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Humans, Not Climate Change, Wiped Out Australian Megafauna (phys.org)

"New evidence involving the ancient poop of some of the huge and astonishing creatures that once roamed Australia indicates the primary cause of their extinction around 45,000 years ago was likely a result of humans, not climate change," reports Phys.org. schwit1 quotes their report on new analysis of a prehistoric sediment core from the Indian Ocean off the coast of Australia. The core contains chronological layers of material blown and washed into the ocean, including dust, pollen, ash and spores from a fungus called Sporormiella that thrived on the dung of plant-eating mammals, said CU Boulder Professor Gifford Miller, who participated in the study... Fungal spores from plant-eating mammal dung were abundant in the sediment core layers from 150,000 years ago to about 45,000 years ago, when they went into a nosedive, said Miller... "The abundance of these spores is good evidence for a lot of large mammals on the southwestern Australian landscape up until about 45,000 years ago," he said. "Then, in a window of time lasting just a few thousand years, the megafauna population collapsed."

The Australian collection of megafauna some 50,000 years ago included 1,000-pound kangaroos, 2-ton wombats, 25-foot-long lizards, 400-pound flightless birds, 300-pound marsupial lions and Volkswagen-sized tortoises. More than 85 percent of Australia's mammals, birds and reptiles weighing over 100 pounds went extinct shortly after the arrival of the first humans, said Miller... "There is no evidence of significant climate change during the time of the megafauna extinction."

The article adds that last year Miller also identified the first direct evidence that humans preyed on Australian megafauna -- burned eggshells from a 400-pound bird.

176 comments

  1. Land of the Lost by Zobeid · · Score: 2

    This reminds me of cheesy old movies and TV shows about primitive "cave men" constantly on the run from predatory dinosaurs -- Land of the Lost, Land That Time Forgot, etc. Except I think now we see that it would have been the dinosaurs doing the running, while the cave women back home got the BBQ pits warmed up.

    1. Re:Land of the Lost by Raenex · · Score: 1

      That would be The Flintstones.

    2. Re:Land of the Lost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hot diggity! Them two ton wombats is good eatin!

  2. Ah, the noble savage by johannesg · · Score: 5, Funny

    Serene, peaceful, in tune with nature, never takes more than he gives... And wipes out numerous complete (and unique) species.

    Considering that Europeans still have to suffer demands for reparation for such things as slavery, colonisation, and the crusades, one cannot help but wonder if a demand for compensation for the irreparable damage to the ecosystem made by the aboriginals is also possible.

    1. Re:Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that Europeans still have to suffer...

      Yes, when I think about the terrible suffering that French people are currently have to endure, it just literally breaks my heart. And poor little baby Jesus is certainly crying himself to sleep every single night listening to wails and lamentations of the French as they endure the unbearable agony of the existence. Oh, the humanity!

    2. Re:Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, pity them, for their stupid Marxist leaders let in tens of thousands of 8th century Muslim barbarians who now murder and rape them in bulk.

    3. Re:Ah, the noble savage by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, yes, humans 45,000 years ago were "bad" for the big animals, who knows, maybe they're the ones that turned the Outback into a desert, too; we're certain that humans desertified the fertile crescent more recently.

      However, modern man is so much more capable - we're scraping the oceans clean, and if we stay the course, we can bake the entire planet into the biggest and most thorough extinction event ever. 100 million years from now, the intelligent descendants of cockroaches will study our culture and chitter gleefully about how they have risen above their pesticide spraying overlords of the early 4th billenia.

    4. Re:Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...murder and rape them in bulk.

      This, if you've only ever been murdered and raped individually then it's impossible to imagine the true horror of being murdered and raped in bulk - back in the days we used to call it "economy size" but these days "Costco size" might be better understood by the younger generation.

    5. Re:Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that Europeans still have to suffer...

      Yes, when I think about the terrible suffering that French people...

      Umm, I know you Americans are bad at geography but French people don't speak English so they're not actually Europeans. I mean, it's sad that they're suffering and all but, since they're not Europeans, they're kind of like enemies of freedom and democracy so we shouldn't really care about them all that much.

    6. Re:Ah, the noble savage by tinkerton · · Score: 2

      Actually I've been told that humans were bad for any animal under 200 pounds, but beyond that it was a lot less interesting because the hunters had to carry the loot. So as humans expanded over the planet and moved into new areas you could see all the middleweight species in those areas declining sharply and even going extinct in a very short time.

      I haven't looked it up though. I suspect that the case that comes to mind, of humans hunting mammoths, would only happen if humans were hunting in large groups. Climate would be a large factor as well. If it's cold you've got more time to process the meat. I recall a scene from 'Into The Wild' where the protagonist kills a large animal and manages to retrieve almost nothing because the insects are instantly all over it.

    7. Re:Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, YES, France is part of the continent of Europe (also called geography). So in general, they are European by definition as they are on the continent of Europe. While geography does study the inhabitants of a particular geographical region, language is not one the factors that excludes them from a continent.

    8. Re:Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that were so, Europeans and others would be paying hundreds of times more for damage to the ecosystem. It took the peoples back then thousands of years to remove these species. We're doing it much much much faster.

    9. Re: Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How could you miss that ear splitting whoosh?

    10. Re:Ah, the noble savage by cstacy · · Score: 1

      Considering that Europeans still have to suffer...

      Yes, when I think about the terrible suffering that French people...

      Umm, I know you Americans are bad at geography but French people don't speak English so they're not actually Europeans..

      By at least 2294 (sd 38325.3) they will make it so.

    11. Re:Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Serene, peaceful, in tune with nature, never takes more than he gives... And wipes out numerous complete (and unique) species.

      Considering that Europeans still have to suffer demands for reparation for such things as slavery, colonisation, and the crusades, one cannot help but wonder if a demand for compensation for the irreparable damage to the ecosystem made by the aboriginals is also possible.

      An interesting fact is that Whites/Europeans were the first societies to ban slavery and to establish religious freedom in government. Most other races continued one or other of those practices much longer.

    12. Re:Ah, the noble savage by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Only around a century back it became popular to discredit people in the past by calling them "flat earthers" but the reality was every sailor and plenty of others besides knew that the horizon was from the curve of the earth.
      In this case we have people being critical of a strawman with some sort of gold-plated noble savage thing going on. Meanwhile anyone who has heard of a boomerang knows of things like fire-stick farming where people changed the environment to better suit them.
      So IMHO the people doing the "judging" don't really exist, only those who are ridiculing the mythical strawman who if they were real would be confronted this new evidence to shake their mythical worldview. How does the strawman hear of this when they haven't heart of a million other things that would shake their worldview?
      You are just telling the old "flat earther" joke.

    13. Re:Ah, the noble savage by dbIII · · Score: 1

      maybe they're the ones that turned the Outback into a desert

      There's some pretty old stuff in some of those deserts.
      From (http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Previousproducts/1301.0Feature%20Article32006)

      Although all of the southern hemisphere deserts are long-standing features of the environment, and took shape during the Miocene (24 million to 5 million years ago), they have responded to global and regional climate change during the Quaternary (the last 1.8 million years).

    14. Re:Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      An Interesting fact that is wrong.

      Most Jews and Christians felt safe in Muslim controlled lands for centuries, because the rulers at the time gave the "Dhimmi" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book) protected status, collecting taxes to allow them to stay. While there were occasional issues, Christians and Jews thrived enough to establish large communities in these lands without fear. Of course recently that has changed in many countries as we see radical Islamists are taking over the governments. Their ideas are not in from the Quran, but made from a hate fueled by ignorance.

      And traditional slavery was driven by wars of conquest or debts. Going back to Babylonian, Egyptian, and Jewish Kingdom times we can see that even slaves had rights and couldn't be treated poorly. Both people's religious texts and laws laid out what was allowed and even all the way back to the Babylonians methods of obtaining freedom were available. Most slaves lived lives comparable to European serfs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian_law#Three_classes).

    15. Re:Ah, the noble savage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Achaemenid Persian Empire of Cyrus the Great was the first to abolish slavery. Even prisoners of war were paid for their labor. The Persians were the original Aryans, so you can say they were white, but they were decidedly not European. In fact, the Europeans they fought with were totally dependent on slavery, which was no doubt a significant factor to their opposition to the Achaemenids.

  3. Their fault by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 4, Funny

    They were probably delicious.

    --
    Mostly random stuff.
    1. Re:Their fault by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Actually, I think they were scary, and delicious. Fear drives some really violent reactions, I was thinking that humans were starting to get a mastery of their fear, until just recently.

    2. Re:Their fault by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 2

      That explains why they left the other nasties alone. After all Australia still has all of its 50 pound worms, 100 pound spiders, mosquitos the size of baseballs, snakes the size of oil pipelines, golfball sized versions of those fish that swim up your urinal tract, etc. All poisonous, spiky, slimy, smelly, and very very pissed off.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:Their fault by SunTzuWarmaster · · Score: 1

      This. Humans hunted almost all big, meaty, slow-moving animals to extinction. Starting with the woolly mammoth. Seriously, a TWO TON wombat (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Vombatus_ursinus_-Maria_Island_National_Park.jpg)? Something like _4000_ person-days worth of food (not to mention pelts, bones, etc.) with no natural defenses? Delicious, easy kill. All were slain.

    4. Re:Their fault by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      a TWO TON wombat... Something like _4000_ person-days worth of food

      Humans probably hunted mostly juveniles, not adults. Juveniles are safer targets. And, killing off most of the juveniles easily leads to extinction.

    5. Re:Their fault by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      Survival of the bitterest.

    6. Re:Their fault by Carewolf · · Score: 1

      This. Humans hunted almost all big, meaty, slow-moving animals to extinction. Starting with the woolly mammoth. Seriously, a TWO TON wombat (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Vombatus_ursinus_-Maria_Island_National_Park.jpg)? Something like _4000_ person-days worth of food (not to mention pelts, bones, etc.) with no natural defenses? Delicious, easy kill. All were slain.

      Plus they probably rotted up long before they could be fully eaten, and then you had to get another.

    7. Re:Their fault by youngone · · Score: 1
      I live in the last major landmass on Earth to be colonized by humans, and it has no native mammals at all

      It did have birds however, and they had evolved into the ecological niches that mammals took in other places

      That meant (among other things) 3.5 metre, 220 KG birds evolved to browse trees like deer do in Europe. They were wiped out so quickly that when Europeans came along 350 years later the locals had lost all memory of the super-chickens they had eaten.

      I think it's just the way humans react to any common resource. Get as much as you can as quickly as you can because if you don't your neighbor will.

      This is the Super-Chicken

    8. Re:Their fault by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Emu is certainly nasty.

      Kangaroo isn't bad, as long as it's young. Croc tastes, more or less, like chicken.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    9. Re:Their fault by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I bet someone in Antarctica has raised a crop (of weed) in a closet. That should qualify as colonization.

      McMurdo thunderfuck?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re:Their fault by sheramil · · Score: 1

      They were probably delicious.

      i kind of doubt it, if they ate Eucalyptus leaves. your taste may differ, if it runs to cough syrup.

    11. Re:Their fault by sheramil · · Score: 1

      a TWO TON wombat... Something like _4000_ person-days worth of food

      Humans probably hunted mostly juveniles, not adults. Juveniles are safer targets.

      oh, dear, no.

      Wombats are fairly placid creatures.. until you come between them and their babies. Then they turn into raging monsters.

      "Ha, ha, what's it going to do? It's a herbivore!"

      What's it going to do? Have a friend throw a sack of cement at your legs. The impact will be similar to what it's going to do

    12. Re:Their fault by aberglas · · Score: 1

      Um, New Zealand mega fauna was wiped out by the Mauries.

      But the Oz possums are doing great!

    13. Re:Their fault by Greystripe · · Score: 1

      Except in this case it's have a friend throw a car at you.

    14. Re:Their fault by dywolf · · Score: 1

      human civilization has a lot of clever ways of preserving food, especially meat, that long predate refrigerators.

      3 methods of preservation that predate civilization:
      -sun drying
      -smoking
      -sealed packets in a mountain lake/stream (unsealed occurred too, but only as very short term storage as it tended to be eaten by critters)

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    15. Re: Their fault by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      "Have a friend throw a sack of cement at your legs" Hey, I quit that job last year.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    16. Re:Their fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wombats are a lot faster than you think!

      And they have an armour plated ass

    17. Re:Their fault by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I would expect the hunting pressure to drive large docile creatures to be better hiders/evaders, such as better eyes/ears/attention, night eating, etc.

      However, if you have little ones to take care of, you have less hiding/evading options. Little ones tend to be slow, loud, and confused.

    18. Re:Their fault by Demena · · Score: 1

      All labour intensive. Why bother in a land of plants plenty?

    19. Re:Their fault by dywolf · · Score: 1

      you'd have to ask them, considering we know they put in the effort to do so.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    20. Re:Their fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, then it was Excrement Colored Anthropoids who did the megafauna. It is plain Human who do insects and some of the bigger, biggest animals, in fact. So not only megafauna was extinguished but also the Humans who arrived there before the abos did everyone else out. We are watching it happen in Africa just right now. Same pattern, but it is still unrecognized with objectivity.

    21. Re:Their fault by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      golfball sized versions of those fish that swim up your urinal tract

      Ouch...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    22. Re:Their fault by Demena · · Score: 1

      From what do we know?

    23. Re:Their fault by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Wombats are fairly placid creatures.. until you come between them and their babies. Then they turn into raging monsters.

      So you don't do that. You sneak up on the juvenile's side of the adult, throw a spear into the juvenile, and run away. Repeat until the juvenile dies. While you're running away, your colleagues in the ambush pop up and throw spear at juvenile or adult. Eventually one or other of the animals stops running, when you continue chucking spears at it until it dies. The other animal - probably the adult, eventually wanders off and you carve up the immobile (possibly not yet dead) one.

      Your idea of "hunting" may involve weapons that can kill the target with one shot, but your ancestors beyond about 5 generations ago simply did not have that option.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  4. Mega-fauna like Madonnaesque Fem-Dems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get too big for yo bitches ... some maleness is gonna put yo face in stitches. BURMASHAVE.

  5. Difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Humans, Not Climate Change, Wiped Out..."

    Feel like we're splitting hairs here.

    1. Re: Difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No because anthropogenic climate change doesn't have retroactive effect.

  6. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    The abos are not so innocent as the liberals want to portray them after all.
    How long before people find a way to blame white males anyway?

    No shit.

    I remember all those wonderful stories back in elementary about Iroquois making longhouses and how every few year's they'd move to another one.

    Those stories about the wonderful life of those Native Americans kinda left out the fact that the Iroquois had to move because they stripped the local area completely bare.

    Oooopsie. We can't paint those noble savages as anything other than superior to white people - because only white people strip the world of its resources!</SARCASM>

  7. This shouldn't surprise anyone by quonset · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We can look to our recent history and see the same extinction process created by man. The passenger pigeon, Tasmanian tiger, the Dodo, Great auk, Quaggas, Carolina parakeet and so on. Even today there are several species who are literally on the brink of going extinct, including the northern white rhino of which the last known male of its species is under 24 hour guard to protect it from poachers. Had it not been for Teddy Roosevelt, the American bison would most likely also be extinct, slaughtered by the literal tens of thousands as short as 130 years ago.

    Man-made extinction also occurs in human populations. How many different Native American tribes were exterminated either because of Europeans or their Native American allies? How about those of Central and South America or those in the Far East?

    We can see the same extinction process in places like Borneo where the habitat of orangutans is being wiped out due to illegal farming or clear cutting for palm oil trees, and similar processes under way in Madagascar where many animals exist in no other place on the planet, such as the ring-tailed lemur of which only an estimated 2,500 still survive.

    Anyone who says man doesn't and can't have an effect on the environment is simply blind to reality.

    1. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      The passenger pigeon

      If any of you want to read an amazing book about the passenger pigeon and how it became extinct, check this out:

      https://www.amazon.com/Feather...

      Seriously, this is a great book and surprisingly, a crackling read. It is some story, and beautifully written.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 0

      That reminds me: every time you pronounce orang-utan as YURangetang (instead of OHrang OOtan), one of them dies...

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      I just killed 10. Pray I don't kill any more.

    4. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone who says man doesn't and can't have an effect on the environment is simply blind to reality.

      I've literally never heard anyone say that.

    5. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by quonset · · Score: 2

      I present to you Republican Senator James Inhofe:

      "Climate is changing, and climate has always changed. There's archeological evidence of that. There's biblical evidence of that. There's historic evidence of that."

      "The hoax is that there are some people who are so arrogant to think that they are so powerful, they can change climate. Man can't change climate."

    6. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the moa of New Zealand was over hunted to extinction 200 years after the Maori arrival on the island in the late 1200s.

    7. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And its translation to English is Orange Man. And no this is not trolling because there's also an orange man in the oval office.

    8. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      There's gotta be a punchline with "endangered" here, I just can't find it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    9. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never heard anything I'd describe as YURangetang. I've heard the "tang" part at the end rather than tan, but never a y-sound at the beginning or any other substantial deviation from your second pronounciation guide. Where is that from?

    10. Re: This shouldn't surprise anyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't take more than 10-20 years after humans arrived in any area to wipe out megafauna in NZ. Also ate all seal and penguin colonies (they are slowly coming back) and extinctified Haast eagle (biggest raptor, preyed on moa)

    11. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by dave420 · · Score: 1

      No, it means "person of the forest".

    12. Re: This shouldn't surprise anyone by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Leaving only the more lucrative cargo pigeons.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    13. Re: This shouldn't surprise anyone by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      I thought it was orange-tan. I may be thinking of the president.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    14. Re: This shouldn't surprise anyone by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Prince Donald of Orange, and his vizier Prience Riebus.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    15. Re: This shouldn't surprise anyone by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      No moa. (Somebody had to say it)

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    16. Re: This shouldn't surprise anyone by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      well done

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    17. Re:This shouldn't surprise anyone by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Apparently we've got the wrong Orange Man in the Oval Office.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  8. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your Catholicism is showing

  9. Lack of Oxygen by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Volcanoes co2 emissions lessen as planet still cools, plants who depend on rich co2 die back, less o2 emitted, less breathable air, animals tend to have a small air inway, o2/fuel requirements to keep a 1000lb animal active > available resources = most don't make it

    1. Re:Lack of Oxygen by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 2

      Volcanoes co2 emissions lessen as planet still cools, plants who depend on rich co2 die back, less o2 emitted, less breathable air, animals tend to have a small air inway, o2/fuel requirements to keep a 1000lb animal active > available resources = most don't make it

      Plants are stupid. They should all die.

      I laugh at the thought that some plants have suffered sub-optimal, even stunted growth in the run up to the Industrial Revolution. For many plants CO2 was almost down to 'gasping' level. It is funny to imagine plants gasping and panicking for breath. I am angry at volcanoes for helping to feed plants now and then, but at least volcanoes blot out the sun and lengthen Winter so you can imagine nasty plant things suffering in other ways too. Now Trump man comes along and wants to feed the plants with more fossil fuel and stirring up swamp gas. He should mind his own business and leave the plants alone. Did you know that if you move a house plant a little farther from the window every day it will begin to lean towards it? Then all of a sudden you turn the pot around. It's hilarious!

      I hate plants. Plants are stupid.

      --
      <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  10. HFY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Humanity Duck Yeah!

  11. How is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How could white males have made it to Australia so long ago?

    1. Re:How is this possible? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, we exported our SUVs first.

  12. Tasty, tasty megafauna by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would've eaten them big animals too. It's a lot of meat for not too much work. You also get hides, bones, sinews, bladders, all kinds of useful stuff.

  13. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ok how the hell this got attached to the above post rather than #53715357, I have no idea, maybe it's lack of coffee. I'll slink back to my cave and rot.

  14. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Christophobe bigot.

  15. Re:Not so innocent after all by starless · · Score: 1

    Those stories about the wonderful life of those Native Americans kinda left out the fact that the Iroquois had to move because they stripped the local area completely bare.

    As long as it's a moderately small area that's affected, and it regrows after the humans have moved to a new area allowing people to return again after some years, that's a perfectly sustainable approach.

  16. It may have been humans by pjv936 · · Score: 0

    but there is no prove that it was people. People are just a strong possibility when you eliminate the other choices are been less possible. But it should be noted that humans live in African for hundreds of thousands of years and Africans mega fauna survived. It is possible that a short lived disaster could have caused the die off. Something like a nearby super volcano or an asteroid impact.

    1. Re:It may have been humans by Dare+nMc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > It is possible that a short lived disaster could have caused the die off. Something like a nearby super volcano or an asteroid impact.

      They found evidence of a constant decrease in populations over thousands of years, without a corresponding climatic change. It is possible, or perhaps likely that a event like that finished them off. But something other than climate change pushed these local populations to the brink first, and it started at the same time as humans showed up.

    2. Re:It may have been humans by tomhath · · Score: 1

      But it should be noted that humans live in African for hundreds of thousands of years and Africans mega fauna survived

      Not the same thing at all. Humans evolved alongside other fauna in Africa for millions of years; they arrived in Australia fully armed as a dominant predator.

    3. Re:It may have been humans by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The difference being that the animals didn't know that the sensible thing to do was run away really really fast?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    4. Re:It may have been humans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yah, I guess it could have been aliens. But my money is on the people who tend to go off on one about the white man being evil because he treats land as property and about how we should never take more than we give.

    5. Re:It may have been humans by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      The difference being that the animals didn't know that the sensible thing to do was run away really really fast?

      Pretty much.

      Plus the lack of thing that had evolved to kill humans in Australia. No tse-tse flies, for instance....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    6. Re:It may have been humans by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Australia wildlife now being entirely care (bears/spiders/snakes)?

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    7. Re:It may have been humans by sheramil · · Score: 1

      but there is no prove that it was people.

      (excited Arnold Rimmer voice) ALIENS!

    8. Re:It may have been humans by Hodr · · Score: 1

      So is that why everything left overcompensates in the killing humans department?

    9. Re: It may have been humans by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Has anybody eliminated the possibility that it was Ewoks?

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    10. Re: It may have been humans by gzuckier · · Score: 1
      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    11. Re:It may have been humans by syntotic · · Score: 1

      It means: those abos are not people, but People, communal being.

    12. Re:It may have been humans by Quirkz · · Score: 1

      But it should be noted that humans live in African for hundreds of thousands of years and Africans mega fauna survived.

      As someone else noted, humans evolving in Africa gave the local megafauna time to learn to avoid us. There's a direct statistical correlation between the percentage of megafauna driven extinct and the distance from the site of human origins. African megafauna suffered the least, European and Asian less so, but Australian, North American, and South American megafauna got hit really hard. The idea is very popular that those continents not explored until humans were fully modern explain why most of those megafauna went extinct.

    13. Re:It may have been humans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humans went through the Americas fauna in the exact same way about 12,000 years ago.

      As noted above, the mega fauna that evolved alongside humans in Africa survived. Eurasia's mega fauna had some early practice with early model humans so didn't get smashed as badly. But the isolated extremes like Australasia, the Americas, and Pacific got wrecked.

  17. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Tell that to the mammoths and sabretooths.

  18. literally on the brink of going extinct by mpercy · · Score: 1, Redundant

    So there's species where there one last creature standing on the edge of a cliff ready to cast over the edge and with its own death rendering its species extinct?

    No. "On the brink of going extinct" is a perfectly good idiom describing what I think you meant to describe. Adding "literally" to it makes it just silly.

    1. Re: literally on the brink of going extinct by mpercy · · Score: 0

      Make that "where there's"...

    2. Re: literally on the brink of going extinct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People, even educated people, have been using literally in this way for literally more than a hundred years. You need to get over it.

  19. Re:Not so innocent after all by CaptainDork · · Score: 0

    The Crusades were about rape, pillaging, burning, land-grabbing and money.

    I know that.

    Why don't you?

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  20. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the new word. New to me, anyway. I'm going to be finding opportunities to use this one in casual conversation. Especially at work.

    I am also going to admit to being a bigot on this front. I have spent a lot of time inside churches (having been raised there), and the dominant theme among churchgoers really does seem to be stupidity. I was also always stuck by the clearly artificial joy that they tried to express while singing their stupid songs...most of them clearly didn't want to be there, but were there because they were afraid that God was going to torture them in fire forever if they didn't go.

    Anyway, I think it is wise to be a little bit afraid of people who would believe evidence-free, foundationally-important statements about reality that come from thousands-of-years old books, of dubious authorship, delivered by one of the most powerful political organizations in the world.

  21. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Crusades were religious wars, fought to maintain control of land that had special religious significance.

    What was that you said about rewriting history for you own motivation?

  22. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gorilla deserved it!

  23. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's a ridiculous statement.
    The crusades were the response to muslim invasions of various christian holdings, in combination with an attempt at weakening the muslim hold over trade from asia, and also simultaneously gaining favor with Rome.
    If any persecuted people were saved by the crusades that was purely incidental.

  24. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bull. The crusades were a reaction to economic conditions in Europe. The pope at the time suggested invading the holy land would be a nice solution to the problems. There are records of it even.

  25. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good to see racially insulting names are totally accepted here. But cowards are as cowards do.

  26. Yeah, but he never LITERALLY met a senator. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So he wasn't "lying", he just wasn't saying what you were meant to think he was.

  27. FAKE NEWS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    As a member of staff under the administration of our fearless leader Donald J. "The Ratings Machine" Trump I call BS on this story.

    The first idea was nonsense, I mean climate change? come on! but now you're blaming innocent people.

    For the 100th time. It never happened! -scientists are in cahoots with journalists to invent stuff that never existed only to claim extinction for some ratings and drama.

    Who are you going to believe?? The POTUS or fake news?!

    1. Re:FAKE NEWS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for the stupid.

    2. Re: FAKE NEWS by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Can't spell POTUS without pot.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  28. but wait; there are markings by epine · · Score: 1

    The abos are not so innocent as the liberals want to portray them after all.

    Here's the thing: the upside of inventing a writing system is world domination; the downside is finally having to admit in public that you are a real ass (and always have been).

    In the above, "you" is a set of nesting dolls, innermost being the fifty-year-old white male technocrats of western European origin who treat Wikipedia as their private, personal playgrounds (thence to aging white European males, white European males, white males, whites altogether, etc.)

    Here's the second thing: after a society invents writing, soon the society has written myths (with serious legacy entrenchment) that innocence preceded the current sad state of affairs (how-far-I-have-fallen porn, not that the larger consequences can't be remedied by kneeling under the right cumulus cloud for a thoroughly abject sixty seconds).

    Society will re-invent writing over and over again (movable type, Movable Type) before the reversal of true illumination makes the least headway: that the human asshole apogee was attained circa the advent of the original edged weapon.

    As far as the abos go, they all need to repeat to themselves "there but for the grace of God go I", unless they think their ancestors truly enlightened enough to not have had even the most remote possibility of inventing any form of written record, whatsoever (best if you're not much past the wreathie leafy loin cloth, because any loose thread threatens to quipu a long record, and then immediately you're on the outie asshole train along with every other post-prehistoric posse of mugs, pugs, and thugs).

    1. Re:but wait; there are markings by dwywit · · Score: 1

      Go have a look at some paintings by Australian Aboriginals. There are lots of stories there. There are pictures of people and animals, and other things, but also symbols and abstractions. It's not exactly a written language as we westerners like to think, but it's definitely communication laid down on durable surfaces. Tree bark is temporary, but the rock paintings are quite old.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
  29. Re:Not so innocent after all by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Care to jive that with the Fourth Crusade and the Sack of Constantinople...

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  30. Re: Not so innocent after all by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

    Pretty much my experience of having to go to church as a kid. There were a few fanatical true believers, and everyone else did it because of some variant of Pascal's Wager. I finally dropped out of the whole thing when I was sixteen, not for any noble reason but mainly because I wanted to smoke and have sex, but even at that age at least part of the reason for my rejection was that my family's church had absolutely absurd beliefs, in particular their view on evolution. I had secretly accepted evolution since I was nine years old and had read a book in the school library on the evolution of humans from Australopithecus onward, but nine year olds don't have the personal authority to tell their parents and their religious authorities that they're all full of shit, whereas a sixteen year old has the right combination of hormones and hubris to brazenly tell everyone "Your beliefs are beyond absurd, and border on the criminally idiotic."

    It might have gone a bit differently if I were raised in a more mainstream church like Catholicism, Lutheranism or Anglicanism, where they do try to keep the idiocy to a minimum, but in the more wingnut Protestant churches, the maniacal stupidity just drove me away. At the end of it I became I guess what one would describe as a "weak atheist" bordering on agnostic. I know the existence of Yahweh can never be disproven, but I see absolutely no reason at all that such a being need be invoked, and whenever I see Yahweh invoked by Christians, Muslims and Jews, it's often to justify something noxious, or to prop up the weak-minded who need constant reminders that prostrating themselves to the deacon now means eternal salvation.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  31. Re: Not so innocent after all by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Then as now, Muslims were murderous expansionists. The Crusades, in part, were a response to aggression.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  32. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Congratulations. Only had to go back 45000 years to find something that wasn't your fault.

  33. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet, you got lied to and believed that climate change wiped out the Australian megafauna. So it's really just jumping from one religion to the other without any fact checking (which is admittedly hard). But let's see if you extend the same negative feelings to Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, socialism, etc.

  34. Darwinist outlook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some days you are the adaptee, some days the adapter.

  35. Re:Not so innocent after all by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    When were aboriginal people portrayed as innocent? Aboriginal people were portrayed as living off the land which is factual. Some of them were nomadic, too so agriculture is probably not how they survived.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  36. People are so gullible. by skoony · · Score: 0

    This story is a bunch of hog wash. There wasn't a human population large enough to destroy the megafauna.

    1. Re: People are so gullible. by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      That's what happens when people let their pet sabertooths out at night.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  37. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >Muslims were murderous expansionists.

    And Christian empires weren't/aren't? Naive Xstian shill.

    The problem isn't religion, it's human nature. Get that through you head.

  38. Re: Not so innocent after all by Layzej · · Score: 5, Informative

    Yet, you got lied to and believed that climate change wiped out the Australian megafauna.

    Lied to? By whom? Seems like Human impact has been the favoured explanation since before the turn of the century: Pleistocene Extinction of Genyornis newtoni: Human Impact on Australian Megafauna. Largely on account of the fact that climate change was modest over the period of extinction: "More than 700 dates on Genyornis eggshells from three different climate regions document the continuous presence of Genyornis from more than 100,000 years ago until their sudden disappearance 50,000 years ago, about the same time that humans arrived in Australia. Simultaneous extinction of Genyornis at all sites during an interval of modest climate change implies that human impact, not climate, was responsible."

    Most people were probably not aware of this one way or another before reading this Slashdot post. Those that looked it up on Wikipedia would have found that Humans are thought to be the cause: "Analysis of oxygen and carbon isotopes from teeth of megafauna indicate the regional climates at the time of extinction were similar to arid regional climates of today and that the megafauna were well adapted to arid climates.[5] The dates derived have been interpreted as suggesting that the main mechanism for extinction was human burning of a landscape that was then much less fire-adapted; oxygen and carbon isotopes of teeth indicate sudden, drastic, non-climate-related changes in vegetation and in the diet of surviving marsupial species. However, early Australian Aborigines appear to have rapidly eliminated the megafauna of Tasmania about 41,000 years ago (following formation of a land bridge to Australia about 43,000 years ago as ice age sea levels declined) without using fire to modify the environment there,[7][8][9] implying that at least in this case hunting was the most important factor. It has also been suggested that the vegetational changes that occurred on the mainland were a consequence, rather than a cause, of the elimination of the megafauna.

  39. Re:Not so innocent after all by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

    So do *you* care to jive the Fourth Crusade and the Sack of Constantinople with your statement?

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  40. A contrary view by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 0

    Here is a recent contrary view, where they dated a mega-wombat fossil to 17000 years after the arrival of humans at that location. (However, if web search results are anything to go by, the human-caused-extinction hypothesis seems much more popular.)

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
  41. Missing hypothesis by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe the noble savage really is "serene, peaceful, in tune with nature, never takes more than he gives", precisely because their ancestors learned such a hard lesson and taught their descendants "don't mess up like we did". (I'm not saying it is so, just that it is consistent with the observation of prehistorical extinctions.)

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
    1. Re:Missing hypothesis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      or maybe Rosseau was full of shit.

    2. Re: Missing hypothesis by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Well, for one thing, there was/is no hunter/gatherer equivalent of a millionaire or billionaire. The wealthiest man imaginable might have 4 knives (Not actual literal figure) rather than 38 billion times the wealth of the losers. (Actual literal figure) http://www.primeeconomics.org/...

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    3. Re: Missing hypothesis by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      38 million not billion, sorry.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  42. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The abos are not so innocent as the liberals want to portray them after all.
    How long before people find a way to blame white males anyway?

    With a post like this I'm blaming you already.

  43. Re: Not so innocent after all by youngone · · Score: 1
    I was raised a sort of luke warm Anglican and stopped going to church when I got big enough to mow the lawn.

    My Dad never liked doing it, and when he figured out that I was strong enough, he asked if I liked church, which I didn't particularly, and the stories made no sense at all to me.

    "Fine," he said, "you don't have to go then, but if you stay home you'll have to get that lawn mowed".

    I really didn't mind, I've always liked doing that job.

    Oh, and Rev. Johnston, if you're reading this, if you want kids to accept your faith, don't tell them the story of the burning bush. It just makes your god out to be a total dick.

  44. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, but your ignorance is screaming out loud. Maybe using your spare time to read a history book (or 10, to average out the bias) will help you avoid spouting such stupid drivel in the future.

    To give you a hint, look for what interesting event with very long-lasting consequences happened in 1204...

  45. whities by bigtreeman · · Score: 1

    Took the aborigines thousands of years, we've done worse in a couple of hundred years

    --
    Go well
    1. Re:whities by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So all humans are a danger to nature, and what we call civilization only means being more efficient at it.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:whities by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Try this:

      So two demonstrated, vaguely-defined groups of people have been shown to be a danger to nature. One of the groups is more civilised than the other (by some definition), showing that one of the side-effects of this definition of civilisation is possibly an increase in danger to nature.

  46. Re: Not so innocent after all by thogard · · Score: 2

    There was some climate change occurring as a result of the widening gap between South America an Antartica at Tierra del Fuego. The increase in water flow of the Antarctic Circumpolar Current helps with the deforestation of Australia. There was a major event that widened the gap about 100,000 to 50,000 years ago which might have led to the migration to Australia. As the water flow increases, southern Australia will get drier.

  47. Burnt Eggshells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Because burnt eggshells proves humans did it! Never could they have been burnt by a forest fire. HERP DERP for science. Dem humans be to blame.

  48. Barbara Bach. by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Huge hootered cavewomen! At least Ringo was a better actor than he was a drummer.

    Zugzug you.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    1. Re:Barbara Bach. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Ringo was a pretty good drummer. This is hardly surprising, since they sacked their old drummer to get him in, and he was the drummer for the biggest band in the world. I'd recommend 'Eight Days a Week' for evidence. However, he couldn't act to save his life.

  49. Re:Not so innocent after all by rtb61 · · Score: 1

    In this case the conclusion is both right and wrong. They are right to claim Native Australians (not the adjective people), did cause that extinction. However they were societies under stress due to the ice age onset and so, while they were once stable in their ecology, that stability was disturbed by an ice age.

    Lets see how modern humanity copes with massive flooding or massive freezing before the judge members of the original Australian nations (not the adjective people).

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  50. Groupthink misses the forest for the trees by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 0

    Reasonably good science work, horrible assumptions, junk conclusions. We know that there are fossils of huge mammals (and humans, not the hoaxes but actual fossils) that still live today only much smaller, not just Australia but all over the globe. What caused these mammals to get a lot smaller? Given the fact that physics says that many of these mammals were so large that they would barely function on today's atmospheric density and composition, it is highly likely that at some point in the past the atmosphere was much denser and/or much higher in oxygen than it is now, which would support the cardiovascular systems of the fossils we find (dinosaur and mammal). Couple this with the fact that almost the entire planet has sedimentary rock and fossils within those sedimentary layers, and that sedimentary rock can be deposited rapidly under cataclysmic conditions and things begin to fall into place.

    The best theory that I have heard goes something like this:

    Before 6000 years ago, there was an ice shell around the outer atmosphere, which at the time only extended up 10-20 miles instead of 60 miles. Atmospheric pressure was higher and the ice shell filtered out most harmful radiation that now comes down to the surface. Because there was no radiation getting through, there was zero C14 [C14 is generated in the upper atmosphere by ionizing radiation; C14 decays at a constant rate; EVIDENCE AND OBSERVATION (not speculation) points to a continuous generation rate of C14]. We have observed that C14 rates are still increasing, and based on the rate of increase and the current levels, C14 production began around 6000 years ago and will reach equilibrium in around 24,000 years. Thus we know reasonably well that the planet was significantly different before 6000 years ago.
    Oxygen content was maybe 30%. The planet was roughly flat with the largest mountains being only a few hundred feet or so and the tectonic plates all had massive underground water pockets supporting them, similar to all continents today with trapped underground reservoirs, only much larger. Around 6000 years ago, a nitrogen comet struck the planet (mostly broke up in the atmosphere due to the nature of nitrogen ice) somewhere around Siberia, crushing the atmospheric ice shell and causing massive shear on the planet and a planet wide temperature crash. Mammoths in Siberia found frozen solid with green food in their mouths and stomachs support this hypothesis, seeing that it takes temperatures around -180C to flash freeze an animal of that size, where attempting to freeze it in the coldest sustained polar temperatures (-50C) would cause the insides to rot before they froze. The comet diluted the oxygen atmosphere to 20%, and the cold caused immediate global rain.

    The shear imparted by the impact caused massive earth quakes that caused a catastrophic failure of many underground oceans, which came jetting to the surface very hot and very fast, with the pressure of entire continents behind the flow. If these jets occurred on an ocean floor, they instantly killed the animals around the jet for miles, from whales to microorganisms, which fell to the ocean floor by the ton and formed diatomaceous earth deposits. Ask anyone who has ever worked at one of these mines, they constantly find all manner of sea fossils, including whales and other huge fossils sometimes buried vertically down through the deposit. The collapse of the ice shell, global drop in temperature and massive release of underwater reserves caused the entire planet to be covered in water. Almost everything on the planet died except for one man and his family and a baby pair of every kind (not species, kind: i.e. wolf/dog/coyote/dingo etc are all one kind).

    There are over 200 flood legends globally, and nearly all of them describe a global flood (95%) where one family of 8 people survived (88%). In one of the oldest languages, early Chinese, the word for boat is pictographic and is literally a vessel with 8 people. These people survived on this boat for about a ye

    --
    If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    1. Re:Groupthink misses the forest for the trees by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      For this to work, gravity would have to be some kind of non-binding suggestion instead of a law. And that's just the tip of the ice berg why this won't fly.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Groupthink misses the forest for the trees by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The only problem with this story is that it supports the Biblical account of the flood

      You don't see the problem with the ice shell and the other fantasy elements?

      Why can't there be a God if the world is older than 6000 years old? Is your version of God really that puny?
      Three of the four people who discredited the global flood fossil theory were ordained Anglican Priests FFS and they didn't think God was so puny that he would cease to exist just because some people were reading the Bible the wrong way.

    3. Re: Groupthink misses the forest for the trees by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      How do you get sedimentary and igneous rocks in 6000 years?

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    4. Re: Groupthink misses the forest for the trees by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      I meant sedimentary and metamorphic.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    5. Re:Groupthink misses the forest for the trees by blellow_party · · Score: 1

      > The only problem with this story is that it supports the Biblical account of the flood

      No, the only problem with this story is that there are literal mountains of evidence against it.

      For starters, there are overlapping tree ring data going back about 12,000 years in Germany, where the carbon dates agree well with the observed counts of the tree rings, and over 8000 years in California. From the wikipedia Dendrochronology page: "A fully anchored and cross-matched oak and pine chronology in central Europe extends back 12,460 years, and an oak chronology goes back 7,429 years in Ireland ,and 6,939 years in England. The consistency of these two independent dendrochronological sequences has been supported through comparison of their radiocarbon and dendrochronological ages. Another fully anchored chronology that extends back 8500 years exists for the bristlecone pine in the Southwest US (White Mountains of California)." These tree rings have been corroborated with carbon-14 dates (each reinforces the other).

      Likewise, there is a Japanese lake Suigetsu that has deposited annual layers of algae and diatoms, distinctly different in the summer and winter layers, that can be counted and measured with carbon-14 dates. This lake has over 45,000 annual layers that agree well with the corresponding carbon-14 dates.

      I'd suggest reading not just sources that agree with a pre-conceived timeline, but also those that disagree. If approached without cherry-picking, I think you'll find that the overwhelming quantity of evidence for the timeline that scientists have established is persuasive. It is perfectly possible to be a person of faith without adhering to a literal approach to scripture. (Suggestion: perhaps the biblical flood account did happen, but it was a more localized event.)

  51. # Why they changed it I can't say ... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    They knew it would eventually turn into Istanbul. They were just ahead of the curve.

    Bizarre thing. Until a few years ago I thought it was Istamul. Nobody ever called me on it.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:# Why they changed it I can't say ... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Bizarre thing. Until a few years ago I thought it was Istamul

      Was that back when you were a Byzan-teen?
      Thank you - you've been a great audience - try the veal.

    2. Re:# Why they changed it I can't say ... by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

      Do you have to be such a constant anal pole?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  52. Re:Not so innocent after all by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Where the hell did you get that? Yes, there were people driven by religious zeal and whatnot, but for most of the European nobility the crusades were a chance to conquer a land for themselves, for as second born they had no claim to the land the firstborn got.

    If you go down the list of noble participants of the various crusades, you will come up with a handful of landed leaders who wanted to ensure that the new "owners" will swear fealty to them and a huge number of landless nobles who wanted some.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  53. Re:Not so innocent after all by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

    Also to note the Crusades were not really about saving Jerusalem from those evil Muslims as some would like people to think. Jerusalem was under Arab rule starting in 638. The first Crusade was 1095. While news in the old world didn't travel fast, do you believe it took 400 years for the Christians in Europe to learn their beloved holy city was under Arab rule? Another thing to note: Jews fought along side Muslims against Christians in the Siege of Jerusalem in 1099.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  54. Re: Not so innocent after all by aberglas · · Score: 1

    Politically incorrect facts like these are not taught at school. So they do not exist.

  55. Re:Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And the muslim attack of Vienna and conquering of Spain was natural migration?

  56. Abos, Not Climate Change, Wiped Out Australian... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FTFY.

  57. Re: Not so innocent after all by Layzej · · Score: 1

    Like what? How is any of this political?

  58. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aboriginals lived an idyllic life of peace and harmony with nature until the evil white man cometh.

    (Not to say injustices were not done to them, but there is a strong political correctness about all of this.)

  59. Isn't Climate Change Human Caused to? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't climate change caused by humans too?

  60. Impact on Drop bears by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    An often overlooked side effect from the megafauna extinction is the increase in drop bear numbers which followed the
    extinction of their natural predators. It has been suggested that the aversion of drop bears
    to the odor of vegemite was an early behavioral adaption to avoid the giant wombat, whose fossilized feces show a chemical composition very similar to vegemite (remarkably, whether fossilized or not).

  61. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's commonly accepted narrative is that Aboriginal people were caretakers of the land until the white man turned up and "ruined" it.
    The suggestion that the Aboriginal people caused the extinction of multiple large species, probably by over hunting, or through large scale burn offs, conflicts with this narrative, and would largely be treated as sacrilege by some.

  62. Survival... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If your species can not out run, out breed, out eat, or out live what wants to eat you, the worst survival strategy your species can have is to be tasty.

    Tasting good is not a survival strategy.

    1. Re:Survival... by Demena · · Score: 1

      It is for horses, chickens, sheep, cows and pigs.....

      If your species can not out run, out breed, out eat, or out live mankind, the best survival strategy your species can have is to be tasty or useful.

  63. On the Australian Abo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ausfag here. Despite the 'Noble Savage' rubbish that comes out of academia today, dutifully lavishing praise upon the Australian Abo for his 'kinship with the land', reality is vastly different: the Abo was (and still is) a tremendously destructive force upon Australian flora and fauna as this article demonstrates clearly. Truth has given way to political correctness in the modern era, however, and in academic circles today the Abo can do no wrong. Going back just three decades one can find a wealth of information to counter today's narrative, but today it is nowhere to be found. Anything not strictly positive about the Abo has been suppressed, in a manner truly Orwellian: the unspoken rule being that it is not to be spoken of.

    While academics from Monash University contributed to the findings, funding for the research came from the U.S. National Science Foundation and the German Research Foundation, meaning that, unlike purely Australian-funded research, they were unable to paint it over with an explicitly pro-Abo narrative. The article was clearly written from the perspective of the human element of climate change, and the non-Australian co-authors didn't know (or didn't care) that they were treading upon sacred ground.

    I can't wait to see how the ABC and other progressive Australian media will try to spin this one. It will prove most entertaining - if indeed they try. More than likely this research will be consigned to the memory-hole. Then we Aussies can happily go back to worshiping the Abo, and hating ourselves, per usual.

  64. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're a ridiculous cunt of a revisionist making modern day bullshit from whole asscloth.

  65. Re: Not so innocent after all by dave420 · · Score: 0

    You are confusing the belief with the believers. That's what racists do.

  66. Was this in question? by sabbede · · Score: 1

    Maybe the headline should read, "Researchers confirm tradition theory of megafauna extinction - "We ate them.""?

  67. Re: Not so innocent after all by Layzej · · Score: 1

    Commonly accepted by who? The science has favoured Human impact as the explanation since before the turn of the century. Even Wikipedia shows this as the consensus view.

    Maybe this is an Australian thing? This idealized view of the native community would probably be considered mildly racist elsewhere.

  68. Re:Not so innocent after all by dywolf · · Score: 1

    be gone bigot.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  69. Re:Not so innocent after all by mjwx · · Score: 1

    Where the hell did you get that? Yes, there were people driven by religious zeal and whatnot, but for most of the European nobility the crusades were a chance to conquer a land for themselves, for as second born they had no claim to the land the firstborn got.

    If you go down the list of noble participants of the various crusades, you will come up with a handful of landed leaders who wanted to ensure that the new "owners" will swear fealty to them and a huge number of landless nobles who wanted some.

    Yes, religion was just the excuse used. As Napoleon sad "A man does not get himself killed for a piece of ribbon or a petty distinction, you must speak to the soul to electrify him". Men fought the crusades in the name of god, but the benefit of a few leaders, of course people being people, if told the truth would never have travelled half way around the world to fight and die for a few rich arseholes who were just being greedy, so they turn it into a holy war to get the peasantry whipped up into a frenzy.

    You know what, in the intervening 500 odd years, little has changed. Religious wars are still fought for the benefit of a few powerful arseholes. There is no such thing as a innately violent religion, only men who twist it to their designs. The only real change in this method is that some leaders have been forced to use newer justifications to get people to go to war for the benefit of rich arseholes, religion having fallen out of favour with the local populace.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  70. Demon Duck of Doom by jdharm · · Score: 1

    The best Australian megafauna name ever: the Demon Duck of Doom

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullockornis

    1. Re: Demon Duck of Doom by gzuckier · · Score: 1
      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  71. Inhofe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is one of those situations where there really was a difference between "climate change" and "global warming". The default position about 200 years ago was what Inhofe has reiterated: that humans cannot change the climate, and more generally that the climate has regular periodic cycles which even out in the long run. That was even the default position when Mr. Inhofe was schooled -- there are textbooks printed in 1950 that say as much. The one I saw was by Addison Wesley, and it explicitly assigned CO2 to a minor role.

    However, about 200 years ago, there was a growing body of evidence that the climate *had* been different in the past, and specifically for large Ice Ages. So our early theories of climate change, from say the 1830s to the 1930s, were mostly trying to explain Ice Ages, and that is actually what the originator of the CO2-based theory of climate change was studying. He based his study on the laws of atmospheric gases revealed by Tyndall in the mid-19th Century. His theory was completely discredited for a couple of reasons that were later overturned, but other lines of evidence and better observations eventually overturned both the theory that climate could not change and that humans could not change it. If Mr. Inhofe has not learned anything since his schoolboy days about climate, then he should be ashamed. If he is knowingly repeating falsehoods he should be removed from office.

  72. Re: Not so innocent after all by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    I'll tell the bison it's not our fault if you tell the passenger pigeons.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  73. Nonsense by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    Hmph. Fossils show that fauna have been becoming extinct for millions of years, therefore it can't be anthropogenic. It's just part of cyclical nature. Did these so called scientists ever investigate whether the sun was the cause of these extinctions? No, that would be too simple and obvious and would not fit their predefined liberal antihunting agenda. This is just a ploy by the paleontologists to keep the grant money coming in. They can't explain why there has been a pause in the extinction of megafauna for 16 years now.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  74. Re:Not so innocent after all by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    The ideas behind "three strikes" laws have approximately nothing to do with the reasons doctors want patients to take an entire course of antibiotics, and I don't see what either has to do with the Crusades.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  75. Ribwich by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The answer is that they were made into Ribwiches. Delicious, euphoria inducing, pupil dilating, Ribwiches! That is all.

    http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Ribwich

    Mmmmm... Ribwiches!

  76. Re: Not so innocent after all by Demena · · Score: 1

    I doubt it. To fear christ one would have to believe in him. And believe very strange things about him to boot.

  77. Re: Not so innocent after all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course they were caretakers of land, or do you think they engaged in regular bathing? We are still ruining it for them, but they are replying with IR faucets impossible to wash even your hands with.