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Why Your Boss Will Crush Your Innovative Ideas (bbc.com)

dryriver writes: BBC Capital explores why good ideas people have in the workplace almost never reach the top decision-makers in a company. From the report: "Surely you've heard the plea from on high at your company: we want more innovation, from everyone at every level. Your boss might even agree with the sentiment -- because, of course, who doesn't like innovation? It's good for everyone, right? Yet when it comes to innovating at your job it might be better to lower your expectations -- and then some. Your idea is far more likely to die on your boss's desk than it is to reach the CEO. It's not that top managers don't want new ideas. Rather, it's the people around you -- your colleagues, your manager -- who are unlikely to bend toward change. Today, big companies that don't innovate face extinction. 'Companies are almost forced to say that they are changing these days,' says Lynn Isabella, professor of organizational behavior at the University of Virginia Darden School of Business in the U.S. But, 'it's not organizations that resist change; people resist,' says Isabella. 'The people have to see what's in it for them.'" As mentioned in the report, some of the key questions that the people whom you pitch your ideas to will ask themselves include, what does this innovation mean for me personally -- will it be more challenging or will it lead to more career opportunities, and what will it mean for my job -- will I get fired or will it be (or was it) worth it? Many times the answers to these questions don't stack up in favor of the innovation, Isabella says. As a result, the people who need to buy in don't push for change.

154 comments

  1. What a stupid post by Billly+Gates · · Score: 0

    Look the people on top have a lot to do and do not appreciate your noise as it implies incompetence. Let the big boys deal with this issue and focus instead on more important things for your job title

    1. Re:What a stupid post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Don't you worry about Planet Express! Let me worry about blank!"

  2. Re:Well no fuckin shit by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    Of course there has to be a benefit to change. If you're proposing a change and couching it in idiot technobabble, all anyone will hear is "huh, more work for no payoff"

    if you can't explain to a non-spergin nerd clearly and succintly why doing a thing different is good, why would you expect anyone to support you?

    In my experience it is political. It's insulting to suggest ideas at my last job as it implies incompetence. I got demoted fast and blamed for not making it happen with no support and threatened with termination if it happened again. :-)

  3. Re:Well no fuckin shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Start your own company if you want to innovate. Otherwise head down and soldier on worker, and be profitable if you expect us to continue you on our insurance plan.

  4. That's not what it said by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > Of course there has to be a benefit to change.
    > If you can't explain to a non-spergin nerd clearly and succintly why doing a thing different is good

    If that's what you got out of it, try reading it again. You might explain very clearly a huge benefit - perhaps it saves the company ten million dollars by making one small change that has virtually no risk. It probably won't happen, if that's all your focused on.

    On the other hand, if I show my boss something that can save HIM two hours a week personally, he'll probably do it.

    1. Re: That's not what it said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't read the article because I saw no benefit to reading it

      see? shitty sperg nerd summaries are no good. what I did tho was explain why some idiot wrote god knows how many autism infused words, only i couched it in common sense

    2. Re: That's not what it said by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Because in reality it will cost twice as much to implement as you think it will save, and only "save" half what you thought. And it will cause a half dozen problems you never even thought of.
      And it's been tried before by more talented people and failed for reasons you obviously don't comprehend.

  5. Yeah, sure. My father had great ideas. by mschuyler · · Score: 1

    He sure thought so. He could have been the poster child for the "Good Ideas, Only Rejected by the PHB" crowd. Every day he would have a new idea that would "revitalize, invigorate, and make the company (in his profession) excel."

    Only problem was, they were exceedingly stupid, painfully ignorant ideas. Sorry, Dad.

    --
    How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
    1. Re:Yeah, sure. My father had great ideas. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      My grandfather worked at Belling and had the idea that you could make an oven that had a more even temperature by moving the air around. His manager killed the idea, saying that everyone knows that fans cool things and so they'd never be able to sell the idea of an oven with a fan inside. I wonder how many other people had the same idea before someone decided to try it and see if they could sell it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Yeah, sure. My father had great ideas. by TimothyHollins · · Score: 1

      Well, if it's not in the Player's Handbook it should be rejected. If he wanted to implement something new he should have talked to the DM first.

    3. Re:Yeah, sure. My father had great ideas. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His manager killed the idea, saying that everyone knows that fans cool things and so they'd never be able to sell the idea of an oven with a fan inside.

      Wait, what?

    4. Re:Yeah, sure. My father had great ideas. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Remember this was when electricity was primarily for lighting and many people had has fridges and ovens and no washing machine. If you're hot, you use a fan, so everyone knew that fans were for cooling (air conditioning wasn't really a thing). His manager didn't think that it would be possible to persuade people that fans just moved air, they didn't cool it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  6. Re:Well no fuckin shit by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Funny

    At my company, the CEO announced a monthly contest, with an award of $100, for the best idea to cut costs or improve efficiency. The first month, the $100 went a woman whose idea was to reduce the award to $50.

  7. Change is dangerous by JoeMerchant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you work at a profitable company, change is dangerous. The way that things were done before led to the current profitable state, any significant change risks upsetting that magic apple cart that nobody really fully understands how to build up again in the current environment, so don't do anything that might risk my next quarterly bonus, right?

    If you work at an unprofitable company, that's not sustainable, innovate all you like, without a minor miracle (which will have little or nothing to do with any "innovative idea" and everything to do with external forces beyond the company's control) you'll be getting your layoff notice soon enough.

    1. Re:Change is dangerous by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 3

      Indeed.

      It is a matter of how expectations are set, and thus the bonus incentives to the managers. Profitable companies have their cash cows and those are usually somewhat mature products. Managers are expected to reliably improve those products... or else. Most truly innovative ideas fail. The managers are incentivized to avoid ideas that are likely to fail. Thus throttling big innovative ideas is entirely rational -- they are literally getting paid to do so.

      That is why startups work. They can have a business model that accepts a 90% chance of outright failure, if the payout for success is sufficiently high.

      In theory, a profitable company could have a "skunk works" division that does its wild innovations in an appropriate business model for that kind of work. Few CEOs have the courage to maintain such a division long enough to build a track record, when it could easily be axed to cut costs and make that next quarter bonus.

    2. Re:Change is dangerous by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Informative

      We got new upper management. All about change. They even bad mouth the big legacy products that built the company up and is still the source of the profits that give the execs their jobs. I wish they would sit and see reality for a moment instead of chasing the latest fad.

      But even before they came on board some groups were resistant to change but others were trying to change things all the time. Most change though doesn't come up from the ground upwards. It comes from sales where they promised a feature to customers that doesn't exist yet.

      Resistance to change is practical too. We have a job that we have to do; we've promised to customers and have a contract, if we don't deliver it we pay a penalty. That means you can't go and steal 5 of my workers for your new amazing project. Everyone's short handed and multitasking constantly. So someone says "we need to stop what we're doing and do X" and it won't be met with applause. Or the idea just gets put onto the back burner to fizzle out because literally everything else has higher priority.

    3. Re:Change is dangerous by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Have seen quite a few internal unofficial skunkworks projects. They start out at bad ideas and end up as bad ideas. Then they sometimes get abandoned half completed, but because it's half completed upper management doesn't want to completely discard it so they assign someone to try and chisel it into a working idea. Or sometimes the person making the idea gets bored and leaves the project to other people to try and figure out (coming up with the idea and doing 25% of it is the fun part, after that it's the same dull grind as everything else at work).

    4. Re:Change is dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See Commodore and Nokia....

      resting on laurels is also risky.

    5. Re:Change is dangerous by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Profitable companies have their cash cows and those are usually somewhat mature products

      This also makes it very difficult to make an innovative change that disrupts that market. There's a story of some SGI engineers approaching their managers with a design for a cut-down version of SGI's graphics processor that they could make for a tenth the price of the workstation model and which would get almost half the performance. They said they could stick it on a PCI card and sell it to a few orders of magnitude more customers. Management said no, because it would cannibalise the workstation market: who'd buy an SGI workstation when you could get a commodity PC with a comparatively cheap expansion card and get similar ballpark performance? The engineers left and joined a new startup called nVidia. The managers were exactly right in one respect: Cheap GPUs did kill the proprietary graphics workstation market. They were wrong in assuming that if they didn't do something then no one else would.

      Many of the successful large companies have, at least once, been willing to say 'well, most of our profit comes from here, but that's a market that someone is going to disrupt soon, we'd better do it before the competition' and launch a product that kills one of their revenue streams. IBM did this accidentally with the PC. Apple did this with the iPhone (remember when a huge chunk of their revenue came from the iPod? Now who would buy an iPod when any mobile phone works fine as a portable music player).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Change is dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The questions is if by "innovation" it is meant productization of existing services, creation of new products, or simply a part of a continuous improvement program. When product ideas go through the marketing pipeline, only about one in a hundred good ideas actually have a change of making it through to the customer.

    7. Re:Change is dangerous by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      It's easier, and more profitable, to throw up barriers to competition for a successful product than it is to innovate the product and make it better - especially to innovate the product and make it cost less.

    8. Re:Change is dangerous by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Kodak, the newspaper industry, public pay phones, buggy whips, etc.

    9. Re:Change is dangerous by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      We got new upper management. All about change. They even bad mouth the big legacy products that built the company up and is still the source of the profits that give the execs their jobs. I wish they would sit and see reality for a moment instead of chasing the latest fad.

      You don't work for the US gov do you?

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    10. Re:Change is dangerous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A company is completely safe launching a product that kills one of their own revenue streams. If it fails - no problem. That old revenue stream is still rolling. If it succeeds they have a new revenue stream instead of the old drying up. And the nice thing about killing the old revenue stream, is that it also kills the competitors that was beginning to tap into it with late-coming copy products.

      Just don't tell anyone about the new product before it is ready. Don't want to kill the old revenue stream before the replacement is ready.

    11. Re:Change is dangerous by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It's not that clear cut. Take the SGI example. You sell graphical workstations for $10+K, with a $2-3K mark up on each one. You launch a range of graphics accelerator boards for $500-1000. All of your customers switch to buying commodity workstations from someone else with one of your boards inside. You're now probably not making enough on unit sales to cover your R&D costs and the company goes under. The gamble is that not only will your customers buy these boards, an order of magnitude more people will buy them and you can then use this money to find the $100 version that you can sell to another order of magnitude of customers.

      The real danger for SGI was that someone else would start with the $100 board (which was nowhere near competitive with the performance of an SGI machine) and sell it with low margins to enough people (who would never think of buying an SGI machine) that they could then afford to develop the $500-1000 board that would kill the graphical workstation market.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    12. Re:Change is dangerous by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      If you work at an unprofitable company, that's not sustainable, innovate all you like...

      Nope! You can't be innovative in an unprofitable company. That takes risk and resources the company can't spare! You have to copy the competition until you are better than they are.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    13. Re:Change is dangerous by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Copying the competition is one approach, a common one, and ultimately it limits you to being a bit-player, if you get too big doing that, the originator of the IP will come after you and sue your profits out. If the successful established company doesn't have IP protection, they'll have other forms of market protection that will make life just as painful for you (vendor lockout agreements, etc.)

      I've been in a number of the "truly innovative" better mousetrap companies. The world did not beat a path to our doors, they usually fell flat on the sales front - though one did attract $80M in investment capital and now has gone IPO with a market cap of roughly 3x that. Took 11 years, and chewed through hundreds of employees before making it to the IPO stage, still has horrid turnover from what I can tell - the principal who started it all and has stuck with it looks to have aged 25 years in the last 10 - and he really didn't need a job, wife's parents were buying them expensive new cars back before the investment money came through. Interesting twist: most of the bold innovative cost saving concepts they were pushing have been watered down and homogenized to be not so different from the competition anymore.

    14. Re:Change is dangerous by Thelasko · · Score: 1

      Copying the competition is one approach, a common one, and ultimately it limits you to being a bit-player...

      I never said it was a good approach. But it's perceived as being low risk. Unprofitable companies are even more risk adverse than profitable ones. The only companies willing to take significant risks are startups.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
  8. Innovations run the company into the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most of what passes for "innovation" these days is really just illusion. We're better off without "innovations" like Uber, for example. The fundamentals of Uber are flawed, but their illusory "innovations" keep investors happy. Nevertheless, the fundamentals can't be ignored forever...

    1. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You hit the nail on the head when you said "keep investors happy". Everyone says that consumer dollars should be the motivating force in capitalism, but it's not. It's shareholders running the show.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Everyone says that consumer dollars should be the motivating force in capitalism, but it's not.

      It should, but it requires all of a list of things to be true:

      • The market must have healthy competition
      • Customers should be well-informed
      • Customers should be rational

      The first is sometimes untrue. The second is usually untrue. The last is almost never true.

    3. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But something like Snapchat and earlier Whatsapp. Now that's true innovation. It it just an afternoons work to create the software, keep on tinkering with some shiny new servers, use some viral marketing tricks while you surf the internet when you're bored, lose millions on hardware, events, parties, hookers, hotels, ... while you grow your user base. Create statistics that makes every user who just installed your app a regular and returning customer of whom you claim is potentially worth at least 100$ / year when datamined and sell your business for a few billions to pension funds that are managed by experienced people who don't know the difference between sms and chat programs.

    4. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No it is all as shallow as fuck. If they can steal the idea from employees and claim it as their own and it makes them a lot of money, it goes ahead. If they can not steal the idea at the moment, they crush the idea and then try to steal it in the future and throw in so bullshit refinement and claim it as their own. If they can not generate enough money from the idea personally, the kill the idea, steal it and then create a new company built around it. If they can not profit from the idea, they kill the idea, then present a bargain to a competitor, who takes over and then announces the idea as their own. They also will temporarily bury ideas so they can up their shares and basically insider trade on the new idea.

      Psychopath corporate executives only ever work for themselves and they will steal from investors, steal from other executives, steal from staff, steal from customers and steal from the societies as a whole.

      How many executives demonstrate the peter principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... Lie, cheat and steal to the top, fuck it all up and disappear with a golden parachute. Just look at the M&M and Yahoo, lots bullshit and then failure. Only plan, making remote workers come into the office so she could steal their ideas and claim them as her own. Typical corporate executive business practice. That those ass hats are exceptional is just corporate executive marketing via corporate promoting main stream media because it is all about their ego.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re: Innovations run the company into the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get over yourself. It's not your idea. A lot of other people had it before you.
      Ideas are cheap.
      Turning ideas into an actual product or business solution is not easy.

      Here's an idea; an infinite energy source the size of watch battery, which costs less than a penny to make.
      The only reason we don't all have one are Corporate Assholes afraid of change.

    6. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're better off without "innovations" like Uber, for example.

      I don't think that's true. I used to not be able to get a taxi ride. Now I can. (I don't care if you call them taxis or not, for my purposes they basically are).

    7. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Maybe in Silicon Valley, but all over the world there are privately held companies that don't have shareholders. Who is the motivating force there?

    8. Re: Innovations run the company into the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, give Snapchatsome credit, figuring out what teenagers want is really, really hard.

    9. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      WhatsApp at least had a business model. They were free for a year, then $1/year after that. The one year gave you time to lock yourself into the service and then the $1/year was so cheap that it didn't seem worth trying to switch to something else, but still a lot more than the costs of operating the service (they use Erlang on the server and their protocol is more efficient than Jabber. A single $20/month VPS running eJabberd will happily support well over 1000 clients, so their costs are probably well under 10/user/year for the server infrastructure and all of the development costs are amortised across a huge number of users).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    10. Re: Innovations run the company into the ground by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's easy. teenagers want to be on a social media platform that their parents aren't on

    11. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Didn't they drop the charge though? I've certainly never paid for it and have had whatsapp for well over a year.

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    12. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I think Facebook dropped it at the same time they dropped the 'we won't harvest your data and sell everything you say to anyone with money' clause from the T&Cs.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    13. Re:Innovations run the company into the ground by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Privately held companies *do* have shareholders.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  9. So True. by gurps_npc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you want real innovation, you need to have the person who is really doing the asking do the vetting directly, or hire an outside consultant to do it.

    Lets say you come up with a great idea. It will cut your work load in half, effectively letting half the people do the same work. Assume that means your department is given slightly more work - but not double. So your boss changes his plans to hire two more people to instead fire one person. But he won't get the credit for saving the money, you do. And your boss's salary and power are based on how much money his department spends.

    Best case senario, you get promoted. You are now directly competeing with your old boss. After he lost one of his best employee (as you came up with this great idea).

    Worst case scenario, the idea fails.

    Why would your boss promote your innovation? No incentive.

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    1. Re:So True. by Orphis · · Score: 1

      That's assuming that a promotion means that you have to become a manager from a skilled technician, which isn't true.
      Sure, maybe companies do it this way, but that's in reality a totally different job and skill set.

    2. Re:So True. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other possibilities:

      1) Your idea removes the need for your boss (stream-lines the organization).

      2) Your ideas will end up with fewer people needed in your department. But your boss's importance and maybe his salary is affected by how many people he controls. A smaller department will cost him status and/or money.

      3) Your boss is stealing your idea and waiting a quarter or two or even after you are fired to present your idea as his own at a later date.

      4) Your idea has already been presented, if it was shoot down your boss is not going to mention it again. Your idea may be being set up already it just take time before you see it.

      5) Your boss does not like you and never will present a good idea from you anyway.

    3. Re:So True. by s.petry · · Score: 1

      If you want real innovation, you need to have the person who is really doing the asking do the vetting directly, or hire an outside consultant to do it.

      So your recommendation is to bring in the Bobs?

      The hard part is finding the bosses that listen to ideas for change, which are very rare. As GP stated, many people see change as dangerous. Worse than that, many people feel change makes them look bad. Their idea 10 years ago was great, and their ego relies on that same idea hanging around. Their usefulness to the company is challenged by new ideas, so they push back against it.

      Grass roots activism is the best way to go, but not always successful. I have left many a company because they refuse to change, even when it's detrimental to their business. At least two of those companies I left ended up suffering from the exact problem I tried to solve for them, and they called asking me for help. Burned bridges can happen in either direction.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    4. Re: So True. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot: You suck and so does your idea.

      That's actually the most common one.

    5. Re:So True. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      If someone came to me with an idea that cut the workload and was actually practical, I would accept it. The reason most ideas aren't accepted is that they inevitably cause more work overall (though they often seem to involve less work or more convenience for the person with the idea, probably not a coincidence). A lot of workers are blind to the realities that occur in other departments, they don't have to stand in front of the VP or director and get shouted at because a project is going to be late, they don't know how much stuff costs, etc.

      Example, someone wants to upgrade to the latest version of the compiler. He actually starts doing this and modifying tons of code. Then I have to stop him. Because his actual job is not getting done, and he's breaking code left and right for people who aren't using the latest compiler. He says "just upgrade everybody!" Except that we're under immense pressure to meet deadlines and I can't go and tell the higher ups that we're going to delay the projects because the new kid wants to upgrade the compiler. Yes we want to upgrade, of course we want to upgrade, but we cannot do it right now. When we have free time this is already high on my to-do list. He doesn't understand though and goes off muttering.

    6. Re:So True. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course, if the "innovation" is of a nature that makes the immediate boss superfluous, you don't take it up with him. Go directly to a higher level in the organization. You know, the level where cost-cutting means firing middle management / departments - not firing individual workers.

  10. I installed a sign in my work area... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Bosses are like diapers... full of shit and all over your ass". Needless to say the boss no longer shoots down my ideas then steals them while taking credit for my work.

    1. Re:I installed a sign in my work area... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Presumably because you were fired for installing an unauthorized, offensive (to management, anyways) sign?

  11. In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The average job description is "you do as you're told".

    1. Re:In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a couple of coworkers here in Seattle that worked in software for years in Yakima. IIRC, they worked for a company named Axiom. They said they only worked a little over forty hours a week and got vacation time even though they're white. Sounds like heaven. Here in Seattle, "Seattle hundreds" are the norm. That's sixteen hours a day Monday through Thursday and twelve hours a day Friday through Sunday. We've had several hackathons and the theme is always saving the company money. We've had some good ideas presented, but haven't put any of them into place since we're just too exhausted to think. Also, since everyone around here is so short on software developers, everyone is short-staffed so no vacation time unless you're Asian and buying expensive flights home. Then you get two weeks off while everyone else has to work harder to make-up for them. Vacation inequality is a major problem on the west coast.

    2. Re: In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My last trip to India took over 36 hours roundtrip travel time. They need two or more weeks off to make that worthwhile. It sucks since it means Americans can't get time off, but I'd rather be working than trapped in a plane for that many hours.

    3. Re: In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how does working 100+ hours a week benefit anybody ? Does it help deliver high quality work or inovative ideas ? In my experience people start making mistakes and loose focus in a bad way after more than 50 hours for a single week. Let alone for a multiple weeks in a row.

    4. Re: In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they were important then they couldn't be gone for two weeks. That shows the importance of hiring good employees. At my current employer, I haven't been able to take a full week off since 1996.

    5. Re: In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Loose focus? I think you mean lose focus.

      100 work weeks are the norm in Seattle. You might as well be the old man yelling at clouds.

    6. Re: In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If those people can take two weeks off then they obviously weren't important.

    7. Re: In Yakima, WA... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      There's a bunch of research that shows for 'knowledge worker' applications, productivity peaks at 20 hours a week, plateaus until 40, and then drops off. This is particularly true for software development where it takes a few seconds to make a tired mistake and then a week to debug it. Above 80 hours a week, most people are actually doing a negative net amount of work: they're making so many mistakes that it eats more time fixing them than if they'd just taken the week off and accomplished nothing. If your fix for people working 80-hour weeks and introducing a load of bugs is to make them work 100-hour weeks to fix them, then you're on a path that leads to ever shipping a product.

      Note that this is only true for sustained periods: brief bursts followed by time off can boost latency, but not improve throughput for workers.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody forces you to have a shitty job or live in a place where only shitty jobs are available.

    9. Re:In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's been a lot of research on people being overworked. You can overwork menial jobs and not have much issue other than health problems for the worker, but if a job involves any amount of thinking, quality drops quickly into negative value gained.

    10. Re:In Yakima, WA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought you were a maintenance guy for a condo tower who was stuck with dial up modems because of the gubmint?

    11. Re: In Yakima, WA... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      There was this complete idiot who decided to do an all-nighter. At 2 a.m. I^H he was 90% finished but fading fast. Instead of going to his hotel (all of 400 yards away), taking a nap and coming in early he pushed through and at 2:15 *totally* broke it.

      By 7 the next morning he'd more or less got it back to where he'd been 5 hours earlier...

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  12. Keep a direct line of communication to the CEO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've always found keeping a direct line of communication with CEO and board is the best way. Just Cc your boss in the emails on your amazing cost saving innovative idea and thank your boss for allowing you to go direct to the top. If the CEO likes what you've said win win for you and your boss. Your boss isn't going to chew you out if it looks like he already approved you going up the chain and your idea is approved, that would be a show of a bad boss.
    But honestly chatting with the CEO whenever you pass on a coffee break makes it easier.
    I've never wanted to work for a company with more than a few thousand employees and only one level of management between me the board. If there's more levels than that the jobs to far down the rungs to make a difference and thats not a job I want.

  13. Qualcomm had this 10-20 years ago by Snotnose · · Score: 1

    They had an internal email address where you could email your ideas. Mine was to have the phone hold the data, when you were at your desk you could plug it into a docking station and get more storage, a keyboard, and a display. Plus it would run Word, Excel, whatever. Got rejected :(

    1. Re: Qualcomm had this 10-20 years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a dumb idea.

      /sarcasm

    2. Re:Qualcomm had this 10-20 years ago by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      In fairness, the docking station you describe was attempted by... was it motorola... on a specific line of android phones. It failed miserably (at least commercially).

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    3. Re:Qualcomm had this 10-20 years ago by Paco103 · · Score: 1

      The Motorola Atrix. I had it.
      It failed because
      1) The "full desktop and office suite" was actually just a full version of Firefox on android. Everything else was just fullscreen apps. The 'office suite' was just google docs in firefox, which was less than ideal over a mobile connection, and offline docs didn't exist at the time.
      2) The laptop doc was $300. Phones were still not that powerful yet at the time, and for that price I could buy a real laptop. I bought mine when they had a fire sale at $50.
      3) The Atrix never got updated past 2.2, and had an encrypted bootloader. With a dual core processor and 1GB RAM at the time it wasn't bad, but it needed the software updates and I couldn't even install CyanogenMod on it.

      Where it was great though,
      1) The dock provided a battery, keyboard, mouse, and screen. No processing capabilities. Nothing to really grow out of date, if it had been more universal to the next line of phones.
      2) When you switched between doc and laptop mode, your open browsers and apps could either stay in that mode or be accessed to launch in the new mode.
      3) ALL Android apps could be launched full screen on the laptop. I used this to watch netflix a fair amount.
      4) No data sync!

      Remembering the good parts, I have funded the superbook project on kickstarter (over). http://www.sentio.com/
      With the open design not bound to a specific hardware, and the improvements in phone hardware over the years, I can't wait to get this thing!

  14. All ideas are not good ideas by belthize · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I despise the new MBA management style that all ideas have merit or that there are no stupid questions.

    In my experience many of the people I've run across who complain that the company managers (or me when I was in that position) don't respect their ideas don't realize that their ideas are crap. They typically have a very myopic view of what the company does, what it needs or what constitutes a good idea. They have no real concept of risk, logistics, development overhead, basic physics, human nature or a slew of other issues. Their ideas can be frequently characterized as 'wouldn't be cool if'.

    I rose through the ranks with a GED and no college education in an environment dominated by PhDs by having what turned out to be good ideas.

    So sure, in some environments, good ideas are squashed by pointy haired bosses, but many times it's just a dumb idea.

    1. Re:All ideas are not good ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And how will those people grow and learn that the idea wasn't good because they didn't take into consideration XYZ when their managers lie to them by saying it's a good idea while the manager tosses it into the trash? These aren't bad employees, they're trying to improve the company the best they can. These are crappy managers who won't help their underlings grow.

      "Wouldn't it be cool if" should be followed up with "and how will that fit in with YXZ?"

    2. Re: All ideas are not good ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have no education. You are unqualified to determine whether ideas are good or not.

      Have you considered running for President?

    3. Re:All ideas are not good ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you finally learnt that? Good.

    4. Re:All ideas are not good ideas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most ideas that turn out to be good ideas were called dumb ideas initially. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, & Snapchat were all called dumb ideas. JK Rowling's Harry Potter book was rejected by 12 different publishing houses. Decca Records rejected The Beatles. Just because you can't see that something is a good idea, doesn't mean it is bad. Twitter was the dumbest idea many of us had heard in IT at the time it started. Now it is a valuable service. If you want to innovate, forget about innovating at your company. Do it on your own.

    5. Re:All ideas are not good ideas by cwsumner · · Score: 1

      If everyone around you is an asshole, you're probably the asshole.

      True, a lot of times. But not always...

      Assholes cause people to act like assholes, it can be contageous! Be careful how you react to such things, or you can end up being the one blamed. ;-)

  15. Innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    Innovation is bullshit. Do your job, do it well, and explain to all your barely competent peers how to imitate your behaviors. 80% of wasted potential at work is because people don't know even 20% of what they should. Low hanging fruit, people.

    The only good reason to "innovate" is to convince some dope you need a charge number to use for jerking off in the supply closet.

    That, or if you are the kind that likes playing office politics and you think you can make some other asshole lose face by making their work seem trivial. Appearance is everything here, substance is nothing. The ideal outcome is that you and your enemy know it's bullshit, but everybody else thinks it's brilliant and your enemy is forced to implement your sabotage or be seen as "not a team player".

    1. Re:Innovation by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      It is quite easy for a business to get stuck in an illogical process, and it generally takes someone not invested in the details of that process to force change. Identifying tools to break the chain is one way, and generally needs people with different experience. At my company we are completely changing the way we do about 40% of our work due to switching software systems. This creates opportunities to look at the remaining 60%, and try to see what has changed.

      The same thing happened when the fax machine came into the office, and again with email. The most recent "global" one is the dual monitor and large monitor craze, which changes expectations for print material and paperless processes.

  16. Systems by roman_mir · · Score: 5, Interesting

    First thing you have to realise is that Systems Exist.
    Systems follow very specific laws. The first Law of Systems is that all Systems follow the Law of Self Preservation. The second Law of Systems is that all Systems Fight Against Change within themselves. Systems follow the Law of Structural Conformity. Systems follow the Law of Growth and Development.

    1. Systems Exist.
    2. Systems Preserve Themselves.
    3. Systems Fight Against Change Within.
    4. Systems Ensure Structural Conformity.
    5. Systems Grow and Develop.

    All of these laws of Systems exist only to protect the Systems from being destroyed. Systems do not care about innovation or quality, they care to grow, to protect themselves from change that can cause self destruction, they ensure that all of their internal structures are organized to ensure self preservation, they grow just to become bigger and to have a better chance of survival.

    Once you understand this you will understand why it is obvious and expected that systems prevent any type of innovation coming from individuals within the system.

    It is also important to understand one more thing: when systems cannot cope with something, they stop it, they may destroy it, but if the fundamentals upon which the system relies are themselves flawed, the system reliance on those fundamentals also makes those systems ultimately vulnerable to destruction.

    1. Re:Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzt---Wrong.

      The first rule of Systems is that we do not talk about Systems.

    2. Re: Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, that works for Systems, but what about businesses and corporations?

    3. Re: Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      EVERYTHING is a system...

  17. Re:Well no fuckin shit by neoRUR · · Score: 1

    And the next month the person whose idea won was to reduce the award to $25

  18. Uber is an improvement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I figured that Uber could be a supplier of software for a city's taxi service. But, there is more money in Uber running everything.

    Uber can use a smartphone app, instead of using human labor for answering a phone. Routing is done with GPS and computers, instead of humans in a dispatch center. Drivers can log on and off, with a smartphone app and computers, instead of calling up humans in a dispatch center..... I guess Uber benefits in automating a human run taxi dispatch center.

  19. Language. by jondeanmack · · Score: 0

    You've got your definitions of words all wrong. I used to be God.

  20. What are "good ideas people"? by Nunya666 · · Score: 1

    I had to read the first sentence 3 times just to figure out WTF the summary was trying to discuss.

    1. Re:What are "good ideas people"? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Everyone's own ideas are brilliant. Everyone else's ideas are a hassle.

  21. Be careful with "your" innovative ideas. by locoluis · · Score: 1

    Because once they're accepted by the company, they're no longer yours, but the company's. Even if they say no to you, they may later fire you and claim your idea as theirs.

    A difference must be made. On one side, there's your job and what you're paid to do for the company, how you use the company's time and resources, in order to contribute to their projects and achieve their goals.

    On the other side, you, your own ideas, projects and goals, which hopefully shouldn't overlap those of the company; what you do in your own time with your own resources, at home, away from the office.

    Reread your contract, and pay attention to any and all comments about Intellectual Property. Your contract most likely has a Non-Compete clause (unless your jurisdiction prohibits it, as it's the case in California).

    If you're still okay with that, then think about the costs, risks and consequences of your idea. Many things that looked great on paper become a nightmare to implement, and eventually became lost at the bottom of the priority pool, as company resources become assigned to more urgent priorities.

    Talk with as many people as possible about your idea. Let it become discussed, analyzed and criticized. Your direct boss may not be happy with it, but if your idea is good you may somehow become a John Houbolt and find a Robert Seamans who can bring attention from the higher-ups to your idea.

    1. Re: Be careful with "your" innovative ideas. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have a programming idea that you would like to implement, you can say "I think we should be doing this", either the reply will be "We don't have time, we don't have the money or staff" . But then they just might say "An excellent idea, we'll go to HR and get them to hire some people".

      Better to say "I've done this in the past, and have a working version" or "I've got a demo at home".

    2. Re: Be careful with "your" innovative ideas. by goose-incarnated · · Score: 3

      Better to say "I've done this in the past, and have a working version" or "I've got a demo at home".

      Stupid - if it is already done by yourself and exists (even prior to you joining the company), then the company will simply claim it. Fighting for ownership of a product, even with overwhelming evidence on your side, will cost more money that you make in a year. Add to this the fact that you'll be unemployed while fighting for ownership.

      Don't be stupid, be smart - if you have already created a product (or parts of one) then don't offer it to your company (don't even let them know it exists), simply leave and start your own company.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    3. Re:Be careful with "your" innovative ideas. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just don't bother. Unless there is something in your contract that says "you must present new ideas", or a very, very clear benefit to be had, why would you? Don't fall for the bullsh*t companies try to use to brainwash their employees: you do good work, you get paid, that's it.

    4. Re: Be careful with "your" innovative ideas. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If it existed before you joined the company, bring it up in contract negotiations and get it recorded there.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  22. I always worked for small companies by zephvark · · Score: 1

    Maybe what has been said here applies only to huge corporations. In almost all of the companies I've worked for, the boss was very happy to hear my ideas. We might argue over some of them but, generally, he was entirely happy to steal them outright. My code, my policies, my naming schemes... or should I say, "his". I got paid for it. I'm only mildly miffed. I have more where that came from. Still, I was the engine in his company, and the one before it, and the one before that. That's kind've why I got the jobs, though, so this had an adequate payout. They did always listen.

    1. Re:I always worked for small companies by Notabadguy · · Score: 1

      Maybe what has been said here applies only to huge corporations. In almost all of the companies I've worked for, the boss was very happy to hear my ideas. We might argue over some of them but, generally, he was entirely happy to steal them outright. My code, my policies, my naming schemes... or should I say, "his". I got paid for it. I'm only mildly miffed. I have more where that came from. Still, I was the engine in his company, and the one before it, and the one before that. That's kind've why I got the jobs, though, so this had an adequate payout. They did always listen.

      This.

      I was at a global all-hands meeting for my division of GE a year or two ago (I'm a project manager). Our GM went through all the numbers for our industry - we own most of the market share in most areas of the world except for the United States, and his challenge for the upcoming year was to increase market penetration in the U.S. by 4%.

        Now..it just so happened that as a project manager, my metrics for success are revenue, margin, and customer satisfaction - and if there's one thing you can count on at GE, it's your bonus structure being tied to unreasonable goals that are "stretched" beyond anything achievable. Like...if your division does 4 billion in sales in a year and the market contracts - you may forecast an optimistic 4 billion in repeat sales, but you're stretched to 6 billion. I'd been working for a year or two to improve GE's reputation within a certain customer segment, and had a solid plan that probably would have gotten us half of that market penetration goal by expanding the scope of my non-GE services to other customers who wanted to utilize our repair network.

      GE is risk averse, and this GM had been pushing the removal of involvement with non-GE equipment as an ongoing "risk avoidance" program. At the end of his pitch to all of us, I raised my hand, got called on, and made a 30 second pitch on how we could grow our U.S. services penetration by $36 million immediately, $9 million year over year GUARANTEED, with the ability to platform that movement into growth that I couldn't accurately forecast. All I needed was a thumbs up and I would have taken care of the rest. He says, "We just signed _____ for $3 billion. Fuck your $36 million."

      I sat back down.

  23. Re: Well no fuckin shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    99% of the ideas workers submit which they claim are "innovative".... aren't. Usually it's completely pointless and has no benefit and quite frequently has drawbacks. Much of the time it's already been tried and failed.

    Ideas are cheap and readily available. Good ideas are not.

  24. Machiavelli said it best by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And it ought to be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under the new. This coolness arises partly from fear of the opponents, who have the laws on their side, and partly from the incredulity of men, who do not readily believe in new things until they have had a long experience of them. Thus it happens that whenever those who are hostile have the opportunity to attack they do it like partisans, whilst the others defend lukewarmly, in such wise that the prince is endangered along with them.

  25. Re:Well no fuckin shit by b783719 · · Score: 1

    Until the first woman presents a cost-saving analysis claiming the old contest is not effective, and brings back the innovation contest with the award of $100.

  26. Re: Well no fuckin shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Ideas are like, let's implement the high level GUI of our application using a Java/Python/LUA/QML engine. That way, we'll save development time by not needing our C++ programmers to do this work. What actually happens is that they now need to hire more programmers to do that GUI work and even more to handle the binding layers. Adding a new feature now requires waiting for a script programming person to become available.

    Or it might be replacing one code layer of a software stack with another. For the person who knows that API, that gives them job security for the project. For everyone else who doesn't, that locks them out of that part of the project.

  27. Is this a joke? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can only assume snowflake logic is at work here. Why would anyone not part of the managing structure of a business presume unsolicited advice would be taken seriously? I think the author is mistaking naive arrogance for experienced confidence, and it's pretty much just silly. Sorry your parents lied to you about the world, it really isn't our job to fix that.

  28. Ideas are a dime a dozen by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 4, Informative

    It's execution that's hard. Sure, the person on the shop floor or in the cube farm might have an idea that seems great, but making that idea happen politically within the organization is very, very hard. People don't like change. That "good" idea might be somebody else's worst nightmare, and they're going to fight tooth and nail to keep it from happening. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, it's just reality. That's why people who CAN change things become the leaders.

  29. Sounds dysfunctional by mattwarden · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Did they use only dysfunctional large orgs for their research? Many ideas "die on my desk" because they don't make sense. And it's not the idea generator's fault; he or she has a more narrow viewport into the business's operations and strategy. It's important to shoot bad ideas down in the right way, though, because 1 in 20 will be brilliant, and another 5 might cause you to think about something related that could work. So you don't want to discourage innovative people, which is naturally what you would end up doing if you're shooting down 19 out of 20 ideas.

    The other thing I think is weird about this article is that the biggest problem with ideas is change management, and the biggest problem with change management is rallying the rank and file behind it. It's great to have this cool new flavor of agile that everyone should use, and I might agree with you, but how do we roll that out and get everyone to buy in? And how many such things can we roll out until people get tired of change? It's great to beat up management for "ignoring" ideas, but I think it let's the largest % of the company off the hook for being perennially resistant to change.

    1. Re:Sounds dysfunctional by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Agree here. A lot of people can't see the big picture. I see a lot of ideas about switching to different tools for example, but they seem to think it's easy to do. But you've got to get some budget for it, you have to get buy in from many departments, and so on. But even worse, it will take TIME and slow down everyone.

      I see a lot of ideas that about about making the work environment more comfortable for the person with the ideas. They may think they're helping out the entire team but you never see the idea giver say "I personally hate this tool but I think the team should use it for the better good", instead it's "I love this tool, I used it in my last job, and you need to adopt it now!"

      Or someone wants to just go an implement a new idea without seeing how other departments feel, or how it will affect the customer, how much retraining is needed, how it will affect the schedules, and so forth. Sure it may sound like the boss is just griping about your work all day long but you've got to get the primary job done FIRST. It is really distressing to hear one of your workers say that they didn't work on the assigned tasks because they were working on this cool new feature instead, because it means you have to go to your boss or director or the project manager and have them shout at you for being late.

      The workplace is where you do work. It's not called the funplace. 90% of it will be dull and boring, the other 10% will be dull or boring. The job is to do what the company needs doing, not doing what the employee wants to do. And so many of these ideas don't seem to get that.

    2. Re:Sounds dysfunctional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's great to have this cool new flavor of agile that everyone should use, and I might agree with you, but how do we roll that out and get everyone to buy in?

      1) Pilot it before rolling it out. Make sure the pilot group is representative of at least 2/3 of the larger organization.
      2) Get local champions per team / department that can be focals. Much easier for me to buy in when I can ask somebody I know and get an answer in 2 minutes than trying to contact somebody I don't know and waiting 2+ days for an answer.
      3) Convince the rank and file it will save them time/effort per day IN ADDITION to being good for the business. Otherwise that cuts into my personal time and said time will never be reflected in my paycheck - only in executive management's/shareholders.

      Don't have all three? Don't do it.

      There is an excellent case study on this with Nike breaking into the women's fitness market. Downside - the team who made this happen worked 80+ hours a - i.e. a handful of people got recognition/promotions/bonuses, everybody else got more work:
      https://hbr.org/product/nike-s...

      Paywalled but you can find a copy if you look.

    3. Re:Sounds dysfunctional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do not see if that is the case with either of the parent commenters but I do see this often enough in my daily job in a large organization - ideas go nowhere. There is no feedback, no explanation. Often enough, the changes come down with exactly the same - an order with no explanation as to what the change is or why it is being done. Best case scenario, we get managerspeak directly from Dilbert that bears absolutely no relevance to what or why.

      The result - no one really cares about changes, not talking about new ideas and fiercely resisting new orders. This is death spiral of an organization.

      Especially if there is an official process for submitting ideas, there should also be feedback. "Would work for you/your team but not rest of teams and having two different tools is not feasible for cost reasons" is good enough but silence is disheartening.

    4. Re:Sounds dysfunctional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .

      Dysfunctional large organizations are more prevalent and available for these types of studies where ideas die. Small businesses innovate because they have to, they take a lot of little swings and connect with the ball because they are up there at the plate. Big companies have so many layers and groups of people either focused on their activities outside work and want robot-duties at work or pointless politics and gossip. They are disconnected from that hunger to survive and prosper that small companies cannot ignore.

      Large companies struggle with change until they are financially on the ropes where they are forced into all kinds of exciting change. They cut headcount 20% and find they actually still get the real work done, new ideas for saving effort and time get implemented. Suddenly more ideas make sense. Implementation happens because the dead-wood-desks are not stopping them any more. The business cycle saves the smart companies while the others perish outright or get acquired and killed off. There is no room for lackadaisical middle management when the hull is punched with cannon shot.

      In good times the ideas die which leads to the bad times where the jobs die. You'd think management workers would wake up to that, but they don't.

      .

    5. Re:Sounds dysfunctional by Talderas · · Score: 1

      The one innovation we tried to get buy in for that failed miserably was a significant means to reduce the amount of printing going on in the organization as well as reduce order entry errors by relying on OCR. We currently print off a document, on average, roughly 1.8 times due to having multiple physical locations all copies of which are destroyed and we have a number of digital copies of this document equivalent to approximately 3-4 times thanks to mailboxes and document management systems. The current process is a huge waste and the managers realize this and have attempted to get it addressed. It was doomed to failure despite the huge potential cost saves in printing as well as the cost savings in time with opening orders and cost savings from reduction of errors. it was doomed because the team responsible for entering the details of the orders, which the custom nature of our products make it difficult to automate that step, doesn't want to go paperless. Or rather, I should say that some members of that team have paper heavy checks and balance processes that they use that "require" the paper version of the document.

      In this case it is certainly a problem of some people not being able to see the big picture it's just that the people failing to see the big picture are the entrenched individuals that don't want to change. The company I work for has been growing and a lot of people who aren't in management don't realize that their tools and processes are no longer adequate for the size of the business or for continued growth and hiring new employees. You could say that there are about three to four distinct methods of doing the same thing and the upper managers have been seemingly working towards trying to standardize but these people who resist change are the problem along with the people responsible for communicating why changes are occurring. The former only see their own little world so they see a change and how it negatively impacts them and dig in their heels and fight it tooth and nail. They don't provide helpful feedback because the people responsible for communicating to them fail at their job. Then once the update is finished, pushed to production and the old data entry interface is shut off they won't do anything but bitch about it.

      I guess the point of this anecdote is that a failure to see the big picture is a problem for both the people pitching ideas as well as those who are impacted by ideas.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  30. Innovation is stupid by wakeboarder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Lets be honest, most of our innovative ideas are pure tripe. Why? Because it needs to be good for everyone, you, your department, the company and the customers. How many ideas are going to be good ideas for everyone, not many.

  31. Bull-stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hear all the time that people want innovation and new ideas.

    After discussions with them, it generally turns out that what they actually want is to have someone else come up with a great product they can claim credit for onselling, and they think that this is a legitimate approach to business.

  32. Re: Well no fuckin shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've got cheeto stains on my clothes too

  33. Boss chooses, not innovates by GerryHattrick · · Score: 1

    Being a good Big Boss isn't often about bright ideas - it's about choosing among people and their ideas (or other skills). And balancing product/org. ideas against corporate finance ideas too. Better an overpromoted football coach than a dreamy scientist. (No, I didn't mention US politics).

  34. bleh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are software "engineers" the only folk left on /. ?
    Every case/opinion mentioned seems to be about innovation in software..
    Me,I work with .y hands and my brain,if you want bosses that may listen to a good idea,don't work for companies that have layer after layer of expencive,usless managers,I worked for small firms,had good,simple ideas that could be shown to save work,money and that our customers liked and wanted,many of my ideas were tried,most turned out to be good,saved work/time/costs for us doing the actual work,which meant we could do more work at lower cost,company saved money,which meant A) more profit or B) drop price to customer and get more work C) both at once,cut price for customer and also make more profit from same customer base..
    Not everything in the world revolves round software,many may think it's the single most important thing in the world,let's see yer software unblock a drain or supply the power your software burns through while achieving very little of anything with real worth to anybody,except a few more scrappy code handlers..

  35. Re: Well no fuckin shit by TimothyHollins · · Score: 1

    99% of the ideas workers submit today tend to be on "how to make the men's restroom more inclusive" or "affirming the voices of the marginalized employees". That's not innovation, that's madness.

    Furthermore, most suggested "innovations" add something to an existing process or create a new one to follow, very few remove/reorganize the workflow into something less inefficient, which is usually what's needed. It's a hell of a lot easier to see the benefits in reducing daily workload than it is in yet another process that needs to be followed.

  36. Look at yourselves by jandersen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The mindset expressed in the posting here is a perfect illustration of exactly what is the article's main point: the all-out negative attitude that pervades the teams at floor-level; and, may I add, this is particularly common among SW engineers, believe it or not. I think we all imagine that we are clever and sometimes inspired thinkers who are excited about new technology and new ways of doing things - but are we really? I have seen it again and again: any article that tries to present a new insight to /. seems to be met with this hailstorm of negative comments, and I see it here again. There's the comments along the lines of "This is [obscenity of choice] obvious, what a load of shit", and the "Most [obscenity of choice] idiots who think they are so [obscenity of choice] clever are just [obscenity of choice] idiots" as well as the usual N-step list of reasons why it is never going to work (which is marked "5 insightful", of course).

    This article is in fact rather well written, and I think the reason it receives so much negativity here is exactly because it hits too close to home for many people: You it is true, and most of us are almost instictively against anything new, however much we pride ourselves of being the opposite. That includes myself, I have to say, but I try to be conscious about it from time to time, and try to be open minded. In Denmark we call this mindset "the Law of Jante" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante); Terry Pratchett calls it "the crab bucket" (in Unseen Academicals, if you want to check) - the explanation being that if you observe a bucket full of crabs, you will see that some times one will start climbing out, and then the others grabs it and pulls it back down. "Don't think you are cleverer than us".

    Can't you see it? People around you can't find the way out of the bucket, but they sure can stop you from escaping the misery and a future in which you are all dumped into boiling water. This is one of the main reasons why people hate going to work, and why innovation only ever happens if the company buys up another company that has already developed the innovation; but it does not have to be like that. This is one of the admittedly few occasions where the blame doesn't fall on incompetent management, but on yourself and the people around you; that means that it ought to be something we can actually change, by a change of attitude.

    1. Re:Look at yourselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, people here are excited about new things.

      People here *also* are often qualified enough to tell you why x can't work, and make a list of reasons.

      Strong reasons why some idea can't work really aren't usually about pulling others down into the bucket of misery and destroying their dreams. Has nothing to do with crab buckets full of allegedly jealous crabs and resistance to cool new things. Has everything with an educated view on problems.

    2. Re:Look at yourselves by LienRag · · Score: 1

      This is one of the main reasons why people hate going to work,

      If people hate going to work, then they really shouldn't...
      I understand it's easy to say, but there are actually few situations when one is better going to a work he hates than trying to make his life worthy of living.

  37. glad, or lucky? by haphaeu · · Score: 2

    jeez, so many negative comments in this thread. I wish I knew better about your jobs, to make sure I never get one of these. I must say we have a positive environment towards innovation. We have a constant program that qualifies ideas and supports the good ones with a budget. The thing is, a rough feeling of a "brilliant" idea os not enough. You have to work on it yourself, and prove that it is worth investing on it. Then you get it a few hours to mature your idea and make a plan. Passing that, you can get more hours and maybe even a small team to work (part time) on that, And so on. In practice, we always have some one doing some kind of innovation. After working with this for years, having spent myself quite a few hundreds of hours in these projects, even with a team, I must say that the largest barrier for this is the people having the ideas. Most of the people don't seem to give a damn about this program and rather sit in their desks doing the same old job, and please don't suggest any changes, right? But gladly I can say yes, people having good ideas are heard and supported.

  38. Employee ideas: No, they're dumb by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... Your idea is far more likely to ...

    ... involve the company spending a lot of money so you and your colleagues can feel good about your job. Yes, many bosses give their employees shitty tools to use. Meaning, if you can't describe how your idea can save you time and double-handling, you're not thinking about your boss.

  39. Re: Well no fuckin shit by dave420 · · Score: 1

    As you've not surveyed every single company, you can't expect anyone to take your post on face value. I'm sure you might feel what you wrote is true...

  40. Re: Well no fuckin shit by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    99% of the ideas workers submit which they claim are "innovative".... aren't. Usually it's completely pointless and has no benefit and quite frequently has drawbacks. Much of the time it's already been tried and failed.

    Ideas are cheap and readily available. Good ideas are not.

    I know what you mean, my idea to let me work from home for double the pay and half the work load didn't go down very well, I thought it was a good idea at least.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  41. Or as Machiavelli would say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "And it ought to be remembered that there is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. Because the innovator has for enemies all those who have done well under the old conditions, and lukewarm defenders in those who may do well under the new. This coolness arises partly from fear of the opponents, who have the laws on their side, and partly from the incredulity of men, who do not readily believe in new things until they have had a long experience of them. Thus it happens that whenever those who are hostile have the opportunity to attack they do it like partisans, whilst the others defend lukewarmly, in such wise that the prince is endangered along with them."

    The Prince by Nicolo Machiavelli
    http://www.constitution.org/ma...

  42. Re: Well no fuckin shit by TimothyHollins · · Score: 1

    You are correct. This is only what I've heard from my two friends (who had strikingly similar experiences even though they worked at different places), both of whom have worked at multiple different companies. So, if you want to be very specific, it only holds for a sample of some 4-8 large companies.

  43. Re: Well no fuckin shit by VikingNation · · Score: 1

    Political dynamics (organization dynamics) can cause ideas to by killed. Embarrassing management in front of a large group will also get your ideas killed. It is important to consider how ideas are socialized and communicated.

  44. Re: Well no fuckin shit by VikingNation · · Score: 1

    Wolfgang Pauli was a brilliant physicist who did not suffer fools. One time he insulted someone with an idea so bad that it "was not even wrong"

  45. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  46. Re:More astute than the article by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

    Buyouts have a more predictable ROI. Do you want a company that returns an annual average 20% on investment over 30 years, but varies between -30% and +50% as it goes, or do you want a company that returns an annual average of 7% on investment year after year, varying between 5% and 9% as it goes?

    Startups return between -100% and 10,000% on investment, averaging something like 25% in the big picture. It's not a game for the marginally financed, which most of us are.

  47. Simple answer.... by billybiro · · Score: 2

    This is simply and succinctly explained in this cartoon, Safe Is Risky, from 2014.

    In a nutshell:

    Organizations can spot the risks of a new idea a mile away. But there’s a curious blind spot when it comes to the risks of not taking those risks. The path of least resistance is to play it safe and keep the idea as close to the tried-and-true as possible. We just need to ask Polaroid how that strategy works in the long run.

    Executives and entrepreneurs face two very different sorts of risks. One is that their organization will make a bold move that failed — a risk they call ‘sinking the ship.’ The other is that their organization will fail to make a bold move that would have succeeded — a risk they call ‘missing the boat.’

    Naturally, most executives worry more about sinking the boat than missing the boat, which is why so many organizations, even in flush times, are so cautious and conservative.

  48. Innovation is easy. Change is hard. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The subject says it all. Think about it.

  49. Re:Well no fuckin shit by FeelGood314 · · Score: 4, Informative

    A very large company I worked for had this for about 3 months and the reward was a percentage of the money you saved the company. It was well thought out and ideas were all considered. The first 3 winners were secretaries of senior management and all their ideas were ones that senior management should have already implemented. The program was then canceled and I think the secretaries got screwed out of the percentage they saved.

  50. Re: Well no fuckin shit by yagu · · Score: 1
    +1 Clever.

    Ran out of real mod points.

    Probably a "whooosh" for most.

    Nicely played.

  51. Some managers consciously know that by Xamusk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On one interview, a manager actually told me that I wasn't fit for the job because I was too innovative. They were looking for people to do more of the same, even if they had a lot of room for improvement, they didn't want it.

  52. A more optimistic viewpoint by maiden_taiwan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I work for a company that's reasonably large (8000+ people) and is consistently profitable, and we prize and celebrate innovation. People are encouraged to try out ideas quickly and if they fail, at least they failed fast. We have an intranet website where people post their successes and learnings. I personally know many coworkers who came up with ideas, implemented them, and made money for the company.

    I am a technical manager of a team that specializes in automating manual processes and eliminating waste. I very intentionally leave room for my direct reports to innovate. If they come to me with an idea -- this is a critical point -- I treat my opinion as a HYPOTHESIS, not as absolute truth. After all, I am just guessing whether their idea will work or not. I'd rather have them build a minimum viable example to get some empirical evidence if their idea will work or not.

    If I think their idea has no chance whatsoever of succeeding, I'll put forward my objections and see if they have good answers for them. This discussion is important. Sometimes they show me I am wrong, which is fine with me. (Nobody's perfect.) Other times my objections spur them to come up with a more robust idea.

    Anyway, not all companies are pits of innovation death.

  53. Company Culture by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    A company I worked for had a plan from day 1 to sell the company in a specific time. Shortly after I was hired I saw an opportunity to really revamp the manual and time consuming processes. I automated several tasks for my own use/sanity. I attempted to demonstrate time is money. Long story short, because I didn't know the red flags to look for this lead to a hostile job environment and attacking write-ups. The owners/VPs didn't care about improving any process. It was just a mad dash to whip employees to work night/weeks for maximum profit before the company was given/sold back to original investors. I also found that management/VPs didn't understand how using best practices would benefit everyone. It's just business. If you feel you aren't appreciated of fulfilled then there is always other opportunities out there.

  54. Re:Well no fuckin shit by sysrammer · · Score: 1

    An oldie but a goodie.

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  55. Re:Well no fuckin shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why not? The Suits expect it all the time. We have to wade through a morass of buzzword-bingo and airline-magazine headlines to figure out what they're trying to accomplish when they attempt The Next Great Project.

  56. Re:Well no fuckin shit by sysrammer · · Score: 1

    Ditto. Big meeting, big new program. Our engineering group immediately spent a good amount of time investigating replacement of our IBM mainframes with Fujitsu's, at about half the price. We were well motivated, as we would receive a good chunk of change from the savings.

    After about three months we never heard about the program again.

    I imagine, though, that upper mgmt could have used this data in negotiations with IBM, and may have gotten better stock^W licensing options.

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  57. Re:Well no fuckin shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not selling any idea worth implementing for $100. My idea saves the company 50k and I get 100? Nope.

  58. They will reject your new innovative change by phorm · · Score: 1

    But reserve the right to sue the begeezus out of anyone that quits and tried to implement them elsewhere (either on their own or by joining another company).

  59. Re: Well no fuckin shit by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    Political dynamics (organization dynamics) can cause ideas to by killed.

    Indeed- I can think of a maor example. Political dynamics and those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo have been noted by more than one person as the reason that- despite employing countless talented people in their research division- Microsoft rarely seemed to be able to translate this into actually releasing anything truly innovative and well developed enough to succeed.

    This post I made a few years back references this in more detail.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  60. Contribute seems to be one-way. by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

    If you being asked to contribute, that is an indicator of lazy or dumb management - You give the "idea" work, they get the pay! Go work for a better smaller company. You are not garbage, nor something to be disposed of after your idea is given.

  61. Real Innovation by PPH · · Score: 1

    Or is this some intern grumbling that his boss didn't buy into his suggestion to port the company product to Esolang?

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  62. Past experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was quite innovative when I was working for several companies as a software engineer. I never asked permission to enact the innovations I put into place. They would always eventually be discovered and management would usually be very appreciative. There were a few occasions that immediate managers would become angry that I was doing something innovative, accusing me of possibly doing something that might screw up production, when in fact it always enhanced production But upper management always had me covered though and lower management didn't dare complain about me.

  63. Re: Well no fuckin shit by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Some wop guy - Micky Valli or something - said it 400 years ago.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  64. Re: Well no fuckin shit by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

    I don't even think it's political dynamics. If you're looking at an entire organization of however many levels of management (call it X), then in order for an idea to burble up to the largest chunks at the top of the bureaucratic cesspool, it needs to get a YES at every level, which means X yesses in a row. One NO and it's done. Simple math means most ideas die easily even if every level "wants' new ideas and only kills half of the dumb ones, at each level.

  65. SGI Rumour vs. Facts by BuckB · · Score: 1

    The SGI story above just isn't true. In fact, SGI bosses there typically said "yes," costing the company billions, and in my opinion, causing it's ultimate (1st) downfall. NVidia: First off, NVidia was founded in 1993 by Jen-Hsun Huang (from LSI and AMD), Chris Malachowsky (from Sun), and Curtis Priem (from Sun). None of these guys worked at SGI. Yes, there were trickles of engineers who left SGI to go to NVidia - and 3dfx, Quantum3d, ATI, and E&S. The mass exodus of SGI engineers to NVidia did not happen until 1999, and that was a byproduct of SGI imploding. You might be thinking of 1997 and Quantum3d, but that was SGI execs not developers who helped that spinoff. SGI Did Build PC Graphics Cards and PC Graphics Workstations: Throughout the 1990s, engineers at SGI kept pushing the PC-graphics solution. Probably the first one, IrisVision, was introduced in 1991 as an offshoot of IBM licensing the Personal Iris tech for their PowerStation. The really important byproduct of this effort was converting IRIS GL into OpenGL. SGI knew OpenGL could cost them workstations but saw the future of PC graphics. IrisVision wasn't successful, mainly because of the PCI port speed. So, SGI engineers sold management on making their own motherboard. Which they did, and the SGI 320 and 540 Visual Workstations were begun and finally launched in 1999 to a cost of approx. $300million. These were great machines with tremendous capabilities, and were met with strong initial demand. However, each rev to CPU or memory or PCI required an incredible amount of work and SGI's advantages were quickly surpassed by AGP 2.0. So, SGI scrambled to find a more sustainable solution. Intergraph, who had made similar blunders (building their own motherboard in the 1990s, for an estimated engineering cost of $1billion), sold their workstation business to SGI in 2000 for $100m. SGI - The company where Bosses never said "no" I worked there for a short time, and worked closely with them through the 1990s. I use them as an example of the value of middle management. Engineers were constantly coming up with ideas, and frequently those ideas would go right to the top. "Instead of releasing Performer, let's add new features" "Let's build rides for DisneyQuest" "Let's try a completely new process to build the next InfiniteReality cards" "I know, let's make a whole new kernel and include every feature we can think of" "Let's compete against the WinIntel machine and build our own motherboard." There were tons of great engineers who tried in vain to throttle some of this, but the execs would treat any idea as gold - especially those that had nothing to do with the core business. Some were just ahead of their time, like IrisVision and Infrastructure As A Service so I don't fault them on that, but when you spend 80% of your attention on new ideas, your core business just goes away. By the way, the real boom in 3d graphics was the Voodoo cards from 3dfx and then the spinoff tech in Quantum3d. Those cards were the reason why game developers built 3d games. But, they, and the majority of the other PC graphic card manufacturers, eventually ceded the market to NVidia and ATI.

    1. Re:SGI Rumour vs. Facts by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Sure but it wasn't 3dfx which killed SGI's core business. 3dfx's hardware couldn't run OpenGL applications worth a damn. What killed SGI was Intergraph, Windows NT, Pentium Pro, and eventually NVIDIA.

    2. Re:SGI Rumour vs. Facts by BuckB · · Score: 1

      Nope

      Intergraph's workstation business died before SGI was in real trouble. Intergraph had spent $1B on their workstations and wound up with a buggy (due to Intel) machine that went for $20k, while at the time most people could get an Octane for that same price. The only people who bought Intergraph workstations were people who bought Intergraph software, so there wasn't any overlap in markets through the 90s. In fact, we often used the Intergraph example as why you should buy an SGI workstation.

      3dfx didn't run OpenGL at all. 3dfx ran Glide. At the time, Glide was far superior to OpenGL because it was almost direct to hardware, vs. OpenGL's abstraction layers, which further complicated things since game developers often assumed that a rendering feature was supported by hardware, when it wasn't. Games were written for Glide. 3dfx had 80-85% of the 3d accelerator market from 1995-2000. It was 3dfx's capabilities that opened the eyes of our team and all of our customers that PCs were ready for a lot of what O2, Octane, and even Onyx computers could do. (Search on the Voodoo and the Voodoo2.)

      Windows NT, launched in 1993 while SGI sales were still rising. If anything, the work in porting from Irix to WindowsNT caused people to stay with Irix. You could list NuTCRACKER, released in 1998(?), was a catalyst, but NT itself was not.

      Pentium Pro was a good chip - that's why SGI used it in some of their low end server offerings. However, the Pentium Pro suffered from a hobbled floating point pipeline - running about half as fast as MIPS and SPARC risc cpus. So, the Pentium Pro did not encroach at all on SGI's core business.

      NVidia was there to pick up the pieces, but at the time it was one of many PC graphics card manufacturers. NVidia didn't have a market leading card until the TNT/GeForce releases in 1999/2000.

  66. Linus says you're correct by BuckB · · Score: 1

    Success is 99% hard work and 1% innovation.

  67. I'm with you by BuckB · · Score: 1

    Don't know why you're getting all the hate, but I have squashed my share of dumb ideas. I love it when new people come in and instantly know what we should change.

  68. Evaluation by BuckB · · Score: 2

    On one of my early evaluations, I got a "too creative" comment. Now I just use my creativity on Easter Eggs that the bosses don't see.

  69. Why, you could write a whole book about this by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

    Why, you could write a whole book about this. And someone did.

    Clayton Christensen. _The Innovator's Dilemma_. http://www.claytonchristensen....

    --
    There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
  70. Re: Well no fuckin shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Care to share?