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Seattle Tech Engineers Are More Loyal Than Those in San Francisco, Data Shows (geekwire.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Software engineers in Seattle stay at companies an average of six months longer than do their counterparts in San Francisco, according to data from online job search giant Indeed. That may seem like a small difference, but it's actually quite significant when compared to the total time engineers tend to stay with a company. In Seattle, they average 29 months while San Francisco devs stick around for about 23 months. Doug Gray, Indeed's senior vice president of engineering, shared that finding along with other statistics during an event on attracting tech talent, hosted by the Seattle Chamber of Commerce on Thursday morning. "That is another thing that we should be promoting here in Seattle, is that greater loyalty, which leads to the ability for someone to have an impact in their company, for them to actually have greater career development within that company," said Gray.Also see: Scraping By On Six Figures? Tech Workers Feel Poor in Silicon Valley's Wealth Bubble
And if you live in a small village you'll probably stay int he same job for life. Doesn't mean you're more loyal, it just means you've got fewer choices.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Damn, I've been in this job for 23 YEARS. Guess I'm just not the job-hopping type. Interviewing sucks.
Companies have no loyalty to the employees. Why should employees give them any loyalty?
I suspect this says more about San Francisco than about Seattle. Throw some other cities in there.
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
A few years ago I ran into a former coworker during a job interview and turned down the job offer. I would be making more money as a contractor than my former coworker did from collecting 2% raises for nine years. The last thing I need is a bitter coworker.
"...stay at companies an average of six months longer...greater loyalty, which leads to the ability for someone to have an impact in their company, for them to actually have greater career development within that company..."
Greater impact my ass. 6 additional months isn't going to define career development or impact the company in some grandiose way.
People used to stay at companies for far longer than the 29 months being celebrated here. The turnover rate today is a joke. Then again, so is the fact that employees are no longer treated like people, but instead like commodity resources that can be exchanged as the wind blows.
I don't know your job title, but as a technical person, if I didn't change jobs, I would never get a raise. (2% is not a raise, it's not even COLA, and that's the raise a programmer gets if he stays.) Aren't you curious how people at other companies do things?
Where I work the average IT person stays 5 to 8 years. Most of my co-workers are 15 year vets. I can't imagine how crappy these places must be if the average is only two years. Hell it can take a year just to get someone comfortable int he environment.
Perhaps this entire difference could be explained by the rate of workers leaving these cities, which is in turn mostly caused by cost of living issues? San Francisco, and the Bay Area generally, is ferociously expensive. And that effect is magnified once one reaches the age of having children.
Plenty of choices does not equate to the number of companies in Silicon Valley. So it's simple mathematics. Good people are constantly being courted by other companies. It is not just the big companies here, it's many tens of thousands of small companies covering San Jose to San Francisco and Oakland..
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
I think only a fool doesn't meter out raises that match inflation at a minimum... Unless you are looking to reduce your labor force through attrition.
Further, companies that don't dish out more than average salaries for their best employees, are NOT watching their bottom line in the long term but are making the often repeated mistake I call "Manage to quarter". This is where the share price at the end of THIS quarter is all that matters, nobody is thinking about next quarter or the one after. This is common among struggling companies with cash flow issues.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Duh
the tech companies to the employees? Do they kick you to the curb when the stock drops $2? When you hit your 35th or 40th birthday? Do they collude with other companies to limit your pay and benefits? Will they hire you if your skin is brown? If you are female?
We keep seeing reports on things like worker loyalty but why don't we see the same on company to employee loyalty?
"Software engineers in Seattle stay at companies an average of six months longer than do their counterparts in San Francisco"
Six whole months, well I'll be gobsmacked. I've spent longer than that fucking up a single document.
Good lord, do they swear an oath of fealty to display such unwavering allegiance and faithfulness?
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Decent women sounds like a boring way to live. I prefer indecent.
But seriously, most technical types such as engineers, scientists, etc are quite satisfied with a quiet evening with their SO or watching their favorite TV show or seeing a movie.
The hiking around both Silicon Valley and Seattle is quite good. You can be in a big city, but a short drive to hills and mountains and nature. So for me there is plenty to do that I enjoy. If you like staying out all night clubbing (is that a "social life" ?), then it's not for you, It feels like SF and SJ both go dark at 10pm. (I can't comment on Seattle, I've never checked out the nightlife there)
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
a PHB always looks for an excuse to pay you less.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Even 29 months seems quite short. How much is the median project time to market?
I'm a San Francisco Engineer who is just about to celebrate 15 years at my current job with a major tech company. Prior to this I was at a small tech company for nine years. On the other hand, I'm OLD and would hate to look for work right now, regardless of my resume or contacts.
People used to stay at companies for far longer than the 29 months being celebrated here. The turnover rate today is a joke. Then again, so is the fact that employees are no longer treated like people, but instead like commodity resources that can be exchanged as the wind blows.
After decades of work at a fair number of places I've discovered there are companies who offer jobs (employee=commodity), and some who offer careers (employee=person). Interestingly I landed at one of those Top 50 To Work For companies and never really want to leave as long as the culture remains high on value of the employee. Previously I'd never considered looking at lists like that for where to go but if I ever left here that's where I'd start.
They left out a critical detail: is this by the employee's choice or the company's? Are they less likely to choose to leave, or less likely to get laid off? If it's the employee's choice, is it because people like their jobs better, or because they have fewer other options?
Without knowing that, I can't tell if this makes Seattle a better or worse place to work. Not getting laid off is good. Liking your job is good. Having few options is bad. In any case, I doubt it has much to do with loyalty.
"I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
Part of the turnover rate is that -- at least in the Silly Valley -- longevity is viewed as a FLAW. I had been at a non-SV company for >15 years, via two acquisitions, and when looking for a new job EVERYONE harassed me about that. When I recast my rez to make it look like 3 jobs, that stopped and I got hired.
Amazon: Worse than Wal-Mart: Amazon's sick brutality and secret history of ruthlessly intimidating workers (February 23, 2014)
... CenturyLink (CTL) customers trying to access particular sites from 9 p.m. to 10 p.m. will have unbearably slow speeds."
Amazon: Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace (August 15, 2015) Quote: "The company is conducting an experiment in how far it can push white-collar workers..."
Amazon: Amazon Under Fire Over Alleged Worker Abuse in Germany (February 19, 2013)
Microsoft: Microsoft Is Filled With Abusive Managers And Overworked Employees, Says Tell-All Book (May 23, 2012)
Seattle: Together with Microsoft and bad city management, Seattle is a miserable place:
Traffic: Seattle one of the worst U.S. cities for traffic congestion, tied with NYC (March 31, 2015) Quote: "An additional 23 minutes a day spent in traffic may not sound like much, but when it adds up over a year it becomes 89 hours." (Whoever wrote that must be accustomed to Seattle misery. An additional 23 minutes a day spent in traffic sounds HORRIBLE.)
Slow internet: Many areas of Seattle have poor internet connections. See the article, These places have the slowest Internet in the country. (June 25, 2015) Quote: "... Seattle