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Boeing and Airbus Can't Make Enough Airplanes To Keep Up With Demand (axios.com)
From a report on Axios: Aerospace manufacturers like Boeing and Airbus cannot produce airplanes fast enough to meet demand despite what the Wall Street Journal calls "one of the industry's steepest production increases since World War II." The run up in demand is partially the result of fast-growing airline industries in the Middle East and China. Manufacturers will need to increase production by 30% to meet current orders, and such booming demand is one sign of a healthier global economy.
There's a huge waiting list to buy their new G600 long-range luxury jet.
I thought about buying one but decided to get a used 757 instead... but no tacky gold letters
I thought everyone said he killed foreign trade? Nope! Trump did it again, another victory for the Trump!
That is interesting. One would expect, if this is the case, that the manufacturers would increase prices until there are only so many interested buyers that the whole production will be sold. What am I missing?
Cannot they make some? Ok I know they are smaller, but the Bombardier CS300 has 135 seats, not that bad
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Nothing healthy about it.
such booming demand is one sign of a sickening global ecology.
FTFY.
Increased demand? But why is it that every time I fly on a commercial airline, there is a new cost-cutting measure such as extra fees or less legroom? The airlines are acting like their profits are decreasing and they need to squeeze every last dime out of me, but increased demand would suggest the opposite.
KILL THEM ALL
I may be incorrect but I was thinking that most planes were issued basically on credit to these airlines, just like when you buy a new car.
These airlines purchased these airplanes years in advance with people trying to guess what travel expectancy will be at the time they receive the plane. Lets say one of these airlines misjudged and they have to renege on their purchase of a plane or two as their passenger pool has not gained as their model suggested. No problem, Boeing/Airbus can just refit the interior to meet the preference of another airline.
Now lets suppose several of these airlines have to renege due to various factors - rising fuel costs, nearby conflicts chasing away travelers, etc. This could be a very precarious position for Boeing and Airbus if they have a surplus of planes.
Honestly, running with a 30% header in demand seems wise when considering the length of time it takes for these planes to be brought out for first flight. Not to say this necessarily means the economy is doing poorly, but I don't feel like this is at all any indication of a booming economy.
at 60 baby! Yeah! You gotta play if you want to get paid. Thanks President Trump. Nothing like a capitalist in the Whitehouse.
Aircraft in boneyards could be reengineer till real aircraft with economy can be delivered. The reengineer aircraft can be used on high cost marginal routes. Boneyards in Mojave, CA and Adelanto, CA.
From what I saw at my time with Boeing, they don't do well when they are under pressure. Things get rushed, forgotten or hastily slapped together. There was an anonymous thread a few weeks ago on an aircraft discussion board as to whether it was OK to use hardware store grade fasteners on aircraft structures. I shuddered. Because I've seen it come close to that when they ran out of approved parts.
Boeing (also known as the Lazy-B) builds good stuff when it's done at a leisure pace. But try to accelerate things and they go to hell pretty quickly.
Have gnu, will travel.
becoming a bankruptcy attorney. I live in Everett, WA just north of Seattle and home of the largest building in the world by volume where planes are built by Boeing. I've done bankruptcy filings for hundreds of employees and most of them make well into six figures despite the fact many of them don't even have high school diplomas. Boeing simply can't afford to work them more than forty hours, and in many cases the employees can just refuse because of union rules. Because of the union, Boeing can't afford to have that much headroom. This is the fault of unions.
have they addressed the emissions issue yet?
If these guys are making such great money why is Everett (home of bikini baristas) such a shit hole?
but... liberals aid the economy was COLLAPSING from Trump's instability!
Remember that, folks?
I predict that soon we will be hearing that Boeing needs to build a plant in China.
The solutions to all problems Boeing.
many of them don't even have high school diplomas
Right in the GP post...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Unbeknown to many, Ukraine has some very advanced aircraft technology. Its "Mria" aircraft remains the largest cargo airplane in the world. And it is not just the size — recently it was used to bring a replacement engine to a Boeing...
They are partnering with Saudis now to develop their know-how into mass-production...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
I prefer to fly on airplanes that were not built by sleep-depraved, overworked slaves.
Same here. I have a masters on comp sci from Stanford but I'm still at the limits of union contracts. I've worked seven days a week for over the past year except for three weekends I've been allowed off. They mostly get five weeks off.
Oh please. We in corporate have three weeks of vacation time per year and are allowed on average to only take four days. The high school drop-outs that work onn the planes get over three times that much off on average. Also, they get time and a half for every hour worked over eight hours per day while we get nothing extra since we're salary.
Except airline orders have been more or less constant since recovering from the Wall Street orchestrated depression.
You could have published the same story last year, in fact, somebody did.
And China and India are booming. The largest airplane order was from Indica, a domestic airline from India. 410 orders for Airbus 320. Airbus with their government funding is able to give them very long lease terms and guaranteed buy back price. Boeing needs to raise cash on commercial paper, Airbus does so on government underwritten bonds. But that is a different story.
Confluence of these factors, and a general belief that oil is never going to exceed 100$ ever again is fueling the optimism and large airplane orders. Oil producers trying to kick their oil dependence are trying to become transportation centers. Now a days it is impossible to beat the fares offered by Emirates, Qatar, Kuwait, Etihad to India/China from USA. So even the oil states are investing in airplanes.
They believe the moment oil goes above 60, fracking becomes profitable again. At 80, the fracking will flood the market with over supply and oil will slideback.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Most of them make well into six figures despite the fact many of them don't even have high school diplomas
Most craftsmen don't need post-secondary education. Craftsmen learn by doing, not by studying. Look in any of the skilled trades, carpenters, boilermakers, electricians, pipefitters, very very few of them have anything past high school, and there are a large number that don't have high school diplomas. You just don't need that type of education to do that type of work.
This is the fault of unions.
I'm not sure I follow your logic though. You are saying they are going bankrupt because of the unions? While saying they are making well into 6 figures? That sounds like a money management issue rather than a union issue.
Boeing simply can't afford to work them more than forty hours,
Why the hell would you want them working more than 40 hours? Since when is that a sign laziness? I don't want a guy working 6-10's assembling my air planes. People get burned out working that many hours.
Maybe if they stopped outsourcing so much of their manufacturing, they could speed up deliveries.
Thanks, Trump. Making America Great Again, one victory at a time.
That's complete Bullsh*t.
I live in Seattle. Boeing announced it will be cutting jobs in 2017 due to " fierce competition with rival Airbus and a drop in new orders".
They will be cutting the number of planes produced per month.
http://www.bizjournals.com/sea...
I'm not tired of all this winning
Boeing can't afford to have that much headroom. This is the fault of unions.
Welcome to South Carolina, Boeing.
Have gnu, will travel.
I don't know if there is a law he absolutely must stay at the White House and use Air Force One just because he is the president, but I wouldn't be surprised if there is. But security! is probably the claim.
Well, if it's so awesome in the factory, why don't you get a job there?
30% increase of air traffic will not help curbing down CO2 emissions.
Hey if there is too much wait for the Boeing and Airbus planes, look at the Bombardier C-series. They need a couple good orders to justify the taxpayer bailouts.
Meanwhile Bombardier scaled back it's Learjet business.
AF1 has solid security measures. While I respect Trump's penchant for luxury and would endulge in such myself if I had the means, I would be furious if his opsec was poor enough to let something happen to him in a civvy jet for lust of luxury.
Thankfully, he is on AF1, as you would expect.
And there it is, Superkunt with his delusional bullshit.
The framework which is designed for asynchronous responses...such as planes not appearing on demand! Whoa!
Bad news for AGW, since pollution spewed by airplanes flying 10-11km high is much more hurtful compared to ground-level emissions, when it comes to catalysing and boosting global climate change, due to interaction with the ozone layer and cosmic radiation.
The agressive growth in A320 and B737 plane sales is especially alarming, since these small-mid sized and densely seat-packaged craft are mostly used for overland routes, often short ones, whose travel needs could be served with trains - with essentially zero emissions, considering e.g. hydro-dam powered, electrified tracks. For example a 60k horsepower strong airplane carries up to 180-188 pax seats at 850km/h, while a 15k horsepower bullet train carries 540-600 people at 320km/h. Airplane moves about 1/3rd of the people at almost 3x speed, but with 4x more energy expenditure and all of that coming from fossil fuel! That's rather damning, but of course nobody likes to invest in long-term infrastructure projects like railways, any more.
On the other hand, the oil and gas lobby is injecting large amounts of clandestine money into the air travel sector, because sizeable airplanes are not going to be electrified in the foreseeable future, that's jut basic physics. Wings are the Koch's final refuge after the unavoidable loss of automobile fuel territory. They will be able to sell jet fuel (essentially fancy diesel) or possibly LNG for commercial and military aviation even in 2100 AD.
On the other hand, the fickle (unstable) nature of especially the "low-cost" air carriers will hurt the public, since they come and go like weather. One year they are found at rural airstrip A, next year move to major hub B, soon get fed up with costs, move to obscure ex-mil airstrip C and repeat that ad nauseum. This makes setting up airport-to-city public transport impossible, thereby creating a pollution/noise/jam burden of individual ground travel as well.
All that chaos cannot continue forever. I bet some time in the future pax and cargo aviation will have to be curtailed to fight AGW. That day Airbus will be in a better position, since there is a lot of railway industry in Europe, e.g. CAF, Alsthom, Siemens, Stadler, ABB, Ansaldo, Skoda, Ganz, Electroputere, PESA. Airbus can buy and/or conglomerize some of them and quickly diversifying into rail products. On the other hand, Boeing will be in trouble, since there is essentially no pax rail industry in the USA, even Acela buys Alstom rolling stock. If the rather illusorical "Hyper-oops" project collapses, Boeing and USA will be caught with pants not yet up and there will be another "Detroit downfall".
As if the Ukrainians and Saudis care about that...
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
I'm not going to pay too much for this airplane!
- Donald Trump (with credit to Meinecke's ad agency in the '80s)
Lets hope the expense of moving all the farmland, and whatever is currently there out the way is worth it. Just so we can feed the population that we already extremely easily feed now.
Wrong. The name of the country is Sudan. The Sudan is a name of a geographic region . Face it, your English really sucks and you are most uncultured.
Some countries have a long name and a short name. The article is not used in front of the short name. The Kingdom of The Netherlands is the long name, Holland (no "the") is the short name.
Like Germany, Ukraine has no "long name" — since it stopped being merely a region of the delightfully dead USSR and became and independent state, the "the" in front of it is inappropriate although frequently used to insult by the Russian assholes. Which is exactly what you did — and are.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Nazis are so out fashion, dumbass, you really should try to do a better job hiding it... Not that you can do a better job at anything, even /. trolling.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Craftsmen receive a shitload of training, even if it's not a "diploma" at the end.
Good companies and industries recognise that. Some have some up with equivalents to tertiary qualifications that are recognised universally.
The very skilled trades you mention _all_ have significant requirements for safety and technical training. Throwing a HS graduate at any of those fields without several years of training through apprenticeships or other on-the-job training results in _deaths_
As for hours worked: Amen. Any more than 35 hours worked results in documented reductions in throughput and increases in errors. That might be ok if you're a minimum wage oik behind the counter at 7-11, but I'd prefer that my aircraft have their full complement of fasteners, of the right type and tensioned correctly, given that the stress calculations of the airframe are finely put together to give maximum strength without excess weight.
Of course that kind of hting is exactly the area where robots win overall (no mistakes, don't get tired), but the improvement in productivity for that kind of incremental change means that only a few people are surplus to requirements and the increase in production might well mean there's an opening for them fitting cabin seats instead.
Craftsmen receive a shitload of training, even if it's not a "diploma" at the end
That's pretty much what I was implying. Years of apprenticeship, on the job training and classroom instruction, none of which ends with a degree. But it ends with a 100k/year job. I've worked with a ton of craftspeople, just like every other profession they have brilliant people and people I wouldn't trust to tie their shoes correctly. College education has nothing to do with it.
Yeah, like the loss of nutrition already caused by the (over-) use of chemical fertilizers, always re-cropping the land without resting, maximizing the yield, i.e.: extracting as much nutrients from the soil as possible (without of course returning them).
The problem you mention is already there without CO2 increase.
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.