Uber Loses Legal Test Case Over Language (bbc.com)

Ride-hailing service Uber lost a court battle on Friday to stop a London regulator from forcing private hire drivers to prove their reading and writing skills in English, the latest setback for the firm in London which could now lose some workers. From a report: The ride-hailing app went to court after Transport for London (TfL) said that drivers should have to prove their ability to communicate in English. Uber argued that the standard of reading and writing required by the test was too high. The US firm said the test was "unfair and disproportionate" and it would appeal against the court's decision. The ruling will also apply to all minicab firms in London. "TfL are entitled to require private hire drivers to demonstrate English language compliance," said Judge John Mitting as he rejected Uber's claim. Tom de la Mare QC, for Uber and the drivers, told the judge that the language requirement would result in 70,000 applicants failing to obtain a licence over three years. The proposals would have a disproportionate impact on drivers from countries where English was not generally spoken and give rise to "indirect discrimination on grounds of race and nationality."

Comments

Who cares about the drivers,

[Anonymous Coward]

How about we require call center employees to demonstrate english language compliance?

Re:Who cares about the drivers,

[ausekilis]

I agree with the sentiment, though it is a bit short-sighted. The U.S. does not have an official language to enable people to stay in touch with their heritage, let those from Mexico continue to speak Spanish. These people are trying to work *with* English speakers for their job, they took the initiative of learning our language to do so. I'm as annoyed as the next person by the list-readers that are not tech support, usually I'm more irritated with their lack of help than I am with their ability to speak. I am literate and can read the bundled directions for my gadget, I'm calling tech support for a question your booklet doesn't answer.

    It's common for Europeans to be able to speak 3 or more languages. The U.S. doesn't reciprocate that idea, we seem to think that English should be the standard world-wide. We even go so far as to visit a country like France, and if they don't speak English, we speak English slower and LOUDER until they get what we are saying.

Re:Who cares about the drivers,

[Anonymous Coward]

the reason that many people in Europe speak multiple languages is because they are in close proximity to other countries where these languages are spoken. Europe is kind of like a shattered pane of glass of little countries all mixed together. It makes sense to be able to communicate with people who live near you. When you're from Arkansas.... not so much utility in knowing all these other languages when anyone with a thousand miles of you is an English speaker. It would be a waste of time that you could have spent learning something more useful to you.

We even go so far as to visit a country like France, and if they don't speak English, we speak English slower and LOUDER until they get what we are saying.

I've found a sturdy smack on the temple helps as well.

Re:Who cares about the drivers,

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it's useful to remember that in many cases, English is kind of the world's common language.

It's not so much that people from the US have some strange arrogance that the rest of the world doesn't exist. It's more so that first the British conquered a large amount of the world and then the US became the dominant country -- so English is a kind of standard.

That's why if you want to do international business and you're from France, you probably speak English as well. While it's not so necessary in reverse. It's more useful for those in other countries to learn English since it's so prolific.

Of course this can and most likely will change over the years. In a hundred years most of the world may speak Mandarin and it doesn't make sense for Chinese to spend their time learning some little country's language.

The point is, the water moves with the biggest boat. If you're on the biggest boat everything moves around you.

Re: Who cares about the drivers,

[prefec2]

Learning another language also provides you with cultural information on other countries and is an alternate way to think about anything. It provides you with a second view of the world. This is usually helpful, especially when you live in Arizona or North Dakota.

Re:Who cares about the drivers,

[painandgreed]

It's common for Europeans to be able to speak 3 or more languages.

And odds are one of them will be English. More than once I've heard someone from France say "Does anybody speak English? I need to find out how to get where I want to go." on a German bus. English (not American) is the de facto language of travellers (and air traffic controllers) because chances are the country you are in has been invaded by the English at some time in history.

Newspeak is real

[houghi]

This is not a "Ride-hailing company". It is a taxi company.

Re:Newspeak is real

[squiggleslash]

Ride hailing is actually a perfectly reasonable description. It's "ride sharing" that's the dubious - no, not dubious, more or less completely false - description of the main product.

Re:Newspeak is real

[UnknowingFool]

taxi company so do they have drivers with small 'topographical test' in order to obtain a 'Private Hire' Drivers Licence??

Yes private hire licenses require topographical assessment. Called the "The Knowledge" it is the most stringent test in world apparently.

You will need to undertake a topographical skills assessment from an accredited assessment centre

The requirements seem sensible:

• at least 21 years old
• valid drivers license at least 3 years old (no new drivers)
• valid work eligibility in UK (no illegal immigrants)
• background check
• medical exam
• topological test aka "The Knowledge"

Re:Newspeak is real

[UnknowingFool]

Maybe not but it's not exactly easy

Re:Newspeak is real

[UnknowingFool]

There is a topological test. Not to the level of The Knowledge but the guidelines seem to suggest you have to know your way around London somewhat.

If you can't mandate English in England..

[swb]

Does anyone really have a problem with requiring public hire drivers speak the local language? I mean, it is a place called "England" and presumably it's called "English" because it is the indigenous language of the people of England.

Re:If you can't mandate English in England..

[garyok]

Uber cabs are not public hire (that would be black cabs in London), they're private hire. You can't flag them on the street. But I have no problem with the ruling. You need to be able to talk to your taxi driver. You might have a preferred route, or need to give instructions round a one-way system, or tell them to let you out at the shops. It's a customer-facing position and it demands a certain level of communication skills, in this case an acceptable standard in the nation's official language.

And it's not like Uber are sticking up for the hard-working, hard-done-by drivers here. They just need warm bodies to keep accruing marketshare until the Johnnycabs are certified and they can ditch the lot of them.

Re:If you can't mandate English in England..

[houghi]

It is just so no Scots are able to work in London.

Re:If you can't mandate English in England..

[liquid_schwartz]

Does anyone really have a problem with requiring public hire drivers speak the local language? I mean, it is a place called "England" and presumably it's called "English" because it is the indigenous language of the people of England.

I know that where I live, the Peoples Republic of California, any rules about English only are viewed by many as tools of oppression against "undocumented immigrants" and the brown man in general. Of course this is also a state where the citizens can't figure out which bathroom to use and are spending billions on a bullet train to nowhere while actually used infrastructure rots so I have low expectations on common sense.

Re: If you can't mandate English in England..

[Type44Q]

...them languages

They picked that up when they got to Arkansas.

Re:I mean it's totally unfair.

[unixisc]

Maybe Uber should redo their rules so that any passenger who wants to use their ride must have a working knowledge of Urdu or Bangladeshi.

The value of clear communication

[fiannaFailMan]

I once got into a taxi at an airport in Chicago. Before we set off the driver pointed at the meter talking in thick Pidgin English that I could barely understand. The only word I could pick out was "meter." I just nodded politely and said yes because I wanted to get to my hotel for a meeting. When I got to the hotel he started wrangling with me to about paying more than was on the meter, apparently he had turned it off at some stage of the journey for some unfathomable reason. He got really belligerent about it too. The hotel was reimbursing me for the trip and after about five minutes of him, the hotel concierge and me trying to discuss it I just asked the manager to reimburse him what he wanted because I hadn't a clue what was going on and it was only another $20 or so.

I know that some people like apps like Uber because they minimize human communication, but it's still a vital skill. As long as you're not asking drivers to write a book report on Ulysses by Joyce, expecting them to communicate clearly in the local language is not too much to ask for.

Re:The value of clear communication

[King_TJ]

Exactly.... I don't call for an Uber because I'm looking forward to a long chat with the driver. But it's terrible service when they can't even communicate well enough to figure out where I want to go, or how to pick us up.

I had that experience in Rockville, MD recently when a group of us got tired of waiting on a MARC commuter train that had major delays. I called for an Uber but the driver who accepted it was unable to locate us. I could see him circling the vicinity on the map in the app, but he wasn't turning down the right side road to enter the "park and ride" lot where we were waiting. He called my cell at some point, trying to ask where we were, but it was impossible communicating that to him. He got frustrated and canceled our ride.

Tourist-level english ? Or university litterature

[DrYak]

A far as I've understood, the complain of Uber is that the official level imposed to cab driver is much more strict than uber asks from its driver.

Because of this uber is going to lose lots of driver who know enough bits of english to be functional in communicating with the client (e.g understand where to drive them), but who don't have advanced written/oral comprehension.

I.e.: Uber needs and selects people with A1 levels of language proficiency,
London imposes B2 levels on cab drivers.(*)

Or in other words, it's not london only requiring that people who handle services to english-speaking client to be able to communicate in English, but Uber complaining that their drivers don't need to be able to write an essay.(*)

---

(*) : According to Trinity College who handles such tests, cab drivers are in fact required to have B1 level of english language proficiency, which does include reading/writing comprehension.

the A levels are basic communication/survival (ask your way arround, go shopping, etc.)
the B levels are more complex communication (be able to tell a story, describe your dream(**), etc.)
The C levels are more or less academic (be able to do your studies in that language, among other, etc.)

(**) : I kid you not. "Dreams" are mentioned in the official criteria for language.
Though I'm sure, depending on they are high on, some /.ers would require languages which have not be invented yet, just to describe what went through during their dreams.

Re:Liberals to the rescue!

[jedidiah]

The biggest problem with liberalism is liberals.

That would be people that are driven by what "feels right" versus what "makes sense". They will happily ignore important legal principles that protect us from tyranny so long as they happen to be getting their way. They give no thought to the future or potential consequences.

They only fixate on getting the free rainbow unicorn. They give no consideration to how much the stable fees will be.

Modern liberals also have also abandoned classical liberal values. They deserve scorn an derision just for that.