What's Happening As The University of California Tries To Outsource IT Jobs To India (pressreader.com)

Long-time Slashdot reader Nova Express shares an epic column by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Michael Hiltzik. It details what's happening now as the University of California tries to outsources dozens of IT jobs -- about 20% of their IT workforce -- by February 28th. Some of the highlights:

• The CEO of UCSF's Medical Center says he expects their security to be at least as good as it is now, but acknowledges "there are no guarantees."
• Nine workers have filed a complaint with the state's Department of Fair Employment and Housing arguing they're facing discrimination.
• California Senator Feinstein is already complaining that the university is tapping $8.5 billion in federal funding "to replace Californian IT workers with foreign workers or labor performed abroad."
• Representative Zoe Lofgren (from a district in Silicon Valley) is arguing that the university "is training software engineers at the same time they're outsourcing their own software engineers. What message are they sending their own students?"
• 57-year-old sys-admin Kurt Ho says his replacement spent just two days with him, then "told me he would go back to India and train his team, and would be sending me emails with questions."
• The university's actions will ultimately lower their annual $5.83 billion budget by just 0.1%.

Comments

This is a surprise?

[Anonymous Coward]

Universities have never been more than a bottom-line for-profit business that uses cult-like recruiting tactics and has absolutely no shame or loyalty to anything or anyone but themselves.

I hope this is becoming a bit clearer to everyone now, as in the past I've been ridiculed for blasting universities as money-driven cults.

They provide very little value in the modern world and should be used sparingly.

Re:This is a surprise?

[__aaclcg7560]

A University of California IT employee whose job is being outsourced to India recently wrote Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) for help. Feinstein's office sent back a letter ... and offered the worker no assistance.

If you send a letter to the Washington, D.C., office, you will get back a form letter. If you send a letter to the local or state office, you will get personal response (most of the time). If you want to be effective in politics, it starts at the grassroots.

Re:This is a surprise?

[Goldsmith]

I wouldn't be as... caustic in my critique of universities as the OP, but I can definitely understand the sentiment.

I think the problem is that many people think that universities should all act like non-profit educational institutions. In reality, the "best" universities act like (for-profit) partnerships performing professional research services, and they are very, very good at this. Certainly, this is where the majority of UC funding comes from.

If you paid for an undergrad degree at a research institution, and didn't understand that you should have been working in some famous professor's lab to actually get your education, you're going to be pretty upset when you get out.

Re:This is a surprise?

[SpaghettiPattern]

...and the key stakeholders in the universities will enjoy their kickbacks and high end dinners.

With corruption the return of invested capital is humongous. Corrupt idiots selling out for a diner and the feeling of being privileged.

Re:This is a surprise?

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

That's part of the shuffle going on here. First, they bring in the immigrants to train in California. Some might stay. The University is still tweaking the plan IRT. Some Indians are going back to India to train "their own teams". Some might stay here. So, it's both. No one seemed to notice that it's ONE GUY in the US, and will become a WHOLE TEAM in India.

This is going to be a disaster. You can't learn a system in two days. Even with perfect documentation, you need way more time. This isn't some coding project. The sys admin mention probably manages dozens of undocumented systems. Stuff will work for a while, but after the first power outage, time change, etc...someone4 is going to be calling these guys up constantly getting information from them for the rest of their lives.

Re:This is a surprise?

[Bongo]

If you paid for an undergrad degree at a research institution, and didn't understand that you should have been working in some famous professor's lab to actually get your education, you're going to be pretty upset when you get out.

And didn't understand... because someone should have taught you that when you were 14, so this basically blames the schools for not properly educating kids about the ways of the world. Fair enough.

I'd suggest it goes a little further though. The left has a bias or belief that problems are the fault of society, whereas the right tends to bias to the belief that problems are the fault of the individual. Now, the problem is that, the left tends to be more associated with education (because if society and its institutions are the problem, then those are the institutions which need to be improved, and education needs to be improved). So the left is more idealistic about the role of education. See it is implicit. But what you're saying is, from more of a right wing point of view, hey nobody should be an idiot, or ignorant, to the fact that the world is competitive and selfish place, and that individuals have to learn to handle this, mostly via self control and character building and smarts (so don't come crying when you become a victim).

And that, I think, is fair enough, as there is no real difference between the "individual" and "society", as ideological categories, because we are always both, we are all individuals and we all live in society and are part of social institutions. Individuals have agency. Groups have communion. And we always act and function in both. So the problems are often found in both places. (A way forward for politics is to become both left and right wing).

So I would just add that, I agree in the sense that, our society needs to spend more time acclimatising kids to "how the world works", as by nature, humans are both competitive and cooperative. And we need to be educated to understand when and where each one is the dominant driver. So I do agree, it is right to tell people that they need to wise up about American universities. But I wouldn't blame kids for not knowing that already, if they haven't been taught.

Re:This is a surprise?

[execthis]

Universities have never been more than a bottom-line for-profit business that uses cult-like recruiting tactics and has absolutely no shame or loyalty to anything or anyone but themselves.

Not all. I take courses at an urban community college and these classes are inexpensive and high quality. The college offers 2-year associate degrees to many people who would otherwise find it difficult to get any degree, as well as offering numerous certificates and types of training, not to mention cultural and artistic enrichment which are also very important.

They are always struggling financially but they serve a vital function in the community.

Awesome

[barrywalker]

Now your IT department will be trying to fleece the faculty and students with scam phone calls about how their computers are infected with viruses.

Bravo, nitwits.

Re:Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

They are just doing the needful on priority and at the earliest. They will revert when complete.

Re:Awesome

[swb]

What happens when Indian IT people in the US get scam computer virus calls from India? Does it create some kind of singularity that causes both of them to move to another dimension?

Or is it more like:

"I am calling from the Microsoft support center and I wish to tell you your computer has a virus"

"Nilesh? What are you doing? I thought you were going to work in the civil service section your family controls."

"Premal, since Modi has withdrawn the large rupee notes my uncle can no longer give me a job in the civil service and I must work at the call center and to tell you your computer has a virus."

Re: Awesome

[saloomy]

The time when we were your bosses has come and gone. We replaced you guys with shell scripts and automation ages ago.

Automatic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't be any discussion about this. If a UNIVERSITY is outsourcing. They should instantly lose all federal and state funding.

Wanna behave like a private company? Get treated like one. No taxpayer soup for you.

Re:Automatic.

[AuMatar]

More than that- this is a state university. Not a private one like Harvard. Its basically owned by the government. So its the government outsourcing these jobs.

Re:Automatic.

[Anonymous Coward]

I used to be an H1B, and this is indeed inexcusable. It's not even just about jobs lost, but what happened to matters such as national pride and the associated symbolism? If the universities of the country - the institutions that educate and train workers for its industries - are refusing to hire those very workers to perform jobs that the universities need, that says a lot about either the usefulness of the degrees that they teach, or the quality of their education. If they're claiming that Indian workers (with Indian degrees) are really "good enough", why even bother with expensive American education? And make no mistake, it's not just a message for the citizens; people abroad will notice as well.

Re:Automatic.

[EmeraldBot]

So you want public money to be used to overpay govt employees instead of getting the best value for the money by using the lower cost private sector provider. No wonder taxes are so high in California.

That's also why California has beautiful national parks, expansive and well maintained roads, and is the center of no less than three major industries. Oklahoma has low taxes, and that's about all it has. What good is cheap if it's absolutely worthless?

Re:Automatic.

[EmeraldBot]

well maintained roads

What the hell have you been smoking?

If you think California's roads are bad, I advise you to try New Hampshire's sometime. So granite is the state that we still use gravel and dirt roads, and when there's any asphalt to be seen, it's 35 years old and has fissures the size of the Grand Canyon. And yes, I've lived in both of these states. I think it's fair to say that California has a well maintained road network for its size, and if we're talking about a low tax state like New Hampshire or Indiana, you'd realize the difference almost immediately.

Re:Automatic.

[orlanz]

As you can see from the responses you have gotten, most people can't explain it. Even if it is "obvious" to them, they should be adult enough to realize that there might be many visitors to this site that seriously have your question even if they believe you don't. They could have used this as an opportunity to explain their side, but instead did such a huge disservice by their replies.

Anyway, I personally don't have anything against hiring the most cost effective solution. Although I doubt it will be as good or ok as the business case suggests. In the end, the university will survive and move on.

What I DO have a problem with is the abuse of the H1-B system. A system that was designed to allow our companies to hire abroad when they can't find the talent locally. It isn't a system designed to drive costs down. I have rarely seen H1-B positions that I felt didn't have local talent. Probably 1/5. In this case, clearly, if the current employees have to train their replacements, then there is no question that there is a more suitable local talent than foreign.

If I had it my way, I wouldn't tie the H1-B visa to the company. 2 years in, the H1-B should belong to the employee to go where ever he feels his talent is most appreciated. If the company fires him after 11 months, the visa still belongs to them. The US could still limit the number of visas issued, and actively maintained. The employee would still need to maintain their visa by having employment 6 out of the last 12 months. I also don't think the permanent residency process be tied to the company. Companies shouldn't be allowed to petition that. Only the individual with backing from a US citizen should be able to.

Fix the H1-B system and we can talk about a fair playing field. Thou, I doubt many companies would be as enthusiastic about it.

Re:Automatic.

[swb]

From a capitalist perspective, they are selling a product ("an education") in which the very promise is vocational advancement. Yet their own actions demonstrate they are selling a product which doesn't actually do what it claims.

State Universities also exist outside the realm of profit and loss and were established to accomplish a specific social goal -- advancing the practical arts and sciences outside the realm of the traditional liberal arts education. By pushing their own jobs overseas they seem to be undermining that as well.

If they need to save money to meet their operating costs and income, then why not cut costs elsewhere? So many have huge investments in athletics which kind of appear to be paid for by a handful of top tier revenue sports, but at my local University the athletics facilities (a block-sized tennis facility) seem to exceed what could be considered reasonable spending associated with those sports and also fails to take into account for most state Universities' ability to use their quasi-government status for bonding to obtain money for athletic facilities average students will never use.

Plus you can't tell me that any state University in the US couldn't cut a whole laundry list of internal "programs" that mostly exist to create internal empires. And that's without even asking many political questions as to which of these programs are really advocacy programs designed to push ideological agendas.

Re:Automatic.

[Anonymous Coward]

Professor here. Universities also create those internal empires for business reasons: there surely is a lot of ideology in universities, but never underestimate the almighty dollar's ability to trump ideology. The biggest internal empires, and not coincidentally some of the biggest money-makers, are the housing and food domains. These are areas that most governments tend not to tread, but universities often require students to buy food and shelter from them for at least one year: the university, like a totalitarian state, creeps into every aspect of a student's life. The revenue from housing and food (both are now often outsourced to private dorm and catering companies) supposedly pays into the university's general funds. They also provide employment to students (RAs, cashiers, etc), as do many of the other internal empires (secretary in the office of multicultural baskwetweaving, etc), which satisfies a requirement that students work in order to receive tuition reduction. Hospitals are another major internal empire for big schools, and they are ginormous money-makers whose budget offices have, between the cushions of their waiting room couches, multiples of the funds available to the academic wing of the university. Finally, you have empires that exist to employ former students who got their PhDs and never got real jobs in academia or outside: here you have the Diversity Officers and Campus Liaison Officers and other vague titles that cover up how worthless some degrees are, because a bunch of unemployed basketweavers would look bad and reduce applications, which might hurt revenue. Law schools are getting famous for this - it's hard to make it in the world with a law degree nowadays, so some schools are hiring their graduates to avoid having to admit how few of them get real jobs. In the end, somewhere in all that, there are a few professors still, although mostly replaced by non-tenured, lower-paid adjuncts who make less money than an elementary school teacher despite being far more qualified and often teaching more students. The most obvious cost-cutting measure in place is the elimination of actual professorships by attrition - a retiring professor will be replaced by an adjunct with no hope of ever achieving the same pay rate. It's all about the money.

"lower their annual ... budget by just 0.1%"

[Nutria]

Working in IT, I'm not too thrilled by this, but that one statement shows a complete lack of thought.

To paraphrase not-Everett Dirksen, "A tenth of a percent here, a tenth of a percent there, pretty soon you're talking real savings."

Re:"lower their annual ... budget by just 0.1%"

[Steffan]

Until you realize that 0.1% on $5.83 billion is $58.3 million. That's not chump change.

0.1% of $5.83 Billion is actually $5.83 Million. Closer to chump change in a nearly-$6 Billion budget.

Re:"lower their annual ... budget by just 0.1%"

[ghoul]

Most times outsourcing is not done for saving costs (that just the excuse). its done because the current team has become too set in its ways and pissed off one too many administrator.

Will lower their budget? Nope

[maugle]

The university's actions will ultimately lower their annual $5.83 billion budget by just 0.1%.

It doesn't take a fortune teller to see how this will end. Anyone with experience with low-cost offshore replacements knows that after the painful transition and a slow degradation of IT performance (with all the slowness, bugs, and embarrassing security breaches that come with it), the fallout of the university's decision will ultimately cost a hell of a lot more to fix than what is saved up front.

Napolitano is the UC President?

[aaronb1138]

Color me shocked! Shocked I say. It blows my mind she has an entire history built around how amazing she is to hold so many high positions as a woman, but it doesn't take much work to see, it's a history of failures and exceptional levels of mediocrity. I don't know why the democratic party an their insiders keep backing her and getting her jobs.

What about globalism?

[Okian Warrior]

Shouldn't be any discussion about this. If a UNIVERSITY is outsourcing. They should instantly lose all federal and state funding.

Wanna behave like a private company? Get treated like one. No taxpayer soup for you.

It's a fine position, but how about the rest of the debate?

California was four-square against the recent election outcome, which was in large part *against* globalism. Lots and lots of supporters here and in the MSM were arguing the benefits of this sort of thing from every viewpoint. Some people lose their jobs, but the economy prospers overall. Those jobs are never coming back. We'll be losing all of them to AI anyway.

California is so much against the populist uprising that they are implementing sanctuary cities (and sanctuary universities), giving illegal immigrants drivers licenses and the ability to vote, and generally planning to oppose any new federal mandates and changes (such as deportation of illegals).

And yes, it's the California cities which are [politically] deep blue, while the rest is generally red.

So how does this position fit into the rest of the debate? How can one show outrage over this situation and still support the [generally accepted as] liberal Californian viewpoint which embraces globalism?

Schools are corporations too...

[__aaclcg7560]

Representative Zoe Lofgren (from a district in Silicon Valley) is arguing that the university "is training software engineers at the same time they're outsourcing their own software engineers. What message are they sending their own students?"

Same message as the law schools: "We're happy to take your money. If you can't find a job after you graduate, tough shit. You should have thought carefully about your major's future potential before taking on $100K in student loans."

So much Wrong with This

[wisnoskij]

Why is their budget bigger than most countries?
They will save 60 million dollars by outsourced 20% of the workforce? I have worked in IT in one of the highest internationally acclaimed universities, it was just 2 full time guys with 2 student helpers for 1/5th of the university. I really doubt that the total yearly salaries exceeded 200K.

Keeping a few thousand computers and a few server rooms running is really not that big of a job.

Re:Not by insults

[PopeRatzo]

Us Alt-Right nut faces don't generally insult the other side of the debate.

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/...

No way security is as good

[SuperKendall]

How can they say with a straight face that security will be "as good as it is now" when they have just introduced a massive attack vector into the system?

Along with the factor of "Oh network traffic from India is just fine, let that all pass right on through".

Glad I"m not on their payroll or enrolled as a student (to be more specific glad they don't have my SSN).

Re:No way security is as good

[dbIII]

Along with the factor of "Oh network traffic from India is just fine, let that all pass right on through".

Did you hear about the Australian online census failure?

One of the long string of fuckups as a consequence of going for a bargain basement IBM service was that the computer was administered from China and logs were sent to the US for performance analysis. Of course they didn't tell their customer this.
The system crumbled under the load of millions of people logging in at once (due to the advertising of "census night" instead of any time over a few weeks, which is how estimated load had been calculated), IBM were not answering the calls at night so the spooks were called in to see if that site hired by the government was being hacked. The spooks found a bit of traffic from China (the system administrators at work on other virtual machines on the same host - discount plan remember) and a continuous stream of data going to the USA (performance logging). GeoIP blocking was put in place which locked the sysadmins out, the thing fell over completely under the load and the final consequence was the site being down for well over a week. Officials went on TV saying it was hacked by Chinese and US hackers but that was bullshit, they had just fucked up and didn't put a system in place that could cope with the load.

The point? Currently the situation is network traffic from China, from people working from home, is seen to be fine in a lot of cases let alone traffic from India.
Those massive attack vectors are already there and that's part of the reason we are neck deep in a malware swamp.
Adding to it is of course as stupid as you suggest.

Pot Outsource Kettle

[orin]

Slashdot on manufacturing jobs being sent offshore: "Suck it up and smell the future. You are just like the buggy whip manufacturers!"
Slashdot on IT jobs being sent offshore: "This Is An Outrage!!!!!"

OT - Re:Schools are corporations too...

[grep -v '.*' *]

It's over. Mr. Trump is someone else's POTUS. But not mine.

Sorry to inform you, if you're a citizen of the US, then he's gong to be your president unless something extraordinary happens. Period, full stop, the end. You might not have voted for him, you might hate his guts and politics and wish him ill, and until he takes to oath of office he ISN'T your president -- but once he does, he is.

*I* didn't vote for Obama and didn't like a lot of things that he did (and didn't do.) But looks like his hopey changie thing is finally working itself out.

Then again, if you really don't want him to be your president, you can always renounce your U.S. citizenship and pick exactly who you'd like. Once, anyway. I suggest you move to Canada like these people AREN'T. Or you could join Cher, I'm sure she's going to be lonely on (in?) Jupiter.

And by the way, I'm curious: are you on either coast? I'm in flyover country. (Well actually not, I'm not even that close to the aerial lanes.)

The #1 reason I think this is a dumb move:

[sabbede]

It's a university. If they want cheap labor, they have it right there in the dorms. The only jobs that would make any sense to outsource are in support, and I know from personal experience that students will do those jobs for very little. Hell, pick a job and there are going to be dozens of students that would leap at the chance for some real-worldish experience.

Outsourcing IT jobs is going to reduce opportunities for financial aid and job training for the students; undermining the basic mission of universities. Dumb move UC.