Nintendo Switch Owners Complain About Dead Pixels, Nintendo Says They're 'Normal' (theguardian.com)

Nintendo says the dead or stuck pixels Switch owners are complaining about are "normal" and not defects. "New Switch players have taken to online discussion boards, including a 2,000-comment strong Reddit post, to complain of screen issues distracting play, unbecoming of a $300 handheld gaming machine," reports The Guardian. From the report: In a support document entitled "There are black or bright dots on the Nintendo Switch screen that do not go away, or there are dark or light patches on the screen," Nintendo said: "Small numbers of stuck or dead pixels are a characteristic of LCD screens. These are normal and should not be considered a defect." Customers wishing to swap their Switch consoles with defective screens will get no support from Nintendo. A similar issue happened with the Nintendo DS at launch in the U.S., but the Japanese gaming company eventually relented after complaints from buyers, begrudgingly offering replacements under warranty. Nintendo also warned users that using the Switch near an aquarium or within a meter of another wireless device, including laptops, wireless headsets, wireless printers, microwaves, cordless phones or even USB-3.0 compatible devices "such as hard drives, thumb drives, LAN adapters, etc," might cause the Joy-Con controllers to disconnect from the Switch.

Comments

You do realize...

[gweilo8888]

...that Nintendo doesn't have to accept the lowest bid if it doesn't think a good job will be done, right? The buck stops with Nintendo, not the factory they contracted construction out to. The factory will happily take whatever quality control measures Nintendo deems necessary, so long as they're paid enough.

Re:You do realize...

[gweilo8888]

Sorry, but no. It's not that hard to get quality products out of China *if you're willing to pay the cost*. I know, because I've owned many high-quality products made in China which outlasted the utility of their design long before the hardware failed. Chances are that you have too, whether or not you were conscious of it. I know it's fashionable to shout "China means low quality", but the fact of the matter is that for a company the size of Nintendo, China only means low quality if you want it to. Odds are that Nintendo has made a conscious decision to lower its in-house quality standards and thereby increase the yields / reduce the costs for the LCD panels used in the Switch. It is that simple.

Re:You do realize...

[Austerity Empowers]

I enumerated what those costs were...babysitting the sweatshop and making sure they couldn't cut corners, being there when things go wrong and putting them right, doing post assy quality control and having the arrangements necessary to force quality issues back on the factory. It's easy to argue your way out of needing to pay for the babysitters, why should you have to pay your own people what you are paying someone else to be doing, particularly when that company's salesman is telling you all the great things they will do for you, and selling your boss on how much you will save doing business with them.

But you can't listen to that, you have to build this into the cost of the bid and ignore them. Many, many companies, particularly of the variety where wall st. is more directly involved with management, have a hard time doing this.

Re:You do realize...

[AmiMoJo]

Humans don't do this kind of work in a mass produced product like the Switch. Like PCB inspection, it's done with machine vision. The device displays a test image, a camera takes a photo and a computer scans it for defective pixels. The manufacturer configures the maximum number of acceptable dead pixels in the software.

We long ago reached the point where machine vision was cheap enough to make it more economical than having a human do the job, both in terms of time taken per test and reduction of mistakes.

Re:You do realize...

[Wootery]

I'm just not sure their finances are able to support a first rate hand held device

That makes no sense. I don't care what state your finances are in, it's never in your financial interest to make crap and anger your customer base. This is especially true of Nintendo: their reputation for hardware quality is pretty damn good.

Re:You do realize...

[stealth_finger]

The manufacturer configures the maximum number of acceptable dead pixels in the software.

For a premium machine from a company like nintendo that number should be 0

Re:You do realize...

[TheRaven64]

It's not just cheap labour, it's also often weaker pollution regulation. Dumping the waste from your factory in the local river can dramatically cut the cost of production compared with having to collect and process the same waste. That's been almost as big a driver for moving production to China, India, Africa, and so on as the cheaper labour. It's now harder in China, as they're starting to tighten up pollution laws and have executed a couple of officials for taking bribes to overlook polluting factories.

Re:You do realize...

[Registered Coward v2]

Sorry, but no. It's not that hard to get quality products out of China *if you're willing to pay the cost*. I know, because I've owned many high-quality products made in China which outlasted the utility of their design long before the hardware failed. Chances are that you have too, whether or not you were conscious of it. I know it's fashionable to shout "China means low quality", but the fact of the matter is that for a company the size of Nintendo, China only means low quality if you want it to. Odds are that Nintendo has made a conscious decision to lower its in-house quality standards and thereby increase the yields / reduce the costs for the LCD panels used in the Switch. It is that simple.

Exactly. They will manufacturer to whatever standards yo want to pay for and will enforce. One challenge is convincing the factory quality is more important than meeting an arbitrary delivery date; otherwise they will cut corners to deliver on time.

Re:You do realize...

[stealth_finger]

Nintendo switch price £279.99
Xbox One price £199.95
PS4 price £169.99

Yeah. I'd say its premium, and thats before you get into the silliness of the pad situation.

Well, premium in price anyway, quality is questionable.

Dead pixels? Really?

[ZorinLynx]

Sounds like Nintendo's buying up all those panels that didn't pass muster for other companies' standards. Pretty cheap of them, considering the price of the unit.

I haven't seen a dead pixel on a screen in years. I can't believe Nintendo would stoop so low to essentially buying up rejects to save a couple bucks per unit.

Re:Dead pixels? Really?

[cheesybagel]

Nintendo's always been known for cheap hardware. So I can't figure out why this is surprising...

Re:Dead pixels? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to show you some capacitors out of my SNES. Bottom of the barrel quality.

Or how they left out a capacitor on the power inverter and that's why many SNES's have white bars in the middle.

Or why they chose underpowered hardware on the SNES to the point where addon chips were put on SNES carts.

Or how they were about to join forces with Sony to make the SNES Playstation but turned on Sony at the last minute and went with junk Phillips hardware.

Re:Dead pixels? Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. In electrical engineering terms Nintendo are very well known for using the worst components available because they focus on price above known quality. Adding $0.05 to a power board to avoid the Chinese cap' cancer is something they will not do. They don't even have a standard set of components.for product lines. If a supplier offers something equivalent but cheaper, they'll rip off their hands to make more money despite knowing the likely quality problems.

Re:Dead pixels? Really?

[kronix1986]

Dead/stuck pixels on a modern consumer display aren't deal-breaking - you probably won't notice a stuck pixel in a 1920x1080 5" phone display.

The problem is Nintendo specified the Switch with a 6.2" 720p LCD - literally tech from 2012 - which should by all accounts have a mature manufacturing process by now.

As someone else said, it looks like Nintendo is buying up B-grade panels for the Switch. Imagine the uproar if Samsung or Apple shipped noticeable dead pixels as standard...

Dead pixels normal... in 2001.

[Mal-2]

I didn't plan to buy one anyhow, but this is proof positive that Nintendo still has the sense of entitlement leading them to say "you'll take what we give you, and you'll like it". Getting rid of region locks might have been seen as a step to hand some control back to the customer, but refusing to accept that dead pixels are defects and have been considered such for at least ten years now is an admission that they either can't do better, or are honey badgers about what the customer actually thinks. Unreliable connections are defects too, even Apple wasn't able to get away with the "you're holding it wrong" defense for very long.

If they can't do better for technical reasons... well I'm not buying that. They can do better, because other device manufacturers are doing better. If they can't afford to do better, then they really should get out of the hardware market.

Re: Dead pixels normal... in 2001.

[sg_oneill]

Depends where they are. In Australia claiming you can't get a refund for dead pixels is not only NOT covering their ass , but the ACCC issues silly money fines well North of a mil for failing to inform users of their right to a repair refund or replacement.

Re:Dead pixels normal... in 2001.

[RogueyWon]

I bought a Switch at launch, more out of curiousity than anything else. The story of the platform across the board is "handful of nice ideas let down by corner-cutting and failure to comprehend basic design lessons".

I haven't personally experienced the most serious issues with the device. That's to say, I have no dead pixels. I do not, under normal circumstances, have the wireless interference problems that is causing the joycons (particularly the left one) to lose synchronisation (though I can replicate them if I try, by switching on more devices). Nor have I yet scratched the screen putting the thing into and out of its dock.

That said, there are some design decisions around the Switch that scream "cheap", some which scream "incompetent" and some which scream both. For a relatively pricey piece of hardware, that's not really acceptable. Let's leave aside for the moment the crap Bluetooth transmission from the joycons and the dead pixels; here are some of the smaller quality-of-life issues with the Switch that should not be an issue in 2017:

- The size of the joycon controllers is way too small for the average Western hand (and certainly for a good proportion of adult males). The shape of the thing provides relatively little support to the hand and, whether it is held on its own or in the grip, encourages a cramped hand posture. This is really, really bad for your hands.

- When the unit is used in handheld mode with the joycons attached, the impacts on hand posture are arguably even worse. The device is reasonably large and, while I wouldn't describe it as heavy, nor is it particularly light. Your hands are supporting a noticeable degree of weight here. But the design of the joycons and the manner in which they attach to the main unit means that you end up crabbing your hands if you want to both hold the unit up and reach the control inputs. Unlike the Wii-U Gamepad and the Vita (both of which were by no means perfect in this respect), there is no grip at the back to allow you to distribute some of the weight more evenly around your hands or improve hand posture. It's worst for your right hand, where the location of the right analogue stick at the bottom of the unit means that you are essentially going to end up holding up that end of the unit by "pinching" it near the bottom.

- The layout of buttons on the joycons is terrible. The + and - buttons are located, for some bizarre reason, "above" the analogue sticks. This means you need a large thumb movement to reach them, which is both uncomfortable and likely to result in an accidental button-press or analogue stick input.

- The charging point's location on the bottom of the main unit means that it is awkward to support the weight of the unit on a table while using it in handheld mode. It also means you can't charge it while using the built-in stand.

- The built-in stand is a cheap, nasty and fragile plastic flap, barely capable of staying upright. Many people are already reporting this has snapped off or failed.

- The cartridge slot cover feels flimsy and fragile. I haven't yet seen reports of these snapping off, but I wouldn't be surprised to. The Vita had the same problem here.

- The dock unit you use to connect the thing to the TV has a cheap and nasty plastic feel. There are numerous reports that the version of the dock shipped with retail units is lower than that which was seen on preview units used for demonstrations and sent out for review purposes (though I haven't seen a preview unit myself yet, so cannot confirm this). Certainly, it is a loose and wobbly fit for the console on retail units and there are many reports of the dock scratching the main-unit's screen.

- The process of attaching/detaching the joycons is a bit fiddlier, and requires a bit more force, than had commonly been assumed.

- It is easily possible to put the joycons on the grip unit the wrong way around. What is rather less possible is getting them off again (at least without a very large degree of force) after you've done

Terrible

[Fire_Wraith]

Nintendo really should pay more attention to these sorts of things, as this can be what makes or breaks a device. I was strongly considering getting one, but between these stories, the untransferable/unbackup-able save data, and all that on top of them repeating their inability to grasp how people use online play (Really, friend codes? AGAIN? You can't just let us use handles like everywhere else on the civilized internet?), I'm shifting more to the mindset of "maybe let's wait and see if the version 2.0 is any better."

Re: Terrible

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on the device. You'll notice it a lot more on a 720p screen like the Switch than you would on something like a 4k screen of the same physical dimension that has a much higher dpi.

Dear Mr. Customer

[fred911]

The defects you seem to think exist are a normally engineered design to enhance our users experience. Besides, we don't have sufficient inventory to supply the current demand. As soon as our supply is greater than our customer demand, we may consider some type of compensation. Please keep complaining and we'll contract you in 6 months or so (if you're loud enough).

  Thanks and enjoy your experience!

Well, it depend on pixel density

[Eloking]

Because if the Switch was a stunning 4K (710 PPI for a 6.2" screen), people wouldn't complain much because the pixel are too tiny to be noticeable if they die.

But at 720P (237 PPI), that's a whole different world. It's comparable to the first Samsung Galaxy S with 233 PPI. Even the new iPhone 7 is not "that" far ahead with 326 ppi (well, the Galaxy S7 have over 500 PPI).

Re:Well, it depend on pixel density

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah but the Galaxy explodes.

It's a bold choice

[grasshoppa]

...but maybe the customers are just holding it wrong?

Re:It's a bold choice

[sheramil]

Maybe the customers are looking at it wrong. Try squinting a little. Yeah.. more.. squint a little more.. just a little more.. okay, close your eyes completely.

Perfect.

Re:It's a bold choice

[Opportunist]

Great. Now ALL pixels are dead.

Manufacturing tolerances

[neovoxx]

This is nothing new. Every manufacturer has a note about the number and/or type of acceptable dead/bright pixels on an LCD though they vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. In some cases, a display can have dozens of dead pixels as long as they aren't clustered together, where others will allow several dead pixels but no bright pixels.

This is nothing new and has been Nintendo's policy ever since the Gameboy Advance was released. But, if you're nice when you call support, you may be able to get it replaced, or of course, you could just swap the unit at the store. The same goes for any other LCD you buy.

Of course they are normal..,.

[mark-t]

... on an older screen or one that has been abused. On a new device? Not so much. The only reason that anyone's going to take Nintendo's explanation lying down is because trying to stand up to Nintendo on this point is going to take a ton of perseverance, time, and probably money with no assurance that it's actually going to work out.

Bait... and Switch?

[CanEHdian]

It's to be expected that for the first batch, QA standards aren't too stringent, as they need numbers, numbers, numbers, to get 3rd party buy-in. Early PSPs had some stuck pixels, but later ones were fine. None of my VITAs have stuck/dead pixels.

I was planning to wait for the Mario Bundle, I'm guessing with a Mario-Red and Luigi-Green joycon, as here in Canada the Switch debuts at $400 and there's not even a pack-in game included. Yeah, that's $400 CAD and it also proves that a low CAD vs USD might be 'good for the economy' but it's bad for consumers (e.g. you and me). Hopefully by that that time the Canadian Dollar regained some of its value.

Can't be as bad as original Gameboy

[Anonymous Coward]

I did repair work at Nintendo when the original gameboy came out. All day long people would show up to get screen issues fixed and many of the came right back without even leaving the parking lot before it went bad again.Being an early adopter of Nintendo gear has never been a good idea.

Not in 2017

[MBGMorden]

I remember WAY back in the early 2000's when LCD flat panels first started getting cheap enough for the average consumer (I bought my first as a 17" for $300 back around 2001) it was common for there to be at least 1 dead pixel - and they generally wouldn't consider it a warranty item unless there were more than 10 or more than 2 within a few cm of each other.

That is pretty much of thing of the past now though. In the last ~7 years I can't recall having a single display with a dead pixel, and in today's age I certainly would return a display (or device) that had one.

Re:Not in 2017

[Shimbo]

You should ALWAYS have returned it as defective, regardless of what the manufacturer reckons; depending on your local consumer protection laws, of course.

You would never expect to roll a new car off the lot with a flat tyre. Why would you expect a screen to be ok when the main part is glaringly defective? .

The short answer is there an ISO standard, ISO 13406-2 for LCD displays; pretty much every display is sold as a class II. A guaranteed defect free display (class I) is a premium product. Shops have sold 'seconds', products with minor imperfections since forever.

So, especially back when defects were relatively common, I reckon your case is fairly thin, although jurisdictions will vary. Now, when expectations are higher, maybe that's changed.

Re:Not in 2017

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, in no country with sane consumer protection laws do consumers have to be aware of ISO standards in order to make an informed buying decision - referring to ISO standards to justify defects in consumer products is just insane.
I looked it up and I see that German courts essentially upheld that some pixels being defective wouldbe acceptable HOWEVER even that is just an interpretation of what "suitable for normal use" means, a blindingly bright dot in the middle of a HDR TV still makes the product not suitable for its intended purpose, even if it's only 1 subpixel. The courts also ruled that in contrast a single defective pixel in a camera sensor is NOT ok, at least not if the software can't remove it (and even if it's unable to remove it only in video mode).

Dead Pixel normal in 2017

[Anonymous Coward]

Here's Dells dead pixel policy for 2017. So basically Dell will ignore 5 dead dark pixels before you can get a replacement.

Flat panel monitors with Premium Panel Guarantee (HD+ (1600 x 900) and above LCD resolutions):
        1 or more 6 or more
        Bright = 1 or more
        Dark = 6 or more
Dell monitors (D Series) 6 or more 9 or more Combination of bright and dark = 9 or more
All other Dell flat panel monitors 6 or more 6 or more Combination of bright and dark = 6 or more
Dell Laptop LCD screen with standard panel (HD (1366 x 768) or below resolutions):
        Dell Inspiron laptops 3 or more 6 or more Combination of bright and dark = 6 or more
Dell Laptop LCD screen with Premium Panel Guarantee (HD+ (1600 x 900) and above LCD resolutions): :

Re:Dead Pixel normal in 2017

[AmiMoJo]

Aren't there any consumer protection laws that can help you in the US?

In the UK we have Distance Selling Regulations. Basically, because buying online you don't have an opportunity to inspect the goods before buying you can return them for any or no reason at all in the first 14 days. If the goods are not otherwise defective you have to pay return postage, so in the case of a few dead pixels you would probably be out a few quid on that. but you can save some weight be discarding extraneous packaging.

It's actually better to buy stuff online than from a physical shop for this reason.

Dead pixels are normal.

[BigBuckHunter]

Nintendo has it half right

Dead pixels ARE normal.... Fortunately, so is the replacing of affected devices under warranty.

Re:Reduced Expectations

[gl4ss]

If I went to the local tech mall and bought 100 tablets, I could take 100 tablets and none of them would have any dead pixels.

thats why people are complaining. it's not usual nowadays. if you have such a policy that you need x amount of them to be bad for it to be a defect, put it on the box.

or just try the device before buying, thats what people do in asia - in the west you just assume it works.

Ey for an ey

[Tablizer]

Just pay them with a check having a dead digit in the bank account number.

Re:Dead pixels in Aus

[anomaly256]

Can confirm I've fought manufacturers on their 'dead pixel policies' before in Oz and won, with the help of the ACCC. Basically a defect is 'Anything that would prevent the consumer from buying one instance of a product over another instance of the same product if they knew about it in advance', and dead pixels are considered defects by this definition, and manufacturers can't refuse replacement on defective products, period. The '7 day' or '30 day' policies are also not enforceable, if you get dead pixels 9 months down the road they still have to fix or replace. Even if it's 1 dead pixel. Nintendo will not be able to enforce this policy here, though it might be quite time consuming and tedious to make them comply. (nb: I am not a lawyer but I've been in this boat before)

Re: Reduced Expectations

[Fwipp]

No, the answer is none because CRT displays don't work that way.

Re:quality control...

[Anonymous Coward]

Made in Japan .... at our facilities in China.

WELL KNOWN FACT: Nintendo consoles are built by Foxconn.

Not dead, just resting.

[fahrbot-bot]

No, no the pixels are not dead, they're just resting. Remarkable pixels on the Nintendo Switch. Beautiful plumage!

Try before you buy.

[psy]

In Australia this is classed as a defect which is defined as "something that would have caused you not to buy the product if you knew beforehand".

The other option is to go in store and ask that they open and test multiple Switches until you find one free of dead pixels.

Normality

[WaffleMonster]

Hey Nintendo? You know what else is normal? Lost sales from well deserved bad press.

Re:It's not a dead pixel

[dmesg0]

... I guess sort of like bad sectors are a characteristic of disk drives ...

Each hard drive has bad sectors detected during the QA testing and permanently stored in drives primary defects list (PLIST) table. The visible reallocations that start from 0 and reported by S.M.A.R.T are grown defects list (GLIST), not existing during the manufacturing. So yes, bad sectors are sort of a characteristic of disk drives.

Re:quality control...

[stealth_finger]

Made in Japan .... at our facilities in China.

Just like the iPhone, then.

The best bit on the xbox, in the battery compartment on the pad and back of the console it says "hello from seattle" about half an inch from where it says "made in china"

Re:It's not a dead pixel

[stealth_finger]

... I guess sort of like bad sectors are a characteristic of disk drives ...

Each hard drive has bad sectors detected during the QA testing and permanently stored in drives primary defects list (PLIST) table. The visible reallocations that start from 0 and reported by S.M.A.R.T are grown defects list (GLIST), not existing during the manufacturing. So yes, bad sectors are sort of a characteristic of disk drives.

But in that sense they get hidden and the user is never aware rather than them going "nah, you can't save that properly, bad sector innit, that's just how they work now pay up and fuck off"