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Microsoft Admits Sales of 'Expensive' HoloLens 'Not Huge', Says More Versions Are Planned (betanews.com)

Microsoft is not giving away too much about the sales figures for HoloLens but goes as far as saying it is "in thousands, not hundreds of thousands". From a report: Speaking at educational technology event the Bett Show in London on Thursday, Roger Walkden, Senior Director and Commercial Lead of HoloLens, acknowledged that the price tag was partly responsible for the small number of sales. Interestingly, though, Microsoft is not bothered by what could be seen as disappointing sales, despite the fact that the company seems to be betting big on HoloLens by adding headset settings in recent Windows 10 Insider builds. [...] But for anyone who feels let down by what HoloLens has to offer, there is good news: "this is version one, and there will be future versions."

69 comments

  1. They lied to investors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Class action lawsuit!!!

    1. Re:They lied to investors by bondsbw · · Score: 2

      Where did they lie? This was always a developer version, nobody seriously expected consumer-level sales figures.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    2. Re:They lied to investors by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      I'd been interested in Hololens when I read about it awhile back.

      I'd never heard announcements of them actually releasing it!!

      They certainly didn't advertise it very much...?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:They lied to investors by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      Right, the only announcement was for an expensive developer preview version. It's not consumer ready and was never marketed as such. In fact its main market, so far, appears to be commercial.

      That may change. They have been iterating and have shown interest in building out support for wireless vs. wired scenarios and AR vs. VR, and are bringing other OEMs on board. HoloLens 2.0 appears to be under development. And there seems to be a real interest in making it a first-class citizen in the Windows ecosystem (with existing UWP support as well as the Project NEON and Composable Shell rumors).

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    4. Re:They lied to investors by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      I'd love to get one myself, it looks amazingly fun....

      However, the drawback to me would be...having some requirement to have Windows 10 on any computer in my home....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  2. It's a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Holocause

    1. Re:It's a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Holocost

      fixed your shitty pun for you.

  3. Its all about margins. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesn't matter how many they sell as long as their is a very hefty premium mark up. This is the kind of space that Apple has dominated traditionally and Microsoft has wanted to gain a foothold in.

  4. Technology demonstrator and development platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Doesn't sell huge numbers.

    News at 11.

  5. up next by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Pence Admits Sales of 'Expensive' Wall 'Not Yuuge', Says More Versions Are Planned. Stay tuned for the weather.

    1. Re:up next by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Pence gets to say something?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:up next by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Also, how many could they sell? 2?

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  6. It was a dev kit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The first hololens was a dev kit and technology incubator, now I'm not saying it will ever be a block buster, game changing item, but I think AR has more uses that VR.

    I wonder how many dev kits Nintendo sold for the original NES or Sony for the original playstation.

    1. Re:It was a dev kit. by Luthair · · Score: 1

      I don't see why people think AR has more uses than VR. Overlaying something on reality is not only less useful but also much more difficult to program for.

    2. Re:It was a dev kit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because not walking into walls is good.

    3. Re:It was a dev kit. by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      VR has really only two uses- games and training sims. AR has a whole world of purposes- as many as you can think up. A whole universe of meta-information exists about everything you see, and can be displayed on demand.

      Granted it will be difficult to do well. But in the end VR will be for entertainment, AR will eventually integrate with every facet of your life.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    4. Re:It was a dev kit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Potential applications for AR: viewing manuals while you work on something. Wander around an unfamiliar city and see virtual signposts telling you where the nearest taxi rank, metro station, train station, a restaurant or other location you want to visit, meeting point for a group event or simply to find your way back to your hotel.

    5. Re:It was a dev kit. by jwhyche · · Score: 0

      Granted it will be difficult to do well. But in the end VR will be for entertainment, AR will eventually integrate with every facet of your life.

      Exactly. VR will have its uses but AR will be a complete game changer. Everything from the battle field to advertising will be changed. You currently have a world of information that you can access from almost anywhere. Now you have that information right in front of you.

      Now can anyone think of the down sides to this? Discuss.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    6. Re:It was a dev kit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is more right then you think.

      Airline Mechanics have asked for this kind of thing since the 90s. The idea that they could look at a part of a plane and for information to be made available for it. Anything form the correct torq on a bolt to a part number for inventory checks and stock reordering. This use case goes far far past Planes to. Industrial repair and maintenance when the lockout system is both physical and digital can allow for much better repair safety. Oil processing safety measures are lists so long they get glossed over, but a computer overlay can look at an object and say its a confined space and it's hot, and then recommend safety measures to be taken in a context friendly way.

      Giving a front line worker all of this information in a context friendly way can be a game changer for a lot of industrial processes.

    7. Re: It was a dev kit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can think of many use cases off the top of my head.

      Overlay visualisation of pipe flow over pipes in a chemical plant.

      Augmentation for pilots

      Augmentation for drivers.

      Interactive information at archaeological displays.

      Overlays of medical data during surgery.

      Overlays of data during training of surgeons.

      Overlays of information for those with dementia

      Overlays of information for rescue workers.

      And that's barely scratching the surface.

    8. Re:It was a dev kit. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I worked for a company back in the early 90's that tried to provide exactly what you are talking about. It was not AR, but just standard VR. Couldn't find anyone to buy it back then. But based on the parts cost (roughly $20,000) I am sure they were trying to sell it for around 50k or more. It always seemed like it could be a big market, and it was kind of sad it didn't take off.

    9. Re:It was a dev kit. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Now can anyone think of the down sides to this?

      advertising will be changed

      I found one.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  7. Ya think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have a Hololens and while it's cool, it's still pretty rough. The field of view is ridiculously small and the price tag is way too high.

    I have a lot of experience developing on mobile and embedded devices and find the MS tool chain to be a pain in the ass. I do admit that I'm pretty baised against MS for just about anything though.

    I have a meeting with a defense contractor next month about a possible project using the Hololens so it might be useful for something. If not, it will sit on the shelf next to my Powerglove.

    1. Re: Ya think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You forgot heavy and the difficulty some people have adjusting it so it doesn't sag on your face. It's cool to play with for about a half hour and that's it. And that tiny view port at arms length ruins any opportunity to get in close for a look. And a six foot ballerina is only in full view at about 5 meters distance otherwise it's a floating head or torso. Though, it's space tracking is amazing. I hope the next revision brings a more VR type view.

    2. Re: Ya think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will never strap a fucking Windows computer to my head. It would be far better to build an AR display that can be attached to different computers for different situations.

    3. Re: Ya think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having tried it out, I didn't have any problems with it sagging. I wasn't in it very long though. The FOV is definitely the biggest thing they have to improve. They need to expand it all the way out the the periphery. They don't need a lot of resolution outside of the existing FOV so it shouldn't take too much more processing power.

    4. Re: Ya think? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would never strap a computer to my fucking head

    5. Re:Ya think? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      I already have a Powerglove, but if you don't want your Hololens anymore, I might be persuaded to take it off your hands.

      --
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  8. In for the long haul by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They aren't in it for a quick buck. They want to build up the ecosystem and the technology.

    1. Re:In for the long haul by spacepimp · · Score: 1

      maybe they can send Stephen Elop to build up the core ecosystem.

  9. Needs an upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    I have tried the hololens for corporate use and it's impressive but it have some major drawbacks. The field of view is very small and needs to increase ninefold for the hololens to be really useful outside niche applications. The hololens also have limited use outdoor, it's lasers have limited detection range and it doesn't work in Sunlight.

    Right now, VR seems more useful but that might change.

    1. Re:Needs an upgrade by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A big space that I see where this technology would be very useful would be in flight training. Full flight simulators are extremely expensive and break down very easily. Flight Training Devices are cheaper but barely offer visuals (except level 6/7 FTDs) and in some cases don't even have physical controls and rely on flat panels to display the cockpit layout. Using AR/VR headsets along with tracking gloves (assuming low latency) would allow training programs to rely more on FTDs than on full flight sims, saving costs both in device cost and energy used as FFS's are more expensive than FTDs in both cases. Say $20k per FTD for 2-3 sets of gloves and 4 headsets (1 set glove/headset each for 2 students and an instructor, 1 headset for observer) and you could use FTDs for most sim training, reserving FFS's for check rides for type rating and maybe one or 2 classes of sim training prior to the checking event for familiarization with the sim and getting full motion feedback for maneuvers. It would also reduce cost further by just needing the control panels for feedback and dispensing with the half-cockpit layout that some FTDs have as the cockpit can simply be simulated in the headset.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    2. Re:Needs an upgrade by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      Obviously the product produces actual results that are not even close to the hype. Just like pretty much every other Microsoft product then.

    3. Re:Needs an upgrade by godrik · · Score: 1

      > The field of view is very small and needs to increase ninefold for the hololens to be really useful outside niche applications.

      The headset is not too heavy and is fairly balanced on your head. But I still wouldn't wear it out of very particular use cases. So I don't think it will in the current form ever be used "casually". It is going to be either for entertainment or for a particular business use.

      The field of view is a bit small, but I still can imagine dozens of applications even at that size. And frankly I do not see how a bigger field of view would make it more applicable: it would be nice, but that wouldn't change the game.

    4. Re:Needs an upgrade by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      Nah, it's better than that. It's like the GP says; the field of vision is very small. Imagine an invisible wall. Now put a window in the wall. You can only see the AR objects if you look through the window. If you look at the wall, you see nothing (you don't even see a wall; remember, it's invisible). That's the best that I can explain it.

      Does that mean the results don't meet the hype? Yes, depending on what you think the hype actually was. Microsoft never sold this as a consumer product. It was only offered to developers with a very high price tag. There was never any suggestion that this version of the product would be made available broadly.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    5. Re:Needs an upgrade by JustNiz · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about stuff like this:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    6. Re:Needs an upgrade by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      I'm talking about stuff like this:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Yeah, no. The current generation of HoloLens literally cannot do any of that.

      But the hardware still leaves you impressed when you demo it. It's a neat effect. Practical for some application? Not really.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
  10. They're selling it already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought it was obviously still in beta.

  11. Well, if they sold it... by squiggleslash · · Score: 5, Informative

    ...it usually helps to tell everyone you're selling it. Microsoft's marketing for this has been non-existent, to the point I double-taked when I read the summary and said "Wait, they're finally selling them?" I'm not seen a single ad, or even a review.

    ...which also means I'm inclined to believe Microsoft when they say "No big deal" about the low sales numbers. If they wanted higher sales numbers, they'd actually try to sell the things. It sounds to me that they're trying it out on early adopters, and will roll out a more consumer oriented system with full marketing once they and their customer base are happy with the product.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    1. Re:Well, if they sold it... by matthewcharles2006 · · Score: 1

      I was confused on this as well. For a long time I assumed it was being sold in the same manner as the Occulus development kits, the intent being for developers to begin tinkering with it in anticipation of a better retail release down the road. I don't recall ever seeing any software reviews or anything like that. Surely someone somewhere is making games for this thing, why haven't even game experiments popped up on sites like Polygon or Kotaku?

    2. Re:Well, if they sold it... by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      I think staying low-key is intentional, and smart. They know they have some issues (like the FOV) to work on, and they want devs to have the units so they can start finding ways to use them. One of the things that killed Google Glass was that they let it get over-hyped early on before it was close to ready for consumers, giving it to tech "celebs" to show it off and talk about it everywhere.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    3. Re:Well, if they sold it... by MrSteveSD · · Score: 1

      I really got the feeling that Hololens was just being used to create excitement around Windows 10, rather than being a serious product in itself. In their demos they just show you a composite video image rather than what is seen optically through the device, which is a highly misleading thing to do. The actual field of view is apparently terrible.

  12. They actually made the damn thing? by Guppy · · Score: 2

    Roger Walkden, Senior Director and Commercial Lead of HoloLens, acknowledged that the price tag was partly responsible for the small number of sales.

    Up until fairly recently, most news about the HoloLens seemed to present it as some sort of far-off research project, with little hope of a commercial product you could actually ever buy. That impression has probably contributed to a lack of hype and development of third-part applications, too.

  13. Half baked by backslashdot · · Score: 0

    It's not the price of the thing. If it was 5K per eye rolling at 120 fps .. it would have sold at $1000 each. VR done properly would be a mega hit. The current generation of VR is vomit inducing. It should never have been released. Oculus, Sony, HTC, and Microsoft have killed VR for a generation or two. We probably won't see VR emerge again for another 25 years. They could have avoided this by waiting 5 years until we had the technology to do it. Why release something before it works?

    What if the Ford Model T didn't have brakes? Automobiles would have been banned, the public would have gotten disgusted. Normally I am a libertarian but fuck that, we need government intervention to stop VR headsets from being released. Call the UN, call the FBI .. the FTC. The World Health Organization, the CDC .. I don't give a fuck. Ban VR for 10 years so that the technology can be ready.

    1. Re:Half baked by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's half baked and under heavy development. But if you disallow the release now, you pretty much make development grind to a halt. The only application that will get any widespread use is entertainment. And that in turn is heavily dependent on independent developers, since no AAA studio is going to drop money on something they eventually cannot sell.

      Look at 3D. Yes, it failed. But did it fail after the first failed implementation? Not by a long shot. It was a gimmicky, overhyped crap in the 50s, made a return in the 80s, now for TV, got revived in the 90s and again in the last few years with 3D TVs and shutter glasses. And it failed EVERY SINGLE TIME. And it was revived over and over again with the promise that now we got new technology that makes it viable.

      Yes, the current batch of VR toys will fail eventually. But VR in itself won't. Or, at the very least, it will not fail forever due to it. It will again become an issue in a few years. And again. And again. It's something that people want, it's something that can be marketed, being "inside the action" is something people want.

      They will jump onto it the next time it comes around. And then again the next time after that failed.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Half baked by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      You are mistaking what this is. It is not a VR headset and frame rate doesn't apply in the same as it would on a VR headset. It is an augmented reality headset. It scans the environment around you in order to make a real-time 3d model so that virtual objects can be overlaid on the real items you are seeing.

      From what I have heard, it works surprisingly well, it just has a small range of view. Presumably this is because of the high processing requirements of creating and maintaining a stable real-time 3d model.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    3. Re:Half baked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WTF are you on about?
      Vive is only vomit inducing when the the G forces on your body don't match what you're viewing. 10K per eye at 1000fps won't fix that.

    4. Re:Half baked by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      It's not the price of the thing. If it was 5K per eye rolling at 120 fps .. it would have sold at $1000 each. VR done properly would be a mega hit.

      A) it's AR, not VR. It's very different from the Rift and Vive

      B) It's priced at $3,000 for the Dev kit, $5,000 for the commercial suite.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    5. Re:Half baked by sir-gold · · Score: 1

      Have you actually tried the vive or the rift?

      If you tried one of the two, and it made you sick, especially if it was immediate sickness, then it's not the headset's fault, you are just one of the small percentage of people that simply can't handle VR (my mom is like this, she gets sick with 30 seconds). You will probably never be able to use VR in your lifetime, regardless of how far the technology advances, unless you either take medication or start building up a tolerance.

      It's pretty extreme to say that VR should be banned by the government just because YOU personally don't like it.

    6. Re:Half baked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      5K per eye at 120 fps and you are willing to pay a whopping $1000.

      Oh boy, let me start researching now! I can't wait to start selling you this miracle product at a loss! What your asking for doesn't exist, and will not exist unless the path is paved by companies willing to make devices now.

      I'm glad you weren't around in the 70s-- "these monochromatic monitors running on primitive tube technology? Why bother! Just ban all computing until monitor research gets me at LEAST 16 million colors and 1080p resolution (nevermind that the concept of 1080p doesn't exist yet because the groundwork hasn't been laid)! Anachronistic attributes of demands be damned!"

    7. Re:Half baked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think augmented reality will see widespread use - but they need to make it not look stupid on your face first.

      When you cant tell the difference between AR enabled vs a normal pair a RayBans - then, and only then will consumers be okay with it.

    8. Re:Half baked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This device does not have this flaw, instead they put a small window where information can be overlaid on the environment in real time. With a smaller window the higher refresh rate means that unless your riding a roller coaster or violently shaking your head, the enviroment and G-forces will match what you see, only you see more then what you did before.

    9. Re:Half baked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Christ, how can a five digit ID make someone so retarded?

    10. Re:Half baked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has nothing at all to do with the processing requirements. If that were the case, they could allow a mode that just shows wireframes or flat shading with 1% of the computing requirements.

      The field of view problem is an optical one. There isn't a way to make a display that you look through, with a wide field of view, that also sits comfortably on a human head, and is also in focus no matter where you're looking.

      Microsoft have mountains of money and haven't solved that problem. Magic Leap have mountains of money and haven't solved that problem, either. Same with whoever makes visors for fighter pilots - and they've been working on it for decades. There might never be a solution to that problem that isn't just a VR headset with cameras on the front.

  14. Is that really surprising? by DrXym · · Score: 1

    The thing costs a fortune. And even if it didn't, there are some pretty obvious limitations to what you can do with AR especially when it requires wearing a dorky helmet.

  15. Re:Technology demonstrator and development platfor by EvilSS · · Score: 1

    Doesn't sell huge numbers.

    News at 11.

    This. It's intentionally priced to keep end users away to keep it fairly low-key while devs are figuring out what they can do with it and MS is working the bugs out. Did anyone expect them to sell hundreds of thousands of them?

    Is making every story a hyperbolic click-bait crapfest the new normal now across the board? I mean, it's been building with politics but it seems that it's becoming pervasive in tech reporting now as well.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  16. I didn't even know it was on sale yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks, Microsoft!

  17. The HoloLens is targeted towards developers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The HoloLens is targeted towards developers, not consumers.

    Microsoft HoloLens Development Edition - $3,000.00
    Microsoft HoloLens Commercial Suite - $5,000.00

  18. Room 101 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The HoloLens is a research project for "Room 101" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_101) types of Enhanced Interrogation Techniques.

  19. Re:Technology demonstrator and development platfor by hodet · · Score: 1

    ....."Is making every story a hyperbolic click-bait crapfest the new normal now across the board?"

    I would say we have long past that time and we are all worse off for it.

  20. Good. Make this thing go away until it's done. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First off, not actual holograms. So stop calling them as such.

    Second: that field-of-view! Horribly limited versus what they imply you see.

    I love the idea, but it's a half-baked idea.

  21. Costs way too much by AuMatar · · Score: 1

    You really have two choices when it comes to new environments like this:

    1)You and a handful of picked producers come up with amazing intial content for the device and sell it with perhaps a limited initial niche.

    2)You crowdsource developing content to the masses and make it easy for developers to write awesome apps, and count on that converting into sales.

    It costs way too much for route 2- you really need to be sub-1K. The costs are in line for route 1, but then you aren't usually selling anything to the public at all- at least not until the content is done. They don't seem to know what they're doing here... or they plan on this being a tech demo for a few iterations.

    --
    I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
  22. Not bothered by poor sales? by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

    Just as they were not bothered by poor sales in the mobile space? Consider yourself middle-fingered, Microsoft.

  23. why? by smithcl8 · · Score: 1

    I still don't see the use of such a gadget. As it stands right now, 3D TVs are out of production. Google Glass is gone. We all have multiple devices with multiple operating systems, with data thrown at us all the time in 2D. I don't know that, in general, people can handle much more than we have right now. Is there really a market for this thing beyond some niche video gamers or maybe some kind of high-end flight trainers?

  24. Waiting for version 2.. by modi123 · · Score: 1

    For me the price is a large factor, but also being first gen tech. Version 2 should be all manna and honey, right? RIGHT?!

  25. Cen't resell either. by Swistak · · Score: 2

    Not only the price is insane, you cannot resell or rent it out either. And there's no warranty. At least in America since in civilised countries those types of EULAs are illegal.

    So basically if you Buy one for 3000$ It turns out it's a broken piece of garbage then you're fucked, you cannot even rent it out for others to form similar opinion. that's why there are no reviews, who'd buy such thing for such price and then throw it into garbage?

  26. Sales Not Huge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sales not huge - or in the world of Trump, the greatest selling product of all time!

    1. Re:Sales Not Huge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sales not huge - or, most of the sales were at the Redmond WA employee store at half price.