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Munich's IT Lead: 'No Compelling Reason' To Switch Back To Windows From Linux (techrepublic.com)

"The man who runs Munich's central IT says there is no practical reason for the city to write off millions of euros and years of work to ditch its Linux-based OS for Windows," reports TechRepublic. Long-time Slashdot reader Qbertino summarizes a German-language article: Karl-Heinz Schneider, lead of Munich's local system house company IT@M, goes on to claim, "We do not see pressing technical reasons to switch to MS and MS Office... The council [in their recent plans] didn't even follow the analysts' suggestion to stick with using LibreOffice." Furthermore, Schneider stated that "System failures that angered citizens in recent years never were related to the LiMux project, but due to new bureaucratic procedures..." and apparently decisions by unqualified personnel at the administrative level, as Munich's administration itself states.

203 comments

  1. Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Windows paid off the right people to switch back.

    That said, open source software is great until you have to use it. OpenOffice, GIMP, KiCad...all needlessly convoluted.

    1. Re:Translation by cb88 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Libre/OpenOffce perhaps, GIMP for sure, and KiCAD a little... but they aren't that bad. I have used very expensive software that was no better... OrCAD for instance (whatever it is called now, Xilinx's toolcina etc..Visual Studio crashes on a whim...

    2. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      GIMP is much easier to use than Photoshop, they just don't have "do my creative work for me buttons" the way newer Photoshops do.

    3. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Right, LibreOffice's traditional menu system is more convoluted that the messy ribbons of MS Office.... how exactly? And have you used Photoshop? The GIMP is different, but they're both powerful tools that you have to learn how to use; nor is it so difficult to transition from on to the other.

    4. Re:Translation by Assmasher · · Score: 3, Informative

      Visual Studio crashes on a whim? Weird, I use it every single day across multiple machines and virtual machines (Win 7,8.1,10, x86 and x64) when debugging Qt applications, and for writing tools for the Windows side of the house - the last crash I experienced was in a 3rd party plugin for Visual Studio 2010 over 5 years ago. I've been using it on the Windows side for decades (all the way back to Visual C++ 1.5 days when I used it and Borland C++) and never had problems with crashing (not that it never crashed, but it rare.)

      --
      Loading...
    5. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crashes a couple of times a day for me.

    6. Re:Translation by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Libre/OpenOffce perhaps, GIMP for sure, and KiCAD a little... but they aren't that bad. I have used very expensive software that was no better... OrCAD for instance (whatever it is called now, Xilinx's toolcina etc..Visual Studio crashes on a whim...

      Why is Office 365 so much easier to use than Libre? This is surprising to me. Gimp just doesn't have the tools I need, but Microsoftt Office is at the bottom of my Office suite list.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re:Translation by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A lot depends on how you use it. The people who crash Visual Studio are obviously using it wrong ;-)

    8. Re:Translation by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Informative

      I've used GIMP and Photoshop over the years. Photoshop tends to be ahead on professional oriented workflow automation, GIMP tends to be on-par for more casual image editing. Both have a steep learning curve. Neither is worth thousands of dollars, but one will charge you that.

    9. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think most people complaining about ribbon are comparing it to MSOffice pre-ribbon.

    10. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've had two different instances of it failing to even launch on two different machines in the past week. It was actually quite stable the past few years, but its been a mess lately.

    11. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. I can't tell you how many times I've pulled out gimp and shocked friends with how many steps a single button press in photoshop does for them. I like photoshop too, I learned with gimps workflow though, and for some tasks, I can get a more fine tuned result in gimp.

      Seriously, its scary how photoshop breeds a lack of understanding of basic principles sometimes.

    12. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Having worked with a variety of programming languages and IDE's, Visual Studio has been without doubt the best tool that I've used.

    13. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last time I checked Photoshop didn't cost thousands of dollars. You can subscribe for $9.99 a month or $119.88 annually.

    14. Re:Translation by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Thinking of using any software to do anything complex is great until you actually use it.

    15. Re:Translation by Rufty · · Score: 1

      I'm obviously using it wrong. Well it crashes when I use it, so using it is wrong.

      --
      Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
    16. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Out of interest, why do you use Visual Studio to write Qt applications? One of the things I liked about switching from MFC to Qt was the fact that I didn't have to use Visual Studio and could use Qt Creator.

      The Visual Studio UI has turned into a train wreck and is very unpleasant to use, while Qt Creator is very usable. Visual Studio is Windows only while Qt Creator can be used on all platforms to give you a consistent development environment. Visual Studio is obscenely bloated and most of the functionality is of little use for C++. Last time I checked a minimum Visual Studio install (deselecting all components) was about 6GB, while Qt Creator is 223MB.

      Not having to use Visual Studio is one of the things I enjoy most about Qt. I'd therefore be interested to know what keeps you using Visual Studio?

    17. Re: Translation by bmo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Ten years of Photoshop rentals is $1198.80*

      Ten years of GIMP is still $0

      hope this helps.

      --
      BMO

      *Only if Adobe keeps the fee structure the same.
      "I have altered the deal. Pray I do not alter it any further."

    18. Re:Translation by cb88 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, about every other time I use it... it crashes at some point... also intellisense crashes after a few minutes and quits working untill I restart VS.. I'm running VS 2012 with no plugins being used.

    19. Re:Translation by Daemonik · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Usually the people who complain that software B is hard to use have been using software A for 10 years and B is just different enough to throw them off constantly.

    20. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I find LO to be easier to use than MS Office (365 or otherwise). Office has buried many things in places where you have to use the Help (which only works when online) to find it. LO still has them on menus that can be accessed the way they always were, if you can't find it on the ribbon/taskbar. LO does take up space on the local disk, but that's a Good Thing if you're using it on a tablet or laptop where the internet connection isn't Always On.

    21. Re:Translation by ls671 · · Score: 1

      The solutions to this problem have been known for years:

      Solution 1)
      Reinstall windows from scratch, then install VS.

      Solution 2)
      Run windows in a VM. I found that windows works much better if you only let it see some kind of generic hardware.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    22. Re:Translation by cb88 · · Score: 1

      I'm considering the 2nd option once my work computer gets upgraded... not bothered enough for the first option.

    23. Re:Translation by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Usually the people who complain that software B is hard to use have been using software A for 10 years and B is just different enough to throw them off constantly.

      Exactly. I made the transition from Microsoft's suite to AO and LO almost seamlessly. I had to look up some things in their spreadsheet, but that might have taken up 15 minutes. since then. On the other hand, fixing documents from Windows to OSX was a regular part of operation, I probably spent months overall.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    24. Re:Translation by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Actually, I find LO to be easier to use than MS Office (365 or otherwise). Office has buried many things in places where you have to use the Help (which only works when online) to find it. LO still has them on menus that can be accessed the way they always were, if you can't find it on the ribbon/taskbar. LO does take up space on the local disk, but that's a Good Thing if you're using it on a tablet or laptop where the internet connection isn't Always On.

      After having to obtain a fair knowledge of both ribbon and menu during the days of transition when both the menu and ribbons were in use. The problem with the Ribbon is that unless you use it for hours a day, the menu is faster, because you can find the items much more easily.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    25. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yet all are simpler to use than those equivalent that change the UI needlessly making things even more convoluted.

    26. Re:Translation by kuzb · · Score: 1

      "Visual Studio crashes on a whim" - I fail to understand how you'd know this if you staunchly oppose using Windows to the point that you no longer know what it's like. I dislike Linux zealots because they get so caught up in idealism that they fail to understand anything about what they're decrying.

      --
      BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
    27. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ...or Libre is actually a smoldering pile of shit that is still trying to play catch-up instead of leading the race. This is far more likely.

    28. Re:Translation by ls671 · · Score: 1

      good choice!

      this works fine for me with something like: /usr/bin/ionice -c 2 -n 7 /usr/bin/nice -n 5 \ /bin/su qemu -c "qemu-system-x86_64 -m 2048 \
      -smp 1 -net nic,model=virtio,macaddr=$MAC_WIN2012 \
      -drive file=win2012.0.0.img,index=0,media=disk,cache=none \
      -net tap,ifname=${TAP_WIN2012},script=no,downscript=no \
      -display vnc=127.0.0.1:${VNC_WIN2012} -daemonize \
      -pidfile /var/run/qemu/win2012.pid -enable-kvm \
      -cdrom /home/win/nobk/windowsDVD/dummy.iso \
      -boot menu=on,splash-time=15000"

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    29. Re:Translation by Assmasher · · Score: 1

      That's kind of funny because I had heard there were problems with vs 2012 - especially the betas, but they'd been fixed by the time is moved to it. That was about 8 months into it's lifecycle. Never experienced your problems - again, on all the OS variants I have to support today. Kind of curious that you're using vs 2012 when it's 2017 and anyone who paid for MSDN was eligible for 2013. If you're using the express version, that's even weirder. I'm not aware of any libraries or frameworks that are stuck on vs 2012. Almost seems unbelievable...

      --
      Loading...
    30. Re:Translation by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      It depends on the version. VS 2010 was solid, but MS royally screwed something up in VS 2012 when they rewrote the IDE, as it was highly unstable (especially with large projects), with VS 2013 just a bit better. VS 2015 has been quite stable, fortunately, and hopefully VS 2017 will continue the trend.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    31. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >"I dislike Linux zealots because they get so caught up in idealism"

      zealot or not, he's right on. if you google "visual studio crash" you find more pages than you can read in a thousand lifetimes. As a former windoze C/C++ programmer I've lived those crashes.

      MS shills (you) fvcking sux0r the corporate anvs cos they defend the indefensible and I'll bet you have never even seen (much less used) VS or you wouldn't say such stvpid shiit.

    32. Re: Translation by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Windows paid off the right people to switch back

      "Windows" did? Is that what they're calling people from the Frankfurt consulate these days?

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    33. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ty shill

    34. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cause they are m$ shills. Most people use google docs. I use libreoffice.

    35. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You had to calculate the price over 10 years to prove a point? No one is forcing anyone to use Photoshop, but when compared to Gimp, Photoshop is a much more polished and feature full product. To professionals and those of us who see value, $9.99 a month or $1198.80 over 10 years is peanuts. Hope this helps!

    36. Re:Translation by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      I can crash it occasionally. I don't tend to have many computer problems though. I think it has something to do with using them the same way as I always do and as a result they probably used to crash and I just stopped using it that way.

      I had horrible problems with GCC for a long time and with Swift and it's impressively bad compiler front end... honestly, how hard is it to write a parser that actually can tell where it had problems parsing. It's like seeing a parser writing by a lazy oaf.

    37. Re:Translation by kronix1986 · · Score: 1

      "Neither is worth thousands of dollars, but one will charge you that."

      Photoshop is worth its cost if you're a professional. The majority of people who use/pirate Photoshop aren't professionals and would be happy with Paint.NET, let alone GIMP.

    38. Re:Translation by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 3, Informative

      > nor is it so difficult to transition from on to the other.

      I use BOTH Photoshop and GIMP.

      While they BOTH suck GIMP's lack of native layer blend modes still suck more compared to Photoshop. Namely:

      Photoshop Gimp
      ========= ====
      Normal = Normal
      Dissolve = Dissolve
      - -
      Darken = Darken only
      Multiply = Multiply
      Color Burn -- MISSING
      Linear Burn = Burn
      Darker Color -- MISSING
      - -
      Lighten = Lighten only
      Screen = Screen
      Color Dodge = Dodge
      Linear Dodge
      MISSING = Addition
      Lighter Color -- MISSING
      - -
      Overlay -- MISSING!
      Soft Light -- MISSING
      Hard Light -- MISSING
      Vivid Light -- MISSING
      Pin Light -- MISSING
      Hard Mix -- MISSING
      - -
      Difference = Difference
      Exclusion -- MISSING
      Subtract = Subtract
        MISSING Grain extract
      MISSING Grain merge
      Divide = Divide
      - -
      Hue = Hue
      Saturation = Saturation
      Color = Color
      Luminosity = Value

      Gimp's lack of native 16-bit greyscale, and 32-bit / channel also make it suck.

      But for the "most part" the two are functionally equivalent.

    39. Re: Translation by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      What part of "We've terminated your subscription for $arbitrary_reason" do you fail to understand?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    40. Re:Translation by ssam · · Score: 1

      23bit color shouldn't be long now https://www.gimp.org/news/2017... , and the 2.9.x dev builds are pretty usable.

    41. Re:Translation by ssam · · Score: 1

      32 bit

    42. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Usually the people who say GIMP or Libre Office sucks have only used it for a few minutes or have used it in the distant past where it did actually suck.

    43. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i have a stash of old desktops on hand to run my old paid-for perpetual license of photoshop. ADOBE WILL NEVER GET SUBSCRIPTION REVENUE FROM ME -- EVER.

      on the 'online' computer, i use paintshop pro, and use it for most everything these days - only going back to photoshop to edit old original photoshop files, for the most part, anyway.

      what about gimp? it flat out fucking sucks. paint.net? that's even worse.

      similarly, when office 2010 goes end-of-life, it will join photoshop on the always-offline "legacy" computers. i'd rather use wordperfect office (on the 'online' systems) than give microsoft another penny for office.

      they need to nix the microsoft account requirement and sell a retail product with real install media for me to even consider buying a new microsoft office.

    44. Re: Translation by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1

      Photoshop might be more polished, but do I need those extra features ? The gimp serves me fine for selecting part of a photo to make another one; this is just about all that I need/want to do. No: I am not a professional photographer, but then most of us are not.

    45. Re:Translation by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      Even better when paired with something like Ubuntu's Unity desktop environment which puts the menus on a search hotkey.

      Tap <alt> and type part of the command you're looking for, presto! It even remembers the ones you use the most, I think. There's a reason editors like Atom and Eclipse, etc, have something like this baked into the program itself (and it's not just because Atom with a bunch of plugins has more menu items than the food court at Disney).

    46. Re: Translation by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 3

      My daughter thinks GIMP is great and Photoshop is crap ; but she started with GIMP. It is largely about what you've learned and overcoming the "yuk" factor of having to learn a different way of doing things.

      I get the same feeling when I have to use Windows, or OSX, for any kind of productive work when for the last decade I've been using Linux.

    47. Re: Translation by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Informative

      I was about to retort with some interesting fact about the version of Photoshop I was using still working just fine but ...

      As of January 9th 2017 you can no longer buy Photoshop and it's now exclusively available through a creative cloud subscription.

      Fuck em.

    48. Re:Translation by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Oh, VS is not free of error. I've seen crashes and freezes beore and currently I have to deal with no longer being able to create new WPF views and windows, only custom controls. (Yes, creating a custom control and changing the parent class works perfectly fine but it's annoying.)

      It is fairly stable but it does screw up occasionally. Sill not "on a whim", though, I agree on that.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    49. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go away troll.

    50. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The "-daemonize" option is essential for Windows to enable all the evil features.

    51. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Soft Light -- MISSING
      Hard Light -- MISSING

      I'm seeing them on Gimp 2.8.10.

      Which version did you use for comparison?

    52. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      24 bit + 8 alpha blend.

    53. Re:Translation by sonamchauhan · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe you're moving your mouse around too rapidly. The telemetry service cannot keep pace!

    54. Re: Translation by TheOuterLinux · · Score: 1

      I've never have a problem with open source software until I use it on something other than Linux. I wish Inkscape would ditch X11 (Quartz) already. Even OBS Studio runs better on Linux (needs OpenGL 3+) than on MacOS. Having that said though I built a custom Linux distro and have the latest versions of mentioned open source software (~3GB ISO actually) running on a 2008 MacBook and on an Acer Aspire One ZG5 (can't remember the year it came out) just beautifully. It's OpenSUSE 13.2, 32-bit based, but it'll run kernel 4.10, even PAE for 4+ GB RAM if you know what repo to use. So, if Linux is making my 9 year old computer run like new, I don't see the benefit of running Window$. We've got WINE now anyway and it runs Office 2013 just fine if you absolutely must have it. I think Micro$oft is just trying to get ahold of government money because if something breaks, and it will, they will always have licensed IT guys with jobs around the clock. That's why I always laugh when I see "Micro$oft created blah blah many jobs in so in so year." Of they did. If everyone used Unix-based OS's, IT would be cut in half, at least.

    55. Re: Translation by F.Ultra · · Score: 1

      That is that the people from India say when they call and tell me that I apparantly have a problem with my computer that needs to be fixed by installing some trojan of theirs: "Hello I'm calling from Windows".

    56. Re: Translation by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      cause they are m$ shills. Most people use google docs. I use libreoffice.

      Yeah you're right. I kinda asked the question already knowing what the answer was. 8^)

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    57. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Odd. Even Linux reccomends, if the system gets buggy, to reinstall the system. Why would you not do the same with win? The last time I looked at Apple and Android, they said the same, so stop being a !!!. That's why the probably stopped using Linux, no customer service. Or someone not seeing the forest, it has to work, now, or have customer service that can walk in and say,here is a loaner, set up so the slowest user can use it on their worst day.

    58. Re: Translation by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Maybe because reinstalling your OS and applications typically means several hours of "wasted" time up front, and at least several days of getting all the little details you forgot about dialed in again.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    59. Re:Translation by ElizabethGreene · · Score: 1

      The problem with the Ribbon is that unless you use it for hours a day, the menu is faster, because you can find the items much more easily.

      Office user here: I feel the pain on this. For that random thing you use once in a blue moon it can be a PITA to find it on the Ribbon or Menus. Office 2016 has a "tell me what you want to do" box above the ribbon now. I use it a lot instead of trying to find the button to insert data from an ODBC source or convert text to columns.

      Full disclosure: I work for Microsoft helping Enterprises fix and deploy Windows. The above is my own opinion and not paid shilling.

    60. Re:Translation by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Had to chuckle - I'd probably type in "tear my air out" some days........

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    61. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most of the things people think are missing in Gimp are called something else.

      But I use overlay, soft light, and hard light in Gimp all the time when doing digital art. They're definitely there.

      You can also create pretty much any kind of light layer in Gimp and have it work, vivid or other, and have been able to since at least 2013. It's kind of a pain, but it's there.

      You have no idea how to use Gimp. That doesn't make features "missing" it means you have no idea how to use it.

    62. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The worst part is everything has to have an icon and little to no text, yet it's completely impossible to design an icon with no text to describe "Insert data from ODBC source".

      For any home user, sure, ribbon... wooo, pretty pictures and less working screen area! Yay...

      For anyone who uses Office to do.. you know... actual work... menus and shortcuts are far faster, and not having half of your working area taken up by a load of whitespace and pretty pictures is far more important to get work done... Honestly, your UI designers are fucking shocking.

    63. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then stick to Gimp, you obviously don't need it! What point are you trying to make?

    64. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How often does that happen? What percentage of the user bese are impacted? If that happens to you because you did something illegal or against the terms of use, here is the world's smallest violin...

    65. Re: Translation by Alain+Williams · · Score: 1

      What point are you trying to make?

      Others are making much hot air about gimp not being as good as photoshop. My point is that gimp is good enough for a lot of people, give them photoshop (at whatever cost) and they won't use the extra features.

    66. Re: Translation by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Please learn what "arbitrary" means. Then get back to us.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    67. Re: Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Will do, thanks for the tip!! :)

    68. Re:Translation by jwhyche · · Score: 4, Informative

      at said, open source software is great until you have to use it. OpenOffice, GIMP, KiCad...all needlessly convoluted.

      I can see that with gimp. It has one of the worse interfaces for any software that I have seen. I don't know about KiCad as I have never used it. Openoffice is several years out of date. Do they still maintain it?

      Libreoffice 5.x+ is what you want to use. 4.x and below I always seemed to have issues interfacing with the rest of the MS office world. Not so with 5.x+ and above.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    69. Re: Translation by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      For the last 20 years I have almost never reinstalled a OS unless it was a fresh build, on a my production equipment. You know what the key to that is? Don't load weird shit from back ally sites on to your production equipment.

      My current load of windows on this machine is 5 years old. Granted it started as a windows 7 machine and worked its way up to windows 10. The linux load on the bitch box behind me is 3 years old.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    70. Re:Translation by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      To each his own I say. I use MS office in work environment because of compatibility issues with libre office. I know it has gotten so much better in 5.x now, but still I will stick to MS office there. I can lose a contract just because some client can't open a proposal in their copy of word. Not worth the chance to me.

      I use libreoffice 5.x for personal writings. I like the feel of librewrite over ms word. Librewrite reminds me of the word processors I used to use on the Amiga back in college.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    71. Re: Translation by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      I know several people that use libreoffice for work. Mostly die hard penguins that use linux for work too.

      I don't know any one, at all, that uses google docs for anything. Not even personal use.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    72. Re:Translation by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      Photoshop is geared for professionals where time is money. If you can get a photo done with a push of a button that will save you hours of work. That is a good thing.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    73. Re:Translation by ssam · · Score: 1

      No, 32bit per channel. so 128bit per RGBA pixel

    74. Re:Translation by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      I can lose a contract just because some client can't open a proposal in their copy of word. Not worth the chance to me.

      You really really should be sending your proposals as cryptographically signed PDFs. Both because of the aforementioned problem and because you want to have the ability to prove the customer still has what you sent, days or weeks later. PDFs display the same everywhere, including Android and iOS, and any decent PDF viewer makes them easy to annotate as well.

      And... guess which office suite it's trivially easy to export a PDF from, for free? Yeah, LibreOffice.

      As for compatibility issues when editing the same document together with another person, the only way to do it reliably with MS Office is if you both have absolutely identical versions of MS Office, down to the patch level. DOC format is such a fucking disaster that Microsoft's own tool will break it if passed between versions that aren't even all that far apart. LibreOffice has broken documents in its own format before too, but it's considerably less common, and of course it's free for everyone to use the same version.

      Personally, I found it easier to transition between Word and LibreWriter than it was to transition between Word and the new version of Word with the ribbon abomination. I used a ribbon version of Office for 4 years, and now that I'm perfectly familiar with it, I still despise it. Why the LibreOffice people felt obliged to waste hundreds of hours of developer time on imitating the pathetic disaster that is the ribbon, I'm sure I don't know.

    75. Re: Translation by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      I've been using Photoshop since 1999, GIMP since 2003, 18 years of subscription would be closer to $2000.

    76. Re: Translation by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      If you find yourself processing a set of 100 images, doing the same repetitive 27 operations over and over, you probably could benefit from Photoshop.'

      If you mostly just crop, clone, color balance and blur - you don't even need GIMP, but you may as well use it for the rare occasion when you want to build a layered image.

    77. Re: Translation by cb88 · · Score: 1

      Somewhere between half a day and over a day in my case... since That would be SQL server , VS 2012 etc.. Indusoft (Like Wonderware lite) , Vmware Player, Office 353, KiCad , 7zip, Thankfully not the PLC software we already run that in a VM since it tries to screw up the network configuration... various VPN software as well to access systems on site remotely.

      I'm looking foward to having an SSD sometime in the future... and usb 3.1..

    78. Re: Translation by cb88 · · Score: 1

      My install is about 3 years old nothing wierd installed... but lots of industrial software that likes to muck about in the system.

    79. Re:Translation by cb88 · · Score: 1

      Vendors use what their software is built on... in many cases we don't upgrade untill the job site gets upgraded...etc.. new jobs are running on 2015 it just happens that I do more with KiCad and embedded C/C++ than Visual Studio but we all tend to get our hands in everything where I work.

      Frankly the only reason I haven't been upgraded is I havent' worked on one of the newer jobs where I needed to be upgraded yet (we've been on 2015 for around a year I think but I've been working on other projects).

    80. Re:Translation by cb88 · · Score: 1

      More than likely I'd use VirtualBox.. seamless mode is pretty handy.

      That said I have used QEMU before.. but even though I doubt I'd use it over vnc.. I probably would investigate the new GPU virtualization support they've been talking up.

    81. Re:Translation by beastofburdon · · Score: 0

      You can keep your playschool toys. I'll stick with the tools made for adults.

    82. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At the start of the 21st century, people teased their cats with lasers pointers. As the singularity approached, those cats were soon replaced with AI sense organs and the pointers with mice. O/I, the depravity of men and their AI torturing desires!

  2. Hahaha learn your place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you don't know how it works.

  3. Sounds like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He is trying to cover his own ass and deflect blame for failure.

  4. LibreOffice by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 0, Troll

    No more compelling reason than that. What a piece of garbage.

    --
    Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    1. Re: LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Better than Micro$oft Office 365.

    2. Re: LibreOffice by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Better than Micro$oft Office 365.

      By a country mile.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes! I've used Linux as my main OS for the past 7 years, and I agree that LibreOffice being as good as MS Office is a pretty good reason not to use the piece of garbage OS known as Windows.

      p.s. Oh shit. I just fed the troll.

    4. Re:LibreOffice by shigutso · · Score: 1

      You do realize that most people don't need to create complex spreadsheets, right? LibreOffice Calc, or even Google Spreadsheets will do just fine, then.
      You know what is a real piece of garbage? Notepad.exe

    5. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes! I've used Linux as my main OS for the past 7 years, and I agree that LibreOffice being as good as MS Office is a pretty good reason not to use the piece of garbage OS known as Windows.

      p.s. Oh shit. I just fed the troll.

      I have been using GNU/Linux since 1992 and full-time since 2000. I avoid any office suite preferring vim and LaTex or some dialect of markdown depending on the task at hand. I perform data analytics and statistical analysis at the command line on a daily basis.

    6. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Libre Office has some statistical functions that Excel doesn't have or at least didn't the last time I checked. For my use, those alone make it worth while.

    7. Re:LibreOffice by CastrTroy · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Not everybody needs complex spreadsheets, but even simple ones can be made a lot better with couple key features from Excel that seem to be missing in Open/Libre Office. The major missing thing is defining tables. It makes things so much easier to work with in Excel and OpenOffice has no equivalent feature.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    8. Re:LibreOffice by drinkypoo · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The major missing thing is defining tables. It makes things so much easier to work with in Excel and OpenOffice has no equivalent feature.

      Is there any benefit to that over simply adding another sheet/tab to the spreadsheet, besides making it prettier? That's not useless, but generally speaking if you are approaching the level of complexity where it matters, wouldn't you be better off with a webapp? I don't want to hand a user a spreadsheet they can break, ever, and I'm smart enough to select a different tab and enter some data into it.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    9. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. Learn the features of Excel tables. Business people live and breathe Excel. They know what they are doing. Switching to a pathetic "webapp" will be expensive even if the software is free.

      I'm smart enough to select a different tab and enter some data into it.

      But not smart enough to realize users know more about Excel than you do and your job is to support what they need for their job.

    10. Re:LibreOffice by drinkypoo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Business people live and breathe Excel. They know what they are doing.

      I've seen plenty of evidence that they don't.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I thought so too, right up until I found an entire department manually calculating and entering results into a spreadsheet.
      You might as well have them write it in a notebook.

    12. Re:LibreOffice by Plus1Entropy · · Score: 1

      LibreOffice is actually what I use, because I don't have to use it very often (10 times per year). For that, I don't want to pay for MS Office and I have moved away from piracy as I've gotten older. I probably still have a cracked Office 2007 on a DVD around here somewhere...

      Honestly, it's fine as long as you don't have to use it that often, e.g. when someone insists on sending you .doc/.docx files. But I imagine the city of Munich has to use it quite a bit more than I do. If Office-related stuff is a regular part of your job, invest in MS. Frankly, it's one of the few things they do better than everyone else.

      I don't see what relevance Notepad.exe has to this conversation.

      --
      Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
    13. Re:LibreOffice by rtb61 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Apparantly you are wrong, https://www.google.com.au/sear... leads to https://ask.libreoffice.org/en.... Wow that was really so hard.

      Next step in this story should be a in depth investigation of why the new incoming politician pushed so hard on this apparently with zero consultation with his IT staff. Most probable, M$ paid them a bribe (campaign contribution) to push it, so the arse holes at M$ could use if for marketing purposed and the stupendously invasive POS windows anal probe 10, dies a slow grim death.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    14. Re: LibreOffice by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      LO may be a better editor.

      It's terrible at being compatible with MS Office though, which is sadly the number one must-have feature of an office suite. And only MS Office nails it, and then only within the current version.

      LibreOffice is probably better at being compatible with old versions of Office than modern versions of Office though. Many's the time I've seen old Office documents rescued by being loaded into LibreOffice and saved as a more modern format that the current version can understand.

      As long as all your target document recipients are either using LibreOffice, or will accept PDF, you're fine. If you have to send your documents to someone who uses MS Office, you can't rely on LibreOffice not to embarrass you horribly - even though it's MS Office screwing up the formats, layouts, footers/headers, etc.

    15. Re:LibreOffice by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      To be fair we can say the same thing about app developers :-)

    16. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Learn the features of Excel tables.

      That helps, yes.

      Business people live and breathe Excel.

      Well, some do. Many of them think they do. There's a difference.

      They know what they are doing.

      Most of them definitely do not know what they are doing, based on 20+ years of experience in a number of companies watching the utter messes most of them produce.

    17. Re: LibreOffice by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure whether MSOOXML compatibility is terribly important, though. I very rarely see .docx files in the wild; pretty much everyone is still using .doc - and LO's Office 97/2003 compatibility is rock solid, at least for the documents I've encountered so far.

      The document format where you absolutely must have the proprietary software package would be PDF these days - while you can open most PDFs in any old PDF reader, some places will send you documents as interactive, heavily scripted PDF files that (badly) try to reinvent Excel. Good luck trying to deal with those without an up-to-date version of Adobe Reader.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    18. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Business people live and breathe Excel. They know what they are doing."

      Ha ha ha, funniest thing I've read all day.

    19. Re: LibreOffice by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      If a person lives and breathes spreadsheets and thinks they are the solution for all their business needs then they are completely incompetent.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    20. Re: LibreOffice by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      The telling phrase there is "And only MS Office nails it, and then only within the current version."

      That's a dead giveaway that you don't have a document, you have an artifact of a very specific release (and possibly even very specific maintenance) of a certain software product. Not exactly something you can enjoy through the ages.

      Back before soft fonts were the norm, we used to have horrible problems in my office with documents that when passed from one person to another would completely lose their page integrity even though everyone was using the same version of Windows and the same version of Office. Because the typesetting metrics were computed based on what physical fonts were installed in their printers. Soft fonts reduced the problem, since every user could be supplied with the exact same fontset irrespective of their brand, model, and options of printer(s).

      If you absolutely, positively must have pixel-accurate page rendition, generate a PDF. That's what they're designed for. If you simply want word-processing rather than page layout, you can make your documents a LOT more portable simply by not using the word-processing program as a dumb typewriter. Don't use the "Return" key to determine vertical spacing or the space bar to determine horizontal spacing. Use tabs and styles. Use the paragraph widow/orphan attributes. Use hard page breaks if you want an absolute location for a page break.

      Do this and you'll be amazed at how well most documents will travel to/from Open/Libre Writer and MS-Word. And, for that matter, between different copies of MS-Word.

    21. Re:LibreOffice by F.Ultra · · Score: 3, Interesting

      AFAIK the new major of Munich boasts that he was the one responsible for Microsoft relocating their German HQ from Frankfurt to Munich so this is most definitely political and not technical.

    22. Re: LibreOffice by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

      Is there a "word processing mode"?, or "content mode"?
      When we hit return twice to space out paragraphs, it's because that's easier and in the mean time the paragraphs are spaced out, like we intend to.
      If we're not supposed to do that, so much as it's considered harmful, maybe there should be a GUI mode where you're constrained from doing that. You hit enter and it doesn't let you go down one more line unless you do something "right" like introduce a new paragraph, section, page break etc.

      If word processors default to being a typewriter, and the proper way of using it (even since the 90s) is an "advanced" feature that requires going into menus and trying to figure out what the hell a "style" is, while a single manual adjustment breaks it all, then maybe the design of word processors is flawed.

    23. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Business people live and breathe Excel. They know what they are doing.

      I can't even imagine anyone saying that with a straight face.

    24. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Notepad.exe has to this conversation.

      Nothing at all.

      Fortunately, there is a free & excellent solution to that problem for those among us who have to use Windows.

    25. Re: LibreOffice by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      WIH Are you even using Word instead of simply using Windows Notepad?

      The whole point of having a word processor over a simple text editor is because it provides a smarter, more powerful way of creating and maintaining formatted documents.

      When you want to double-space between paragraphs, you hit Enter twice between each paragraph. And, of course, subject yourself to random format changes when you port the document.

      When I want to double-space between paragraphs, I edit the paragraph style and change the spacing there. And immediately, every paragraph in the document gets spaced automatically. The random reformatting is greatly reduced, because intelligent style spacing doesn't count the extra "blank" lines as lines.

      Plus I can control spacing to fractions of lines, automatic paragraph numbering doesn't count the blank spaces in the paragraph count (something lawyers wouldn't want to do). And so forth.

      Styles are one of the most basic concepts of word processing, whether it's Open/Libre Office or MS-Word or virtually any other product. I think even WordPerfect had them.

      If it's too much trouble to learn how to use a program as anything than a blunt instrument, then you probably ought to just use a blunt instrument.

    26. Re: LibreOffice by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      I was describing the common use case for common people, i.e. 90%+ people only use a word processor infrequently to write a curriculum and don't know about the features, that's all. Maybe the Clippy assistant was a good idea but I've never really encountered it.
      Anyway blogs, wikis and emails replaced writing word processor document in the 2000s, for common home users. Or the lazier alternative of not writing any documents at all.

      In the late 90s/early 00s I might have written letters maybe, but my parents had got an Epson inkjet printer (and eventually another one). It didn't work the one time we needed something important printed. Bad timing of technology. Inkjet printers is garbage technology that doesn't work, with the printer vendor actively fighting you. Black and white laser still cost like a used car back then.
      So in my experience, unless you were a professional whose tasks including writing word documents, word processors were never really that important. The general public went from handwritten letters and school homework and essays etc. to Internet stuff. Not everyone had a printer, in my country at least.

    27. Re: LibreOffice by jwhyche · · Score: 2

      Depends on what office environment you are in. Everyone in my company uses office 2013 and up. All our documents come across as docx. I hardly ever see a plan doc, document in the wild any more.

      --
      I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    28. Re:LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Use vim, it's weird but it's nice.

      http://www.vim.org/images/0xbabaf000l.png

      Also:

      https://www.hackread.com/wikileaks-vault7-cia-docs-notepad-plus-vlc/

      OTOH, if one uses Windows, probably Notepad++ will be the least of worries...

    29. Re: LibreOffice by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      I'm sure it's more widespread than that. Offices where virtually everything has to be a Word document.

      But there's a difference between casually banging out a memo and a formatted document. I can forgive brute-force spacing for the quick-and-dirty stuff. I might even have been guilty of it myself on occasion. It's the words that count there, not so much the appearance.

      What I'm railing against are the people who are complaining about the "wrong" word processor ruining their document formatting. These are the people who should know better. They are the "professionals writing word documents". People who are going to be sending copies of those documents to possibly unknown destinations with possibly unknown software versions. Business letters, user manuals, and other archival-worthy documentation.

      Back in an earlier century I worked in an office where we shared 2 HP Laserjet printers. One was a LaserJet 2 and one was a LaserJet 3. They had different hardware font sets and it very definitely made a difference in how documents would appear when printed and the users complained to the support person (me). So there was some incentive to make the documents portable even within a relative monoculture.

    30. Re:LibreOffice by pablo_mccombs · · Score: 1

      If you take the time to read the page linked from the parent you will see that excel table functionality is not implemented in Libre Office.
      Personally I'm not a fan of using a spreadsheet as a database, but the parent post was rated informative and it is misleading.

  5. Ob by Hognoxious · · Score: 0

    "System failures that angered citizens in recent years never were related to the LiMux project, but due to new bureaucratic procedures..."

    Zey voss just followink orders.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:Ob by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      What's withe the downmods? It's almost like Germans don't have a sense of humour or something.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  6. millions of euros and years of work by swell · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Um, it cost that much to switch to Linux? This can't be encouraging to other cities / governments. Exactly how was the money and time spent? Inquiring minds want to know!

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
    1. Re:millions of euros and years of work by dbIII · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The cost of buying computers over the last decade adds up to a bit no matter what you put on them.

    2. Re: millions of euros and years of work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Licenses... $0
      Anpassung... $2,000,000
      Transexuellen Waschraum für Linux-Benutzer.... $2,500,000
      Prostituierte und Kokain... $3,500,000

    3. Re: millions of euros and years of work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as all the associated service providers pay their taxes, social security and perform their mandatory health checks, it's alles gut, Ja?

    4. Re:millions of euros and years of work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cost of buying computers over the last decade adds up to a bit no matter what you put on them.

      Some of the things you put on them clamor louder for new hardware than others. I've worked with very affordable hardware for decades exactly because it was considered obsolete for Windows use.

    5. Re:millions of euros and years of work by David_Hart · · Score: 2

      The cost of buying computers over the last decade adds up to a bit no matter what you put on them.

      I'm willing to bet that the cost isn't for hardware, it would be the same hardware whether they were running Windows or a Linux variant. The cost probably went into development of their version of Linux, the packaging and testing of the OS and apps, the development of a support system, and training. All of this requires labour, which tends to be more expensive than software (i.e. most of this would be off-the-shelf software in the Windows world).

    6. Re:millions of euros and years of work by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Linux is only free if your time is worth nothing. Hardware and software had to be spec'd and tested. Software had to be written, people had to be trained, etc etc. It certainly isn't as easy as installing Linux and then sitting someone down and saying "here you go, carry on".

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    7. Re:millions of euros and years of work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > it would be the same hardware whether they were running Windows or a Linux variant.

      That was not true in the case of Munich. At the start of Limux they had computers running NT. They could use these to run Limux but would have had to replace these to go to XP and again to go to Win7. That was a massive part of the saving*.

      * Note: the HP report (paid for by Microsoft) assumed that Limux required new computers every 3 years and 'estimated' the costs to be hugely higher than they actually were.

    8. Re:millions of euros and years of work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Hardware and software had to be spec'd and tested. Software had to be written, people had to be trained,

      Do you think that those don't apply to Windows? In particular people have to be trained fo XP, then for Vista, then 7, 8 and 10. They have to be trained for Office XP, then for 2006, 2010, 2013, ...

    9. Re:millions of euros and years of work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > * Note: the HP report (paid for by Microsoft) assumed that Limux required new computers every 3 years

      I find this an egregious mismanagement of the IT landscape in a company. This is only devised to compensate for Windows decay, i.e. the need to replace your computers wholesale because the OS became unresponsive... "coincidentally" some time after a new Windows version is released.

      I'm typing this on a 7-year old computer, working flawlessly till now. I expect it to be OK at least until when it reaches 10 years. BTW, I don't stop buying computers because of that: I just happen to equip my house with several machines, each dedicated to a planned use or to a person.

      3 years is too short, especially in light of recent years lack of significant developments in desktops (smart phones are another totally different case).

    10. Re:millions of euros and years of work by dbIII · · Score: 1

      You are only willing to bet because you can't understand that in open source a large portion of the development work is already done for you. Sure, somebody's taxes/payroll/whatever paid for each piece but it only has to be done once instead of so much reinventing wheels.
      Also you don't seem to get that administration costs for non-MS systems are low due to replacement being far more trivial than even re-imaging. Throw a drive with an installed system in just about anything and you are good to go, no mucking about with drivers because they are all on the disk already. In comparison with enough MS systems even licence management becomes a full time position.

    11. Re:millions of euros and years of work by alexandru_preoteasa · · Score: 1

      For better or for worse, Windows is the de facto standard, therefore people are more-or-less used to its interface/terminology/etc.
      It is what it is... and the guy you're responding to has a point, sometimes I'd rather something just work, rather than futz around on forums describing a 500-character command line fix for what ails my drivers | networking and/or network shares | permissions | updates | display manager | ...

  7. Where is the User choice in all of this by ConallB · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Whenever I read stories like this, ie. Windows vs. Linux vs. OSX vs. it seems to always be from the perspective of the implementers or those looking to make a point about whether it can be done. Why not offer choice? Why the constant insistence that users must have the flavour of the day foisted upon them?

    There is complexity in running an estate with multiple OS on offer but the truth is, any sysadmins capable of running a *nix infrastructure and operation should find supporting and mainlining other OS estates relatively straightforward.

    In my personal life I make good use of all 3 mainstream OS and at work I have a choice which is made available all users too.

    And with modern browsers offering productivity suites through web based platforms and file storage and infrastructure delivered via consolidated IaaS / AWS / Azure / Google Compute / NEOther why does anyone even care about the opinions techies have in regards to their own preferences.

    Use what's right for you and let the technology work with your choice to ensure interoperability, security and information management. That's where the techies should focus.

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    1. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Why the constant insistence that users must have the flavour of the day foisted upon them?

      Because it's driven by salesfolk who focus on the very short term.

      And with modern browsers offering productivity suites through web based platforms

      Yes. Also X Windows and RDP things make it easier to run stuff where it will run well and display it on whatever the user has, even a phone or tablet if necessary. Some of the third party RDP things even have similar functionality to X where they can export a single application window (instead of the MS thing that gives you a user confusing extra desktop, making it more or less just VNC that you have to pay for only with some virus vectors).

    2. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by lucm · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Do you rejoice when you get an email about an upgrade of the vending machines in the company cafeteria, or do you worry about the new machines not carrying the kind of soft drinks or candy bars you're used to? That's basically how a typical office worker feels about computers. Spend a week working helpdesk and you'll understand that very very clearly.

      That's why when you manage a large pool of workstations you want the bare minimum that users need to do their work, and why you want that bare minimum to be set in stone. Otherwise you're just annoying users and adding more support tickets to your queue.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    3. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whenever I read stories like this, ie. Windows vs. Linux vs. OSX vs. it seems to always be from the perspective of the implementers or those looking to make a point about whether it can be done. Why not offer choice?

      If you use Microsoft office, you put a straitjacket on your system. Not compatible with OSX version of Office, no software at all for Linux.

      Choice is nice, but why choose the most limiting OS and Office Suite? I run LO, and my Mac shows the same as my Windows shows the same as my Linux shows the same.

      That's why I use it.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    4. Re: Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i dont think this is a bring your own device environment.

    5. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      If you use Microsoft office, you put a straitjacket on your system. Not compatible with OSX version of Office

      That comes as news to me as a Mac OS user in a mainly Windows based office environment. There are no serious compatibility issues between the two versions of Office in my considerable (more than 10 years) experience of use g the Mac versions.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    6. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Why not offer choice? Why the constant insistence that users must have the flavour of the day foisted upon them?

      False dichotomy. The users should be given the best tool for the job, when all requirements are considered. Standardizing on one platform makes many things simpler, so it should surprise no one that people would like to do that. Hell, I avoid running any Unix other than Linux simply so that I don't have to remember a whole other set of tools. I'm going to have devices running Linux, why complicate things?

      In my personal life I make good use of all 3 mainstream OS and at work I have a choice which is made available all users too.

      It's nice when that makes sense, but it costs more to do things that way in many if not all cases, and it's not clear that there would be any real benefit here.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    7. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The users should be given the best tool for the job, when all requirements are considered. Standardizing on one platform makes many things simpler, so it should surprise no one that people would like to do that.

      Vote parent up!

      The people who will use the software tool(s) must be surveyed to discover their actual operational requirements. The results of that survey must then be used to find the smallest set of software that best meets their requirements. Less software means fewer interoperability problems, which means lower support costs, which means lower TCO.

    8. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Why not offer choice?

      As an IT technician, I'm more than happy to take away your a PC and give you a box of crayons to get your work done. The employer provides the equipment to get the job done. Not every job requires a PC. Some people can get by with a typewriter, a pen or crayons. I once had a boss who gave me a box of crayons and I embarrassed the hell out of him by presenting my finished report in crayons to his boss.

    9. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      User choice is great if the users are going to be self-supporting. If you've got a room full of people who want to use a different app on a different OS on a different device form factor to do the same thing, you're going to spend all your resources going desk-to-desk to troubleshoot things rather than just changing one setting centrally.

      Plus, if you're running a government, then you have extra responsibilities:

      1) make good use of public funds - yeah, the money you save on licensing might all get spent on additional support. But if that support is local, you're ploughing money back into the local economy rather than the coffers of a US megacorp.

      2) not to force your citizens to use a specific commercial product - using open standards mean that I can use whatever I want to access government documents, not just a recent copy of MS Office. I could even write my own word processor or program to directly parse data published by the government. Whilst Office can output ODF and other open formats, if it's going to be a hassle to export them, a lot of the time it's easier just to use a lowest-common denominator (csv) or just not release it to the public at all. Worst of all is that inevitably someone is going *require* a proprietary format for submissions - it won't matter that it's stupid or against policy, it will happen.

      3) show leadership - if you put the investment in to open source projects, tool chains and methodologies to make them work for you, they'll work for everyone else too. Also, if you believe that point 1 is valid, then promoting OSS to nearby organisations is good for everyone: if your country has a well-localised version of a bit of software, it's more likely to be used. If your city has consultants with a lot of experience making OSS work for large organisations, then maybe other organisations will take the plunge too. If your organisation requires experience with OSS tools, it creates a market people with those skills, and a market for training people to use those tools.

    10. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by matbury6017 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The trouble is that Microsoft don't like their users to have choice. They bake-in proprietary features and incompatibilities that prevent users from sharing documents and files across operating systems or going outside their software walled gardens. How many prosecutions against Microsoft for anti-competitive practices will it take to convince you? They don't want their users to have choice, they want their users to be stuck with using their products and services and unable to easily switch to others.

      I can see that for people whose jobs are doing stuff other than ICT will see the transition from one OS and office software to another as a problem. It's one transition, once. Anyone who's experienced Win10 can attest that it's so different to previous versions and that they've changed around MS Office so much lately, that the learning curve to switch to Linux is comparable. So why not? Also, there's the privacy issues with Win10 (Microsoft calls their key-loggers and spyware "telemetry") that all governments should be wary of. Keep your privacy and control with Linux as well as save a few € in the process.

    11. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by DraconPern · · Score: 1

      But your LO document doesn't show the same as your co-worker's MSOffice.

    12. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      Also, there's the privacy issues with Win10 (Microsoft calls their key-loggers and spyware "telemetry") that all governments should be wary of.

      I'd change the last part of that sentence from "that all governments should be wary of" to "that all people/businesses should be wary of"... I'd bet all of this
      "telemetry" crap is *not* just desired by MS but was requested by the government.. After all the NSA needs *something* to fill that giant Utah datacenter they spent so many billions on....

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
    13. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by ToasterMonkey · · Score: 1

      There is complexity in running an estate with multiple OS on offer but the truth is, any sysadmins capable of running a *nix infrastructure and operation should find supporting and mainlining other OS estates relatively straightforward.

      Salty Linux & Solaris SA: If you can afford a *nix sysadmin team, you can afford a contractor to install and run Windows management infrastructure while you look for a permanent hire.

      Anyone's capable of learning Mandarin, and it'd be swell if everyone learned another language, but don't tell me to start doing "just" half my work in it next week... "cause you're smart." I'm not that stupid.

    14. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by rdtripp · · Score: 1

      Do you rejoice when you get an email about an upgrade of the vending machines in the company cafeteria, or do you worry about the new machines not carrying the kind of soft drinks or candy bars you're used to? That's basically how a typical office worker feels about computers. Spend a week working helpdesk and you'll understand that very very clearly.

      That's why when you manage a large pool of workstations you want the bare minimum that users need to do their work, and why you want that bare minimum to be set in stone. Otherwise you're just annoying users and adding more support tickets to your queue.

      I could not agree more.

    15. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But your MSOffice doesn't show the same as your co-worker's MSOffice either. In my experience, LO does a far better job of compatibility with various Office versions than Microsoft ever did - but, of course, with Office versions differing so wildly being giving similar results to one naturally means giving different results to another, so it depends which specific MSOffice you're comparing LO to. If you and all your co-workers coordinate on a single version of Office and don't upgrade from there then you avoid the problem, but then you might as well coordinate on LO and not have the problem in the first place.

    16. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by kronix1986 · · Score: 1

      "no software at all for Linux."

      I'm assuming you mean desktop Linux, because Microsoft Office is available for Android and is free on that platform. Android has what, 99.9% of the Linux market?

      Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook and OneNote are all freely available on Google Play and do not require Office 365 subscriptions - they're fully featured regardless.

    17. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      I'd change the last part of that sentence from "that all governments should be wary of" to "that all people/businesses should be wary of"... I'd bet all of this
      "telemetry" crap is *not* just desired by MS but was requested by the government.

      Not necessarily by the Munich government.

    18. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Whenever I read stories like this, ie. Windows vs. Linux vs. OSX vs. it seems to always be from the perspective of the implementers or those looking to make a point about whether it can be done. Why not offer choice? Why the constant insistence that users must have the flavour of the day foisted upon them?

      Because the cost of maintaining one system is far less than half the cost of maintaining 2 systems.

    19. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The trouble is that Microsoft don't like their users to have choice.

      I'd like to delve on that point: this is their business model's core. They are betting their farm on this.Their whole investor money is at stake there.

      This is what they've been doing for the last 30+ years.

      Can you spell "captive market"?

    20. Re: Where is the User choice in all of this by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      True, but it does render more closely than another office workers different version of MS Office ;-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    21. Re: Where is the User choice in all of this by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      No. Android does not have 99.9% of the Linux market. Thanks for playing!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    22. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > But your LO document doesn't show the same as your co-worker's MSOffice.

      Which coworker? They're all using Linux!

      And your LO document shows the same on your coworker's LO.

      No problemo!

    23. Re: Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't it possible to run Android on Linux (e.g. with a VM?)

      It seems most of us _want_ to keep using LO even if it's possible to run MS-Office (we're leaving Wine aside BTW).

      As I've posted a number of times already, some people even had the choice between an installed LO Writer and Word. And they chose LO because the interface was more constant (i.e., commands were easier to find).

      Now LO is offering a ribbon for people to use and learn why it is not better.

    24. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      But your LO document doesn't show the same as your co-worker's MSOffice.

      Right. That's my point. MSO is the outlier, the program that just isn't compatible with anyone else, and often not with itself. My answer was to the question of why the users shouldn't just pick and choose their Office suites.

      Unless you are going to dictate the platform as Windows only, and dictate MSO down to the version level, and dictate the printer used, you're going to be spending some time fixing documents that shouldn't need fixed.

      And that's a pretty good reason to use software available on multiple platforms. I'm not telling someone they can't use Linux at all because Microsoft doesn't have a solution at all, or that they shouldn't use a Mac because they will then waste time re-formatting other people's work.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    25. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      "no software at all for Linux."

      I'm assuming you mean desktop Linux, because Microsoft Office is available for Android and is free on that platform.

      What do you think I meant?

      Android has what, 99.9% of the Linux market?

      Well now! It also has 100 percent of the Android market! It's pretty much a stretch to call Android Linux, and toys are not included, except for the masochistic.

      Amazing the lengths some folks will go to just to make an argument. Someone is trying to make me talk about those cute little toys. But they're still toys and not production devices other than for trying to prove people wrong. Dunno if anyone is going to write a War and Peace type novel on their smartphone.

      BTW, my Samsung Galaxy Tab sits with a copy of Open Office on it. Mainly as a way to quickly look at something, because I'd never dream of creating work on it. Want some fun? Create a spreadsheet with calculations on a tablet.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    26. Re: Where is the User choice in all of this by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      As I've posted a number of times already, some people even had the choice between an installed LO Writer and Word. And they chose LO because the interface was more constant (i.e., commands were easier to find).

      Now LO is offering a ribbon for people to use and learn why it is not better.

      That last brings up another point for me. One of the odd side duties at work I ended up with was as computer fix-all for the suits. Microsoft Office allows customization of the interface. This isn't necessarily bad, but this customization came along with documents. So here we were, having a meeting, and some suit has a problem with his or her PowerPoint. So its up to me to get it running right.

      All this customization meant that if I didn't have a menu fallback, I had to figure out how they had their stuff configured, which made getting things running right always took longer.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    27. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      MSO is the outlier, the program that just isn't compatible with anyone else, and often not with itself.

      Indeed. Try opening an MS Word 95 document. When MS Office versions fail at reading the file, LibreOffice renders everything just fine.

      Saved my obviously far too long overdue master's thesis :-)

    28. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It's pretty much a stretch to call Android Linux

      Android is as much Linux as Red Hat or Ubuntu, they all use the same Linux (which is the kernel). Your confusion is because you don't understand that Linux operating systems destined for the desktop are not just 'Linux' (the kernel) but also contain hundreds of other pieces of software and should be refereed to by their brand name. Certainly Android contains different pieces of software, mainly the GUI, but most Android devices can also run GNU software.

    29. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by ConallB · · Score: 1

      I have worked many years on a help desk and can honestly say restricting the users to a single supportable choice makes sense only to the people on the helpdesk who limit their skills to a single product offering.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    30. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by ConallB · · Score: 1

      Office on the Mac is the same experience as office on the PC. I have used both extensively. LO is also fine though albeit lacking in functionality for more advanced users.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    31. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by ConallB · · Score: 1

      This is not true. Evidence - I run a team that supports both and the additional overhead is perhaps 20% more costly in terms of staff but is more than made up for in productivity as users prefer to work in their 'native' environment.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    32. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Because the cost of maintaining one system is far less than half the cost of maintaining 2 systems.

      They are actually running dozens of systems: financial systems, budget systems, accounting systems, rating systems, animal control systems, legal systems, and dozens of others. Some are on servers, some on desktops, some are legacy and require specific old versions of operating systems, some are shared, some standalone.

      You are a simpleton with no business experience if you think that 'one size fits all'.

    33. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      And productivity is lost again on the mixed working case.

      Also that's not evidence, that's an appeal to authority fallacy. I speak from experience myself but that is the exact same fallacy.

    34. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      > It's pretty much a stretch to call Android Linux

      Android is as much Linux as Red Hat or Ubuntu, they all use the same Linux (which is the kernel). Your confusion is because you don't understand that Linux operating systems destined for the desktop are not just 'Linux' (the kernel) but also contain hundreds of other pieces of software and should be refereed to by their brand name.

      I'm going to go run all my linux apps on my Android tablet. Afdter all It is exactly Linux. Who knew? Thank you for clearing up my confusion.

      It's all 1's and 0's, so all operating systems are the same.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    35. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by alexandru_preoteasa · · Score: 1

      This is the real-world common sense approach, good stuff...

    36. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by ConallB · · Score: 1

      It's only a fallacy if you are not an authority.

      --
      Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur.
    37. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. I've worked in mixed OS offices for the last 10 years without much issue. It's easy for an IT admin to say everything should be linux when you use the command line all day and aren't stuck having to use shitty open source UI's.

    38. Re:Where is the User choice in all of this by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Nope, it's a fallacy when the authoritative position doesn't exist at the time of a statement. Just like in this case. I have my experience and your statement, and the only difference I can see is that you have a lower UID.

  8. Translation: Show us the Euros by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We'll be willing to sign a long term Windows/Office/SQL Server licensing deal for X Euros, if you make an investment of (1.2 * X) Euros in our wonderful collaboration together.

  9. Cost to switch back grossly underestimated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    past estimates have put the price of Munich returning to Windows at more than €17m, not including software licensing and new infrastructure costs.

    How could they omit software licensing and infrstructure costs in the estimate? That is not a trivial amount of money by a long shot.

    1. Re:Cost to switch back grossly underestimated by bernywork · · Score: 1

      Because they'll be given it for free by Microsoft for them to switch back. MS would probably even give them free professional services / support for them to make the switch.

      --
      Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
    2. Re:Cost to switch back grossly underestimated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > MS would probably even give them free professional services / support for them to make the switch.

      Free Microsoft support is too expensive for its value.

      We get weird malfunctions every other day. Not all are solvable. Ever.

      IMHO, that is no "support".

  10. Who's bossing who? by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

    Well thank God Munich woke up! Believe it or not, I still like Windows. They do support certain applications that I can't get on Linux. (Its possible that I am simply not good enough yet to get them to work since I'm new at it.) But one thing Windows has to realize.. I - am - the - customer. Not the other way around!! I'm not your slave, and there are other operating systems around. Windows, you are replaceable! If I were you, I'd go back to giving the customer choices, flexibility, and privacy.

    1. Re:Who's bossing who? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Well thank God Munich woke up! Believe it or not, I still like Windows.

      Great, now that's the spirit! Let's have a good 'ole fashion German sing-a-long:

      Die Partei, die Partei,
      Die hat immer recht
      Genossen es bleibt dabei,
      Denn wer für das Recht kämpft,
      hat immer recht
      Gegen Lüge und Ausbeuterei.
      Wer das Leben beleidigt,
      Ist dumm oder schlecht,
      Wer die Menschheit verteidigt,
      Hat immer recht.
      Denn aus Lenin'schem Geist
      Wächst von Stalin geschweißt
      Die Partei, die Partei, die Partei.

      The Honeckers, Mielke, Schalck-Golodkowski and Windows . . . let's bring 'em all back!

      Let's make Germany Grape Again!

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:Who's bossing who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      For many years, I use Linux exclusively at home, and am forced to use Windows exclusively at work. I can't believe anybody in their right mind would prefer Windows after experiencing both.

      Windows is slow, buggy as hell, closed, and barely configurable. It is such a toy, such a joke, compared to rock solid Linux.

    3. Re:Who's bossing who? by Neuronwelder · · Score: 1

      Sorry I was not clear In my first sentence, I did not make clear that Munich does not like Windows. .. What I said about Windows is only for me, I like windows for some things. That is why I used the letter "I" instead of Munich.. I mistakenly assumed you would have attached my first sentence to the title of Munich rejecting Windows in the title that they posted.

    4. Re:Who's bossing who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you want to play games or buy most off the shelf hardware that either doesn't have linux drivers or used alpha/beta quality drivers.

      'Configurable'... you absolutely do not want workers to make changes to the OS or and part of the environment that would cause the help desk slow the speed at which they can deliver a solution. Changing the background is not a big deal, changing window managers is.

      Most people that advocate linux are small fry or never worked in a support role.

    5. Re:Who's bossing who? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Unless you want to play games

      Linux has lots of games. Besides, when you get older, games are no longer a significant part of your day. There's something new called "work".

      > or buy most off the shelf hardware that either doesn't have linux drivers or used alpha/beta quality drivers.

      And those would be? A keyboard, a webcam, a USB drive, a mouse?

      Mind you, mouses work better on Linux than on Windows. Sometimes a mouse will require a fixed USB port on Windows. Move it and it won't work anymore or will require driver re-installation. I find that ridiculous as I can connect my mouse on whichever port I want on Linux.

      USB drives, too, work flawlessly on Linux.

      And I would not mention beta quality drivers if I were you. Microsoft has just admitted they released a malfunctioning driver.

      > Changing the background is not a big deal, changing window managers is.

      I can't change the background on Windows 10! It says an administrative password is needed!

      Also I can't configure Cleartype; well, actually, I can configure it but making changes stick requires an admin password... how stupid is that?

      > Most people that advocate linux are small fry or never worked in a support role.

      Most people that advocate linux are users who see a productivity gain with it; support people are not there to be pleased, they're paid to solve problems.

      And Linux generates less issues.

  11. Ribbon is the new clippy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Hieroglyphics died out as a language, yet Microsoft chose it as their interface! LibreOffice is more production, Microsoft might be too stubborn to fix that awful ribbon, but that's how it is.

  12. Hieroglyphics died out by hackwrench · · Score: 1

    Just wait until you discover emoji.

  13. At least part of this is avalable via AutoFilter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    AutoFilter in Calc (Data->AutoFilter) has some of these features. It does not however do the named range auto bits, or make the table pretty, if you want this you have to do it manually(Data->Define Range & Format -> AutoFormat Styles ). Depending on your use case this will either be an irritation or a non issue, having not used Exell in a while I don't know what you are expecting though.

  14. Obvious solution: by julian67 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Obvious solution: switch to ReactOS. Or, if that seems too time consuming, just install Gentoo.

    1. Re:Obvious solution: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsense. The problem is that the end user does not know what they are actually doing.

      So, teach them by letting them install Linux from scratch.

      Once they have done that, the end users will really *know* what they are doing and help desk jobs will be the true joy Babbage intended it to be.

    2. Re:Obvious solution: by alexandru_preoteasa · · Score: 1

      Now I know that you're being facetious...
      But man, just imagining lusers trying to follow along with that project is giving me the hives, from a support and troubleshooting perspective.
      Also, y'know, your company going bankrupt because you can't onboard anyone is kind of annoying hahaha

  15. More Corruption by StormReaver · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is a glaring example of corruption at work. Microsoft bribes the council into shoveling millions back into Microsoft. I wish I could say something like, "how are these clowns not being thrown out of office?!" However, this is standard operating procedure in corrupt governments around the world.

    1. Re:More Corruption by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Oh please get a grip on yourself.

      This is a glaring example of personal preference taking over a group agenda nothing more. It's like I know that I won't be offered an Android phone anymore through my company when this one breaks because the 2IC to our current CTO is an Apple fan not a multiple choice fan, and our CTO is near retirement. People in power drive agendas without need for bribery or corruption. Heck sometimes you promote these people to those positions specifically to incite change.

      At the very worst it is a political move by favouring one vendor to get something in return (such as the new Microsoft headquarters in Munich).

      You people shouting bribery and corruption everytime something goes against your personal preference just looks childish. There's more going on in the world.

  16. Is that his job? by johannesg · · Score: 1

    Usually that job is to _advise_, but not to _undermine_ his bosses. Advising is something you do internally, not publicly.

    Look, I get he cares about this. But if his bosses tell him to make sure application or OS get installed, it's his job to make it so - and not to bitch about it in public. If he doesn't like his job, I'm sure there are plenty of other people who will do it without complaints.

    1. Re:Is that his job? by joppeknol · · Score: 2

      Usually that job is to _advise_, but not to _undermine_ his bosses. Advising is something you do internally, not publicly.

      Look, I get he cares about this. But if his bosses tell him to make sure application or OS get installed, it's his job to make it so - and not to bitch about it in public. If he doesn't like his job, I'm sure there are plenty of other people who will do it without complaints.

      His bosses are the tax-paying citizens of Munich. If he has the idea that the process by which the os was chosen is wrong, he almost has an obligation to express his opinion.

      There are reasons why certain decision-making is private, but especially in a public organisation, there shouldn't be too many. I don't see why a decision on windows vs linux shouldn't be transparent for everyone.

    2. Re:Is that his job? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Usually that job is to _advise_, but not to _undermine_ his bosses. Advising is something you do internally, not publicly.

      His job is basically over.

      He will most likely not be the person supervising the switch to Windows.

      Giving support to the vivisection of what was his baby will probably not appeal to him much either.

      So he's in a position he can say anything he likes. And since this was a rather high profile project, it will get the press.

  17. The real reason by rodia · · Score: 2

    MS made a deal with Munich's mayors office to move its german headquarters to Munich. Wonder what the other side of that deal was...

  18. Amiga forever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    switch to Amiga OS .

  19. Alternative explanation by Mouldy · · Score: 1

    1. IT Lead originally failed to understand the needs of the users of such system.
    2. IT Lead implements alternative to MS software that doesn't meet the needs of the users
    3. Users say "this doesn't do what we want, lets go back to how it was"
    4. IT Lead blames shift back to MS software on the users; "System fails [were] due to new bureaucratic procedure"

    Ie, IT Lead implemented something the users didn't need or want and is blaming the users for that.

    It might be an unpopular opinion on a tech site; but people are people and sometimes, tech people get things wrong too. It's very possible the IT lead here just did a bad job.

    1. Re: Alternative explanation by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Thanks for your alternative facts. It is always helpful to see a detailed list of how things might have happened in an alternative reality!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    2. Re:Alternative explanation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This wasn't a decision taken overnight by an overenthousiastic nerd. How small do you think München is? It's a city of 1.5 million people. The decision to go through with it altogether took several years and depended on the result of pilot projects.

  20. Another Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "needlessly convoluted" == "not what I'm used to on Windows with it's single-window model".

    GIMP is, for people new to such higher-tier (ie beyond MS Paint-type) graphics manipulation programs, EASIER to learn. Right click brings up a menu that is pretty much what you need to do in the image window. And if you have two monitors, it's VERY easy to place the tools off on the second monitor where they won't get in the way of the image.

    GIMP came from UNIX land where window mangers did what the name said. Adobe's products came from Windows where the "windows manager" was not the window manager but the task manager. And so each task was intended to have its own single window so the "window" task manager could manage that task.

    1. Re:Another Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I kind of like ACD Canvas, but that's probably because it's the first graphics software I used in anger (on a Mac, in SE days, when it was still by Deneba Software); it pulls most of the Adobe Suite's functionality (a little light on the image tools, but good enough)+GIS into a unified package and UI. Unfortunately, the current version is militantly Windows - won't run under Wine for me - and it's about the only important thing I still use that won't. Otherwise, LO works fine in both Windows and Linux, which covers pretty much everything else I need to do for work on a regular basis and is more compatible with MS Office (historical formats) than MS Office.

      Have tried GIMP. It's quite powerful, but still a little rough in the UI for someone brought up on higher-level commercial products (Adobe Suite, ACD Canvas, Corel Suite). Krita's interesting. Both are for images only; the big commercial products either provide themselves or are part of a suite that provides vector and other tools as well as image editing. What you pay for from Adobe and the other serious commercial products is the professional support aspect: industry-standard workflow and a wide variety of tools, though not necessarily ease of use. For business use, paying for it by the hour or the month is not a problem as long as the work brings in enough to cover the cost. And you don't have to figure depreciation on something that's rented. Finally, the non-Adobe commercial options all update at least annually for at least $100 a pop, so the net cost works out about the same - though of course you *can* skip updates if they don't provide significant improvements.

  21. It's freak'n laziness!!! by martinfb · · Score: 1

    It is the fucking laziness that people have, brought on by general corporate subliminal brainwashing propaganda!

    Open source projects like Linux and LibreOffice do not have heavy-handed, highly engineered social marketing to brainwash folks into their products.
    They just have great, solid, supported products built truly By The People, For The People.

    Yet, most humans are TOO fucking lazy to engage their brains of their OWN fruition and make the small effort to learn these easy products, andwould rather just keep plodding along with the rest of the (lemmings)!

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
    1. Re:It's freak'n laziness!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > By The People, For The People

      Easy, there Hancock. Take another hit of Jet, why don't 'cha...

  22. This is just business... and Linux sucks at it by gosand · · Score: 1

    And that is how it should be.
    Because businesses will come and go (even Microsoft), but the truly innovative and useful things are sustainable.

    It is like the monk walking with his teacher, and they see a rabbit being chased by a fox.
    The student says "That poor rabbit will get eaten".
    The teacher asks "Why do you think so?"
    "Because the fox is much faster, stronger, and more cunning".
    The teacher says "But the rabbit will elude him".
    "Why is that teacher?"
    "Because the fox is running for his dinner, but the rabbit is running for his life"

    --

    My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.

    1. Re:This is just business... and Linux sucks at it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My dog (he's a west highland terrier) chases rabbits. Once in a while he'll catch one. When he does, he'll grab the poor little guy by the neck and shake the living shit out of him. GAME OVER.

      For the record, there's linux aplenty doing "business" things and the internet literally would not work without it. It's just not all that good at the whole desktop thing. If things like KDE were developed be people who actually had a fucking clue about how the world works (as opposed to fixing things that were never broken because it suits their whims, and then making one retarded decision after another for years and years) then things would be different, but alas, they're not.

  23. "Technical reasons" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We do not see pressing technical reasons to switch to MS and MS Office"

    Technical is never the reason that people switch to Windows. It's always politics and shady backroom deals.