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Kickstarter Suspends Crowdfunding Campaign For Electronics 3D Printer (3dprintingindustry.com)

Kickstarter has suspended a crowdfunding campaign that promised its backers "a high-end multi-material 3D liquid jet printer" that could print circuit boards. Slashdot reader PrintBetter writes: With just three days to go, backers were pulling out of Next Dynamics' NexD1 Kickstarter amidst fears the creator exaggerated progress on their prototype and tried to pass off prints purchased from Shapeways as their own... [T]he Berlin company's campaign was a darling of Kickstarter, carrying their "Projects We Love" endorsement and receiving praise from publications like TechCrunch, 3DPrint.com and Make magazine for its purported ability to mix up to six plastic and conductive resins in a single print.

But as pledges grew to over half a million euros, backers started to sense things didn't add up. Kevin Holmes commented "Wow, I'm stunned -- I cancelled my pledge already ... Did they really buy parts from Shapeways and pass them off as their own?" while Anthony Webb remarked "I've backed over 100 projects on Kickstarter ... but this one takes the cake for a complete scam." The company was a no-show at events it scheduled this week, including a demonstration Monday and a live stream Tuesday.

52 comments

  1. "I've backed over 100 projects on Kickstarter ..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never underestimate the limits of people's stupidity. Kickstarter is simply a facilitator between rubes and crappy products, and keeps a sizable % of the contributions for itself.

  2. Re:Thanks Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of these days, Kickstarter, right in the pussy!

  3. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So Google is ordering more employees to stay in America and spend their money in America?

    Thanks Trump!

  4. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think it's a bit too early to have a chat about how Trump is saving America. Let's wait a year or so, then we can give him the praise he deserves.

  5. The difference being? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

    How is this any different than 90% of the kickstarters? Did they exaggerate just a bit too much?

    1. Re: The difference being? by Yosho · · Score: 2, Informative

      91% of Kickstarter projects that get funded deliver their products, so there's that.

      --
      Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
  6. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, when a racist scam artist comes to power typically things go really well for the country...

  7. Pastebin link - adblocker by SumDog · · Score: 0

    The pastebin link will not display any content if your adblocker is on.

    FUCK. THAT. SHIT!

    1. Re:Pastebin link - adblocker by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2

      Here's 2 PDF mirrors of the pastebin:

      https://www.docdroid.net/2MEWa...
      https://www.scribd.com/documen...

      And an Archive.is mirror:

      http://archive.is/q9E44

  8. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What did Trump do that was racist? People keep repeating this but where is the evidence?

    If you mean that he pointed out that the vast majority of crime in cities is from one race, that isn't racism, it's statistics.

  9. Smear Campaign or Legit Concern? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not seeing what the problem is other than missing deadline and poor communication and exaggerated "this is how it'll look and perform" videos.

    I'm willing to give benefit of the doubt at this point, because seemingly poor communication is endemic to creative people... As in they can get so busy working on the problem of the day (or even hour) that they suddenly flip to a state of ignoring the constant demands for a status update and just go into lockdown mode.

    I hate timelines anyway (although it's Next Dynamics' fault for creating one so linear). A timeline based in reality often looks like a toddler's crayon scribble, with many swirls backward and forward as the seemingly insurmountable roadblocks or 'cannot do it that way' moments stack up.

    1. Re:Smear Campaign or Legit Concern? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      Let's see - passing off a 3D print made by Shapeways (not the device in question).

      Doing things that are physically impossible (printing overhangs without support).

      Sounds like a good start to me.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Smear Campaign or Legit Concern? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      You can print limited overhangs without support on an FDM printer. Despite having a dual head printer (so I can print soluble supports), I've successfully got well over 45 degrees, probably nearly 60 on small parts. But you have to use a relatively thick bead and a really really really slow speed to get acceptable results.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re:Smear Campaign or Legit Concern? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Poor communication ?

      They had one of the founders posing as a happy backer who was so impressed he'd backed them again for a second machine !

      And they tried avoiding the points about the Shapeways saga, claiming they can't release the files due to copyright, totally ignoring the fact that the creator of one of those designs took part in the discussion pointing out that she'd never given them to anyone.

      Then they tried to wash over the whole "sandstone finish" by claiming it's a result of the support material used, but never explained why the whole print had that finish (you don't print supports over the top do you?).

      They've been caught out, but just don't have the balls to admit whatever the truth is and were hoping it would just blow over if they kept quiet.

  10. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You don't know what you are talking about. As someone who got my green card the legal way, I wholeheartedly support Trump's policy of strong vetting and curbing illegals. And definitely a lot more scrutiny on the H1B is required. Even in my company the H1Bs from a particular subcontinent were completely and utterly useless compared to the H1Bs from Europe (Except the French), China and Japan and their single reason of existence was manager bonuses, while we the H1Bs from EU/CN/JP had to do all the work at depressed wages (because of IN). I don't quite agree with the free reign to the corporation he stands for, but we will see.

  11. It's been a while since I made semiconductor by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

    conductor electronics, or even electronic circuit boards, but aren't all the conventional production methods essentially printing albeit with a mask (like a printed t-shirt), ot even mentioning epitaxy here. Usually there's an etching step in there too, but so too with "3d printing" and acetone vapor.

    1. Re:It's been a while since I made semiconductor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't just print out a circuit, much less a 3D object containing circuitry, with conventional techniques, with conventional techniques, it's a multi-stage process. And true, while you can print out, develop, and etch your own PCBs, you are really limited to single-layer boards, and frankly you get much better quality and options getting boards made professionally, which is something that can just about be done cheaply enough for hobbyists these days.

      However being able to print multi-layer PCBs yourself, as this printer allegedly claims to do, would be fantastic. And being able to print 3D objects containing circuitry already embedded would be even better. An object where currently you have to print the object, get PCBs made, drill and fit those together, and manufacture and fit wiring looms, could potantially all be replaced by one print!

      Shame that it seems bogus.

    2. Re: It's been a while since I made semiconductor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Electronic circuit made by litho/etch are generally planar boards or "flex" cables.
      These guys were claiming they could make a 3D multimaterial printer that could print conductive circuit traces along with the resin objects you were 3d printing.

    3. Re:It's been a while since I made semiconductor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > ...frankly you get much better quality and options getting boards made professionally, which is something that can just about be done cheaply enough for hobbyists these days.

          Just about? Domestic (as in Made in USA) double sided, gold flashed, plated through boards with solder mask and silk screen on both sides are less than $1.70/in^2 in quantities of three. If that isn't just about cheaply enough for hobbyists these days, how you could possibly have the budget for the components and solder? OSH Park -- no Kickstarter scams required.

    4. Re:It's been a while since I made semiconductor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same AC from the previous reply here. I don't live in the USA, and it costs considerably more than that in the UK, or it did last time I checked. I guess the whole maker community thing in the USA seems to be pretty big, and businesses are catering to that market, hence the low prices. Here, things are still prices more with an eye to the professional prototyping market than hobbyists, with prices commensurately higher.

    5. Re:It's been a while since I made semiconductor by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Semiconductors and circuit boards are made by lithography, basically a photography method, you make a design of your circuit including all the traces, then you project that onto an area of a light sensitive substrate, shine a really bright light onto it and then etch out (with chemicals) all the areas that had light on them. It gets more complex as you add layers.

      In the end all a circuit board is, is a very fine layer of copper. For small, one-off designs, the masks, the chemicals etc. is relatively time consuming and expensive. At home for very small repairs there are alternatives where you can simply draw traces with a conductive material (such as a pen). Technically, it should be possible to 'print' metal, but I can imagine drawing full, complex circuit boards would be insanely expensive and the machine and substrates themselves would be very rudimentary due to the melting points involved.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  12. Re:Thanks Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    golden shower from grabbed pussies?

  13. Re:Thanks Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the unfortunate result of liquoring them up first

  14. According to Kickstarter? Your imagination? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Just curious where you got that number. From Kickstarter? Does Kickstarter say that Kickstarter is often good?

    Of course on Slashdot, 83% of statistics come directly from the poster's imagination*, so that's a possibility too.

    * Including this one

    1. Re:According to Kickstarter? Your imagination? by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Over the past few years; i've chosen and backed a total of about 15 projects, and 100% of them ultimately did the project and delivered the backer reward they promised me, in a few cases there was a delay in expected timeline, and they wound up delivering even more goodies than promised....

      So I could come to the provisional conclusion that 100% of kickstarter projects deliver :)

    2. Re:According to Kickstarter? Your imagination? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Just curious where you got that number. From Kickstarter?

      Sort of.

      https://www.kickstarter.com/fulfillment

    3. Re: According to Kickstarter? Your imagination? by Yosho · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm citing a study done by the University of Pennsylvania . Do you have anything more reliable?

      --
      Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
    4. Re:According to Kickstarter? Your imagination? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Just curious where you got that number. From Kickstarter? Does Kickstarter say that Kickstarter is often good?

      Of course on Slashdot, 83% of statistics come directly from the poster's imagination*, so that's a possibility too.

      * Including this one

      Not every kickstarter is some "we'll make you a perpetual motion machine for $20" offer. The vast majority of them are easily funded mini projects often no different than group buy adventures from back in the day. There's a very wide variety of projects that are "finished" and just need funding to get shipped, e.g. pretty much most of the books and art sections, where the funding is going to the minimum production run required from a printer for example.

      I myself ran a kickstarter ages ago for a project which had a minimum order quantity for an electronics part. Nothing much to see. I had the entire design finished I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to end up with a box of 50 of the things and no way to get rid of them.

      So really the 91% figure is not at all surprising in the least.

  15. Re: Thanks Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's qualuudes brother...

  16. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You do realize that the travel ban applies to green card holders? The DHS confirmed that legal green card holders abroad will be turned away if from those countries.

    This is not smart policy.

  17. Why does their web page lack an Impressum? by ffkom · · Score: 2

    I would never invest into a company that does not even have an Impressum containing a postal address at their web page - and I could not find one at http://next-dynamics.com/

    At least the "Handelsregister" knows their postal address - Prenzlauer Allee 242, 10405 Berlin - so I guess those who still consider investing into them might want to take a look at what they invest into, there, first.

    1. Re:Why does their web page lack an Impressum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TIL what an Impressum is.

    2. Re:Why does their web page lack an Impressum? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and I learned what TIL means.

  18. As the old saying goes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I've backed over 100 projects on Kickstarter ...

    "A fool and his money are soon crowd-parted."

  19. Re:"I've backed over 100 projects on Kickstarter . by EvilSS · · Score: 0

    Eh, I've backed a few dozen and I would say about 95% I got what I was pledging for. Some failed to deliver but that's going to happen, there is an inherit risk to it. It's just knowing what to avoid, like hardware. I won't fund hardware projects, way too many of them fail. Sometimes it's due to outright fraud, but usually it's that they underestimate the actual costs of producing their products.

    Unfortunately most people think Kickstarter is some kind of store for new products and if it's on there, then they will absolutely get it, and get it on time (always assume any KS will miss their deadlines, people are really bad at estimating how long it will take to get to the end of a project and ship). KS needs to start making people sit through a training video with quizzes or something when signing up for an account.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  20. 3D printing is still a thing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought the 3D printing hype bubble exploded years ago?

  21. Re:Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like Donald Trump has gone from spreading racist lies about President Obama's birthplace to enforcing bigoted immigration controls so ham-handedly that Google is ordering many employees back into the country lest they get stuck outside our borders.

    Donald Trump's racism, incompetence, and bigotry are a stain that will stay with the United States like slavery and Jim Crow.

    Maybe we should chat about this in an article... just a thought...

    Aww you mean all their H1Bs might get stuck if they leave the country. booo-hoo

  22. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wrong! The people traveling back and forth with a flimsy connection to the US...those are exactly the people you want to ban.

  23. Thanks by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Thanks for that information, and the citation.
    Sorry if I was a bit skeptical.

    1. Re:Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was going to post snark here, but then I couldn't. We need more polite apologies on /. so well done, perhaps there's hope for America yet.

  24. Re: "I've backed over 100 projects on Kickstarter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Many people think kickstarter is a store because it looks like one. See something you like? Just fill out yoyr cc number and shipping address!
    This is intentional. They could make it more clear that it's not a normal store but that would hurt their revenue so they don't.

  25. Re: "I've backed over 100 projects on Kickstarter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Precisely. In some ways it's gotten better in that KS now requires that you have an actual prototype for any inventions, but they're insistence that they're not at all responsible for projects that wind up being scams is going to kill the platform if they can't figure out how to manage it.

    Early on, it wasn't as much of an issue because the only people who were on the site new they were effectively investing where the best case scenario would be what the campaigner was promising. Very bad business and a lot of these projects wind up on KS because it's an interest free loan and they can't get a loan elsewhere as they haven't got a viable business model.

  26. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's racist, he's just not any more racist than anybody else of his generation that didn't grow up around racial minorities. Most of it is overblown and the things that people cite are usually not evidence that he's racist. They're more often evidence that he isn't interested in encouraging immigration.

  27. Re:Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, heaven forbid the U.S. control its borders and ban immigrants from countries with a history of exporting terrorism. Maybe we should just throw open our borders like Germany, Sweden, France, etc. I mean, that's worked out so well for them, right? Nope, no terrorist attacks, rapes, no-go Sharia zones, or riots have resulted from THEIR enlightened immigration policy. Nope, just grateful happy refugees saying "Thanks, Europe." Guess they've already proven Trump wrong, huh?

  28. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who cares if they're terrorists or not - they're not *real* Americans so we don't want 'em! Specially if they're brown, right?

  29. Re: Donald Trump - Racist President by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You dumbass...a person with a green card is a lawful permanent resident, as in the closest to a citizen without being a citizen you can get. The connection is anything but tenuous. LPRs should NEVER be denied entry...they are permanent fucking residents...the fucking live here.

  30. Thanks for the house! by MindPrison · · Score: 1

    ...Suckers!

    --
    What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
  31. Robert X Cringely's Kickstarter project bust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hearing a lot about problems with Kickstarter projects lately.

    Robert X Cringely is involved with a kickstarter project that he seems to be hiding from after collecting $35k, promising in comments on his blog a long-awaited status update "in a few days" and still getting complaints about not following through 3 weeks later with updates on a project that was supposed to ship over a year ago and hasn't posted a status update in over 11 weeks.

    Kickstarter is looking more and more like a great place to get scammed. Caveat emptor, and don't assume you can trust a name you've been familiar with for decades.