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Female Engineer Sues Tesla, Describing a Culture Of 'Pervasive Harassment' (theguardian.com)
A female engineer has spoken out about a discrimination lawsuit against Tesla that she filed last year. AJ Vandermeyden, 33, has accused Tesla of ignoring her claims of "pervasive harassment" and says she has suffered "mental distress" and "humiliation." From a report on The Guardian: Vandermeyden, 33, shared her story with the Guardian at a time when Silicon Valley is reeling from the explosive allegations of former Uber engineer Susan Fowler. Offering a rare public account of discrimination from a tech worker who remains employed at her company, Vandermeyden said her dedication to Tesla motivated her to advocate for fair treatment and reforms -- despite the serious risks she knows she faces for going public. "Until somebody stands up, nothing is going to change," she said in a recent interview, her first comments about a discrimination lawsuit she filed last year. "I'm an advocate of Tesla. I really do believe they are doing great things. That said, I can't turn a blind eye if there's something fundamentally wrong going on." Vandermeyden began at Tesla in 2013 and was eventually promoted to a manufacturing engineering position in the general assembly department, which consisted mostly of men and where she was paid less than male engineers whose work she directly took over, according to her complaint.
I'm not exactly surprised. In most cases where I see the office/design part interface with the shop/implementation part there is the potential for this kind of friction. Even in cases where harrassment is not of a sexual nature, it's common for simple vulgarity to creep in even if just as a reaction to the minor cuts and body wear and tear when working and the need for a certain amount of toughness in order to do the job.
Don't know enough about the salary aspect. She well might be underpaid becase of sexism, or she might have been brought in to do the job because they wanted someone that cost less in that role, and they didn't feel that the role justified the salary they previously paid.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Forgive me, but past accusations haven't exactly primed me to believe this. If true, it's absolutely something that should be corrected, and she should be lauded for having the courage to make it public. ...however, if it's sour grapes because she didn't get the promotion she wanted, I wonder if we'll ever hear about it?
Mod me down with all of your hatred and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!
Same here - my last project manager was also in his early 30s and in charge of directing me, gathering product requirements and ensuring my work met specifications made far less than I did (but more than he did in his last position).
We also, as an established team, ribbed him for being the new guy and for trying to implement new processes (mostly good naturedly but there was a definite attitude of "I'm going to increase our productivity because I'm cool" - Think the Lieutenant in Aliens and you've got the right idea)
He didn't work out. Not because we didn't produce but because he couldn't wrangle his superiors to settle on requirements.
If he had been a woman I could've easily seen the rationale of "This only happened because I'm a woman - the whole environment was hostile" (Yeah - it was - your typical business political BS)
Ok, well, first off, this woman is not an "Engineer" in the sense that she holds any academic credentials or certifications (neither am I). The article clearly states she started working at Tesla in 2013, was *promoted* to vehicle assembly. She is an "assembly engineer" in the same way that a guy working on the floor at Ford making IC cars is.
After this, following claims that she was held to unreasonable performance standards and subject to sexual harassment on the shop floor, , she transfered to the "purchasing department", which Tesla was apparently glad to accomodate.
These are simple facts which may or may not be relevant to the case, which appears to me that Tesla hired this woman, and has been happy to allow her to shift roles in the company and build her skillset. Apparently, she just purchased a Model-S. I have worked in IT for 15 years, and I sure can't afford a Model-S. So, anyway, sounds like a pretty damned good job to me.
It is pretty common for people at that level not to understand more than basic comparison. It is very difficult to make ANY comparisons though without making that sort of assumption first. She should have kept the harassment separate from the allegations of unfair pay/advancement. The latter being found inaccurate will make her other claims suspect.
there is a shitton of evidence
Blog posts are not evidence. If you are aware of any actual evidence point it out.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
>
Women then complain that men don't make the first move anymore.
I don't think women EVER wanted to be cat called and hollered at- and they still don't. Yes, you probably have to use more caution and common sense when asking someone out now-a-days, but this article has absolutely nothing to do with that. She wasn't complaining about being asked out.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
" where she was paid less than male engineers whose work she directly took over, according to her complaint."
So why accept/keep the job if she's unhappy with the compensation?
-Styopa
Yes, they did. This is just your PC re-education brainwashing talking. When middle-aged Québecoise housewives come back from their cheap all-inclusive trips to Cuba, they all gush about how "real men" hit on them aggressively over there.
Try the same thing in Montreal? "RAPE CULTURE!!!!!!!!!"
There are many people in this world who are in happy relationships precisely from the job.
Making the statement that you are making is pissing on the life happiness that many have gotten, and many will in the future,
which would not happen if they followed the pseudo-intellectual opinions of a few self-absorbed ideologists on the Internet.
Keep that bullshit lesson giving to yourself if you can't look people who actually found happiness in the eyes and tell them that they are wrong,
without looking like an imbecile in the process.
Dismissing a general act for the stupidity of a few, akin to asking for sex to be banned because some people rape or fail at it,
is idiocracy at its finest. People asking to date someone is fine. It's when shit is being forced that it is a problem.
The problem is also that we are being taught to abandon critical thinking when it comes to women. I want to hear both stories, i want to hear the
statements from the onlookers even if it is anonymous, i want to see the cameras, i want to talk to the families of both parties and friends, their histories, and then
i can start making judgments. I want to first KNOW the individuals, before judging what's true and what's bullshit. Something Feminism is rarely doing these days,
as is the media.
Till then, the story here is just an empty husk with lots of assumptions but none of the substance, constructed in a way to create ideological debates but never provide a spotlight on the truth or rational solutions.
Technically, that's illegal.
it doesn't matter if it's customary.
And in a lawsuit, illegal actions are ... (wait for it) ... illegal.
News flash: you're no longer in a frat at Stanford.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Power imbalance.
When one person wields authority over another, there is both a temptation to abuse that power, and a temptation on the part of the underling to acquiesce to "requests" from above to avoid retribution. Even if the boss genuinely has no intention of coercion, the underling can't know that for certain, so it's best to tread *very* carefully around such things, or better yet avoid them altogether.
Because even if there is in fact mutual interest - it's going to be almost impossible to keep your professional and private lives separate. Especially when one relationship ends. How would you like your ex being in a position to fire you and tarnish your professional reputation? Or your lover being required to fire you for unrelated reasons? You're both going to have to possess near-superhuman reserves of levelheadedness and emotional compartmentalization for that not to get ugly fast.
I mean sure, if you meet an underling/boss where things just "click" powerfully, maybe it's worth the risk. But if you're smart, you'll make transferring one of you to break the chain of command a very high priority, because it's quite likely to sour both your personal and professional relationship otherwise.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Please describe this "power imbalance" when a woman can simply say "sexual harassment" with little to no evidence and immediately the "suspect" can lose *his* job?
Who has the power here?
- Ignoring her complaints of “pervasive harassment”.
The article has specifics later: "harassment by men on the factory floor including but not limited to inappropriate language, whistling, and catcalls".
Not nice, but not wholly unexpected either.
This should be wholly unexpected and anyone fighting against this sort of culture should be given the benefit of the doubt. It is a travesty that this is considered "fine" in this day and age and I'll applaud anyone who bucks this trend.
If you're gonna demand proof all the time
Yep, pretty much. Proof or fuck off. The tyranny you'd inflict without due process is unacceptable. And if you either can't be bothered to capture the necessary proof or the facts are too subtle to detect then I'm not interested in your plight.
if getting by on your looks is NOT how you want to live
Lots of unattractive women that can't rely on their looks are richer than me. They get by just fine.
And for the record, zero evidence surfaced in this thread. Susan Fowler made an evidence free blog post. The rest is Internet sperg. At least Vandermeyden filed suit; her claims will be tested.
....being subtlety, constantly, subconsciously (on both sides!) told by society that your purpose is to be ogled, and then come back and tell me that you are not frustrated with how pervasive and draconian it feels....
Do you know what paradise is? It's when you're forced to invent new problems because all of your actual problems have been solved.
Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
from the article:
She is hopeful her lawsuit and public comments wonâ(TM)t end her career at a company she loves.
Would a sane person really think that suing the company they work for won't impact their future with the company?
I agree.
Just keep in mind that pretty much every woman out there has faced at least a few, possibly many, shady situations where she has had a legitimate reason to fear the possibility of real harm from a man, and that has skewed her perceptions. (Humans are prey animals, over-generalizing threats is what we do best)
Make sure your attempt is done in consideration of that, and can't be taken as a threat, otherwise you're walking a fine line of with assault charges. And perhaps more importantly to you - shooting yourself in the foot before you even begin.
Also, be a F-ing professional and don't shit where you work. Work relationships are usually a bad idea anyway. If you haven't already established a good rapport with a woman there, and genuinely think that she might be interested in more, then don't complicate both your lives by making unwelcome advances. And if you just can't resist the temptation, and she shoots you down, drop it. Trying to pressure someone into something they don't want is harassment, pure and simple.
And for $deity's sake *definitely* don't get involved with anyone in your chain of command, the potential for abuse and complications are far too high.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Please describe this "power imbalance" when a woman can simply say "sexual harassment" with little to no evidence and immediately the "suspect" can lose *his* job?
Who has the power here?
Citation needed.
No, it's okay when someone *competent* does it in a way that leaves everyone feeling good about the encounter.
It's not harassment if the target enjoyed themselves both at the time and in reflection. Cuba just seems to have a very high percentage of really competent flirtation experts.
Harassment comes in when you force your attention on someone against their will. Doesn't much matter if it's incompetent flirtation or intentional bullying - the effect on the target is the same.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
Noting that both males and females are harassed is not a defense against sexual harassment; you don't have to be female to be sexually harassed. Plus we expect (and require by law) that workplaces be free of harassment *in general*, not just in the case of sexual harassment, so if your factory floor harasses people of any gender for any reason it's another problem, not an excuse.
It's *not* unreasonable for people to expect to go to work and not be harassed. It's the law. Attitudes like the one you express here are not only anti-social, they're actionable, and the only "snowflakes" in the process are the ones you can't control themselves well enough to act civilly for the few hours a day they are at work.
Who has the power here?
No no. Sexual harassment is a very specific kind of action and although it seems like the accuser has all the say about this, in most places I've worked there where clearly defined parameters necessary to establish that harassment actually took place. In order for it to be harassment it must be unwanted behavior that is either obviously harassing or behavior that continues AFTER it was communicated it was unwelcome.
Asking a peer out on a date, once, is not harassment. Continuing to ask after being told to stop asking IS harassment. Giving complements on appearance or dress is not harassment, unless it's communicated that it's unwelcome. Telling off color jokes *might* be harassment if the joke is obviously inappropriate for the office, continuing to do so after somebody asks you to stop IS a problem.
The biggest issue most folks have understanding this is with manager subordinate relationships. This is where things get dicey at times because the subordinate may not feel free to object. The smart manager stays clear of such entanglements and complications by making it a policy NOT to fraternize with the lower ranks. It is here where most of the serious mistakes and career ending events happen. Don't be stupid and don't give a chance for any false accusations to gain root by always having your guard up. Have "private" meetings in public places, offices with windows or don't close your door, make sure your office has windows and if you have an admin that they can observe what's happening in your office. DON'T socialize ALONE with your subordinate, but always make sure there is a group or other parties there. Also, if you catch wind of ANY inappropriate possibly harassing behavior among your subordinates, dig out the HR mandated training because it didn't take the first time and DEAL with the behavior BEFORE it gets out of hand. Project professional behavior and expect the same.
It's not hard, just don't be stupid, keep it professional and if you are the boss, keep witnesses around when dealing with subordinates.
If you do these things: 1. Keep things professional, 2. Stop any behavior when asked, 3. keep your interactions with subordinates appropriate and in public view, you won't have an issue when HR receives a complaint. If you DO have an issue and you where not caught being stupid, then you need to bail anyway because HR is messed up where you work.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
>It should not be any easier ruin a man's reputation (and life) with sexual assault accusations, than it is to do the same with any other suspicions of criminality.
I *absolutely* agree.
But you have to also accept the fact that we live in a country where monsters like that Stanford rapist walk away scot-free even when caught in the act, and that rape is normally an incredibly tricky thing to prove. Barring actually being caught in the act, it will always be a he-said she-said charge.
It's an ugly situation all around.
We have a problem with two kinds of monsters
Women who unjustly ruin men's lives with false accusations
And men who unjustly ruin women's lives with rape
We need to rid ourselves of both of them, and I don't see any easy answers. I think though, that the false accusations shall prove a far more tractable problem - if by nothing else than the growing ubiquity of video recorders. For rape though - we've got a very old cultural demon to face. There's an awful lot of folks like that monster's father, who just don't see why a boy's life should be ruined over "a few minutes fun".
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.