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No CEO: The Swedish Company Where Nobody Is In Charge (bbc.com)

Katie Hope, reporting for BBC: Three years ago, Swedish software consultancy Crisp decided that the answer was no. The firm, which has about 40 staff, had already trialled various organisational structures, including the more common practice of having a single leader running the company. Crisp then tried changing its chief executive annually, based on a staff vote, but eventually decided collectively that no boss was needed. Yassal Sundman, a developer at the firm, explains: "We said, 'what if we had nobody as our next CEO -- what would that look like?' And then we went through an exercise and listed down the things that the CEO does." The staff decided that many of the chief executive's responsibilities overlapped with those of the board, while other roles could be shared among other employees. "When we looked at it we had nothing left in the CEO column, and we said, 'all right, why don't we try it out?'" says Ms Sundman.

38 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. Let's go even further! by Master5000 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No upper management. And no board. Now that is a scary thought. How would companies run without people in charge? We need someone there don't we? /s I have yet to meet someone in upper management who knows more than his underlings. The reality is that most of the companies would actually run better and make more money if not for idiots in charge. Any time the boss isn't around the company things work smoother and clients are more satisfied. We even joke about it. But these are sad depressing jokes knowing you can't fire the moron who founded the company, even though it would be more successful if we did so.

    1. Re:Let's go even further! by number6x · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The secret to very good managers I've worked with is that they realize that the staff working under them does have more talent than the management does. Like a sports team, the manager of the team can rarely accomplish what the athletes can. The manager may have been a great athlete in their past, but usually they were not.

      Good management realizes it is their job to have all the things that the team needs in place so the team can perform at peak efficiency. They should take care of all of the logistics involved in getting the players and the equipment ready to perform. A great manager can often drive the strategy for the team, but this is not always necessary. Many great manager will just as often will employ others to provide the strategic planning.

      Org charts should really be drawn in the other direction, with the highest level management at the bottom. management is there to service the organization, keep it tuned up and well oiled, keep it pruned and growing in the right direction.

      The organization described in this article was of about 40 people. The tasks the former chief executives performed were analyzed and found to be tasks that could be performed by others in the organization. For an organization of professionals, experienced in their work, this seems completely reasonable and not revolutionary at all.

    2. Re:Let's go even further! by chipschap · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I've managed sizable groups (in the multi-hundreds) and I fully agree with the above. The manager's job is to enable people to get things done, to eliminate obstacles, obtain resources, and otherwise stay out of the way of the people who know how to do the work. A good manager is in some respects invisible, becoming visible only when the staff need the road cleared for them.

      The biggest problem I had was with new line managers, who had to learn that being a manager wasn't about them --- it was about their staff and how they could empower their staff. Being the boss doesn't mean bossing people. As the boss you better know that you work for them because without them you fail.

    3. Re:Let's go even further! by tungstencoil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Like ChipsChap, I've managed teams up to the hundreds on a global scale. I've also managed global product management and strategy. I started in the trenches, as a software engineer.

      Two things come to mind: first, I'll echo ChipsChap's sentiment about the manager's job. I'll add that sometimes there just needs to be someone who can make an informed decision and move forward. In many cases - in spite of what individual contributors may think - there isn't a clear-cut or definitive "better" way/solution/approach. A good manager makes decisions in the face of ambiguity, on behalf of the individual contributors, in spite of the fact that some will be pissed off.

      The second thing is the unfortunate cycle I see embodied in many comments here: individual contributors have a bad boss, and declare all management stupid and decide to forge their own path as much as possible. Managers have bad individual contributors, and declare them all ineffective and in need of more management. The sports team analogy is nice because it is fairly obvious to most people that forging your own path and deciding your individuals are ineffective doesn't work.

      I'll add to that, many people also misunderstand the purpose of a manager or individual contributor. Too often, ICs look expect management to be some kind of "super" version of themselves. If you're an engineer and you expect your boss to be a smarter/faster version of you, you don't understand their role (note: this is not the same as having zero understanding of a position). If you're a manager and you expect your IC to understand (or care about) the big picture or things that aren't directly in line with their day-to-day (even others' day-to-day), you don't understand their value. Case in point: I am far from the best or smartest software engineer in my company (thank goodness), but I damned well wouldn't go to one of my leads and ask them to devise a market/strategy-based feature pipeline that includes allowances for where we expect *global* legislation differences to lead the industry I'm in (and please code them up lickity-split, if you don't mind).

    4. Re:Let's go even further! by amiga3D · · Score: 2

      The one thing most managers fail to understand that most people if given a goal and all the things they need to accomplish that goal will work steadily toward it. If you have to drive them something is very wrong.

    5. Re:Let's go even further! by HiThere · · Score: 2

      Come up with a design that you think looks plausible. In detail.

      This is sort of like the idea of mesh networks. It looks good, and it works fine on a small scale, but you start running into problems as the scale gets larger. There may be ways around it, but so far nobody has designed a mesh network that can scale well, and I'm not sure they can design an equivalent corporate structure. This doesn't mean it's impossible...but there are so many ways of gaming the system, and you need to prevent all of them, there are so many communication inefficiencies, and you need to streamline all of them simultaneously, etc. So it's a tough design problem.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    6. Re:Let's go even further! by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2

      Do you honestly think that NASA could have made it to the moon without people in charge?
      Give 400,000 people the bank account number to $40Bilion. Good Luck! ?

  2. Good luck with that by Elfich47 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Small communal companies; where everyone is in agreement on the company's focus and direction can run without senior management keeping a hand on the tiller. Once the company size grows beyond 50-60, it will either factionalize based on the differing visions for the company, implode, or strictly stay below the size where factions occur, it will grow and senior leadership/management will be needed.

    --
    Architectural plans are like computer source code with a couple of differences: You only compile once.
    1. Re:Good luck with that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "Once the company size grows beyond 50-60"

      Simple solution: don't grow.
      Though that to probably does not fit with current corporate paradigm.

    2. Re:Good luck with that by ctilsie242 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This makes sense. If a company is turning enough revenue to keep people employed, is there a real reason to grow? For hundreds of years, mom and pop shops have done business with a constant level of customers, where growth is nice, but not something that was a must. No grow-or-die focus as it is now.

    3. Re:Good luck with that by The+Raven · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tell that to Valve, who have hit over 400 employees, and they don't just lack a CEO... they lack any managers at all. Somehow they muddle on, barely scraping by on over a billion a year in revenue.

      --
      "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
    4. Re:Good luck with that by gweihir · · Score: 2

      If you look at companies with very high experience and skill levels, you often find that indeed they do not grow, often far below this size. They do not need to. They are at the top of their game and they know it. Only those in the mediocre and below class need to grow.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  3. Won't work everywhere, or really anywhere else by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The article omits a critical point: that Swedish (Nordic) culture has an almost unique approach to authority that is particularly collaborative and consensual.

    This model is not exportable to other contexts without a wholesale change of the destination culture as well...a bit more of an undertaking.

    Cf the work by Geert Hofstede

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Won't work everywhere, or really anywhere else by nine-times · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think you're quite right about that. Working in the US, I've worked for a few small businesses (less than 100 employees) where there was an official CEO or single "boss", but there didn't need to be. Major decisions were really made as a collaborative effort among the senior staff, and smaller decisions were delegated to individual senior staff members. Now, there did need to be some method of settling disagreements. Depending on the nature of the disagreements in these companies, it may be that the disagreement was settled by "the boss" (owner/CEO), but those instances were rare in the companies I'm thinking of. Usually the head IT guy made IT decisions, the head finance guy made finance decisions. The head of sales made sales decisions, and so on. The CEO was often, in reality, just one of those heads, except in the rare situations where he wanted to pull rank.

      So I think that this could work in the US, at least in companies that are run well and have a good senior staff. I think the key thing here isn't the geographic location or even the culture, but the size of the company. The staff consists of 40 people, well below Dunbar's number, which enables a more organic, communal, and collaborative decision-making process. If they continued to grow, they would eventually need to to adjust and formalize their decision-making. However, I don't really see a reason why a company, even a large one, *needs* a single CEO. It seems like you could still have a board of senior staff who votes on issues, the big downside being that it may be time-consuming to have to convene a formal meeting when decisions need to be made, rather than delegating to a single person.

  4. Yes, I see by The-Ixian · · Score: 5, Funny

    I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    1. Re:Yes, I see by burtosis · · Score: 5, Funny

      I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.

      (interrupting) Listen, strange people lyin' in comfy chairs distributin' shares is no basis for a system of government! Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcicial bureaucratic ceremony!

    2. Re:Yes, I see by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 2

      *Whoosh*

  5. Long story short by guruevi · · Score: 5, Funny

    They looked at their C-level executives and said: hey, they don't do anything anyway, why bother.

    It's a sentiment many of us have had for a long time.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  6. Bye Sweden! by TheDarkMaster · · Score: 4, Funny

    US CEOs will nuke Sweden to stop this dangerous idea from spreading around the world!

    --
    Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
  7. Scale? by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd like to see this tried at scale. 40 people barely scrapes my division.

    That said, collective intelligence has been used by companies and the intelligence community. I'd be interested if a few thousand employees collective thoughts on a direction of a company would work better than the boneheaded moves by a few C-level execs.

    1. Re:Scale? by olau · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Look up Semco and Ricardo Semler:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Semco has > 3000 people.

      If you are curious, try reading this book:

      https://www.amazon.com/Seven-D...

      The title is cheesy, but it really is an interesting book, once you get into it. Semler's philosophy is that of questioning things and if no good answers are provided, experiment with changing it.

      For instance, he describes how he wanted to let people themselves choose the executive which ended up with him being replaced. :)

      Or another experiment where he thought it was silly that the company should dictate the working hours in their factory. He then had to fight the union who thought he was tricking them, until they the finally agreed to a carefully controlled experiment - in the end the workers just held a short meeting the day before and decided among themselves what do to.

      Of course, some kind of coordination structure is still needed. But there's a difference between CEO-is-coordinator to CEO-is-tyrant-who-can-fire-you-on-the-spot-if-he-doesn't-like-your-dress.

      People will self-organize, and self-organization is powerful because it lets those with the dirty fingers make adjustments that are obvious to them.

  8. The Herd by s.petry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most of the time the herd will wander around and graze peacefully, get fat, and have lots of offspring. Then comes the storm and the herd runs off a cliff wiping most of them out.

    Interesting concept in a way, but leadership is not just checking boxes. Leadership is being able to react to situations and provide guidance to people to keep them no track.

    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:The Herd by DrXym · · Score: 3, Informative

      The firm does have leadership though. They just divvied the responsibilities of CEO out amongst the board. Perhaps it works better that way because decisions can still be made, but they're made in a collective fashion. On top of that they avoid the expense of having a CEO - salary, car, expenses etc.

    2. Re:The Herd by blind+biker · · Score: 2

      but leadership is not just checking boxes.

      My 12 years in the industry (I'm now back to academia) taught me that leadership is EXACTLY checking boxes, at least at the higher levels (CEO, VP, etc.).

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
  9. America beat you to it Sweden by Comboman · · Score: 5, Funny

    Since January, the USA is an entire country where no one is in charge.

    --
    Support Right To Repair Legislation.
  10. Big Gabe N by tepples · · Score: 2

    Valve is flatter than most, but it still has Big Gabe N's Big Gabe Oat Ride.

  11. Re:One ass to kick by The-Ixian · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why do people insist on living in idealist land even when the real world clearly doesn't work that way?

    How often do CEOs get their "asses kicked"?

    Ridiculed, sure. Left destitute and without prospects (let alone send to jail) after driving a company into the ground and ruining the workers and investors? Rarely.

    --
    My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
  12. as an american im shocked. by nimbius · · Score: 5, Funny

    How will you ever formulate your trust synergies? without your CEO you cant reactively anticipate the growth strategy of your win-win situations and kaizan the goal strategy matrix. Christ forbid you go for longer than a few weeks without a CEO's absolutely critical newsletters and quarterly associate pow-wows to help strengthen and inspire. Why it gives me chills to think how much actual work your corporation accomplishes on a daily basis without a CEO. You might have "happy customers" and "completed projects" but do you have productivity metrics to suggest your lean six-sigma axis is tilting toward revenue pivots?

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  13. Re:Swedish people by Mattatron · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oh really? Well, maybe YOU didn't not try it, why don't you go not do that and tell us how it didn't go?

  14. But... by GrumpySteen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Without a CEO, how will we ever be able to make sure that corporate assets are sold off to third parties and then leased back in order to show a huge short-term profit that generates a huge year-end bonus while simultaneously stripping the company of value and driving it toward bankruptcy?

    1. Re:But... by ripvlan · · Score: 2

      Yup - this happened to a local tavern that was also known for producing some of the best beer in the area. The owner sold the building to a real-estate investor and leased his own property back - using the money to pay down debt.

      Said investor jacked up his rent (up to "fair market value") - forcing the business to close. They then split the two entities and sold the beer to a bigger brewery.

      Sad & quick end to a family business.

    2. Re:But... by rsborg · · Score: 3

      Without a CEO, how will we ever be able to make sure that corporate assets are sold off to third parties and then leased back in order to show a huge short-term profit that generates a huge year-end bonus while simultaneously stripping the company of value and driving it toward bankruptcy?

      Don't worry, in the USA, we have private equity (see: vulture capital) firms who go out and buy such companies using loaned money [1], install their own CEO and do exactly that - they pay back the loans they used to buy the company from the assets the company owns.

      [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
  15. Non-sequitur by sjbe · · Score: 2

    I wish MBAs were judged by their ability to support and enable coworkers to achieve a common goal.

    That sentence is a non-sequitur. A MBA is a college degree, not a class of people. Having a MBA doesn't grant anyone magical armor to prevent their job performance critically evaluated.

    Presumably you are using MBA as a trite shorthand for someone in management who studied business in college. Guess what? They ARE judged on their ability to do exactly what you suggest. Managers who fail to support and enable co-workers to do their job generally suck at their job and generally are rewarded accordingly no different than any other job. Having an engineering degree doesn't grant one magical powers of intelligence and competence nor does it mean they are good at engineering. Some people with MBA diplomas are very good at their job. A bunch more are mediocre and some really suck. Same as with any other type of degree and job.

  16. The question is WHY don't they care by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you've managed groups of people you would know that for every motivated and hard working person out there there is a malingerer who wants a paycheck but doesn't really want to do any work.

    While this is true, the reality is that the person's co-workers are quite capable of spotting this without any manager's help. If they are empowered to do something about it, they can.

    I don't know if you've had the pleasure of dealing with fraudulent worker's comp claims. I have.

    Yes, so have I. I've also seen companies that go out of their way to duck valid worker's comp claims. Either way, this isn't a task for group managers to deal with. Worker's comp, at least in IT, is about the health and welfare of the individual. The essence of management, as typically constituted, is to steer the group in the direction of the desired goals. Health and welfare really ought to be dealt with elsewhere in the structure than the group management (assuming that management is actually required, which may or may not be the case, depending on many factors.)

    McDonald's [...] Pay is low, the work is tiring and boring, and your co-workers are rarely bright and motivated. [...] And that's ok as long as you know what to expect from them and build the business accordingly.

    No, it's not okay. It's almost a perfect example of worker exploitation. They should be paid enough and work allocated in such a way as to make the job a pleasure to do. By low-balling benefits, pay and tasking, providing no reasonable breaks, and seeing to it that there is very little opportunity or reason to dedicate one's self to doing a good job, management inherently takes on the role of exploiter in order to make things work "anyway." And it shows -- how may times have customers seen the patty slopped halfway onto the bun, the condiments in a ridiculous pile on some small fraction of the patty, the orders missing something or containing something that wasn't ordered? That's a direct consequence of making people suffer in their jobs. Not of the job being inherently difficult.

    Now, you can (and many do) argue that in order to keep that hamburger at a dollar, you have to exploit the workforce. The problem, as I see it, is that large numbers of citizens are earning so little as to make it so that an increase of a few dollars a day in meal costs represent a significant, even critical, impact on their overall income. This, while McDonald's executives earn millions of dollars per year.

    We are never going to fix this unless we restrict the highly unbalanced upwards flow of money into the hands of those who hold the controlling reins of these organizations. In other words, owners, CEOs and yes, managers. This will probably happen, but only because these upscale jobs will be automated out of existence. Otherwise, greed, hubris and a blatant disregard for worker welfare will continue to make jobs such as fast food jobs your basic employee's nightmare.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
  17. Title is bullshit by EndlessNameless · · Score: 2

    The board is still in charge. And below, there is a top level of management.

    They eliminated one middle man between the top managers and the board. Big deal.

    In America, that is one seriously overpaid middle man, however, so we need to do it more than they do.

    --

    ---
    According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
  18. Re: Not everyone cares about the company goals by PoopJuggler · · Score: 2

    You consider ChicFilA excellent food?

  19. Take me to your leader.. by LesserWeevil · · Score: 2

    In a previous life I worked for Ericsson. In training for Americans, a story was related by our Swedish trainer as so: "The Roman empire finally came knocking on the borders of what's now Sweden and asked of some Swedes, "take us to your leader" in typical Roman fashion. The startled Swedes responded, "what's that?" Anyone who ever worked for a Swedish company would recognize the idea of a *very* flat organization where the ratio of compensation between the top and bottom employees is around 4:1 - contrast that to the average American company of around 400:1.

  20. Re:You are talking about Trump managing the US of by bodog · · Score: 2

    As if any of the selected alternatives to Trump were any better?