Slashdot Mirror


A Ham Radio Software Company Has Been Blacklisting Users For Leaving Negative Reviews (theregister.co.uk)

Gandalf_the_Beardy quotes a report from The Register: The Register reports on the story of Jim Giercyk, an amateur radio enthusiast who had his copy of the popular Ham Radio Deluxe (HRD) software revoked after posting a negative review. Other radio hams have followed up with us regarding claims that this was not an isolated incident and others may have had their license keys blacklisted for being publicly critical of the company. And just to be clear: by blackballing keys, installed copies of the software stop working. Giercyk, a professional musician in South Carolina, U.S., says that after his dealings with HRD Software (which has since reinstated his software key) and the statement made by the developer's co-owner Dr Michael Carper, he takes issue with claims made by the company. Giercyk, aka N2SUB, told us on Tuesday: "The issue is not the refusal of service, the issue is that HRD disabled my software, and then offered to enable it in exchange for the removal of an online review of their product. It's extortion, not refusal of service." Giercyk also said that since he went public about his blacklisting last week, he has received messages from other users who have stories of their software keys being revoked by HRD without their knowledge for speaking up about having a bad support experience. A number of other readers pointed out a collection of bad reviews posted on hobbyist site eHam by customers who had their license keys blacklisted. HRD told us some of those users could have written their assessments after requesting a refund and deactivating their software, thus their licenses will appear revoked. Meanwhile, Reddit threads and follow-up discussions to Giercyk's catalyst forum post reveal similar stories of keys being revoked after critical comments about Ham Radio Deluxe have appeared online. Other sources allege some amateur radio forums have in the past deleted posts critical of HRD.

17 of 177 comments (clear)

  1. Good reason to avoid proprietary ham software by Phil+Karn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I had not heard this story, but that might be because I don't personally use Ham Radio Deluxe or any other proprietary ham software, certainly nothing that can be controlled in this way. Other hams are free to use whatever they want, but I personally consider proprietary software to be fundamentally incompatible with the nature and purpose of ham radio.

  2. And we thought Stallman was crazy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The concept of ownership continues to slip through our fingers. And this isn't cheap software! We always say "if you can't open it you don't own it." Perhaps it's time for "if you can't compile it, it's not really installed."

    1. Re:And we thought Stallman was crazy by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've always found it hilariously ironic that hams, of all people, would be willing to buy niche proprietary software, often from small shops where nothing filters people's whimsical behavior with respect to users.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:And we thought Stallman was crazy by Narcocide · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What makes you think psychological turmoil isn't a natural side-effect of everyone around you being so fucking wrong all the time?

    3. Re:And we thought Stallman was crazy by johannesg · · Score: 5, Informative

      The difference between being an idiot, and being a visionary, is mostly a matter of being right at the end of the day. Turns out Stallman is proven more correct with every passing year, as more boxes get closed, more systems get locked down, and more control gets exerted over every aspect of our lives.

      His vision led him to create gcc. Without gcc, do you think we would have had clang or free copies of Visual Studio? Without free compilers, do you think any of the open source world would have existed? And without the open source world, how do you suppose the software landscape would have looked by now?

      It's not scary that post gets +3, interesting. It's only scary that you don't know your history, yet feel qualified to comment on it.

  3. Re:Ham Radio? by Phil+Karn · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yes, ham radio is still very much a "thing". But to me, the one "thing" it never has been is the purchasing of closed, proprietary software that can be turned off at whim by the developer. To me, ham radio has always been a unique hands-on opportunity to learn what's "behind the knobs" of a piece of communications hardware (or now, software). Even if you don't build (or write) your own stuff, even if you're primarily interested in using it to talk to others, it still gives you (or should give you) the opportunity to learn how it all works, to make technology just a little less mysterious and intimidating. Ham radio still provides a creative outlet for hundreds of thousands of people. It helps STEM students learn about electronics, math, physics, or just about any other field of science and engineering even remotely associated with radio communications, such as computers and networking, satellites and remote sensing. When I got into it in high school nearly 50 years ago, it confirmed for me that I wanted to become an electrical engineer, a decision I have never regretted. Even many who decide that a STEM career isn't for them are hams simply because it's an enjoyable hobby.

  4. Use Hamlib and HDSDR by FudRucker · · Score: 5, Informative

    There are alternatives to HamRadioDeluxe, free and Open Source solutions too, Skywave Linux seems to be fairly good built on Ubuntu with all the Ham Radio Software already included, it is a live CD or you can run it from a USB memory stick (thumbdrive) or you can install it on a PC, http://skywavelinux.com/

    also most other major distros will include most of this software in their repositories so installing them in a new linux install is as simple as launching synaptic or using apt-get from the commandline if you already know the names of the app you want, synaptic has a good search feature by keywords so it makes looking for apps easier

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  5. Re:Ham Radio? by chex · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I second this so strongly that most probably won't understand how visceral this is.

    Phil wrote some software used to enable UUCP over packet, way way back when. My roommate and I cobbled together a UUCP feed for a couple of BBSes in rural Idaho. While we were still figuring out the mysteries of Minix and this newfangled Linux thing, we had email before it was cool. It was made possible by software with that callsign in his email address emblazoned on the banners and docs.

    I didn't understand what amateur radio was, but I'd run across the hacker/tinkerer culture in radio that eventually (only a few years ago!) brought me into the hobby. Thanks for the early introduction, Phil!

    Fast forward to today and I'm packing radio gear for six weeks on a remote South Pacific island, because it's a desirable place to talk to (E51AMF, for the curious). I've met countless incredible people all over the world. Many on the radio and many of them in person. I've made lifelong friends because of a shared interest in "seeing what's possible." My only regret is that I saw it was a weird quirky hobby that "probably isn't still a thing."

    Yes, it's still a thing. If you haven't explored the hobby at all, you really should, especially now. So much interesting stuff to explore and try and so many people who want to push the boundaries.

    73, K7ADD

  6. Re:Probably in the fine print. by DRJlaw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The print isn't even that fine. From the license agreement:

    8. We reserve the right to refuse service and disable a customerâ(TM)s key at any time for any reason

    "Again refer to section 8 of the TOS, which was written by our Attorney. " Not by any attorney remotely competent to practice copyright and licensing law. Instant loser in court.

    Also this gem:

    11. WHOLE AGREEMENT. This Agreement is the complete and exclusive statement of the Agreement between us; and supersedes any proposed or prior agreement, oral or written, and any other communications between us relating to this specific granted license and the related obligations; and may be modified or supplemented only by a document signed by both parties to this Agreement.
    NOTICE: HRD Software LLC reserves the right to change or amend this policy at any time without prior notice.

    Completely contradictory language crammed right together. No attorney read this. Not even an incompetent passed-the-bar-the-3rd-time dabbler.

  7. Sadly... by kugeln · · Score: 3, Informative

    A bunch of the software in the world of ham radio is pretty bad--for whatever reason it seems like everybody is stuck on developing software for Windows 95/98 with Visual Basic or FoxPro, and they typically shoot for "it gets the job done" and not much else. There is some great (and free) software out there, but HRD isn't one of them. The real advances in amateur radio software are coming from the devs and hams who embrace open source, or at least believe in sharing the knowledge.

  8. Re:Ham Radio? by jiriw · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If I had modpoints today....

    HAM radio is one of only a hand full of (organized, if you want to) hobbies that encourage you to explore almost all facets of the modern technological equipment we nowadays surround ourselves with. Analog and digital electronics (radios, computer interfaces, micro-controllers and programmable logic, power supply and storage), software (embedded, drivers, applications, communications protocols), metal working (antennas and masts, wave pipes, but also building your own cases)...
    And then of course all the science and mathematics behind it. Electrostatics and electrodynamics, meteorology (propagation), some thermodynamics (noise), some solid-state physics (semiconductors)...

    Also it can be a very social hobby, because if you want to, you can interact with people in any country in the world with a few hundred dollars worth (either store-bought or paid for in time to build from parts) of equipment. Although, I do confess, chances to interact with a North Korean are very slim indeed.
    If you choose to become a member of a HAM radio group, there are also local gatherings of HAMs you can visit, ask for advice and maybe learn a thing or two from. I'm myself a member of VERON (Association of experimental radio research, Netherlands), a Dutch radio amateur club. In the U.S. you have the ARRL.
    If you're interested in volunteering during emergencies, HAM can be a good way in or addition to other 'hobbies' in that direction. In the Netherlands there is DARES (Dutch Amateur Radio Emergency Service). The U.S. equivalent is simply called ARES.

    Don't be discouraged about the science and math. You don't need degrees in them. You can choose to calculate and design of course, but also to 'just' experiment, and see where it goes. As long as you use your common sense and observe a hand full of regulations that keep you from some major stupid actions (like ruining cell tower coverage in your block, hampering other commercial and emergency radio services or do bodily harm due to bundled/high power radiation).
    Without a license you're limited to listening and a few 'free' bands for low power equipment but getting your license isn't that hard. A novice license exam should be doable for anyone willing to spend a few hours every week, for a year in learning the basic science behind the hobby and for reviewing the proper regulations. But your high-school physics and math probably covers most of it, if you paid attention in class. If you want to pass the exam for a full license, you need to dig a little deeper. Most people with college degrees including physics and math find it easy enough and anyone with or close to a bachelor in any remotely related field (in my case: CS - half way at the time, and a precursor hobby experience of (non-radio) electronics and computer hardware) may not even need to study, maybe only 'leaf through' the exam material to pass for the technical exam. Don't forget to review the regulations 'though. I forgot, and still passed by answering that part of the exam on common sense, but you save yourself a lot of stress not following my example ;) .

    73, PG8W.

  9. Here is the support ticket by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here is the entire support ticket the guy opened: http://forums.qrz.com/index.php?attachments/hrd-software-inc-pdf.336462/.
    It seems that they have in their TOS a line that says:

    8. We reserve the right to refuse service and disable a customer’s key at any time for any reason

    Also, they are lying in that it was just one employee that did this. From the ticket you can see an employee was answering the ticket at first, but then "Rick" took over, who appears to be "Rick Ruhl", a co-owner of HRD software, and throws gems like this to the stunned customer:

    You are not buying software, you are buying your callsign's access to the software. ...
    Again refer to section 8 of the TOS, which was written by our Attorney. ...
    See you in court.

    Unbelievable!

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re:Here is the support ticket by nnull · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not unbelievable, this is the attitude with a lot of proprietary HAM software and HAM stores selling devices. They're just straight up assholes.

    2. Re: Here is the support ticket by famebait · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Extortion is still extortion.
      Even if the thing you are threatening to do is perfectly legal sans the threat.

      Also:

      Being an asshole is still being an asshole.
      Even all was legally sound and the other guy could/should have seen your capability to screw him in the terms, securing and exercising that capability is a choice, and that choice can make you an asshole. It is perfectly legal to choose to be an asshole, but don't come whining to me or anyone else when you get called out. Those are the stakes.

      If you actively piss off your customers or prospective customers enough to hurt your reputation, that is on you. It's your problem, and it's your fault.

      --
      sudo ergo sum
    3. Re:Here is the support ticket by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unless they're selling it as a subscription service, I really doubt that line in the TOS would hold up in court. For a contract to be legally valid, there has to be an exchange of consideration - you have to get something for the money you paid. Putting a line in the contract which allows them to unilaterally revoke everything you paid for nullifies that consideration, essentially invalidating the contract. They'd have to give you your money back to enforce that clause.

  10. Re:Ham Radio? by chex · · Score: 4, Informative

    Yep, some "talking on the radio." Lots of examples of that:

    - Maximum average number of contacts per minute for an hour (this is a "contesting" rate)
    - Number of countries you can reach with a given setup (this is usually referred to as a DXCC)
          - I'm working on a variant of this where I intend to continue confirming contacts with 100 unique countries or territories every year. (3 years, so far)
    - Distance per Watt (SSB to Hawaii on 10mW in my case)
    - How many contacts you can make with a setup you carry to the top of a mountain, yourself (look up "SOTA" or Summits on the Air)
    - How fast can you decode Morse code, by ear?

    It's also some of the stuff that KA9Q (Phil) was talking about. RF is incredibly fascinating and amateur radio is a great way to have an output for what you learn, in practice.

    - Most effective antenna you can design and construct, with some constraints (or not!)
    - Maximum possible gain at a given frequency (look up the OH8X 160m beam or ES5TV's 15m stack)
    - How far _below_ the noise floor a given modulation scheme can be decoded (-32dB in my case, usually a combination of hacking on software and searching for the right solar conditions)
    - How good an inexpensive homebrew rig can be (look up Ashar Farhan VU2ICQ)
    - How good can a computer get at decoding Morse code (CW)? (Look up AG1LE and a few others who are using Machine Learning and other techniques for this)

    And yes, it can also be a social hobby. Some people like meeting others from around the world and just talking.

    Yes, some of ham radio is old guys talking for hours on end about their prostate problems or the most amazing grilled cheese sandwich for hours on end. But it's also amazing people doing amazing things. Listen to 144MHz (2m) locals or even the typical 3.8MHz (75m) conversation and you'll instantly get turned off. Dig a little deeper and there's some really cool stuff happening.

    - K7ADD

  11. Re:Ham Radio? by Temkin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm in the process of packing up my house, preparing to move, and I found a 5-1/4" disk in a box. The label says it's Phil Karn's KA9Q TCP/IP stack, copyright 1987. A friend of mine and I used it to learn TCP/IP networking by squirting modem tones thru radios back in 1988. It was kind of a weird time in my life. I wasn't really college ready, so I had a bunch of work to do in a junior college just to get in to a University. I could have very easily given up and wandered away and become an electrician. Ham radio kept my attention. I graduated with a STEM degree, perhaps the wrong STEM degree, but that hardly mattered. Just as I graduated Mosaic appeared, I could code C on SunOS & Linux, I knew TCP/IP networking and the core Internet protocols, and how to troubleshoot all the way down to the physical layer. My career took off like I'd been shot out of a cannon. My friend retired from Apple at age 35.

    Tinkering teaches. Ham radio is very much still a thing.

    And let me just take a moment to say thank you to Phil!