Samsung Note 7 Investigation Will Blame 'Irregularly Sized' Batteries and Manufacturing Flaws, Says WSJ (theverge.com)

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Samsung Note 7 Investigation Will Blame 'Irregularly Sized' Batteries and Manufacturing Flaws, Says WSJ (theverge.com)

Posted by msmash on Friday January 20, 2017 @02:40AM from the what-really-happened dept.

Samsung's official investigation into the cause of widespread faults with the Galaxy Note 7 will blame "irregularly sized" batteries and manufacturing faults, according to a report from The Wall Street Journal. The company is set to announce the results of its inquiry this weekend, but the WSJ claims to have revealed its conclusions early, citing information from "people familiar with the matter." From the report: The WSJ says Samsung hired three independent "quality-control and supply-chain analysis firms" to conduct its investigation, with these firms concluding that two separate faults affected the Note 7. The first fault relates to devices that used batteries made by Samsung subsidiary Samsung SDI. These batteries didn't fit inside the phone properly, which led to overheating and, in some cases, explosions. When reports of the Note 7 fault first emerged last August, executives initially believed the problem was confined to these particular devices. In response, they increased production of the Note 7 using batteries made by Hong Kong-based firm Amperex Technology. According to the official investigation, this rush to ensure there was an adequate supply of Note 7 devices for the market led to the second fault -- with the increased pressure on production creating unknown "manufacturing issues."

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"irregular sized" by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 02:42 · Score: 0

That's what she said
Agrument in favor of modularity by TWX · 2017-01-20 02:51 · Score: 4, Insightful

Well this is definitely an argument in favor of having some modular components inside of compact electronics like phones. It's understandable that the old PC model with sockets for the electronic parts like memory and microprocessors is not practical in miniaturized devices this small, but it definitely makes sense for devices like batteries, which are not nearly so integrated into the electronics as many other devices, to be removable.

Had the batteries been removable, Samsung could have recalled these units by correcting battery manufacturing problems and then shipping batteries to the carriers to distribute via store, or directly to consumers in cases where the store might not be an option.

A couple of coworkers had these phones and basically used them until they were bricked, they loved them so much. A lot of people would have been much less unhappy if a simple battery swap had been an option.

--
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
1. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by jellomizer · 2017-01-20 02:57 · Score: 1
  
  Had they be removable, the device would be too bulky for todays trendy consumers.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
2. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by TWX · 2017-01-20 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  How much thickness do you think the extra outer layer of plastic adds to the phone? If it has to be more than a millimeter I would be surprised.
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
3. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 03:12 · Score: 0
  
  Says ONLY the marketing departments after they've been told "thinner breaks faster".
  We wouldn't be sticking them in fat EZ-Grip rubber life-preservers if they weren't both excessively fragile and reaching an uncomfortable level of thinness, each of which directly due to this race to the bottom.
4. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by hey! · 2017-01-20 03:14 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  How much thickness do you think the extra outer layer of plastic adds to the phone? If it has to be more than a millimeter I would be surprised.
  Personally, I think it has more to do with the fact the lithium ion batteries have a finite shelf-life than it does with thickness. That means in two years you need a new phone even if you never added any software to it and managed the battery recharging perfectly. Even if the phone had been sitting in a box all that time it'd have significantly less battery life.
  
  --
  Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
5. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 03:28 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  For the battery to be truly removable and replaceable it would either need to be significantly larger not because of the battery but because there needs to be a frame rigid enough to accept the battery. When the battery is built in this is no longer a consideration. The only other option is to make the battery replacement part a component of the phone frame which is likely to mean only official batteries can be used and they will be expensive.
  As for a recall-and-fix being less expensive - HAHA. It is way easier to just make new phones. #1 collection, shipping, and ensuring the *same* phone makes it back to the customer would be a costly nightmare in and of itself. You would need to start what amounts to an entire logistics company just to complete the process. Then you have to send all the phones to a facility that can make this repair on millions of phones with little time to train employees. You basically still have the labor cost and battery materials cost. Remember Samsung doesn't pay what you do for the parts so they are not losing $600 per phone. They may even be able to negotiate down some of the costs that are "licensing" based in a situation like this and "transfer" that licensing to the replacement phone. The actual "materials" cost of a phone is fairly small. Tons of the cost is IP + there is gross margin.
  The ability to take advantage of bulk services from labor to facility time to shipping is reduced which increases costs significantly compared to the fine tuned "new build" production runs. For phones you can fill an airplane with a batch of complete phones - one flight from china and bam - done. For a recall process you are at the whim of the consumer. Daily -1/10th full planes? Market rate shipping?
6. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by TWX · 2017-01-20 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  And if the phone is modular and was sold through a carrier that has a brick-and-mortar presence, you start by having the carrier send notifications to the handsets on its network to come in and exchange the battery. After that first round, you start being more insistent about it and you possibly disable a feature like high-speed data until they bring it in. For those that continue to ignore it, you brick the phone. You set up a means for the clerk to note that a particular phone's battery has been swapped so to exempt them from the various actions.
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
7. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by PopeRatzo · 2017-01-20 03:41 · Score: 1
  
  Had they be removable, the device would be too bulky for todays trendy consumers.
  The "trendy consumers" weren't allowed to make that decision.
  
  --
  You are welcome on my lawn.
8. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 04:09 · Score: 1
  
  But they didn't vote, all of the high end phone manufacturers went to planned obsolescence, so the choice became I'm stuck with a phone without a removable battery or I don't have a high end phone.
9. Re: Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 04:30 · Score: 0
  
  its gotta be cheaper to push user replaceable battery replacements to distributirs then take all phones and scrao or dissassemble in house to salvage parts. the cases are going to metal it eould be much stronger, worst case scenario - har har - the case has dimples or countersunk screws(hopefully plain old philips heads instead heads) and a gasket where instead of popping the seem apart like the note or s4 you unscrew it. id buy that product but i dont care if my phone case is practical. perhaps someone can patent a tension mechanism for tool less opening but screws are fine.
10. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by sjames · 2017-01-20 04:54 · Score: 1
  
  OTOH, it beats the devices being too explody!
11. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 05:14 · Score: 0
  
  A properly stored Li-Ion Battery can go many years.
  I have had test batteries last over 10, Not at full capacity. But very functional
12. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 05:17 · Score: 0
  
  Easy choice. What on earth will a high end phone do for me? After owning a smartphone for a while, I want something like the old Nokia phone with a black and white display I had when I first decided to get a cell phone. Only needed to be charged about once per week and sent/received calls/SMS just fine. Fortunately, they're still making phones like that new.
  Only thing I'll miss is not needing to transcode my music from FLAC.
13. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 05:27 · Score: 0
  
  So that you can take out the old irregularly sized battery and put in the new irregularly sized battery?
14. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by thegarbz · 2017-01-20 05:28 · Score: 1
  
  Had the batteries been removable, Samsung could have recalled these units by correcting battery manufacturing problems and then shipping batteries to the carriers to distribute via store, or directly to consumers in cases where the store might not be an option.
  
  Yeah. Or people could just buy after market ones. Off ebay. Which catch fire and explode.
15. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by thegarbz · 2017-01-20 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  How much thickness do you think the extra outer layer of plastic adds to the phone? If it has to be more than a millimeter I would be surprised.
  You say 1 mm. I say 13% of the width of the entire phone. Perspective is everything.
16. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by thegarbz · 2017-01-20 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  That means in two years you need a new phone
  WTF are you doing to your phones that you only get 2 years out of the battery?
17. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by ITRambo · 2017-01-20 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  Phones with replaceable batteries are the only ones that I have ever wanted. Glued in batteries have always seems nuts to me. Just a waste of money. I've never had a battery explode on me. I only use the OEM ones. They're cheap enough at $20 or so, vs $100 to replace a glued in one.
18. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by TWX · 2017-01-20 05:32 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not quite down there, but I started carrying Palm Pilots back in the late nineties, and those devices were used for address/contacts lists, some light-duty spreadsheet or document viewing and editing, some maps, some PDFs from time to time, some early ebook stuff.
  
  I do look for the technology like a good web browser and other stuff, but I do not expect a phone to be a VR device or honestly, even a good camera. I need it for its ability to retrieve or display information.
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
19. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by TWX · 2017-01-20 05:33 · Score: 1
  
  Heh. This actually is a good point in a humorous way. If a device has a fundamental flaw that makes it unacceptable, it doesn't matter what bells and whistles it has.
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
20. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 05:37 · Score: 0
  
  But they didn't vote, all of the high end phone manufacturers went to planned obsolescence, so the choice became I'm stuck with a phone without a removable battery or I don't have a high end phone.
  Then they DID vote. You just don't happen to like the results of the vote. The high-end manufacturers did NOT all stop selling replaceable batteries simultaneously. In fact, people chose to buy the "fancy new" phones with the integrated batteries in enough numbers that it was clear to the high-end manufacturers that it was a trade-off people were willing to make.
  Believe me, if Android makers were willing to use the "it's free, you can compile your own phone OS" as a competitive differentiator, then "you can swap your own battery" would have been used as well, if it was important to more than a small handful of nerds.
  It's also worth noting that it's incredibly cheap and easy to buy an external battery pack today which can give you multiple charges of your phone from a device not much larger than your phone... so you can have the best of both worlds - huge battery life when you need it, and a lightweight, slim phone when you're not far from civilization. Also, your external battery pack can recharge just about any device with a battery, and usually only requires a USB cable to charge the battery OR charge the device from the battery's stored charge. Versus special phone chargers (or requiring the battery to be attached to your phone while it's charging), and versus single-use batteries that can only power the specific device they're built for.
  If you want modular design, then external battery packs with a standard USB connector are a shitload more modular than any integrated battery unit is ever going to be.
21. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by thegarbz · 2017-01-20 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  Phones with replaceable batteries are the only ones that I have ever wanted.
  
  Have a cookie. Unfortunately it's not a marketable feature. No one cares. Okay maybe the 6.9999999 billion people other than you and a few others here on Slashdot.
  This ship sailed 10 years ago.
22. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by jellomizer · 2017-01-20 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  Well if they got rid of that headphone port, there may had been enough free space to account for manufacturers discrepancies.
  
  --
  If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
23. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by TheCastro1689 · 2017-01-20 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  Letting it drain completely. A lot of people don't know that battery life is even shorter nowadays since you shouldn't let them drain.
24. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by hey! · 2017-01-20 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  Of course batteries last much longer than that. They just don't deliver as much energy. You can still use your three or four year phone, it just won't last all day like it did when it was new.
  
  --
  Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
25. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by SeaFox · 2017-01-20 07:29 · Score: 1
  
  How far should it be allowed to drain? I thought the shortened battery life was cause by people topping up to often and not using the phone through full discharge cycles.
26. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by ahabswhale · 2017-01-20 07:34 · Score: 1
  
  Low charge levels causes permanent damage to li-ion batteries.
  
  --
  Are agnostics skeptical of unicorns too?
27. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 08:20 · Score: 0
  
  I do look for the technology like a good web browser and other stuff, but I do not expect a phone to be a VR device or honestly, even a good camera. I need it for its ability to retrieve or display information.
  Yes!--and to have reasonable durability. This nonsense with bezel-less designs and rounded corners is exactly what I don't want. These phones have large expensive touch-sensitive screens that are susceptible to scratching and breaking. I put my phones in cases--cases which assume that the phone has bezels so that there can be case material around the sides of the glass in order to protect it. I surely do not want an uncased phone where this fragile glass is an edge!
  God help us from the marketers and their complete lack of common sense.
28. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by gnasher719 · 2017-01-20 09:56 · Score: 1
  
  Of course batteries last much longer than that. They just don't deliver as much energy. You can still use your three or four year phone, it just won't last all day like it did when it was new.
  On top of that, what phones are there in the market where you can't get the battery replaced? For example, you can get any iPhone battery replaced for $79 (with a genuine Apple battery, not one that is called "genuine" on Amazon), so if you had say an iPhone 6 with a two year old battery and it stopped working, you would be stupid not to replace it.
29. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by apoc.famine · 2017-01-20 10:05 · Score: 1
  
  I was always on that boat, until I got an S7. Water resistant, and the battery gets me 5+ hrs with heavy use. I swapped the S4 batteries out once a day, even with constant charging. I'm pretty happy with water resistance and the glued in battery. That plus wireless "drop and charge" charging, and I'm a happy customer. YMMV, of course.
  
  --
  Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
30. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 10:06 · Score: 0
  
  Once the undervoltage protection circuits disconnect the battery there will be only self-discharge, it's going to take years before it reaches the point of non return.
  Also they're not really that bad compared to other types of bateries, even NiCds can short out completely if they're kept discharged for too long, and car batteries will go bad in a very short time if not regularly recharged.
31. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by thegarbz · 2017-01-20 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  How far should it be allowed to drain? I thought the shortened battery life was cause by people topping up to often and not using the phone through full discharge cycles.
  Shortened life is due to several things:
  a) over discharge
  b) over cycling (big charges from empty to full)
  c) over temperature
  d) storage at full capacity.
  You want to maximise your battery life? Run it from 30-70%, charge it slowly, and keep your phone at 20-30 degC
32. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by thegarbz · 2017-01-20 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  Of course batteries last much longer than that. They just don't deliver as much energy.
  
  Let me repeat my question. "WTF are you doing to your phones that you only get 2 years out of the battery?" You're getting a noticeable performance decline in 2 years then you're doing something very wrong.
33. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 11:11 · Score: 0
  
  I voted - I said fuck these bitches.
  I'm still using my perfectly fine Samsung S5, no need for a stupid S6 with non-replaceable battery and no SD card, or an S7 with non-replaceable battery.
  And no piece of shit iPhones for same reasons...
  Who even notices how slim and flimsy the fragile piece of shit is when you need to buy a case to protect it anyways?
  The manufacturers never gave us a choice - they just started making non-fixable, non-modular crap.
34. Re:Agrument in favor of modularity by hey! · 2017-01-21 04:12 · Score: 1
  
  I don't have to do anything. Even stored under ideal circumstances li-ion batteries lose capacity.
  What matter is capacity relative to demand. In a phone like the Droid Maxx from a few years ago with plenty of surplus battery the phone will still be usable four years later. But something like a Samsung Galaxy S6 barely has enough battery to make it through the day when brand new and is pretty much unusable two years later even under ideal conditions.
  
  --
  Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
35. Re: Agrument in favor of modularity by fubarrr · 2017-01-21 04:59 · Score: 1
  
  Hardly possible. I'd rather buy cheap Chinese aftermarket batteries that are real crap, and switch them every few months
36. Re: Agrument in favor of modularity by thegarbz · 2017-01-21 10:59 · Score: 1
  
  Hardly possible. I'd rather buy cheap Chinese aftermarket batteries that are real crap, and switch them every few months
  Or buy a Sony phone which will have these hard limits programmed in to extend battery life. But hey if you want to go with multiple Chinese you may as well just use a cigarette lighter. It's cheaper and the fire will be just as big.
OK, so by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 02:52 · Score: 2, Insightful

the decision to dump the removable battery really was as brain-dead as it looked.
1. Re:OK, so by DickBreath · 2017-01-20 04:03 · Score: 1
  
  I find it astonishing that the Galaxy S5 had removable battery, could accept an SD card, AND WAS FREAKIN' WATERPROOF. At least extremely water resistant. Oh, and had a headphone jack.
  
  Then what did Samsung do in the Galaxy S6? Not waterproof. No SD card. And non-replacable battery. Why? (And Samsung stated as much . . .) to be more like an iPhone. More metal and glass. (freakin idiots)
  
  Newsflash: if I wanted an iPhone, I would have bought an iPhone. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
  
  In the end, it was the bloatware that made me move away from Samsung. Now I like my Nexus 6P, unlocked, with no bloatware and plenty of storage. All paid for up front. And it's got a screen as big as a Galaxy Note. (Is that a Nexus 6P in your pocket, or are you just excited to see me?)
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
2. Re:OK, so by harperska · 2017-01-20 04:43 · Score: 1
  
  If you didn't want a wannabe iPhone, you shouldn't have gone with Samsung.
3. Re:OK, so by DickBreath · 2017-01-20 07:21 · Score: 1
  
  Are you saying Samsung doesn't make the best wannabe iPhone? :-)
  
  I used to like Samsung's products. After the S5, not so much. But I wasn't a fan of Samsung they way I was a huge Apple fan back in the day. However, Apple today is a very different company than the great company I remember. I've found a phone I like really well. I hope you do also. I don't expect that I will ever view Apple they way I once did. (And I never viewed Samsung the same way that I did the classic Apple.)
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
idiocracy by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 03:03 · Score: 0

So they had no freaking design margin?
And their internal regulatory people did not have the intelligence (or their product safety engineers were cowards) to design proper Type Tests?
1. Re:idiocracy by DickBreath · 2017-01-20 04:04 · Score: 1
  
  Do not blame the engineers. This can only be the fault of managers who sit on padded chairs and think they know better than engineers.
  
  --
  
  I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
2. Re: idiocracy by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 04:47 · Score: 0
  
  havent read any tear down reports but if the battery is glued in then hopefully only tacked down at the edges vs between the battery and case which would definetly impact any expected margins if the assembly instruction/drawings didnt prohibit glue in that area explicity
An anecdote by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 03:08 · Score: 3, Interesting

I work in print
Certain professions (architects and some flavors of engineer) have a bad habit of giving very very specific dimensions, like to within 10um over ~1m which promptly get ignored. Not only are they unimportant and unatainable, but the substrates themselves aren't anything like that dimensionaly stable. Sometimes when I point this out to them they get a little bit upset, and give the impression that they feel I am some sort of slap-dash cowboy who couldn't give a fuck about their requirements.
Now my understanding of prismatic lithium cells is that they are made my laminating foil and plastic together, and then rolling it up into a battery, I'd guess that this is quite a repeatable process but not uber-precise when it comes to finished size. Combine this with the electrodes tendency to expand and contract with charge / discharge cycle then all you need is one over optimistic design engineer to spell disaster.
1. Re: An anecdote by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 03:57 · Score: 0
  
  Well, if I were you I wouldn't try getting a job with LETRASET,they do work to such tiny dimensions,my step father spent 5+ years gaining his PhD,sponsored by letraset to work out how to work consistently to such small tolerances,it's what saved the company when their first patent ran out..
  And yes,a lot of people do still use letraset..
2. Re: An anecdote by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 04:45 · Score: 0
  
  They used to letraset with projectors to do large signage, hence the need for precision.
3. Re:An anecdote by sjames · 2017-01-20 04:59 · Score: 1
  
  Exactly. This is just the cellphone division trying to palm off their own failure to use proper tolerances on to someone else.
4. Re:An anecdote by thsths · 2017-01-20 05:13 · Score: 1
  
  Especially in print you should be used to excellent precision. Even a standard laser printer used 1200dpi now, so a dot pitch of 20um. And these 20um need to be precise over the whole page (30cm), you cannot have one dot much larger than another without the result looking wrong.
  Samsung did not have this problem. The battery should have been 4mm thick, but it was 4.3mm or so. That may be less than 1mm, but it is a large difference..
5. Re:An anecdote by MobyDisk · 2017-01-20 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  You misunderstand the problem with printing.
  Yes, the dot pitch will be very accurate. But the paper can shift, which is why any professional printing requires what is called a "bleed" area of 1/8 of an inch. It can also bend or stretch from heat or moisture. I just ordered prints from a professional photographer, and I saw more than 1/8" shift. The left-most wallet-size picture was missing the left part of the picture, and the right-most wallet-size picture showed more of the right side of the picture than any of the others.
  This applies to machining parts as well Ex: Suppose one can machine a part to 1/1000th of an inch. But how accurately did I load the block of metal into the machine? Was the machine head mounted at a 0.01 degree angle, causing the part to be skewed? That slight angle could make a large part an inch off.
To thin! by Joe_Dragon · 2017-01-20 03:16 · Score: 3, Insightful

I don't want an super thin phone, why not make it bit bigger to have an better battery / one you can swap!
1. Re:To thin! by Freischutz · 2017-01-20 03:46 · Score: 1
  
  I don't want an super thin phone, why not make it bit bigger to have an better battery / one you can swap!
  Here you go: http://www.androidauthority.co... ... Now stop complaining.
2. Re:To thin! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 04:03 · Score: 0
  
  The two reasons that (CR)apple didn't design the iPhone 7 with a standard 3.5mm headphone jack:
  So that they could sell their vastly overpriced airpods.
  So that they could claim to have the thinnest phone.
  This whole marketing department idea of having the thinnest phone (or tablet, or laptop) has gone way too far! Easily replaceable batteries should be a feature of every phone, tablet, and other device that uses lithium batteries! And look how fragile and easily bent and broken the iPhone 6 is! Just too thin! One millimeter is about 1/25th of an inch. Few would notice (or care) if a device is 2-3 mm thicker!
3. Re:To thin! by GuB-42 · 2017-01-20 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  LG, LG and LG...
  And following the announcement that the LG G6 will non-modular and waterproof, I am not confident the trend will continue. What you are seeing on this page may be the last mainstream smartphones with a removable battery.
4. Re:To thin! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 06:34 · Score: 0
  
  I don't want an super thin phone, why not make it bit bigger to have an better battery / one you can swap!
  I started to buy an asus zenphone 3 max, which has a battery that lasts plenty long enough. link.
  I decided not to because it did not have gorilla glass.
  I ended up buying an older Motorola which did have it then putting a wireless charging thing in the back. (It barely fit.) 5" fits in your pocket, and the wireless charging makes things nice.
5. Re:To thin! by TheCastro1689 · 2017-01-20 06:42 · Score: 1
  
  Bleh, who wants android with their non-intuitive settings UI?
6. Re:To thin! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-21 05:35 · Score: 0
  
  To thin, or not to thin, that is the question.
What about your QA dept? by Ryn · 2017-01-20 03:20 · Score: 1

How much blame is Samsung placing on their: - Engineering dept which should have reviewed the specs for battery. - Vendor management group (which is probably Engineering) which should have overseen the battery and made sure the vendor built it to specs and tested it to specs. - QA Dept which should have verified those specs and tested the hell out of the product? There's plenty of blame to go around.
Would the trendy customer please stand up? by Opportunist · 2017-01-20 03:23 · Score: 4, Interesting

I actually started going out of my way to ask around among people that I run into (at meetings, conferences, etc) whether they want slimmer phones. Even the markedroids didn't give a shit.
Who the hell wants those phones thinner? Nobody I know cares. Yes, we don't want the inch-thick bricks from the 1990, no doubt about this, but phones have been "thin enough" for well over 5 years now.

--
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
1. Re:Would the trendy customer please stand up? by TWX · 2017-01-20 03:38 · Score: 1
  
  I went to a thicker phone. Sure, it takes a little more room in my pocket, but it doesn't slip out of my hand while I'm trying to hold it up to my head either.
  
  --
  Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
2. Re:Would the trendy customer please stand up? by thegarbz · 2017-01-20 05:32 · Score: 1
  
  Me. Hi. I want a slimmer phone. However I want it without compromises. I would prefer the iPhone to be slimmer but with square edges, because that rounded shit makes it hard to pick up. Lighter too. In fact if you could make it the exact thickness of the headphone jack it would be perfect, because any smaller and you'd need to remove it and I want to keep mine.
3. Re:Would the trendy customer please stand up? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 06:13 · Score: 0
  
  The reason things are getting slimmer is not 'necessarily' a marketing or trendy statement. It's because the Apple for on is dropping all the ports on their products, (claiming courage of course). Those 10 jacks & associated solder add thickness, and when all their products from laptops to phones, are reduced to one tiny port- the whole thing can go thinner.
  I'm pretty certain thinness is just an engineering byproduct but celebrated by their marketers.
4. Re:Would the trendy customer please stand up? by Agripa · 2017-01-21 06:22 · Score: 1
  
  I went to a thicker phone. Sure, it takes a little more room in my pocket, but it doesn't slip out of my hand while I'm trying to hold it up to my head either.
  You are holding it wrong.
Still can't admit it was a design flaw by rahvin112 · 2017-01-20 03:26 · Score: 1

I don't understand why they can't admit it was a design flaw that didn't account for the expansion of the battery pack by using far too tight tolerances. If they don't recognize the problem it will happen again.
1. Re: Still can't admit it was a design flaw by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 04:40 · Score: 0
  
  they probably realize internally but the report may have been safed for release as perhaps a face saving at least, likely damage control on share prices(i assume they are a public company). or simply with the samsung ceo controversy they cant pubicly admit fault to anything as directly in their control vs a supplier issue or bad batch.
2. Re:Still can't admit it was a design flaw by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 05:31 · Score: 0
  
  Because if the batteries had been shaped properly, there was enough room for expansion of them.
3. Re:Still can't admit it was a design flaw by rahvin112 · 2017-01-20 08:26 · Score: 1
  
  0.1mm clearance to the surrounding metal plate with edges that dug into the battery if it expanded more than 0.1mm was enough? Did you even look at the outside analysis. 0.1mm isn't enough for normal non-battery thermal expansion. Lithium batteries swell when charging and discharging, as much as 5% and 0.1mm wasn't even close to enough.
  Normal charge/discharge at thermally controlled rates would have exceeded 0.1mm. After a few cycles the metal plate's ridges would have poked holes in the battery and started bridging anode/cathode causing a runaway discharge along with a runaway thermal event. We call those runaway thermal events fires. Every competent designer familiar with Lith-ion expansion characteristics said the 0.1mm was way too small for a device that's going to be charging and discharging so frequently and so often.
4. Re:Still can't admit it was a design flaw by gnasher719 · 2017-01-20 10:02 · Score: 1
  
  I don't understand why they can't admit it was a design flaw that didn't account for the expansion of the battery pack by using far too tight tolerances. If they don't recognize the problem it will happen again.
  My understanding is that the specs were just fine, but the batteries were too big.
It's that time again... by nightfire-unique · 2017-01-20 03:33 · Score: 2

I've got upwards of $1000USD to spend on my next phone. It will not be spent on any device which has a battery glued in.
Wany my money, Samsung? Stop gluing batteries into your flagship phones.

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A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
1. Re: It's that time again... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 04:12 · Score: 0
  
  If only more folk thought and acted like you,we would have ended up in this position to start with,but sheeple are stupid,lazy and will buy the latest "in" thing,+ folk can only buy what is offered buy makers.
  If folk dealt want phones with swappable batteries,fire off a few emails to phone makers,comment on social media,try to persuade others to do the same and perhaps these moron "designers" who seem to be in charge at these companies will finally get what most "designers" deserve,which is an empty rifle cartridge hammered into their skulls,I.e a Russian punishment killing,then use their bodies in bio-gas plants to produce electricity,it's the only way they will ever achieve anything of use to others.
  Come the revolution,"designers" are very high up on my list to be up against walls or having a "Soweto necklace"..
  Leave the job to engineers,I don't fucking care what a device looks like,they are all oblongs with corners,a display on one side and a back..
  Me,I want an inch thick device,with a big fat removable battery,full device size slide out qwerty and with enough material in its body that it doesn't bend and can survive repeated drops from 12 feet,duck the Armani brigade who want poncey thin phones,their just a tiny percentage of criminals and kiddy fiddlers...
2. Re:It's that time again... by Lumpy · 2017-01-20 05:28 · Score: 1
  
  sounds like you wont be buying ANY phones.
  All of them are glued in.
  
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  Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
3. Re:It's that time again... by Chirs · 2017-01-20 05:40 · Score: 1
  
  Not true...do some research. LG has the G5, V10, and V20 with removable battery. There's also the Moto G4 Play, the Samsung J7, and probably others.
4. Re:It's that time again... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-23 04:56 · Score: 0
  
  Yes looks like LG is only flagship phone out there with removable battery. Note 4 was last flagship phone from Samsung with removable battery
Enjoy your Nokia 3310 by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-20 04:18 · Score: 0

Your $1000 is insignificant to Samsung.
People, in general, don't care about swappable batteries. Battery life of modern smartphones are long enough for almost all users. If you really need more battery life you could use an external powerbank. The days of swappable batteries are gone and they sure are not coming back.
Probably why Apple only has a $600B market cap. by Brannon · 2017-01-20 04:23 · Score: 2

If they would just make some thicker phones then they could finally make some money.
Sure they were, that's how the free market works. by Brannon · 2017-01-20 04:24 · Score: 1

They just didn't make the decision that you wanted the to make.
Out-of-the-box solution: battery in protector. by aussersterne · 2017-01-20 04:24 · Score: 2

Instead of placing the battery inside the handset, make a handset that just has a connector on it (wouldn't have to be a bulky, thick connecter like the USB series, could be done in any number of ways, including contacts on the back.
Open up the design, then let case manufacturers include batteries in their cases, since people overwhelmingly use cases anyway. Now the phone is very thin, so the case can be thicker to accommodate a battery.
Consumers needing long, long battery life can choose a wacky big case. Consumers needing very little battery life can choose a case with a battery that gets them close to current thickness levels. Need a new battery? Replace your $60 case instead of your $700 phone. Going on vacation? Get a fat silicone case with a fat, fat battery in it, just for the trip.

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STOP . AMERICA . NOW
1. Re:Out-of-the-box solution: battery in protector. by Jaime2 · 2017-01-20 04:40 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  So you want someone to invent the Moto Z?
I know the real reason.... by Lumpy · 2017-01-20 05:27 · Score: 1

Putin had them sabotaged as he knows that only democrats would buy android phones, thus trying to cut off all the communication.

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Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I'd be curious to know where the fault occurred by sandbagger · 2017-01-20 05:44 · Score: 1

My understanding is that most of the Samsung batteries are made in Korea when the products are exported globally. China-only products are made — and correct me if I am wrong —in China. Apparently Samsung has started making batteries elsewhere such as Viet-Nam. I'd be curious to see where the problem happened. If it was only in one plant, particularly a new one, that's unfortunate but not as bad as batteries going sour from multiple locations. That would indicate broad, deeply rooted issues in their engineering and QA.

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---- The above post was generated by the Turing Institute. Maybe.
Re:Sure they were, that's how the free market work by PopeRatzo · 2017-01-20 09:08 · Score: 1

They just didn't make the decision that you wanted the to make.
When were consumers given the choice of buying a slightly fatter S7 with a bigger, safer battery?
When were iPhone 7 consumers given that decision?

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You are welcome on my lawn.
There are fatter phones out there, buy one. by Brannon · 2017-01-20 11:16 · Score: 1

Or you can make your own--those are your choices with pretty much every single product in the world.
1. Re:There are fatter phones out there, buy one. by PopeRatzo · 2017-01-20 16:13 · Score: 1
  
  those are your choices with pretty much every single product in the world.
  No. There are more smartphones than cars in the world, but I can buy a Ford with an automatic transmission, a manual transmission, a big trunk, a small trunk, hatchback, truck bed or 20" rims that spin backward when I drive.
  So where is my 2017 Samsung or Apple with a replaceable battery?
  
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  You are welcome on my lawn.
Or an in-the-box solution: by Brannon · 2017-01-20 11:30 · Score: 1

Build in a battery on a slim phone that covers the typical user, and then allow people to purchase a case that makes their phone thicker with a larger battery.
It's lupus AND strongyloides by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · 2017-01-21 02:58 · Score: 1

The exact same symptom caused simultaneously by two completely different process failures?
Greg House disappproves.

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(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.