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New FCC Report Says AT&T and Verizon Zero-Rating Violates Net Neutrality (theverge.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Verge: Just a week and a half before he is set to leave office, FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler has issued a new report stating that the zero-rated video services offered by ATT and Verizon may violate the FCC's Open Internet Order. Assembled by the FCC's Wireless Telecommunications Bureau, the report focuses on sponsored data programs, which allow companies to pay carriers to exempt exempt their data from customers' data caps. According to the report, many of those packages simply aren't playing fair. "While observing that ATT provided incomplete responses to staff inquires," Wheeler wrote to Senators, "the report states that the limited information available supports a conclusion that ATT offers Sponsored Data to third-party content providers at terms and conditions that are effectively less favorable than those it offers to its affiliate, DirecTV." In theory, sponsored data should be an even playing field, with providers bearing the costs and making the same charges regardless of who's footing the bill. But according to the report, ATT treats the DirectTV partnership very differently from an unaffiliated sponsored data system, giving the service a strong advantage over competitors. "ATT appears to view the network cost of Sponsored Data for DIRECTV Now as effectively de minimis," the report concludes. While ATT still bears some cost for all that free traffic, it's small enough that the carrier doesn't seem to care. The report raises similar concerns regarding Verizon's Go90 program, although it concludes Verizon's program may be less damaging. Notably, the letter does not raise the same concerns about T-Mobile's BingeOn video deal, since it "charges all edge providers the same zero rate for participating."

74 comments

  1. A little late by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 4, Insightful

    coming to this conclusion isn't it ?

    Considering the new administration may or may not wish to agree with your assessment.
    Where was this brilliant insight back when they started behavior ?

    It's lovely you all think it's a violation now, but there may be nothing you can do about it at this point.

    Good Job :|

    1. Re: A little late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering the new administration may or may not wish to agree with your assessment.

      Either they do the right thing or they don't. Trump could immediately pardon any number of criminals. This is not news.

      Where was this brilliant insight back when they started behavior ?
      It's lovely you all think it's a violation now, but there may be nothing you can do about it at this?

      Yeah, why not a summary execution? Trump only thinks he can raise the dead.

      A proper administration would crush it's enemies, drive them before it, and listen to the lamentations of their women.

    2. Re:A little late by Maritz · · Score: 3

      Lots of Trump fans on this site, presumably they're cool with having crappy connections to Netflix because Netflix haven't bribed their ISP sufficiently. You're headed for a brave new world where websites have to pay your ISP to access you, in addition to you paying your ISP.

      Enjoy it.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    3. Re:A little late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But nobody has a crappy connection to netflix. https://ispspeedindex.netflix.com/country/us/

    4. Re:A little late by lgw · · Score: 0

      I see progressives are making is past denial, and into anger. Good, that's progress.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:A little late by sabri · · Score: 1

      You're headed for a brave new world where websites have to pay your ISP to access you, in addition to you paying your ISP.

      I'd rather have that world, than a world where big government gets to dictate what I can and cannot do on my own privately owned network.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    6. Re:A little late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather have that world, than a world where big government gets to dictate what I can and cannot do on my own privately owned network.

      It's almost cute the way you think...

      You are up for an awakening, and it will not be pretty.

  2. Bureaucracy by JBMcB · · Score: 1, Informative

    I'm surprised they acted as fast as they did. Government bureaucracy isn't known for speed or efficiency.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:Bureaucracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      It's because Obama's term is coming to an end. So that means, loads of bullshit and lots of monkey wrenches thrown into Trumps new selections because Clinton didn't win. People can whine over it all they want, but if Clinton had won we wouldn't even be having this discussion right now. And this entire thing would still be sitting in limbo.

      If Clinton had won, you would be fighting in Trump's revolutionary army and decrying the continued Democratic tyranny. Which ok, would amount to you trolling on the Internet some more, so no, we would be having this discussion, and you'd be doing the same things as you are now.

      Whining. Whining. Whining.

      Couldn't Trump find a non-racist attorney general candidate? Couldn't Trump find a candidate for secretary of state who knew what a war crime was? Couldn't Trump find a way to not create more conflicts of interest?

    2. Re:Bureaucracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless they want money. If it something for the good..It'll take months or years.

    3. Re:Bureaucracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm surprised they acted as fast as they did. Government bureaucracy isn't known for speed or efficiency.

      The DirecTV version has been coming around for about a year now.

      The Verizon version has been around since 2015 ... if you knew where to look for it.

      So taking a year to respond is actually pretty slow in my "book".

    4. Re:Bureaucracy by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      If Clinton had won, you would be fighting in Trump's revolutionary army and decrying the continued Democratic tyranny. Which ok, would amount to you trolling on the Internet some more, so no, we would be having this discussion, and you'd be doing the same things as you are now.

      Funny. Because that sure didn't happen when Obama won, but the left were right there back when Bush Jr., was elected for a second term screaming that they should violently oppose him. And gee, look again...it's the left doing exactly the same thing. But oh boy, let's look at Obama's decisions shall we? A head of the DoJ that refuses to enforce immigration law, and is now in the running to defend criminal illegals. Very progressive, much law and order!

      Couldn't Trump find a non-racist attorney general candidate? Couldn't Trump find a candidate for secretary of state who knew what a war crime was? Couldn't Trump find a way to not create more conflicts of interest?

      You mean the joke? Did you actually read/watch what he said. I guess not, that's what happens when you let the media lie to you. Yep, he's so racist he's prosecuted KKK members. Now, let's move on to that "war crime" bit. Smart move. You know why? Because if he didn't answer the way he did, he would have let every nut with an axe to grind go after the government. Starting right at the top with the previous Obama administration which decided drone strikes in sovereign countries that they weren't at war with was a good idea. And let's move onto the "conflicts of interest" you mean like donating all the money he gets from his hotel chain to the US treasury types of conflict of interest?

      Maybe you should go listen to buzzfeed a bit more. I hear they might jump on a story after 6mo of it being fished around. I suggest writing about how Obama's wife is really a man and he's the one who takes it up the ass. It was also recorded and the Saudi's have compromising evidence of it.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    5. Re:Bureaucracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Clinton had won, you would be fighting in Trump's revolutionary army and decrying the continued Democratic tyranny. Which ok, would amount to you trolling on the Internet some more, so no, we would be having this discussion, and you'd be doing the same things as you are now.

      Funny. Because that sure didn't happen when Obama won, but the left were right there back when Bush Jr., was elected for a second term screaming that they should violently oppose him.

      Nope, it's confirmed that there were internet trolls then. Some continue to this day.

      2012 also had plenty. Including a special one you may know.

      And gee, look again...it's the left doing exactly the same thing.

      Yes, yes, pity you, because the Left surely is the one making you the victim, you internet troll you. Poor you. Why do you lie? Do you think everybody else is too dumb to spot your bullshit?

      When Trump himself jumped into it with vigor, that's a losing game.

      But oh boy, let's look at Obama's decisions shall we? A head of the DoJ that refuses to enforce immigration law, and is now in the running to defend criminal illegals. Very progressive, much law and order!

      Even Donald Trump admitted that Obama had deported millions. Strangely he had no problem lying about it otherwise. Just like you.

      Couldn't Trump find a non-racist attorney general candidate? Couldn't Trump find a candidate for secretary of state who knew what a war crime was? Couldn't Trump find a way to not create more conflicts of interest?

      You mean the joke? Did you actually read/watch what he said. I guess not, that's what happens when you let the media lie to you. Yep, he's so racist he's prosecuted KKK members.

      Oh goodness, he's not so stupid he can claim that the KKK is a perfectly normal civil organization. But he's stupid enough to crack jokes about them. Well, that's not a point in his favor, nor is his position on marijuana, which remains opposed to legalization. Nor the failure to list his failed judicial nomination. Or the other things he mysteriously left out.

      But I guess it's too bad there's plenty of other things to know about Jeff Sessions.

      Really, couldn't Trump find ANYBODY else?

      Now, let's move on to that "war crime" bit. Smart move. You know why?

      Because you aren't thinking, and believe being stupid enough not to condemn actual war crimes because of some carefully inculcated desire to be legally scot-free equivocator is a good thing?

      It's dumb. Dumb-ass stupid shit that would get you worked up into a frenzy if it were the other side saying it, but when it's yours, well, you just think it's the greatest thing ever.

      Because if he didn't answer the way he did, he would have let every nut with an axe to grind go after the government.

      They already do. What's your point? That we should keep doing the things that are fucking dumb?

      Starting right at the top with the previous Obama ad

  3. Just get the memo already: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Capitalism not working. Once the players are big enough to buy thugs, laws and presidents, capitalism will just devour the very substrate it thrives on.

    Capitalism as *one of the driving forces* of society is OK, mind you. As the *only* driving force (as whe've practically had for the last ~30-40 years), it's akin to cancer: ater a wild and nearly exponential growth, it will, in the end, kill its host (and thus itself).

    1. Re:Just get the memo already: by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Sad but true.

    2. Re:Just get the memo already: by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We need a separation of business and state.

      But seeing how well that separation of church and state worked, I'd rather not hold my breath.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:Just get the memo already: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, right, that damn progressive Fox News. Bastards!

    4. Re:Just get the memo already: by kenh · · Score: 1

      But seeing how well that separation of church and state worked, I'd rather not hold my breath.

      Are you talking about the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment or the Thomas Jefferson Letter to the Danbury Bishops?

      If it's the former, I'm not aware the Federal Government established a National Religion...

      If it's the latter, Jefferson himself allowed that individual states could keep their state-sponsored religions, that the federal government would not create a national religion.

      Jefferson's letter is the only source of the phrase "separation of church and state" and as a private letter is not a binding legal document.

      --
      Ken
    5. Re:Just get the memo already: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And CNN directly colluding with the DNC is fake news I take it? Bastards!

    6. Re:Just get the memo already: by Maritz · · Score: 1

      But seeing how entrenched the press is with the democrat party, I'd rather not hold my breath.

      The thing is, you'd say that anyway. Wouldn't you.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    7. Re:Just get the memo already: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      ...so you really are deaf, dumb, blind and stupid... the cult of christianity has been jamming it's mythology down everyone's throat since before this country existed. It's thanks to the foresight of folks like Jefferson that we aren't totally under the thumb of the christians and their version of sharia law (but only just barely).

      The reason the christians are so pissed at the muslims is that they have what the christians so desperately want, total domination in their sphere of influence. The funny thing is christians had that during the, so called, holy roman empire and then they lost it when mankind started to actually think a little. I suppose that is why the christians are so pissed at the catholics these days. I expect we would still have war and devastation without religion, but at least then it would hopefully be for something real instead of imaginary.

    8. Re:Just get the memo already: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like a true bum.

    9. Re:Just get the memo already: by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

      So, when did Congress pass laws establishing a national religion? What you are speaking of is that all religions, including Christianity, are allowed to freely practice their religion. Would you rather live in a country where religious are not free to practice their religion? Feel free to move to China than if that is what you want.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    10. Re:Just get the memo already: by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about reality.

      Show me one, ONE SINGLE politician in the US that doesn't somehow invoke his god in every other speech. Or in every speech when it's election time.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Re:ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is monopolistic and anti-competitive, much like the rest of the broadcast industry. For some reason these jackoffs just keep coming back to building their monopoly towers, and the government lets them. They all need to be broken up into 8-10 companies apiece.

  5. No worries mate... by wbr1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The Trumperor will fix it with removal of regulation. Then no one will care! We will be busy getting fucked - more than we currently are. Remember kids, getting fucked is fun!

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:No worries mate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Trumperor will fix it with removal of regulation. Then no one will care! We will be busy getting fucked - more than we currently are. Remember kids, getting fucked is fun!

      Cricket Wireless only bitched about me using them with a real hotspot for my mom's internet (which doesn't really take that much) after the dear leader was elected. Prior to that I assumed the AT&T subsidiary was avoiding bitching because they weren't supposed to under net neutrality. I changed to T-Mobile.

      Cell phone plans need to stop telling you what you do with your data. Unlimited already seems gone, but that is probably reasonable as the bandwidth is more limited than land lines. They can provide different buckets for different times or something along those lines, but saying you have more data you can only use on your phone is beyond stupid. It is based on the idea that most people just can't use that data on their phone anyway so they can sell more by advertising when they are unwilling to actually deliver.

      Regulations that prevent companies from imposing regulations are not in themselves a bad thing. It is just putting into law to stop acting like an arse. On T-Mobile my Mom get's to use Netflix's via binge on, and it does seem to be open to all, plus they are not making money on it, so I guess that is fair game. I'm still not sure about that. AT&T's and similar are obviously not since they are directly benefiting themselves. In other words if any video provider could use it then it is somewhat fair, but limiting to only companies they own. No, that is not fair, and yes the government does sometimes have to add rules to insure a fair and equitable marketplace.

    2. Re:No worries mate... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Remember kids, getting fucked is fun!

      Who let the priest in?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re:No worries mate... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only autocrats here are the outgoing head of the FCC and his defacto boss BHO. They had no legal authority to enact "net neutrality" BS in the first place.

  6. Slashdot's editorial review by BenJeremy · · Score: 1

    ...is exempt exempt from checking the content of this summary.

  7. Re: ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by Entrope · · Score: 1

    AT&T (or their subsidiary) does charge customers for DirecTV streaming, though. Do you have to pay extra to call tech support in the first place?

  8. Re:ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

    Except in this case they have the power to force competitors to pay more.
    It's like them making their own tech support phoneline free while at the same time being able to charge money for using competitor's tech support phonelines.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  9. Net neutrality will be dead in one week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is good news to me. I own AT&T stock.

    1. Re:Net neutrality will be dead in one week by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Good news to me, too, I don't live in the US and when they try it with us we can point and say "Look what it did to the country that pretty much invented the internet!"

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Net neutrality will be dead in one week by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      Thank goodness.

      I, for one, welcome our new corporate overlords.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  10. Re: ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We're not talking about the new directv now service or whatever it's called. They are talking about using the stand alone directv app to stream content outside your home without the separate subscription and AT&T exempting the data use for that.

  11. Re:ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not sure why you think it's OK for the government to tell private companies how to price their products. The founding fathers would be aghast that it's come to this.

  12. Abuse the unlimited data caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Data over cell phone towers is cheaper than data over cable, or wifi. So, if at&t and verizon want to give away free cell phone data, I say grab as much as you can. I want to see DSL companies extorting low data websites, not data hogs like Netflix, for money before I support 'net neutrality'. I will have to get my brother to switch to T-mobile for unlimited youtube.

    1. Re:Abuse the unlimited data caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Nope 100% wrong

      The cost of data over cable( copper or fiber) is effectively zero, the only costs are in supplying the cable in the first place ( and replacing it once every 100yrs or so, it doesn't exactly wear out). power costs are negligible

      of course this is very different from what you are charged.

      Data over cell costs more as the data takes power to transmit.

    2. Re:Abuse the unlimited data caps by sabri · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nope 100% wrong

      The cost of data over cable( copper or fiber) is effectively zero, the only costs are in supplying the cable in the first place ( and replacing it once every 100yrs or so, it doesn't exactly wear out). power costs are negligible

      Nope 100% wrong.

      Not only are you wrong, you are an idiot for posting this. Putting fiber in the ground is very expensive. Fixing fiber that has been broken is very expensive. Putting fiber in the ocean for transcontinental links is not just very expensive, it costs massive amounts of money.

      And now you have only the cabling. You don't have any DWDM gear, routers, switches and the associated network engineers to operate them.

      Data over cable is not zero. The only difference between wireless and wired internet access is the last mile, and the mobility aspect of it. As cellular technology evolves, it enables more and more bandwidth per user.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    3. Re:Abuse the unlimited data caps by Striek · · Score: 1

      Assume you're right (you're not, but humour me...) - data, once the cabling is laid, costs nothing to transmit.

      You happily saturate every link you have, and every upstream link as well, because of course, it's free, right?

      Now I come along and offer to pay whoever gave you the link some amount of money - let's say $1000/mo. So they give me the link instead of you.

      Now, if you want to use that link again, you'll have to beat my $1000/mo. So I guess it's no longer free to you - it will cost you at least as much as I am willing to pay for it.

      Idiot.

      --
      "Government is like fire; a handy servant, but a dangerous master." -- George Washington
    4. Re:Abuse the unlimited data caps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You missed the point entirely and are incorrect.

      All the stuff you described are installation which is one and done and the maintenance costs which are actually rather low. The actual costs of distribution of the data is zero compared to not doing so. Virtually all the costs of the service are fixed costs regardless of bandwidth used whether they use 10% of the bandwidth or 95% of it.

      Those initial startup costs are huge which is why it creates a near impossible barrier of entry into a market as is unless you are already a big company and why they are greatly been subsidized off of government money.

      After the installation is done though, the actual costs to operate are actually pretty low which is also partly what makes it impossible to compete with a monopoly as the moment you try and come in, they can drop their prices to levels you couldn't hope to meet because you still have to cover your initial startup costs which are huge while they are just paying maintenance costs which is chump change and then once you are starved out, they raise them back.

  13. Re: ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by Entrope · · Score: 1

    Are you saying that DirecTV doesn't require a paid subscription for that? I didn't limit my statement to DirecTV Now, just DirecTV streaming in general.

  14. Jobs will be lost by sbluen · · Score: 2

    It will be unfortunate it the incoming president disadvantages these third party content providers. There are jobs that will be lost if these companies go out of business or new companies are scared away, mostly middle class jobs in technology and media content creation. This will be a societal net loss, with no upside in either government income or consumer price cuts - the exact opposite of a free lunch in economics.

  15. Re: ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The founding fathers were willing to keep human beings in bondage, forced under compulsion of arms, so their moral judgment is moot.

    AT&T wants to be allowed to use public airwaves and expects the government to protect that, so the people have a moral right to determine what conditions are acceptable to them. Don't like it? Too bad. You aren't the boss of us.

  16. Re:ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by quetwo · · Score: 3

    Because AT&T has been given a defacto monopoly status (or really, participating in an oligopoly) by them being granted gobs of wireless spectrum in an exclusive manner. They aren't being told what they need to set their prices at, they are simply being told that they can't price them differently between them and their competitors. In the case of AT&T, they are not charging the customer or their subsidiary DirecTV for bandwidth, but for anybody who is using any of their competitors, they are charging the customer. This means that the customer is incentivized to use AT&T's product rather than a competitor, because while using the (T) service might cost $35 a month for unlimited streaming, it could cost in the hundreds or thousands for their competitors.

  17. The more you tighten your grip, Wheeler... by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    The more ISPs will slip through your fingers.

  18. Re:ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Probably the same reason it's okay for them not to have to spend thousands of dollars for the right-of-way on private property.

  19. Re:Racism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WAT!?

    Please tighten the tin foil cap, your insanity is leaking out.

  20. Re:ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by kenh · · Score: 1

    For some reason these jackoffs just keep coming back to building their monopoly towers, and the government lets them.

    Of course, you realize the irony of pointing this out on a story about the government stopping these "jackoffs", right?

    --
    Ken
  21. Does it really violate net nuetrality? by acoustix · · Score: 2

    I've always considered net neutrality to be more considered with how traffic is treated/shaped rather than how it is billed. I don't want service providers to change traffic priority that would benefit one content provider over another. But zero-rating, as far as I can tell, does not change traffic priority or speeds.

    --
    "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    1. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by nasch · · Score: 2

      It makes the net not neutral - some parties are advantaged and some disadvantaged. This doesn't have to be via traffic shaping to be a neutrality issue.

    2. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alright, if you don't care about billing and only how traffic is treated/shaped, how about you sign up for BiasNetISP. Where the BASIC plan is dirt cheap and affordable to all. But it restricts access to only a handful of websites: Facebook, Foxnews, Google, ESPN360, and the homepage of the church of the latter day saints. It also restricts any other Internet traffic other than web access. Shell out another $20/mo for Netflix traffic on their PREMIUM service. But hey! They pay lip-service to network neutrality and if you pay an extra $10K a year for ULTIMATE service, you get full unrestricted Internet access.

      Long story short, traffic is restricted for some of their customers. That IS affecting how traffic is being treated in a very non-neutral "We get to decide where traffic goes" sort of way. Once the gatekeepers try and control what roads you use, they can abuse that power to squeeze money out of you.

    3. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by acoustix · · Score: 1

      Alright, if you don't care about billing and only how traffic is treated/shaped, how about you sign up for BiasNetISP. Where the BASIC plan is dirt cheap and affordable to all. But it restricts access to only a handful of websites: Facebook, Foxnews, Google, ESPN360, and the homepage of the church of the latter day saints. It also restricts any other Internet traffic other than web access. Shell out another $20/mo for Netflix traffic on their PREMIUM service. But hey! They pay lip-service to network neutrality and if you pay an extra $10K a year for ULTIMATE service, you get full unrestricted Internet access.

      Long story short, traffic is restricted for some of their customers. That IS affecting how traffic is being treated in a very non-neutral "We get to decide where traffic goes" sort of way. Once the gatekeepers try and control what roads you use, they can abuse that power to squeeze money out of you.

      You completed turned around my point. I don't want traffic shaped or blocked. But if someone is going to get unmetered access to a certain service, I don't really care.

      For example, I'm a DirecTV customer on Verizon. I'm aware that if I was a AT&T customer that it would get me unlimited streaming of AT&T's services including DirecTV. That's fine. It makes me jealous as a Verizon customer, but it doesn't impede my ability or AT&T's customers the ability to choose whatever video streaming service they want to use. DirecTV, Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, etc will all still work and will not be throttled.

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    4. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      I've always considered net neutrality to be more considered with how traffic is treated/shaped rather than how it is billed. I don't want service providers to change traffic priority that would benefit one content provider over another. But zero-rating, as far as I can tell, does not change traffic priority or speeds.

      But it changes behavior. If you have to choose between DirecTV and Netflix, which would you pick? Netflix would count against your bandwidth limit, so maybe you can watch 1 hour a day without going over. DirecTV is zero-rated, so you can watch it 24 hours a day and it counts as 0 bytes transferred.

      It's a realty sneaky way of getting around throttling - you implement network controls across the board (fairly), But for those providers that pay, you can zero-rate them so it doesn't count against their limit.and thus be unlimited.

      Imagine you have an Android phone and Apple cuts a deal - all iOS traffic is zero-rated. Is this not a technical violation?

    5. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm having trouble with the leap you've made here. Actively "restricting access" is a different story to allowing some providers to use the network for free. If/when the pipe becomes too full you'll see these "free" deals vanish in a hurry. If ISPs start blocking web sites it's unlikely the government will stop this before a consumer uprising will anyway.

    6. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alright, if you don't care about billing and only how traffic is treated/shaped, how about you sign up for BiasNetISP. Where the BASIC plan is dirt cheap and affordable to all. But it restricts access to only a handful of websites: Facebook, Foxnews, Google, ESPN360, and the homepage of the church of the latter day saints. It also restricts any other Internet traffic other than web access. Shell out another $20/mo for Netflix traffic on their PREMIUM service. But hey! They pay lip-service to network neutrality and if you pay an extra $10K a year for ULTIMATE service, you get full unrestricted Internet access.

      Long story short, traffic is restricted for some of their customers. That IS affecting how traffic is being treated in a very non-neutral "We get to decide where traffic goes" sort of way. Once the gatekeepers try and control what roads you use, they can abuse that power to squeeze money out of you.

      You completed turned around my point. I don't want traffic shaped or blocked. But if someone is going to get unmetered access to a certain service, I don't really care.

      You're falling for the "zero rating" marketing spin.

      Imagine a health insurance plan where everybody pays $50, but fat people have to pay $10 extra.
      Reaction: WTF?!!? That's not fair! You can't do that!!!

      So they re-imagine the health insurance plan where everybody pays $60, but "health conscious" people can get a $10 discount.
      Reaction: That's cool, sure wish I went to the gym more :eats more cheetos:

      GP is saying these are the same damn thing, it's just that they have different marketing spins.
      You are eating cheetos, saying that the second plan is just fine, because it doesn't affect you.

    7. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      That's fine, so consider this: ATT & Verizon have bandwidth caps. If some sites are not subject to the cap, but others are subject to the cap, aren't they changing how traffic is treated/shaped? Once I hit my cap, the ISP is blocking some traffic, but not blocking other traffic. If there was no bandwidth cap, then there would be no need for zero-rating.

      So even if this sounds like I'm splitting a hair, in practice, it has the same effect as traffic shaping. Maybe I can't stream Netflix over my 4G connection because I would hit my cap in a day or two. But if I could stream Amazon prime, then that would make me subscribe to Amazon instead of Netflix. That's exactly the kind of thing we are trying to prevent: the ISP deciding to shift the market by changing what people access.

    8. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by acoustix · · Score: 1

      Alright, if you don't care about billing and only how traffic is treated/shaped, how about you sign up for BiasNetISP. Where the BASIC plan is dirt cheap and affordable to all. But it restricts access to only a handful of websites: Facebook, Foxnews, Google, ESPN360, and the homepage of the church of the latter day saints. It also restricts any other Internet traffic other than web access. Shell out another $20/mo for Netflix traffic on their PREMIUM service. But hey! They pay lip-service to network neutrality and if you pay an extra $10K a year for ULTIMATE service, you get full unrestricted Internet access.

      Long story short, traffic is restricted for some of their customers. That IS affecting how traffic is being treated in a very non-neutral "We get to decide where traffic goes" sort of way. Once the gatekeepers try and control what roads you use, they can abuse that power to squeeze money out of you.

      You completed turned around my point. I don't want traffic shaped or blocked. But if someone is going to get unmetered access to a certain service, I don't really care.

      You're falling for the "zero rating" marketing spin.

      Imagine a health insurance plan where everybody pays $50, but fat people have to pay $10 extra.
      Reaction: WTF?!!? That's not fair! You can't do that!!!

      So they re-imagine the health insurance plan where everybody pays $60, but "health conscious" people can get a $10 discount.
      Reaction: That's cool, sure wish I went to the gym more :eats more cheetos:

      GP is saying these are the same damn thing, it's just that they have different marketing spins.
      You are eating cheetos, saying that the second plan is just fine, because it doesn't affect you.

      But their rates didn't change for AT&T and T-moble. So what's the problem?

      --
      "A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
    9. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But zero-rating, as far as I can tell, does not change traffic priority or speeds.

      It causes the consumer to prioritize one content provider (traffic) over another because one is "free" (doesn't count against your data cap) and one is not.

    10. Re:Does it really violate net nuetrality? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But their rates didn't change for AT&T and T-moble. So what's the problem?

      Be wary of any proposal that allows some to be more equal than others.

  22. Re:Racism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're claiming Trump's attorney general nominee is racist, while completely blowing off Obama's repeat calls to genocide against Appalachian culture. Go fuck yourself.

    Gosh, I'm sorry your idea of culture requires you to be a meth-producing, pill-popping, mountaintop-removing bigot, but you're just going to have to respect our culture, which requires us to kick your shitty-ass into the civilized world even though you'd rather be returning to your precious medievalist caste society.

    And Obama? He is just so cruel, he won't let you suffer and die due to a lack of medical care, clean water, breathable air, and his wife, fiend that she is, wants your children to eat something other than salt-laden cardboard pizza and even, cruelty of cruelties, get out and exercise.

    That is truly the worst tyranny of them all.

  23. Re:Racism? by Maritz · · Score: 3, Funny

    You're claiming Trump's attorney general nominee is racist, while completely blowing off Obama's repeat calls to genocide against Appalachian culture. Go fuck yourself.

    lol. I bet you believe in Pizzagate too.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  24. Re:Racism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .

    And Obama? He is just so cruel, he won't let you suffer and die due to a lack of medical care, clean water, breathable air, and his wife, fiend that she is, wants your children to eat something other than salt-laden cardboard pizza and even, cruelty of cruelties, get out and exercise.

    That is truly the worst tyranny of them all.

    Just lest ingress the cost each year. If you cannot afford it well then we'll fine you. And those that had good insurance. Guess what? Had to give those up to get worse coverage. So far my deductible has increased and what insurance pays out is almost a joke anymore.

  25. I've seen this before by blindseer · · Score: 0

    This sounds a lot like a bunch of talks I attended while in college. When in college I was taking a power class required of all electrical engineering students and some company sponsored a handful of students to go to some big energy conference. What was big news then was the then new federal regulation that utilities had to charge other utilities the sames fees they charge themselves to carry power. What the government wanted to see was utilities stopping to abuse their monopoly on wires to prop up unprofitable electricity generation. Or, at least that is how it was explained to me.

    This seemed to be viewed as generally favorable. No one at this conference seemed to consider this a bad thing. Effectively the government enforced a separation between energy generation and energy transmission. Where this equates to this AT&T deal, at least IMHO, is that this is enforcing a separation between content ownership and delivery. The "monopoly" isn't as obvious since most areas of the USA are serviced by more than one cell phone company but it's not like people can switch cell phone providers on a whim, or get the same great deal on data from more than one content owner at the same time.

    I generally oppose the government getting in the way of business because it is so easy for rules intended to protect the average consumer to evolve into rules that protect a business. I'm not a DirectTV subscriber but I do get AT&T cell service. One thing I considered in choosing my cell service provider was that AT&T did not charge data usage for DirectTV and I thought that in the near future I may want that service. I could have stayed with Verizon as the price and data limit differences were small. I will say that it is nice that I get cell service while at work but that could be the new phone and not the new provider.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:I've seen this before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ...Yeah dude, you're talking about the DE-regulation of the power industry. It was a clusterfuck of a bad idea. Congress agreed to deregulate and let the free market compete on price. Enron entered the industry when California tried it out. This lead to a crisis. Enron engaged in some really slimy practices like buying all the time on critical lines, cancelling deals forcing others to scramble for power which, oh look, really kinda needed to go over those critical lines.

      I generally oppose the government getting in the way of business

      Then you would generally have been in favor of all that. Because it was an attempt at removing government regulation and allowing the free market to try and lower prices. But it was abused by those in power to squeeze an extra buck and it resulted in Enron making a ton of money, a bunch of other companies losing a ton of money, high electrical bills for residences, rolling brown-outs, and the eventual collapse of a Enron once it became such a problem it got political.

      Jesus Christ dude, if you know NOTHING of the Network Neutrality debate, this is the one big bit you need to take away from it: The Internet has historically operated on a principle of neutrality. The debate is how to keep it neutral now that the providers have consolidate to a small handful and are trying to get rid of it. Pointing at the attempt to deregulate the power industry is NOT a valid example for bitching about government interference.

  26. Re:Racism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just lest ingress the cost each year.

    I'm sure you thought you were making sense when you typed this sentence.

    If you cannot afford it well then we'll fine you.

    Nope. If you cannot afford it, well, that's why the plan was expanding Medicaid, except in the states that refused to do it(at the behest of Republican governors and legislatures, so blame them), and providing tax credits(Like these. You do know that is how the law actually worked is very different from the fervent ravings in your favorite right-wing book of doctrine, right?

    The only people who were going to get fined were those who refused to get coverage AND had the money for it, but still expected emergency room support.

    Costly and expensive emergency room support.

    And those that had good insurance. Guess what? Had to give those up to get worse coverage. So far my deductible has increased and what insurance pays out is almost a joke anymore.

    Sure man, and then Obama came and he shot your dog, didn't he? You do know your claims are factually deficient, and amount to nothing more than empty rhetoric right?

    Why don't you just rant some more about his birth certificate, and how he's forcing you to take birth control pills?

  27. Re:Racism? by Mashiki · · Score: 1

    lol. I bet you believe in Pizzagate too.

    Funny enough if we apply this standard of evidence(that buzzfeed used), Pizzagate goes from the realm of possibility into the realm of probability.

    --
    Om, nomnomnom...
  28. Re:ATT & DirecTV wouldn't be a violation. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    A strongly worded letter is far away from stopping anything.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  29. Re:Racism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lol. I bet you believe in Pizzagate too.

    Funny enough if we apply this standard of evidence(that buzzfeed used), Pizzagate goes from the realm of possibility into the realm of probability.

    Funnily, what Mashiki won't admit is that Buzzfeed published a real document, and even noted that it should be examined so it can be properly disputed, while the Pizzagaters are like Trump on what his "investigators" in Hawaii were finding.

    You picked the WORST possible associate when it comes to blasting others for being fake.