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Used Cars Can Still Be Controlled By Their Previous Owners' Apps (wtkr.com)
An IBM security researcher recently discovered something interesting about smart cars. An anonymous reader quotes CNN:
Charles Henderson sold his car several years ago, but he still knows exactly where it is, and can control it from his phone... "The car is really smart, but it's not smart enough to know who its owner is, so it's not smart enough to know it's been resold," Henderson told CNNTech. "There's nothing on the dashboard that tells you 'the following people have access to the car.'" This isn't an isolated problem. Henderson tested four major auto manufacturers, and found they all have apps that allow previous owners to access them from a mobile device. At the RSA security conference in San Francisco on Friday, Henderson explained how people can still retain control of connected cars even after they resell them.
Manufacturers create apps to control smart cars -- you can use your phone to unlock the car, honk the horn and find out the exact location of your vehicle. Henderson removed his personal information from services in the car before selling it back to the dealership, but he was still able to control the car through a mobile app for years. That's because only the dealership that originally sold the car can see who has access and manually remove someone from the app.
It's also something to consider when buying used IoT devices -- or a smart home equipped with internet-enabled devices.
Manufacturers create apps to control smart cars -- you can use your phone to unlock the car, honk the horn and find out the exact location of your vehicle. Henderson removed his personal information from services in the car before selling it back to the dealership, but he was still able to control the car through a mobile app for years. That's because only the dealership that originally sold the car can see who has access and manually remove someone from the app.
It's also something to consider when buying used IoT devices -- or a smart home equipped with internet-enabled devices.
dealership only sales and service coming soon? or should end users have a way to do an full reset for free?
If upon looking for a new car, the dealership says they have a mobile app for it, turn around and walk away.
As someone considering getting a 'new', used car this year or next, it's pretty apparent I'll need to weed out just who thinks connection it to any network, is a good idea.
The list should become pretty short if any at all. Worst case, I go backwards and fix up something pre-high-tech.
If you miss a payment or two, they can (sometimes) use GPS to locate the vehicle, disable it remotely, and activate the horn if the vehicle is being sequestered nearby.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
I just purchased a used vehicle and not only was the former owners phone still programmed to the car but their garage door and childrens phones were too. I wiped it all of course. I was very surprised the dealership didn't wipe it prior to putting out for sale. The vehicle was from another time zone too somewhere in Texas and I'm on the east coast. The wrong time was what originally had me go into the menus and that's where I found the rest of their personally identifiable information. Something to keep in mind prior to selling your vehicle, wipe your dash system phone book and telemetry data.
Industry still has a lot to learn. They should hire pen testers. Park a few in the lobby of a black hat conference and let people go to town on them, let attendees earn some bounties while there. Get some feedback. It's like auto manufacturers hire programmers fresh out of high school with very little experience especially with security. Also, FFS auto manufacturers allow for firmware updates to update protocols from WEP to WPA2 or whatever comes in the future. Jesus.
“If I was a consumer who was less than tech-savvy, I would probably consider buying new rather than second-hand for this reason,” he said.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Back in the late 1990's, I had a roommate who owned a red Toyota Corolla. After we did some Christmas shopping at a busy mall, we were confused as to where the car got parked. My roommate found a red Toyota Corolla, unlocked the doors with his key, we got in and he started the engine. We immediately knew that something was off. For example, the interior was too clean. My roommate checked the registration to discover that we were in someone else's car. We got out, locked up the car and found his car a few rows over. I read somewhere that car manufacturers make a dozen unique car keys for any particular model, making it possible for any car owner to drive off in someone else's car by accident or on purpose.
Are the previous owners not breaking the law by retaining such control? When you sell something then you are supposed to give up all interest and rights to it, to do otherwise is an act of conversion
My wife leased a BMW X3 that was a "demo" with 6K miles.
I found that the dealer had not bothered to wipe any info stored in the car's nav/entertainment system.
The nav had all the previous destinations stored.
The radio buttons had been pre-programmed to dial certain numbers and they were still active.
Previous users music was still loaded in memory.
I had to purge all this myself and now have to do it again when she turns in the car because I can't trust the dealer to do it.
I doubt that anyone else really pays attention to this. When I brought it up to the dealer at the first Service interval they just sort of shrugged it off.
Oh, and when we were being "introduced" to the car's tech, the dealer showed my wife how to download their "app".
This consisted of going to a BMW web page and then saving the web page to the Home Screen as a shortcut icon.
When I said that was not an "app", the tech guy just gave me a look.
I like microcars
Yeah sure they are.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
https://www.theguardian.com/te...
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/20...
>>You lose asshole.
Compared to you? Nope. with a dick attitude like that, you lose at your whole life.
I do not currently own a vehicle that has so many bells-and-whistles that there is GPS, or wireless anything in it (it's a light pickup truck with a 5-speed stick, and I like it that way), but if-and-when I have to replace it, and discover I (somehow) have no option but to get something with all those extras, Job One will be to identify and short to Ground all the GPS and wireless antennas -- except the one for the radio, of course. No one should be able to remotely control any vehicle I'm driving for any reason, ever. I'd consider that to be a gigantic security hole and a safety hazard.
>>The only known crack on that which was taken care of quickly.
At least read the articles before you show your ignorance.It was 3 different attacks.
>> YOU are welcome to try and steal our Tesla.
Sorry but I don't like them. you can keep it.
>> a cocksucker like you
Thanks for continually reemphasizing your own intellectual shortcomings. Or perhaps you are compensating for something else.
The last three cars I've rented had bluetooth to let you make calls over the car's speakers. But the bluetooth functionality also does other stuff like sync contacts and call logs. I could view previous renters' call logs and sometimes the names associated with the calls. The latest car I rented was new so there was no previous renter. But it would also load your text messages over bluetooth and read them back to you over the speakers. I made sure to wipe those before I returned the car, but I'm pretty sure most renters won't know to do that.
Do a reset for free? That's a good one. It'll move more towards dealer only ability. Like Audi, need the dealership tools to reset your oil service light.
Not for all models. You can do it from MMI on modern cars, or on some older cars (like say the facelifted D2 A8) you can do it with a spock pinch on the cluster buttons. Or of course, you can do it with VAG-COM on those few vehicles which can't be reset without tools from inside the cockpit.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I know how you feel.
I presently have a vehicle with driving 'assists' and it's an effing nightmare when they trigger. There should be only one driver at the wheel thank you.
Any future cars will be early 90's or older and I will do a restoration if I have to.
~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
A lot of dealerships have their own buyer financing programs separated by little more than a name. Think along the lines of a buy here pay here dressed up a bit to resemble a real bank loan.
My current car is financed that way. Due to some screw ups in my credit, I was able to get a car loan a little cheaper in interest rates that way. The finance company is owned entirely by three different dealerships but is called something different and located in another state from those dealerships. I'm not aware of any other connections those three different dealerships have other than owning a finance company that they can use to sell cars to high risk people.
I don't think that will be sufficient or even a good plan for the car owner.
The correct and complete solution is simple (and it's high time /. readers start endorsing this to each other and to their Congressional representatives): complete corresponding source code for all of the car's software licensed to the car owner under a free software license. I recommend the AGPLv3 or later in order to help maintain software freedom when people provide remote services to do this job. This would allow the car owner to have an application they trust running on and in the car which allows them to list all connections to other parties and selectively break whichever connections they wish ad-hoc. Few dealers would prefer this because it cuts them out of the loop; only dealers that genuinely want you to have the best available support and service, even extending beyond the dealer's business.
Practical problems with a dealer-only arrangement include: no possibility of getting this fixed ad-hoc (dealers in the US often don't do business on Sundays) which means your privacy means less to them than their ability to engineer new monopolies, no way to trust that the connection to someone's monitor is complete (you're trusting the dealer not to screw you but they have already shown a desire to do that in other ways), dealers are like any other business in that they sometimes go out of business which leaves car owners in the dark for getting this operation done, cooperative dealers are sometimes too far to realistically deal with (if I sell the car from the US mainland to someone in Hawaii they won't want to ship the car back to get this done because their Hawaiian dealer either doesn't exist or isn't cooperative).
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