Touch Bar MacBook Pros Are Being Banned From Bar Exams Over Predictive Text (techcrunch.com)

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Touch Bar MacBook Pros Are Being Banned From Bar Exams Over Predictive Text (techcrunch.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Tuesday January 31, 2017 @01:25PM from the eyes-on-your-own-paper dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: When it launched late last year, the new MacBook Pro's Touch Bar was largely reliant on first-party applications to show off what it could do. Since then, a number of other companies have jumped on board, helping the secondary screen grow into something more than novelty. Of course, as with any new technology, there's going to be some unanticipated downside. Test taking software company Examsoft, for one, believes the input device could help facilitate cheating among students taking the bar exam. What's perhaps most interesting here, is that the company's calling out one of Touch Bar's more mundane features: predictive text. "By default," the company writes, "the Touch Bar will show predictive text depending on what the student is typing, compromising exam integrity." It's hard to say precisely how the company expects a standard feature on mobile devices to help students pass one of the more notoriously exam out there, but The Next Web notes that some states have already taken action. North Carolina, for one, has required test takers with the new model MacBooks to disable the Touch Bar, while New York is banning the machines altogether.

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better idea by slashmydots · 2017-01-31 13:27 · Score: 0, Troll

They're trying to be taken seriously as a lawyer and they show up with a toy for rich idiots. I'd simply ban the person, not the macbook.
1. Re:better idea by ShanghaiBill · 2017-01-31 13:45 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  I am surprised that they would allow anyone to use their own computer. If the test taker controls the device, the opportunities for cheating are unlimited. And they can't rely on the honor system, since, hey, they are lawyers.
2. Re:better idea by AHuxley · 2017-01-31 13:58 · Score: 1
  
  Open book law exam in the past, now its open laptop.
  Just go back to open book.
  That would sort the people with educational skills from the ability to install a few mdimporters https://developer.apple.com/li... for spotlight searching.
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
3. Re:better idea by ShanghaiBill · 2017-01-31 14:29 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Open book law exam in the past, now its open laptop.
  "Open book" still requires the test-taker to do their own work. With "open laptop", they can be in collusion with another person who actually answers the questions. Lack of Wifi doesn't fix the problem because they could still use the cellular network, or have an ad-hoc network between two test-takers in the same room who share answers.
  Disclaimer: When I was in college, I made money taking tests for other people. In a 200 student lecture hall, nobody notices that. So I think I understand the "cheater" mentality. Many people will put more effort into cheating that what would have been needed to just study and pass legitimately. Part of it is just the thrill of "beating the system."
4. Re: better idea by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 14:35 · Score: 0
  
  Macbook Amature 2016 deserves to be banned. Leave people alone
5. Re:better idea by hcs_$reboot · 2017-01-31 15:28 · Score: 1
  
  The actual problem was the name. Folks at the justice dept thought the "touch Bar MBP" aimed at helping the Bar exam. Had Apple selected another name, like "touch panel" and everything would be fine.
  
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  Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
6. Re:better idea by AHuxley · 2017-01-31 15:36 · Score: 1
  
  Re 'taking tests for other people."
  Most university settings should try to stop that by using larger groups of tutors at doors looking at all photo id.
  Tutors might have huge numbers of students but know each face for that course by the final exam.
  Make all lab time or contact with a tutor part of the course so that students have to show up and interact with their tutor over weeks.
  Get all tutors to line up at the only door and move all students pass them with photo id out to take that exam.
  The wait for 200 students would be a longer but the merit of passing the exam and academic quality of a good pass would restored.
  Use other photo id, student photo id and staff to stop such exam issues.
  
  Re 'they could still use the cellular network, or have an ad-hoc network between two test-takers in the same room who share answers"
  If laptops are networking in an exam setting, university staff really need to re think their ways to test students.
  The quality of students will be junk and the reputation of any grades from that university will be well understood over the next few decades.
  Who would ever hire a student with fake grades after a few issues with past students? Word would soon spread about a generation from any university with fake paperwork.
  Employers would then be on alert for all such students over decades of graduates. The better background investigators in the US would also sell such details given their contact with a lot of brands and their issues with past staff.
  
  --
  Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
7. Re:better idea by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 16:35 · Score: 0
  
  Not sure what anyone is talking about. I took the bar a few years back, and it wasn't open book. You could use your own laptop, but you had to install a special software that locked you out of being able to do anything while taking the exam. Most lawyers, if not all lawyers are technologically inept.
  Perhaps for regular law school exams, they will allow you to use your book, depending on your professor, but most students would never actually bring their book, but make an "outline" of the whole course, that sums down the class in just a few pages, and work from that rather than flip through your book. If you have to flip through your book, there's a good chance that you are going to fail the exam instead.
8. Re:better idea by germansausage · 2017-01-31 17:28 · Score: 2
  
  My buddy Andy did the "write exams for other people" thing. He wrote the English 100 final exam about 10 times. Of course they check ID. The always did. You left your student card on your desk and while you were writing someone would walk up and down the rows checking ID. The thing is, Andy was Han Chinese, about 5'6" with medium length dark hair and glasses, so he looked like every second guy at the Uni who was writing the test.
9. Re:better idea by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 17:45 · Score: 0
  
  Examsoft locks down the computer and disables all communication. You can't tab out or switch to another program at all. Or, I guess you could if you hacked it, but then they'd just fail you. This is the same test you can't bring a watch or wireless mouse into (wired is fine but no keyboard other than in the laptop). The restrictions on the test are legion and there is no quarter given for violations. Last July during the CO bar one person wasn't allowed to sit, because he brought in a watch. He was told to leave.
  So, I guess you could use a cell network or ad-hoc network, but it better be transparent to Examsoft or you're out. And beside that, cheating on the bar is nearly the worst thing you can do. You don't have time to jerk around looking for an answer. I know in law school open book tests were harder than closed book, because you spent too much time looking for all the answers.
10. Re:better idea by Darinbob · 2017-01-31 17:56 · Score: 1
  
  And this has nothing to do with the touchbar at all. Predictive text is not a feature of the touchbar, it can be done on any computer. As for scrolling some text on the touchbar, well you can have an application do that on the screen as well.
11. Re:better idea by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 18:14 · Score: 0
  
  The thing is, even if you could hack the computer and enable communication, etc., there's a good chance another student would report you. Law school is ridiculously competitive. All exams are taken together in a lecture hall, if someone saw someone being able to alt-tab out of their screen, they would think something is fishy as hell.
12. Re:better idea by Opportunist · 2017-01-31 19:31 · Score: 1
  
  We're talking about exams of future lawyers. Not only is it highly unlikely they have the required skills, but weaseling out and cheating the system is pretty much part of the curriculum, and hence the qualification test.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
13. Re:better idea by volodymyrbiryuk · 2017-01-31 23:28 · Score: 1
  
  Is this a "all asians look the same" anecdote?
  
  --
  sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
14. Re:better idea by LordWabbit2 · 2017-02-01 00:10 · Score: 1
  
  Heh, I just learnt Cirth and wrote all the crib notes on my pencil case in plain sight. Not one teacher ever thought it was anything other than idle doodling.
  
  --
  There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
15. Re:better idea by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 00:27 · Score: 0
  
  Open book law exam in the past, now its open laptop. Just go back to open book. That would sort the people with educational skills from the ability to install a few mdimporters https://developer.apple.com/li... for spotlight searching.
  Yeah, exactly - getting a law degree shouldn't be based on computer skills, but on bullshit rhetoric skills.
16. Re:better idea by edtice1559 · 2017-02-01 00:52 · Score: 1
  
  Apparently it's all Asians look similar enough to the lab proctors that he got away with it when they did cursory ID checks.
17. Re:better idea by nealric · 2017-02-01 03:09 · Score: 1
  
  Most of my law school exams were open book, even if the bar was closed book. Even on open book exams, it was fairly rare for me to spend much time actually referring to reference materials. There wasn't enough time. If you hadn't already internalized the concept, there is no way you were going to figure them out from the book during the exam. The bar would have been the same way.
18. Re:better idea by TheRaven64 · 2017-02-01 03:10 · Score: 1
  
  It's more a the degree to which all asians look the same is greater than the degree to which all students look like their student ID anecdote. Seriously, get a group of a dozen students and compare them to their student IDs and you'll probably find that half of them could pass for the other half. Unless you have something completely blatant (e.g. completely different skin colour), you're probably within the acceptable variation for the invigilators not to notice or care.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
19. Re:better idea by retchdog · 2017-02-01 03:27 · Score: 1
  
  in the 00s, the FL bar exam was conducted on administered machines with a standard image. i'm personally very surprised that they allow laptops, though i guess i shouldn't be.
  (my friend who took the exam pwned it afterward by just booting from a live cd, but hey, at least they tried i guess.)
  
  --
  "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
20. Re:better idea by Half-pint+HAL · 2017-02-01 03:55 · Score: 2
  
  Is this a "all asians look the same" anecdote?
  No, it's more an anecdote about how id photographs are a very Caucasian-oriented biometric, given that our salient identifying features are more likely to be clearly visible in a small, slightly-blurry photo that often doesn't look a lot like the person it depicts. i.e. Caucasians have wide differences in hair and eye colour, and in hair type, and the same is not true to the same extent in non-white populations.
  Note also that the GP specifically said "Han Chinese", which is a lot more specific than "Asian", and once you're into a very specific ethnic group, other features like face shape and nose structure do tend to get more similar (which is true regardless of whether you're talking about a white or a non-white group) making cheating by impersonation easier.
  
  --
  Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
21. Re:better idea by Half-pint+HAL · 2017-02-01 04:07 · Score: 1
  
  And this has nothing to do with the touchbar at all. Predictive text is not a feature of the touchbar, it can be done on any computer. As for scrolling some text on the touchbar, well you can have an application do that on the screen as well.
  Presumably, though, the software that locks down the computer to prevent use of applications for assistance isn't able to block the predictive text software on the new Macs.
  I'm guessing that the predictive text function is either integrated at the OS level or implemented as an input-device driver, and the exam software can only interact with other software in the application space.
  Modern predictive text is likely to be very useful to a cheat, because you would be able to use it as a sort of memory for specific phrases -- batter the things you need into the keyboard three times a day and you'll be able to type two words and get the rest of the thing spat back out word by word, tap-tap-tap, on the TouchBar.
  Also, there's the issue of equitable time in the exam. Predictive text was implemented on phones first because even thought the early systems weren't great, they significantly sped up the process of writing on a phone. Now the systems are getting scarily good, and can speed up keyboard work. Thus someone with predictive text has a massive time advantage in the exam over someone who doesn't.
  
  --
  Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
22. Re:better idea by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 04:44 · Score: 0
  
  This does set a lot of your past political posts in a new light concerning "ethics".
23. Re:better idea by RoloDMonkey · 2017-02-01 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  I don't know if it is the same company or the same software, but I took a certification exam recently, and they are paranoid. They require you to install software that shares your screen and controls your camera and microphone. Some bored off-shore worker watches you the whole time. If you look away from the screen or keyboard too much, or they hear you talking they can invalidate the exam.
  
  --
  Long live the Speaker Bracelet
  Rolo D. Monkey
24. Re:better idea by david_thornley · 2017-02-01 11:27 · Score: 1
  
  Bullshit rhetoric is useful for a trial lawyer, but there are a lot of other skills. One is being able to write a good contract that will make it clear what is expected under all circumstances. If you hire a lawyer to write a BSR contract, and it goes to court, you're in for an unpleasant surprise.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
25. Re:better idea by Blaskowicz · 2017-02-01 12:58 · Score: 1
  
  Possibly, the exam software wasn't updated yet to block predictive text or the whole touch bar altogether.
26. Re:better idea by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-02 07:54 · Score: 0
  
  "A toy for rich idiots" always means "I wish I had one of those". No exceptions.
27. Re:better idea by lsatenstein · 2017-02-02 11:02 · Score: 1
  
  Open book law exam in the past, now its open laptop.
  "Open book" still requires the test-taker to do their own work. With "open laptop", they can be in collusion with another person who actually answers the questions. Lack of Wifi doesn't fix the problem because they could still use the cellular network, or have an ad-hoc network between two test-takers in the same room who share answers.
  Disclaimer: When I was in college, I made money taking tests for other people. In a 200 student lecture hall, nobody notices that. So I think I understand the "cheater" mentality. Many people will put more effort into cheating that what would have been needed to just study and pass legitimately. Part of it is just the thrill of "beating the system."
  Wrong. Search software can return phrases containing keywords from th exam question. Find the right phrases, cut and paste, and you have passed an exam, but are incompetent nevertheless.
  
  --
  Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
28. Re:better idea by rpstrong · 2017-02-03 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  Back in my high school days, LotR was in full popularity and I learned Tengwar well enough to take notes in Psychology class. I also used it to write the lyrics from "Days of Future Past" on one end of the stage lighting panel. I often wonder what future classes thought of it . . .
29. Re:better idea by Coren22 · 2017-02-10 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  Not really, I have no interest in owning a Jaguar, Mercedes, Bentley, etc. Why would a laptop that is functionally incompetent compared to its competition be any different?
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
unrealistic expectations by Osgeld · 2017-01-31 13:31 · Score: 2

real lawyers are stuck using windows XP on a 8 year old HP, cause its the newest thing that interfaces with the criminal justice system
1. Re:unrealistic expectations by MerlynEmrys67 · 2017-01-31 13:45 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  What do you mean XP?
  Lawyers are the only remaining people using wordperfect. The legal profession is so antiquated because any efficiency isn't needed. They bill by the hour - so if they worked twice as efficiently - they would have to increase their clients... What a sham of a profession.
  
  --
  I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
2. Re:unrealistic expectations by quonset · 2017-01-31 14:03 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  WordPerfect is far superior to Word so the lawyers are actually being more efficient. In fact, WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS is probably the most perfect word processing program ever.
  Anyone who ever used it can attest to the speed and ease of accomplishing things which in Word require burrowing down through ribbons to find what you need. In fact, once one became even moderately proficient in WordPerfect their hands rarely left the keyboard.
  Imagine being able to figure out why your tabs or paragraphs weren't lining up correctly through the tap of two keys which revealed all the hidden codes. Now imagine being able to instantly control how you wanted things to look rather than be at the mercy of some far off developer who didn't care what you wanted.
  Why pay an exorbitant amount for a bloated, convoluted piece of software when you already have something which is easier and more efficient to use?
3. Re:unrealistic expectations by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 14:05 · Score: 0
  
  Some architects use WordPerfect too, especially for government contracts. It's the line numbering - WP does it better than any other word processor. Try getting Word to number your lines on the outside of pages or on the right hand side of any page.
4. Re:unrealistic expectations by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 14:11 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sold. Switching to DOS now.
5. Re:unrealistic expectations by Zaelath · 2017-01-31 14:23 · Score: 1
  
  ^ This.
  WordPerfect is far superior to Word for producing text documents.
  Word is sold by marketing people to marketing people and forced on the rest of us.
6. Re:unrealistic expectations by hcs_$reboot · 2017-01-31 14:40 · Score: 1
  
  real lawyers are stuck using windows XP
  Yes, but the ones who would otherwise fail the bar exam are using MBPs
  
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  Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
7. Re: unrealistic expectations by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 15:05 · Score: 0
  
  Lawyers don't know how to use Word efficiently. Most of them have never even heard of style sheets, which, when used properly, can really speed up document creation, automatic reflowing when new clauses are added, etc. and style sheets have been in Word since the DOS days as well.
8. Re:unrealistic expectations by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 15:06 · Score: 0
  
  What was the best version of it? Seriously. I'll try it out.
9. Re: unrealistic expectations by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 15:22 · Score: 0
  
  If you have to reconfigure the ribbon to add the "Developer" tab in order to copy styles from another document you're on the level of the "Linux on the Desktop" people shouting that this is the year we all start futzing around with /etc/whatever/bullshit to get our graphics working.
  Efficient, my ass.
10. Re:unrealistic expectations by Darinbob · 2017-01-31 17:56 · Score: 1
  
  Better than Word at least.
11. Re:unrealistic expectations by EvilSS · 2017-01-31 18:04 · Score: 1
  
  Yea but how do they get their two dozen plugins loaded in WordPerfect? I was doing some work for a lawfirm and had to load up their default installs of word to read a doc. The screen was 70% toolbars. It was like trying to work on one of those old electronic word processors, one of the cheap ones with a 10 line display.
  
  --
  I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
12. Re:unrealistic expectations by don.g · 2017-01-31 18:25 · Score: 1
  
  +1 I am also old and miss reveal codes.
  Maybe we should train lawyers in LaTeX...
  
  --
  Pretend that something especially witty is here. Thanks.
13. Re:unrealistic expectations by Opportunist · 2017-01-31 19:34 · Score: 2
  
  Most lawyers I know are well versed in using latex.
  They just use it... it's just wrong, ok, let's leave it at that.
  
  --
  We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
14. Re:unrealistic expectations by bazorg · 2017-01-31 22:06 · Score: 1
  
  I did try that, out of curiosity. MS Word really does not allow much formatting on the Line Number Style. Font and size is OK, but the placement of line numbers seems to be fixed. Then I had a look at the WordPerfect instructions (normal and Reveal Codes) and... the same. Odd.
  Perhaps there is a legal convention that line numbers should always be on the right hand side of the paragraph? When searching for this I saw a few people trying to number lines on the outside and being asked to use Hebrew language in MS Word as a workaround. That's one kludge and a half!
15. Re:unrealistic expectations by hackertourist · 2017-01-31 22:50 · Score: 0
  
  Who modded up this drivel? WordPerfect is a steaming pile of excrement and its market share was obliterated by Word for good reason.
  The reason people liked the 'reveal codes' feature in WP is that you needed it to undo the clusterfuck WP regularly perpetrated on its own documents. The most common problem was incorrect nesting of code tags ([a][b] must be terminated by [b][a], not [a][b]). And woe betide you if you had a code tag that applied to more than one paragraph of text, good luck finding the matching start and end tags when they're 20 pages apart. If you were editing text and you accidentally deleted an end tag, your entire document fell over. This entire class of problems was eliminated by Word, which meant 'reveal codes' was no longer necessary.
  WP shares Word's biggest failings: 1. making it easy to apply formatting directly instead of using standardized styles, and 2. making the layout printer-dependent. Choose another printer and watch the program fuck up your page layout.
  Speed and ease of accomplishing things in WP? Someone who worked in WP all day for ten years could be fast. No faster than someone with the same experience in Word though. Features we take for granted in Word were painfully convoluted or entirely absent in WP. WP was severely lacking in discoverability and hostile to casual use.
16. Re:unrealistic expectations by MMC+Monster · 2017-01-31 23:01 · Score: 1
  
  Read the second sentence. ;-)
  Seriously, WP 5.1 was a fantastically good word processor. The problem was it took a little more time for people to learn how to use it than MSWord. And that was it's downfall.
  
  --
  Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
17. Re:unrealistic expectations by Gussington · 2017-01-31 23:17 · Score: 0
  
  WordPerfect is far superior to Word so the lawyers are actually being more efficient. In fact, WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS is probably the most perfect word processing program ever.
  So I'd be interested to know if this is so good, has someone created a version for the modern PC?
18. Re:unrealistic expectations by jeremyp · 2017-02-01 00:11 · Score: 1
  
  Word Perfect 5.1 was a wretched disaster. You had to have the "reveal codes" option switched on or you'd find your document full of unnecessary control codes. I came to it from Word for Mac and I couldn't believe how fundamentally wrong it was.
  
  --
  All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
19. Re:unrealistic expectations by cdrudge · 2017-02-01 00:41 · Score: 2
  
  Word is sold...
  I was about to comment that this alone puts it ahead of WordPerfect these days. But I checked and it's still sold. I guess I learned my new thing for the day already.
20. Re:unrealistic expectations by John+Allsup · 2017-02-01 01:55 · Score: 1
  
  And when writing in LaTeX, using vim, I can shave off those two keypresses required to reveal hidden codes. (Though way-back-when, I did use, and like WP51, except for one annoying bug which would insert an invalid character in a document, causing the document afterwards to jump to the start. That was when typing up A-level coursework against a deadline, and having learned to use a hex-editor, thanks to the joy of hacking savegame files, I figured out that you can edit the corrupted WP51 file in said hex-editor, and replace the invalid character with a space, recovering your work. Vim does not have this issue.)
  
  --
  John_Chalisque
21. Re:unrealistic expectations by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 02:37 · Score: 0
  
  Imagine being able to figure out why your tabs or paragraphs weren't lining up correctly through the tap of two keys which revealed all the hidden codes.
  Yes. Imagine being able to type Ctrl-* to show hidden codes. Oh, wait... (Tested in Word '97 through 2016, and it works fine across the board.)
  
  Why pay an exorbitant amount for a bloated, convoluted piece of software when you already have something which is easier and more efficient to use?
  Exactly. I already have Word 2016. Why would I bother with some ancient version of also-ran software that runs on a long-deprecated OS like WordPerfect 5.1 for DOS?
  Luddite retard...
22. Re: unrealistic expectations by TheRaven64 · 2017-02-01 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  This is because Word is designed with the same sorts of abstractions as something like LaTeX in mind. You are not supposed to edit styles unless you are the person creating the template for your organisation (and then you should be a developer, because you may need to integrate with various remote data sources, write wizards for selecting the correct subheadings for different document types, and so on). Normal users are meant to provide the content and select from predefined styles.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
23. Re:unrealistic expectations by TheRaven64 · 2017-02-01 03:17 · Score: 1
  
  And if you're using vim (or any other editor that has scripting), you can shave off a lot more keystrokes. I have F2 bound to a script that inspects the current word and replaces it with a template if I've defined a matching one, or if it doesn't then replaces it with a begin / end block with that words as the argument. Things like itemize, description, enumerate, table, and figure all expand to a skeleton with a single keystroke.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
24. Re:unrealistic expectations by The-Ixian · 2017-02-01 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  I upgraded a DOS/Novell CPA office to Windows XP/Windows 2003 (obviously years ago). It took me about a week, working 10+ hours a day (I was solo) to get all of their stuff migrated and working, backup routines set, network access configured and training done.
  One of their legacy programs that they absolutely would not let go of was WordPerfect. They all had the little function key overlays on their keyboards.
  I also ended up having to install DOSBox of all things to get one of their old calc programs to run under Windows.
  I would be willing to wager that they are still using that system and will be until Windows XP is as antiquated as DOS was in 2005 or whatever it was.
  
  --
  My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
25. Re:unrealistic expectations by ilsaloving · 2017-02-01 04:43 · Score: 1
  
  Ami Pro FTW!
Wait? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 13:33 · Score: 5, Insightful

Why are professional level tests being taken on a personal laptop? Shouldn't these tests be taken on the test company devices? Sort of like, I don't know... the SAT, ACT, GRE, and every other test?
1. Re: Wait? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 13:34 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Remember, this is a notoriously exam.
2. Re: Wait? by FatdogHaiku · 2017-01-31 15:00 · Score: 1
  
  Also,
  Of The Lawyers
  By The Lawyers
  For The Lawyers
  
  --
  You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
3. Re: Wait? by EvilSS · 2017-01-31 18:06 · Score: 1
  
  Yea but shouldn't the By The Lawyers want to make it as hard as possible for the For the Laywers to pass so they can keep all of the Of the Laywer to themselves?
  
  --
  I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
4. Re:Wait? by nealric · 2017-02-01 02:59 · Score: 1
  
  Because there is no test company. The written portion of the bar exam is written and administered by the state bars, who do not have the budget or the facilities to keep the thousands of computers at the ready for an exam that is only given twice a year.
5. Re:Wait? by The-Ixian · 2017-02-01 04:30 · Score: 1
  
  seems like a problem of their own making.
  They could just have a few computers set up here and there and then schedule access to them and do testing year 'round.
  I would think that a lawyers association would have enough operating capital to maintain a few hundred or fewer computers...
  
  --
  My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
6. Re:Wait? by tlhIngan · 2017-02-01 05:22 · Score: 1
  
  Why are professional level tests being taken on a personal laptop? Shouldn't these tests be taken on the test company devices? Sort of like, I don't know... the SAT, ACT, GRE, and every other test?
  It's an interesting situation. What happens is you, the test taker, downloads a piece of software that contains the test. It's keyed to you, and you can only download it once. You don't run the application until its test time, and the application asks you questions and you answer them. I'm not sure if answers are gathered with USB sticks or just transmitted through wifi.
  The funny thing is, the touch bar is entirely programmable, so if you're running this special examination app, the app can easily take over the touch bar and lock it down for the duration. It's how apps can modify the touch bar as needed depending on the application.
  (I'm still waiting for a modified version of gVim for macOS that turns it into a giant ESC bar).
  One of the things was they will allow another download of the test app if you happen to have this macbook.
7. Re:Wait? by nealric · 2017-02-01 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  How would they do that without divulging the test questions? To offer more than twice a year, they'd have to write quite a few more test questions, which they don't have staff for. The exam writers and graders do it as a temp gig.
  They also don't have permanent test location facilities. I took the exam in the basement of a convention center. Keep in mind that most states write their own bar, and especially with smaller states, the number of takers may only be in the hundreds. Also, it may take an entire day to take an essay exam consisting of only 5-6 questions- which makes options like an adaptive exam not possible. Centralized test centers and/or an adaptive exam might work for the multistate bar exam (which is a component of every state's exam), but that's 1/2 or less of the exam.
  In most states, the bars actually aren't that well funded. Despite popular belief, a lot of lawyers are far from rich, and bar dues need to be set so the public defender making $40k a year can still pay them.
Useful... by msauve · 2017-01-31 13:36 · Score: 5, Funny

"help students pass one of the more notoriously exam out there..."

Perhaps if the author had a MacBook, they would have made a less notoriously error.

--
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
as a lawyer... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 13:36 · Score: 0

honesrtly if youre using a laptop for the NY bar exam you are an idiot. The NY bar has been known to lose computer based materials, the exam software crashes and its best not to fiddle with electronics while taking the bar. youre better off doing it on old fashioned paper and passing it the first time.
1. Re:as a lawyer... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 14:46 · Score: 0
  
  Perfect practice for a candidate looking to move into municipal law, and I'm guessing lots of other fields too! Hats off to the bar people for capturing the reality of the job market, so many other computer based tests are done on locked down testing center computers, and using relatively stable software. Terrible! To really prepare for the real shit world, you need a real shit test.
2. Re:as a lawyer... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 17:48 · Score: 0
  
  I have to disagree. As someone who has taken (and passed) both the California and Texas bar exams I can't imagine taking a bar exam by hand. For all its faults and despite it being crappy software ExamSoft at least is a word processor. Bar exam essays can be complicated to write (particularly in states like California that have hour long essay prompts) and I found it much easier to create a bullet point outline and then expand it. The software allows cut and paste, and it features spell check. Basically it gives you a lot of features that aren't available if you choose to write it by hand. You also don't have to worry about your hand cramping up which is very likely to happen when you are scribbling like your life depends on it. If you look at pass rates for the last few years, generally speaking the typing pass rates are slightly higher than the hand written pass rates.
3. Re:as a lawyer... by EvilSS · 2017-01-31 18:12 · Score: 2
  
  I guess what I'm not getting, and since you've taken them maybe you can shed some light on it, is why it's bring your own device. I've taken dozens of computer based exams before, but always on the testing companies equipment, never my own. That just seems like it's asking for trouble.
  
  --
  I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
Paint me a picture... by SinShiva · 2017-01-31 13:39 · Score: 1

AS IANAL, I've not taken a BAR exam; having difficulty envisioning why this is a problem, or why laptops of any kind were previously allowed. If such a simple feature like this is enough to cheat on such an illustrious exam, then how can any faith be placed in the hands of lawyers that have passed the exam in the last 10 years. Or if this was merely a tool for already intelligent people that deserved their PASS, why do we care? ATM, i am imagining an 80 year old lady with a large ruler walking between aisles of desks and no comprehension of electronics since the Wheelwriter, failing students with their fancy illuminated gizmos
1. Re: Paint me a picture... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 14:33 · Score: 0
  
  Well, you've hit on the real problem: bar exam passage means exactly squat in terms of competence.
  My own experience is anecdotal, sure, but I've worked in the same legal field for 20 years with a break in the middle to go to law school. I know enough in other areas of law to be dangerous rather than helpful, but my skills and analysis in my area remained unchanged. That's with honors in a top-tier law school and a bar exam score that got me invited to help the state regulators update the exam.
2. Re:Paint me a picture... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 14:37 · Score: 0
  
  I also fail to see why the touchbar is a problem.
  I can't see that other students looking at the touchbar would be an issue, as the screen is upward facing, not user-facing - meaning that people behind you are less likely to see what is on the touchbar than they are to see what is on the screen itself.
  If the functionality of the touchbar is the problem - i.e. that there is a spell checker, and you require people to know how to spell, or that people can send messages to it - then surely all laptops should be banned, as all laptops could be loaded with spell checkers and messaging apps?
3. Re:Paint me a picture... by edjs · 2017-01-31 14:56 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  The testing software takes over the computer ("securely" according to the instructional video, FWIW) and doesn't let you switch out to other programs while you are in the test environment. It looks like the TouchBar bypasses that restriction.
4. Re:Paint me a picture... by omnichad · 2017-01-31 16:30 · Score: 2
  
  It looks like the TouchBar bypasses that restriction.
  It looks like they're too lazy to learn the API and turn it off. Software updates are for startups. Surely the program in focus has control at the OS level, right? You'd want the same for the rest of the keyboard (mostly).
5. Re:Paint me a picture... by meloneg · 2017-01-31 16:55 · Score: 1
  
  Seems a VM would be even better at bypassing the system. [obligatory lawyer slam] I suppose if they could figure that out, they wouldn't be taking the bar exam.
6. Re:Paint me a picture... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 22:14 · Score: 0
  
  I was asked to build a similar system for a client who wanted a "secure examination environment". There is no good way to do it. Even if you install what amounts to a rootkit, there is no infallible way to test if you're in a VM, any you don't control the hardware, so you're never 100% sure.
  If you want it to use computers and be secure, then supply the (crippled) computers in the invigilated exam room, for the purposes of the test only. Randomise their distribution each test, and ideally use some kind of locked-down thin clients that connect to your air-gapped single-purpose network.
  Or just use a pen and paper.
  I ended up writing up this proposal, but it was rejected because they wanted to allow people to "securely" take the test from home. Boggles the mind.
7. Re:Paint me a picture... by AmiMoJo · 2017-02-01 00:30 · Score: 1
  
  Updates to software like this are likely to be quite an involved process. The actual code is easy, it's the need to get it re-certified and then released, and documentation listing the correct version to be used for each exam updated.
  It's a common problem with software that requires certification. Simple fixes and updates are so time consuming that it's often necessary to issue guidance for a work-around while it's happening.
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
8. Re:Paint me a picture... by Chelloveck · 2017-02-01 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  The testing software takes over the computer ("securely" according to the instructional video, FWIW) and doesn't let you switch out to other programs while you are in the test environment. It looks like the TouchBar bypasses that restriction.
  
  Oh, if there's any justice at all in the world all the exam software will do is pop open a window that reads, "You let someone else load software onto the same laptop you use to work on client cases? YOU FAIL!"
  
  --
  Chelloveck
  I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
not surprised by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 13:48 · Score: 0

I'm not surprised. A friend of mine took the New York bar last year and "got in trouble" for bringing a wireless mouse to the exam. Apparently being wireless makes it a huge security/cheating risk?!?
1. Re:not surprised by Imrik · 2017-01-31 14:52 · Score: 1
  
  Could also be due to interference issues if their systems are as bad as others have suggested.
Revert to the Curmudgeonly Bar Exam by Thunderstruck · 2017-01-31 13:54 · Score: 1

When I took the bar exam I had to use pen and paper, and we LIKED it that way!
Honestly though, I think there comes a point when if you want to test a person solely based on what they're able to keep in their head, you'll have to exclude most technology.

--
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
1. Re:Revert to the Curmudgeonly Bar Exam by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 14:26 · Score: 0
  
  My first thought on reading this was "the hell??? Since when have computers been allowed in exams?" We weren't even allowed calculators in our exams at uni.
2. Re:Revert to the Curmudgeonly Bar Exam by djinn6 · 2017-01-31 14:45 · Score: 1
  
  At some point, testing what's in their head would become pointless. If every practicing lawyer had access to an instantly searchable database of case law, then what's the point of testing them on their ability to memorize them?
  
  I would say the majority of existing tests are testing knowledge rather than aptitude, because aptitude is very hard to test. How do you test whether the lawyer can make a convincing argument in front of a jury? How do you test whether they can find that one email that implicates the defendant out of tens of thousands of emails? How do you test whether they can settle a case for as much benefit to their client as possible? Sure, there's things I expect a lawyer to know, like all the procedural tricks that can get evidence thrown out or unsympathetic jury members kicked off, but I imagine most of what makes a good lawyer good cannot be tested with a pen-and-paper test.
3. Re:Revert to the Curmudgeonly Bar Exam by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 17:22 · Score: 0
  
  When I took the bar exam I had to use pen and paper, and we LIKED it that way!
  And yet every real lawyer is expected to know how to get their paralegal to search lexisnexis for relevant case law. Depending on ones memory for case law would perhaps be cause for a losing party to file a claim for inadequate consul.
  It is not about knowing the law, it is teaching one how to think. Testing for thinking is hard. So too many tests fall back to testing for rote memorization. FAIL.
4. Re:Revert to the Curmudgeonly Bar Exam by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 17:49 · Score: 0
  
  Since the time the graders didn't want to try and read your stupid fucking handwriting. And by "your" I mean mine. It takes real humans months to grade the exam and that's spending about four minutes per typed essay. I imagine that time goes way up if they are all handwritten.
5. Re:Revert to the Curmudgeonly Bar Exam by EvilSS · 2017-01-31 18:21 · Score: 2
  
  My first thought on reading this was "the hell??? Since when have computers been allowed in exams?" We weren't even allowed calculators in our exams at uni.
  That reminds me of something my calc I prof told us before our first exam: "Bring any technology you want, I know the limits of your calculators and mathematics software. I write my exams accordingly." He wasn't kidding. If you knew the material you could finish his exams by hand easily. Try to slide by and use a graphing calculator or even something like Mathematica and you probably wouldn't finish the exam before the end of class, much less pass it. Really loved that class.
  
  --
  I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
answer me this by avandesande · 2017-01-31 14:14 · Score: 1

Would you hire a lawyer that doesn't use computers as part of their practice? I am a pretty good programmer, but if I don't have all my resources in front of me I have a hard time talking about it (ie don't interview well)

--
love is just extroverted narcissism
1. Re:answer me this by nealric · 2017-02-01 03:03 · Score: 1
  
  The justification for the bar exam being closed-book is that a lawyer making an oral argument or in trial will, at some level, have to memorize the law. Also keep in mind that the bar exam doesn't necessarily reward rote memorization so much as internalizing the concepts. You don't need to memorize the law verbatim- you just have to be able to be able to recite and apply its meaning.
It's hard to say... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 14:17 · Score: 1

"It's hard to say precisely how the company expects a standard feature on mobile devices to help students pass one of the more notoriously exam out there"
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Ignoring the whacky sentence grammar... If you're asking how it helps students, it's easy- you can edit a list of substitutions in Mac OS X (sorry, OS X- nope, sorry about that too, MacOS- erp, no, I guess it's macOS now) and assign substitutions to various words of your own choosing. They don't have to be dictionary words either, just strings of alphanumeric characters separated by spaces. The touch bar will pick up on these and offer them to you as you're typing.
It is therefore possible to associate "cheatstring1" with "Useful information you shouldn't have access to", "cheatstring2" with "Even more useful information you shouldn't have access to", etc. As you start to type in the appropriate string, the TB will try and suggest the replacement you've previously configured in System Preferences.
1. Re:It's hard to say... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 14:29 · Score: 0
  
  Er, wouldnt you just have a text file with the "useful information" on the laptop? And open it up?
2. Re:It's hard to say... by itsenrique · 2017-01-31 14:48 · Score: 1
  
  You are being watched though...
Not easy, but Cisco does a reasonably good job by raymorris · 2017-01-31 15:13 · Score: 2

Multiple choice type questions are of course easy to put on a test. There are many other choices, though. Cisco does a reasonably good job of testing skills on their certification exams. Even the entry-level exams include simulations and questions that require you to understand how and why things are as they are. Cisco's most advanced certifications *combine* a computerized test with in-person interviewing.
1. Re:Not easy, but Cisco does a reasonably good job by TheRaven64 · 2017-02-01 03:27 · Score: 2
  
  Multiple choice exams are among the hardest to write, unless you expect everyone to get close to 100%. It's easy to write a question and work out what the correct answer is. It's hard to pick 3-4 other answers (distractors) that look as if they might be the correct answer, if you misunderstand one particular thing. For the big exam boards, multiple choice exams typically take at least 3-4 times as long to prepare as ones with free-form answers (they're popular because the preparation costs are a one-off expense that doesn't scale with the number of people taking the exam, whereas the costs of marking scale linearly with the number of students and the constant multiplier per student is vastly lower with multiple choice, especially with CBT where it's almost zero). There's a bunch of recent research on designing multiple choice exams for use as part of the learning process, to specifically identify misunderstandings so that teachers can focus on the things that the students need help with.
  Add to that, you need a variety of different item response curves for each question group so that you can use them to discriminate at the different grade boundaries.
  
  --
  I am TheRaven on Soylent News
2. Re:Not easy, but Cisco does a reasonably good job by david_thornley · 2017-02-01 11:42 · Score: 1
  
  I took an Oracle Certified Professional test once. The general idea seemed to be that they'd say what you were supposed to do, and then provide four ways to do it that you'd never write in real life, three of them with more or less subtle problems.
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Unlikely by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 15:13 · Score: 0

The exam can't be that bad if it's cracked by predictive text...
Cooks's hateful... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 15:26 · Score: 0

Lack of RAM proves he hates us and wants us to die. He has refused to increase the amount of RAM in MacBooks for his entire rulership of Apple. He hates us so much. Halting progress for seven years is just pure hate. Pure hate.
1. Re: Cooks's hateful... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 15:29 · Score: 0
  
  He said he wants all men to be raped anally until they either die or become a fag. This is more proof of that since fags hate tech and want to destroy it. Limiting the memory to such a small amount is hatefull.
2. Re: Cooks's hateful... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 15:38 · Score: 0
  
  Fags hate RAM.
3. Re: Cooks's hateful... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 15:57 · Score: 0
  
  Apple is right that you don't need more memory.
4. Re: Cooks's hateful... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 16:10 · Score: 0
  
  That must be why they haven't allowed us more RAM since April 2010.
5. Re:Cooks's hateful... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 16:14 · Score: 1
  
  The lack of RAM in MacBooks is Intel's fault since they decided to only support 16 GB over seven years ago and haven't agreed to allow more.
6. Re: Cooks's hateful... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 17:13 · Score: 0
  
  This. Intel's fault.
7. Re: Cooks's hateful... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 00:56 · Score: 0
  
  And by "they" you mean Intel, who still doesn't support low power DDR4.
Duh by pipingguy · 2017-01-31 15:48 · Score: 1

Just cause it has a touch bar doesn't mean it'd help students taking the bar exam.
It would have to be trained for "legal" text by thesandbender · 2017-01-31 16:10 · Score: 1

If anything... the built in predictive text app is going to be a nuisance because it's trained for common text, not for latinglish that is legal text. For example.. if I type in "quid pro q" on my iPhone, I'm prompted with "q" "quality" and "queen" (I'm assuming that the iPhone and the Touchbar use the same predictive engine). It also fails "ad infinitum" and "de jure" and several other phrases that have made it into common vernacular. There's no chance that it's going to predict terms used on bar exams. I have a feeling that someone just read "predictive" and freaked out... without actually trying it.

/ IANAL, just too much catholic school.
// Latin is a dead language, as dead as can be. It killed off all the Roman's and now it's killing me.
1. Re:It would have to be trained for "legal" text by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 00:16 · Score: 0
  
  Ah, catholic school...
  Is there anyone who ever comes out of there *without* a thorough appreciation for the schoolgirl uniform?
  Every year my friends and I (we all graduated from one) feel more and more like aging creeps because that... never seems to go away.
2. Re:It would have to be trained for "legal" text by thesandbender · 2017-02-01 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  Agreed... I just like the hips under it to be a little wider now :-)
3. Re: It would have to be trained for "legal" text by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 02:31 · Score: 0
  
  Killed off all the roman's what ?
  How do you go on and on about education and Latin and then suck at English ?
  I barely graduated public school, so I haz excusez.
4. Re:It would have to be trained for "legal" text by nealric · 2017-02-01 03:07 · Score: 1
  
  I am a lawyer. I agree that autocorrect can be a huge nuisance when typing legal documents. I suppose if the Mac predictive text app has a good learning algorithm, it's possible that it could help a text taker remember the exact wording of a statute, but I find it hard to believe it would be a material benefit to a bar exam taker.
can you runing the testing software in a VM? by Joe_Dragon · 2017-01-31 16:50 · Score: 1

Some of the software is crappy and it's lock downs act like spyware and other junk ware that does stuff to make it hard to quit out of it / force quit other apps / lockout alt-tab / task manager / etc.
What will happen when windows defender flags it?
does the MPB have the battery for the test? by Joe_Dragon · 2017-01-31 16:56 · Score: 1

does the MPB have the battery for the test? as an usb based any thing other then the backup proctor usb stick to save the test to if the wireless fails. Is an no no.
1. Re:does the MPB have the battery for the test? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 00:49 · Score: 0
  
  does the MPB have the battery for the test? as an usb based any thing other then the backup proctor usb stick to save the test to if the wireless fails. Is an no no.
  Could you repeat that in English?
Re:why is slashdot silent by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 16:56 · Score: 0

May be .... because this is a tech forum and we have enough whining as it is to add the bitching and whining from political fanatics like you who are nothing but sore losers.
In other words, go to political forum and do all your whining there and let the rest of the world enjoy life.
Things have changed since I took the bar exam by fl_litig8r · 2017-01-31 17:04 · Score: 1

When I took the Florida bar exam back in 1996, you could only use a typewriter on the essay portion, and that typewriter could have no memory. I find the predictive text issue to be fairly minor compared to other abuses that could result from people being allowed to use their own laptops.But, hey, these are future lawyers we're talking about, so I'm sure they're all 100% trustworthy.
the Touch Bar will show predictive text... by jgullstr · 2017-01-31 20:00 · Score: 1

I wonder if they also noticed, that right next to the touch bar is another screen with the same capabilities!
No predictive text app for non-touchbar macbooks?? by AC-x · 2017-01-31 20:39 · Score: 1

Is there no predictive text app for non-touchbar macbooks? Or PC laptops? Really? Is Apple paying them to say that to make touchbar macbooks sound special or something?
TouchBar a gimmick by Anonymous Coward · 2017-01-31 23:50 · Score: 0

I think a screen behind the touchpad would have been more useful than a narrow touchbar. Apple to me has zero innovation for real advancement. Even though I don't think the PC industry is doing much better with touch screens. It at least has a mature ecosystem to serve if you are inclined to use a touch screen.
WordStar bitch!!!!!!! by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 00:58 · Score: 0

WordStar or GTFO!!!!
1. Re:WordStar bitch!!!!!!! by The-Ixian · 2017-02-01 04:10 · Score: 1
  
  Bank Street Writer 4 lyfe!
  
  --
  My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
2. Re:WordStar bitch!!!!!!! by Coren22 · 2017-02-10 06:30 · Score: 1
  
  Vi!
  
  --
  APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Idiots by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 01:55 · Score: 0

So they are worried the person will type 'superbowl' and the predictive text / autocorrect will offer 'superb owl' as a replacement (just like my sister's phone did yesterday)? Wow, lame.
1. Re:Idiots by irving47 · 2017-02-01 04:42 · Score: 1
  
  the NFL would probably sue them for including that word.
  
  --
  I had a sucky sig.
BYOD insanity by Pinky's+Brain · 2017-02-01 03:11 · Score: 1

I thought allowing people to bring their own devices to work with critical company data was insane, but this takes the fucking cake.
BYOD is one of the most insane concepts the IT industry has come up with, which given their track record is pretty damning.
1. Re:BYOD insanity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-01 05:12 · Score: 0
  
  Where can I have some of this fucking cake?
computis nan grata? by irving47 · 2017-02-01 04:40 · Score: 1

So they're being barred?

--
I had a sucky sig.
This is for the same reason...... by BlytheBowman · 2017-02-01 04:41 · Score: 1

...that you are allowed to use only use certain models of calculators for SAT tests and math courses as opposed to just using a scientific calculator app on your smartphone. What I don't get here is 1) Why they don't force students to use the school provided computers 2) they are only targeting touch bar MacBooks when any laptop can be loaded with software to help with cheating, and be much more secretive about it. Sorry, but this is an epic fail on the school's part.
better idea, bar none by Blaskowicz · 2017-02-01 09:27 · Score: 1

Bar exam sets a high bar. Touch bar barred from bar exam. Barred bar student barfs on the students bar. Bar bars bar student barred from bar exam.