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T-Mobile Raises Deprioritization Threshold To 30GB (tmonews.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from TmoNews: T-Mobile's new deprioritization threshold is 30GB of usage in a single billing cycle. While T-Mo didn't make an official announcement about the change, you can see in this cached page that the network management policy says 28GB: "Based on network statistics for the most recent quarter, customers who use more than 28GB of data during a billing cycle will have their data usage prioritized below other customers' data usage for the remainder of the billing cycle in times and at locations where there are competing customer demands for network resources." Navigating to the webpage today now says 30GB. What this change means is that if you use more than 30GB of data in one billing cycle, your data usage will be prioritized below others for the remainder of that billing cycle. The only time that you're likely to see the effects of that, though, is when you're at a location on the network that is congested, during which time you may see slower speeds. Once you move to a different location or the congestion goes down, your speeds will likely go back up. And once the new billing cycle rolls around, your usage will be reset.

60 comments

  1. American Communism Making of Women's Liberation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Feminism/american_communism_and_feminism.htm

    (Reader's Note: This summer I am revising and reprising important articles that predate my web site.)

    "Rape is an expression of ... male supremacy ... the age-old economic, political and cultural exploitation of women by men."

    Does this sound like a modern radical feminist? Guess again. It is from a 1948 American Communist Party pamphlet entitled "Woman Against Myth" by Mary Inman.

    In a recent book, Red Feminism: American Communism and the Making of Women's Liberation, (2002) feminist historian Kate Weigand states: "ideas, activists and traditions that emanated from the Communist movement of the forties and fifties continued to shape the direction of the new women's movement of the 1960s and later."(154)

    In fact, Weigand, a lecturer at Smith College, shows that modern feminism is a direct outgrowth of American Communism. There is nothing that feminists said or did in the 1960's-1980's that wasn't prefigured in the CPUSA of the 1940's and 1950's. Many second-wave feminist leaders were "red diaper babies," the children of Communists.

    Communists pioneered the political and cultural analysis of woman's oppression. They originated women's studies, and advocated public daycare, birth control, abortion and even children's rights. They forged key feminist concepts such as "the personal is the political" and techniques such as "consciousness raising."

    In the late 1940's, CPUSA leaders realized that the labor movement was becoming increasingly hostile to Communism. They began to focus on women and African Americans. They hoped "male supremacy" would "bring more women into the organization and into the fight against the domestic policies of the Cold War." (80)

    Communist women who made up 40% of the party wanted more freedom to attend party meetings. After the publication of "Women Against Myth" in 1948, the CPUSA initiated a process of "re-educating" men that we recognize only too well today.

    For example, in the party newspaper "The Daily Worker" a photo caption of a man with a young child read, "Families are stronger and happier if the father knows how to fix the cereal, tie the bibs and take care of the youngsters." (127)

    The Party ordered men who didn't take the woman question seriously to complete "control tasks involving study on the woman question." In 1954 the Los Angeles branch disciplined men for "hogging discussion at club meetings, bypassing women comrades in leadership and making sex jokes degrading to women." (94)

    A film Salt of the Earth, which critic Pauline Kael called "Communist propaganda", portrayed women taking a decisive role in their husbands' labor strike. "Against her husband's wishes, Esperanza became a leader in the strike and for the first time forged a role for herself outside of her household... [her] political successes persuaded Ramon to accept a new model of family life." (132) Portrayals of strong assertive successful women became as common in the Communist press and schools, as they are in the mass media today.

    Communist women formalized a sophisticated Marxist analysis of the "woman question." The books In Women's Defense (1940) by Mary Inman, Century of Struggle (1954) by Eleanor Flexner and The Unfinished Revolution (1962) by Eve Merriam recorded women's oppression and decried sexism in mass culture and language. For example, Mary Inman argued that "manufactured femininity" and "overemphasis on beauty" keeps women in subjection (33).

    The founder of modern feminism, Betty Frieden relied on these texts when she wrote The Feminine Mystique (1963). These women all hid the fact that they were long-time Communist activists. In the 1960, their daughters had everything they needed, including the example of subterfuge, to start the Women's Liberation Movement.

    Feminism's roots in Marxist Communism explain a great deal about this curious but dangerous movement. It explains:

  2. Re: American Communism Making of Women's Liberatio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    this sells feminism to me pretty well

  3. March, 2017: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    March, 2017: Still falling for the 'smartphone' meme. Seriously are you people dumb?
    * Getting price-gouged for so-called 'dataplans'
    * Totally insecure smartphone OS
    * Totally insecure smartphone browsers
    * Criminals and government agencies hacking into your smartphone at will, sucking up your data, surveilling your life
    * 'Apps' that not only waste your time, but violate your privacy
    * Wasting your time and energy on so-called 'social media' (which is neither 'social' nor proper 'media' in the first place)

    When are you people going to WAKE THE HELL UP and just throw the goddamned thing in the e-waste bin and say 'enough'? Get a cheap dumbphone, don't pay for 'dataplans', and simplify your life! Reduce your stress! Say 'goodbye' to retarded 'social media' and it's useless pointless drama! Get back to the basics of life -- you'll enjoy your life MORE if you do!

    1. Re:March, 2017: by bobbied · · Score: -1

      You need to put the tinfoil hat back on, relax and take your medication... Remember, breathe in thought mouth and out though the nose...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:March, 2017: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Hey faggot, why don't you just admit that you'd cry and throw a fit if you couldn't check your goddamned Facebook account every 5 minutes, or play your little twitch games while you're in the can taking a dump, trying to avoid your boss? Oh and by the way every single thing I had to say is verifiable in legitimate news stories that ANYONE can go research, and there are more of them every goddamned day. So stop avoiding the question: Why are you being so dumb and continuing to use a so-called 'smartphone'? Don't embarass yourself further by attempting to insult me more.

    3. Re:March, 2017: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Ura total f@g too! Nigga!

  4. Found the LUDDITE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ONLY apps can app apps, NOT LUDDITE dumbphones!
    It sounds like you're too stupid to use appy app apps like Appy App Saga and Appstragram, so you have to make up LUDDITE lies instead!
    Apps!

    1. Re:Found the LUDDITE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Old and busted: Sexconker and his lame-ass 'app' forced meme
      New hotness: Outing Sexconker as sucking an entire box of cocks daily

    2. Re:Found the LUDDITE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Old and busted: Sexconker and his lame-ass 'app' forced meme
        New hotness: Outing Sexconker as sucking an entire box of cocks daily

      Wait a damned second ... ... ... you can buy cocks by the BOX?! WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?!?! Seriously man, I'm feeling like I really missed out!

  5. Remember when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    /. had news that matters? More science and less corporate plugs please.

    1. Re:Remember when... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Hey, got to make money somehow... But you are right, it makes it hard for the ad blocking software to catch them...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Remember when... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

      Remember when Slashdot had news that mattered?

      Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:Remember when... by sabri · · Score: 1

      But you are right, it makes it hard for the ad blocking software to catch them...

      Well, what really annoys me is the amount of ##.col${RANDOM}.scw-horizontal.stackcommerce-widget entries I have in my adblock filters now.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    4. Re:Remember when... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember when Slashdot had news that mattered?

      Pepperidge Farm Remembers.

      Yes, I, too have seen that episode of Family Guy. Unlike you, however, I quickly got over it, viewing it as mere entertainment. I see it has an ... enhanced significance for you, due to some personal inadequacy of yours. Small penis, perhaps?

  6. Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitless" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Limitless means "No Limits".

    It does not mean, after you've used some arbitrary number that we select, we will limit you.

    Slowing or deprioritizing packets is indeed *LIMITING*.

    Super simple FTC actionable advertising by all companies that "limit" their "unlimited" plans.

  7. What does this matter. by hackwrench · · Score: 2

    Most plans lower you to 2G speeds well below that.

    1. Re:What does this matter. by geek · · Score: 1

      Most plans lower you to 2G speeds well below that.

      T-Mobile lowers you to 4G speeds. I know reading is hard but FFS why comment if you don't have a fucking clue?

    2. Re:What does this matter. by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      And you know this because you read the article... How about actually having an account? I had an account with MetroPCS, an alterego of T-Mobile, and I did run out of the amount they give you. I recently switched because their customer service is lousy. Now maybe T-Mobile branded accounts are different, but let me get back to you on that further on in the post
      And what is reduce you to 4G supposed to mean? There is no speed higher than 4G except for some companies playing with so-called 5G networks.
      Now back to T-Mobile branded accounts: Unless the terms have changed, which they very well may have, all the plans stated in their terms that they lowered the speeds to 2G.
      https://support.t-mobile.com/d...
      Unlimited 4G LTE data on your smartphone.
      Note: Data slows to 2G once your data limit is reached.
      Yes. Still says 2G.

    3. Re:What does this matter. by networkBoy · · Score: 1

      T-Mo branded accounts are different then.
      I get throttled only near busy cells (based on observation such as: at the mall while lots of other people are there).
      Near my house I don't see any throttling at all.

      While I'm being throttled my phone is still reporting LTE, but I am seeing speeds drop to about 40-70% of normal.

      --
      whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
    4. Re:What does this matter. by schnell · · Score: 1

      I get throttled only near busy cells (based on observation such as: at the mall while lots of other people are there).

      That's not throttling. That's T-Mobile's network getting slammed.

      Throttling is the deliberate, policy-based use of the network to constrain a user's throughput lower than default "best effort" settings. Traditionally this was done by forcing the user from a higher data rate technology to a lower one, such as bumping a user off the LTE network and onto 3G (HSPA/CDMA), or from a 3G network onto 2G (EDGE/1xRTT). More advanced networks can now do this by using LTE Quality of Service features to 1.) set a maximum bit rate for the user's default data EPS bearer or 2.) lower the user's ARP and QCI values so that they have a lower-than-best-effort priority for resources and in the network scheduler.

      If you're getting lower throughput at busy cells, that isn't throttling, that's... the network being busy. If it happens every once in a while, that's an abnormal network load and to be expected. If it's happening all the time, your carrier either has its spectrum exhausted in the area, or sucks at network planning (constraints in backhaul, coverage densification, etc.). Or neither and they are just cheap.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
  8. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your traffic might go from 25MB/s down to 22.8MB/s. They aren't blocking traffic, they aren't stopping your traffic. They are just making it so that others have a fair share. Compared to all the other operators, they are doing it right.

  9. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Limitless data does not mean limitless data to the detriment of other people.

    Even if they slow you down, they're still not limiting the amount of data that you can download.

    Don't ever come to Canada, where they charge you $5 per gig over your already expensive 1/2/5/10GB data plan.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  10. Why a threshold? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Why not just prioritize all traffic by previous traffic used per billing cycle? So light users generally get top prioritization and heavy users get gradually lower prioritization but nobody has to pick a number where it suddenly switches form one category to another.

    --
    -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
    "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    1. Re:Why a threshold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While not a bad idea, I don't think it would be as "consumer friendly". I know I'd never watch videos or do anything too heavy if I knew I was slowly effecting my data rate for the rest of the month. The idea of "unlimited data" is to give people some more freedom from usage. Another option might be to have 2-3 tiers of usage. 0-10 gigs is the best, once you're int the 10-30 range it drops a bit, then 30+ gigs and it tapers off more.

    2. Re:Why a threshold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know I'd never watch videos or do anything too heavy if I knew I was slowly affecting my data rate for the rest of the month.

      So why haven't the carriers tried that? Sounds like a win for them.

      But what do I know? My $10/month cell phone service is 100 talk/text minutes and 50 MB of data.
      I don't use mobile data to watch Netflix or look at advertising.

    3. Re:Why a threshold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We don't care about your third world poverty plan.

    4. Re:Why a threshold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      My wife and I lost interest in television back in the 90s some time. We threw a tablecloth over our television and started using it as an endtable. Eventually, we forgot it was even a television! I lifted the tablecloth one day and chuckled when I saw the screen... it had just been so long. With all the free time we gained from not watching television, we've been able to improve our lives in many ways. For one thing, we learned that a lot of our so-called "friends" were so addicted to the "boob tube" that we stopped hanging out with them because all they ever wanted to do or talk about was TV... and whenever we gently suggested "unplugging" to them, it would just upset them. So now, we enjoy our cats, the great outdoors, we volunteer for community service like our HOA board and neighborhood watch, and work on improving our lives and the lives of others around us. Some people just need a little persistent pressure to improve themselves!

    5. Re:Why a threshold? by silverkniveshotmail. · · Score: 2

      If this wasn't so boring I'd guess it was copypasta.

    6. Re:Why a threshold? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      Why three tiers? If fewer is better, why not two, or just one? If more is better, why not ten, or a hundred, or a thousand... which in the limit becomes what I was suggesting.

      Unless someone can give a reason why some particular arbitrary number of tiers is best, it seems the obvious default is either no tiers (which is to say, one tier, everyone gets equal priority) or continuous ranking of prioritization like I suggested.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    7. Re:Why a threshold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you weren't so fucking stupid I'd swear you were a troll.

    8. Re:Why a threshold? by j-beda · · Score: 1

      Why not just prioritize all traffic by previous traffic used per billing cycle? So light users generally get top prioritization and heavy users get gradually lower prioritization but nobody has to pick a number where it suddenly switches form one category to another.

      I was thinking the same thing. When there is no congestion, everyone gets top speed, otherwise priotiize the lightest users. Heck - the light users probably won't make much of a dent in available bandwidth anyway.

    9. Re:Why a threshold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are probably lots of even better continuous-style formulas they could use. For example, look over the last k days, rather than tying it to a billing cycle. And also, rather than caring how much data was used, weight that data by how congested the network was at the time you were using it (so you are not penalized if you happened to use a ton of data on an otherwise-idle network).

      However, they probably see it as beneficial to have a simple rule that the customers can understand. It might be harder to trust them if they just said "we prioritize traffic in a way that is fair to everyone and does not depend on the applications using the data." (although this sort of works for Google PageRank and AdSense)

    10. Re:Why a threshold? by Pfhorrest · · Score: 1

      That makes me think of another good reason to do this: since light users won't make much of a dent in available bandwidth, prioritizing them ensures that the largest number of users get full speed for all their usage. Like how if you have many things to do, you can get more of them done sooner by doing the quick ones first.

      --
      -Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
      "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
    11. Re:Why a threshold? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have two hours calls, unlimited text and 50MB data I never used for €2/month.
      First world poverty plan (not the best for homeless and drug addicts though. You need a bank account and they pay themselves on it. Once I had less than two or three euros (with call overages fee), with those dumb nuts taking the money in the second half of the month, and this cost me 25 or 40 euros between the bank's fee and the carrier's punitive fee.

  11. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Don't ever come to Canada, where they charge you $5 per gig over your already expensive 1/2/5/10GB data plan.

    What's funny is - with T-Mobile, you roam for free on Rodgers (I think that's the network). Last year I headed up to Vancouver for a meeting - a minute or two after I crossed the border, I got a text telling me I had the same coverage in Canada as in the US - for free.

    Maybe you should buy service from T-Mobile in the US and then head home...

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  12. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by fred6666 · · Score: 1

    Limitless data does not mean limitless data to the detriment of other people.

    It's to the detriment of others because they do not upgrade their infrastructure enough. It's their problem if they do not upgrade enough to get the bandwidth required to serve their unlimited customers.

  13. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    You know as well as I do that whatever upgrades they do, users like you will use all of it and then complain again.

    You still have unlimited data right now, upgraded infrastructures or not.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  14. Sounds reasonable. by MMC+Monster · · Score: 1

    Just wish they had better coverage around me.

    --
    Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    1. Re:Sounds reasonable. by DewDude · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure where "around me" is; but you may need to check to see if your phone lacks support for one of the bands they use. My area has seen a huge expansion of Band 12 LTE and the coverage has been pretty fantastic; but I also see areas with Band 2 expansion having a notice about having a compatible phone.

  15. A REAL clampdown on anti-social bandwidth usage. by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    I totally misread the headline as a 30GB Deportation Threshold.

  16. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

    Of course there has to be a limit, there is only so much bandwidth available. But, they shouldn't fucking advertise it as limitless when there is actually a limit.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  17. Re:A REAL clampdown on anti-social bandwidth usage by cstacy · · Score: 1

    beat me to it! LOL

  18. Efficiency with 156-bit frames, legacy, simplicity by raymorris · · Score: 1

    GSM data is sent in 156-bit (18 byte) frames, which are then combined into superframes. So anyway the prioritization decision is made every few bytes - millions of times for one video. It needs to be fast, very fast, and a flag indicating "high" or "low" priority is fast - much much faster than computing and comparing a numerical score for each frame to see who is highest, then multiplying the reciprocal of that by time in queue.

    Also, long before T-Mobile started prioritizing based on usage so far in month, network protocols and network equipment was built built with traffic classes, not traffic scores. T-Mobile is using pre-existing functionality. It's arguable which provides a "better" customer experience, so they might as well use the simple, efficient, pre-existing method.

  19. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are just making it so that others have a fair share.

    No. Wrong. They are making it so that others have more of a share than you. That is the very definition of unfair.
    Fair Share means everyone get the same amount of bandwidth split evenly.

    Let's say I use 30 gigs of data on a tower in the middle of nowhere at 3:00AM.
    Then later today, I connect to a tower in the middle of a busy downtown area at 5:00PM.
    My traffic will get throttled, while the rest of the people on that tower (under 30gig) won't. I didn't take anything away from them through my previous usage. I didn't make their connections slower.

    This is pure PR. Nothing more.

  20. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what then, would be your solution to alleviate a congested network?
    You understand that there is a finite amount of spectrum which provides us with a finite amount of bandwidth and if everyone streamed HD youtube all day nobody would get any data at all? You understand that right?

  21. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    bullshit. the limiting factor in cell networks is the wireless spectrum and you can't upgrade nature.

  22. Nope by mrfatmann · · Score: 1

    My Pay as you go $40/ month is still 2Gigs. Rising tide it ain't

  23. Re:Efficiency with 156-bit frames, legacy, simplic by DewDude · · Score: 1

    GSM data is sent in 156-bit (18 byte) frames

    LTE != GSM

  24. So... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    I may not have all the facts, but I certainly have a clue. Something you don't realize when your world comes to consist of what is contained in a single article.

    1. Re:So... by geek · · Score: 1

      I may not have all the facts, but I certainly have a clue. Something you don't realize when your world comes to consist of what is contained in a single article.

      I'm a TMO customer. Nice try troll.

    2. Re:So... by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      That doesn't mean that you didn't narrow your worldview to the scope of the article, the only information you complained I didn't use in making my initial assessment. But what do you make of T-Mobile's own website saying that speeds are limited to 2G?

  25. I 'member by mpercy · · Score: 1

    'Member Chewbacca?

  26. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are just making it so that others have a fair share.

    I didn't take anything away from them through my previous usage. I didn't make their connections slower.

    This is pure PR. Nothing more.

    Yah, I don't buy it. Sure the bits cost less for them at certain times, since more people using them at peak times mean expanding their network. That being said, they hand out a straightforward and no bs contract. That it isn't optimized for your particular use is just life. They choose not to make a plan with non peak usage quotas. Another can make a plan with separate non peak minutes. As long as they are not using their current business to somehow prevent the other guy from selling that plan, then they are fine.

    The only thing I wand with t-mobile is better hotspot only plans. My mother uses one, since it is all she can get, even though she is not far from AT&T DSl. AT&T just hasn't built their network in a couple of decades. If you want to bitch about a provider then AT&T is fair game. They are evil.

    T-mobiles 22GB hotspot only plan is $90. I think if they are giving 30GB to normal users they could ease up on those plans a bit. Maybe make their $90 plan 30GB and raise the other tiers..

    Sadly no one really likes hotspot only users. T-mobile is close, and i think binge on is still working, so you really can't complain too much.

  27. Still, 5ms or 10s by raymorris · · Score: 1

    LTE uses 5ms-10ms frames. So still, that's 100-200 switching decisions per second, per connection.

  28. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by zedaroca · · Score: 1

    if everyone streamed HD youtube all day nobody would get any data at all

    Your math skills are lacking. If everyone did that, everyone would be getting as much as possible from their unlimited plans, that's a lot of data.
    His solution is obvious, split it evenly between all the customers, without penalizing any of them unequally. In order to provide more bandwidth better technology and coverage might be necessary.

  29. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I bet you think that women that talk 10% of the time are stealing all of your limelight too.

    If you hit that limit, you are ALREADY using more than other people. This slows you down a _little_ so that the other people that have NOT yet reached that limit - so, by definition, NOT used more than you, can get a chance to use as much as you.

    Do you understand? You heap big use. Make slow for other people. When you use lots, get little slower to give other people chance.
    Or was that still too complicated for you?

    And no judge on the planet and probably no jury, is going to count this particular scenario as a false advertising claim. Any more than if you tried to launch a class action because their LIMITLESS amount was limited by bandwidth available * time.

  30. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by guyniraxn · · Score: 1

    I have T-Mobile as well and love the free international roaming. I've used it with great success in Asia and Mexico but just last weekend I was in Montreal. I got the same text I always do about free roaming but the entire time I was there I only had voice and SMS service. No data whatsoever.

  31. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by fred6666 · · Score: 1

    Maybe you should buy service from T-Mobile in the US and then head home...

    You must use a majority of your data in the US (over a few months) to use that plan otherwise they may ban you.

  32. Re:Where's the class action lawsuit about "limitle by fred6666 · · Score: 1

    Nobody forces them to offer unlimited plans if they are not able to deliver.

  33. This is just crazy. by NoSalt · · Score: 1

    First companies have a race to see who can screw their customers over the most. Now, they're in a race to see who can give customers the most data. So ... do they want to screw us over or not???