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The US Government is Loaning Millions of Dollars To Jumpstart Urban Farming (businessinsider.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Every year, the US Department of Agriculture devotes millions of dollars to farmers in rural areas. The government is increasingly starting to offer assistance to urban farms, too. In 2016, the USDA funded a dozen urban farms, the highest number in history, Val Dolicini, the administrator for the USDA Farm Services Agency, tells Business Insider. In 2017, he expects the USDA to funnel even more money toward farms on rooftops, in greenhouses, and in warehouses. USDA Microloans, a program that offers funding up to $50,000, is specifically geared toward urban farmers. Established in 2013, the program has awarded 23,000 loans worth $518 million to farms in California, Connecticut, and Massachusetts. Though it is open to all farmers, urban farmers often apply for it because it offers the money on a smaller scale than other programs. Seventy percent (or about 16,100 of those loans) have gone to new farmers, many of them in cities.

131 comments

  1. In unrelated news, pot farming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    is on the upswing.

    1. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by plopez · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not really unrelated. Pot farms in urban warehouses are on the upswing.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    2. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Less than a few years ago.

      It's moving outdoors in CA. Granting the laws haven't progressed to the point where interstate commerce is legal, that isn't stopping anyone.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    3. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by Temkin · · Score: 1

      It's moving outdoors in CA.

      Yea... On other people's land... F'ing pot grow squatters, the new rural blight...

    4. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Bullshit.

      Some in the national forests, but 99% on the grower's land. Much better than when it was illegal.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    5. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by Temkin · · Score: 1

      Some in the national forests, but 99% on the grower's land. Much better than when it was illegal.

      We don't notice any difference. It' the same as when I was a kid in the 1970's... Camp on private land near public land, and run your grow operation. "Oh, we can't camp here? Ok, we'll move... No those aren't our abandoned cars. No, we didn't light that campfire." A week later, they're back. If you make too much trouble, they burn your house down.

    6. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Where are you claiming to see this?

      They used to do that because the cops would steal their land. Now they are mostly growing on their own private land. All over CA.

      There just isn't much money left in it. Market is massively glutted.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by matbury · · Score: 1

      Rubbish! Wherever did you hear that? More people are growing "tomatoes," OK? TOMATOES!

    8. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by Temkin · · Score: 1

      Where are you claiming to see this?

      Oh sure... Tell you where it's happening, and put my 85 year old parents at risk? Ummm... No.

      They used to do that because the cops would steal their land.

      Yea, and the DEA still can, which is why there are still F'ing pot squatters...

    9. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Making it up.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Some in the national forests, but 99% on the grower's land. Much better than when it was illegal.

      Whether it's 1%, 10% or 100% is irrelevant. I live in Lake County which is now part of the increasingly inaccurately-named "Emerald Triangle", and we regularly have massive busts of tens of thousands of plants on public land. We regularly have people camping grows off the side of highways, in the BLM land, and on people's private property. Here, let me tell you a little tale about a man named Jose. Well, I don't know what his name was, but Jose and a shitload of his friends moved onto one of the local hot springs properties because they discovered that it had a massive roofed cistern that they could tap. And that's what they did, and they had about three thousand plants on this guy's land. At the time it was owned by just one man, this guy Elio who still lives there, he kept a little piece of it with his home on it. And what Elio did was call up the cops and tell them that there was a grow on his land, and would they please remove it? And they came and looked at it and said well, we'll get around to it eventually. So he told them he was going to load his pickup truck full and drive it down to city hall, and then they showed up the next day with dump trucks and a front loader to clean it up. See, the problem with a grow of only three thousand plants is that it's not big enough to deal with. It's literally not worth their trouble, because they're busy dealing with busts of ten or twenty thousand plants.

      There is a super shitload of marijuana being grown in the Mendocino National Forest, among others. Hundreds of thousands if not millions of plants. They can only ever bust a percentage of the grows they know about, they just don't have time or funding to do anything else. However, California's marijuana legalization initiative will fix that. See, the funding from licensing production is to be used for enforcement! And they're not licensing nearly enough producers to meet demand, so California's "legalization" initiative is actually going to reduce patients' access to medication by reducing supply even as demand rises. We all know what that does to prices. The legitimate stuff will go through the roof, even though medical isn't taxed. And patients won't be able to compete with the recreational market, and their insurance programs aren't going to cover their medication because the feds just rammed home that even CBD is Schedule I.

      The simple fact is that there is going to be just as much demand for illegally-grown Marijuana as ever before under these new "legalization" schemes, maybe more.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by Temkin · · Score: 1

      Making it up.

      Yea... Yea... We've all heard about the "Disputes Progressive Narrative == Fake News" thing. It's not going to fly...

      I'm actually quite libertarian on the pot issue itself, and there's a ~30% reduction in opioid prescriptions in states that have moved to legalize. That's a hard statistic that is really hard for even the bible thumpers to ignore...

      I just don't want them on my family's land. Squatters are a threat.

    12. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by Tyrannicsupremacy · · Score: 0

      And everybody is just gonna keep buying it from their friends and coworkers and nobody is going to pay taxes on anything. That's how it is here in MA so far.

      --
      http://i.cubeupload.com/T6cyLu.png
    13. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds to me as if federal prohibition is the problem.

    14. Re:In unrelated news, pot farming by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Sounds to me as if federal prohibition is the problem.

      It's the biggest problem, but state government seeing everything as a profit center is also a problem.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  2. While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by Salgak1 · · Score: 1

    . . . is an interesting, and potentially lucrative idea, I suspect it takes a lot more than US$50K to start up. This appears, at least from the article, to be somewhere in the grey area between hobby and small business. . .

    1. Re:While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      . . . is an interesting, and potentially lucrative idea

      Urban farming is already extremely lucrative! Except, the crops grown are only rarely eaten, and more often smoked.

      German politicians are even trying it out on their own rooftops in Berlin, as can be seen in this Ice Bucket Challenge video:

      https://youtu.be/REOA3xXR8tI

      Hmmm . . . now what is that plant next to German politician Cem Özdemir . . . ?

      "E-I, E-I, O, jawohl!" : http://www.ibm.com/support/kno...

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I suspect it takes a lot more than US$50K to start up.

      Government grants/loans should not cover 100% of the cost of a venture. They should only be used to "top up" private investors for projects that have beneficial externalities. The private investment serves to validate the project as economically valid, since people are much more careful when investing their own money.

      Anyway, I think "urban farming" is silly. If you grow food in the city, you avoid hauling that food into the city one time. But if you use the same space to house an urban worker that currently lives in the suburbs, you avoid 400 commutes (twice a day for 200 working days per year).

    3. Re:While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by plopez · · Score: 1

      you don't need a warehouse, just a patch of land. A few acres would do for a start. For labor you can hire hands or go the co-op route.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    4. Re: While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyway, I think "urban farming" is silly. If you grow food in the city, you avoid hauling that food into the city one time. But if you use the same space to house an urban worker that currently lives in the suburbs, you avoid 400 commutes (twice a day for 200 working days per year).

      You can think it is can think it is silly, but your metric is terrible.

      How much food is being hauled, is a much more complicated variable than you are really considering.

    5. Re:While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyway, I think "urban farming" is silly. If you grow food in the city, you avoid hauling that food into the city one time. But if you use the same space to house an urban worker that currently lives in the suburbs, you avoid 400 commutes (twice a day for 200 working days per year).

      You're assuming food is being hauled into the city. I don't know where these [particular] urban farms are, but it's entirely possible that people are trying to help eliminate food deserts.

      My gut feeling is that you still can't [economically] do urban farming where land values are really high, so I doubt it's displacing residential space very much.

    6. Re:While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      p>Anyway, I think "urban farming" is silly. If you grow food in the city, you avoid hauling that food into the city one time. But if you use the same space to house an urban worker that currently lives in the suburbs, you avoid 400 commutes (twice a day for 200 working days per year).

      Assuming that said urban worker wants to live in the city, if they did they'd probably already be there (most cities in the USA are not like San Francisco where an apartment costs way more than a house over an hour outside of the city.) Then again we also have people who live in the urban area but then drive out to the suburbs every day to work.

    7. Re:While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by slashdice · · Score: 3, Insightful

      1. food deserts are by and large a myth

      2. if there is a food desert, using that space to sell food (grown elsewhere) 365 days a year is a better solution than spending 360 days farming for 5 days of produce.

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    8. Re:While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by Etcetera · · Score: 1

      1. food deserts are by and large a myth

      2. if there is a food desert, using that space to sell food (grown elsewhere) 365 days a year is a better solution than spending 360 days farming for 5 days of produce.

      Mod parent up on accord of both comments.

      Outside of, perhaps, Detroit, "urban farming" doesn't make sense as a purely economic policy. If you want to keep people out of trouble, or increase vegetation in the area, or improve agricultural skillsets, fine. But "localvores" are eating locally because they're willing and able to pay for inefficiently-grown food by choice. If you need food in the area, you can get it there cheaper by transporting it from somewhere it's cheaper to grow it. Period.

    9. Re:While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Outside of, perhaps, Detroit, "urban farming" doesn't make sense as a purely economic policy.

      ... and even in Detroit it would be more sensible to give people financial assistance to move somewhere else.

    10. Re:While warehouse-based factory farming. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The farm down the street from me would be surprised to find out that they've been operating under inefficient economic policy. And their customers would be surprised to find out that the produce they buy therefrom is expensive, considering it's cheaper than the grocery store further down the street.

  3. Waste of money by mingot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Cities are a terrible place to try to grow food. Spend the money doing it where the results are worth the effort. This is almost as bad as solar panels street surfaces.

    1. Re:Waste of money by slack_justyb · · Score: 1

      Cities are a terrible place to try to grow food.

      If we're talking traditional farming, then yes, you are correct. However, I feel the idea is to not just stick to traditional farming. I can see specifically engineered plants growing much better in a climate controlled warehouse environments than out in the pastures. The plants might be more engineered to use gray water from the city, be better at using the specific spectrum of light being used in the warehouse, can better use the higher level of CO2 in the city than a regular plant, etc... I will say that everything about this though is still in the baby steps stage. I'm doubtful we will see any meaningful results of urban/vertical/whatever farming until several decades from now.

      But if we just look at it right now, there's nothing incorrect about your statement, and there's always the possibility that this happy marriage of GMO and industrial farming is just pipe dreaming, but that's the risk in anything that is relatively new. So maybe I'm just a hopeless idealist but I think it's early in the game to just completely dismiss what's going on here.

    2. Re:Waste of money by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      All that money to figure out you don't get many bees or pollinators downtown on the 24th floor, so any fruiting plant is out.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    3. Re:Waste of money by houstonbofh · · Score: 1

      Transportation is not a zero cost. Also, when you fully control the environment, that includes pests like insects and weeds...

    4. Re:Waste of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Waste of money as the biggest obstacle to urban farming isn't money, but land/use rights. My grandma was part of a communal patch on a vacant lot, but that ultimately got shitcanned by the city. My own attempt at having a garden in my yard fell afoul of nuisance laws as apparently boxed tomato plants are "weeds".

    5. Re:Waste of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Check out what they have done in places like Detroit. Half of the fresh produce was at a time produced locally. Similarly shrinking cities could be made innovation centers for the new, indoor farming technologies and so boost the redevelopment and recovery of the ailing cities.

    6. Re:Waste of money by plopez · · Score: 1

      Citation detroit is moving in that direction. Industrial agriculture with heavy equipment is probably out, but more traditional agriculture focused on shallow rooted vegetables would be feasible. Orchards might even be feasible.

      Detroit is headed in that direction
      http://www.greeningofdetroit.c...

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    7. Re: Waste of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does that include raised beds where you are? It wouldn't surprise me if the answer was yes, because local government policies can be pretty stupid, but it might be worth looking into as an alternative. I've slapped some pintrest quality boxes together out of pilfered pallet wood.

    8. Re:Waste of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't want to eat something grown in urban soil. look at an enviro hazard map and cities are one big blob of dots of spills, leaks, etc.

      we already have some issues where farmers are growing downstream from long since scrapped industrial plants and the EPA is still finding hazardous levels of arsenic, lead, volatile organics, etc.

    9. Re:Waste of money by tepples · · Score: 2

      So what place is good for both growing food and connecting to the Internet? US rural Internet access is often harshly capped, be it fixed cellular, satellite, or even DSL in parts of Iowa.

    10. Re:Waste of money by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Cities are a terrible place to try to grow food. Spend the money doing it where the results are worth the effort.

      That is what they're doing. When the salad mix industry was invented, it wasn't for consumers. It was for food service institutions. Pre-mixed salads didn't appear in stores until much, much later. The majority of what is being grown in the US in cities is greens. The greens are being grown hydroponically in/on vertical towers, which minimizes the use of space. Salad doesn't travel well, and there is typically a lot of waste. Producing it near the point of consumption addresses both of these issues and reduces the cost. Greens are probably the crop most viable in the city, so that's what you'd expect to see produced most, and that's actually what is happening.

      The people behind the modern farm-to-table movement didn't invent it because they wanted to be cool. They were trying to both cut costs and increase quality. Modern food production methods produce an inferior product in the name of convenience. Going back to local production and seasonal vegetables means eating better-quality food. But this is a way of having fresh greens year-round and in fact at a competitive price because so much of the packaging and transport is taken out of the equation.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Waste of money by DamonHD · · Score: 1

      Actually bees can do well in cities, eg:

      http://www.urbanbees.co.uk/

      Rgds

      Damon

      --
      http://m.earth.org.uk/
    12. Re:Waste of money by plopez · · Score: 1

      we really don't need genetic engineering. There is plenty of under utilized land out there, see an aerial photo of Detroit as an example.

      Plants love CO2 already and there is some thinking that increased CO2 due to climate change would increase plant growth rate, with unknown side effects.

      You do not even need to engineer plants for indoor lighting as there are things called "grow lights" that have light spectrums optimized for plants.

      Plants already love grey water as it often contains phosphates and nitrogen from lawn runoff.

      WHere warehouses really make sense is in areas with a short growing season, e.g. the interior of Alaska, or a lack of open land.

      GMO is not needed, just a basic understanding of farming.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    13. Re:Waste of money by plopez · · Score: 1

      Who said anything about orchards on the 24th floor?

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    14. Re:Waste of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      where would that be? where its traditionally farmed is a terrible place, which is why we pumped 20 BILLION into subsidies for it last year alone

    15. Re:Waste of money by jaapvdhorst · · Score: 2

      No it is a succes story in reality: http://www.innovationquarter.n...

    16. Re:Waste of money by jaapvdhorst · · Score: 1
    17. Re:Waste of money by pi_rules · · Score: 1

      All that money to figure out you don't get many bees or pollinators downtown on the 24th floor, so any fruiting plant is out.

      You can grow plenty of fruiting plants without pollinators. Tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, green beans, and peas are just fine.

    18. Re:Waste of money by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Not in my city. Not one single fruit from my plants, despite plenty of flowers. Of course I remember someone marketing urban apiaries too but I can imagine those would not survive the first lawsuit when a neighbor or window-cleaner gets stung.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    19. Re:Waste of money by ejr · · Score: 1

      Also, there is an absurd amount of wasted space in urban environments, often the same areas that have convenient access only to "dollar stores" and gas stations.

      More growers locally means (ideally) more food available without having to spend hours on a bus. The next step is education. Many people quite honestly do not know the difference between cheezy poofs and actual food. They never have had easy access to actual food. It's different, so it is met with some trepidation. Here appealing to the elderly is HUGE. They remember eating from victory gardens. And they can lay on the guilt...

    20. Re: Waste of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It also makes sense in drought ridden areas. If you can recycle any evaporated water, you can dramatically reduce the water usage of farming.

    21. Re:Waste of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Makes me smile anytime I read a post from someone who actually knows something about the topic.

      Well done.

    22. Re:Waste of money by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Are you too lazy to pollinate the flowers by hand, or just ignorant?

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    23. Re: Waste of money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Recovering fertilizer runoff will also be beneficial. Lots of farms waste enormous amounts of fertilizer. All that waste winds up in local waterways.

    24. Re:Waste of money by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Are you too lazy to pollinate the flowers by hand, or just ignorant?

      I already have a job, sweetheart.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    25. Re:Waste of money by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      I already have a job, sweetheart.

      If you want to attract bees for free, plant things they like. Then they just show up and hit your other plants while they're in the neighborhood.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    26. Re:Waste of money by pi_rules · · Score: 1

      Plants already love grey water as it often contains phosphates and nitrogen from lawn runoff.

      Using uncontrolled water like that, especially if you're counting on it being contaminated with feed already, is a recipe for disaster. Some crops like tomatoes, cucumbers, zucchini/squash as examples really do not like nitrogen as they get into the fruiting stage. Too much and they'll remain in their vegetative growing state and just not bothering with the flowering and fruiting. You sometimes see that in ornamental plants too. Trumpet Vine is one that comes to mind. Too much nitrogen and it won't flower. Beyond that you would still want to sanitize the water. Grey water, I assume, would likely be contaminated just as much as surface water (ie: a pond) and therefore require a bit more work which is something I know about. I work in a greenhouse and I'm the guy that gets to muddle with ozone, chlorine, hydrogen peroxcide, or whatever else we're using to clean the water up. Failure to keep the water clean leads to, at least, clogging of irrigation emitters and at worst fungal diseases. Even if you're working with water so clean you could drink it you STILL generally put something in the lines to keep thing sanitary.

  4. To what end exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have plenty of rural farming. If we wanted to make farming more productive overall, we could do so there without the capital investment required to do urban farming. The main thing that urban farming does is give hipsters in Park Slope better and fresher luxury vegetables. I'm sure these are in fact tasty, but it's hardly a needy group that needs subsidizing...

    1. Re:To what end exactly? by plopez · · Score: 1

      1) make unproductive land useful.
      2) build community
      3) grow food with better nutritional value. See http://hortsci.ashspublication...

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    2. Re:To what end exactly? by plopez · · Score: 1

      Industrial farming looks to be destroying the food value of crops see http://hortsci.ashspublication...

      It may make sense in terms of cost per nutrient value. More and more industrial grown food is becoming empty calories.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    3. Re:To what end exactly? by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, I don't think anyone thinks Brooklyn is going to replace Idaho for potatoes or the Central Valley for Broccoli, but I can think of several reasons to add urban farming as a supplement to the great food-growing regions.

      The first is to cater to local tastes. You see this particularly in cities that have large immigrant communities, many members of which have agricultural experience. Urban gardening is quite valuable in giving them access to familiar foods and to ease their transition into the United States. Extending that to a slightly larger market (say local restaurants) can help introduce new foods into the mainstream, and this is a great service to the traditional farmer.

      We tend to forget that many crops we take for granted were once exotics -- like tomatoes. Peanuts were an exotic food that was explicitly pushed to give cotton farmers an alternative crop during the boll weevil crisis in the 1900s, and now we see them as part of our national and regional heritages.

      As Thomas Jefferson said, "The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add a useful plant to its culture." The way to do that is on a small scale near lots of people.

      Another good reason is to provide access to crops that don't ship well. People who live far from where peaches grow literally have no idea what they're missing. You've never eat a real peach until you've had to do it leaning over the sink. Same goes for tomatoes, which are bred to ship well and are picked green, fake "ripened" with ethanol gas (a plant hormone). The result is boring bulk matter for your boring salad. A vine-ripe heirloom tomato is something to be enthusiastic about, but there's no way you're going to get it from Mexico to New York City. But I don't think having good locally grown tomatoes will hurt the market for supermarket tomatoes which are available year-round.

      Do I think we'll be getting much sweet potatoes or wheat from urban farms? No. These are crops that are already widely popular and ship and store well. So urban farming won't supplant rural farming, or even offset it much. That doesn't mean it's not useful.

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    4. Re:To what end exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't fear, guaranteed some hipster prick will be growing rooftop wheat then hand milling it and baking it into artisanal loaves using wild yeast, to sell to other hipster pricks.

    5. Re:To what end exactly? by hey! · · Score: 2

      What I understand is why people like you think anyone should care if you think something that brings them pleasure is ridiculous. I sincerely don't get it.

      You know who tried doing more or less what you are mocking? One of my old MIT professors, Phil Morrison. He was the physicist who designed the explosive lenses used in the Trinity nuclear test and the Nagasaki bomb. He wrote about it in one of his popular science columns. He was especially delighted when neighbors asked whether they could harvest some of his leftover wheat, because that meant his experiment had reproduced a historical side effect of small-scale wheat domestic wheat production: gleaners.

      Why would one of the most brilliant minds of the twentieth century waste his time growing wheat? Because he thought it would be interesting. If you don't understand that you're not a geek, you're a prig.

      --
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    6. Re:To what end exactly? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same goes for tomatoes, which are bred to ship well and are picked green, fake "ripened" with ethanol gas (a plant hormone).

      They're ripened with ethylene gas, not ethanol. The same thing happens if you have to ripen them inside the house because it got too cold early and you had a pick a late crop while it was still mostly green, you just put plastic over the top of the bowl and let the gas that they are already releasing build up, there's nothing unnatural about it.

      Anyhow my experience with tomatoes has been hit and miss, sometimes I get something that tastes better than store bought and other times I get something that is barely edible. Store bought does have the advantage of being more consistent.

    7. Re:To what end exactly? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      He should keep his mouth shut Wickard v. Filburn means his growing of wheat was probably against Federal regulations and could result in a hefty fine or prison...

      --
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  5. This is not about urban farming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is about making farming an attractive proposition to the next generation of potential farmers. (I am somewhat optimistic: my grandparents sold their farm to a returning Iraq vet who wants to get into the business.) The knowledge and skills of the agricultural sector are being lost an alarming rate and without new farmers we're doomed.

    Also: the USDA is super excited about the return of farmer's markets. They are an important, one might say even vital, interchange between urban and rural economies.

  6. Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by mpercy · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://www.salon.com/2010/03/1...

    In the John Waters-esque sector of northwest Baltimore — equal parts kitschy, sketchy, artsy and weird — Gerry Mak and Sarah Magida sauntered through a small ethnic market stocked with Japanese eggplant, mint chutney and fresh turmeric. After gathering ingredients for that evening’s dinner, they walked to the cash register and awaited their moments of truth.

    “I have $80 bucks left!” Magida said. “I’m so happy!”

    “I have $12,” Mak said with a frown.

    The two friends weren’t tabulating the cash in their wallets but what remained of the monthly allotment on their Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program debit cards, the official new term for what are still known colloquially as food stamps.

    Magida, a 30-year-old art school graduate, had been installing museum exhibits for a living until the recession caused arts funding — and her usual gigs — to dry up. She applied for food stamps last summer, and since then she’s used her $150 in monthly benefits for things like fresh produce, raw honey and fresh-squeezed juices from markets near her house in the neighborhood of Hampden, and soy meat alternatives and gourmet ice cream from a Whole Foods a few miles away.

    “I’m eating better than I ever have before,” she told me. “Even with food stamps, it’s not like I’m living large, but it helps.”

    Mak, 31, grew up in Westchester, graduated from the University of Chicago and toiled in publishing in New York during his 20s before moving to Baltimore last year with a meager part-time blogging job and prospects for little else. About half of his friends in Baltimore have been getting food stamps since the economy toppled, so he decided to give it a try; to his delight, he qualified for $200 a month.

    “I’m sort of a foodie, and I’m not going to do the ‘living off ramen’ thing,” he said, fondly remembering a recent meal he’d prepared of roasted rabbit with butter, tarragon and sweet potatoes.

    1. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An art school graduate and a blogger "with prospects for little else" who also happens to be a foodie.

      Useless people like that don't even deserve foodstamps, but the government is a bit more compassionate than I am.

    2. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. This is what universal basic income will produce. Lots of people getting paid to stand around looking for jobs that don't need to be done. - with no incentive to do otherwise.
      There's a lot of well paying jobs out there for people willing to do work (construction, for example). Why bother when Uncle Sam pays idleness so well?

    3. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And some people wonder how Trump managed to win and the Republicans kept hold of the House. Stories where people on food stamps brag about eating better than most people who do work for a living don't help to change sentiments.

    4. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      There food budgets are $150 and $200/month.

      That's lower than most people who work for a living.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    5. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, it's terrible that poor people get to eat good food. Especially people you don't like.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    6. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There food budgets are $150 and $200/month.

      That's lower than most people who work for a living.

      Are you talking about for families or single individuals? $200/month for groceries for a single person is a rather big budget and certainly more than I used to spend when I was single but then again I wasn't spending it on roast rabbit and gourmet ice cream.

    7. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I was poor, I spent less than that on food. Of course, it was my own money I was spending.

    8. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      It's probably about what I spend on groceries, but I eat out a good bit too.

      I'm definitely not thrifty, but I'm hardly spendy (on food) either.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    9. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      “I’m sort of a foodie, and I’m not going to do the ‘living off ramen’ thing,”

      This is precisely the purpose of the Food Stamps program, and has been from its inception: to keep people from cutting back on what they spend on food.

    10. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      roasted rabbit

      roof rabbit?

    11. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      These people both have higher education - in one case, the University of Chicago, which isn't exactly Directional State U. They are not poor because they were born in the inner city and lack connections. They are not poor because they are simply incapable of being productive members of society. They are poor because they have chosen to work in fields that have insanely low income potential, and indeed have chosen not to go into any number of productive jobs (at the very least, they would qualify as high school teachers with relatively little retraining). But they want me to pay for them to eat something other than rice and beans? Screw them.

      These are practically poster children for "it's a safety net, not a hammock".

    12. Re:Are those hipsters on foodstamps? Could be... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, it's terrible that poor people get to eat good food. Especially people you don't like.

      Perhaps if their food didn't taste so good they would try a little harder to claw their way out of poverty.

  7. It's time by QuietLagoon · · Score: 2

    It's time to take back farming from the huge corporate agricultural entities.

    1. Re:It's time by MrLogic17 · · Score: 2

      Someone needs to google the term "economies of scale".

      Urban farming will never be more than a niche hobby, unless you count weed.
      As that gets legalized, industrial scale farming efficiencies will drive that away too.

    2. Re:It's time by tepples · · Score: 2, Insightful

      On Slashdot, one common answer to "We can't get good Internet out in the country" has been "Then move." So until the U.S. Congress figures out how to crack down on telcos taking rural Internet subsidies and pocketing them, urban farming will remain the only way people can grow food while retaining practical access to information services that have become a necessity over the past two decades.

    3. Re:It's time by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Small restaurants and shops in cities don't need 'economies of scale'. They have economies of population density.

      The world is indeed more complex than Walmart.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:It's time by Kjella · · Score: 1

      So until the U.S. Congress figures out how to crack down on telcos taking rural Internet subsidies and pocketing them

      Or you know, let people do the job themselves.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:It's time by Major+Blud · · Score: 1

      It's time to take back farming from the huge corporate agricultural entities.

      How does urban farming fix this? I would think most real estate in big cities is going to be owned by corporate developers. I don't think people living on rent control are going to be the ones owning their small plot of farmland.

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    6. Re:It's time by sjames · · Score: 1

      I will if you look up reliability. It may not be the most efficient source of food but you can't get laid off from it

    7. Re:It's time by Sparowl · · Score: 1

      Which is, you know, illegal in many states.

  8. Farms on rooftoops?! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's not the right word. There aren't any rooftops in the world too large to be called "gardens".

  9. Trump should end this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a fucking waste of money

    1. Re: Trump should end this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is going to raise your taxes first. Then lower mine. And I didn't even vote for that lying ckcsckr. Maybe I should thank you.

    2. Re: Trump should end this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct Rhe Record here. Politifact determined that Donald Trump is a liar but he has never sucked a cock. They also determined that Hillary Clinton is a liar and has probably sucked at least 3 cocks. Therefore, Donald Trump is not a lying cocksucker but Hillary Clinton is.

  10. Solar powered warehouse farming? by jfdavis668 · · Score: 2

    When you are warehouse farming, do you put solar panels on the roof to supply power to the lights inside?

    1. Re:Solar powered warehouse farming? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      When you are warehouse farming, do you put solar panels on the roof to supply power to the lights inside?

      If you're lucky, you find a space whose roof is missing and you cover it over with that corrugated fiberglass stuff they normally roof greenhouses with. Then you only need supplemental light. However, you also can grow greens vertically. They don't need full sun exposure; in fact, in most places you can't grow them in the summer because they bolt.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Solar powered warehouse farming? by pi_rules · · Score: 2

      If you're lucky, you find a space whose roof is missing and you cover it over with that corrugated fiberglass stuff they normally roof greenhouses with.

      You don't normally line a greenhouse roof with the corrugated plastic. It doesn't let enough light through compared to other methods and it also doesn't have the insulation factor.

      Most roofs are plastic sheeting, nice and clear, with UV blocking on the outside and IR reflection on the inner layer. You install it with two sheets, clip it all down, and then pump and air blower into the cavity between the two for your insulation.

  11. Urban farming by ITRambo · · Score: 4, Informative

    Urban farming is normally called gardening. What are they trying to prove calling it farming?

    1. Re:Urban farming by kwerle · · Score: 1

      I think gardening traditionally includes things like growing flowers and shrubberies.
      Farming is traditionally about growing food.

      They are specifically not funding aunt martha's rose hedge.

    2. Re:Urban farming by tepples · · Score: 1

      Google Search shows over 12 million results for the phrase "vegetable garden".

      Another guess is that "farming" has a connotation of energy-rich grains and soy as opposed to micronutrient-rich vegetables.

    3. Re:Urban farming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    4. Re:Urban farming by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      I'll give you a clue: a truck farm is not a vehicle plant.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    5. Re:Urban farming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gardening generally refers to backyard hobbyists or professional yard-maintenance work. Urban Farming is considered farming because it is a business that grows food crops in large quantities as a commercial product.

      Nobodies trying to 'prove' anything!

  12. LOAN is a NOUN, lend is the verb you should use. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    God damn it, where were you fucktards supposedly educated ?

    You're idiots.

  13. Grow a victory garden, go to jail by tepples · · Score: 1
    1. Re: Grow a victory garden, go to jail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That'd sound better if it didn't read like a Ron Paul derived chain letter lamenting the evils of food stamps and welfare programs.

    2. Re: Grow a victory garden, go to jail by tepples · · Score: 1

      In the case of Julie Bass's vegetable garden, Oak Park did end up dropping the charges.

  14. Boeing's 99-acre roof, Tesla 125 acre by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > There aren't any rooftops in the world too large to be called "gardens".

    Maybe a few. Boeing's Everett Factory has a 99 acre roof (building several 767 airliners at once requires a fair bit of room). Tesla's factory will 125 acres, and the Talsmeer Flower Auction is a tad larger. Down the list at #16, an Amazon warehouse is 22 acres - still small farm.

    So there are about 20 or so roofs in the world big enough to be a farm.

    1. Re:Boeing's 99-acre roof, Tesla 125 acre by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      Tesla's factory will 125 acres

      It may just be wild speculation, but I think Tesla may be covering it's roof with something other than plants.

  15. Re:LOAN is a NOUN, lend is the verb you should use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least they didn't say the gov't is 'borrowing' money to urban farmers.

  16. Re:LOAN is a NOUN, lend is the verb you should use by tepples · · Score: 1

    If "loaning" specifically means lending through a financial instrument called a loan, then all loaning is lending, but not all lending is loaning.

  17. Re:LOAN is a NOUN, lend is the verb you should use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    loan - transitive verb : lend

    "The verb loan is one of the words English settlers brought to America and continued to use after it had died out in Britain. Its use was soon noticed by British visitors and somewhat later by the New England literati, who considered it a bit provincial. It was flatly declared wrong in 1870 by a popular commentator, who based his objection on etymology. A later scholar showed that the commentator was ignorant of Old English and thus unsound in his objection, but by then it was too late, as the condemnation had been picked up by many other commentators."

  18. The "next generation of farmers" aren't urban. by tlambert · · Score: 2

    The "next generation of farmers" aren't urban.

    They are the factory farming companies who take over for the current generation of factory farming companies.

  19. So where do I spend my rooftop? by tlambert · · Score: 2

    So where do I spend my rooftop?

    Do I spend it on solar, or do I spend it on farming?

    Is this going to be the next federal spending Solyndra?

  20. WTF? by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

    The entire reason cities exist is because it's wasteful to have people separated by the amount of agricultural land needed to support them. A family of 4 needs about 2 acres (0.8 hectares) of land to grow the food needed to sustain them. Cities leveraged advances in transportation tech and a trade economy to decouple the food production from living spaces. The maximum size of a city is basically determined by the efficiency of the food transport and distribution network - the better those are, the larger the radius of land surrounding the city that can be used to feed its occupants.

    Backyard and rooftop gardens are a good (and fun) way to supplement your diet with a few items which might be difficult or expensive to obtain at the grocery store. But they don't come anywhere close to putting a dent in self-sustainability. Given the premium that is placed on space is in cities, there's probably a much better use for that land area than for growing crops. The idea that you can feed yourself by planting a garden in your backyard is a delusion perpetuated by people who've never crunched the actual numbers. The entire reason the unit of an "acre" exists is because that was the amount of crop fields a single person could typically work in a day back when most everyone was living on a subsistence diet.

    In other words, even if you had enough land area to actually be able to grow enough in your backyard garden to feed yourself, (1) it would be your full-time job, and (2) you would pretty much be on a starvation-level diet. For all the flak agri-business gets, they've done a remarkable job improving farming efficiency. During pre-industrial times, each farmer grew enough food to feed 1.1 people. Today, a single farmer produces enough food to feed 150 people (2.1 million farmers vs 319 million population).

    Some of the things described in TFA are just plain stupid. Growing plants in shipping containers with light from LEDs? So rather than grow the plants on a farm so 100% of the sunlight reaches the plants, you're going to use 16% efficient solar panels to generate electricity to power 10% efficient LEDs so only 1.6% of the sunlight reaches the plants? Are you insane? Cannabis grow labs have to do this to evade law enforcement (in places where it's illegal), but there is no logical reason to do this for food crops.

    1. Re:WTF? by danbert8 · · Score: 2

      Note that the 1.1 people fed is to the basic survival level of nutrition with little waste and the 150 people today are largely obese with 30-40% of all food in the US going in the trash.

      --
      Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
    2. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ratio of farmers to people fed is misleading. It does not include people who make farm equipment, people who make fertilizer, pesticides, and herbicides, people who breed and produce seed. people who transport crops, and people who process some agricultural products into foodstuff.

    3. Re:WTF? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Growing plants in shipping containers with light from LEDs? So rather than grow the plants on a farm so 100% of the sunlight reaches the plants, you're going to use 16% efficient solar panels to generate electricity to power 10% efficient LEDs so only 1.6% of the sunlight reaches the plants? Are you insane?

      You were doing pretty well up to here, but now you're being incredibly stupid...

      PV solar panels are FAR more efficient at converting solar radiance into usable energy than photosynthesis is. In addition, LEDs can be monochromatic if desired, giving plants JUST the spectrum of light they can effectively utilize.

      Quoted values sunlight-to-biomass efficiency
      Plant Efficiency
      Plants, typical 0.2%-2%
      Typical crop plants 1-2%
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      The PV route is certainly NOT cost effective at current prices for PV panels and LEDs, and won't be as long as there's lots of cheap farmland out there, and inexpensive long distance transit (i.e. freight trains) to get it from the cheap land to the expensive cities, but apply the equivalent of Moore's Law to PV panels and/or LEDs, and you don't have to go even an generation into the future before it starts to sound like an economically viable option, at least for certain edge cases.

      Don't believe it? Tell me where all the legal (in several states) marijuana plants are being grown in the US, today... And when it happens with other crops, it could make all manner of strange farming methods viable... Sky-scrapers growing crops? Stationary harvester equipment (robots) on each floor instead of hordes of migrant farm-hands. The future of farming has the potential to look very weird, indeed.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    4. Re:WTF? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Harder and harder to make money growing pot indoors in CA. The sun is free. Harvest glut lasts all year.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    5. Re:WTF? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The entire reason cities exist is because it's wasteful to have people separated by the amount of agricultural land needed to support them.

      Cities exist because people want to live near other people, and near goods and services, and there are efficiencies of scale which cause certain goods and services to only be available near population centers. If we didn't have such massive population centers, we would have different goods and services which fulfilled the corresponding needs in a more rural society. This is why cities wither and die when you move transportation corridors away from them, and why new cities form along transportation corridors — especially at junctions.

      The maximum size of a city is basically determined by the efficiency of the food transport and distribution network - the better those are, the larger the radius of land surrounding the city that can be used to feed its occupants.

      The maximum size of a city is basically determined by the efficiency of the transportation network, period. People have to move around to get things done.

      Backyard and rooftop gardens are a good (and fun) way to supplement your diet with a few items which might be difficult or expensive to obtain at the grocery store. But they don't come anywhere close to putting a dent in self-sustainability.

      Using intensive organic gardening it is possible to feed a family on as little as half an acre. Any substantial fraction of a family's food needs which can be provided from their own land doesn't have to come from elsewhere, with all the inefficiency that implies. It also implies a potentially higher standard of produce, because the produce sold in your store was bred to be good for storing and shipping first, and flavor and nutrition second. Further, the ugly produce was probably discarded, although some small percentage of it is made into product. There is substantial waste in our food production system.

      During pre-industrial times, each farmer grew enough food to feed 1.1 people.

      Irrelevant. We have access to different varieties and technologies today. The world is very different now than it was then, in many ways. One of them is that "new world" plants are now ubiquitous all over the world. What would Italian food be without Tomatoes? What would the Irish be without potatoes?

      Growing plants in shipping containers with light from LEDs? So rather than grow the plants on a farm so 100% of the sunlight reaches the plants, you're going to use 16% efficient solar panels to generate electricity to power 10% efficient LEDs so only 1.6% of the sunlight reaches the plants?

      It's cheaper to ship electricity to another state than produce. Only 5% or less of electricity is lost in distribution in the USA. LEDs tend to be coupled with fairly high-efficiency conversion equipment as well, simply because it reduces their power supply requirements. Also, your math is way off. Solar panels actually use more frequencies of light than plants do, for one thing. LED grow lights are predominantly red and blue.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:WTF? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Your understanding of the wikipedia article on luminous efficacy is lacking. Luminous efficacy is relative to the spectral response of the human eye. The power efficiency of the LEDs is more relevant, but that information is rarely published.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    7. Re:WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea that you can feed yourself by planting a garden in your backyard is a delusion perpetuated by people who've never crunched the actual numbers. The entire reason the unit of an "acre" exists is because that was the amount of crop fields a single person could typically work in a day back when most everyone was living on a subsistence diet.

      In other words, even if you had enough land area to actually be able to grow enough in your backyard garden to feed yourself, (1) it would be your full-time job, and (2) you would pretty much be on a starvation-level diet. For all the flak agri-business gets, they've done a remarkable job improving farming efficiency. During pre-industrial times, each farmer grew enough food to feed 1.1 people. Today, a single farmer produces enough food to feed 150 people (2.1 million farmers vs 319 million population).

      So which is it? Can a single person, making it their full-time job, grow enough to feed 1.1 people or 150 people?

  21. Misleading article by YoungComputerTech69 · · Score: 1

    "Funded a dozen urban farms" "Funding up to 50,000" 50,000*12=600,000 Not millions. Then it goes on to say it's specifically geared to urban farms and has put out 23,000 loans worth $518 million. If it's only given loans to 12 urban farms out of a total of 23,000 I wouldn't say it's geared to urban farms, nor does that $518 million number have anything to do with urban farms...

  22. Urban Farmboy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what is the hold up in genetically modfying Kudzu - either for human consumpton as food, or as a large leaf THC producer?
    As food, it has an amazing growth rate.
    As the other, it has an amazing growth rate.
    I remember reading that Hops plants can be grafted onto Marijuana roots to produce THC active Hops.....

    1. Re:Urban Farmboy... by bluegutang · · Score: 1

      Because marijuana causes a bunch of social and medical problems, just like alcohol does (though not as bad).

      Marijuana should be legal because the costs of prohibition are probably worse than the costs of marijuana. But once prohibition is gone, there's no reason to artificially make it even easier to ingest THC.

    2. Re:Urban Farmboy... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Kudzu should be turned into goat and sheep meat.

  23. Solar farm by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Solar farm

    1. Re:Solar farm by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      They should put a green roof under the solar roof, which should be traditional rather than their fancy new tiles. And then they can grow shade-grown coffee there. Get a jolt with your jolt! Recharge where you recharge!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Solar farm by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Tilling that farm is pretty hard on it, though... Doesn't like the combine either.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  24. I worry a bit about the safety of this by mlyle · · Score: 2

    Population density and machines mean various kinds of pollution which you don't really want getting concentrated in your food (solvents and plasticizers from trash, medications, oil from runoff, lead from water in municipal water systems, and tailpipe emissions and particulates from everywhere).

    On the other hand, it's probably great for disaster preparedness and robustness of the supply chain if a few percent of a city's nutrient needs can come from rooftop gardens, and people find farming enjoyable. And food grown in small batches rather than industrially is super yummy.

    So, I'm not sure of the net impact of this. I hope in 20 years the increase in urban farming is seen as something good, rather than another way that we concentrated lead into poor peoples' bodies.

  25. What A Waste! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What an epic waste of tax payer dollars.

    Organic, local source, feels good to hipster me, fuck facts and figures.

    Just because you grew a kale and a half an ounce of weed in the last 12 months does not qualify you as a farmer or anything vaguely close. That's not even close to feeding yourself, let alone anyone else in your family or neighborhood.

  26. Too late for cities to go autarkic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The countryside has already seized power.

  27. Gov solution to a problem created by government by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

    The reason there are few if any urban farms is because city governments have regulated them out of existence.

    --
    The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
  28. Obama corruption by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Democrats run the cities. This is just Obama sending another pile of money to his political supporters.
    Does anybody think that when these ventures fail, the money will ever get back to the government from his supporter's pockets?

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  29. Re: running at a loss 12 out of 12 months by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In northern USA from mid-October thru mid-April, propane for heat and electricity for lights easily cost more than the veggies sell for. For 7 out of 12 months you lose money because you import energy. For the other 5 months you lose money trying to compete with open fields who get free water and sunlight, and don't pay property taxes. If you're growing to eat yourself instead of for income then its free food and a fun hobby.

  30. It's not about pot. by chazd1 · · Score: 1

    Leaving real farms to grow the industrial foods we all love so much (Barf). There is a nice niche market for leafy greens that are directly consumed by humans grown aeroponically, not hydroponically. Hydroponics require much heavy amount of nutrient solution. The weight prevents going vertical. LED lighting and the membrane technology are the key points to built on with aeroponics. Check out www.aerofarms.com

  31. It's not about pot. by chazd1 · · Score: 1

    Leaving real farms to grow the industrial foods we all love so much (Barf). There is a nice niche market for leafy greens that are directly consumed by humans grown aeroponically. Not hydroponically. Too heavy, too bulky for the amount of nutrient solution. LED lighting and the membrane technology are the key points to built on. Check out www.aerofarms.com

  32. Paris used to *export* vegetables by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In the horse era, they developed the French intensive method and urban growers produced enough to have a surplus to sell outside the city.