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Automatic Brakes Stopped Berlin Truck During Christmas Market Attack (dw.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Deutsche Welle: The truck that plowed into a Berlin Christmas market, killing 12, came to a halt due an automatic braking system, according to German media reports on Wednesday. The automatic braking system potentially saved the lives of many more people in the recent terrorist attack. An investigation by newspaper "Suddeutsche Zeitung" and broadcasters "NDR" and "WDR" found the Scania R 450 semi-trailer stopped after between 70 and 80 meters (250 feet). The system was reportedly engaged after sensing a collision. Previous reports speculated that the truck had driven erratically and stopped due to the heroic actions of the truck's Polish driver, who lay fatally wounded in the cabin. In 2012 the European Union adopted regulations requiring all new trucks exceeding 3,500 kilograms be fitted with advanced emergency braking systems. The systems initially alert drivers and then take evasive action. The regulation was adopted to reduce the number of rear end collisions by trucks.

32 of 164 comments (clear)

  1. Double edged sword by Trachman · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Could have stopped. Should have stopped.... Technology is evolving fast.

    If this technologically non-savvy terrorist had no idea about automated braking, just think about technologically savvy terrorist who will be able to program automatic trucks to ignore collision by hacking certain sensors. We are talking about automatic road killing robot.

    How would you stop such autonomous cargo truck with no driver to shoot at?

    1. Re:Double edged sword by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fortunately you have to be kind of an idiot to want to murder people like this anyway.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Double edged sword by mysidia · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Need to keep ahead of them by making mandatory Automatic self-testing with Error memory until serviced by a certified shop And monitoring of line pressure and devices, at least at engine start, periodically when idling or running at low speed, when initially accelerating from a full stop, And Failsafe Interlocks to the automatic braking systems To prevent applying power after an error is detected in the braking system.

      If the braking system fails to self-test, or Auto-braking has engaged but accelerator still pushed, then the engine computer will throttle the engine down to Zero and if accelerating after 1 second, kill drive power.

    3. Re:Double edged sword by EmeraldBot · · Score: 2

      Could have stopped. Should have stopped.... Technology is evolving fast.

      If this technologically non-savvy terrorist had no idea about automated braking, just think about technologically savvy terrorist who will be able to program automatic trucks to ignore collision by hacking certain sensors. We are talking about automatic road killing robot.

      How would you stop such autonomous cargo truck with no driver to shoot at?

      You don't make these systems available remotely. In order for a terrorist to mod the controls, they would need physical access to the truck - and you would still have protection, for example, if you had a system with a burned in checksum that refused to operate if it detected modifications to the firmware. With traditional drivers, all they have to do is slit the brake lines or tranquillize the driver... And automated driving also takes misinterpretation mistakes, aggressive driving, and sleepiness out of the list of possible death situations. Isn't that worth it?

      --
      "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
    4. Re:Double edged sword by goose-incarnated · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How would you stop such autonomous cargo truck with no driver to shoot at?

      Fortunately you have to be kind of an idiot to want to murder people like this anyway.

      That fact doesn't lessen the threat; the world is filled with idiots, after all.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    5. Re:Double edged sword by tinkerton · · Score: 2

      Too complicated. Simpler
      - implement system for police to take control over any vehicle so thieves and terrorists will no longer be able to flee and we'll finally be safe from bad people.
      - then get an authorization key and access the system. Also, the only people overriding the external access will be..

    6. Re:Double edged sword by r1348 · · Score: 2, Funny

      He doesn't believe in horses. They're leftist propaganda.

    7. Re:Double edged sword by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, but if you strive to make the world idiot-proof it sucks for everyone.

      We shouldn't react to events like this by compounding the loss of life with a loss of rights, loss of dignity and loss of humanity. Most Germans can still remember what that was like.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:Double edged sword by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      1. There have not been "hoards" of Muslim hoodlums entering Germany. Most of the refugees are actually fleeing Islamic terrorists.

      2. The guy had his asylum application processed in good time. The problem was they could not deport him because his country would not take him back.

      3. The falling is that the security services knew about him but didn't stop him.

      This does not warrant your extreme, xenophobic reaction.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Double edged sword by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is not a duck. Because all ducks are peaceful. It is probably Putin or alt-right, and don't underestimate fake news!

    10. Re:Double edged sword by John.Banister · · Score: 2

      How is a permanent backdoor into the operation of my vehicle any better an idea than a permanent backdoor into my security products? If it's there in every person's vehicle to be exploited, it's much more likely to be exploited by bad actors than by the police. Here's something simpler: .50 cal api rounds into the engine block. It's very straightforward and effective.

    11. Re:Double edged sword by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      Slitting the break lines does not work in a truck.

      Trucks have a breaking system that uses pressured air to keep the breaks open.

      If you cut a line, the air pressure vanishes imediatly and the breaks close and the truck stops.

      I guess you have heared the puffs and whistles when a truck starts moving, this is the air preassure opening the breaks.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    12. Re:Double edged sword by ravenshrike · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, it's good to know that in the event of a zombie apocalypse Europe will be completely screwed because none of their large vehicles will be able to plow through the zombie hordes or parked cars.

    13. Re:Double edged sword by Cassini2 · · Score: 2

      Most brake's can't stop the engine. That's why modern engine's have engine-brake interlocks. Engine power is reduced when the brake pedal is pushed.

      I had an old pickup with a stuck gas-pedal. The brakes were completely unable to stop the engine. Luckily, it was in winter, and the truck was on ice. The truck went forward until the front tires hit pavement, and then I had time to experiment. It was a rear-wheel drive vehicle and the rear set of brakes were unable to stop the rear-wheels from spinning.

    14. Re: Double edged sword by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Do you really think forcibly kicking someone out of a plane with a parachute over another country is a good idea?

      You would need to violate their airspace. It would breach human rights laws in the EU. That country might retaliate. Even if you were enough of a dick to actually try it, it wouldn't work.

      Anyway, if you want people to leave, a lot of natives are leaving the UK now due to Brexit and xenophobia. We are screwed anyway, robots will take those jobs if immigrants don't.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re:Double edged sword by Stan92057 · · Score: 2

      "Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-) "Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216) If you should die or be slain in the cause of God, His forgiveness and His mercy would surely be better than all the riches..." (Surah 3:156-) "Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-) "Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-) "Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-) Hmm your bible says different..why is that ?

      "Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73) "Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-) "Muhammad is God's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another." (Surah 48:29) "Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-) "...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)

      --
      Jack of all trades,master of none
    16. Re:Double edged sword by Dare+nMc · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sorry boss, despite your arrogance and confidence, your more wrong than right. I have done SAE brake certifications for off and on road vehicles. Most vehicles probably could not be brought to a complete stop from speed if they engine was at full power by brakes alone. The 2 problem are: 1) the brakes do not have sufficient cooling, the engine/transmission have much better cooling, and thus can produce power for a longer time period. Most brakes cannot sustain high power for more than a minute before fading, and will eventually fail all together. Also (for most vehicles) the brakes do not have the same mechanical advantage, since they are at the wheels, and do not have a gear reduction. They apply a fixed maximum torque, at 60 MPH my pickups brakes could produce 800 HP in braking force, but at 10 MPH that would be closer to 100 HP. My trucks engine can easily produce 250 HP at the rear wheels, down to about 5 mph, due to it having real low gearing for towing. If in my pickup the brakes came on full at 70 mph at full throttle, it would take a fairly long stop to get down to 15- 25 mph or so before they would equallize, until the brakes faded and failed, then It would accelerate again. This balance will vary widely based on the power and gearing of the vehicle, but most cars would be pretty iffy on if they could be brought to a complete stop, almost all would slow to fairly slow speed though. Of course at these low speeds, it wouldn't take much outside force to stop the vehicle.

  2. no double edged sword by aepervius · · Score: 2

    i don't see any double edged sword : you can get a vehicle to accelerate without braking with a stone and a bit of tape, and "ignore collision" is the default mode without that system. But the problem would not be to accelerate without a driver, the problem would be to drive at all. You would need to remote control the vehicle, a much harder problem. Even if you used a driver-less car you would need to change the software to bypass all securities. Needless to say, it is much easier terror wise to get a cheap drone, attach 500 kg of remotely detonated plastic, and use that, you got remote control together with a camera built in.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  3. Re:what, wait a second by Sique · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After you already hit something? What would you win by not hitting the brakes? People rear ending you still have their airbags and seatbelts and crumple zones, which will protect them from the worst. People in front of you don't. So breaking and getting some 40 ton heap of steel into stillstand as soon as possible once it is out of control (and because it hit something, there is enough proof to call it out of control) is in any case better than let it run to save the people driving to close behind it a few bucks by keeping their cars undamaged.

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  4. Re:SubjectIsSubject by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Quran (5:51) - "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people."

    And I'm pretty sure that the Old Testament says that kids who sass their parents should be put to death. Not to mention the large number of "abominations" outside of being gay that are routinely ignored in Leviticus.

    You are comparing a book that is routinely ignored with a book that is routinely followed.

    --
    I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  5. Re:SubjectIsSubject by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Completely false. Christians account for over 50 million Germans vs 21 million unaffiliated.

    http://www.pewforum.org/2015/04/02/religious-projection-table/

    Please quit spreading lies.

  6. Re:what, wait a second by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

    So, ... this system reduces the number of rear end collisions by slamming on the breaks after it hits something?

    It's probably designed to prevent issues of runaway trucks where the driver is in someway incapacitated (asleep, passed out, heart attack, whatever) or simply inattentive. It applies after the first strike to keep from plowing on down the road or pushing the first car it hit into the car in front and cascading on down the road.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  7. Re:SubjectIsSubject by Kierthos · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm pretty sure both books are routinely ignored.

    I went to school with a number of Muslim students. They didn't attack me, or condemn me, or anything like that. I was actually in a study group with a couple of them for one semester. And at least one of them routinely ignored the Koran's prohibition on drinking.

    I worked with at least one Muslim co-worker at my last job. He didn't attack me, or condemn me, or anything like that. I had a number of Muslim customers (including at least one who converted to Islam). None of them attacked me, or condemned me, or anything like that.

    There are an estimated 3.3 million Muslims living in the U.S. I think we would have noticed if most of them were routinely attacking Christians.

    It is not the religion, per se, that is the problem. It is fundamentalists or extremists who claim to be part of the religion that are the problem.

    --
    Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
  8. Re:SubjectIsSubject by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    It is not the religion, per se, that is the problem. It is fundamentalists or extremists who claim to be part of the religion that are the problem.

    I think we can safely say that it is both. Idiots are a problem, and people who get them worked up to do stupid things in the name of religion are also a problem. Take away that excuse and they'll have many less takers.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. Re:You gave Trump's plan by 91degrees · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Was that before or after he called all Mexicans criminals

    He didn't.

    But hey, fake news is only fake when we disagree with it, right.

  10. terrorism and intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Fortunately you have to be kind of an idiot to want to murder people like this anyway.

    There's some evidence to suggest otherwise:

    Which academic pursuit has been the most prevalent among Islamic jihadis?

    It’s not the oddest question to come up at a dinner party, especially at the University of Oxford. But when it comes up between a Middle East expert and a sociologist, idle talk yields to a quest for data. That’s how political scientist Steffen Hertog and sociology professor Diego Gambetta soon found themselves poring through records of 404 people from 30 countries engaged in political violence between 2005 and 2007. Their answer? Engineering.

    Of the 178 whose academic focus could be ascertained, 44 percent of those were engineers—most of them in electrical engineering, civil engineering, and computer studies. The next-largest group, Islamic studies, had fewer than half as many, at 19 percent [see table below, ”Fields of Study”].

    * http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/security/extremist-engineers

  11. Re:You gave Trump's plan by ITRambo · · Score: 3, Informative

    Mexican's aren't converting or killing other people to make them Mexicans. Islamist's do this, are instructed to do this in their "holy" book. Salman Rushdee was correct. The Koran is the satanic verses. Only evil would do what the insane and difficult to read Koran would have you do. Keep them in their own lands to eternally fight and kill each other over which Islamist faction is the "correct" one.

  12. Re:You gave Trump's plan by theArtificial · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here's a story from the anointed Huffington Post claiming 80% of migrants are raped coming to the US. That's a pretty alarming figure. Here's another story on it by Fusion. Here's an Amnesty international story citing health care professionals claiming 6 out of 10 are abused.

    There already is legal precedent: 8 U.S. Code 1182 - Inadmissible aliens clause f Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President. If you don't believe in western values don't come to the west. Show us a democratic country that is majority Muslim. Islam is more than a religion, what should be addressed upon entry is a question about supporting Sharia law. It's incompatible with western values. How do other religions work in Muslim majority countries? How do they treat women or gays? Why do you feel it is superior to the US present stance?

    --
    Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
  13. Re:irresponsible journalism by foxalopex · · Score: 2

    Sort of, from what I've seen it's pretty hard to prevent attacks especially if the attacker is suicidal. It seems that a lot of these folks use the easiest least common denominator way of doing attacks. Can't get a gun, use a pressure cooker. Can't even get that use a truck... In the grand scheme of things a lot of these folks are trying to get publicity on the news which the media does indirectly help but I don't see how that will ever change. Well unless we want the government to start covering up all incidents as "accidents".

  14. Re:You gave Trump's plan by Solandri · · Score: 2

    He was referring to illegal immigrants. Unfortunately, the press as a whole - the ones going on the whole tirade about "fake" news - has decided to call them "undocumented" immigrants. Which is probably what led to your confusion since most people are unfamiliar with that word in this context, so tend to ignore it. (Which is probably why the press is doing it - to try to shape policy by confusing people into conflating illegal immigrants with legal immigrants. It worked on you.)

    There's a lot of reasons to dislike Trump, but this isn't one of them. If you're upset about it, direct your anger at the press which intentionally misled you. I'm wondering why people making unauthorized withdrawls at the bank and unlicensed executioners aren't getting the same treatment from them.

  15. Re:You gave Trump's plan by lgw · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The difference is: the Bible has a New Testament. It's primary message? Scripture can be hard to interpret, so if you think it's telling you to hurt someone, that's how you know you're reading it wrong. That Jesus guy just wouldn't shut up about this: turn the other cheek, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, etc., etc.

    The Koran desperately needs its own New Testament, just as Islam desperately needs it's own Reformation. That can only happen from within, of course, but we should recognize it for what it is.

    Just in 2016 there were 2455 Islamic attacks in 60 countries, in which 21152 people were killed and 26499 injured. If that number surprises you, it's because the western press doesn't care to report attacks without western victims. Your false equivalence is obvious and foolish.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  16. Re:You gave Trump's plan by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

    The difference is: the Bible has a New Testament. It's primary message? Scripture can be hard to interpret, so if you think it's telling you to hurt someone, that's how you know you're reading it wrong. That Jesus guy just wouldn't shut up about this: turn the other cheek, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, etc., etc.

    The Koran desperately needs its own New Testament, just as Islam desperately needs it's own Reformation. That can only happen from within, of course, but we should recognize it for what it is.

    Just in 2016 there were 2455 Islamic attacks in 60 countries, in which 21152 people were killed and 26499 injured. If that number surprises you, it's because the western press doesn't care to report attacks without western victims. Your false equivalence is obvious and foolish.

    If all those rules of the OT aren't important, then why did the Council of Nicaea and subsequent generations of scholars and clergy leave them in there? The OT is still part of the Bible, so by choosing not to follow those rules you are proving my point that both religions pick and choose (and different followers of the religions choose differently than others) which to follow. As for Jesus saying turn the other cheek, you are correct. But simply read the Wikipedia page on the Bible and Violence and you will see how Christians have still chose to interpret the Bible as advocating violence, and the page on Christianity and violence is also enlightening.

    Personally, I am of the opinion that, as Islam is roughly 600 years newer than Christianity, if we look at what the Chrsitian world was like 600 years ago there are a lot of parallels between Christianity then and Islam now. Christianity had its reformation which left it a much less violent and (as it has modernized) more tolerant religion (there is of course a lot of intolerance left). Islam has the dual issue of not having gone through a reformation and being judged on modern terms while still in it's ancient form. The problem is that change has to come from within and it has to come organically, it can't be forced. And right now I don't see any indications of anything that could cause that change. Maybe if the Mosul Dam collapses and kills hundreds of thousands of Iraqis and displaces millions more it may be apocalyptic enough and attributable to ISIS (and therefore extremist Islam) that it might trigger a reformation or a rise of moderate Islam, but even that is a bit of a stretch.

    --
    The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil