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We Finally Have a Computer That Can Survive the Surface of Venus (arstechnica.com)
Planet Venus is one of the most inhospitable places in the solar system. The surface temperature there is 470C (878F). This has been one of the key challenges that has prevented us from deeply exploring Venus. Normal chips can only function until around 250C, but it appears, we will soon have a computer that can withstand Venus' weather. From a report on ArsTechnica: Now, researchers out of NASA's Glenn Research Centre appear to have cracked the other big problem with high-temperature integrated circuits: they've crafted interconnects -- the tiny wires that connect transistors and other integrated components together -- that can also survive the extreme conditions on Venus. The NASA Glenn researchers combined the new interconnects with some SiC transistors to create a ceramic-packaged chip. The chip was then placed into the GEER -- the Glenn Extreme Environments Rig, a machine that can maintain Venus-like temperature and pressure for hundreds of hours at a time. The chip, a simple 3-stage oscillator, kept functioning at a steady 1.26MHz for 521 hours (21.7) days before the GEER had to be shut down.
"We Finally Have a Computer..."
"...we may soon have a computer..."
From the don't-count-your-chickens dept. ?
Since supposedly men are from Mars and Women are from Venus, it's good to see they've finally created a computer that can survive women.
/ sorry, I'm not really sexist
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
How, as an editor for a tech site, do you hire someone who can't even recognize a total goof in the summary intro? The PRESSURE at the surface of Venus is 90x that of earth.
I'd understand if you had one or two editors posting hundreds of stories a day - one might slip through. But you're barely posting one story an hour to the front page. How do you fuck that up?
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
Except 0 is arbitrary in Farenheit... Average Earth temp is 287 kelvin, average Venus temp is 735 kelvin. So really it's only like 2.5x hotter than Earth by any objective measurement. Otherwise you could say a 1 degree F day is infinitely hotter than a 0 degree F day and mathematically on an arbitrary scale, that would be correct.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
First, a computer is a whole lot more than just a chip. How about boards, wire runs, resisters, transistors? But the atmosphere of Venus contains massive amounts of toxic gasses. If we have a computer chip that operates at high temperatures, what is it made of and how quickly does it break down inside the atmosphere of Venus?
So not only don't we have a computer that works on Venus, we don't have chips that work on Venus. TFA says that they may have a chip that operates at high temperatures but since it has not quite been invented yet we can't test the viability of said chip in Venus' atmosphere. Not only am I cynical, but I'm really tired of the chronic hyperbole in seemingly everything.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
The statement was "the hard bit is not being cremated by the surface temperature of 470C (878F) or crushed by the atmospheric pressure, which is about 90 times that of Earth, the same as swimming 900 metres under water".
It's the atmospheric pressure, not the temperature, that is about 90 times that of Earth
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Except 0 is arbitrary in Farenheit... Average Earth temp is 287 kelvin, average Venus temp is 735 kelvin. So really it's only like 2.5x hotter than Earth by any objective measurement.
Only if you assume a linear scale. Given how much of the interesting stuff happens near 0 K, and how little difference there is between 10,000,000 K and 100,000,000 K, I would think it would be better if we started treating temperature as a logarithmic scale.
Or, put another way, the 448 degree difference between 287 K and 735 K is obviously a lot less significant than the 287 degree difference between 0 K and 287 K.
That extreme pressure should keep them from exploding
To be clear, we don't have a computer that can survive on Venus, or anything near that. What the research team made is a ring-buffer, which is a collection of maybe 20-30 transistors arranged in a big circle (with one inverter).
That's a very far cry from even an Intel 8080, which is approximately 4500 transistors. And that's without any RAM, Flash, or anything else. This is an impressive milestone to be sure, but it's nowhere near an Arduino (let alone a full computer).
---- I'll take you in a Hunt deathmatch any day.
470C? Oh please, my AMD chip runs at least twice as hot as that. ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Your refrigerator's heat pump is a phase-change coolant system (i.e. enormous coefficient of performance), working against a small temperature difference (perhaps 20K), with a small heat flux (A few watts of heat seeping in). These performance specs are pretty much trivial to meet, which is why modern fridges are pretty much sealed, lifetime-performance units. The reason why is that the amount of work a heat pump has to do is proportional to the SQUARE of the temperature difference: The amount of heat leaking in, and the amount of work needed to expel a given amount of heat, are both proportional to delta-T. Keeping a well-insulated box 20*c cooler than its surroundings is easy. Really easy.
INITIATE SIMPLE BACK-OF-ENVELOPE ENGINEERING PLAUSIBILITY ANALYSIS
Supposing we want to keep the inside of a Venus probe down to a mere... 100*C? Now we have a 330 degree temperature difference. That's 17x the temperature difference in your coldbox: The venus probe's fridge will have 275 TIMES the work to do per unit area & insulation. Shit.
Suppose the probe is a silvered ball 2 meters in diameter. Let's plug in... 30mW/m-K and give it a 250mm thick aerogel insulator all around its inside surface. That's roughly 500W of heat leaking in from a 430C ambient, and we haven't put ANYTHING through the aerogel (like the supports for the probe's internal goodies...) which will send that through the roof.
The radiator itself is a fairly simple matter - only 800cm^2 of outward facing blackbody surface, heated to 500C, will dump our waste heat into a 430C ambient. I don't know nearly enough about refrigeration technology to say what a mechanical refrigerator capable of pushing 500W of heat up a 400* difference will look like... My first google search brought up a unit capable of dumping 500W in the vicinity of room temp across probably a 20C difference (HRU-1000) which fills .012 cubic meters. Naively scale it to do 270x the work, that's eating 3.2 cubic meters of probe volume in order to keep the inside down to a blazing 100*C. Our 2-meter-diameter probe, with 250mm of aerogel shell, only has 1.7 cubic meters of internal volume.
We're out of space twice over and we have no atomic power supply, no scientific instruments, no computer, no radio to talk back to earth... Also I don't think the world's remaining Pu-238 stockpile can build a themionic generator capable of powering that fridge, but that's a "minor technical detail."
Heat leakage scales as area, volume scales as volume, so the situation gets better for bigger probes. Fat chance of that, seeing as the last Saturn V is sitting on its side in pieces... There's no way a usefully chilled Venus surface probe happens in the realistic near future.