Google's Not-so-secret New OS (techspecs.blog)

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Google's Not-so-secret New OS (techspecs.blog)

Posted by msmash on Wednesday February 15, 2017 @03:20AM from the inside-andromeda dept.

According to reports late last year, Google is working on a new operating system called Andromeda. Much about it is still unknown, but according to the documentations Google has provided on its website, it's clear that the Fuchsia is the actual name of the operating system, and the kernel is called Magenta. A tech enthusiast dug around the documentations to share the followings: To my naive eyes, rather than saying Chrome OS is being merged into Android, it looks more like Android and Chrome OS are both being merged into Fuchsia. It's worth noting that these operating systems had previously already begun to merge together to an extent, such as when the Android team worked with the Chrome OS team in order to bring Update Engine to Nougat, which introduced A/B updates to the platform. Google is unsurprisingly bringing up Andromeda on a number of platforms, including the humble Intel NUC. ARM, x86, and MIPS bring-up is exactly what you would expect for an Android successor, and it also seems clear that this platform will run on Intel laptops. My best guess is that Android as an API and runtime will live on as a legacy environment within Andromeda. That's not to say that all development of Android would immediately stop, which seems extremely unlikely. But Google can't push two UI APIs as equal app frameworks over the long term: Mojo is clearly the future. Ah, but what is Mojo? Well it's the new API for writing Andromeda apps, and it comes from Chromium. Mojo was originally created to "extract a common platform out of Chrome's renderer and plugin processes that can support multiple types of sandboxed content."

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If it gains popularity by Big+Hairy+Ian · 2017-02-15 03:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

If it gains popularity when will Google pull the plug on this one?

--
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
1. Re:If it gains popularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 03:44 · Score: 1
  
  OUCH !
  At some point Google have to remain committed to marginally- or non-profitable businesses just so they do not lose EVEN MORE respect from developers !
2. Re:If it gains popularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:03 · Score: 0
  
  Hmm, let's see. Search, still there. Mail, still there. Maps, still there. Android, still there. Etc, etc. So a few devs get butthurt because they bet the farm on some Google project that didn't really take off and got cancelled. Groupthink aside, there's no really solid basis for this "meme". Google would be dumb not to cancel things that don't take off the way they'd like, deal with it.
3. Re: If it gains popularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:11 · Score: 0
  
  Plenty of solid basis for this meme, just check the list of applications they built then abandoned.
4. Re:If it gains popularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:58 · Score: 0
  
  I know that was meant to be snarky, but you do have a point. It's not just Google either...there are so many software components that become the new hotness every year, then six months later they're abandoned for even newer hotness. How many hundreds of JavaScript frameworks are out there? CMS platforms? Continuous integration tools? Whole languages? It's hard to keep up because once you work on one of these and they're abandoned, it's hard to find support. As a result, there's a constant series of 180 degree shifts in the development world.
5. Re:If it gains popularity by johannesg · 2017-02-15 05:14 · Score: 1
  
  Ads, still there. Everything that does not somehow help with selling ads - gone.
6. Re:If it gains popularity by darkain · 2017-02-15 05:26 · Score: 2
  
  And thus why I always love the constant bitching about the classic LAMP stack here on Slashdot. Yeeeup, this is what I work with in my day job. Yeeeup, this has been what I've worked with for a decade now. Yes, I'll continue to use it, too. Yes, it has its flaws, but it is extremely well supported, and has a very clear support and development structure moving forward for the next 10 years.
7. Re: If it gains popularity by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 19:37 · Score: 0
  
  And the one thing all the alphabet services you mention have in common now ? Ads and tracking..
  We won't mention the huge list of popular services/hardware that alphabet have failed to update/closed or cock-uped one way or another..
  More and more fools walking into alphabets walled garden with their eyes wide open,but who will all complain in a few years time when they realise that they are totally at alphabets mercy because they are locked into alphabet for everything that they own or use..
What is an OS? by lucasnate1 · 2017-02-15 03:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

Why do we refer to a userspace infrastructure/UI API as an OS? Are KDE and GNOME OSes now?

--
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
1. Re:What is an OS? by BarbaraHudson · 2017-02-15 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  It's all marketing, babe! Just look at how bloated "apps" are, and how shitty the performance is. It's pretty bad when an "app" takes up more space and resources than a full-blown desktop application.
  
  --
  "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
2. Re:What is an OS? by squiggleslash · 2017-02-15 03:47 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  We refer to them as part of an OS. An OS is kernel + userspace. The original author's comment can be explained by his disclaimer at the end that he's not a programmer and may have gotten much of the terminology wrong.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
3. Re:What is an OS? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 03:48 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Because without userspace infrastructure, this would be called a kernel?
4. Re:What is an OS? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 03:57 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe a virtual machine running on a kernel running on a hypervisor? It's kernels all the way down...
5. Re:What is an OS? by YukariHirai · 2017-02-15 04:14 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  While generally a valid complaint about the way people talk about operating systems, the article does mention that they're replacing the Linux kernel here.
6. Re:What is an OS? by sinij · 2017-02-15 04:17 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe a virtual machine running on a kernel running on a hypervisor? It's kernels all the way down...
  The real programmers manually load their boot loader that they personally wrote in assembly on every reboot, and like it!
7. Re: What is an OS? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:26 · Score: 0
  
  Insert disk and press enter....
8. Re:What is an OS? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:27 · Score: 0
  
  Who needs an OS when you can just code in your bootloader?
9. Re:What is an OS? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:01 · Score: 0
  
  GNOME is, KDE is not.
  Next question...
10. Re:What is an OS? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:39 · Score: 0
  
  Are KDE and GNOME OSes now? they would like you to think so, look at the integration with SystemD, your desktop his now hard-depending on an init system that wants control over you bios partition.
11. Re:What is an OS? by ubrgeek · 2017-02-15 06:08 · Score: 1
  
  > It's kernels all the way down...
  
  Nope. It's all ball bearings nowadays.
  
  --
  Bark less. Wag more.
12. Re:What is an OS? by Tough+Love · 2017-02-15 07:02 · Score: 1
  
  Why do we refer to a userspace infrastructure/UI API as an OS?
  Post-truth.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
13. Re: What is an OS? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 09:19 · Score: 1
  
  Thats right, linux kernel is the whole operating system, and it is being replaced here now. And that is THE news in whole article.
  First time for long time a article really means "new OS" when they write so.
  And yet some idiots want to come and say that things aint so that OS is something else than Linux Kernel.
14. Re: What is an OS? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 10:26 · Score: 0
  
  An operating system, in common parlance, is the ecosystem (API) on which a set of apps can operate. iOS and MacOS are different OSes, and to some extent even different distros of Linux are different OSes based on this. Per this definition, recent desktop Windows (8 & 10) is now actually two linked OSes, since the average user does not know or understand what APIs like Win32 or UWP are, but do understand that some hardware can run Windows Store apps but not "desktop" apps, this making UWP-only builds (like Windows Phone and Windows Cloud) a "different OS" in their eyes.
15. Re:What is an OS? by PCM2 · 2017-02-15 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  If you can't run it on top of Emacs then it must be its own OS.
  
  --
  Breakfast served all day!
16. Re:What is an OS? by Pseudonym · 2017-02-15 15:22 · Score: 1
  
  Because we always have. The term "operating system" has always referred to the foundation software on any machine, from the kernel to the standard operating environment.
  
  Are KDE and GNOME OSes now?
  No, but they can form part of an OS.
  
  --
  sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
17. Re: What is an OS? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 19:20 · Score: 0
  
  So the Android system is not an operating system? It was Linux all along?
to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 03:29 · Score: 4, Insightful

Chrome OS and Android are both untrusted, and inherently untrustable OS's. I would never allow one of them to run on any hardware I owned due to Google being a marketing and data harvesting company above all else. That is in their DNA and pervasive in their software which exists to collect as much of your data as possible.
Merging them into one OS is not going to make that any better.
1. Re:to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 03:45 · Score: 1
  
  No it won't, but it reduces costs for Google (good for them), and focuses development efforts on one system. (Good for us.) Maybe this means it will bring real multiuser support to our phones. (Something Android lacks).
  Hopefully the new "OS" will continue to be open source like Android, so that we can update it ourselves when the enviable carriers refuse to update the damn thing.
  Although, I'm wondering about those ChromeOS devices. Alot of school systems bought into those because they were cheap. Is Google going to keep supporting them once Andromeda takes off? If Google stops supporting them, the backlash will be pretty severe.
2. Re:to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 03:51 · Score: 0
  
  Well, if the free software community can have Chromium OS and Replicant + F-Droid, then it can do the same with Fushcia.
  The hard part in all cases is building enough of a community around the project to make widespread adoption. My personal privacy has no value to me or to democratic society if 99.999% of the people I interact with share all of their data with fifty different corporations and through them a number of governments.
3. Re:to what end? by fustakrakich · 2017-02-15 04:02 · Score: 1
  
  To what end? That will depend on licensing. If it's not open source, then we will know
  
  --
  “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
4. Re:to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:17 · Score: 0
  
  So you either own an iPhone or Western Electric Princess landline telephone?
5. Re: to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:22 · Score: 0
  
  Multiuser phones? What?
6. Re:to what end? by slashdot_commentator · 2017-02-15 04:31 · Score: 2
  
  If Google stops supporting them, the backlash will be pretty severe.
  Ridiculous. Any chromebook that is updateable can have its OS replaced with Andromeda.
  
  --
  There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
7. Re: to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:36 · Score: 0
  
  I suppose I should have said "tablets" not "phones". Where I work we have tablets that are basically kiosks, but because of the fact that Android doesn't support user logons, we have a hard time getting them past our network based security systems. (Basically on a normal workstation, they'd login and their user info is sent to the security device automatically, and the security device gets notified by the workstation when they logout. That doesn't work for Android however, as it lacks a real user login component. So our users have to login manually, and relogin after a given timeout period. That difference is a never-ending source of constant complaints from the end users.) Having real multiuser support would be very welcome where I work. Although that support would also be useful for phones for the exact same reason.
  On the consumer front, having that support would be useful for permission separation / parental controls, but of course Google would never allow that for obvious reasons.
8. Re:to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:46 · Score: 0
  
  Unless Google decides to do evil and want some money for the upgrade. Not to mention we still don't know the final requirements yet.
9. Re:to what end? by hodet · 2017-02-15 04:59 · Score: 0
  
  May as well add Windows and MacOS/IOS in there as well. Just as bad.
10. Re:to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  Neither. Why would you assume those are the only possibilities?
11. Re: to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  https://www.cnet.com/how-to/getting-started-with-user-accounts-on-android-5-0-lollipop/
  What the hell are you going on about? Some manufacturers chose not to integrate the functionality, but there's most definitely an isolated user system in there.
12. Re:to what end? by tepples · 2017-02-15 09:05 · Score: 1
  
  Any chromebook that is updateable can have its OS replaced with Andromeda.
  If the update isn't official, the user will have to enable developer mode to install it. And once the device is in developer mode, its firmware will complain to the effect "OS verification is off; please press Space then Enter to wipe this device and reinstall stock Chrome OS" every time it's turned on.
13. Re:to what end? by tepples · 2017-02-15 09:08 · Score: 1
  
  Because the Nokia N900 and other Maemo/MeeGo phones weren't sincerely marketed in Slashdot's home country. When N900 was still in production, none of the carriers nor Best Buy had ever heard of it.
  And because Windows Phone 7, Windows Phone 8.1, and Windows 10 Mobile appear to have failed to gain a substantial user base.
14. Re: to what end? by stevedog · 2017-02-15 11:07 · Score: 1
  
  Can you explain how this would be evil? Frustrating, yes, but especially if they also continued to update Chrome OS for free in parallel for a while, I find it hard to call that "evil."
15. Re:to what end? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 19:57 · Score: 0
  
  Chrome OS and Android are both untrusted, and inherently untrustable OS's
  That's strange. Both Boeing and the Secret Service seem to disagree. But what do they know, they are only tasked with developing the most secure device possible. They aren't experts like you.
16. Re:to what end? by squiggleslash · 2017-02-16 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  The solution to that is patching the firmware.
  ...yeah, I don't like that either. But it can be done for most Chromebooks out there (maybe not the ARM Chromebooks right now, though it's hard to imagine it's impossible if it's possible for the IA Chromebooks)
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
"the kernel is called Magenta." by Nutria · 2017-02-15 03:39 · Score: 1

Replacing Linux with a home-rolled kernel?

--
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
1. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 03:45 · Score: 0
  
  Not necessarily. They can call the Linux or BSD kernel (or their fork of it) they way they want.
2. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by geek · 2017-02-15 03:54 · Score: 1
  
  Replacing Linux with a home-rolled kernel?
  Yes and at present it is closed source.
3. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:07 · Score: 0
  
  Android has long been based on Gentoo or so I've heard. I'd imagine that they have been rolling their own curated version of the main-line kernel since the beginning.
  Sounds like this whole project is an emulation/compatibility layer for the oldest parts of Android, the newer parts, and Chromium OS to all run on top of their customized Gentoo.
4. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by sinij · 2017-02-15 04:13 · Score: 0
  
  Replacing Linux with a home-rolled kernel?
  Yes and at present it is closed source.
  I am NOT an open source ideologue, however, with Google closed source kernel could only mean that snooping is baked-in at the kernel level. They are not in business of selling OS, so I couldn't think of any other reason to close source it.
  
  They should have named this kernel Tom, as in Peeping Tom.
5. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by geek · 2017-02-15 04:14 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Replacing Linux with a home-rolled kernel?
  Yes and at present it is closed source.
  I am NOT an open source ideologue, however, with Google closed source kernel could only mean that snooping is baked-in at the kernel level. They are not in business of selling OS, so I couldn't think of any other reason to close source it.
  They should have named this kernel Tom, as in Peeping Tom.
  Its entirely likely they will open it up eventually. Right now its early R&D phase. Time will tell I guess.
6. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:17 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  Are you sure? It's right here: https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/magenta
  MIT license. Are we talking about the same thing?
7. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:17 · Score: 0
  
  False.
  https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/magenta/blob/master/LICENSE
8. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  Well, MIT licensed, so they can keep the "base" kernel open-sourced and while the snooping bits in the user-installed binaries stay secret.
9. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:00 · Score: 1
  
  Well, MIT licensed, so they can keep the "base" kernel open-sourced and while the snooping bits in the user-installed binaries stay secret.
  This. Google has always been extremely anti GPL, to the extent that they have effectively banned it for internal projects. The reason is clear. If the user has the right to see the snooping then the user would likely choose to remove it.
10. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:09 · Score: 0
  
  You don't need kernel access to install snooping bits.
11. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:22 · Score: 0
  
  it has a linux kernel, but the userspace looks nothing like gentoo and never did.
12. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by RevDisk · 2017-02-15 05:24 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  https://github.com/fuchsia-mir...
  
  Unless I'm way off base, there's the kernel.
13. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  You can do the same thing with Linux which allows proprietary closed-source kernel modules.
14. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 06:14 · Score: 0
  
  http://www.zdnet.com/article/the-secret-origins-of-googles-chrome-os/
15. Re: "the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 06:55 · Score: 0
  
  If they don't open it up, the Linux community could always try to make Linux work with it...
16. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 07:08 · Score: 0
  
  Mostly Google would close source the kernel to keep idiot vendors and OEMs out of it. They want to avoid a rash of shitty Android tablets and phones.
17. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Tough+Love · 2017-02-15 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  MIT license or equivalent is an absolutely necessary ingredient for Google's final descent to full evil.
  
  --
  When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
18. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by tepples · 2017-02-15 09:09 · Score: 1
  
  I guess we'll have to wait for shipping devices to see if the kernel on the phone is identical to the kernel in the repository.
19. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 14:57 · Score: 0
  
  It would be silly to ship a different kernel. It is a microkernel (minikernel). Customization will not be as important as a monolithic kernel. They will certainly modify the user space.
20. Re: "the kernel is called Magenta." by tidepool · 2017-02-15 15:13 · Score: 1
  
  And society as well! Aptly named license! We will share all our knowledge but we'll also throw a bunch of little tiny seeds in there that will grow one day to believe that the economic system we live in now is the best, America is the best place on earth, and that we have always been at war with the bad guys! (We've almost always been at war.)
  It's the subtle little seedlings that do the heaving lifting. You just gotta give it time!
21. Re:"the kernel is called Magenta." by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2017-02-18 01:50 · Score: 1
  
  Correction: the thing that will actually sell will be closed source.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
The NUC isn't humble by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 03:51 · Score: 2, Informative

Just because it's small doesn't mean that it's humble. With i7's and 32G ram they easily out perform the humble mac mini which used to be a new development, throw in a closet and let it run box.
I'm running ESXi with decent results as well as other home lab experiments. (NVR, etc)
1. Re:The NUC isn't humble by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:16 · Score: 0
  
  I was going to say the same. There's nothing "humble" about the NUC - perhaps the author is confusing the NUC with some of the older, low-powered Atom CPUs?
  (and the NUC isn't a CPU)
Andromeda Ascendant? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 03:58 · Score: 0

I knew Google was advanced, but I didn't think they were THAT advanced.
lol by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 04:02 · Score: 0

it needs to run Play store and apps natively. If doesn't then gooooogle just stop pls...
Is Google slowly dropping Java? by randomErr · 2017-02-15 04:04 · Score: 1

Since much of this already exists in Chromium, does that mean that Google is pushing for JavaScript / Progressive Web Apps? You could have lighter installs of application or just links to web apps run. It almost sounds like they're going the Firefox OS route.

--
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
1. Re:Is Google slowly dropping Java? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:13 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Since much of this already exists in Chromium, does that mean that Google is pushing for JavaScript / Progressive Web Apps? You could have lighter installs of application or just links to web apps run. It almost sounds like they're going the Firefox OS route.
  Google has been threatened with serious problems by Oracle with Java. Google was effectively forced to build an alternative with zero Oracle input in it so that, if they had lost the suits, they had a place to go with their products. Now that it looks like Oracle is losing, there's a chance that Java based stuff will survive long term, however the groups that sprung up with alternatives will not be killed for a long time. They now have a chance to kill Java in Google or at least take its crown as the leader. Perfect example of the killing the goose that could be laying you golden eggs. Oracle could easily have sat there and profited from their ownership of java by merging the Android and JVM environments. Instead they will likely damage even their corporate ecosystem.
2. Re:Is Google slowly dropping Java? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 10:28 · Score: 0
  
  Dropping Java sounds wonderful, but replacing it with web apps is about the only imaginable thing that would be worse. If only Google would embrace golang and build a proper GUI on top of it. The Go language/runtime is portable, fast, safe, and integrates well with legacy code. The development environment is also infinitely more pleasant.
  The idea of a portable bytecode isn't bad, but the JVM is a terrible implementation and doesn't map well to actual hardware. The Mill Architecture provides a much better abstraction, that is friendly to both language and hardware implementation. Admittedly the hardware is years off, but the idea is sound. In the mean time, dumping Java in favor of a portable language/runtime would still be a net benefit. The Go backend is SSA based and would also map well to a Mill, though anything would be preferable to the status quo.
3. Re:Is Google slowly dropping Java? by squiggleslash · 2017-02-16 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  I think they're going more for a language/framework agnostic route. ChromeOS was all about web technologies, but I think a sizable impetus around NaCl was that web technologies were always going to be limited and inefficient.
  I don't think NaCl is their long term bet, I just seriously doubt they'll try to get people to write everything in JavaScript. The major issue is that web browsers seem to double in memory requirements every two or three years, and are slower today on modern hardware than they were on low end hardware ten years ago.
  Java served a purpose with Android. It is/was relatively easy to write relatively efficient, low bug count, complex applications using Java, in a way not possible with most other languages. At the same time a new generation of programmers were exposed to Java's bureaucracy and other flaws, said "Ew", and have been waiting for a good, Google supported, alternative. I don't think Google has picked a successor yet.
  
  --
  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I will name him George by jfdavis668 · 2017-02-15 04:08 · Score: 3, Funny

and I will hug him, and pet him, and squeeze him
1. Re:I will name him George by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:35 · Score: 0
  
  I AIN'T NO BUNNY RABBIT!
Four legs better by T.E.D. · 2017-02-15 04:26 · Score: 1

I'm old enough to remember when OS's and browsers were completely separate things, and tying them together was something only monopolists did.
1. Re:Four legs better by Attila+Dimedici · 2017-02-15 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  Well, Google is a monopolist.
  
  --
  The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
2. Re:Four legs better by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:12 · Score: 0
  
  Yep, and I'd bet Microsoft is fuming right now over it. (For those who don't know that lawsuit was about Microsoft bundling a web browser with Windows, abusing their position as an OS developer, and trying to force their competition out of the market. Microsoft lost the initial case, filed an appeal, and ultimately settled for allowing manufacturers to chose non-Microsoft software. Google is basically doing the same thing right now, (by tying system level applications to their web business) and getting away with it.)
  Offtopic but, See also: ActiveX and Active Desktop. The web lately seems to be pushing back toward making more of the OS dependent on the internet, and more applications just fancy web front ends. Which is great for programmers, but bad for system security. (Because automatically executing code from a random web server that links out to other servers for more code to run is always such a good idea.....*facepalm*)
3. Re:Four legs better by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:34 · Score: 0
  
  Didn't you get the memo?
  True Capitalism breeds monopolies.
  Or, rather, I should call it by its proper name, Corporatism.
  Look at how any industry has evolved over the past few centuries and you see groups forming out of companies to out-compete their competitors, then buy them as they crumble. Rinse and repeat.
  Eventually reaching such large sizes, they can wipe out people if they don't sell their companies to the bully. (see Microsoft tactics)
  The number of services on the internet most used have been locked up in to a handful of companies where just 15 years ago there were hundreds of them.
  It's a cancer on this world making poor people poorer and the rich richer.
4. Re:Four legs better by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 08:37 · Score: 0
  
  > For those who don't know that lawsuit was about Microsoft bundling a web browser with Windows
  Not just bundling, but integrating the browser. Microsoft testified that they could not remove the browser from the OS without breaking it.
  Of course it's only cuz they designed it that way, but that was their defense.
5. Re:Four legs better by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 12:06 · Score: 0
  
  Microsoft testified that they could not remove the browser from the OS without breaking it.
  Try and remove Safari from macOS and you see the same issue. Microsoft was ahead of the curve using browser components in the OS, now everybody does it.
Work me, personal me, my kid by raymorris · 2017-02-15 04:37 · Score: 3, Interesting

If I could quickly and easily switch users on my phone, I'd immediately set up three profiles to keep things separate:
Ray@work
Ray@play
RaysKid
No more accidentally triggering auto-complete of a personal URL while at work. I can let the kid play a game on the phone while I'm driving, knowing the toddler won't be clicking on important work or personal stuff.
1. Re:Work me, personal me, my kid by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:53 · Score: 0
  
  and with fingerprint unlock, this could actually be seamlessly easy.
  (e.g. middle finger unlocks work profile, etc., kid's finger unlocks kid-mode).
2. Re:Work me, personal me, my kid by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 06:23 · Score: 0
  
  http://pocketnow.com/2016/06/27/multi-user-accounts-on-phones
  Seems like it's pretty easy.
3. Re:Work me, personal me, my kid by spire3661 · 2017-02-15 07:38 · Score: 1
  
  I switch users on my Moto G4 Plus all the time ( a mid-market phone). Its quick and easy.
  
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  Good-bye
4. Re:Work me, personal me, my kid by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 10:25 · Score: 0
  
  My 3 year old Sony Xperia Z3 has it. I have a 140$ xiaomi phone and also has this. For all the slack the chinese get for copying, they even go further and allow you to have two instances of the same app without having to switch users. The different finger for each user/space is not in stable versions yet but already in development roms you can download.
5. Re:Work me, personal me, my kid by sad_ · 2017-02-15 23:55 · Score: 1
  
  android does have this feature, the first version allowed you to have a guest session, next came the ability to create different users. now you can also lock the screen to a single application (for example set it on netflix and you can't switch or get out of netflix). these features should have been included from the start...
  
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  On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Linux Distribution not OS by ArhcAngel · 2017-02-15 04:48 · Score: 1

Google has done a wonderful job of obfuscation to the fact that Android and Chrome are Linux distributions not OSes. They both use the Linux kernel and Google's in house Desktop Environment. Does Fuchsia replace the Linux kernel or is it simply a new distribution with yet another Desktop Environment?

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"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
1. Re:Linux Distribution not OS by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:22 · Score: 0
  
  It replaces Linux.
  https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/magenta
ARM by backslashdot · 2017-02-15 05:09 · Score: 0

Can we switch out of ARM please? Let's go with RISC-V or something super open source.
Google competence by emil · 2017-02-15 05:22 · Score: 5, Insightful

Despite a blinding array of talent that works for the organization, this is the architecture for multimedia that they produced:

Don't start me on Stagefright and Mediaserver, I could rant for 2 or 3 hours non-stop! Seriously, the code over there is crap, and has insane concepts, like aborting the whole mediaserver (and all related media decoding of all other applications running at the same time), when it parses a file with attributes it does not know, instead of skipping the file. We discovered some issues in Stagefright (busy loops, device reboots, mediaserver crashes) quite early, but we never thought about submitting them.
Google has in no way acknowledged the exceptionally poor design of Android, and there is no evidence that the organization has improved and learned from their management mistakes. How then can they be trusted to produce a new operating system? And why would anyone trust them to produce a secure system that is closed source?
I don't care if Verizon gives it away. Absolutely not.
1. Re:Google competence by adam.voss · 2017-02-15 06:01 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  ... to produce a secure system that is closed source?
  It may not make a difference in your argument, but it is worth noting that Fuchsia is currently open source: https://github.com/fuchsia-mir....
2. Re:Google competence by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 12:34 · Score: 0
  
  And why would anyone trust them to produce a secure system that is closed source?
  So you are therefore suggesting that Apple's operating system's are not secure because they are not open-source?
  Of course. They have been proven to be insecure, there have been plenty of security issues with macOS, even one just the other day as well as multiple vulnerabilities that can compromise iOS devices through the browser just by visiting a website, these were often used to break through all security and jailbreak the devices.
  Naturally that isn't to say Android or Windows or ChromeOS or Ubuntu etc are any more secure by virtue of being closed or open.
3. Re:Google competence by emil · 2017-02-15 12:54 · Score: 1
  
  I don't use iOS, and I'm not familiar with their Apple's record on security. However, Google suffered 115 CVEs in 2015 on Stagefright and the Mediaserver. Nexus is a tiny fragment of the Android ecosystem, and most users have 3rd party devices that will never see these completely patched. These flaws are carved in stone in the /system mountpoint, and can never be corrected.
  Apple may not have ideal security, but at least they CAN issue patches on the core OS that will reach the majority of their users. Google cannot, and this was a staggeringly bad decision. We have not yet seen the full consequences of it.
That name by Daetrin · 2017-02-15 05:23 · Score: 1

"it's clear that the Fuchsia is the actual name of the operating system"

I have no problems with the color itself, but i don't want to have to either spell or pronounce "Fuchsia" on a regular basis when talking about my phone or looking up stuff about it on the internet. Also Fuchsia seems like a horrible idea for a mascot.

Either this is a really poor choice, or somebody (possibly me) is misunderstanding what is meant by "actual name of the operating system." (If it's just a code name during development and the _real_ actual name will end up being something else that's fine.)

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1. Re:That name by Cro+Magnon · 2017-02-15 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, if someone says "Fuchsia" to me, my first thought is "Gesundheit".
  
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  Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
No Fuschia by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 05:46 · Score: 0

No Fuschia, no Fuschia, no Fuschia for you.
- With (no) apologies to the Sex Pistols
1. Re:No Fuschia by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 08:23 · Score: 0
  
  The fuchsia's so bright, I gotta wear shades!
Why? Why? by pjv936 · 2017-02-15 06:29 · Score: 0

Why spend good money on another OS when there is no market for it.
Obligatory political dig by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 07:19 · Score: 0

> You don't need kernel access to install snooping bits.
Nope, you just need Trump's Russian malware hacker friends to have access. The PTB want to know everything what you're up to!!
Here's my rant... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 07:24 · Score: 0

OK, going off on AC rant here:
The biggest problem with modern OS/UI/Framework development is: everything is built on old rusty scaffolds that fall and break all the time.
When you are doing web development, this isn't a problem unless what you are developing is life/death critical. Some users may think that it is life/death critical, but the reality is that no one is going to die if they can't see the latest gossip trending on their social-media-de-jure site.
No, mission critical stuff like medical equipment, stock markets, moon rockets, etc...this stuff has to run right. But once we start building on code that someone wrote 5 years ago and it used a framework that was popular 5 years before that, and the guy who started the framework made the assumption that no one would use this stuff 10 years from now...you get the picture.
So...we need to start looking from the ground-up. Is the foundation solid or are we building on top of a sinkhole? A lot of people started looking at the foundation languages that we are writing our operating systems with (C, C++, etc.) and are now suggesting better alternative tools (D, Rust, Go, Swift) that do their best not to let developers make stupid mistakes (buffer overrun, stack overflow, etc.) that allows bad actors to take advantage of those stupid mistakes. And a mistake at a low level of an OS or framework affects a lot of shit (Heartbleed?).
Sure, we can build solid foundations using the tools we have (C, C++, etc.) as long as the people using those tools are 100% error proof. News flash: people are human and prone to make mistakes. So, let's start making better use of the tools that don't let us break important stuff unintentionally. So even if we have to reinvent the wheel in a new language, in the end it's worth it for not having to deal with the frustration because someone forgot to dot an "i" or cross a "t" in code we didn't even write.
1. Re:Here's my rant... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 09:28 · Score: 0
  
  AAAAAAnd that will happen when money is not a factor to development.
  Newsflash: The reason why they use the "broken" C is because it allows for low level stuff like byte packing, obscurity, and yes: void * casting to a type that you were not given the object definition for. The real reason why it's "broken" is because we have too many incompetent code monkeys writing library code calling themselves programmers while looking at java's complete lack of memory management and go "What's the delete keyword for"? Yes we will make mistakes, we are all human, but the mistakes we keep seeing are A: A consequence of NIH syndrome. B: Restrictive Licensing that makes a good library unusable for a given purpose. C: Time limitations D: A desire to go Gold first, patch the beta bugs later. E: Rules / Laws that require something even if it's not safe. F: Intentional breaking of compatibility necessitating hacky workarounds. G: Lack of proper training (both end users and programmers). H: A lack of the desire to learn to do it properly. ("Why should I check for NULL???") I: Teachers / Mentors / Seniors giving everyone a pass. J: Lack of punishment for an incident occurring. Etc. Etc. Etc.
  Notice how all of those are PEOPLE issues. You can't fix people issues with a technical solution. You could have the best and safest compiler / language around and people would still find a way to mess it up. You want this crap fixed? Start by teaching others about what is good practice, continue with demanding that schools that hand out programming degrees actually teach their students and make sure they know the material before handing them a degree. Demand that companies actually give a crap about security and not just lip service. Demand that companies pay dearly when their software results in massive data breaches impacting thousands. Lobby for better rules and laws when working with computer security, not standards that make it so that the security is either paper thin or non-existent. And yes, if you can do it without exposing it to the internet, that should be mandatory. I don't care if you want to monitor the reactor from your bedroom toilet at home in your underwear, you will get up go to work, pass though security, and sit at that terminal because that is the safe and secure thing to do NOT hook up a sensitive system to the public internet!
  Get that stuff fixed before you start complaining about programming languages. As the saying goes: "It doesn't make mistakes, it just executes yours really carefully."
bot by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 07:42 · Score: 0

wait; was this whole post written by a bot?
Comment removed by account_deleted · 2017-02-15 07:59 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion
Mojo from Chrome? Palm WebOS flashback incoming! by Jappus · 2017-02-15 08:04 · Score: 1

What is Mojo? Well it's the new API for writing Andromeda apps, and it comes from Chromium. Mojo was originally created to "extract a common platform out of Chrome's renderer and plugin processes that can support multiple types of sandboxed content."
As a former developer of Palm/HP WebOS applications, this statement fills me with dread.
The WebOS application framework was also called Mojo and forced developers to use (WebKit) HTML, CSS & JavaScript for their entire application. Writing a UI, fine ... but having to write your entire application in JavaScript -- this glorious idea alone caused otherwise decent hardware to be about as powerful as a 286* as soon as you needed to push some heavier math operations (say, for de-/compression).
Even once WebOS allowed native C/C++, the call overhead between the HTML UI and the C/C++ backend was still ludicrously high (>20ms per callback) and close to useless, unless you abandoned the UI framework entirely and wrote everything from scratch.
So unless Google only uses Mojo for the UI and allows developers to use something nicer and faster for the backend, with good callback support, I feel this platform will obsolete itself, just like WebOS did.
[*] - Of course, that was before the Google V8 engine hit the market and before asm.js and node.js were available, but still...
It's an adventure by jjd · 2017-02-15 08:30 · Score: 1

You are in a maze of twisty passages, all alike.
Re: I make ads gone (& most online threats too by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 08:52 · Score: 0

I use your hosts file, but I keep getting these stupid spammy ads for APK's hosts file whole browsing Slashdot! How do I make those stop? Your product is a scam.
Re: I make ads gone (& most online threats to by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 08:59 · Score: 0

apk go be autistic somewhere else
T-Mobile will sue by tepples · 2017-02-15 09:12 · Score: 1

Few-sha.
My bigger worry with Fuchsia and Magenta is whether T-Mobile's legal department will spring into action, as it once did against the color scheme of Engadget Mobile.
1. Re:T-Mobile will sue by Daetrin · 2017-02-15 09:32 · Score: 1
  
  Few-sha has a demonstrated vulnerability. I would recommend Many-sha instead (256 or 512.)
  
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I make ads gone (& most online threats too) by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 11:14 · Score: 0

Prevention = best medicine (& what you can't touch can't hurt you) via NEW APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-7 32/64-bit https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=%22APK+Hosts+File+Engine%22+and+%22start64%22&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1/
Ads & malware rob speed/security/privacy
Hosts add speed (via hardcodes/adblocks), security (vs. bad sites/malware/poisoned dns), reliability (vs. dns down), & anonymity (vs. dns requestlogs/trackers).
Less power/cpu/ram + IO use vs. DNS/routers/addons/antivirus + less security bugs/complexity & faster vs. addons/routers/remote dns!
Avoids DNSChangers in routers/IP settings & dns redirects (99.999% of ISP DNS != patched vs. it) + lightens DNS load & resolves faster from local system RAM!
* Via what you NATIVELY have built into the TCP/IP stack in FASTER kernelmode!
APK
P.S. - Safe https://www.virustotal.com/en/file/e01211ca36aa02e923f20adee0a3c4f5d5187dc65bdf1c997b3da3c2b0745425/analysis/1433430542/
Re:I make ads gone (& most online threats too) by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 11:33 · Score: 0

True APP APPers APP ads with APPS not LUDDITE host files! APPS!
Aw, Mr. Soros & Alphabet/Google no likey? by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 12:47 · Score: 0

See my subject: TOO f'ing bad. Yes, Soros - I know you put money into Google via alphabet & your hedgefund investments to do it (along w/ trying to put down Ms. La Pen in France). You're a "SOROS LOSER" George, accept it. Just wither away already old raisin... ok?
(IF google & other advertisers didn't infect us, track us, & SLOW US DOWN with endless scripting? I would never have put this out!)
APK
P.S.=> You're SCARED fuckers & you ought to be... apk
Null terminated strings & buffer overflows by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 13:34 · Score: 0

Buffer overflow exploits in C, a language used in OS cores, are due to strings in it not having length built into them https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=null+terminated+strings+buffer+overflow&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1 null terminated strings was dumb! Yes you can send in 2 pointers to determine the length, one always being double the size of the other and when the larger no longer advances (errs out) then you have the midpoint, doubling it = length of said string (except on odds iirc, then you subtract 1). Workarounds like that shouldn't be necessary. ObjectPascal/Delphi doesn't have that problem and has performed equal with or exceeded C++ in performance in math & strings especially.
APK
P.S.=> I am saying this even though C was the 2nd language I ever learned (after Assembly)... apk
Magic Leap by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-15 15:02 · Score: 0

I can't believe all you lame stupid ass mother fuckers don't know that Fuchsia is for Magic Leap.
Re:I make ads gone (& most online threats too) by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-16 01:35 · Score: 0

You know, I would really like to meet you in person so I can beat the shit out of you. Pick a time and place and post it unless you are a bitch.
LMAO - Big "badass" unidentifiable pussy by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-16 02:35 · Score: 0

Today @ my home, anytime, right in the motherfucking street motherfucker!
I swear to Christ, I will put your ass in a GRAVE motherfucker (I shit you not you little FUCK).
APK
P.S.=> Anytime you LIKE motherfucker - I will fucking ass fuck you after I put your ass into the dirt you little pussy cocksucker flapping little FUCK... apk
1. Re: LMAO - Big "badass" unidentifiable pussy by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-17 14:07 · Score: 0
  
  That's some creepy ass fucking. You should seek help.
Everything is currently open source... by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-16 03:28 · Score: 0

... until it's suddenly not.
Does it void the warranty? by tepples · 2017-02-16 05:05 · Score: 1

Will such a firmware patch void the warranty on the display hinge, the keyboard, and the power jack? I worry about the warranty because I've had to have my current laptop serviced once under warranty to replace the power jack.
1. Re:Does it void the warranty? by squiggleslash · 2017-02-16 05:44 · Score: 1
  
  It shouldn't, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't or that a malevolent hardware manufacturer wouldn't risk trashing their reputation by refusing to honor a warranty when they should...
  I'm a software guy however, not a lawyer. I don't even read EULAs.
  
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  You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Seek preparation H motherfucker by Anonymous Coward · 2017-02-26 07:20 · Score: 0

See my subject: You'll need it & PLENTY of help to take me on PERSONALLY in person you pitiful little FUCKING loser motherfucker...
APK
P.S.=> I would fuck you up - that's no threat - it's a PROMISE motherfucker (I hate "your kind", trolling unidentifiable whimps - fatherless bastards raised by bitches & acting like them (hooked on the welfare tit expecting life "owes you it" that I PAY FOR fucker for a loser like you - a millenial heroin junkie not man emasculated LOSER))... apk