Check Your Privacy Filters: Facebook Wants To Be the New LinkedIn (cnet.com)

From a report on CNET: Facebook isn't just for wasting time in the office. It can now help you find a new job entirely. The social network has unveiled a Jobs page, which allows businesses to list all kinds of work for you to find. You can even apply for the job and make contact with recruiters directly through Facebook. This could be seen as a challenge to competing services such as LinkedIn, the recruiting network acquired by Microsoft last December. But while LinkedIn is entirely focused on business, Facebook's social aspects could make it easier for potential employers to trawl your profile for details of your personal life.

Comments

Yeah, no thanks.

[Lord Kano]

I do my best to keep my personal and professional personas separate.

I share politically incorrect jokes and use profanity on my Facebook page but I would never do anything of the kind on LinkedIn.

I don't even list my employer on my FB profile.

LK

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[cayenne8]

I would say...for your first job, do what you gotta do to get in.

From there....meet people and NETWORK yourself. Meet people in your business, be sociable with them and be someone they like and would like to work with.

I have found that going forward in a career, most often isn't what you know, but WHO you know.

Your professional network is your most valuable tool to use to switch jobs and move up the ladder.

I don't do social media, and I've not had problems so far keeping employed either with W2 or 1099 contracting.

It pays to develop your social skills, because quite often it may mean YOU get the job over someone else that might be technically a bit more qualified. But if you are personable and know people, you will get the edge and the nod 9/10 times.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[Anonymous Coward]

I share politically incorrect jokes and use profanity on my Facebook page but I would never do anything of the kind on LinkedIn.

People like you are the reason I like big data. Your unguarded behavior reflects how you think all the time, so employers want to know about it, because it helps them weed out the bad apples.

I take on a recruitment role a few times a year and I will look for you online. I don't expect anyone to be an angel, but if you're a cunt at home, you'll be a cunt at work, even if you aren't obvious about it. You are the same human, after all.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[Lord Kano]

I take on a recruitment role a few times a year and I will look for you online.

And you would find me but unless I allow you into my circle, you'd only see the things that I allow strangers to see.

LK

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[DontBeAMoran]

You really think that concept is hacker-proof or even future-proof?

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[Lord Kano]

"Hacker-proof", certainly not.
"Future-proof", probably not but I won't live my life in fear.

LK

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[Wootery]

That's a pretty lazy attempt to look wise and cynical.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[AnalogDiehard]

I don't even list my employer on my FB profile.

My vocation is listed as "Professional Crash Test Dummy"
My employer is listed as "I work at an office"
I don't even list my location or educational institutions. FB occasionally nags me to update my profile but I ignore them. The less FB knows about me, the better.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[umghhh]

It may also be that people like you are the ones to be avoided. You know, the ones that destroy others because they can while claiming moral superiority. We have quite lot of them these days. In modern times they have indeed an easy life because nobody is perfect and all mistakes are there in the open for others to pick up (or in need to make up). There is no way one can protect oneself against a statement taken out of context and used properly to show how bad one is. In my corporation we always had one or two per location kept for glorious tasks of getting rid of people on the cheap. This is exactly the reason why the actual complete loss of privacy is such a bad thing.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[TheRaven64]

You are entirely correct, even though I absolutely hate how true it is. Most of getting (and much of maintaining) a job is about how much people like you, not about your competence

I disagree. When hiring, you have a limited amount of knowledge to make a decision that can be incredibly costly if you get it wrong (Joel on Software has a good article about the costs of hiring a bad employee vs the costs of hiring no one). A CV is easy to doctor (and unscrupulous recruitment agencies do this a lot). An in-person interview gives very little information for selection (though inability to answer basic technical questions provides good deselection information). If one of your employees has worked with a candidate before and can attest to the fact that they're competent, then that's an incredibly valuable piece of information. This is why your professional network matters: it's not about how much people like you, it's about whether people respect your ability enough to want to work with you again.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[TheRaven64]

Unless he or his employer is willing to pay money to Facebook, and the amount that Facebook or, more likely, third-party resellers charge for this information is very cheap in comparison to the amount that it costs to hire a bad employee. What, you thought 'private' meant that Facebook wouldn't sell it to anyone who asks? You've obviously not read the Facebook privacy policy.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[Lord Kano]

My concern is with someone getting upset at something I post and harassing my employer because of it.

If someone wants to spend money to look into my life on social media, they're going to be disappointed with the mundanity of what they will find.

LK

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[mrbester]

That suggests such a small pool of people that it is a viable probability. I've worked in several different companies, all in the same field, for over 20 years and nobody at any one of them knew anybody from anywhere else. The idea that networking is of paramount importance isn't viable.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[Opportunist]

And I'd hire him as soon as I find this out. Why?

1) He knows that these things are not for public consumption.
2) He knows that they're jokes.

In other words, he passes the bullshit talk version of the FCC mark. He does not cause it where it matters and can handle it when it happens to him. He's most likely not some mimosa who gets all worked up over someone telling a fucking JOKE while at the same time telling those jokes in privacy without embarrassing me.

Yes, I want that guy.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[Opportunist]

In social media, I usually write something like "exotic dancer" into the profession field.

You get way more interesting private questions that way than when writing "IT security professional".

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[Alumoi]

Don't worry, WE know who you are.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[AuMatar]

I've found the exact opposite. In 17 years, I've gotten one job via my network- and that wasn't because I was a good guy, it was because they knew my skill level and needed my expertise. Every other job I've ever gotten is by pure skill.

I'm not saying don't make friends at work, do that. It makes life more fun. But don't expect you'll ever get a job out of it, the odds of ever working with someone again are pretty vanishingly small.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[pr0fessor]

After my job was outsources the company I work for now tracked me down based on the recommendation of a previous co-worker, I've been with them for over 15 years and from 125 to 110k+ employees. The really good people are ones that you will rarely have an opportunity to hire.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[cayenne8]

I'm not saying you don't have to have skills.

But I find I work at a place. People like me and how I work.

They then go on to other places, I stay in touch. If I need a job, I reach out to them and they put me in touch with people at their place they are at now and I get my foot in the door ahead of some people that simply only have a faceless resume in a file somewhere.

I do the same whenever a former worker I like is needing a job...I put them in ahead of the crowd, sometimes a job is "found" for them if they are good enough.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[cayenne8]

That suggests such a small pool of people that it is a viable probability. I've worked in several different companies, all in the same field, for over 20 years and nobody at any one of them knew anybody from anywhere else. The idea that networking is of paramount importance isn't viable.

Your mileage may vary.

Of course you can get a job without contacts.

But networking makes it easier.

As I'd mentioned elsewhere....you work with people you get along with and respect. They or you move on to other jobs. I mean, these days, staying at ONE place isn't usually going to advance you $$ the way changing jobs every 3-4 years.....

Anyway, as people you know disperse...you stay in touch. Then say YOU need a job. Well, it sure is much easier to start by reaching out to friends you know to get your foot in the door.

Ask yourself, who's going to get first and likely best shot at a new position? Someone who comes in recommended, maybe even a personal introduction before an interview even comes up....and is vouched for by someone already there and trusted....or, someone who's only contact with the company is a faceless resume in a file folder in some HR desk?

I do it for folks I know...they do it for me.

Sure you can cold call, cold interview....but it sure is easier doing it through a network of people you've worked with over the years and getting that foot in the door and getting your name to the top of the list is often the difference in getting a job or not.

It can also work the OPPOSITE way...if you are someone that I've known of, that isn't competent, or who is difficult to work with...guess who the manager or hiring person is told NOT to hire, put at the bottom of the pile or in the circular file bin? Hmm?

Yeah, it pays to build networks, and it is also as important to not burn bridges or be an unsociable asshole.

Re:Yeah, no thanks.

[AuMatar]

When I need a job I start looking at companies in areas I want to live that may be a match. Why would I reach out to random people and hope they have a job I'd like? Seems extremely inefficient and unlikely to bring on the job happiness, unless you goal is just to grab a job as quickly as possible. I'm rather picky with where I work these days.

Umm...they already do

[xxxJonBoyxxx]

>> Facebook's social aspects could make it easier for potential employers to trawl your profile for details of your personal life

Umm...they already do. That's one of the reasons I quit Facebook years ago. And that was before one of my buddies who works in "gov PR" showed me how he uses Facebook to pinpoint exactly who is whining about what issue - regardless of the "friend" or "privacy" settings they have set up.

New euphemism?

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook isn't just for wasting time in the office. It can now help you find a new job entirely.

And the job search starts by getting you fired for looking at Facebook instead of doing your job.

The new LinkedIn?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, a shithole for lazy people to spam recommendations in the hope of getting the same back, with a view that lazy employers actually care about this meaningless alternative to developing a genuine reputation?

The only redeeming feature of Facebook for me is that it is NOT LinkedIn, i.e. most people take it as an entertainment medium rather than pretending it isn't.

Re:The new LinkedIn?

[Attila Dimedici]

My first thought was to wonder who would use Facebook to job hunt. My second thought was, "Why does Facebook only want me to log on when I am job hunting?" I only use my LinkedIn account when I am looking for a job, which is not only when I want to change jobs but also when I am curious about other opportunities or about what my market value is.

Hmmm

[rmdingler]

The movement towards expanding one's platform to provide more services can be a wise marketing decision, and the Facebook has been proactive with in-house expansion and acquisition.

Sometimes, this dilutes concentration on the primary product... but since data mining is the Facebook's business, this endeavor is right in line.

Fake Jobs

[Big Hairy Ian]

So when do we get Fake Jobs?

Re:Fake Jobs

[Opportunist]

Looking at the job market, there's plenty of them out there. Well, so far they're just fake when it comes to sensible payment, but what else do you want?

thank gawd

[gamekeeper]

Since linked-in has changed the interface (html-5) all it does is kill all 4 of my browsers, adds to my frustration, and lacks sorely in providing tangible value. All I can rely on from linked is junk mail.. Mikrosoptht u killed it. Like everything else that a big company touches, it allways gets fu*ked some how.

Re:thank gawd

[gamekeeper]

not that I know of.. :(

Re:thank gawd

[TheRaven64]

All I can rely on from linked is junk mail.. Mikrosoptht u killed it.

That's been all you could rely on from LinkedIn for a long time before Microsoft bought it.

Screw Facebook...

[__aaclcg7560]

I don't have a Facebook account. But I do have a LinkedIn account with 800+ connections to recruiters I've talked to or worked with over the last 20+ years of my technical career.

Which one will get me a job? Neither.

Out of all the job search websites out there, Indeed is probably the best one. Especially if you can respond to a job posting within 15 minutes of it being posted. I've gotten many phone interviews and two job offers that way.

Re:Screw Facebook...

[__aaclcg7560]

Then you'd never get hired by me at my company. No Facebook, no job.

That's fine. During an active job search (eight hours per day), I typically talk or email 30+ recruiters per day. I routinely turned down jobs that I don't find suitable.

I want to know everything I possibly can about anyone I plan to pay.

The virtual trail under my legal name stopped in the 1990's. Since then other people with similar legal names have populated the Internet.

Even if you have a Facebook account, if it looks too 'clean' you'll likewise never be hired.

The government didn't care about that when they granted my security clearance. The two big red flags I had was 20+ jobs in a two-year period (the average person isn't an IT contractor who was out of work for two years and filed for chapter seven bankruptcy), and living 10+ years in the same studio apartment (average person moves every two to three years). My two-hour background interview lasted four hours.

The PI firm even gets me personal medical, mental health, military, and DMV records (I don't ask how and don't want to know).

Chinese hackers have my entire background file with more information than that.

Re: Screw Facebook...

[IMightB]

Here's my facebook account.

GFY@thisshitsgettinpostedsomewhere.com

Would you hire me?

Over-sharers nightmare + legal age discrimination

[ErichTheRed]

People are indeed going to have to check their privacy settings (assuming Facebook will allow the Jobs stuff to respect them.) Over-sharers are the obvious target (old sage advice about not posting keg stand videos or political opinions applies here.) But, there's something more insidious -- recruiters will buy access to Facebook Jobs, and start randomly trawling through profiles looking for a match. What happens when they see someone like me, a 41 year old dad with 2 young kids? I can just imagine some 22 year old cold-calling recruiter fresh out of their business degree saying "Oh, let's skip him, he'd never fit in at Company X." It would just be another way to side-step rules on age discrimination. Unlike the stereotypes, I work my butt off to stay current and not be an old stick in the mud. It's a lot of fun being the "adult" in a younger group of peers because I do enjoy sharing knowledge and teaching people. But, I do know that if I'm ever caught out in a layoff situation and don't have any luck with my contacts, I'm pretty stuck when it comes to getting cold recruited for a job. This is why my LinkedIn profile doesn't have a photo, even though I look pretty young.

I wish we could just get beyond the whole recruiter thing. Often, these guys are the only way to get your resume even looked at in big companies, and they're basically sponging off your salary. It's kind of like real estate agents -- they still get a huge commission even though most of their job is now automated (MLS sites replace books of Polaroids, Zillow and friends replace their knowledge of the market, and people generally drive themselves around looking for houses now.) Back in the day, recruiters had the same advantage as intermediaries even though most professionals put some or all of their qualifications out on LinkedIn or similar for people to see. The company I work for uses recruiters, and the worst offenders are the big temp companies they make us recruit through (TEKSystems, etc.) We have had painful interviews with people who have been presented to us as experts and quite obviously have had their resumes doctored by these guys. (And, we're not a bunch of hipster recent CS grads asking stumper questions -- we're looking for generalists with amazing troubleshooting skills mostly.)

Bottom line is that you have to keep the professional network going, lest you be at the mercy of these recruiters.

Facecrap

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

"Facebook Wants To Be the New LinkedIn"

Facecrap wants to be the new everything. Soon it will achieve critical mass and spawn the Singularity.

This is just another way for Facecrap to mine more of your data and suck you dry while it blurs the line between your work life and your personal life. No thank you.

Sure....

[diesalesmandie]

Why would I wan't employers being able to see my Facebook profile (something that shouldn't be seen as more than entertainment and/or keeping in contact with people) over my LinkedIn profile (something that should be taken seriously) Anyone who lands a job through Facebook only to have their profile bite them in the ass deserves what they get; its not just what you put on your profile, but also what your Facebook friends do and say with theirs...

Re: Over-sharers nightmare + legal age discriminat

[diesalesmandie]

You think recruiters are the only problem? Wait till you start getting the looks in interviews. The glance at the graying thinning hair and f course, you can't hide age.

Then the email, "sorry, but you don't have the skills." Regardless of your actual skills.

But you are absolutely right. There so much out there on us even without Facebook, after about 50 years of age, no one even bothers responding and you find your career over.

In an ideal situation, if your age is an issue over your skill and experience, then you probably shouldn't work there even if you are offered the job.

Where's Facebook delete macro?

[CaptainDork]

This Facebook jobs connection is a good thing.

I think it's brilliant ONLY if the Facebook member has been prepared for it since signing up.

In an interview, I put my best foot forward.

Because I'm retired IT, I have always been judicious about my Facebook posts.

I know that my Friends List is diverse and there are a lot of things I don't know about each.

Mainly, I share my photography. I'm an amateur.

I don't comment on religion, LGBTQ, immigration, politics.

I don't have any apps, and my page is locked down except for an occasional Public photo or video, which I delete after they become stale.

--

ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE

Recently, an Italian restaurant near here had a kitchen fire and was closed for a few days.

Facebook lit up with regrets and SOME negative remarks including one that pointed out that the restaurant got what it deserved because it was rat-infested and dirty, and the food was terrible.

The goddam guy used his real name and his page was Public!

Using one of my Facebook aliases, I doxed his ass.

His boss is on the same charity boards as the manager of the restaurant.

I chastised him for not considering the employees (their boss paid them) and for not complaining to the manager in private in a timely manner.

What a shit head.

--

Other public pages use real names and the owners think the platform is completely separate from the real world.

It ain't.

Please provide a link.

[Futurepower(R)]

"(Joel on Software has a good article about the costs of hiring a bad employee vs the costs of hiring no one)."

Are you referring to this article? The Guerrilla Guide to Interviewing (version 3.0)

Privacy 2.0

[nastyphil]

Privacy based on anonymity is over. My FB, Linked.in etc are all 100% public. Privacy now is about ownership of your brand(s) for want of a better term.

1) Think of it in positive terms, it's now transparency. Check out your future colleagues and management; "Do I want to work with them?" is just as valid an enquiry.

2) Thinking about networking as "who you know not what you know" completely misses the point. As geeks we recognize thatÂthe network effect (a la Metcalfe or even Beckstrom) is a power law and thus it is more akin to "who do I know who is a valuable *node*?" The smart money is measuring you the same way, so participate.

3) If you FB me and seeÂmy rants against religion for example, perhaps you will be offended or perhaps you will look at my rationale andÂrhetorical capabilities and hostility to dogma. Or not. I don't care. Perhaps you will discover that I donate significantly to charity or that we are already connected.

4)Â Ubiquitous surveillance, big data and facial recognitionÂwhilst they should be rallied against, are only going to expand. They will never recede, so use you fscking brains and findÂwaysÂto surf the paradigm shift.

6) We are at the cusp ofÂphase change in information flow not seen since (and that will exceed the impact of) Gutenberg.Âie geopolitical reconfiguration on continental scale. There is an enormous net benefit to this, but don't kid yourself that there aren't losers on a local scale. Don't be one of them.

7) Opinions are cheaper than ever and yet the ability to measure and tune productivity is enhanced. So any organization vetting me for membership would do to look at exactly that - or my literacy or numeracy and not my opinion on which way the toilet paper roll should be installed or whether I am LGBTQ+Âetc.

8) If you have something to hide and there are many good reasons for this,Âin an age where identities areÂa click away and cost $0.00001, THE SOLUTION OR AT LEAST MITIGATION IS TO OWN SEVERAL.

Re:Privacy 2.0

[nastyphil]

The AC said it: "normal human interaction REQUIRES anonymity, and the ability to forget / forgive past transgressions. Without them we are unable to take risks, we hold grudges..."

I totally agree; However as anonymity is eroded, there emerges a new normal. Call it evolution, call it the dialectic or progress or the singularity or whatever.
If my productivity is measured only in widgets per hour or any single dimension, then those measuring said productivity will increasingly be relying on an inaccurate picture and suffer for it in anything other than maybe a tactical timeframe.

My point is that the information revolution closes a loop that was previously left open and this is hugely transformative to society and economy. Privacy 1.0 is being deprecated and that means has humans, we must focus more on the forgive/forget side of the equation.

Your treatment of what I talked about 15 years ago on FB is *my* filter for gigs I don't want or should not accept.

No problem

[AndyKron]

The only people who see my FB page are those who ask for permission first.

Facebook is a joke

[Anonymous Coward]

Facebook is desperate to find a way to grow. Same goes for Facebook now wanting to stream stupid videos onto bigger screens. As if we need to sit around the living room watching stupid stuff Uncle Clyde posted on a big screen. Bad enough I endure crap on the small screen. Now Facebook wants to link me to jobs and in the process open up my personal life to people I don't even know.

Re:Over-sharers nightmare + legal age discriminati

[AHuxley]

Depending on how much data person shared on social media over the years?
Private companies have done a lot of data enhancement on anything they could get on past and existing social media users.
The ip used to submit more details can give hours, days or longer to search bulk anonymized information. Using the ip, its not so "anonymized" anymore and can go back for some time if the submission ip is the home ip that changes over months.
That gives an insight into what the person might have been doing online, even uncover search terms.
Profiles, faces, friend of friends? Do they have criminal records? Are they online friends criminals? Anything in paperwork at the city court system?
Who did a person party with at college? What political causes did they support? Will they bring their SJW issues with them into the work place? Any suggestion of been into union politics? Are they an undercover journalist? State or federal enforcement? A criminal? Is most of their past fake or just embellished?
The final question is the history of the workers access to computers and the internet. Did they grow up in a poor part of the USA and not have any access to a new computer every year? Did they have fast internet at home? Did they get a scholarship or work for their access to higher education? Not having access to normal computing over a decade due to poverty is interesting. Did they mention that aspect of their life? Other better applications had years of access to the very best technology...
Every aspect of a persons life can be discovered and considered. Social media just makes finding friends of friends and political issues much more easy before a person makes it into a new job.

Oh well!

[MerlTurkin]

LOL! Jokes on them, I'm not on Facebook!