT guy.

      From my perspective, I question the forensics required to support termination of my connection.

      I can actually be downloading material illegally and not know it, even with my level of expertise. Pity the lay person.

      - I can be infected with malware that makes me a download relay.
      - Typically, people don't secure their WiFi. "Drive-by" hijack downloading is very popular.
      - A visitor to my home may have my permission to use WiFi and do evil things.
      - My kid(s) may be doing things behind my back.
      - I do know, for a fact, that employees routinely use business resources to pirate IP on a very large scale.

      Disconnecting the Internet is totally against the interests of the ISP, be they wired or wireless. Those that gain a Grinch reputation will suffer from avoidance.

      The IP hoarders should be forced to go directly after violators, using current law, and their own resources instead of enlisting the help of governments and common carriers.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    7. Re:I call bullshit ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The EFF shouldn't have pushed to allow the FCC to take over the internet. Now all we need is the right paid-off bureaucrat to allow shit like this to happen. All to solve the non-existent problem of net neutrality violations.

  4. Re:Agreed by RazorSharp · · Score: 2

    That was troll-tastic.

    --
    "From the depths of my skeptical and rationalist soul, I ask the Lord to protect me from California touchie-feeliedom."
  5. The eff is very right here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Its like saying someone can't own a mailbox because someone sent them an illegal package once. It is like saying someone has no right to talk, after hearing something. Copyright infringement is not an offense so awful to take away someone's human right to be on the Internet.

    1. Re:The eff is very right here by Falos · · Score: 1

      It actually reminds me of the people who live in the house at the geographical center of the USA, the zero-zero coordinates that some geoIP location DBs/trackers point towards (they shouldn't) when they actually got an LOL I DUNNO result.

      They put up a sign with THE DEVICE ISN'T HERE FUCK OFF explanations and such because law enforcement kept showing up.

      But hey the copyright mafiAA says it's totes here, so we're instantly authorized and indeed legally obligated to kick down the door and drag them out protesting. We don't even have to find the device, "totes" means "proof".

    2. Re:The eff is very right here by GuB-42 · · Score: 2

      Its like saying someone can't own a mailbox because someone sent them an illegal package once.

      No no no, it is a completely unfounded analogy. Let me fix it for you :

      Its like saying someone can't own a mailbox because someone sent them an illegal package twice.

      Apple to apples comparison.

  6. Accused, not convicted? Alarm bells ring!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Repeat offenders should be cut off but "accused"??? What about convicted!
    I worry that the music/film industry can have the power to just accuse someone and have their internet cut off with out independent proof to identify the particular offender.

    1. Re:Accused, not convicted? Alarm bells ring!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could not they get a court order now? I guess that must be too costly for them.

    2. Re:Accused, not convicted? Alarm bells ring!!! by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The "identify the particular offender" is going to get more interesting AC.
      With the amount of SJW hero groups now been allowed powers on different media and social media sites what will be the next net ban?
      As more monarchies, theocracies and cults fund US social media sites what other users could be removed?
      Blasphemy? Drawing or spreading a cartoon that is a gateway to atheism? Upsetting a monarch or cult? News about Communist party leaders wealth?
      Comment about illegal immigration? Pollution? A hospital that won't clean its wards or equipment? A state political leader wants revenge over comments?
      Social media staff who support certain political parties who lost an election but cant face reality who then want users removed from the net, not just their comments?
      Once one group, industry or section of the US gets banning powers, every US SWJ will want the same to make the net a safe space.
      Giving any group that kind of power will just make other SJW demand the same color of law account access.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Accused, not convicted? Alarm bells ring!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that's because a court order has a burden of proof that's higher than what the **AA has or is willing to provide.

  7. Voter suppression... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This could be considered a method of voter suppression because many voters use the internet for news and to investigate candidate positions.

    1. Re: Voter suppression... by Jesus+H+Rolle · · Score: 1

      This could be considered a method of /.er suppression because many /.ers use the internet for news and to investigate candidate positions.

  8. No downside for false/careless complaints by redelm · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are many problems with copyright enforcement, two of which is the disproportionate size of litigants and low cost of making a false complaint. There ought to be some liquidated damages like US$1000/day-blocked per 3Mbps in the event of an unsupported/unproven finding. Modest for the complainer, but sufficient to encourage vigorous defense and hence very careful prosecution.

    1. Re:No downside for false/careless complaints by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      The EU likes to use % of global revenue. It scales nicely and allows small companies to defend their copyrights without unreasonable risk, while still providing a strong punishment for large multinationals.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  9. Thank You So Much! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Thanks for not using the "P" word. Copyright infringers are exactly that. Visions of peg legs, eye patches, and hooks need not apply to this discourse.

  10. No, but your ISP can. by mark-t · · Score: 2

    And if your ISP wants to cozy up to the music industry and do whatever they want, then you might just have to find a different provider. It's your ISP that loses out if they lose you as a subscriber, so it's not in their best interests to alienate you without a pretty good reason.

    1. Re:No, but your ISP can. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I don't know what fantasy land you live in, but where I'm at there is a single real broadband provider. Lose access to them and you're stuck streaming from your cell phone @ $50/Gig.

    2. Re:No, but your ISP can. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Find a different provider"

      so... move to a new city then?

    3. Re:No, but your ISP can. by mark-t · · Score: 1
      My point is that barring a court order, it is actually up to your isp whether to terminate your access or not, and it generally isn't in your ISPs interest to lose you as a subscriber unless your usage is impacting other users.

      broadband access isn't an inalienable right, so there's little you can do if your ISP wants to be in bed with the music industry companies and do whatever they say, but in the end it's still not going to be beneficial to them if they start disconnecting lots of subscribers

    4. Re: No, but your ISP can. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Country*

      FTFY.

    5. Re:No, but your ISP can. by Migraineman · · Score: 1

      The ISPs in my area (and my previous area) cut deals with the local municipalities for geographic monopolies. This was done to "keep competing service providers from repeatedly digging up the streets" which was somehow billed as better for the end-user. Uh huh. I have one ISP I can contract with - the cable company (I'm too far for DSL, and have obstructed line-of-sight for satellite.) My only other option is dial-up over POTS, which would only serve for basic email functions.

      This is far from a competitive free-market situation for many of us.

  11. Already in the EU, hopefully soon in the US by Guybrush_T · · Score: 5, Informative

    The EU actually prevented the music industry from doing that in France, stating that having an internet access is a basic need. The hadopi law was therefore half dead on arrival.

    Let's hope the same happens in the US.

    1. Re:Already in the EU, hopefully soon in the US by JustNiz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Good luck with that. Big companies, especially the entertainment industry, already have the US government in their pockets.

    2. Re:Already in the EU, hopefully soon in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there is ample evidence that gov workers download stuff on the sly,
      so why don't a few of the government bureaus ( Senators and Representatives offices maybe? ) have this happen to them?
      Why not?
      It would be popcorn time to watch ths happen.
      And see the cure come to life....

    3. Re:Already in the EU, hopefully soon in the US by spikenerd · · Score: 1

      How exactly do you plan to pull that off? Do you plan to hack into the music industry's auto-accuse bots and modify them so they no longer check their immunity lists before sending out accusations? Do you plan to hack into Comcast and poison their key cache so they will think all accusations originated from the music industry? Or, do you plan to hack into the minds of Congressmen and change them to want to make a law that gives equal respect to accusations from random citizens and those from industries that have paid for the laws? None of those are going to be particularly easy to pull off, but I'd love to help if you've got a real plan.

    4. Re:Already in the EU, hopefully soon in the US by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The EU actually prevented the music industry from doing that in France, stating that having an internet access is a basic need.

      I'd say that a right "retained by the people" arises under the 9th Amendment for individuals in the USA - land of the free, home of the brave - to be at least as free as individuals in any other civilized country.

      France certainly qualifies as civilized.

      Hence, it follows that the 9th Amendment protects US citizens from abuse by the music industry. People must actually be given their day in court, and the court must rule against them, or the actions being taken by the legal professionals in the music industry are unethical practice of law, and illegal. To the extent that any law passed by Congress (such as the DMCA) conflicts with the Bill of Rights, the lessor law is rendered null and void - and all legal professionals have an individual responsibility to think about these issues before initiating legal action (think Nuremberg).

      All music industry legal professionals agreed to accept this when they gave their oaths to uphold the Bill of Rights as the highest law in the land.

      Similarly, music industry executives who violate this right are engaged in illegal conduct in violation of fundamental rights, making them liable for civil suit and criminal prosecution, and disqualifying them from holding any position of public trust or responsibility - including executive positions in any business operating in the USA.

  12. Unconstitutional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The DMCA is a law. A fairly shitty one, totally one-sided and in favor of corporations rather than the people. That's fine and dandy.

    But, how is it not Unconstitutional?

    Hmm, ISPs are supposed to disconnect you (deprive you of service, a tangible thing) without due process when you are accused, not found guilty or liable but merely accused, of Copyright infringement. That really seems like an illegal search and seizure, which violates the 4th amendment. The fact that it violates your rights by putting penalties on the service provider should bot be an issue, as you are a direct party to the action and are the one being deprived without due process.

    I'm not a lawyer, but this seems a bit more firm than the free speech arguments people keep trying to use to strike this down. Any wanna chime in (and give Cox's team a call if its right?)

    1. Re:Unconstitutional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      But, how is it not Unconstitutional?

      There are two reasons. First, all parties involved are private entities. Your ISP can choose to engage in or avoid doing business with whomever they want. The second is that the ISP isn't forced to cut off your access. They are given the option to do so in exchange for immunity against copyright infringement lawsuits.

      It's shady as hell, and the end result is exactly as designed. That's what we get for allowing our system of government to be purchased by the highest bidder.

    2. Re:Unconstitutional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lack of actual due process. If the ISP wants to cut you off one thing. If they are ordered to based on really bad claims that is another.

      The law is not unconstitutional in its intent only in its implementation.

    3. Re:Unconstitutional by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      ISP's are at best semi private company's with few exceptions they use a monopoly or close enough to count. If you free space optics or wifi ISP wants to sure but if they are getting access to utility poles rights of way or rf spectrum exclusively in an area they should be treated as a public utility.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    4. Re:Unconstitutional by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      And if the copyright holders starts to team up and buy all ISPs then it's going to be a tough time. Thought police anyone?

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    5. Re:Unconstitutional by silas_moeckel · · Score: 2

      A must provide access clause is realy not that hard for a dpuc or similar to include and enforce. There is a price to be paid for getting a monopoly and that needs to be part of it.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    6. Re:Unconstitutional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the only amendment that the majority political party cares about is the second.

    7. Re:Unconstitutional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The law isn't unconstitutional because the law doesn't require that anyone be cut off.

      A hosting company (which DMCA seems more written-for) would have three options: 1) continue hosting the alleged-infringing material and thereby accept liability if it really does turn out to infringe 2) cease the hosting, by any means available (it could be turning off a server, or deleting a file, or deleting a row in a database -- whatever) 3) forward the accusation (DMCA notice) and get a counter-notice from the the alleged infringer, and forward that to the accuser.

      With a network company, the law doesn't fit that so well, but analogies to all three of the above options exist. From the accused person's PoV, and also the ISP's PoV, these really are only rough analogies. But to the network outside, the analogy is very apt: content is being hosted somewhere in that black box of addresses called "Cox" and the accuser doesn't care if it's Cox's machine or the address of a NAT router behind which someone else's computer is hosting something. It all looks the same from outside. If you were a good-faith accuser, you would say it's Cox's fault until they pass the hot potato to someone else. "Tell me whom to sue, or else it's you."

      The second option, "cease the hosting" can only be done by severing the connection. Cox isn't going to break into your machine and delete files or remove a particular offending torrent from Deluge. But the law isn't requiring them to do that, so the law isn't unconstitutional (it's merely bad). They can also accept the liability, or forward the accusation and get the user to provide the counter-notice.

    8. Re:Unconstitutional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, all parties involved are private entities. Your ISP can choose to engage in or avoid doing business with whomever they want.

      Not true. No business in the USA (or in most states) has this freedom. Individuals, in the privacy of their homes, have this freedom, but businesses do not. The state and the public are free to place whatever restrictions they desire on the freedom of businesses to choose their customers - and many such restrictions exist. Living with such restrictions is part of the price of doing business. Businesses can not, for example, choose not to do business with members of a particular minority group.

  13. Idiots lacking nuance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The copyright holders want to use restriction to internet access as a club, instead of a surgical knife. Given the importance of the internet in daily life, especially given its increased importance and utility to the disabled and elderly (I'm a housebound disabled woman who uses the internet to do things like pay my bills, order grocery deliveries, and not go insane from a complete lack of social interaction), a sane response would be "if someone uses torrents to infringe copyright, block their access to torrents", "if someone uses Usenet to ...", etc etc. But these wankers of course could never accept any sanely measured response like this because these are the people who sue for ONE MILLION DOLLARS! for downloading/uploading a single mp3, and so of course they want the situation to be as disproportionately punitive as possible. Also, while I pay for media when I can (that being somewhat limited due to the low income which comes with being unable to work), even that which I can afford to pay for I generally also download an unDRMed (i.e. "pirated") version of because the various ways I need to use my media player of choice, VLC for the record, just to ensure things like access to subtitles i.e. "captions" in Americanese (even filthy "pirate" subtitles, a nice side effect of VLC also being choosing font style/size so subtitles are about half-by-height and a quarter-by-width the ABSURDLY HUGE FONT SIZE you find on DVDs and Blu-rays... yes, I use memetastic Impact-like fonts for that, except less ugly, so perhaps Trektastic LCARS-like is a better term), to ensure those subtitles have an offset of about 650ms after the relevant line begins (don't even ask me to get into the complex reasons why that breaks my brain less and increases accessibility, just trust it does), proper keyboard shortcuts for skipping back and forth a few seconds (cognitive issues sometimes make me need to repeat a line two or five times to get my brain to absorb it and I am not about to screw around with an imprecise and cumbersome cursor-based time bar) and various other ways in which I need to ensure my media player is accessible. Plus I do apologise that about 60% of this post went on a wee tangent, but that's what happens when something gets me started about the various ways people forget or dismiss accessibility for the disabled!

    1. Re:Idiots lacking nuance by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      You may be falling for the "I want a pony" trick. The music industry asks to be able to cut off people's Internet access entirely, and you see the Great Firewall of China (But for Music) as a reasonable compromise.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:Idiots lacking nuance by bzipitidoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You too may be falling for that trick. Lot of the discussion here runs with the implication that while downloading is not as heinous a crime as stealing, it is still sort of unfair to the artists.

      Should downloading be a crime at all? Nothing was hurt except a tired, broken, obsolete and extremely inefficient business model that needs to be killed off. If you buy from the grocery store, did you just hurt the fast food industry business model? If you drive a car, did you hurt buggy whip manufacturers? Yes, yes you did! Why aren't those actions crimes, why does the music industry get such special status, get to cling to their business model of choice, when there are other perfectly viable models they could use?

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    3. Re:Idiots lacking nuance by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Not me, I completely agree with you!

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  14. The Internet is Becoming Right, Not a Privilege by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    For instance, the internet can be used to gather legal materials for legal proceedings.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
  15. Difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... have to "reasonably implement" a policy for terminating "subscribers ...

    Is this the case where the ISP (Cox communications) was found liable for not implementing an infringement notification mechanism and three-strikes policy? There's a big difference between blocking someone using Twitter and Facebook versus blocking someone using email and online banking.

  16. Easy solution. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just quit buying and listening to music when these cocksuckers started this shit back in the Napster days. Fuck em. If musicians and especially record executives have food to eat on their table, they should consider themselves lucky.

    1. Re:Easy solution. by Falos · · Score: 1

      Middlemen and rent-seekers rolled into one. And now they want to shotgun copyright claims carte blanche.

      In fact, they might use less than zero criteria - since there's no drawback, they have incentive to aim for "inflated" numbers, so they can report We Save You $2,500,000 In (potential) Losses! to the studios/labels they bait into contracts.

    2. Re:Easy solution. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Middlemen and rent-seekers rolled into one. And now they want to shotgun copyright claims carte blanche.

      Eliminating the middleman is never as simple as it sounds. About 50% of the human race is middlemen, and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.

  17. Two way street by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If i had a choice, I would give the recording companies what they ask for with one provision...
    if a right holder was found to incorrectly claim infringement three times in any jurisdiction, the rights to the work would be forfeit to public domain.
    In the event of an artist that has signed over rights for a tiny royalty, the record label is on the hook to the artist for 10 years of gold album sales (500,000 units) at current album rates per fraudulent infringement claim.

    This should stop the rampant disregard for proper verification before litigation.

  18. make ISPs follow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Utility rules!
    Classify ISPs as a utility.

  19. I just remembered... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There happens to be a bunch of corporations owned by other corporations...
    If corporations are legally 'people',
    then doesn't this classify as 'slavery' ?
    And these little corporations doing copyright stuff are 'slaves' ?
    And slaves have no legal rights..... and thus are not people...

    The above is what happens when the laws are not viewed with any common sense...

  20. bullshit still needs to be detected and avoided by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... because the Internet should be classified as a utility similar to electricity.

    No one's advocating termination of house power for a third offender.

    The music industry, in its current form, is a dying business model and knows full well these broad-reaching attempts to stop digital hemorrhages are just not going to work.

    You mean "going to work forever". And therein lies the problem. They may not care that it's not going to work forever. They only care that it helps them make a buck today, regardless of how much it fucks over the information technology infrastructure of our society. This game is over a decade old. It may not make them bucks forever, but I sure get the feeling they'll be mucking up my cyber-environment for just about the rest of my natural life expectancy. Same difference (to me, in the before-the-after-life).

  21. Fixing the term would fix many problems by bradley13 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fixing the copyright term would eliminate many problems: "...a term of 14 years, with the right to renew for one additional 14 year term should the copyright holder still be alive".

    Currently, there is so little music in the public domain that it's laughable. Copyright was enacted to protect and incentivize the people who produce artistic works, not to enrich the publishers, heirs and other non-productive entities. This is true all the way back to the original statute in England from 1710.

    Imagine if all of the music, books, films, etc. through 1988 were in the public domain, along with and many of the works through 2002. What a different world it would be!

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    1. Re:Fixing the term would fix many problems by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      Imagine if all of the music, books, films, etc. through 1988 were in the public domain, along with and many of the works through 2002. What a different world it would be!

      Yes, we'd be inundated with remakes, reboots and unneccessary sequels of classic works...

      ...Oh. Nevermind.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    2. Re:Fixing the term would fix many problems by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Would that be a bad thing? Honest question. If the world were flooded with many more "unofficial" remakes and reboots on account of a shorter copyright term, wouldn't that drive the development of new properties? After all, remakes and reboots would become common to the point of worthlessness if any Joe Schmo (or competing studio) could "steal" your franchise after just a few years and make their own stab at a big budget production. The only way to get ahead in that world would be to stay ahead by constantly coming up with fresh, new franchises, rather than getting someone new to play the same, tired role for the Nth time.

    3. Re:Fixing the term would fix many problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, you want the government to protect you from art you consider bad? WOW.

    4. Re:Fixing the term would fix many problems by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      My point is that we're already inundated with re-hash crap. It could hardly get any worse with shorter copyright terms than it is now!

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    5. Re:Fixing the term would fix many problems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fixing the copyright term would eliminate many problems: "...a term of 14 years, with the right to renew for one additional 14 year term should the copyright holder still be alive".

      Currently, there is so little music in the public domain that it's laughable. Copyright was enacted to protect and incentivize the people who produce artistic works, not to enrich the publishers, heirs and other non-productive entities. This is true all the way back to the original statute in England from 1710 [wikipedia.org].

      Imagine if all of the music, books, films, etc. through 1988 were in the public domain, along with and many of the works through 2002. What a different world it would be!

      Actually, there's no reason why the copyright term has to be reduced to 14 (or 28) years - and there are good reasons not to do this. The issue is not the duration so much as it is the potential for abuse resulting from the current system.

      Rather than limiting copyright itself, it is far better to limit the duration of contracts relating to copyright to 14 years. In other words, after 14 years, any contract involving a copyright lapses.

      This has two huge advantages: first corporations only have a limited ability to control creative content, as they only can do it for a relatively short period of time, and second having long duration contracts clutters up the legal system, which is not a good thing for society (the same reason we have statutes of limitation).

      In fact, regarding that last point, it's actually unethical practice of law for the copyright system to be implemented in the current fashion: the right to ethical practice of law is certainly a right "retained by the people" under US law, with even the appearance of conflict of interest being disallowed when alternatives exist. Long term copyright contracts create artificial and unnecessary long term demand for the services of lawyers, and hence represent unethical practice of law.

      By definition, NO government entity can take away rights retained by the people, whether by law or precedent - not even the federal Supreme Court.

      However, once the contract lapsed, we wouldn't necessarily want to put things into the public domain (yet).

      It would be much better to simply entitle authors to a fixed percentage of any distribution for gain by the previous contractees that includes their work (perhaps 20% of the gross, shared equally by all contributors, for the simple cases where there aren't a lot of contributors). This would last for the rest of their lives. I know 20% doesn't sound like much - but it's a lot higher then the 2-3% the average creative person receives for their creations.

      In other words, a business that has contracted to receive a work subject to copyright would be able to continue to sell products based on that work - but would have to compensate the original authors at a fixed (and probably much higher) rate.

      In addition, after the original 14 years expired, the authors would be free to develop new contracts with other parties, which would have the same 14-year limit.

      Contracts (and the above "continued sale" provision) would not be transferable on the sale or other termination of a business - and would have to be renegotiated.

      At some later date (perhaps 28 years), we could then make the works entirely public domain. But this has to be handled carefully, since otherwise we end up with a situation where third parties are profiting off somebody else's work, without having to compensate the original author - and that's always going to be viewed as theft.

  22. Yeah, they "shouldn't". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But the industry has money, lots of it, and political influence, lots of it. So they'll do as they please. The EFF has been fighting a lost battle in a long-lost war so long that as a joke it's not even funny anymore.

  23. But.. by sc0ob5 · · Score: 1

    Access to the internet is classified as a basic human right by the UN..

    1. Re:But.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Universal Declaration of Human Rights is a bit of a joke, including "paid time off" as a basic human right, but at least it doesn't go so far as to include Internet access (which it pre-dates).

  24. Copyright Alert Sys by bzipitidoo · · Score: 1

    If only! Choices of Internet providers are few. Do you want provider A or provider B, both of whom are in the Copyright Alert System?

    My ISP texted me a CAS notice once. I was plenty angry about the accusation, the system, and the premises the whole thing is built on, as well as their choice of communication medium, but what could I do? Who could I switch to? I looked for alternatives and found nothing but another member of the CAS, though I am in a major metropolitan area.

    --
    Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
  25. TPP / TTIP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do TPP and TTIP have a say in this. If an agreement like TTIP is signed, does that mean signatories to the treaty would be required to implement an X-strikes copyright policy?

  26. Whatever happened to... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Innocent until proven guilty?
    As it is, you can be punished by disconnection if you are ACCUSED of violating copyright law. No proof, no due process.
    It would serve the music industry right if random people accused the music industry bodies of repeat copyright infringement, then get those ISPs to disconnect them without any proof.

  27. Conflict of Interest by davesays · · Score: 1

    This would likely hold for video as well, and many ISPs are also content provider/owners. I am sure they are glad music is doing the heavy lifting for them, this round...

  28. Re:Agreed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why stop there? Lets take away their home and car, cut off their ears in the process. Don't let a little thing like Due process of law stop it.

  29. Malicious prosecution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Charges should be filed against company that terminates ISP service to a house, for wrongful termination of service to all but 1 person in the house. Terminating ISP service to every person in the house, perhaps to stop 1 unknown person in the house or 1 outside the house via WiFi, should be considered malicious action against users of the ISP service.
    Or we could just accept this & continue as sheeple when they terminate service to coffee shops, hotels & any place DMCA violations are alleged.

  30. turn arounds fair play by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3 false copyright desist claims and the music companies internet access should be cut off to.